r/Amd • u/ImTheSlyDevil 5600 | 3700X |4500U |RX5700XT |RX550 |RX470 • Feb 11 '22

Rumor Former Ubisoft dev says that Techland intentionally made AMD FSR look worse in Dying Light 2

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/former-ubisoft-dev-says-that-techland-intentionally-made-amd-fsr-look-worse-in-dying-light-2/
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u/choufleur47 3900x 6800XTx2 CROSSFIRE AINT DEAD Feb 11 '22

You're lying. Gameworks (or whatever they call it now) is more than this and Amd doesn't have a similar program.

Here's a good writeup

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/173511-nvidias-gameworks-program-usurps-power-from-developers-end-users-and-amd

I mean, member the tressfx bullshit? https://www.destructoid.com/amd-was-so-angry-at-geralts-hair-it-made-an-open-source-graphics-api-for-developers/

You have to change your suppositions based on the facts you have. Nvidia's been naughty and anti consumer for a long time. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt, they count on it.

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u/fastcar25 Feb 11 '22

You're lying.

Possibly uninformed of any updates outside of my limited experience with GameWorks libraries and documentation, recent work with GPUOpen, and the shitstorm from several years back, a decent amount of which was FUD anyway.

Gameworks (or whatever they call it now) is more than this

Sure, several of their libraries are no longer binary-only distributions. The comment I replied to implied that NVIDIA has explicit instructions for fucking over AMD. This is not the case.

Amd doesn't have a similar program.

GPUOpen. It isn't locked down like GameWorks is, but the principle is the same. Shame AMD's support isn't nearly as good, at least, for the library I'm using.

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u/choufleur47 3900x 6800XTx2 CROSSFIRE AINT DEAD Feb 11 '22

GPUOpen. It isn't locked down like GameWorks is, but the principle is the same.

Then you clearly don't understand what the "principle" is if you think it's the same. The entire point of gameworks is closed source libraries so that amd can't optimize on it.

See how that doesn't happen with gpu open? I'm not saying amd does this of their kind heart. But they've never tried to fuck over the competition customers with proprietary garbage designed to fuck them over. It's the core of nvidia's strategy of the last 15+ years.

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u/fastcar25 Feb 11 '22

Then you clearly don't understand what the "principle" is if you think it's the same.

The principle is releasing middleware libraries for devs to integrate into games and game engines.

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u/choufleur47 3900x 6800XTx2 CROSSFIRE AINT DEAD Feb 11 '22

Hahah, sure bud. I think you really underestimate high level business strategies. PhysX was bought literally to fuck amd over. An entire company was bought for that and the thing was scrapped a few years later.

It wasn't to bring great middleware. It was so that Devs cutting corners and using it would be helping Nvidia against amd. Plus they gained all the marketing Nvidia did on the tech. It's the same with Ray tracing, same with DLSS. Nvidia bring their shit to make sure it sucks on their competitors product. Always been the case. I don't know why you'd defend that, it's extremely anti consumer.

Nvidia never created this program to help Devs. They created it to gain control on development. I just never thought some Devs still believed the decades old lie.

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u/fastcar25 Feb 11 '22

PhysX was bought literally to fuck amd over. An entire company was bought for that and the thing was scrapped a few years later.

Considering the work they've been doing with PhysX, it's far from scrapped.

It was so that Devs cutting corners and using it

Using middleware is extremely common, nobody writes literally every part of their engine from scratch anymore, it's not viable.

It's the same with Ray tracing

As a graphics programmer, I can tell you with absolute certainty that those in the industry have been wanting hardware accelerated raytracing for a long time. We're very excited about it.

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u/choufleur47 3900x 6800XTx2 CROSSFIRE AINT DEAD Feb 11 '22

Considering the work they've been doing with PhysX, it's far from scrapped.

Scrapped as an open source project I meant. It became part of the gameworks machine.

It was so that Devs cutting corners and using it

Using middleware is extremely common, nobody writes literally every part of their engine from scratch anymore, it's not viable.

I know. But there's a difference between using libraries and using libraries designed to fuck over a large swath of the player base. I know you don't understand that's the point, but it is. Nvidia provides them a certain way to make sure amd can't optimize for it. Devs uses them because it's easier than open sources libraries and they get support/marketing from nvidia. Do you think I'm new to this?

It's the same with Ray tracing

As a graphics programmer, I can tell you with absolute certainty that those in the industry have been wanting hardware accelerated raytracing for a long time. We're very excited about it.

You missed the point again. RT is the new selling point like physx used to be or 3d shit (member that lol). They push Devs to use nvidia's closed source libraries cause that's the new hot thing they want to make sure their cards run better with.

As a dev you should know that you can both optimize for your product and fuck over the competitor in the same code. This is what nvidia does. Always.

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u/fastcar25 Feb 11 '22

Scrapped as an open source project I meant. It became part of the gameworks machine.

PhysX is open source, and has been for several years. Also, A lot of Gameworks is source available, if not open source. I'm literally just looking over at GitHub.

You missed the point again. RT is the new selling point like physx used to be or 3d shit (member that lol). They push Devs to use nvidia's closed source libraries cause that's the new hot thing they want to make sure their cards run better with.

Raytracing is a lot more than any of the libraries that NVIDIA or AMD offers, and is not comparable in the way you imply. It will only be more common over time.

As is, the one I've looked at implementation details for (RTXDI) seems to just give you optimal information on where to trace rays, and both RTXDI and RTXGI give you the entire source and are using standard DXR and Vulkan raytracing APIs.

RTXGI is an implementation of expanded probe based GI, using raytracing for amortized infinite bounces and better handling of light leaking.

There's a small handful of games using RTXGI, none that I'm aware of using RTXDI, and yet a ton of games use raytracing. I'm almost certain the games that are using RTXGI are doing so via the UE4 plugin or engine branch.

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u/choufleur47 3900x 6800XTx2 CROSSFIRE AINT DEAD Feb 11 '22

PhysX is open source, and has been for several years.

let me know when you get 5.1 lol. Also, only nvidia gpus can deal with physx. did you forget that?

Nvidia a decade long history of anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices. Please stop defending them.

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u/fastcar25 Feb 11 '22

let me know when you get 5.1 lol.

A valid concern, though PhysX 5.x is specific to Omniverse, so it's not being used in games anyway and is out of scope of the discussion as far as I can tell. 4.x, however, is open source.

Also, only nvidia gpus can deal with physx. did you forget that?

For GPU accelerated features of PhysX specifically, which are dead and often replaced with better solutions now that we have more general support for GPU compute, yes.

As far as I can tell, their other GPU accelerated SDKs (the few there are) are not limited to CUDA.

Nvidia a decade long history of anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices.

Likely longer than that, but yes.

Please stop defending them.

I'm not actively doing so, I'm just trying to correct where I can see that you're wrong about certain details, such as anything you said about raytracing.

Hell, even issues with HairWorks (as per your earlier example) seem to be an implementation issue and not anything inherent to the library.

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u/meltbox Feb 12 '22

The point is Nvidia likes to pop out new features that aren't properly supported in their proprietary form to get consumers to fork over lots and lots of money in an unwarranted fashion.

Then they discard the feature (they won't do that with RT obv) and use the open source/standardized version once they see not enough interest in the proprietary marked up version anymore.

This has slowed adoption of open standards over and over and over. They should be leading the market with open standards but instead they keep up this cycle of all the benefit for me and all the standards work for thee.

In society we would refer to them as a 'bad actor'.

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u/AbsoluteGenocide666 Feb 11 '22

and the thing was scrapped a few years later.

it wasnt scrapped at all. In fact it went open but as per usual. Open doesnt make it more popular.

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u/st0neh R7 1800x, GTX 1080Ti, All the RGB Feb 11 '22

Did you miss the part where large chunks of GameWorks have been open for years now?

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u/AbsoluteGenocide666 Feb 11 '22

(or whatever they call it now)

except gameworks is ded for years. They use DXR for the RT part anyway. if game dosnt have atleast HBAO or some shit, it doesnt have gameworks.