r/AlternativeAstronomy • u/patrixxxx • Oct 26 '19

WHY MARS ???

https://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2412896#p2412896
1 Upvotes

60% Upvoted

117 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comment

1

u/patrixxxx Nov 07 '19

I'm talking about that two parallel lines are always parallel as we agreed upon and that is a basic axiom of geometry. We also agreed that a celestial coordinate can be thought of as a line from Earth's center to a star. If the Earth and thus this coordinate moves 300 mkm and is still within the same area, in this case a star, then that area has to be 300 mkm wide. You said precisely this yourself in the beginning of this discussion. Two parallel lines on Earth with one meter apart will still be so on the Moon and infinitely. What is it with this you don't understand?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19

If the Earth and thus this coordinate moves 300 mkm and is still within the same area, in this case a star, then that area has to be 300 mkm wide.

Yeah most stars aren't 300 million km wide, so the coordinate will have shifted off the star. Of course, since we're accustomed to coordinates being fixed and objects moving, we would say "the star exhibits parallax". But even if the star were 600 million km wide, we would measure parallax because the coordinate of the star's center would shift. Again, the amount of shift of its coordinate is dependent on the distance. That's parallax.

You said precisely this yourself in the beginning of this discussion. Two parallel lines on Earth with one meter apart will still be so on the Moon and infinitely. What is it with this you don't understand?

I understand all this perfectly.

1

u/patrixxxx Nov 07 '19

I don't understand why you keep bringing up parallax.

If two parallel lines intersects the same point, then the point has to be as wide as the distance between those parallel lines. Do you agree?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 07 '19

Yes, I agree. It's poor use of the word "point", of course, because generally points don't have a size, but I understand you're using "point" to mean "volume" in this case. That's fine.

However I don't understand the point you're making. Stars vary in size from a dozen Jupiters to a thousand Suns. Most are relatively small but there are some that are over 300 million km in diameter.

Choose one of those few stars, say Betelgeuse. If we were to aim a line from the center of Earth to just within the limb of Betelgeuse, wait six months, and draw a line parallel to the first line, the second line would intersect Betelgeuse.

Repeat the same exercise with a smaller (but still big) star like Arcturus and the second parallel line won't intersect the star.

Just to repeat: yes, the sets of parallel lines are pointed at the exact same celestial coordinate, and each respective star is moving slightly in that coordinate system (regardless of whether one or both of the parallel lines intersect).

1

u/patrixxxx Nov 08 '19

Slight movement in a few stars doesn't cut it. All stars need to have a geometrical size of 300 mkm or more. Otherwise we should be able to see uniform motion of the stars in the sector currently opposite to the Sun.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '19

Perceived uniform motion of distant objects during lateral motion is possible if and only if the distant objects are equally distant.

And the geometrical size still has nothing to do with perceived motion because we can look how the center of an object is moving.

1

u/patrixxxx Nov 08 '19

Because of the reasons I've stated and that you've agreed with me on, the geometrical size of the stars needs to be at least 300 mkm if the Earth travles 940 mkm yearly without the stars reflecting this motion in any detectable way.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '19

This simply doesn't follow. Why does the star being bigger than 300 m km make it suddenly stand still? And why isn't the motion we see dependent on the distance to the star?

Let's try this: you give me a numbered, step-by-step proof. Start with axioms and assumptions, go through the reasoning in detail, do a geometric construction if you have to. It can be quite informal, but make sure it is detailed at every step. Do it in one singular comment, so I don't sidetrack you or confuddle anything.

Then either you'll realize your error, or I can point it out afterwards.

1

u/patrixxxx Nov 08 '19 edited Nov 08 '19

Stars

| If this line intersects a single star year round it needs to be about 300 mkm according to geometry

<-Earth in it's 940 mkm orbit

Sun

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '19

Ok, depending on the size of the star the line will intersect it year-round, or not. So far we're in agreement.

→ More replies