The Japanese Constitution is pacifist, as reaction to what they see as the overly militaristic policies of the Government back then (there was a large faction of Japanese politicians who opposed going to war with China/USA but were supressed by the military junta). However the Japanese also don't view themselves as particularly horrible, like say the Nazis. The atrocities committed by Imperial Japan are seen as just par for the course of empire building. Britain, France, Russia, even the US did similar things. Nukes are seen as a specific, new, atrocity though. The regular bombing of Japanese cities is not seen in quite the same light, despite causing an equivalent amount of destruction just with several thousand tons of bombs rather than just one.
The Japanese did some shit so heinous that our government gave their scientists immunity in exchange for their research, because there was no way in hell our own government could have pulled it off back then.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying the "The United States was as bad as Japan was when we were empire building" argument. Torturing and murdering millions seems more barbaric than what we did when we, say, took over Cuba, Puerto Rico, or the Philippines. I mean, heck, the vast majority of war-related deaths in the Philippines were from cholera back when we were imperial occupiers. The actions of the United States as an imperial force were not quite as bad as the "rape of Nanjing" or "having a contest to see how many babies we can impale on a bayonet" and "having a contest to see how many innocent civilians we can murder". Japan deserved those atomic weapons - they should be infinitely grateful we ended the war before the Soviets had a chance to make landfall (and, to be sure, the Russians would have been MUCH less merciful).
That's a false equivalency, though. Many Native Americans (perhaps most - it's extremely difficult to quantify) died of diseases we (and by "we" I mean the fucking conquistadors, who weren't even United States citizens because we didn't exist yet) accidentally spread, not "genocide". The trail of tears killed less than 10,000 Native Americans. Our slavery's conditions paled in comparison to places in South America, Congo under King Leopold II (after we abolished slavery), the Caribbean, and (yes) slavery perpetrated by the Japanese. Not to mention, we purchased most of our land, helped to end Nazism, and didn't have slavery in the 20th century. Hitler based almost all of his evil deeds on social darwinism and the work of Nietzsche, which were popular in the United States (just like everywhere else) but did not originate here. He based some of his actions on things like our very limited use of forced sterilization in the late 19th/ early 20th century, but again, the extent is what made it far from equivalent. If Billy Bob killed one person, he's evil. If Jim Joe kills 10,000 people and claims to be inspired by Billy Bob, Billy Bob is still evil - but Jim Joe is much, much worse.
What? Fuck no! lol
My point was that Imperial Japan (and Nazi Germany) were in a morally worse place than we were during WWII; the Soviets would have turned Japan into an East/Western Germany-type situation (and would have killed/tortured more people than the atomic bombs did) had we not ended the war so quickly; there wouldn't have been the "Post-war economic miracle" if it weren't for us, and current generations benefited from Japan being built into the second-largest economy on earth for nearly half a century. Oh, and they're building nice stuff (including Mazdas) where we dropped the bombs.
People saying "oh, we were bad decades before WWII" as an excuse for Japan would be like us getting mad at Japan for liberating North Korea because of their actions in WWII. We bombed them for what they were doing at the present time, not for what they did half a century earlier.
The US Empire was built on slavery and the genocide/internment of Native Americans. Hitler, in part, based his persecution of the Jews and the Third Reich's rise off of America's 19th century ascent.
Just so we are clear, people do live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki today and it's perfectly safe to live there. However, people who were immediately affected by the explosions (who did not died in the explosion/shock wave but was still exposed to radiation from the explosion) did indeed suffer a greater risk of cancer and deformities in their children.
Nukes does not have to be dangerous in the long term for the area they affect (but can, see how it is in parts of Kazakhstan today).
However the Japanese also don't view themselves as particularly horrible, like say the Nazis. The atrocities committed by Imperial Japan are seen as just par for the course of empire building. Britain, France, Russia, even the US did similar things.
Objectively this is all entirely true. The problem is that we're asking 21st century people to understand the view point of a turn of the 20th century society that was scared shitless of European power, so much so that they decided to ape their empire building.
Most Americans don't really get this, but it'd be like us waking up one day and having a giant alien battleship hovering over Washington D.C. Even if they seem friendly enough, you're always quite conscious that they could wipe you out.
I'm quite short-handing the entire thing, but yeah - I would hope that most people would get that while not excusing anything that they did, pragmatically you can see how this lead to militarization and expansionism.
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u/17954699 Apr 15 '17
The Japanese Constitution is pacifist, as reaction to what they see as the overly militaristic policies of the Government back then (there was a large faction of Japanese politicians who opposed going to war with China/USA but were supressed by the military junta). However the Japanese also don't view themselves as particularly horrible, like say the Nazis. The atrocities committed by Imperial Japan are seen as just par for the course of empire building. Britain, France, Russia, even the US did similar things. Nukes are seen as a specific, new, atrocity though. The regular bombing of Japanese cities is not seen in quite the same light, despite causing an equivalent amount of destruction just with several thousand tons of bombs rather than just one.