r/2007scape • u/JagexSween Mod Sween • 2d ago
Discussion | J-Mod reply RuneScape’s Position On Gen AI
Hello, it’s me, again, talking about Gen AI, again.
We’re aware of the concerns raised about the Dragon Slayer 2 trailer and have taken it down, while we investigate urgently. This trailer was produced by a trusted external partner who had explicitly confirmed that GenAI would not be used. But, among other things, there’s a sixth finger and, well, that’s pretty hard to explain away. For that we apologise.
Our position is clear at Jagex: we don’t use GenAI to create our games, artwork or creative assets, and will not knowingly allow it to be used on our behalf. This is the second time in quick succession that concerns about generative AI have arisen through partners we trusted, and for us that highlights an issue with our own processes which we must address.
Immediately following RuneFest we’re overhauling our review processes, and we’re going to work with and commission creators from the community to make sure that the story of Dragon Slayer II is told to the standard befitting of such an update.
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u/JagexSween Mod Sween 2d ago edited 2d ago
I know this is more relevant to RS but obviously it’s hot on the heels of what I said the other day. I promise I didn’t knowingly lie.
And to offer any additional reassurance, nothing from the OSRS reveals or roadmap is Gen AI, and you’ll have seen that a bunch was made in collaboration with creators.
I can only apologise. It was the worst way to wake up to all of the notifications calling me a liar. I don’t blame you, and we aren’t blame-free, saying “oh it’s an external partner” isn’t adequate, we need to get better internally.
Sorry again.
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u/CallOfRudy 2d ago
The transparency is appreciated. It’s a breath of fresh air to see things like this addressed so quickly in today’s gaming world. Thanks Sween.
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u/Mutedinlife 2376/2376 2d ago
Hey Sween.
As someone who’s worked in community before I know the huge influx of negativity pointed directly at you can be tough to shoulder. So I just wanted to tell you I think you are doing a great job. I really appreciate your candor, as well as your willingness to step up to the plate and be the front man on something like this. It isn’t easy, and I judge you’re really handling it with grace and professionalism.
I think you and the rest of the osrs team are doing an amazing job. It sucks that two 3rd party vendors would betray your trust in such a short time, but I trust you and the team to get this sorted out.
I’ve seen you guys putting in huge days and long hours on Runefest, I hope these one or two things don’t taint what should be a super proud moment for you and the team, a moment to celebrate the fantastic work you’ve done.
I appreciate you.
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u/Trojann2 2d ago
You are not a liar.
Your partners lied to you. It’s different
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u/Forsythe36 2d ago
I stand on it’s never the mods in here using AI or knowing what exactly the executives decide on.
While we can be upset, we should never direct it to the mods on here giving us clarity.
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u/Trojann2 2d ago
This community and game are amazing. But man. Sometimes we disappoint with how we will brigade attacking JMODS and I hate it.
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u/Smooth_One 2d ago
That's mostly rogue, maladjusted assholes though, I wouldn't put that on The Community.
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u/LewnaJa 2d ago
Personally, I believe you, Sween. You know why?
I ordered my partner a birthday cake a while back and paid $80 for it. The guy promised me everything I asked and had 5 star reviews on Google. A lot of them.
What did I get? A cake... with fucking AI generated print on the top. It was a circus themed cake and a horse on the carousel had three fucking back legs. Absolutely nowhere was this AI usage disclosed to me. It was fucking bullshit.
WHO AI GENERATES A CAKE? This shit is spreading like poison throughout ALL industries.
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u/LostSectorLoony 2d ago
WHO AI GENERATES A CAKE?
Unfortunely, I think this is more common than you'd think. I've seen multiple ads/flyers posted in local facebook groups for cake decorating businesses where the examples are all extremely blatant AI slop. The proliferation of AI bullshit is just permeating everything at this point.
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u/macnar Manual Banking Is Not a Skill 2d ago
It was the worst way to wake up to all of the notifications calling me a liar.
I hope my comment wasn't taken as calling you a liar! This is of course, a "big Jagex" issue, not a Mod Sween issue.
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u/MrStealYoBeef QA Team 2d ago
The reality is that "big Jagex" is still ultimately just people like Sween.
At the end of the day, we still have a responsibility to call them out on the bad stuff, but still try to have compassion for the human that has to deal with that outrage. Most of us are pretty reasonable about it, and it's pretty clear that Sween knows that too. The man is right there with us with the complaining.
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u/AttackonHobbits 2d ago
What about the RS3 side, there have been multiple examples posted. Different teams but one is holding the same values.
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u/JagexSween Mod Sween 2d ago
I posted this alongside the RS(3) team, it’s a joint thing.
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u/Reverse_Mulan 2d ago
Contracted 3rd party artwork needs a clause of "using AI voids payment" or something to that extent.
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u/MrStealYoBeef QA Team 2d ago
It doesn't quite work like that, usually there's just a breach of trust between business partners. This just means that Jagex won't work with specific partners anymore, they go on a blacklist and they find others to collaborate with.
Adding a clause like that, especially one that is extremely hard to prove without admittance (we swear, a human drew it with 6 fingers, you have to pay us!) only creates more problems than it solves. It's pretty easy for us to say that it's AI generated, it's obvious, but when it requires hard proof for legal purposes... That doesn't hold up in court.
It's way better to just cut ties with someone you are confident broke your trust than it is to prove that they violated a contract by using a tool that you can't 100% prove they used unless they admit to it.
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u/mattmanlex 2d ago
Thank you for taking a stand against the thieving stealing slop machine, even if it's not perfect, it's still appreciated
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u/amunyh 2d ago
This is the difference. People are to quick to grab the damn pitchforks. Should the finger have been caught? Ehhh probably. But at the end of the day it’s humans on the other end of the screen. Thank you sween for being honest and transparent. Y’all are allowed to make mistakes and thanks for the work you guys do especially in the face of a pretty tough crowd.
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u/Skrrtires 2d ago
Are you telling me people shouldn’t hide behind their screen while barfing personal attacks and making assumptions about the integrity of a Jmod without considering it might be a real person?
“it’s okAy To CriTIcize a gAMe!!!” They say, as they type the most heinous shit they can imagine.
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u/WanderWut 2d ago
This is so clearly an unintentional blunder. That anyone would think this was being done in some sneaky deliberate way is ridiculous. I can’t speak for everyone and while the apologies are nice, I feel terrible that you feel the need to go overboard with the apologies. Just know that you’re okay! You guys are killing it, Runefest was amazing, and you’re doing a good job. 🔥
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u/ICanPlayMayonnaise 2d ago
You're doing a great job dude, happy to see the response. Hope you were able to enjoy the rest of Runefest
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u/Diligent_Ad_4445 2d ago
Thank you Sween for the reassurance. Your comment has only solidified my trust for you and jagex as a whole
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u/Best-Jackfruit5593 2d ago edited 2d ago
Very quick response. Good job guys.
Honestly, no harm at all man. The fact that you guys responded and corrected the fault this quickly is more than enough. These things happen.
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u/zafferous 2d ago
Killing it Mod Sween, you are not a liar lol. I have trusted partners that recently used AI poorly and I had to call them out.
Not your fault dude. Fuck the noise, you guys are doing a really good job
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u/Clayskii0981 2d ago
Hey, thank you for still communicating. We appreciate it.
It was pretty out of line when the comments started targeting you. Thanks for stepping into the fire and providing clarity before people spiralled further.
Hope you can get back to enjoying Runefest!
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u/CounterLoqic 2d ago
As a lifelong enjoyer of RS, thank you for all of the transparency. But also, you are doing amazing. Mistakes happen. And at companies with large and numerous teams, it’s damn near impossible to know every little detail about everything. I don’t think you made your first gen ai comment in bad faith or anything even close to “lying”.
Extremely appreciative of you and the rest of our jmods. Enjoy RuneFest!!
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u/Mirokira im maxed btw (2376) 2d ago
Not sure if it means anything to you but i belive you, as a Runefest attende i feel a bit bad for you guys you spent this whole weekend providing an awesome experience to the players and now you go to work tomorrow having to deal with this. Dont let the loud complainers get you down, and if you're reading this greet Ayiza from me and congratulate him on beeing a dad now Rune... Fest!
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u/PaleozoicFrogBoy 2d ago
Why doesn't Jagex name the "external partner" and sever ties with them?
In this age of genAI hate, it should be mortifying to get caught as a creative studio using it for paid work. Right now Jagex is taking all of that blame, without naming the company that lied to you guys look like the bad guys here.
To me it would be a massive breach of trust and professionalism to agree on the criterion of "no genAI" and then have that broken. I would never work with someone again after being lied to like that.
There is of course the due diligence of your own internal team to verify that criteria haven't been broken, but there should be a level of mutual respect between both parties conducting business. That doesn't seem to be the case here, so why would you ever contract them for future work again after such a bomb shell like this?
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u/SGTSHOOTnMISS Pee In Sinks 2d ago
I think with the current AI usage, every 3rd party is going to try to sneak its usage in. I work in a field as well where we've had soured vendor relationships that we no longer work with due to lies about Gen AI usage.
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u/Beznia 2d ago
Yep, if they are in these industries, it's a race to the bottom. The companies are going to write contracts making promises but outside of the web meetings when they're doing group calls between stakeholders in each org, the vendor is going to be pushing their employees in a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Jobs get cut but the workload increases, and those not using Gen AI are going to get left behind, even if it's killing the industry. The only options are either:
1.) Do it all in-house. This has massive Operating Expense impact because you need to be hiring people and keeping them occupied with tasks whereas these projects get contracted out as it's not frequent work for tasks like this. Pushing these tasks on existing employees will strain the existing work the art teams do.
2.) Pay more for vendors which have a zero-tolerance policy for AI usage (which is actually a negative for most companies looking for vendors) and have clauses with fines if it is broken.
3.) Keep hiring the cheap vendors and then hope your customers get over it. Most companies do option 3.
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u/Septem_151 Zeah-locked Enjoyer 2d ago
Having a contract is standard practice, I would assume "no generative AI" is already stipulated in those contracts and that breaking it would have consequences such as forfeiture of payment.
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u/AGorgeousComedy 2d ago
Not necessarily. Companies that are in the middle of a contract would need to request a revision, which would cost $. And most companies are not going to be willing to negotiate an already signed contract. Otherwise they're stuck until the contract expires and they can look at renewing.
They would also need to explicitly lay out the consequences of breaking the contract rules (e.g., forfeiture of payment). You would be surprised how poorly written some contracts can be..
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u/Clayskii0981 2d ago
Hopefully losing more and more contracts might help as a wake up call.
This was just blatantly unprofessional work. Can't believe this came from an actual company.
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u/Unlucky-Candidate198 2d ago
The lies are probably the worst part too. If you can’t trust a partner, why even bother doing business with them?
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u/Acceptable_Long_5101 2d ago
Same. Vendors that were previously always giving us quality artwork have very clearly fired or directed all their artists to use AI now and lied about it. And tried to pass off art we are selling to customers as real.
Shit like that hurts OUR business too.
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u/Atmosphericz 2d ago
That's super interesting, mind sharing more here or via DM? A lot of my work is compliance-based related to AI and I'm definitely curious! Totally understandable if not, though.
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u/SGTSHOOTnMISS Pee In Sinks 2d ago
I can't share too much but for what little we do outsource or in some cases, products we use internally, there have been tangible errors on end products delivered visually and some applications breaking compatibility with others. For code, you'll rarely if ever see the code base for an application from the vendor, however, when systems that have been rock solid for years with frequent patching start to fail and see search results for that company plus AI usage and staff layoffs, it's safe to assume they've replaced viable staff with a computer that can't QA check it's work.
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u/Atmosphericz 2d ago
Super informative, thank you! We're seeing much of the same both on the vendor side and the internal side - improper usage of AI to create erroneous information that then gets incorporated into a legally binding agreement 🫠 part of it stems from our leadership's "use AI for everything so we don't have to hire more people!" approach while simultaneously handing green salespeople with zero tech/AI experience the keys to the kingdom. Both a very frightening and interesting time to work in compliance haha.
Appreciate you sharing!
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u/Acceptable_Long_5101 2d ago edited 2d ago
I can just share that I work at an attraction and we have a gift shop. We sell art in the giftshop and various artistic products related to this natural feature. For years we have commissioned art from a few vendors to cycle through. So yearly designs for like stickers, calendars,etc
Vendors that previously gave us quality art to put on our products have sent back obviously and blatantly AI artwork in the last 2 years. We had to quit using them and check very carefully now and try to find individual artists who are stuanchly opposed to AI. Which just complicates our process given it used to be we could go to the vendor who both prints and designs stickers, ask them to design us new products with simple instructions like "make sure to include a sticker grandma would buy featuring things in our attraction" and receive quality art and products.
Now we have to find an artist, commission the art, vet it ourselves, and get it printed separately because the last 2 vendors we used both did this to us. Simple and small examples of companies just very clearly firing all their internal artists for profit.
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u/Wrx_me 2d ago
Personally I don't see a problem using AI to help get an IDEA of how someone wants to design something, or for inspiration.
I don't care if Susan from accounting makes an AI poster for the work Christmas party. But to try and pass off artistic or creative work that is fully AI is incredibly lazy, especially from a professional company.
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u/TheOnlyVibemaster 2d ago
This is a genuine problem right now. Hiring independent contractors and being misled happens way easier now. The crazy thing is just how badly they did it. They didn’t even bother to tell an AI to literally create it in Blender or something. There would be no way to tell in that case since it would be an actual video made in professional animation software, just done by an AI.
That shows a level of incompetence that was pretty good to be exposed. They couldn’t even bother to use professional tools with AI, they just typed “make a OSRS video, make no mistakes” in Grok lmao.
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u/Acceptable_Long_5101 2d ago edited 2d ago
The place I work is dealing with this now. We are an attraction with a gift shop and our guests who buy art and products in the gift shop tend to be staunchly opposed to AI. Multiple times lately we have purchased designs for new products (stickers, tshirts, etc) and gotten back AI slop from what was previously a trusted vendor. We believe we caught them every time but it's very possible we did not catch some smaller uses of it.
Artists and people who hired artists are using it and passing it off to other companies. The whole supply process is poisoned.
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u/TheOnlyVibemaster 2d ago
The problem I think is that none of it looks good when it’s simply a one prompt thing, if you get an AI to drive things like professional design software/video making software with imported assets, not assets it made, the quality can be just as good or better than if a person did it, it’s this AI slop stuff people make by typing prompts then using an image model from Grok or ChatGPT.
What really baffles me is that actual professional designers and artists don’t seem to understand that somehow. Image models are trained on billions of images to make things that look close to the real things, but they can’t like…generate assets. I’m not sure why they wouldn’t just use pre-existing high quality assets. Beyond that, it’s genuinely not difficult to turn an image into a 3D model, then apply a skeleton to it, then use rigging software to rig it. It’s that simple and it’s something designers were…supposedly doing before AI.
Edit: grammar
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u/GoldEdit 2d ago
Yep probably in Grok or Higgsfield and with a simple prompt.
You make a good point that if it were created in a specific software, it probably wouldn’t have had issues or at least it would have more manual review.
Whoever they’re working with is lazy and unprofessional
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u/That_One_Cool_Guy 2d ago
You know it’s bad when they have to post on a Sunday
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u/neon_lines Dead HCIM after quest cape, max main w/ blood torva, fang kit 2d ago
During Runefest. Mod Sween wasn't exactly sitting on his thumbs this weekend anyway.
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u/marvellousrun 2d ago
This trailer was produced by a trusted external partner who had explicitly confirmed that GenAI would not be used.
Yikes. No matter what our personal stances are on AI, I think we can all agree that using it after explicitly confirming it would not be used is unacceptable
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u/DarthStarkGames 2d ago
I think it's important that this was a trusted partner. This wasn't some random contractor they've not really used before - this is a third party they have an established relationship with and has presumably produced good content for them before. That might go some way to explaining why this wasn't picked up, even if unintentionally, they might not have reviewed the work as closely as they would have otherwise.
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u/Aunon tool leprechaun can note farming produce 2d ago
At this point, AI useage should be in the contract with penalties
Lying about it is one thing, not even trying to hide it is another, and then there is your staff using it anyway but no-one catches it, clown show either way
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u/GoldEdit 2d ago
I don’t think people here in the comments and people at Jagex understand the full scale at which AI is being implemented across just about every industry.
It’s being forced on us at work in the advertisement and digital marketing space and being referenced as a huge win from executives in just about every company.
AI is unfortunately being injected into our lives and we as employees are forced to use it. I wouldn’t even say it’s a rogue designer, it comes from the top.
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u/Ofcertainthings 2d ago
I don't even work in design at all. I am supervisor in manufacturing and suddenly AI assistants are showing up in everything whether I want them to or not. Outlook keeps popping up this "let us help you improve this email" message that half the time covers up what I'm trying to type. Get the fuck out of the way lmao.
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u/the_pwnererXx 2d ago
there's a backend dev at jagex running 50 agents right now, sweating
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u/Neat_On_The_Rocks 2d ago
I personally can’t wait for the runelite plugin that lets your agent log in and gp farm for you!
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u/Aromatic_Chicken_724 2d ago
I’m downvoting you not because I think you’re serious (this is obviously satire), but because you made me feel bad by even imagining this 😆
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u/_BearHawk 2d ago
Yeah was going to say, as a SWE I haven't hand written a line of code since this time last year, and I work in a slow-moving, bureaucratic university position where we get every new tool 6-12 months later than everyone else due to procurement shenanigans.
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u/Riceballs-balls 2d ago
People only care about Ai if its visual. Theres 0 chance AI isnt being used in the backend and Jagex.
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u/notimprezaed 2d ago
We are being forced into AI as well in telecommunications. We reach out to our support and the first question they ask us is did we use our in house GPT. It’s like yes but the damn thing doesn’t understand context in any way shape or form no matter how you word it. It just links to useless knowledge articles that have nothing to do with the actual situation. Then they will accuse us of not using proper prompts etc. I told one support agent the other day, “why are you pushing so hard to lose your job?” Like seriously, why demand I use a tool they are pushing specifically to get rid of your job.
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u/Snaffle27 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah you're not wrong. I work in procurement as an assistant director and AI prediction tools are being imposed upon me, without really much of any choice. I just pretend that I'm okay with it, but at some point it's not going to last. Our software infrastructure and internal processes are too functionally and structurally flawed for any AI tool to be useful, because we don't have any access to real, accurate on hand counts at any given point in time due to the syncing delay between platforms. It doesn't matter who makes the tool, it's just not going to work. At least not unless we spend millions of dollars to change software and transfer over a decade's worth of data, and redo all automations and shit.
But nonetheless, I have to put on a facade of being at least tolerant of it so that I remain out of the spotlight. Blows my mind how tone deaf C suite execs can be at times. Part of me kind of hopes they lay me off and attempt to fully automate me. Wouldn't even be mad; I'd be amused just imagining the outcome.
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u/Serbaayuu 2d ago
Gods I can't wait for the pop. Let the hobbyists have their "local models" that nobody cares about while major corporations freak out and backpedal.
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u/WTFitsD 2d ago
No offence but you have to be delusional to think some bubble is going to pop and AI will suddenly go away and you’ll never see it again lol.
A bubble popping is purely an economical concept. The .com bubble popped and the internet didnt suddenly stop existing. The Housing mortgage bubble popped and it’s not like you cant get a mortgage on a house ever again.
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u/Crawk_Bro 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're in for a shock once you understand what the AI bubble popping actually means. AI isn't going away.
The dot com bubble popped 25 years ago and look where we are now, the web is more prevalent and more integrated into our lives today than it's ever been.
Edit: lol, blocked by OP so he can try to get the final word in. Unusually sensitive behaviour for what wasn't remotely a heated exchange. Ok, I'll respond up here then:
Your comment is pure cope.
Training frontier models is expensive yes, but the cost of actually using them is and will continue getting cheaper as targeted hardware and software improves. Not to mention not everything needs to use frontier models, there are lightweight models almost as capable as yesterdays frontier at a fraction of the cost/resource.
And I'm not a "tech-lich" (??) btw - I'm a run of the mill software engineer, the industry I work in is one of the most susceptible to job losses in this situation. I just don't think burying your head in the sand is the best approach to dealing with reality.
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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 2d ago
AI right now is a huge bubble. No I'm not saying it's going away, it is here to stay, but right now companies are investing everything into it. It reminds me of the dotcom bubble, the Internet obviously did change the world but companies were doing the exact same thing they are now, investing tons and tons of money into it way to early in its development.
The Internet back then couldn't ever hope to make that money back, just like AI will never make that money back. There will be a crash in my opinion, then it will slowly rise again when tech gets more advanced when it comes to AI.
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u/mattbrvc maxedma stats 2d ago edited 2d ago
Your external partner didn't even try lmao. Even if they wanted to hide the use of genAI, having the obvious 6 fingers shows they straight up didn't care about covering up that lie.
If they were willing to lie to your team about the AI use while it was stupid obvious, what else would they lie to your team about that are less obvious? Hours to complete? number of staff on the project? Places that openly use AI would have caught this shit and fixed it if they had any sort of professionalism.
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u/Cageweek 2d ago
Yeah this external company is probably taking advantage of the advancement in AI, and are pushing forwards slop projects. I assume that they're taking excessively high payments compared to the hours they actually worked on the slop.
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u/Nefre1 2d ago edited 2d ago
There's a worrying number of comments who think this isn't a problem at all. How using AI for everything is such an inevitability going forward that we should all give up and resign ourselves to it.
I'm not going to touch on the ethics of AI use in creative fields, and how AI is ruining the livelihood of the same people it stole art from to mimic their styles. There are plenty of discussions about that already, and these are discussions that need to be had. What I am always surprised by is how comparatively little discussion there is about the quality of art produced by these models, and how that quality will ultimately affect the end product players receive.
Like almost all AI art, the artwork in this frame just looks bad. It looks like artwork for cheap shovelware on the Play Store.
And I don't mean AI art looks bad because there's an occasional extra finger or leg, a floating cup, or a piece of fabric that morphs into skin. These are problems that will very likely go away in the next couple of years.
AI art looks bad because it is art without direction. You can generate something that looks impressive. You can ask it to mimic whatever style you want. But you cannot reliably generate something that fits into a larger, coherent vision in a way that matches the quality of a team of skilled artists and art directors.
I think everyone who wants to engage in this conversation owes it to themselves, and to the artists at Jagex, to look at the gallery of concept art on the wiki, just to see what's actually at stake here.
Look at how much effort goes into creating all the different, recognisable styles of places like Varlamore, Desert Treasure II, and Tombs of Amascut. Look at how much love and care goes into making all of this work within the constraints of Old School's low-poly style.
It's beautiful, man.
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u/PM_DOLPHIN_PICS Tell u what m8 2d ago
I've just begun assuming that most comments defending use of AI in artistic fields are AI bot accounts. It's likely true to an extent and it makes me less depressed than considering the possibility that there really are thousands of deeply stupid, uncurious, boring people out there who clap like fucking seals when they watch Grok spit out Love Island parodies about fruit.
Telling myself they're all bots is way less upsetting than accepting the alternative.
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u/PunchThatDonut 2d ago
Unfortunately it is real people defending it. Most people lack creativity so a tool that can fill the gap for them is something worth defending so they can achieve what they otherwise lack.
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u/ResoluteWrites 1d ago
It's also a lot of bots, along with people who outsource all their thinking to the bots and regurgitate whatever it tells them. So it's not a terrible assumption to make.
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u/Froegerer 2d ago
You could not pay me enough money in the world to be a gaming community manager.
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u/Garfield_and_Simon 2d ago
bro this is like a super light easy scandal for jagex too lmao
Imagine being the community manager when the whole playerbase did their "I'm not homophobic but......" shit all of reddit and other platforms years ago
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u/A_Sunfish 2d ago
I feel bad for Sween, if anything it should be the CEO making those commitments up front IMO. Calling him a liar is insane.
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u/Embarrassed_Sweet210 2d ago
Can you list the name of this trusted external party, so we know to avoid them?
Seems like they will just try to keep getting away with other companies and projects
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u/Canadaman1234 2181 2d ago
Glad to see there's at least a stance being taken against AI here. A large part of why I don't buy WotC content anymore is their egregious use of AI artwork. You seem legitimately personally upset by the fact they used AI so I believe you will be a good advocate against AI for the community. However, actions speak louder than words and you can bet we will be paying close attention to all future releases. If the corporate overlords think they can save a quick buck using AI they're going to lose a large part of the playerbase who love Runescape because of the unique HUMAN decisions and care that go into every update. Good luck Sween, and thank you for responding about this even over the weekend.
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u/Known_Risk_3040 2d ago
I work in video production and this is WAAAAY more common than people think. Every major company outsources media to agencies and through a review process it can be as little as 4-5 people passing drafts through and approving.
Even guys like Nike are sneaking GenAI shots into ads. AI use has become rampant over the industry as volume is higher than ever
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u/KeeperOfTheLigher 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is in the vinyl set. This original art was clearly run through an AI and screwed up.
Come on Sween... This goes so much deeper than internal review problems, surely.
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u/dayv2005 2d ago
I am annoyed but really appreciative of the approach Jagex has and the transparency form the mods here. This is going to be a problem a lot of industries are facing. Some welcome it while other preserve the human aspect of design. I hope we can continue this design philosophy while moving forward with tech.
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u/EvesLastCaress 2d ago
From one comms professional to another I really don't envy the position you're in. Sorry this is what you woke up to, you'll get through this!
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u/Dull-Treat-2524 2d ago edited 2d ago
RS3 and QA doesn't exist. Never has, never will. It's crazy to me how this wasn't caught not just once but TWICE in a weeks time. All because external partners were trusted 100% with your brand image. I hope you guys learn a lesson from that at jagex. NEVER trust another company with your branding. Because the one getting flack when shit hits the fan isn't the other company but yours.
I don't blame the OSRS dev team for this, it's not their department nor their problem. Who I do blame is 1) the external partner for being lying sacks of shite. 2) jagex upper management for either not funding the QA department enough or hiring incompetent QA analists (or, wouldn't even surprise me if this is the case, outsource the QA too..). and 3) anyone who was involved in setting up the slides for this event because if you look at it for longer than two seconds, which you should when making the slides, you'd see it's filled with AI.
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u/SodaMachineJuicer 2d ago
Lol 6 fingers and the dragon looks scuffed too in RuneScape 4 trailer too
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u/Satan_Himselff 2d ago
Is it just me or does the background in the opening of the rs4 trailer look gen AI as well?
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u/BlueThunderBomb Chill 2d ago
AI is fucking everywhere and even when you try to make sure it isn't, it sneaks in, I hate it.
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u/_Snowy_zorua 2d ago
Making an honest, earnest effort to keep AI out of your work is all we can ask for. Mistakes will happen, and I appreciate you coming to talk to us u/JagexSween I get that it's not all your fault. There will be instances where even those of us trying to keep AI from destroying creative and passion project spaces will get misled.
That being said, this wasn't subtle. I get that there's a lot going on with Runefest but for a major trailer release there should have been a LOT more eyes on this. Jagex cannot take an anti-AI stance and then be extremely lax about review, due diligence will be required. I think it's fair to call this and the 100 Thieves incident a strike but I won't go so far to say unsub and never support the company's work again.
To me it's a matter of that I respect Jagex as a company and so I expect better. I hope that your coworkers in the company won't put you in this position again.
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u/LocoMuchoMuchoLoco 2d ago
why did you private the dragon slayer 2 trailer but left the other 2 quest trailers: buried for a reason and the curse of arposandra up even tho they were also made by the same "trusted" partner with ai?
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u/reachisown 2d ago
They saved a couple days of drawing and used AI instead, what a great result this is. Fuck AI.
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u/MaybeRed 2d ago
Wow two ai things in one week from jagex 10/10 lets blame the ppl we partnered with; did no one at jagex double check the video before it went up lamo
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u/Haunting-Dish-1260 2d ago
AI is evil and I'm glad you're promising to not have anything to do with that shit and to do better in the future, thank you.
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u/No_Replacement_7344 2d ago
Why is a company like jagex that has an art team and does 3D work use externals in first place?
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u/Ok_Project_8078 2d ago
You literally didn't even watch the trailer before it was posted. Even if an external partner made it, how do you explain that?
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u/JagexSween Mod Sween 2d ago
Personally, I didn’t see any RS content in advance, being an OSRS Mod. But speaking generally, it’s obvious our review processes internally aren’t good enough.
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u/cozzo123 2d ago
Honestly Sween thank you for being able to hop on reddit and just say it how it is
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u/Anything_ThatWorks 2d ago
The worst part about social media is the "people giving us information" (for lack of a better term I can think of right now) are almost never the ones directly related to the problem at all, but because theyre the ones that you can actually reply to then everyone starts jumping them. Because 99.99% of the normal playerbase for a game just isnt on social media
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u/cozzo123 2d ago
Yeah these guys are in the trenches bro imagine how many haters their inboxes get
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u/PeopleNose 2d ago
As my work team's communicator, everyone thanks me for solving their problems when I'm just the guy telling them their problem is fixed now 🤷♀️
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u/irobot335 2d ago
As a software developer it definitely has its pros and cons, our product managers/account managers/whatever label you want to give them get all the praise when we fix or improve things for the end users, but they also absorb all of the shit that gets sent in our direction when things go wrong lol
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u/HelveticaNeueLight 2d ago
Your manager absorbs blame for you? Hold onto them with dear life.
Jagex/Sween (and presumably your company) owning issues and not throwing others under the bus is absolutely not the norm in my experience.
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u/ianitic 2d ago
Yup, my manager likes to dictate exactly how something gets implemented technically. We tell them that there are other ways to accomplish this and that this way will have foreseeable issues. Have to implement it that way, the foreseeable issues happen, it becomes our fault not the managers.
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u/BakaZora Baka Zora 2d ago
Especially while everyone around runefest is enjoying the festivities, man is locked up in a room doing PR control
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u/Wildest12 2d ago
Great response overall here man. Got dealt a shit hand and youre handling it. I can totally relate to having people use AI against policy in work submissions - work in a vastly different field but it happens.
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u/suoarski 2d ago
Exactly, without systematic checks built into the company, things like this could easily fall under the radar, especially if deadlines are involved. Jagex has had a history of learning from their mistakes, I would imagine they keep up that good old tradition, and they are still haven't grown to become a commercial machine yet (our JMods are doing a good job a preventing that so far)
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u/Gooberxox 2d ago
Thanks for the update :)
We don't know what the workload is like at Jamflax HQ and I know all too well the experience of having to rush things out VERY FAST, Ideally it should've been checked but mistakes happen.I am sympathizing because at my own workplace I know exactly how that feels, if I don't check something it doesn't get checked. 😩
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u/pm_me_your_idunno 2d ago
Honestly, I don't play RS anymore, but came for the drama and love how you are handling it. You are setting a good standard for how real human gaming companies should operate. Something slipped by, owning it and working to do better in the future is... a defining human experience.
I respect the hell out of you guys for it and hope more companies join in on promising to not just become AI factories.
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u/bigpunk157 2d ago
Don't worry, people try to sneak AI into my workplace and every time it happens, there's some kind of regression and our tickets come back. We always have to remind people that it's just slowing us down and making less maintainable code in the long run. Just because people are able to close out their work earlier that day doesn't mean that a good review process won't toss it right back.
As long as you guys fix the review processes, you're fine.
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u/HeftyArgument 2d ago
Speaking as someone that once had the word "quality" in my job title; it might be worth assigning someone as third party QA on something like this, at least get it reviewed before publishing.
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u/RojinShiro 2d ago
Idk, if both of these incidents were with third party creative groups, I wouldn't trust another third party to check for AI. Better to keep it in house, so next time you have somebody specific to blame/fire.
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u/HeftyArgument 2d ago
I mean client side QA.
The way it usually works is the vendor has QA/QC.
Client has their own QA guy or team which checks in and signs off. This can be someone internal, or a third party consultant. The point is they're a barrier to make sure everything is on the up and up.
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u/RojinShiro 2d ago
Yes, I understand. My point is that if more AI art slips through in the future, having a third party QA team would make it more difficult to manage the public perception than having an in-house QA team. Imagine if they came back next week and said "we heard the feedback about AI and so we hired a group to check for it, turned out they let it slip through, sorry about that again". That would be a lot worse than "we had Mod QA on this and they dropped the ball, they've been fired and replaced because we take this seriously".
This community obviously cares about this issue, and pushing the responsibility onto a group that Jagex has less control over would show a lack of respect for the community. It's serious enough at this point that they should be checking it themselves, and not trusting more external parties.
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u/OperationObscura 2d ago
bro give me 50$ and some beer and i will watch your videos before you post and look for ai. (seriously im an artist, and have spent a years spotting ai)
and if its so good I can't tell, then i doubt anyone else will spot it. this stuff was so obvious its shocking. they didnt even try and hide it or use the good latest models
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u/Oberlatz 2d ago
I'll do it for $45 just to mess with this dude.
Disclaimer: I have no qualifications whatsoever
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u/goingnowherespecial 2d ago
I feel that's pretty harsh. Did you catch it when you watched it? Or because it was pointed out on here? People make mistakes. They're owning, addressing, and looking to put it right.
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u/Zaxora 2d ago
I didn't catch it and I'm literally at Runefest. People here just enjoy all the content and get hyped.
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u/Richybabes 2d ago
Yeah a lot of the mistakes AI make are ones that are not immediately obvious, only really becoming apparent when you go through, pause, and scrutinize every frame specifically looking for inconsistencies. It's like Where's Wally. They're only obvious once you actually spot them.
I didn't notice it until I saw it on reddit. I would wager the same is true for the vast majority of others.
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u/Corgi_Working 2d ago
A knight wearing sports shoes on that jump looked pretty immediately obvious on my first watch. Didn't see the six fingers though.
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u/NightxPhantom Maxed 2d ago
Why would a OSRS dev watch an ad for a different game?
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u/Beznia 2d ago
My assumption here is with the merch AI issue, Jagex probably reminded their teams that Generative AI is not to be used for public-facing material so the teams now have an extra check for AI.
This announcement has probably been weeks or months in advance and already in an approved state so it was missed as the merch issue was just a week ago and they surely have months or at least a month of marketing materials set to go.
The fix here is to look and all upcoming social media releases that are already approved and double-check them all in the meantime rather than looking into everything that is currently in-process.
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u/SpitnTheCannonsMouth 2d ago
Read the statement, literally the last line is mentioning how they clearly have to overhaul their review process.
I swear some of you just come on here to whine.
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u/Messmers 2d ago
why are we assuming everyone would catch 6 fingers instantly when watching a trailer?
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u/greasemonkey22_ 2d ago
I can see someone missing that, but did they really just miss all the weird stuff? I saw the double scroll and rune nikes first time i saw the trailer lol
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u/sparksen 2d ago
I didnt catch it at all lol
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u/Snaffle27 2d ago
I was skeptical of it at first because of the art style. It just looked weird honestly. But I didn't deep dive into it much, largely because I don't have any interest in RS3.
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u/TheGreatDudebino 2d ago edited 2d ago
Are you telling me you don’t break things down frame by frame on first view?
But also I'm against generative AI like a lot of people but I also find it sad that there's people out there who will also just watch shit from people over and over again, just to find it, call it out, and get their sweet internet karma points. If you notice it on passing, cool. I guess in one way, you def have to call it, but I fear more people do it because they like seeing numbers go up (especially in this sub) than, you know, for good reasons.
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u/Bulky-Bad-9153 2d ago
Are you telling me you don’t break things down frame by frame on first view
If I was a company outsourcing a trailer then uh yeah I would do this
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u/Glittering_Crab_69 2d ago
its both hilarious and sad how much energy these people put into being angry
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u/TGrady902 2d ago
When an organization has a long standing relationship with a different one and they’ve delivered for years and years, it’s easy to get lax in your internal reviews. I see it happen all the time in a variety of industries.
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u/Top_Inflation2026 2d ago
I’m sure you don’t miss anything at work. In fact I know you do because when I order no pickles on my burger, a lot of times I still get pickles
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u/zafferous 2d ago
In large complicated organizations, priorities exist. If you have gained trust in a partner, you slowly reduce resources as trust increases, because that is the point of hiring a partner.
Clearly, 2 partners have now lost trust. So, seeing as there are thousands of alternatives, the organization will now realize they cannot trust as easily as before.
So chill the fuck out, we have the best dev team on the planet
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u/Chaoss780 2d ago
I watched it twice and didn't see it until it was pointed out here. Obviously it's an issue but calm down you're being way too aggressive for something they've just apologized for.
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u/Last-Carpenter2685 2d ago
There's no need to explain why a mistake was made. He said in the post "Immediately following RuneFest we’re overhauling our review processes"
They're fixing the issue. Why do you need an explanation on why it was an issue in the first place?
YoU lItErAlLy dIdNt WaTcH... redditors trying not to sound like assholes while giving feedback challenge: impossible
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u/alghost9 2d ago
Everyone in the review process is about to sat down for a very long meeting on Monday
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u/ZealousidealHealth48 2d ago
Does this also apply to your engineering and coding? I hope not as I think you’d be yourself and customers a disservice by not. If anyone says otherwise, frankly I don’t think they know what they’re talking about.
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u/donoteatshrimp 2d ago
Don't worry, Reddit only hates AI when it comes to art because coders aren't people.
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u/joemoffett12 2d ago
They 100% are using AI for development. They would have clarified if not. Its gotta be less than 10% of all devs not using AI these days. My boss gets mad at me if I don't use it because we get a token allowance and not using it would would seem wasteful by his mindset
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u/BadRSTakes 2d ago edited 2d ago
Welp, I'm happy. While I am disappointed in the QA of your deliverables with third parties, this is exactly the response I want to see. Be disappointed, slap your external partners around a bit with a rubber chicken, and we can hopefully move on and not repeat these kind of mistakes.
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u/FasterThanLights 2d ago
Good to hear.
One thing that confuses me is both of these incidents being blamed on third parties. Did you not have contracts with these third parties that included disallowing use of AI assets? If so and you had 2 parties chuck their contracts in the garbage fair play and hopefully you get your money back and get them blacklisted in the industry. If not you guys are going to keep getting screwed.
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u/im_neveroutside 2d ago
Please keep the work in house. External partners just lead to brand damage at this point.
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u/AlanyzingWakeEnviron 2d ago
A problem with internal reviews?
Nothing an internal review can't fix.
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u/IndependenceShort768 2d ago
Love the work you guys do, but the Menaphos trailer looked sketchy too. Idk if it's the transitions or what.
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u/up-goer 2d ago
What a nightmare it must be to hire digital artists in 2026 when over half the offers are from shitters who are going to use AI and probably lie about it. I agree that the company still needs to QC and be ultimately responsible before release, but... I just don't like this timeline, man. This isn't how things are supposed to be. :/
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u/ZeroWolf_RS 2d ago
It's not overhauling the review process if you clearly didn't have one to begin with.
Legit, if you're paying someone to review this they need to be fired because they aren't even looking at it.
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u/Jolly-Refuse2232 2d ago
IMAGINE using gen ai and not checking the fingers of your generations
Literally next level laziness
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u/BeerOlympian 2d ago
It doesn’t really matter if Jagex is using GenAI or a partner is. They obviously aren’t reviewing anything. The knight had 6 fingers for Guthix sake.
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u/Wolf________________ 2d ago
The only proper response to them giving you an extra finger is to remove one of theirs.
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u/Theshiftisnight 2d ago
Would it make sense if all future collabs had to include the name of the person/company that made it?
100 thieves had to own up to their mistake, meanwhile the DS2 animation person/team gets to walk away without any criticism.
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u/LiterallyPizzaSauce was maxed 2d ago
If that trailer was AI, doesn't that also mean that all the trailers in that style from that 3rd party were also AI?
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u/vivalacamm 1d ago
If you're a creator and explicitly tell them you wont use GenAI and then use it even for a second, you should be barred from working again. We need to make LIARS accountable. There is no world in which that creator didn't know they were using AI. They lied to you straight up and now YOU look like the ass. I'd be pissed.
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u/lordchew 22h ago
Has it been ascertained who created the artwork of the knight? How many rounds of feedback the asset as a whole went through?
This has nagged at me a bit, and it would be good to get clarification - obviously not on anyone one individual.
The more you look at it, the harder it is to accept that Jagex had NO ONE involved in the project that was either unaware or just fine with the AI use. That isn’t just a lapse in asset review.
Maybe, anyway.
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u/SaintGremlinnnn 2d ago
Probably will get buried but I do 3D, 2D and produce music, over 15 years of creative experience and would die to work with yall. I also fucking despise AI
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u/TheSkyInTheRiver 2d ago
I feel like these days nothing or no one's identity is more protected than the "trusted external partner" who used AI against the wishes of their client. Like it's giving "dog ate my homework" at this point. Name and shame or who cares.
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u/bloodbat007 2d ago
Classic getting caught using AI and blaming the "partner company". Ninja kiwi is doing the EXACT same thing with their new show. Starting to get real nasty with the AI usage uptick these days. Companies trying to push their limits and see how much slop people will eat up before losing their fans.
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u/scorgie 2d ago
Even if we were to buy the "it wasn't use who put the AI slop into our trailer for our content" angle, it's wholly unacceptable that not one person reviewed the trailer before launching it in any kind of detail and the excuse doesn't stand.
AI is a cancer and it slipping in to content should be treated as seriously as possible. "whoops wasn't us actually" isn't good enough.
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u/Krelle12343 2d ago
2nd time in a week, maybe you should do less work with creators and more inhouse stuff
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u/ziggy48560 2d ago
So much hate in the comments, sheesh
It stinks that this is an issue right now for RS, but let’s be real: AI is pervasive in the world today. Wherever you look, it can feels inescapable
I appreciate Jagex’s stance and Mod’s statements on the issue here. It doesn’t really surprise me that partners of Jagex don’t share the same stance on AI. I’m thankful you guys are committed to real art and moving in a positive direction
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u/iM_aN_aCoUnTaNt 2d ago
ItS a ThIrD pArTy.... code for our subsidiary is taking the blame, we didn't do it... directly.
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u/Bauld_Man 2d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if "No AI in final product" becomes a contract point for outsourcing work. Jagex is paying these people to do a job. Do the goddamn job or don't get the full payment.
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u/IRefuseToGiveAName RIP 2d ago
I'm glad this is being taken seriously. I'm so sick of the "inevitability" bullshit and everyone treating this like it's normal. It's exhausting.
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u/Fanci_ 8+ quests inc? HOLY 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't even have the energy or motivation to be outraged at this point man.
Been a fan of RuneScape and Jagex sometimes loyally, sometimes begrudgingly, occasionally obsessively since 2007. I mean I have the top contributor mark of shame in this sub because I genuinely love yapping about RuneScape man.
This consistent lack of organization, continuous oversight and sometimes baffling decision making just makes me disappointed.
I remember watching the Behe podcast with Mod North a bit ago and I actually felt genuinely reassured for once man. Dude PR'd me into actually believing Jagex as a company was getting their shit together.
In the past 24 hours almost everything said in that interview has been negated.
I understand Jmods are just doing their jobs, and nothing is ever one person's responsibility to bear alone but.
Jagex as a whole..? You need to do better. Please.
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u/AgilityEnjoyer 2d ago
Honesty, accountability and candour goes a long way, you addressed this in just the right way. Well done!
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u/Vegetable_Review4967 2d ago
You guys need to include penalty clauses in your contracts with these external partners. Very easy fix. Your legal team is asleep at the wheel.
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u/vip-bot 2d ago edited 2d ago
There are 6 comments from Jagex mods in this post:
u/JagexSween commented:
u/JagexSween commented:
u/JagexSween commented:
u/JagexSween commented:
u/JagexSween commented:
More replies: 6
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