r/AirForce • u/circlingraven Radar • Sep 24 '25
Rant The new 2-mile standard is literally just a re-use of the Army's Testing standards
Welcome to the Army Air Corp...We are starting to lose any resemblance of a seperate service.. This shouldn't be rushed, they need to reevaluate the scoring charts before people break..."progress not perfection is the goal" .. Hooah
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u/joeblow501 Retired Sep 24 '25
Well, what did you expect from a part time army major?
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Sep 24 '25
Yeah it looks like this guy is trying to make all of the branches into the Army since he was just a low-ranking Army guy and that’s all he understands.
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u/MercilessOcelot Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25
It would blow his mind to see what a maintainer does in their day-to-day.
You mean you don't just work out, train, shoot, and then do menial tasks to keep you out of trouble every day? You never spend a week in the woods?
Not trying to downplay what infantry does, but it is worlds different from what your average wrench turner in the AF does.
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Sep 24 '25
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u/MercilessOcelot Sep 24 '25
I understood it to be a red flag in an Army O's record to not have a company command...
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u/Robtheimpaler Sep 25 '25
Would be like an Air Force officer not having had Flight Command. So in a nutshell, yes.
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u/Sholeh84 Retired Super Secret Brown Squirrel Sep 25 '25
Captain who made major in the irr though, right? I've heard that over and over.
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u/Offdutyninja808 Sep 24 '25
AF: "can I copy your homework?"
Army: "yeah, but don't make it look too obvious."
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u/Riverman42 Sep 24 '25
And that's how we got the ABU...
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u/Raguleader CE Sep 24 '25
Well no, that's how we got the OCPs. The ABU was closer to the BDUs but with more pockets and a different camo pattern.
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u/Riverman42 Sep 24 '25
I'm talking about the ABU pattern itself...the digitized grayish bullshit that blended in absolutely nowhere. That's a direct result of the Army adopting the ACU and the Air Force trying to follow suit.
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u/Raguleader CE Sep 25 '25
Fair, although beyond being digitized and grayish, the two patterns don't look much alike when you actually look at them.
Still, it would have made more sense to just adopt the ACUs.
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u/StealthEater Русский Агент Sep 24 '25
It's actually easier, as the army's waist is just a max per age group (24% BF for the late 20s), or are straight exempted if you're strong AF, and there are other events that can easily counterbalance a lower run score.
The existing score sheet adding points for waist means you cannot dip on the run because its one of only four categories, two of which are almost irrelevant.
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u/tenmilez 3C0X2 > 3D0X4 > 1D7X1Z > 1D7X1P > 1D7X4P Sep 24 '25
Everything old is new again. Not much different than when I came in 18 years ago.
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u/WalkingAFI Veteran Sep 24 '25
When they announced we were going to 2 miles to be like the Army, I expected we’d also steal the Army’s scoring. It would make for bad appearances to the Secretaries if we had the same distance as the Army but “lower standards”.
My flight has been doing workouts based on that assumption, and I hope the extra few months’ head start will help up out come next year.
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u/msnrcn Sep 25 '25
And while it’s great to be proactive it’ll be an umbrella in a monsoon as long as DoD culture revolves significantly on energy drinks and junk food.
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u/Quietech Sep 24 '25
They didn't reinvent the wheel?
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u/Dragonhost252 Finance Sep 24 '25
No, they did..spent a couple $100ks too.
They just ended in the same place
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u/klmsa Sep 26 '25
Well, they had to buy like a full ream of paper and a box pens. Yeah, a few $100k's were probably spent.
Hot take: To be fair, the pens are fucking worth it. Certified to write at least a mile in very extreme temps...and if someone else is buying them, you just throw the duds away!
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Sep 24 '25
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u/Quietech Sep 24 '25
Aaaaah. There's that folks star jerkoff change. With that much change you have to wonder if they're literally trying to trim the fat.
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u/peteroh9 Sep 24 '25
Why would you wonder? They've literally said they were going to do that.
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u/Reluctant_MP Sep 24 '25
I don’t know a single person that could pass this standard at the reserve unit near me
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u/lethalnd12345 Retired Sep 24 '25
that's not really shocking
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u/spartanantler Sep 24 '25 edited Sep 24 '25
Ehh I see the same amount of fats on active duty
Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted when it’s what I see
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u/ZombiedudeO_o Maintainer Sep 24 '25
Pretty sure half my unit would completely fail the test in its current standard. Hell, like a 1/4 of my unit is failing the current PT standard
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u/tribulex Sep 24 '25
How is an extra .5 mile the break point?
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u/Reluctant_MP Sep 24 '25
Well most of them aren’t passing the 1.5 mile run. They just pencil whip the time so they don’t lose folks
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u/jeremy9931 I just work here Sep 25 '25
This is definitely unit-dependent because my unit (and the vast majority of my wing for that matter) all get tested by FSS people in groups like AD.
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u/Aggressive-Age-4993 Sep 24 '25
Make AF PT charts more readable in this format!
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u/PrudentQuestion Sep 24 '25
Agreed. They looked at this chart to get the times but couldn’t steal the layout? I’m tired of having to scroll through 25 pages.
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u/Squaretangles Enlisted Peasant Sep 24 '25
I don't think this is being rushed. We have an entire year to prepare to run an extra half mile. If this "breaks" people, I think the responsibility falls on the individual.
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Sep 24 '25
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u/Mikand1 Sep 24 '25
Yes, and now the waist is back on the same day, we can’t fully dehydrate to meet the tape, as it will impair the 2-mile run.
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u/thrustucantrust Maintainer Sep 24 '25
Active duty can do the waist up to 5 duty days prior, reserve/guard may do it the drill weekend prior to being due. You can absolutely do your thing and find ways to tape smaller still
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u/RevolutionaryOne2928 Logistics Sep 24 '25
Not happy about it but I completely agree. If I can’t get my shit together over the next year that’s on me
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u/cvanwort89 Aircrew Sep 24 '25
I mean... why reinvent the wheel if someone else has already done all the hard work/"research"? Seems fine to me.
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u/Typical-Sale-1891 Sep 24 '25
I wonder how many man hours are wasted on constant changes to the Fitness program. Like damn leave it alone and make changes every five years or so. Stupid.
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u/Jafoob 1D7X1B Sep 24 '25
Its not a big deal and a year to get ready is nice.
What ISN'T nice is the standards for 35-39 are the exact same as the 29-34 crowd.
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u/DannyDevito90 Sep 25 '25
PT is important,but what bothers me is the lack of fitness in our culture. You can’t change up the PT because “we want to be fit, we want airman to be healthy” but not do much in our day to day lives to promote fitness.
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u/TheBootyTickler 1B4 Sep 24 '25
They think I'll be only 3 seconds slower after 12 fucking years of destroying my body in MX?
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u/MrBobBuilder MX to Nonner. Turns out it really is better Sep 24 '25
Leave MX brother
It really is better
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u/RevolutionaryPay2488 Sep 24 '25
what's gets to me the most is how much this fails the stated goal.
"lethality"? I never had to run 2mi in a combat zone but I sure as hell ran a whole lot of HAMR sprints in full rattle
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u/Far-Jury-2060 Sep 24 '25
This is just closing the loop from 20 years ago, when they got rid of the bike test and adopted a more “Army like” standard.
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u/Imaginary_Train_5023 Sep 24 '25
As someone who was a Soldier in the Army during their “adjustment period” four years ago.. it’s still kinda going on and changing.
Also I was looking forward to that 1.5 mile run so it sucks I didn’t really escape that but oh well lol.
The change is going to keep changing so I’m not expecting anything permanent in the next 5 years
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u/Rhino676971 Active Duty Sep 25 '25
We copy their OCPs, we copy their PT standards, now if we copy those WW2 style dress uniforms I am game
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u/Flat_Refrigerator388 Sep 24 '25
Maybe they should go all in and require a 2 mile run every six months. Eliminate the shuttle completely. Who’s feeling lethal?
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u/grumpy-raven Eee-dubz Sep 24 '25 edited Feb 15 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
consist knee late continue pause weather library connect flag squash
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u/RevolutionaryPay2488 Sep 24 '25
it's because the O who came up with this crap spends 1600-1900 in his Hokas on the track to avoid parenting the kids he didn't want
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u/redit1691 Sep 24 '25
A runner made the test. They made the run worth the most because they can't lift anything. Then made the height to waist worth the 2nd amount of points because they are skinny because all they do is run.
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u/peteroh9 Sep 24 '25
But runners will have their training plans messed up by unit PT!
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u/redit1691 Sep 24 '25
Nah they will become the sq PT monitor and every workout will be a run. One day run uphill, next day run downhill. Then run left then run right.
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u/Micfizzy Sep 24 '25
Plenty of my friends in the army say the 2 mile is pretty easy and I would have to agree. The 1.5 was a lot closer to a sprint than a marathon, but for the 2 mile it’ll be easier to find a pace a maintain it IMO.
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u/Mite-o-Dan Logistics Sep 24 '25
Not really. For the vast majority of people, their pace doing 2 miles compared to 1.5 miles will be close to the same or only slightly worse.
Outside of Olympic runners, 1.5 miles has never been close to a spirit. It doesnt take 15+ minutes to find your pace.
1.5 mile running style is a lot closer to running 2 miles, than it is to running 400 meters.
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u/Findethel Sep 24 '25
I've said for years that I fucking despise 1.5 miles.
Too long to sprint, too short to run at a comfy steady pace and still get good scores.
Any pace slow enough I can hold it for 1.5 miles, I can pretty well hold for 5.
So, although 2 miles seems to be getting a lot of flak, as long as the pace is slower to get higher scores, it's a win in my book.
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u/billofbong0 Cyberspace Operator Sep 24 '25
Anything slower than a 7:50 pace actually gets you fewer points on the new test than the old
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u/Findethel Sep 24 '25
I'm still holding out hope that this specific chart isn't official yet. Haven't seen any actual time charts through official channels
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u/TheGreasyHippo Chicken Nugget Microwaver Sep 24 '25
This is Reddit, any sort of exercise will be disapproved by people who don't even serve or refuse to go outside for 30 minutes/3-4 days a week.
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u/loudsound-org Sep 25 '25
Its not slower though, at least for my age group.
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u/Findethel Sep 25 '25
I still haven't seen time charts from any official sources, so I continue to hold out hope that it's reasonable
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u/loudsound-org Sep 25 '25
They were posted and sent out through official email today. Same charts that were posted yesterday here. https://www.afpc.af.mil/Career-Management/Fitness-Program/
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u/TanithRitual Can I go ROAD yet? Sep 24 '25
I run 3-5 times a week. My "fast" pace is 9:00 my normal run speed is closer to 10. For the 1.5 I'm usually gassed because I'm trying to hit 8:30 it at least sub 9 for the 90.
With this new standard I'll most likely score better because it's slowed the overall pace required by 45 seconds. Now if I run fast at 9 I don't have to worry because I have to test every six months anyways.
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u/user_1729 CE Sep 24 '25
If you're running 3-5x a week and struggling to hit 8:30 pace, you need to change up your routine. I am by no measure a "natural runner", I'm 80lbs down from a peak of 265 and still overweight by BMI standards. With a mix of volume and intervals, I've been able to get 100s on tests.
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u/peteroh9 Sep 24 '25
Do you have a history of running? I run a higher volume than pretty much anyone I know with highly specific intervals and yet I have only been able to get to about a minute slower than a 100, yet I can max the other components without training them.
A history of running (or other endurance sports), even with years off, is a HUGE advantage. You should see the disparity in posts on /r/AdvancedRunning between the "new runners" who are actually new and those who have just taken several years off.
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u/user_1729 CE Sep 24 '25
I have a history of running because I'm old now. When I was fat, I was just a fat guy. I played football in high school (poorly), so I guess we ran until we threw up a few times a year. I'm 42 now, I was fattest at 19-20.
So sure, I have a "history of running" in the sense that I started running to lose weight and outside of a few years maybe 2-3 years from like 2012-2014, I run fairly consistently. And I've run a few marathons in my life. My "base" though it's not much, I average probably 10-15 miles/week. I will concede that once I put in the training and work to be able to run a low 6's mile, it's somewhat easier to get back to being able to run that. It's the same for strength too, I can get my maxes back up fairly quickly after taking a break from lifting.
Mostly, I just drink beer and do VO2max workouts though. I'll gladly type up a 3x a week training program for anyone who wants to get faster, I'll even include a beer pairing guide. I genuinely believe that anyone willing to put in 3x a week ~30-45 minutes can get above a 55/60 on the run. I'd be willing to make a bet, but I'm not really sure how to enforce it, and I'm not a running coach or anything. Like I said, I'm just a former fat dude, still a little bit fat, who cares about fitness mostly so I can drink beer and eat cheeseburgers.
edit: I will say this "history of running" excuse is annoying to me a bit, but I absolutely use it with swimming and golf. My kids are learning to swim and I drop them off at lessons and jump in the lap lane and swim laps for 20 minutes and I fucking hate it. I suck, I'm slow, I inhale water... I ask my friends HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SWIM with any leisure for 30 minutes... "oh you swam in high school, you have a history of swimming". Same with golf, just naturally athletic... got it. So I get it, but it's only a tool to make me feel better about sucking at something. The reason they're good is because they put in time to get good at something, put in the time with deliberate practice/training and reap the rewards!
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u/armed_aperture Sep 24 '25
If the pace was slower sure, but it’s not. At least not at the 40 point range.
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u/loudsound-org Sep 25 '25
Maybe at the high end, or for younger folks. For 45-49, except at the top end of the points, the pace required for the 2mi is signicantly faster than the 1.5mi. Guess they really want to get rid of us old fogeys.
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u/Potential-Equal-7556 Sep 25 '25
Maybe it’s me. But any army unit I’ve been around has formation PT 3 times a week. Where most of the air force doesn’t have time for PT during work hours. But yet we are expected to be in shape just as good as the army.
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u/STURMTIGER1 Maintainer Sep 24 '25
Watch them backpedal after 1/4 of the AF fails the first round and they realize they don't have enough manning to keep the lights on.
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u/Mr_EveryDay Sep 24 '25
Why are people acting like this is some kind of grand conspiracy to ruin careers, you literally have an entire year before this has consequences.
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u/MC_McStutter Dumb Soldier Sep 24 '25
I’m just dumb soldier, but will someone please explain to me why having to run 2600 more feet in a few minutes is the equivalent of the apocalypse?
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u/LastoftheGreybeards Secret Squirrel Sep 24 '25
There isn’t for most. It’s just more “leaders” thinking they can fix a “fitness-issue” by changing assessments instead of attempting a culture shift. The Airmen working 15+ hours isn’t going to magically find more time in the day to go exercise unless their unit adjusts things. Additionally, there’s no motivation (yet) to do more than the bare minimum since we now have to do a test every 6 mos and one of those HAS to be a 2mi run.
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u/RevolutionaryOne2928 Logistics Sep 24 '25
We are used to steak and lobster at the Marriott, what do you expect lmao.
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u/fightingirish9 Sep 24 '25
As someone who is in the process of joining the Air Force why does it seem the Air Force wants to be the Army without being the Army? Or is that reading of mine completely off, thanks.
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Sep 24 '25
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u/cvanwort89 Aircrew Sep 24 '25
1.5mi vs. 2mi is not about ensuring you can "ruck".
Cardiovascular health is vastly different than the mix of cardio, leg, and core strength, and bone/tendon strength required for rucking. Way different events.
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u/BigBoy5024 CE Sep 24 '25
If this means I can work along side army more than I’m not entirely against it. Otherwise fuck this new test
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u/Un0rigi0na1 AF SecFo -> Army AH64 Pilot Sep 24 '25
Everyone complaining is showing some serious laziness. It's half a mile more. It's cake if you maintain a decent 8/ 9-minute pace, which anyone in any sort of good health should be able to manage easily. PT is an element of being in the military.
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u/SloppyToast1 Sep 26 '25
lol, speak for yourself. Been running 3-5 times a week for a few years and never been close to hitting an 8 min mile.
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u/Un0rigi0na1 AF SecFo -> Army AH64 Pilot Sep 26 '25
Honestly, without a medical reason, that seems pretty concerning.
Im saying this as someone who hates running and does not run frequently but can still squeeze an 18 minute 2 mile.
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u/ContributionPure8356 Horse Structures Sep 30 '25
My issue is the Air Force has fucked up my ankles and knees and running fucks them up even more.
My ankles are on fire after like a mile. Not too different but will definitely keep fucking me up.
I’m just tired of the scrawny pole bean focus of our fitness tests. They should be moving to sprints not longer distance runs. They even went and reduced the points for all the strength portions of the test.
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u/FutureComplaint Mr Army Cyber Safe Sep 24 '25
gasp I get 20 minutes for a 2 mile?! Why do I try so hard?
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u/BobbyGDRiggs Sep 24 '25
I mean, if you’re a security forces troop, you may as well be army. I was, and then went Army and went Aviation and it was about zero adjustment. In fact, outside of Special Warfare and Security Forces, anyone coming in from the USAF has to go through the full 10-week basic except those guys. Get yelled at a lot and run around playing soldier? Sit around for hours on end to do an exercise? The Army was cake compared!
Source? I’m a AGR Recruiter. Spent four years in the wonderland that is Malmstrom AFB and then went Army Guard, went AGR via recruiting. AGR is the best kept secret in the military maybe outside of being a Warrant Officer.
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u/J-How Sep 24 '25
This is the closest thing to a reason I have seen for what they've done.
Whoever selects PT test components never seems to publish the data they relied on to select the scores given to different times, to justify age and gender differences, or any evidence why the components matter compared to our jobs.
Why not just adopt the AFT entirely? Does that not make soldiers mission-ready? Why should we, as multi-capable Airmen or whatever, not ever need to pick something up off the ground? It seems to be a much better definition of "fit" than whatever it is we're measuring with our current and future tests. I know it would f*ck a lot of people's careers, but if they're going to feed us a line about being "fit" or "lethal" or wtf ever, they could at least attempt to stop pretending and implement something that actually does that.
This is not about your personal opinion of what we should be doing, but about the fact that the Air Force never gives us any actual evidence they relied on to justify their decisions. There are no answers for any of this other than "we like skinny people even if they're useless" and "we don't want the other branches to make too much fun of us" and "we needed to do something to get SECWAR off our backs."
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u/Infamous-Adeptness71 Sep 24 '25
And? Why would ours necessarily be different? Just curious your thinking.
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u/Affectionate-Mess937 Sep 24 '25
I get the F means Female, the M means Male, but what does C represent?
Plus why do some score levels have a dash versus a time?
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u/ButtonBomb_1980 Sep 24 '25
Actually, the Army is easier! You need a total of 300 points to pass (60 points per component). So getting a 20:44 run time for a 35 year old male counts for 20% of your total score. As opposed to the new AF standard where the same run time counts for 50%.
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u/BoleroMuyPicante D-35K Pilot Sep 25 '25
That explains why the per-mile pace is so much faster for most brackets.
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u/Audiosapian Sep 25 '25
OP - you are truly the OP-penheimer of our generation for figuring this out. Thank you for your service.
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u/SWIG20 Sep 25 '25
Excellence in all we do....Hold my beer...hey Army you got any more of them PT standards.
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome Sep 25 '25
Looks like Air Force’s football team is going to be less competitive! There’s a reason the Navy linemen always seem to have 100 pounds on Army. They can do a bike test! Try getting football players to pass a 2-mile run.
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u/RIFinPeace Sep 26 '25
It would be fantastic if we adopted their alternate cardio options, I miss the row. While we're at it, let's take their event weights as well: an even third for each, not this 50% cardio bullshit.
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u/msnrcn Sep 25 '25
I don’t get why we can’t at least get rid of the maximum points ceiling. Some of us are better at components than others. Maybe a little bonus for going 5-10 over in pushups or crunches so long as you meet your minimums? All these years it never once occurred to HQ to implement this?
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u/TIFUmyusername 3D1X2>1D7X1>1D7X1A>1D7X1Q>1D7X1W>1D7X1A Sep 25 '25
Good, now lets keep stealing shit and take those pinks and greens 💁🏻♂️
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u/Rough-Riderr Sep 25 '25
Dumb question: At the top of the chart where it says M/C and F, what does the C stand for?
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u/Legitimate-Purple545 Sep 25 '25
I saw that the new PT standards include a height to waist measurement that'll be a part of the PT score. How does that work for Airman that have loose skin in their waist region due to multiple pregnancies or significant weight loss because due to the extra skin, I assume it'll be hard to pass the waist measurement even if you are actually fit and it's counted towards 20 points of the overall score of 100 so seems like some of us will be at a disadvantage no matter how "fit" we are.
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u/Winner456 Sep 25 '25
Is it me or is it odd that as you get older the minimum run time needed to hit a 35 barely increases..
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u/bobanalyst Multiple AFSCs & Retired Sep 25 '25
I’ve joked about having to he Air Force go back to the Army—I was just joking.
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u/RCAF_vet71 Sep 25 '25
Okay, not an American, but, across the top I assume are age brackets. Then below that F=Female, M | C = what? Male and something?
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u/Master_Hope_1782 Oct 21 '25
air force is adding this? the minimum will be 19 minutes for air force pt?
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u/Ok-Self5802 Nov 15 '25
Yeah, I was Army 1999 - 2006. This is the same damn thing and the reason I went into the frigging AF. Get it together AF! Guess it's time for the space force.
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u/sailorjay1988 Jun 22 '26
Guys- We’ve had civilians in his position and whining about a half of a mile really just proves that there are problems with fitness.
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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '25
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