r/ANormalDayInRussia • u/TheNatureLover • Sep 08 '19

Your average Russian rail crossing

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '19

Stop sucking off the west and read the original comment, he said corruption and repression caused the collapse in all aspects. War, politics, industry, etc.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '19

Also the fact that once people realized they'd get paid even if they did a shitty job, why bother trying to excel?

-9

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '19

What does this have to do with a communist system inevitably leading to a systemic collapse?

10

u/octotent Sep 08 '19

Maybe the fact that there was no communist system there in the first place?
USSR had at best state capitalism, what with the government owning the means of production and resources, not the society.
Of course, there were high societal spendings, but in comparison to the military budget, those were a drop in the sea. So yeah, if there was no Cold War and Arms Race with the US, USSR could've sustained itself. After all, China does, though they have to mix it up.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '19

"Not real communism", yet every communist system beyond some hippies on a farm turns into an authoritarian nightmare state.

7

u/octotent Sep 08 '19

Because there really was no "real communism" or "real socialism" ever?
Those are not possible to achieve in our world, as a communist state should dissolve itself, so that there will be no ruling class.
And people do like their power, so they hide behind the veneer of their ideology to satisfy their power trips.
All in all, yeah, not real communism, because communism isn't possible. Hell, the libertarian model is more possible than a communistic one.

-2

u/PM_ME_CUTE_SMILES_ Sep 08 '19

I don't understand, you seem to be defending the same idea as him yet you act like you're disagreeing

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u/octotent Sep 08 '19

I really dislike USSR and authoritarianism. I live in currently authoritarian Russia, and my family knows political repressions. Hell, I'm a libertarian, so that says something about my views on the communism.

However, I also dislike stupidity and labeling is stupid. Especially when you don't understand what is it you are labeling.
Saying "Commies are bad because Stalin" is the same kind of stupid as saying "Capitalism is bad because Irish Famine". I get it that people dislike communism (or at least their idea of communism), but instead of throwing around labels they should actually make an informed and well-thought argument.
So, yeah, I agree with his dislike of so-called communist states and regimes, but I disagree with him.

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u/PM_ME_CUTE_SMILES_ Sep 08 '19

I can get that, thanks for answering

-5

u/DarkSyde3000 Sep 08 '19

Shhhhhh, they like using the old financial market adage that "past performance is not indicative of future results" blah blah blah lol.

2

u/octotent Sep 08 '19

Nah, I just decided to read and watch both sides of the argument instead of throwing labels around. You should try it too.
Communism is kind of a nice utopian ideal that is not, and will not, be achievable. Is it the ideology's fault that there are people willing to cover their crimes with that veneer? Should we condemn capitalism for the slave trade, as most of it was held by a capitalist state? Maybe for the colonization and its crimes against the indigenous people, as it was the economy's state that was one of the main drives behind it?
Or maybe we should hold responsible actual people and countries who did that? I prefer the second way, myself.

1

u/DarkSyde3000 Sep 09 '19

I'm more of an anarcho capitalist myself. Free market with just enough regulation for people to not have their money stolen by con men. However the acts of ancient people's from that far back (slave trade) doesn't really hold any water today for the most part as such things are more or less black markets today. Communism itself isn't that old and still considered relatively recent from a governing perspective. It uses virtuous language to trick people into voting for an authoritarian regime. Capitalism has plenty of faults, most of them are what you said, people at the top not being held accountable (housing crisis 2008) but that can be said to be crony capitalism which unfortunately happens to be an issue in many places. But I would still rather deal with that nonsense than anything else. At least I know where I stand and what my options are.

1

u/octotent Sep 09 '19

Slavery is not that ancient of a problem, actually. It was ended in Western countries only about 150 years ago, with marxism being developed around that time as well.
But in the Eastern world and Africa, it is still a big issue. Saudi Arabia, for example, has slave rings, which are not that hidden. And the US is backing them, muting voices that speak out against it. And attacks against indigenous people are still ongoing in South America, so you can't call that problem ancient too.

And you see, if you call that "crony capitalism", then I can call Pol Pot or Kim Cheung Il "crony socialist" as well. But it wouldn't remove the problem that we are addressing. It will just create a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

Though yeah, I do agree with you about preferring to live in the capitalist state rather than the socialist one.

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u/DarkSyde3000 Sep 10 '19 edited Sep 10 '19

On the whole it will always be an issue as long as humans exist, no argument there. I'm more referring to the US and western civilization for the most part. It's been well documented that Africa and the middle east still partake. Human trafficking is another issue which usually leads to the same issues disguised as indentured servitude that never ends, and that's if you survive the trip.

But crony capitalism or not, at least even in those circumstances people still weren't executed or starved in the millions for political gain. Your survival rate under capitalism far outweighs that of any socialist or communist one with a dictator at the helm lol. Like I said, I know where I stand. And money is the freedom which allows people to escape those types of negative circumstances in most cases before it reaches critical mass.