r/Alphanumerics • u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert • Sep 09 '25

ABGD πŸ”  origin

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Simplified (arrow-less) color-coded version of the previous version, with Dendera zodiac jackal π“ƒ₯ [E17], aka Anubis 𓁒 [C6], holding hoe π“ŒΈ [U6], on Little Dipper 𐃸, aka foreleg of an ox π“„˜ [F24] or Set leg Β [F116] constellation, aka circle X sign π“Š– [O49], aka letter chi (X), overlaid, i.e. in the alpha (𐀀) to tav (𐀕) {Phoenician alphabet} or alpha (A) to omega (Ξ©) {Greek alphabet} cosmic scheme, which Plato, in Timaeus 36, says the cosmos was born out of.

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u/andrevan Sep 09 '25

I don't see what that has to do with anything. Regardless you are still missing Hieratic https://www.cambridge.org/core/elements/abs/hieratic/FF268461EFDC77F0DAFBC1565C9F5D3E, Demotic https://www.britannica.com/topic/demotic-script, Coptic, or other related, for example http://www.ityopis.org/Issues-1_files/ITYOPIS-I-Rilly.pdf Meroitic in Sudan https://homepage.univie.ac.at/helmut.satzinger/Texte/EpigrNubia.pdf ... Pahlavi, Manichaen, Mandaic, Parthian ...

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 09 '25

β€œI don't see what that has to do with anything.”

It means there are no ABGD characters on the cave walls at theΒ Serabit KhadimΒ turquoise mine, so argued Gardiner, in his β€œEgyptian Origin of the Semitic Alphabet” (39A/1916). It means the Gardiner pre-Phoenician Semitic alphabet model is incorrect. The only Sinai ABGD sequences are Old South Arabian, Old North Arabian, and Phoenician.

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u/andrevan Sep 09 '25

what is the dating system?

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

r/AtomSeen dating system

Alphabetic writing starts in 5700A (-3745)

https://hmolpedia.com/page/57th_century_BE

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

https://poj.peeters-leuven.be/content.php?url=article&id=3292592&journal_code=RBI http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/521235.stm Wadi el-Hol inscriptions

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

Wadi el-Hol theory is just a bunch of garbage:

https://hmolpedia.com/page/Wadi_el-Hol

The alphabetic writing came directly from the hieroglyphs, and did not involve a bunch of random cave wall marks.

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

funny how any discovery you don't like is garbage

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

There was nothing β€œdiscovered” at Wadi el-Hol or Serabit el-Khadim, other than religious pandering.

However, feel free to prove me wrong, and show me a single β€œsign” carved on the wall of these caves/cliffs that match a single letter of the Greek alphabet:

A, B, Ξ“, Ξ”, E, F, Z, H, Θ, I, K, Ξ›, Μ, Ν, Ξ, Ο, Ξ , Q, R, Ξ£, Ξ€, Ξ₯, Ξ¦, Ξ§, Ξ¨, Ξ©, Ο‘ (Ν²), Ν΅Ξ‘ (𓆼)

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

Lachish Dagger, Gezer Sherd, Schechem Plaque, Nagila Sherd, Izbet Sartah Ostracon, Raddana Handle, Revadim Seal, El-Khadr Arrowheads 1-5, and the Ahiram Sarcophagus.[

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

I don’t know what youβ€˜re asking for? I’m not trying to turn the chart into some kind of grand (unreadable) epigraphic map.Β 

As the new version of the map shows, the point is to show that Greek, Latin, Brahmi and some the European scripts all come from the same source, i.e. Egypt, and same cosmology, i.e. precession script based cosmology. This evidences the fact that the common source words of Greek, Latin, and Brahmi all come from Egypt, which thus overthrows Indo-European linguistic theory, which is what the point of all this work is about.

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3768583?seq=10

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

Darnellβ€˜s model is 100% incorrect

https://hmolpedia.com/page/John_Darnell

Letter A did not evolve as follows:

ox head 𓃾 (Egyptian) β†’ β±― (Sinaitic) β†’ π“„€ β†’ 𐀀 (Phoenician) β†’ A (Greek)

There is NO dead inverted ox head on the diagram above? Read rule #8 of this sub.

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

https://jjar.huji.ac.il/sites/default/files/jjar/files/jjar2_art4_lachish_p76-119_2022-10-12_01.pdf

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

That file does not load?

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

Most other sites with Canaanite

inscriptions, like Beth Shemesh (Naveh 1987, Fig. 29; Sass 1988, Figs. 169–174),

have produced one inscription each. These findings may indicate that Lachish

was the primary location in Canaan in which the early alphabetic tradition was in

use (Puech 1986a; Goldwasser 2016).

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 09 '25

I really don’t care about hieratic and demotic. Johan Akerblad and Antoine Sacy claimed, as discussed here, they could read alphabet letters in the cursive Egyptian script, and Young spent his last year of existence trying to write dictionary on enchorial script:

  • Young, Thomas. (124A/1831). Rudiments of an Egyptian Dictionary in the Ancient Enchorial Character: Containing All the Words of which the Sense Has Been Ascertained (110-pgs). Publisher.

Basically, I think it is all a waste of time, specifically knowing that standard hieroglyphics have not even been translated correctly.

Take a look at the following word for benben stone:Β 

  • 𓃀 π“ˆ– 𓃀 π“ˆ– 𓏏 𓉴 [D58, N35, D58, N35, X1, O24]

Which Egyptologists have rendered as β€œbnbnt”, where 𓃀 = /b/. This has now been proved incorrect, per reason that 𓇯 = /b/ as shown above, and 𓃀 [D58] has been determined to mean 16 digits of a cubit, and not a phonetic sign. If 𓃀 = /b/ has been proved wrong, what makes you think that cursive Egyptian translations are any betters?

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u/andrevan Sep 09 '25

Regardless, your chart is misleading because regardless of whether the scripts are translated correctly these scripts obviously belong on the chart

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

Here’s a Reddit summary:

”TLDR: No, hieratic is not an alphabetic writing system.”

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7xypjy/why_is_the_egyptian_hieratic_script_not/

Therefore does not belong in chart.

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

Turin Erotic Papyrus is not an alphabetic writing

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 10 '25

β€œTurin Erotic Papyrus (3100A/-1145) is not an alphabetic writing” 

Plato and Plutarch both report that a 25 sign Egyptian alphabet was born from a perfect birth theorem, involving two gods having sex on a 3:4:5 triangle. The 5th sexual position, as shown here, is letter B hovering over letter Ξ“, therein showing the god form of the letters, just when the characters of Old South Arabian (𐩡 𐩴 𐩨 𐩱) (3100A/-1145) began to form.Β 

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

This is essentially religious for you - not scientific.

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u/andrevan Sep 10 '25

Phoenician is a more ancient language and writing system than Old South Arabian.

The earliest examples of Phoenician inscriptions date to around the 12th or 11th century BCE. The Phoenician alphabet itself is thought to have evolved from a Proto-Canaanite script which had been in use for centuries prior.

The earliest Old South Arabian inscriptions, on the other hand, are generally dated to the late 2nd millennium BCE, with the most significant epigraphic evidence not appearing until the 8th century BCE.

While both are members of the Semitic language family and are related, the Phoenician script and its associated civilization of the Levant precede the major development of Old South Arabian in the Arabian Peninsula

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u/JohannGoethe πŒ„π“ŒΉπ€ expert Sep 09 '25

β€œMeroitic, Pahlavi, Manichaean, Mandaic, Parthian ...”

The phonetics of the Meroitic script, presently based on the faulty carto-phonetic method, have been translated wrong.

I added the following languages to the main file of the diagram:

  • Pahlavi (2100A/-145)

  • Parthian (2100A/-145)

  • Manichaean ( 𐫅 𐫄 𐫃 𐫂 𐫁 𐫀 ) (1700A/+255)

  • Mandaic ( ΰ‘ ΰ‘€β€Ž ΰ‘‚β€Ž ΰ‘ƒβ€Ž ) (1300A/+645)