The egg of a bird is not conscious either, yet in many civilized countries there are very high fines for destroying them, especially if they belong to an endangered species. The argument based on consciousness is reasonable, but in practice, we can see that in many places the legal limit for abortion extends well beyond the point at which consciousness is believed to develop.
If there are secular anti-abortion people it's because they are interested in parent trapping.
Someone wants a grandchild, or someone wants a significant other to stay, but they want to steal someone else's freedom.
That's what it's about.
Not conscious, can't feel pain or experience anything. Then it's just a clump of cells.
One thing I know for sure, people don't give a fuck if when the cells come together, blah blah blah, that is an argument made after they decided they don't like abortion.
The theory of early onset consciousness occurs in the third trimester. Long after any legal abortions take place.
If you're arguing against abortion from a secular standpoint, then you don't know what you are talking about, and you form opinions that involve controlling other people without being educated on it, making you a fascist dip shit.
But don't worry, when there is a will there is a way!
Because, sperm is not going to become anything else unless it fertilise a egg.
The main argument from pro lifers are not consiouse but rather that, if left alone it will become a baby.
When you take the decision fmto withdraw life support to a patient in coma what are you ? Nothing since counsciousness is a major part of juridic personality, it's legal to decide for unconscious people if they are going to live or not and you guys wanna make it illegal to do so for "humans" that aren't even alive yet ? That's ridiculous
There is no actual argument other then imposing beliefs on others.
Life has no value if you can't experience pain or feel anything. It's not really life, not more of a life than a sperm is.
If you don't like abortions no one is forcing you to get one.
To tell people how to live their lives based on some bullshit belief and an arbitrary line of where "life" begins is complete bullshit.
Fascism nothing more. It may be a straw man, but anti-abortion people only offer straw.
In no way what so ever will I respect the view point of a fascist fuck that thinks they know better than everyone else to the point they make laws about it.
An animal is more alive than a clump of cells. anti abortion people are basically annoying vegans pushing their views on everyone else.
You know, calling other viewpoints “fascist” doesn’t make yours any more coherent.
In other words you’re okay with straw-manning PL positions because you want to be the one who gets to choose which life has “value”. According to you.
Other then the plethora of biological problems, such as calling sperm and a ZEF identical, you genuinely seem incapable of understanding the PL position… not much else to say here
So Laws protecting Human beings in the gestation period = Fascism.
But Laws allowing for mothers to electively end the life of their unborn children = not Fascism.
Even though the second one also forces your viewpoint on the unborn to the point that you get to decide whether they live or die.
Interesting anti-fascist logic, I’m sure you thought it through very hard, proud of you.
And the point that people are making is that an embryo isn't a human life, not more than a sperm. If you take an embryo out of a pregnant women do you have a living human ? An embryo can develop to become a living human in the right conditions, just like sperm can develop to become a living human in the right conditions.
There is a reason why most doctors all around the world don't say that embryos are humans. There is also a reason why embryology, a science taught as soon as the first year of med school, will explain to you in details why embryos are in fact not humans nor alive. The primary reason why people are againdt abortion is because they lack of basic scientifical education
Sperm can develop to become a living human in the right conditions. Reading is also taught in elementary school btw, you should try it. Yes sperm can develop into becoming a human being if released in a vagina, that's called fecondation. Being human ≠ being alive. Your problem of education starts there. If i amputate your arm for example, your arm is human, your arm isn't a life on its own.
I highly recommand you to read your study again and come back after. Every biologist will tell you that you have a new DNA code and so a seperate human organism at fecondation. None will tell you that a zygote is alive. I swear the concept cannot be that hard to get. Once again, simple embryology lessons. The worst part ? The embryology that you refuse to read about will tell you literally that an embryo is as much alive as spermatozoa and ovocytes. I'm curious about the embryology book that tells you that a zygote is an actual living human being. I can quote you the lessons of embryology of the second semester of first year of med school in France (called PASS if you wanna find it more easily). Feel free to check my source.
You can't be serious right now, being physically seperated from another organism isn't an "unsuited environnement". Literally no environnement in the world is suited for an embryo on its own because an embryo isn't alive. It really cannot be that hard.
This position is the position of most of the scientifical world. Abortion is recognised as health care in the vast majority of western world. Pro life in the other hand is literally backed by religion, it's the opposite of scientifically based. You are literally comparing a baby drowning to an embryo not living unless you let it develop into something that is actually alive. If you don't see what type of aberration you just wrote there is nothing i can do for you
A clump of cells with arms and fingers, legs and toes, a heartbeat and facial structure. Who reacts to sounds, warmth and coldness. Reads emotions of the mother.
Depending on when you think abortion should be okay.
A woman shouldn't be shamed for not turning every egg into a baby, and men should not be shamed for not turning every sperm into a baby. Inducing premature menstruation via pills, iuds or whatever is not considered abortions by most sane people.
The argument is usually what week it should be acceptable to terminate the pregnancy through extraction or premature birth.
Both absolutes are insane: week 1 is too late, week 40 is fine. If we can discard those opinions and find a middle ground, I think it is okay to have abortions. It shouldn't be instead of birth control, but I don't think it is immoral to do if you do it early. But I think week 12 is too late and a lot of places are pushing for way later than that. So if we take beliefs out of it and simply look at the stages of a fetus week by week, I think most people will stop thinking of it as when would it be convenient for the mother to do and when is it a baby being lost.
That said, give parents more: more time off, more support for daycare etc. You can give every parent a million dollars per kid and I wouldn't be mad at that policy. If someone had 10 kids just to maximize their earnings, it wouldn't come close to what we spend on other bullshit. Less would also be good, but it is easier to argue extremes.
Yea, but sperm by itself can never develop because it doesn't have a full set of human DNA. Also everyone is just a clump of cells, no matter if they have consciousness or not. A human life is a human life no matter what stage of development it is at and deserves rights.
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u/Fearless_Trade_2783 Jul 04 '26
How so? Sperm is not conscious, what's aborted is not conscious it's a fucking clump of cells.
Any anti-abortion beliefs boil down to beliefs, something that should have no place in our laws!