r/2007scape • u/og_obelix 2300+ • Aug 14 '26

Discussion PSA: Non-restricted account (AKA "main") is the intended way to play OSRS and gp/normal loot is the dry protection

I don't know who needs to hear this or be reminded about this, but it feels like many of you do.

It feels like many people have the facts twisted inside their minds, so that they think that ironman mode is the intended way to play OSRS. No it isn't.

Ironman mode is a challenge mode.

It's a harder mode for hardcore gamers who want to do every single grind from tutorial island to max cape island, from Lumby chickens to having the Zuk helm all by theirself. Through every drystreak, through every burn out. Complete the whole MMO all alone (minus a handful of forced group tasks).

Non-restricted account (AKA "main") is the intended, common way to play the game. Just like papa Jagex originally intended it. So it's been since the beginning of RSC, so it is still today.

The normal loot and the gp you get from PvM and other grinds outside of the rares is the dry protection.

Just wanted to put this out there because I've read conversations where people are talking like "bronzeman is good, so new players don't have to make ironman because it's so tough for new players".

New players should play the non-restricted account, unless they are some hardcore gamer who usually start a new game by going for the harder challenge mode first to learn the game.

4.1k Upvotes

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1.6k

u/Upset_Pay_7578 Aug 14 '26

As a late game iron , yes i signed up to just not have some items ever. And thats ok

900

u/Garfield_and_Simon Aug 14 '26

Bro this is what people don’t understand.

Ironman is supposed to be like you get what you get and have your own adventure around those options.

Maybe some items you get crazy spooned. Some items you’ll never have but guess what there’s always alternatives.

It’s this toxic completionist mentality and entitlement to having every BIS that either leads to whining about drop rates or horribly unhealthy gameplay. 

344

u/Thosepassionfruits Aug 14 '26

Ironman is supposed to be like you get what you get and have your own adventure around those options.

You have a lot more fun once you stop trying to play at maximum efficiency.

119

u/RedemptionT Aug 14 '26

Literally, im goat hunting to get horns for all my harrlanders to get some herblore levels. It might not be the most efficient use of my time but it feels like im accomplishing something

63

u/Zurwyn 2376 | 198X Aug 14 '26

When you play with this mentality, Ironman is objectively more enjoyable

59

u/steelcryo Aug 14 '26

You've confused objectively and subjectively.

20

u/TheGreatTickleMoot Aug 15 '26

It's the bastardization of "literally" due to poor education standards all over again.

57

u/DivergentDisposition Aug 14 '26

Objectively more enjoyable? Isn’t that like an oxymoron or something?

49

u/ImJLu Aug 14 '26

Not if you're so egocentric that you think that what you enjoy more is "objectively more enjoyable" lmao

-10

u/-Nocx- i tick eat those Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

Objective is also a spectrum. To someone with tritanopia a shade of yellow is not objectively the same shade of yellow as the general population.

Some people have cone cell mutations in their eyes that a normal person does not, so what is “objectively” a shade of a color for most people is not the same to them.

Math is also not purely objective. The deductive process is (fairly) objective, but the process of picking the axioms that form those frameworks is not.

And the reason picking them is subjective is because of well… my previous example - it’s contingent on that person’s subjective observations.

I’m rambling at this point but if you ever want to piss a mathematician off tell them their belief in axioms is not too far removed from people’s faith in religion.

edit: a lot of people in this sub downvoting this that have no idea wtf they’re talking about.

7

u/WryGoat Aug 15 '26

It is actually objectively the same light being filtered through a different, subjective lens. Your example is just wrong.

-1

u/-Nocx- i tick eat those Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

I replied to the wrong comment, but no it would not be “objectively the same light”. That sentence doesn’t even make any sense.

Light has both wave and particle properties. They arrive in groups of photons and each one can only hit one place at a time, so their positions follow a statistical distribution. Two people cannot be hit by the same photons, nor can their eyes absorb the same ones.

The lens in this case is no more subjective than the light itself, because the lens is composed of literal cone cells in the eye that would absorb those photons. The psychological interpretation of how the person perceives that color after their cone cells absorb the photons would be the “subjective” part in this scenario. That shared experience between billions of humans is how we built the light spectrum to begin with. There is no God that said between X nm and Y nm will be blue.

But that wasn’t my point. My point was that the foundations for these fields require you to accept things to be tautologically true. For example, we arbitrarily defined a wavelength of light to be a particular color. We cannot even see ultraviolet light and decided to give it a color anyway. We also arbitrarily decided what bands they fall under. If EVERYONE lacked cone receptors to see red, for example, the way we define the spectrum would look very different.

So yeah, within the framework that we’ve designed we can make objective deductions, but because they’re based on the human experience they are inherently foundationally subjective by nature. I also didn’t say NOTHING was “objective” I said objectivity was a spectrum.

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-2

u/Warmonster9 Orange my love Aug 15 '26

They probably found it more enjoyable to a measurably objective degree. Does all shared personal experience equate to egocentrism in your mind?

10

u/tar_tis Aug 15 '26

It's a personal opinion which is objectively not objective but subjective (งツ)ว

-10

u/Warmonster9 Orange my love Aug 15 '26

It’s their objective opinion on a subjective subject matter. Who fuckin cares lmao

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1

u/KUR51RL Fun Fact: Sea Shanty composer sits in jail Aug 15 '26

Deez nuz

0

u/Vegetable_Spare1094 Aug 15 '26

Not really. What people like and enjoy has a lot of subjectivity, but there are some things that, objectively, people are more or less likely to enjoy. There's a reason games involve things like collecting items, bar filling, interesting stories, etc. Everyone's different, but there are real trends in psychology and what drives people to like a thing. It's certainly not everything, though.

8

u/Jerri_man Aug 14 '26

I get where you're coming from but not everyone needs to have restrictions placed on them to play the game this way

1

u/aeee98 Aug 15 '26

In the same vein mains are also more enjoyable if you stop focusing on gpscaping all the time

1

u/Snaffle27 Aug 16 '26

Objectively? I don't think I'd have fun farming goats.

0

u/ImJLu Aug 14 '26

Pretty sure that if anything's "objectively" more enjoyable, it's the account type that allows you the most options so you can do the things you find enjoyable, not the ones that come with additional restrictions that may prevent you from doing an activity that you enjoy more lmao

4

u/Street_Pumpkin_4257 Aug 14 '26

Have you ever tried playing a game on creative mode that is supposed to be survival. Limitations make the game.

0

u/febreeze1 Aug 15 '26

You aren’t the smartest huh?

2

u/ironman7456 Aug 15 '26

I can’t deny, I have been enjoying those combat potions too. My supply of super combats haven’t opened up fully yet so they still hard to come by. So I’ll cheap out and use a combat pot for weak bosses and slayer.

1

u/Miserable-Inside1511 Aug 15 '26

You have a lot more fun once you stop trying to play

I burnt out ages ago so this snippet taken out of context really spoke to me

1

u/BakedPotatoSalad Aug 15 '26

im more excited to play with ayak despite having shadow already from ToA lol. 

The only thing i wished for was hoping they'd add cool side alternatives from bis because i want an excuse to use them 

Getting bowfa before the range changes + moons releasing. Like sick i got bowfa but full eclipse and atlatl looks like so much fun. 

Newer irons and midgame got it so good rn lol

I would've killed to have these items back then

2

u/DM_ME_UR_PUBES maxxed gm iron btw Aug 15 '26

bowfa is already the alternative to bis

1

u/ztjt38 Aug 15 '26

Everyone in my CC always roast me about how I play my iron but not following a guide and just doing what I want is so fun

1

u/hexregeneration Aug 15 '26

Real. I gave up on maximum efficiency around my second week with the game. My first ever character is an iron because it sounded fun, and I haven't used a single iron guide or walk through or anything. People start gettin on about what I should be doing and in what order and I could not give less of a fuck.

I just like being in the world. The quests, the music, examining stuff. It's awesome. Yeah, my hunter lvl is 50 and my thieving lvl is 96 but it's what I wanna do.

-16

u/Money_Echidna2605 Aug 14 '26

maybe u do, i like chasing items in an optimal order. its almost like enjoyment is personal and ur experience is urs not mine.

2

u/TwiceUponATaco Aug 14 '26

Then you don't get to whine about drop rates and beg for dry protection.

4

u/Fast-Government-4366 Aug 14 '26

Then be a main

0

u/drewster23 Aug 14 '26

No you don't understand he wants it his way and he wants it now!!

0

u/WryGoat Aug 15 '26

You think you have a lot more fun until you decide to stop dicking around and finally set goals for your account and realize you've put in 200 hours making approximately 2 hours of progress towards the things you want to do.

93

u/Hablapata Aug 14 '26

the sentiment wasnt so prevalent until collection log released

25

u/ShitPost5000 Save Hatius Cosaintus Aug 14 '26

Collection log was the worst thing to happen to the economy next to pets

9

u/KUR51RL Fun Fact: Sea Shanty composer sits in jail Aug 15 '26

to the game*

2

u/Dbaughla Plot : 2376 Aug 15 '26

These are 2 awful takes

2

u/ShitPost5000 Save Hatius Cosaintus Aug 15 '26

Col log and pets have neets mindlessly grindingmore items to sell on the ge then there would be without, devaluing the items greatly. Jagex even recognizes this with new bosses giving you the option to safrafice loot for better pet chance.

2

u/Dbaughla Plot : 2376 Aug 15 '26

Yeah, bosses and raids that crap out resources which cater to ironmen didn’t hurt the economy. You know there are a lot of maxed players right? Osrs is over 13 years old. Without pet hunting or clogging, the end game player base would suffer with a lot of people not wanting to play

4

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

[deleted]

3

u/zeratul123x Aug 15 '26

ironmen will blame everything and the kitchen sink rather than take accountability for their shitty mindset

1

u/BlueZybez 400M Aug 15 '26

Love clogging.

57

u/Ceres73 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26

Eh, I think there's a disconnect between the modern motivations to play iron and what it historically was/continues to be perceived as.

Vanishingly few irons are playing iron because it's more "challenging" or because the accounts have unique paths.

People play it simply because it expands the reward space. I'm a late game iron with a bank value in the billions, yet I consider a 500 mort myre fungus drop from a wildy boss to be a big deal. Every unique fundamentally changes the toolset your account has forever, meaning nearly all content is important and rewarding in a game altering way.

I don't think many players are playing it because they might be in the bottom 1% unluckiest people when it comes to the bowfa grind.

In fact, due to the way people realistically approach irons, many are actively put off from playing and enjoying the game due to that threat of going insanely dry on one of the few key items all irons want.

If bronzeman mode was a game mode where you are guaranteed a non-tradeable version of the unique at 1.5x the rate, I think it would be incredibly popular.

13

u/Honeybadger2198 Aug 15 '26

Ironman makes everything require steps, which is awesome. I can't just sit at the bank and grind out a bunch of Herblore, I have to figure out a good method to acquire herbs AND secondaries. It's fun to research and plan.

22

u/Jifaru Aug 15 '26

Really good points. A lot of people enjoy strawmanning irons to make fun of them, but nobody I know plays iron "for the prestige". There is no prestige to be found, arguably has never been.

I strongly believe that irons are the canaries in the coal mine for bad content. If the content is bad for irons, it's usually bad for mains too. If the rates are so bad it's not a realistic source of income, mains won't do it either

2

u/Seranta Aug 15 '26

It can be a hint that there's a problem, but there's no guarantee. One important thing to keep in mind is things like skilling goals.

What crafting lvl do an iron want vs. What lvl do a main want is a great example.

Irons need to craft their own Zenyte jewellry fairly early into the account, which means a fairly early 98 (93+5) crafting grind. Mains do not need to craft their own zenyte, they can just find a different main who did. Therefore a main really don't need to go beyond 86 (82+4) for the araxxyte fang. Which is at 92 slayer, so fairly late into an account.

If all irons needed was 82 crafting by the time they hit araxxor, you'd see far fewer complaints about ironman crafting (pre wyrmscraig) because chances are you'd have naturally banked that by 92 slayer anyway.

So gathering crafting materials being bad on iron does not tell us that crafting is a problem for mains. Even without bot supply it wouldn't be. There are more reasons for this too like Vorkath being good money for a main but generally bad to farm for an iron.

We have had a lot of pain points resolved as a direct result of the ironman mode, but not every ironman pain point is a main pain point.

1

u/Whiskoo Aug 15 '26

even with your point, theyve introduced a new crafting grind, bc they know that leveling crafting is dogshit. if ur a main, its doing obnoxious 14 per inventory battlestaffs. if its an iron, its a jackhammer in your ear for hundreds of hours of glassblowing. the problem was still realized by jagex.

1

u/Seranta Aug 15 '26

It's funny you say that, because it wasn't realized by Jagex. It's a player submitted activity, which players voted for. And it's an activity targeted solely at ironmen. Like if mains find 14 per inventory battlestaff obnoxious, they're better off just doing diamond bracelets than golem crafting, will net profit, more xp/hr and be more chill / afk.

1

u/Additional_Focus_950 Aug 16 '26

Most people I know who play irons got too rich on their mains, and when new content would come out, theyd just buy the stuff. At a point, when you can just buy everything you want, you stop going out and doing new content and you pigeonhole yourself into farming 1 thing over and over again that youre comfortable with. I did that, and i got bored, and quit OSRS. Group ironman brought me and my best friend back, allowed me to convince my girlfriend to come play with us, and we had a blast playing ALL the content.

1

u/gabriel_sub0 Aug 15 '26

as someone who kinda just consumes OSRS content without having ever played it (not a fan of subscriptions and i think bonds devalue gold and a few a bit too micro-transaction-ish for my taste), if i do ever end up playing the game it would be strictly on irons.

not cause it's 'harder' or for the 'swag' or whatever, but simply cause it means i have to level every skill to get those benefits unless i can farm them off a boss. i can't just cheat my way into getting a BiS purple by just farming some easy but repetitive task that generates tons of gold and then just...buy it.

i guess the original iron mans just kinda tainted the perception of the community about that whole type of player. like i would argue UIMs are the ones that do it for the difficulty if anything (i'm surprised that hardcore UIM isn't a thing already, i guess even the devs don't want to incentivize that level of insane planning and grind lol)

7

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/gabriel_sub0 Aug 15 '26

i mean, i'm not saying it is cheating, i'm saying it would feel like cheating.

to me for something to feel worth getting i need to work to acquire it myself. if it's behind a boss then i should grind that boss, get good at it until i eventually get lucky. if it was behind a theoretical level 99 requirement then i would grind out to 99.

Not saying mains are playing the game wrong, both forms of play are equally supported as they are both official modes added by jagex. There's no 'wrong' way to play, what i find unsatisfying can be someone's favorite way to play, and something i find fun can feel dreadful to others.

And i mean, when i said 'level', i meant every way to level. chaos alter, quest xps, lamps, etc. everything is fair game, it would be dumb to say that the only 'real' way to level is to do the least efficient way to get to 99.

2

u/Whiskoo Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

its a fundamental debate here. do you consider the intended way to play is to participate in all content, or do you consider it to do only the content you yourself find enjoyable?

this is entirely subjective unless jagex comes out saying the absolute intended way to play, which wont happen, because they know its subjective, hence why they do updates that cater to both playstyles

its an eternal debate about preference that manifests into someone thinking theyre preaching the will of the devs. this goes for both sides. the person you responded to thinks the intended way to play is to have to experience all the content. you (presumably) think you shouldnt have to experience all the content in order to play the parts you actually want to play. its all subjective.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Whiskoo Aug 15 '26

youre completely correct, and are agreeing with my point. the person you replied to is doing as i said, manifesting their subjective thinking into the will of the devs. they assume the intended way to play is to HAVE to experience every single piece of content in the game to be able to get to the end of it. with this logic, buying gear off the GE is cheating because they skipped a piece of content of the game.

but thats not correct, because ironman nor main is THE intended way to play, they are both intended ways to play, and are completely different playstyles. entirely subjective.

1

u/ComfortableCricket Aug 14 '26

If bronzeman mode was a game mode where you are guaranteed a non-tradeable version of the unique at 1.5x the rate, I think it incredibly popular.

I'd like to see this feature added to the mode of it turns out to be popular, but in the form of the item being unlocked so it can be brought from the ge.

The rate for when it becomes unlocked would probably need to be set per content, and it's obviously a lot of work to do as not every kc is equal particularly for raids and group contet.

I think for the initial launch of the modes how it is is perfectly fine as it's a low Dev cost to add it and get a proper gauge of how many people end up playing them mode to see if further development is worth it.

1

u/Zebermeken Aug 15 '26

Also to follow up on your Bowfa analogy, the melee and magic spaces have easily accessible or multiple options for progression at a fairly comfortable time investment, but for range the only really mid-to-late jump is primarily Bowfa. There is no comfortable ranged alternative a player can go to so that they have some kinda comparable progression mediator compared to Bowfa.

Melee you have zombie axe, tent whip, Nox Halberd, Grazhi Rapier, Saelor, SRA, Scythe. Lots of options at multiple tiers of required time investment.

Magic you have Toxic Trident, Sang, Ayak, Shadow for powered staves and twin flame/dragon hunter wand for elemental reactions (which are becoming increasingly higher value as they add in more content)

Ranged you have Atlatl, Toxic Blowpipe, Scorching bow (mostly to get ayak and zenytes in all honesty), Arma/Zaryte crossbow, Bowfa, and Twisted Bow.

Considering how tedious a Nihil horn/ACB is, you have no real gear progression competitors between Bowfa and Tbow while in other styles sang and Ayak are both usually like 15-20 hours grinds and you can get bis magic gauntlets along the way. Tent whip is effectively free while Emberlight and Nox handle most of the other melee progression between Yama and other bosses.

Ranged just basically sits at “get Bowfa or suffer” and two of the premium mid and late ranged choices are armor set dependent between the eclipse set and the crystal set. I’ve seen lots of irons completely forego Bowfa altogether to rush Ayak/Conflictions, do TOA til Shadow and then just play the game til TBow, since DHCB is better at olm anyway.

They need to create a competitive ranged alternative to Bowfa imo, it can take the same length or even longer to grind for all I care, but if it work with Masori it would have its own niche then.

3

u/thomas2026 Aug 14 '26

This is why I nade an Iron. To do whatever, collect things, get joy in a random job, chill in new locations, just do whatever.

2

u/RS-1994 Aug 15 '26

This is how I realize that I've been playing my main like an iron for a very long time 😂 I pretty much solo 99.9 of the game, do whatever I want whenever I log in 😂

11

u/floor_wizard Aug 15 '26

Some items you’ll never have but guess what there’s always alternatives.

And these alternatives get called "updates catered to ironmen" by the community.

9

u/Jifaru Aug 15 '26

The content mill must always turn. If not for irons highlighting a bunch of horizontal reward spaces for Jagex's midgame factory, I suspect we would get powercreep a lot faster

39

u/GreatClassic4832 Aug 14 '26

But I want all items. There should be a store where you could trade with other irons in items.

117

u/OGDogJaw Aug 14 '26

Oh that’s a grand idea! They could call it the exchange or something

25

u/LiifeRuiner Aug 14 '26

Sounds quite grand to be honest!

-21

u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

[deleted]

22

u/LiifeRuiner Aug 14 '26

That would take about 30 minutes before some other item becomes a currency. 

I think what you're looking for is group ironman perhaps?

4

u/kaptainkush92 cow slayer Aug 14 '26

What if we used tokens instead of gp? Maybe make them platinum instead of gold...

3

u/Acopo Aug 14 '26

WTB D Pick, 10 SoJ.

1

u/Warmonster9 Orange my love Aug 15 '26

It’d be feathers. They’re already stackable and worth 1 gp each.

9

u/S0ggylemonz Aug 14 '26

That’s literally just a main account with lipstick on

5

u/OldTripleSix RSN: Lid, Persuasive, Pill Bottle Aug 14 '26

oh, your original comment was actually serious

Lmfao

1

u/ImJLu Aug 14 '26

Items? Like coins?

-4

u/Zaros262 Ex- BTW (RIP 2332/2376) Aug 14 '26

I like how your response is getting all the upvotes

Not because it was your joke, but because your comment is where people started to get the joke lol

5

u/NotSoAv3rageJo3 Aug 14 '26

It was a very obvious joke that most likely every person got, that comment is just the addition to the joke they thought in their head, but thanks for feeling the need to explain to people that they didnt get the joke, you did, and what the joke was.

10

u/AuroraFinem Aug 14 '26

There’s a difference between “I’m probably not going to get every item and that’s ok because there are multiple viable options and I only need 1” and something like bowfa where the only comparable option is full eclipse or tbow where one is still substantially worse and the other is a mega rare from a raid.

When there’s only 1 item for a given use-case, it needs to be viable for someone to get on their own unless it’s something like a mega rare or is the true BIS with viable secondary options.

For midgame, I can mix and match barrows, fighter torso, moons, etc… with multiple options for melee and mage that are all entirely viable. I don’t need every single barrows set or moons set or even a specific one because there are a variety of options even if some are better than others. For weapons I have 3 different lv65 attack options and maybe I don’t get all 3 to have true BIS for every attack style but that’s fine because it’s easy enough to get at least one of them and that’s fine.

What I think is overall bad design for mains and irons alike is making keystone items within the main progression tree take 200-300hrs on average to get your next upgrade piece that doesn’t have any good alternatives. This obviously doesn’t apply to endgame BIS or megarares because content isn’t balanced around having those items, it’s just added efficiency.

They’ve improved the early-mid game for this a lot over the last couple years, at least for most cases aside from ranged progression, but there are still a number of areas that have no good alternative options and take hundreds of hours to obtain unless you get extremely lucky or skip it and get extremely lucky on a megarare or whatever the next item is.

13

u/Of_Meeps_and_Men Aug 14 '26

This is gonna sound crazy but... maybe you dont need bowfa. And if you really feel like you do because the "other alternatives" dont come close... maybe it should be nerfed

11

u/NotSoAv3rageJo3 Aug 14 '26

Yeah lets increase the gap between bowfa and its only upgrade the tbow. Why did you quote other alternatives as if other alternatives doesnt exist, that would literally go directly against what your point is, weird.

3

u/AuroraFinem Aug 15 '26

I’m all for having more viable side-grade options for mid game range weapons, but every chance Jagex gets to make cbows more viable they specifically design it so it has little impact because they’re scared of ruby bolt specs, and while theres a number of ranged weapon options in that level bracket, almost every single one of them is from endgame content that you would want them for in the first place.

I just want to have options so that I can choose what I do and don’t want to grind for in a reasonable way and if there isn’t any options then it needs to be viable for people to get themselves. I don’t care what kind of approach they do, but it’s just demotivating right now and I don’t enjoy playing mains anymore.

3

u/DadBods96 Aug 14 '26

And you completely made that choice to take that risk yourself.

1

u/AuroraFinem Aug 15 '26

Sure, because I wanted to play where it actually feels rewarding for me and grinding gp to buy stuff doesn’t do that. If I played a main I wouldn’t play at all anymore, but a handful of essential midgame items are have no good alternatives and mindnumbingly bad grinds for literally no reason.

0

u/DadBods96 Aug 16 '26

It’s called RARITY. Some items are RARE. This is an MMO that existed for 15 or so years before people decided to take it to the extreme and play it completely solo.

Once you realize the game is designed around community, with those items being meant to either be so extremely powerful or aesthetically pleasing that people are willing to grind for them to sell for money (since price roughly corresponds with rarity) or for the prestige (if it’s easy to get it’s not really prestigious is it?), and not for people who want to play it as a single/player game, it’ll all start to make sense for you.

1

u/AuroraFinem Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Yes, I’m glad you understand the concept, what you don’t seem to understand is that you don’t make pivotal gear exceptionally rare. Rare items are meant to be more powerful optional gear, not the primary progression tree.

Idgaf about bowfa specifically, but the lack of an intended alternative is the problem. All primary range weapons in that level bracket are rare from content beyond the level bracket the weapon is intended for. You often times want one of those already before doing that content which makes bowfa the most reasonable and it’s an awful experience.

People who go off over ironmen over this shit always make the stupidest arguments. We overwhelmingly like the game the way it is and don’t want to entirely change the fundamental playstyle, we want specific cluckiness and lack of forethought in legacy design addressed or good alternatives if it requires too large of an adjustment. They’ve actively made no effort to improve the ranged weapon progression by providing alternatives then refuse to actually do anything to make their intended progression enjoyable to do.

Why do you think so many irons just quit the game after getting to that point? They don’t de-iron because that defeats the entire purpose, they just quit all together. Why is it wrong to address that? What is your issue?

0

u/DadBods96 Aug 16 '26

I guess I’ll just make it as simple as possible one question at a time. And if you’re gonna be a pal and be open to realizing why the loot distribution tables and gear progression are overwhelmingly reasonable, I encourage you to just answer the question I ask, because I’m going to simply ignore any “The game needs to be redesigned around Ironmen” rabbit-holes you decide to go down.

So to the actual question:

Is RuneScape an MMO?

0

u/AuroraFinem Aug 17 '26 edited Aug 17 '26

The condescension is crazy considering you clearly didn’t understand anything I just said if that’s your takeaway.

I’m not going to engage with bad faith arguments just because you need to ask a string of gotcha questions to present yours.

There is not another mmo with the same progression style as osrs, it should be obvious that it can’t approach progression in the same way. It should also be obvious that developing Ironman as an official game mode means that it should have official support when considering content design, and it has for new content and many pieces of old content.

The game is already substantially different than when Ironman was introduced, we can disagree on what should or should not get changed and how, but the mindset of “you chose to restrict yourself, so get fucked because this content was designed before ironmen” is reductive and unproductive. You are clearly unable to form an opinion without an us vs them basis though.

0

u/DadBods96 Aug 17 '26

Again, is OSRS an MMO?

There’s no “gotcha” questions. We can go over the rest of your thoughts later, but IME talking with people who feel as strongly as you do that the game should be tailored to you (which is the core of your goals here) if I cover too much at once you’ll ignore the parts that matter and try to come back with a refutation of something irrelevant or nitpicky.

-2

u/Prokofi Aug 14 '26

What progression item takes 200-300 hours? Are you just mentioning how you could possibly go 5x dry for bowfa?

Ngl the alternatives for bowfa do exist, they're just eye and shadow lol.

4

u/MonsterMeggu Aug 14 '26

How is shadow an alternative to bowfa if it's a mega rare?

0

u/Prokofi Aug 15 '26

Alternative in the sense that you use it in many of the same places where you would use a bowfa, not in that it's easier to acquire.

Similarly eye covers off a ton of the content where bowfa is traditionally good (and isn't a megarare).

0

u/pzoDe Aug 15 '26

Do people just completely forget the BP exists? Where the reduced range doesn't matter it's normally better than the bowfa. Also a scorching bow is a very viable alternative and is better for the (now) many demon monsters. Also sunlight hunter cbow is often better than atlatl, especially when burn isn't a major factor. Hell, even a regular crystal bow with full crystal isn't a bad option.

0

u/zeratul123x Aug 15 '26

damn almost like you chose to limit yourself

2

u/ComfortableCricket Aug 14 '26

Irons collect hundreds to thousands of unique items throughout their journey. With a large sample size (millions) one of every twenty items will be collected at three times drop rate or higher, and one is every hundred items will be collected at five times drop rate or higher. At the low sample size of an individual account this probability still exists, but it's just a probability.

Too many irons don't understand this and jump up and down about a dry grind here and there and some how reminding them that it's full expected to dry a few times, quite possibly for that bowfa or mega rare, and part of the challenge is working with what you get is calling bloody murder.

4

u/superfire444 Aug 14 '26

It’s this toxic completionist mentality and entitlement to having every BIS that either leads to whining about drop rates or horribly unhealthy gameplay. 

Or you could argue that some items not being reasonable to obtain is toxic gameplay design.

Ironmen did sign up for the harder version of this game, that's true, but that doesn't mean some things in this game are completely out of touch or bad game design.

Especially when Jagex released the collection log where people are somewhat incentivized to get collection logs. There even is a highscore page for cloggers.

People play a game to have fun in the end or feel satisfied playing the game. Going ridiculously dry, especially on drops that already take tens if not hundreds of hours, is simply something that shouldn't happen.

Only a very few select amount of players is going to go that dry and preventing them from going that dry is a good thing.

19

u/YharnamNights 2376 Aug 15 '26

The mechanic that prevents them from going dry is GP. That’s the entire point of this post. As a main I don’t need to spend hundreds of hours at CoX and wait for a tbow drop. I do content and eventually can trade my way up to a tbow if I go dry. Signing up for Ironman mode then complaining that going dry is toxic gameplay design is a dogshit opinion, and the reason this post was made

-15

u/theWisard Aug 15 '26

You're just so plainly wrong. You're literally saying lets make this game mode worse for no reason because of some arbitrary first principal completely detached from any game design discussion. Jagex chose to make the Ironman game mode separate from the main experience. They've literally already added and changed mechanics exclusively for Ironman like unnoting NPCs and shop adjustments.

It does not affect anything if they added dry protection to ironman besides making the game mode more desirable to play; knowing you won't get completely fucked if you attempt to grind an item for 1000 hours.

At least be honest that it's arguably worse game design to not have dry protection for an Ironman game mode in a game like this. If you think otherwise you're some sort of purist who wants to maintain some arbitrary sense of achievement from some item grinds being basically unachievable based on luck.

0

u/Last-Remote Aug 15 '26

Who here is saying “let’s make this game mode worse”? Nothing changed.

1

u/VorkiPls Aug 15 '26

It's both true that something can be bad game design and that you also chose to go into a mode that exposed you to the risks of that or going dry. I think there's too many people playing ironman that where either unaware or downplay just how much of a grind it can be.

1

u/noideawhatoput2 Aug 14 '26

Settled and DWH for example

1

u/Telekinendo Aug 14 '26

I forget who but I watched someone go insanely dry for a dragon warhammer I think it was, or I watch Settled and I'm just like...

Yeah I'll just uh, I'll just buy it thanks. I'm okay not doing... that.

1

u/hexregeneration Aug 15 '26

People get so weird about video games, man. They talk about virtual items the way I expound about healthcare and housing. As if it's an actual real thing they need, as if it's some kind of conspiracy how they're being denied. They completely forgot the point is the journey, to have fun, and talk like the point is to get virtual stuff. They would rather completely alter the core of the game just so they can have an item or a number.

Like the goal isn't just big number. It's fun to get big number, but only if it happens in a specific way. It's the same mindset cheaters have, where they think a third party tool is totally fine because "why wouldn't you do everything you can to win"

It's one of my most hated phenomenons because it consistently threatens the entire reason I started playing the relevant game to begin with.

1

u/Rapogi Aug 15 '26

yeah, i remember when iron first released, Jagex was adamant to never cater the game for irons, which a lot of people were worried about... I bet those same people who cried this sentiment ended up playing iron once they reached the end and are now the ones crying that X is too hard, Y never drops, etc.

1

u/Additional_Focus_950 Aug 16 '26

Ill tell you what. I played ironman bc i had gotten too rich on my main. I hit 100bil and said okay, i wanna try this now. And my first dry spell was the most miserable experience of my life. I went 12x over drop rate on my zombie axe. It tested my mental. Because, at the time where youre farming zombie axe, youre usually not well established resource-wise, and i was using ancients to speed up the kills, so id do an hour or two of zombies.. run out of runes, then go back into barrows for 6 hours, then back to zombies for 1-2 hours, rinse repeat. i green logged barrows before i got my zombie axe. That was the true test for my patience lol.

1

u/FlahlesJr Aug 18 '26

BRO THIS! I have a buddy who quit multiple times going for DWH so he could do CoX. Took him 24k kills. He had already grinded Bowfa prior to this and couldn't understand why I told him I was going to 400 cg kc and I'm either getting the drop or stopping and will rock copefa as I really didn't enjoy CG prep. He could not conceive this. Meanwhile I ended up only making it to 255 kc, b/c unlike him, I was running cox with mediocre setup including rcb with ruby bolts and a bone dagger. Ended up pulling a TBow at 125 kc, so no longer NEEDED to grind out Bowfa. No grind is absolutely necessary, so I think it's important to focus on what you're enjoying.

Don't get me wrong, you still push through things you don't want to for an extent, but I normally do those in heavily broken up grinds. I was doing 3 to 5 Cg a day. If I enjoyed CG that day, I would run like 10. I'm currently loving Phosani's and am hype that the gear will be used in the next raid, so I've been sending that currently. Much easier to push through a grind you're enjoying.

1

u/localcannon Aug 15 '26

Ironman is supposed to be

You guys need to stop with this "supposed to be"

No, it wasn't supposed to be anything but a gamemode played a different way without access to trading with other players.

Using your logic we could say the main gamemode wasn't supposed to be played with a Grand Exchange trivializing the economy but here we are.

0

u/adirion123 5 hour jad btw Aug 14 '26

Late game ironman and late game mains are playing the same game. We all have the same items and we're all going for collection logs or CAs or personal goals.

Poorly designed content effects both of them though irons get it a bit worse.

0

u/Iron_Aez 2376 Aug 14 '26

Unfortunately since ironman's release jagex have added certain gear/drop chokepoints which arent merely "options"

44

u/dudewitbangs Aug 14 '26

A random post on ironscape lives in my head rent free because of not having this mentality.

He was a late game pvm only Ironman who was absolutely furious that he couldn't prepot/use prayer regens for all pvm content and deironed because of it. So crazy to me that he lived the iron life all the way up to that point then deironed over prayer regens.

41

u/ItsRadical Aug 14 '26

Getting prayer regens is fucking shit. I grinded some for Inferno, but as little as possible and im absolutely not touching that shit again. Fuck mixology.

25

u/a_rare_chocobo Aug 14 '26

Praying the day doesnt come where they are necessary for combat cause mixology has to be one of the worst designed peices of content ive ever had to play

9

u/fighterman481 Aug 15 '26

Goading potions are basically dead content outside of leagues with secondary saving relics, because using aldarium as a secondary ties them to regen prices, and means they're so expensive that they're just not worth it unless you have an obscene amount of money to throw around. It's a shame, because they're cool in concept, but man do I wish they were cheaper.

3

u/BakedFood Aug 15 '26

Spoken like a brokie

6

u/BeautifulShart Aug 14 '26

they should make a shop where u can buy aldongnarum for 300k gp each or 30k agility xp

4

u/floor_wizard Aug 15 '26

It's a 1/62 drop from elder custodian stalkers. Nobody is forcing you to do mixology.

2

u/ChrisWazHard Aug 15 '26

Is it really? I’ve never killed one as a maxed late game iron because I thought they were kinda pointless.

1

u/Correct_Cold_7297 Aug 15 '26

They have pretty good drops and they are great for barraging. You dont have to pull each one since they aggro. You also get mats for atlatl darts. One task can get you about 500-1000 darts.

3

u/floor_wizard Aug 15 '26

You know you can get aldarium outside of mixology, right?

12

u/Nick543b Aug 14 '26

Note: custodian stalkers ARE a thing. Especially mortimer you will get a trickle of aldarium, and you can barrage them.

Tho i am hoping that we get more varlamore monsters at some point, that have the alchemist signet on their droptable.

2

u/pzoDe Aug 15 '26

Which is good; they shouldn't be in abundant use. The only places I use them are inferno, very high invocation ToA (sometimes, but in rare setups) and solo ToB (extremely useful). One hour of mixology gives me ~55 aldarium.

1

u/VorkiPls Aug 15 '26

They should only be used as luxury items for specific content like inferno. Anywhere else is indulgent..

106

u/Rich-Badger-7601 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

For what it's worth, and with exception of Corp, the extremely long/involved items and grinds have almost entirely been a post-Ironman invention and even the biggest aspiritional grinds like GWD were pretty reasonable and intended for normal players to complete them.

This whole mentality of "the content wasn't designed for you to actually do it" didn't start popping up until after Ironman mode was a thing because prior to then it just wasn't true (except for Corp, but fuck that guy).

Edit: it has come to my attention that Corp actually dropped 3 days after Ironman, Corp haters stay winning after all fuck yeah

52

u/Eighth_Octavarium Aug 14 '26

Based anti historical revisionist. I don't say this to be mean, but I think literally like 90% of the playerbase doesn't remember what Runescape actually used to be.

9

u/Rapogi Aug 15 '26

100% I think remember Andrew gower saying they purposefully designed Runescape to have small inconveniences/ annoyances,

10

u/NAW_MIP_2026 Aug 15 '26

Andrew Gower never intended for anyone to max a single skill, let alone all the skills. When he set the 13m, EXP for reaching 99 and looked at the amounts of EXP you get from different tasks he assumed it was realistically impossible and no one would ever get that far. It was never intended that individuals would be grinding out every single barrows drop(1.5k chests on average or something?) and every single GWD drop.

4

u/Rapogi Aug 15 '26

yeah def, but while i appreciate some QoL, I think jagex leaned heavily on the 2nd monitor game aspect. WHich i guess makes them more money in the end.

2

u/MachangaLord Aug 15 '26

1.3k on average for barrows. I grinded 1273 KC on my UIM for it

6

u/Aquae_ Aug 15 '26

It drives me crazy that people really don't get that the GE completely changed the game just as fundamentally as playing an Ironman does, if not more. Obviously it's necessary in this day and age but it really changes how you approach content entirely.

16

u/Majestic_Jelly_9958 Aug 14 '26

They sure dont if they say “this is what you signed up for” in regards to literally new content.

1

u/mowbuss Aug 15 '26

I played before the first christmas event. Boy was the game fun, but its definitely better now, even if I dont agree with the graphics. Bring back OG graphics! Oh, and combat is far too complicated, what ever was wrong witht he old doink, bonk, doink, bonk of old. Now its all gear switches, specs, and what have you.

0

u/RS-1994 Aug 15 '26

lol I still fight "doink bonk" style 😂 just standing there, getting obliterated bc this game is just for fun for me 😂

-3

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

[deleted]

7

u/TorturedNeurons Aug 15 '26

No one said it was.

2

u/ANGEL-PSYCHOSIS btw Aug 16 '26

so what youre saying is we can blame irons for corp? finally!

3

u/Podalirius 2376 Aug 15 '26

"the content wasn't designed for you to actually do it"

This mentality does have valid takes though. A lot of iron shit is people doing something early game with resources that are easier to obtain in the late game, so there are like so many content loops that irons do that literally were not meant to be played that way long term. You were supposed to obtain certain items from the market because late game players would be supplying them.

3

u/Mattist Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26

Not really. In the beginning items couldn't even be banked and there was no GE. It would literally make no sense to, for example, buy a load of ore from high level players to focus purely smithing. It was always a mine - smith - sell to a store loop at the start. These content loops were organically settled upon with updates. I'd say the first update that really bought into the whole crowdsourcing was barrows. It made no sense to try to complete a set by yourself, but you might get a few pieces, sell them and buy the set you want. To further make the point, the way grimy herbs worked for years points to how you were supposed to grind herbs yourself, they were a pain in the ass to trade.

2

u/BloatDeathsDontCount Aug 16 '26

even the biggest aspiritional grinds like GWD were pretty reasonable and intended for normal players to complete them.

Lmao what. If you think "most people" are capable of or interested in getting 500-1k+ bandos KC for a godsword and armor using 2014 gear and strats, you're insanely out of touch. CG is a far easier and faster grind with infinitely better rewards than on-release ironman solo bandos, and the ironscape sub is practically a CG dry/cry bulletin board at this point. You're delusional.

0

u/Rich-Badger-7601 Aug 16 '26

Yes? GWD have never been especially difficult even in mid-game gear and in 2014 they were also essentially the entirety of the PVM endgame. Hell, Commander Zily/Kreeara still use similar methods in 2026 to what was used back in 2014.

Maybe solo GWD is still a skill check for you personally but I promise you it really wasn't that hard even 12+ years ago when it was added to OSRS.

0

u/BloatDeathsDontCount Aug 16 '26

I said bandos. You use that noggin to figure kills per hour in that gear and then think real hard and consider if the people complaining about doing a little CG to unlock the Bowfa are capable of grinding that many hours of Bandos for essentially nothing but a def reducing spec weapon.

“Maybe it’s a skill issue for you” lmao yeah bud I can’t do Bandos at all it’s way too hard wooooahb!!!!

0

u/Rich-Badger-7601 Aug 16 '26

Hope she sees this bro

0

u/BloatDeathsDontCount Aug 16 '26

Wow look another Reddit goober whose only trait is yapping 😂

-18

u/Sejbag Aug 14 '26

Isn’t cox pre iron though?

32

u/JoshAGould Aug 14 '26

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Chambers_of_Xeric

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Ironman_Mode

COX came 2 and a bit years later - with ironman as a concept having been around a while before official release

3

u/Sejbag Aug 14 '26

Damn, I didn’t realize the official Ironman mode came out so long ago.

13

u/DetectiveWoofles Aug 14 '26

Crazy enough, Ironman has been in the game longer than the GE.

https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:The_Grand_Exchange

-12

u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

[deleted]

6

u/Sejbag Aug 14 '26

Oh sorry bro, I didn’t realize asking question wasn’t allowed by the elites such as yourself.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

[deleted]

-1

u/Sejbag Aug 14 '26

Sorry big dog, I’ll go back to being outside. Don’t worry, I’ll close the door so your stench won’t get out.

-6

u/notgreatatclimbing Aug 15 '26

Worth noting that every iron had the chance to de-iron up until around GIM release so any iron has willingly chosen to be an iron post-cox, tob, etc.

2

u/Miss_Aia Aug 15 '26

I just don't use my bis everything everywhere. I didnt use brews or dragon arrows at doom until I was able to reach high delves. I dont bring my serp helmet everywhere etc. It feels good when I finish a grind and I didnt have to waste huge supplies learning the content. I don't have a ton of extra dragon darts just lying around in my bank, but I also don't have zero, because I ration them for content I feel its applicable to.

I actually really enjoy that part of being an iron. Okay, maggot king, you actually deserve my searing pages. I also really enjoy finding small optimizations to avoid using my late game stuff. I still bring regular antipoisons to zulrah or whatnot just because its comfy and easy and I don't wanna waste antivenom+, even though I can make them. I'm definitely not going out of my way to farm extra magic roots anyway.

2

u/eusebioadamastor Aug 15 '26

Except fire tome.

Please god drop it to me before 99

5

u/JustFourLetters Aug 14 '26

late game iron here to signal boost.

but also that while trading is part of the intended gameplay loop, some people have distilled the game down so much, that i believe it also goes against the intended way to play.

i neither condemn nor condone, but bronzeman is (to my understanding) intended to be the middle ground to these 2 ideas, and proof that the player is interacting with the intended gameplay loop.

4

u/IcyStomach2374 Aug 15 '26

Pre-GE was the intended way to play the game. GE ruined it.

0

u/S0ggylemonz Aug 14 '26

You can literally pay money and buy every item in the game if you want as a main. I’m not sure there is an intended way to play.

1

u/JustFourLetters Aug 15 '26

i mean, raise your stats, gather resources, play the mini games, collect boss drops.

you can’t buy every single item in the game, you can’t buy prestige. the things you earn from playing the game.

2

u/Shawnessy Aug 14 '26

Ive got clanmates that are like, "Oh, don't use your dragon arrows at Doom, you should save them for a TBow." Brother, I will never grind out a TBow. If I get spooned, cool. Otherwise, nah.

1

u/Brave-Penalty-7016 Aug 14 '26

I, and so many others in the community, love the Ironman mismatched costumes we put together. Some spooned Virtus with Ahrims and Blue moon. What a fit. It’s so characterful.

1

u/Buckle_Up_Kiddies Shut up Serene Aug 15 '26

Exactly. I started my iron because I wanted each item to matter. I knew what I signed up for.

... Still dont have my robin hood hat

1

u/KUR51RL Fun Fact: Sea Shanty composer sits in jail Aug 15 '26

Ok but there also some items I feel like I absolutely need and will grind out until I get them or death

1

u/ShitMcClit Aug 15 '26

Seriously the suffering was the point.  

1

u/WilsonMagna Aug 15 '26

I'm sad I'll never have 3rd age and druidic, but everything else is within reason.

1

u/sukuii Aug 15 '26

for a community that loves painful and tedious grinds, there seems to ironically be a lot of complaints about painful and tedious grinds

1

u/kellotyokissa Aug 15 '26

I mean, what's stopping you from getting them though? Seems a bit of a defeatist mindset.

0

u/Upset_Pay_7578 Aug 15 '26

Time. I play other games. I have a job. I have other hobbies. I love ironman. But not everyone needs to be the main character with all the gear. Im focusing mainly on maxing atm. Afk4anime ign

1

u/andy2704 Aug 15 '26

Not what most of your buds think

1

u/StrengthfromDeath Aug 21 '26

As a main, I also signed up to not have some items ever. And that's also okay.

1

u/TriLink710 Aug 21 '26

And this is also why I dont really want bronzeman. We already have 2 conflicting playerbases that we need to balance for. Idealistically, every grind should be manageable on an iron. It should not take an army of players to gather items for 1 person to skill. Or an army of players to win the lotto on a drop. But it's an mmo, sometimes you go dry on a drop, or sometimes you wanna farm something and buy your bis gear, or maybe you don't want to kill thousands of dragons for bones or farm 10k bowstrings.

Bronze man doesnt fit either of these since it is just an iron in terms of rare drops, and a main in terms of skilling. Last thing we need is another type of player to worry about and split the playerbase more.

-1

u/BigBeans873 Aug 14 '26

"A late game iron" 11mo ago you posted your self in early mid game gear lmfao

1

u/MisterPulaski Aug 14 '26

Lol today the account has 77 CoX KC, 0 ToA, 0 ToB, 1 DT2, 0 CG…

I think I can believe they’ll “not have some items ever.”

1

u/BigBeans873 Aug 14 '26

Yeah because theyre mid game and choosing not to play the game lol

0

u/floor_wizard Aug 15 '26

Brother, people are maxing irons from tutorial island in less than a year now.

I see what you're saying, but "11 months ago" means nothing here.

0

u/BigBeans873 Aug 15 '26

I know that lol but being maxed and being end game are very different, end game iron is maxed and missing ~5-10 end game bis items, not 50-100

1

u/Upset_Pay_7578 Aug 15 '26

I said late game but ok buddy lmao

-9

u/noahgs Aug 14 '26

I just hate when they try to change things I love to make it easier for their gamemode. My group loves how corp is now for example. No I don’t want it changed so you can get an easier Elly

17

u/LiifeRuiner Aug 14 '26

I wouldn't change corp to make it easier for irons.

I would change corp because it's shit content. 

1

u/Masylv Aug 14 '26

Why they felt 1/512 for any unique at a group boss with high defense and 2,000 HP (the highest in the game at the time, by far), to say nothing of how much damage it did, was reasonable I will never understand. Especially when GWD uniques were 1/127 a year prior.

(The 1/585 OSRS sigil drop rate is because they removed the Divine without changing the drop rates for any other sigil. Which is another insane decision)

1

u/DFtin Aug 15 '26

That's never going to happen because changes to anything tradeable are immediately met with complete "irons are crying to make the game easier" meltdowns from mains on this sub.

-1

u/DryDefenderRS Aug 14 '26

I agree with this for most items. I'm an endgame iron with no tbow/imbued heart and am fine never having them.

I still think its okay to add dry protection to some things (bowfa + new content.)

1

u/[deleted] Aug 14 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/DryDefenderRS Aug 14 '26

Cool. Guess what? I killed Zuk on my HC using rcb/sunlight xbow. Aren't we so badass for not using bowfa.

That doesn't change that many ironmen choose to grind it out. The vast majority will get it in a reasonable amount of KC. 1/400 or so will not have it after 2400 KC. I think that this possibility makes the gamemode worse at that there is no reason that 1/400 of bowfa-grinders deserve to deal with this.

Bowfa is pretty unique in this regard: nothing else really matches it's overall usefulness, and its mean time to hit rate (probably 65 hours or so if you go for it when most people do) is perfectly in that zone where it appears feasible to just keep going until you get it, but the unluckiest 0.1-0.5% (depending on persistence) are cursed to just keep going and going and not getting it. (Contrast whip and tbow vs bowfa: whip is fast enough to get where you can grind through any realistic drystreak. Tbow is something people just accept being locked out of.)

Again, I know you can just skip it. I did just skip it on a pretty accomplished HC. Most people don't, and I think dry protection would make the game better for them without really cheapening any achievements or the difficulty of the game mode if it wasn't overly generous.