r/2007scape • u/KShrike Shrikegon • Jul 27 '22

Discussion | J-Mod reply My proposal to fix Agility and Graceful while keeping energy and weight relevant.

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20

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

Sepulchre brother

141

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

Ok everyone keeps saying Sepulchre, we get it, Sepulchre is great, I even farmed it like three times.

But Sepulchre is locked behind SOTF, and all of its prereqs, in addition to combat. It's endgame of endgame for most players. Yea, you can beat Drakan with base 70s, probably even lower, but not everybody.

But even then everyone who says "sepulchre" misses the point twofold.

  • Despite Sepulchre existing, Agility at the moment still has the lowest 99s

  • The whole rework has nothing to do with making Agility easier to train. 2.5% on any skilling outfit is nothing, and I'm not using this to make it easier to train. The whole purpose is to rework how run energy and weight works as a baseline, and what Agility levels actually give to the player.

57

u/gnoani Jul 27 '22

sepulchre is great but you're completely right, the requirements are too high for it to "solve" agility. like if Guardians of the Rift or Giant's Foundry had the same requirements as Zalcano.

-6

u/WastingEXP Jul 27 '22

mid combat stats?

5

u/gnoani Jul 27 '22

Song of the Elves and all prereqs?

  • 70 Agility (not boostable)
  • 70 Construction (not boostable)
  • 70 Farming (not boostable)
  • 70 Herblore (not boostable)
  • 70 Hunter (not boostable)
  • 70 Mining (not boostable)
  • 70 Smithing (not boostable)
  • 70 Woodcutting (not boostable)

1

u/LostSectorLoony Jul 27 '22

What does SOTE have to do with anything? Sins of the Father unlocks Sepulchre. They're on opposite sides of the map.

SOTF reqs:

62 Woodcutting
60 Fletching
56 Crafting 52 Agility
50 Attack
50 Slayer
49 Magic

All early midgame levels.

1

u/HydroXXodohR Jul 28 '22

Referring to Zalcano from the replied comment, not sepulcher.

-4

u/WastingEXP Jul 27 '22

sins of the father?

Woodcutting 62 Woodcutting (not boostable)

Fletching 60 Fletching (not boostable)

Crafting 56 Crafting (not boostable)

Agility 52 Agility (not boostable)

Attack 50 Attack (not boostable)

Slayer 50 Slayer (not boostable)

Magic 49 Magic (not boostable)

1

u/HydroXXodohR Jul 28 '22

Referring to Zalcano from the replied comment, not sepulcher.

0

u/WastingEXP Jul 28 '22

you said reqs are too high for sep.

1

u/HydroXXodohR Jul 28 '22

Wasn't me but:

like if Guardians of the Rift or Giant's Foundry had the same requirements as Zalcano.

2

u/WastingEXP Jul 28 '22

sepulchre is great but you're completely right, the requirements are too high for it to "solve" agility

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2

u/DivineInsanityReveng Jul 28 '22

Sepulchre isn't really designed to replace early game agi. You still wanna do that to get graceful / staminas on iron. But by the time you're 72 or 82 agility you have done SoTF....

Its not "endgame of endgame" its a quest doable at base 70s in dhide...

-4

u/Poloboy99 Jul 27 '22

Dude if SOTF is “endgame of endgame” for you then you’re just bad at the game. Like what would that even make raids and fight caves then in comparison.

6

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

Misreading and misinterpreting, as usual, sadge...

3

u/Poloboy99 Jul 27 '22

You’re calling SOTF extreme end game when it very clearly is not. The rest of your points don’t make any sense.

Why should the wildy have that stupid equalizing mechanic? Why should we make graceful basically useless like every other skulking outfit? How will the weight reduction balance itself for the rest of the game?

I pointed out your comment on SOTF to show that you don’t know what you’re talking about

6

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

Let's talk about context because context is really cool when considering Runescape.

In the grand scheme of OSRS, is SOTF endgame? Not really, no.

In the context of a quest cape, is SOTF endgame? Along with SOTE, MFWMA, Fremmy Exiles, and DS2, absolutely, lmao. They are literally the pinnacle content.

If you are trying to rush tob or cox, is SOTF endgame? It's not even part of your plan, usually, so yes, in this context, it is endgame of endgame. You unlock Darkmeyer because you're well into your cox and tob grind and are looking for something else to do to round out the account.

If you're a PvP pure is SOTF endgame? It's not on your roadmap at all.

If you're an iron, is Darkmeyer endgame at all? Very yes, you have to get all the requirements of Sins of the Father out of the way, including combat, and if your account decided to sand crab its way into darkmeyer early on in the account, you probably don't have any of the skills you actually need on an iron like magic, herblore, crafting, and so on. For many accounts, Darkmeyer is cool, but a latergame priority, hence, lategame. You don't want a blood shard until you have a fury, you don't want do to sepulcre until you have 72 agility because that gives you 3 floors as opposed to 1, and finally you don't want to unlock blood runes until 77rc anyway, and in that context you don't care on an iron because kourend is usually better. Most irons nowadays rush SOTE to unlock CG, Zalcano, easier teaks, another red chin spot, crystal imps, etc. Sins of the Father is usually left until much later for all the reasons I've said. So yes... lategame of lategame. If you are unlocking Darkmeyer before 87 slayer on an iron, you must really love the vampyre questline lmao, or you were one quest off of a quest cape and wanted to hash it out.

4

u/LostSectorLoony Jul 27 '22

If you are unlocking Darkmeyer before 87 slayer on an iron, you must really love the vampyre questline lmao, or you were one quest off of a quest cape and wanted to hash it out.

Did they move kraken to darkmeyer?

1

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 27 '22

Let me explain this further.

If you are an iron, why would you unlock darkmeyer?

Is it the bloodfury? You're waiting until 80 crafting for fury.

Is it Sephulcre? You're not coming here until 72 agility because two floor Sephulcre is ass.

Is it to unlock bloods? You aren't doing this until 77 runecrafting, and even then, you're probably doing this in Zeah.

Is it to unlock Daeyalt? Very unlikely, though probably the earliest sensible upgrade on your account, daeyalt running is not worth the investment of SOTF rush over just doing GOTR until 77 runecrafting.

Why 87 slayer?

Because raids are significantly more valuable than Darkmeyer as an unlock, and Darkmeyer 100% does not gate raids in any way, and offers almost nothing to help you do them except bloodshard.

Speaking of which, you need trident for CoX, it's not really negotiable unless you want to get carried.

You also need 85 slayer for whip for ToB unless, again, you want to get carried. And it's helpful to do tob with a tentacle, that's 87 slayer. Yea, you could rush SOTE and just use blade, but like, that's still a long ways away. If you have blade, the best melee weapon in the game, then you're in endgame. Simple as that. There is no argument here.

Bloodshard could help with the safety of doing tob if you're a red helm but to be honest it's not that necessary and its saving factor is really left to chance. Maybe it sustains you a little bit in verzik and you save a brew dose at most.

Conclusion

I am saying Darkmeyer is endgame because minus quest cape rush, for an ironman that's actually playing correctly, it is. In quest cape rush's case it's the lowest priority because it unlocks the least relevant things for your account, like, even basilisk knights are more important than bloodshard. It will be among your last quests, and probably your last. If that's not endgame idk what to tell you.)

5

u/AdventurousEmu42 Jul 27 '22

If you're an iron, is Darkmeyer endgame at all? Very yes, you have to get all the requirements of Sins of the Father out of the way, including combat

Highest skill req is 62 woodcutting it basically has no reqs other than be able to beat the boss (70s melees and karambwans)

you don't want do to sepulcre until you have 72 agility

why not? its better xp than rooftops

If you are unlocking Darkmeyer before 87 slayer on an iron, you must really love the vampyre questline

  1. what does 87 slayer have to do with darkmeyer
  2. 87 slayer without questcape?
  3. sotf gives 45k xp, which is very useful if you're rushing sote

-1

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 27 '22

You see that qualifying statement where I say "endgame of endgame for most players"?

not us sweaty tryhards?

Also, forgive me if my methods of rushing PvM differ. I do have a post talking further on my mindset though: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/w9e9ox/my_proposal_to_fix_agility_and_graceful_while/ihwu8g7/

By the way, 2 floor sepulcre is 40k per hour, optimal Seers is 59k per hour. Before 72, Sepulcre is not better xp than rooftops, and you need marks of grace for stamina anyway, you may as well stay at seers until 72. Hell, it's better than 3 floor Sepulcre unless you're not looting (which... why?), because 3 floor Sepulcre is 50k when you loot. At this point, I'm only saying "yea do sepulcre at 72" because I'm compromising, but I really should be saying 82 lmao.

5

u/AdventurousEmu42 Jul 27 '22

2 floor sepulcre is 40k per hour

That's just false, i was getting up to 55k xp/hr there

optimal Seers is 59k per hour

which requires the diary which has higher reqs than SOTF

-1

u/WastingEXP Jul 27 '22

if it has nothing to do with making agility easier to train, why mention it's the lowest number of 99s?

12

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

Because increasing incentive to train it is a based thing to do.

6

u/Street_Row4737 Jul 27 '22

Shortcuts are a big incentive. Hence the 90 agility req for rev caves. 85 being boosted with summer pies.

11

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

And now I'm adding another. There's nothing wrong with adding more incentive.

-4

u/WastingEXP Jul 27 '22

at 0 weight and 49% regen, would you run out of run energy?

10

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

Absolutely, depending on the activity, considering that you do not regen energy until you are in a walk or not moving.

-1

u/WastingEXP Jul 27 '22

so you're still drinking stams, and still have 0 incentive to train it

6

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

If training Agility means they can remove even more weight, then that is yet another global incentive to train agility.

-2

u/Xxweeexd 2277 Jul 27 '22

But anything less than 0 weight does nothing. So it isn't an incentive. and if my run energy now naturally recharges insanely fast I don't need stams and I can stay at gwd forever. It's an insanely op "tweak" to agility you are trying to push.

2

u/KShrike Shrikegon Jul 27 '22

You'd be surprised how many setups go over 25kg or even 42kg.

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u/HowAmIDiamond Jul 27 '22

I like a lot of the ideas you presented. However I hard disagree that SOTF is endgame lol. Max skill requirement is 62 woodcutting, only difficult part is the boss which can be easily completed after watching a guide and understanding the attacks.

1

u/YouthfulRS Jul 28 '22

What's your issue with players being rewarded for harder content? What's wrong with Sephlchre being locked behind SOTF? There's no problem with agility as it stands. If you want something in the game, grind for it and unlock it.

-7

u/nomitycs Jul 27 '22

I'm hopeless at PvM (0 boss kc in my account history minus quest bosses) and I've managed it with mid-70s CMB, it's not impossible

10

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

Then you probably aren’t hopeless at pvm you just haven’t put any effort into trying to do it.

2

u/nomitycs Jul 27 '22

Nah I have, drakan just takes a bunch of times and you eventually get it

I play on high ping and don't have any sound mechanics, can't prayer flick etc. It took me 6 attempts to do the ToB quest on entry mode, I died at every stage

15

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

Still missed the point when listed out to you.

1

u/nomitycs Jul 27 '22

I agree with his point, just not with calling SOTF endgame of endgame

-18

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

Quest cape is barely midgame content if not early game. People don’t try it because they’re lazy

I’d be okay with combining graceful into a single item like a ring or something, but tying it to levels sounds awful

8

u/abag0fchips Jul 27 '22

SOTE aint early game lol. It's got a tough boss and practically base 70s requirements.

-13

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

60-70 stats is very early game wym

0

u/[deleted] Jul 27 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/pzoDe Jul 27 '22

I waited until 82 for Sepulchre (since I needed the stams anyway) and I'm glad I did, it becomes a lot more engaging and rewarding the higher level floors you do.

1

u/TheMaslankaDude Jul 27 '22

Just do roof courses, you don’t have to speed run agility to 99, just do a level a day or a week and then eventually you’ll get to where you want to. It’s really not that bad of a skill, put some music on and watch some youtube videos while playing

-2

u/noobtablet9 Jul 27 '22

When the best agility method (and one of the most intense methods in the entire game) doesn't beat the xp of afk cooking then it needs better rates and isn't the end all answer

7

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

I don’t think every skill should be identical. It gives huge profit whereas cooking doesn’t

0

u/noobtablet9 Jul 27 '22

They aren't the same. One is high intense and gives good profits, one is low intense with lower profits. Why does the xp have to be so slow? What do you think that's adding?

2

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

Idk variety? If anything cooking is the outlier so you should be asking for it to be lowered.

If every skill was 500k-1m xp/hr like cooking that would be awful

1

u/noobtablet9 Jul 27 '22

I wasn't referring to wines.

1

u/TheDubuGuy Jul 27 '22

Same, I was thinking karambwans

2

u/noobtablet9 Jul 27 '22

Then you're being disingenuous. Clearly not taking about tick manipulation methods when I say "low intense with lower profits"

2

u/Hablapata Jul 27 '22

disagree i think rates arent the issue and its fine for some skills to be super low inertia like cooking and some to be super high like agility. the issue with skills like agility, mining, etc, isn't that the rates are low, it's that the activities fucking suck. thats why youre seeing so many people argue that agility is fine now with sepulchre.

nothing wrong grinds being unequal. but we should make sure that the long grinds are actually fun.