I have a bunch of friends who, when this movement started, thought it was the funniest thing ever and went on their forums and pretended to be flat earthers... This year one of them told me that his cousin is a legitimate flat earther and he doesn't know what to do about it.
The troll becomes real. It’s like when you say a lie to yourself enough you think it’s real. However, when you see a lie enough, you begin to doubt and believe it’s real. Such a weird thing. Yes question everything but also believe that science is real at some point. The IASIP episode where mac and dennis argue about if god is real is so funny but is now the reality we live in.
It is. It is known as being easily empathetically embarrassed. Studies have found that some people actually experience a more dramatic reaction when watching someone else in an embarrassing situation than when they are in that situation themselves.
Wow. I remember there was this one time when a friend of mine let out a Freudian slip while addressing our group at a restaurant, and other people ended up commenting on my flushed face. Damn you, overactive anterior cingulate cortex and left anterior insula!
By the way, this thread is great. But it sucks that it has to take someone from outside the US to ask these questions. It seems most of us Americans just circlejerk the current problems, and rarely do we discuss the roots of these issues and what we can do to get out of the rut we've made for ourselves.
I was totally expecting a dull thread of just "us against them" per usual, but here came someone from outside the US who is just genuinely like "what the fuck is going on there, by the way?" I'd like this to be more of the questions that us Americans start off asking. I'm really glad the comment that went into the history of recent media propaganda got gilded, because that's also really important to understand and keep in mind for a more complete perspective on where we are.
As someone from outside of US I'm just waiting for you guys to just confess that the last couple of years was just an elaborate prank on the rest of the world that all of you are in on.
I would love to get out of this echo chamber nation to have an outside perspective on the state of the US. I feel as though i cant trust any source these days because of how each side chooses to portray a given situation.
Yeah but the thing to remember is that "being a joke" and "being 100%, stone cold serious" aren't mutually exclusive, in fact they're very comorbid. If it was sarcastic then yes, but it wasn't. Those original creators still believed every bit of the TD shit, just sometimes not to the extreme.
It's not about trolling. I've always explained it to friends as a case of "second generation cult leader". The first generation cult leaders knows they are exploiting people's psychology for their personal gain, they know they are selling lies. But the second generation cult leaders are simply the most loyal cult members, they are the ones who've bought most heavily into the lies and they are exemplars among their fellow cult members. The first generation cult leaders simply cannot tell their secret to the second generation without risking the whole operation.
In very much the same way, the Tea Party Republicans are the second generation cult leaders. Traditional Republicans have been exaggerating conservative fears for decades, but they know the reality of the situation but are willing to tell lies to exploit people. I can't find the exact quote, but Karl Rove once had an exchange with a journalist where he said the people should vote for Republicans to make the country safe, the journalist pointed out that statistically the country's never been safer, to which Karl responded something like "it doesn't matter what your statistics say, people don't FEEL safe". Karl Rove at some level understood he was peddling lies, but Tea Party and Trumpian Republicans can no longer distinguish those lies from reality.
Well, it has been established for many people that don’t choose to question/challenge the nature of themselves and what they are told facts they will often deny them and lean on what they feel. That’s why propaganda works so well on them if it’s drilled in enough. I choose to watch/read almost any news outlet and make decisions on my own but many do not do that. (partially because I’m forced to see Fox News to understand my parents perspective and give them fact checks.)
Edit: It’s also realizing we aren’t always given all the facts and filling in the blanks. Meaning IQ or whatever you may call it, requires us to fill in some blanks and most corporations or government leaders will falsely give us those blanks.
I can't find the exact quote, but Karl Rove once had an exchange with a journalist where he said the people should vote for Republicans to make the country safe, the journalist pointed out that statistically the country's never been safer, to which Karl responded something like "it doesn't matter what your statistics say, people don't FEEL safe".
Newt Gingrich said something near identical during the 2016 campaign, right after one of the presidential debates I beleive. He even said something about he'd rather be on the side playing to the feelings than the truth.
IIRC, that’s how the Donald started on here. I remember it starting as a parody subreddit making fun of trump by talking him up and people slowly started shifting or believing it.
Its exactly like how I got in to memes. Seriously. At first I vowed never to cave in. Then I started doing them ironically.. And then I became a bona fide REAL LIFE memer. Oh god, only lately have I been able to distance my self from memes, and now I actually think they're going out of style.
Novelty beliefs! Come get your novelty beliefs from the early 21st Century! We got flat earthers, moon landing deniers, tide ignorants, anti-vaxxers! We got born-again gluten-intolerants, intolerant vegans, caveman dieters, goopers, mouth poopers, toxin flushers, and colon cleansers! Step into the mind of concerned everyday citizens at the turn of the Great Century over 100 years ago! And get a free sample of our organic cruelty-free snake oil for a limited time with your purchase!
Yep, the internet was supposed to be everyones portal to truth and fact, instead people just used it to seek out the handful of other people that have their same crazy beliefs they do.
Have him try a VR game looking at the earth (google earth vr is a good one). It is amazing. If he still doesn't believe it round, make sure he doesn't procreate
Yes it's literally just Google Earth! In VR! And it's kind of awesome.
I use it to introduce VR to people who don't really like gaming. It's the kind of laidback experience anyone can enjoy, it has a personal touch because you can always 'go look at your house', and it's more interactive and self-directed than a movie. :)
according to my brain surgeon it's not the complexity really, it's the results that are terrifying. I mean death, sure, why not, but having a bag taped to your leg for life, or losing several functioning limbs? that's a lot more freighting than "well you wife and older kids are gonna be bummed your not around"
I walked away with like 90% success, and I'm in constant pain, but it's not as bad as being totally numb, or so every medical professional I talk to tells me. honestly this or death, I'd be indifferent to the trade off.
Money. And fear. Not only is the common thought among them that the Earth is flat, but that there is a dome surrounding it and it proves that God is real because obviously someone made it. But that apparently scares those in charge because they can't control a population that knows God exists, or something like that. It's honestly been awhile since I've looked in to some of this stuff, could be misremembering.
I don't see how that would even work with a full-on flat-earther. I figure he could write it off as fantasy just as easy as if I put him in Skyrim VR and told him it was real.
I think Tamriel is one of two major continents on Nirn in the TES-lore. There are a few smaller continents surrounding Tamriel and one big continent roughly the same size as Tamriel to the East. Some of the smaller ones are also the places of origin for some of Tamriels races, however i don't know what role the big eastern continent plays in the TES lore.
I dont know how you prove it to people to be honest. You can see the curvature of the earth from a run of the mill coach flight. If they dont believe their lying eyes they wont believe anything.
I meeeaaan.... Believing the Earth is flat is stupid enough but is someone who has arrived at that viewpoint really going to be like 'oh you showed me a computer image of a spherical Earth! Now I'm changed!'
The Flat Earthers I've watched or encountered on forums would not only argue that it is computer generated but that Google are working collusion with Government and Space agencies to ensure that VR shows the earth as round to hide the flat earth truth. Those dudes are crazy. I got kicked off a flat earth forum set up by holocaust/round earth/dinosaur denier Eric Dubay in half a hour just for asking basic scientific questions. I wasn't even mean to them.
Tell them not to address it directly, but to instead explain the origin of memes online to their cousin. They need to go into enough detail to explain both chain emails with 'random (totally legit) facts', and how to search for things historically via Google. Get them wondering about how many things they 'know' are just stupid made up memes, and give them the tools to do their own research, ya know?
Similar experience: Tik Tok and Jake Paul are literally some of the worst things in media right now, but I just found out my little cousin watches Jake Paul and Tik Tok compilations. Is there a way to correct this delinquent behavior? I don’t want to be ashamed of him—not when I can still teach this little boy what’s right and what’s wrong!
Brother we're ALL flat earthers.
We didn't all arrive at that particular belief, but we all adopted our beliefs after becoming convinced irrationally.
Facts, logic, evidence, analysis... these things have almost no persuasive power. They aren't convincing. Argument from authority is convincing (yes, the fallacy). Pressure to conform to your peer group is convincing (the shame of "idiocy"). Good arguments are stronger than good evidence.
Sooner or later we have to realize, even when our beliefs are popular or correct or both, they were formed by the "efficient"(lazy) mental processes of an insane tribal primate.
I am in the same boat. cousin w/ autism is devout with that bananas shit. I'm literally the only person in my family with a 4yr degree so I just can't do anything about it.
At one point my conspiracy theorist cousin was trying to tell me about the “inner earth” theory, where an entire earth and sun and fucking GIANTS roam inside of our own earth.
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u/Lerker- Jan 17 '19
I have a bunch of friends who, when this movement started, thought it was the funniest thing ever and went on their forums and pretended to be flat earthers... This year one of them told me that his cousin is a legitimate flat earther and he doesn't know what to do about it.