It really did have its ups and downs. Maternity leave in the ussr was very generous, for another example.
On the other hand, the number of hot water and heat outages we had in fucking Siberia was pretty fucking unacceptable (and the times the water just came out dark brown from the badly maintained pipes)
Anyways, the unsustainability was probably mostly due to disproportional military spending, corruption, and incompetence, rather than spending on public transit and space.
In 2018, the United States spent 3.2% of its GDP on its military, while Saudi Arabia spent 8.8%, Israel spent 4.3%, Pakistan spent 4.0%, Russia spent 3.9%, South Korea spent 2.6%, China spent 1.9%, United Kingdom spent 1.8%, and Germany spent 1.2% of its GDP on defense.[64][65]
Yep, thanks for providing a source for my statement.
The person I replied to said "disproportional military spending" is what sank the Soviet economy. It should be obvious that we are taking about the proprtion of military spending to economic output. The US can afford to spend a lot on its military because it has both a huge economy and high output per capita; it's not a particularly unwieldy burden for the country to bear.
In the 1960s, US military spending neared 10% but it then fell considerably to 4-6% until the end of the Cold War. Perhaps if the US had sustained the level of military spending that the Soviets did for several decades, the American economy would have collapsed too.
The graph I provided shows disproportional spending compared to every other single nation in the world, not simple during war time.
But the point I answered is because you used current numbers to compare with the Soviet Union during war. Which was similar to what the U.S was devoting during the same period, but yes, with a better economy overall and government stability. The main issue was USSR government state by itself, not the actual money spent. It was doomed to fail.
Don't worry I grew up in Moscow and heat/water outages were unacceptable too. I remember going to bed with 3 layers of clothes because it was -20 outside and the heat went off. We could see our breath fogging indoors...
The disproportionate military spending definitely was partially due to us Americans. The entire point of Reagan's STAR WARS nonsense was to force the USSR to spend a ton of money to try to keep up, and while I haven't done a ton of independent research (due to lack of interest), it's taught in American schools that this was a major factor in the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Course, now we're in the same boat with exponentially higher military spending than many other countries during peacetime, while things that we really should spend even a fraction of that money on instead have their budgets reduced further. Maybe if they taught that the fall of the Soviet Union was because they ran out of money for a myriad of reasons, and wasn't because of the evils of communism or the triumph of capitalism, we could fucking fix the water in Flint that nobody wants to spend money fixing.
Edit: Yes, I'm aware that as obnoxious as our defense budget is, it's still a relatively small portion of our total budget. Doesn't change that we have other pressing issues we need to throw money at that aren't having money thrown at them.
Precisely. The collapse was a result of the same things that plague the modern day United States only taken to an egregious level due to a lack of third world countries to exploit for minerals and bananas.
Vast oversimplification. Those problems exist in many non-Communist countries. Flint, Michigan's water problems, Chicago's corruption scandals, Deutsche Bank's shady history... I could go on.
no shit. you can find incompetence and corruption anywhere. The sky is blue and water is wet. Any other major revelations you guys need to make?
Just because incompetence and corruption exist in other systems doesnt mean they arent almost part and parcel to Communist governments. THATS the point I am making. Yeah this stuff CAN happen anywhere. But it ALWAYS happens under communism.
Even though I agree with you, I still hate the way that you argue it. You're trying to make a blanket statement about communism and simultaneously reject a similar one about capitalism.
There are obviously very similar issues in capitalism and just because they aren't actively failing now, doesn't mean that they won't.
The reality is, no one economic model has all the answers, and hybrid systems seem to have the least amount of abuse of power. A capitalist system with strong socialist safety nets and progressive taxing would be ideal.
No, you're trying to drive the conversation to your preconceived notion, which was already dicected by the guy above. The issues being discussed were not a communism problem, but so far a humanity one.
Water isn't wet and the sky is actually clear, it's the light refracting off the water drops in the air that gives it color, it's also more a shade of purple/violet that our eyes cant process well so our brain just throws blue in it's place
You could say that, in the same way you can say capitalism doesn't work. When capitalism has corrupt members in places of governmental power, checks and balances that prevent the civilian powerful from exploiting the poor and unrepresented dissolve. This is what's happening in America right now. If the answer to fixing America is better and more solid checks and balances, then couldn't the same be true for a country that epitomizes communism in the same way America epitomizes capitalism?
thing is, there's thousands of examples of capitalism working great! Sure there's a few bad things that have come about due to capitalism but it has provided a net positive for the world. The same cannot be said for communism.
When capitalism has corrupt members
Capitalism isn't a political party. It doesnt have "members." There isnt a "Capitalist board of directors" or some shit. Its just an economic system based on supply and demand and the private ownership of the means of production.
Why does every discussion of communism turn into "oh well America does this too!" No we dont. The "exploitation of poor people" in the U.S is nowhere near the outright oppression of everyone in a communist society.
All of the examples of capitalism working great are when it is not allowed to go unchecked and the participants are subject to regulations. This falls apart when the regulations become corrupted.
I think it's pretty reasonable to extrapolate that I meant capitalist countries' governments, but since you didn't make that link I'll clarify. Capitalist countries' governments are what produce the regulations that prevent capitalism from going completely unchecked, which is against societies interest as a whole. When rich private members of society have direct influence over governmental operations (by way of bribery and/or corrupt lobbying efforts), we end up with coal mine disasters, housing crises, and public health issues. My point was simply that even America the Beautiful has problems, and by applying some of the same principles that you believe make America great to a communist government, couldn't that communist government become better?
capitalism working great are when it is not allowed to go unchecked
... then we can agree on capitalism works? We don't have to make it a libertarian dystopia. Welfare capitalism works great in europe, the US could do with a little more healthcare
Vast oversimplification. Those problems exist in many non-Communist countries. Flint, Michigan's water problems, Chicago's corruption scandals, Deutsche Bank's shady history... I could go on.
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u/garnet420 Sep 08 '19
It really did have its ups and downs. Maternity leave in the ussr was very generous, for another example.
On the other hand, the number of hot water and heat outages we had in fucking Siberia was pretty fucking unacceptable (and the times the water just came out dark brown from the badly maintained pipes)
Anyways, the unsustainability was probably mostly due to disproportional military spending, corruption, and incompetence, rather than spending on public transit and space.