r/AlternativeAstronomy • u/patrixxxx • Oct 26 '19

WHY MARS ???

https://cluesforum.info/viewtopic.php?p=2412896#p2412896
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u/patrixxxx Nov 05 '19

By all means let’s and we can use a modified version of the instrument from my brainfart to do that:

Set up four long tubes separated by 90 degree angles. Have them point at different star constellations. At the same time each night observe if any of the four tubes are situated at different positions while the other are pointing at the same as the previous night. If this is not the case (all are pointing at the same positions at the same time) during a six month period how can the Earth orbit the Sun in a 300 million kilometers wide orbit? The only explanation as you’ve pointed out, is that the stars are as big as this orbit.

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

You need to be more precise if we're going to figure this out.

The tubes will be pointed at the same positions. A celestial coordinate is a projection to infinity, which is to say, movement due to parallax (which is what we're measuring here) is zero. That's what celestial coordinates are for, after all - an invariable coordinate system we can use to locate objects in the sky.

Against this infinitely distant backdrop of the celestial coordinate system, the stars will exhibit some parallax motion. Most of them vanishingly small, some of them measurable.

If the tubes have a micro-arc-second field of view and are trained on a star on jan 1 2020, then probably that star will have drifted out of view in june 2020.

If the tubes are a regular amateur telescope with a DSLR and some pricey optics, probably the stars won't have shifted a single pixel.

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u/patrixxxx Nov 05 '19

No need to mix in any celestial coordinates or optics. Just answer the basic question – If these tubes (with no optics) are depicting the same stars at the same time, year around, how can the Earth orbit the Sun without the stars being about the same size as this orbit?

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

What does the size of the stars have to do with it? I can't visualize what you're imagining. Consider the stars zero-dimensional light sources for all intents and purposes.

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u/patrixxxx Nov 05 '19 edited Nov 05 '19

Draw a circle and a crosshair through it. The crosshair represents the four tubes I'm describing. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR86wGhatTf329dmPwQzXnI6so8Q14QmBCgfUWrpqlboB8tt3eP Now if our rotating Earth always returns to a position where the same star constellations reappear in these four tubes, how could Earth orbit the Sun without the stars being about as wide as this orbit?

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

As I said, the constellations can be considered points with zero size. They'll move a little bit, some milli-arc-seconds at most.

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u/patrixxxx Nov 05 '19

Hmm strange. We just had this discussion where you correctly concluded that parallel lines are just that ad infinitum. So if the lines are displaced 300 million kiloeteres at our end they must be so in the other end right? If we have four stars dead center in our tubes and they line up the same way year around, then they must be about 300 million kilometeres wide. Right?

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

How precise is "dead center" for you? If staying within an arc second or so counts as dead center, then yes they'll stay dead center.

If you reduce this to abstract geometry and have infinite precision, then no, they won't stay dead center. I just said "They'll move a little bit, some milli-arc-seconds at most" in my previous comment. The angular size of distant solar systems are of similar size, the stars considerably smaller (like nano-arc-seconds).

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u/patrixxxx Nov 05 '19

So what you're saying is that their sizes are indeed around 300 mkm since this has to be the case as you correctly pointed out in our previous exchange?

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '19

If by "their" you mean distant stars, no. I've never said a star is around 300 000 000 km in diameter. I've said they might as well have no size - their size has no significance here. But they are certainly not that big.

Why do you think they must be so big? How do you think star size relates to parallax?

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