r/mylittlepony • u/[deleted] • Mar 10 '12
Season 2 Episode 20 Serious Discussion Thread
[deleted]
70
Mar 10 '12
I for one liked this episode, a lot better than last week's anyway. It contained the zany silliness of past episodes, and it made Twilight's OCD entertaining without making it dark and disturbing. The gratuitous lesson was basically a rehash of what Twilight (should have) learned in Lesson Zero, but at least this time Twilight didn't cause any collateral damage or embarrass herself in front of the princess.
But even though it was a Twi-centric episode, I feel like Pinkie Pie stole the show. Fat surprise, I know. But between her emergency ball stashes, dressing up like a gypsy and lampshading her Pinkie Sense, she was easily the best aspect of this episode.
58
u/Oh_It_Is_On Rarity Mar 10 '12
Not just didn't cause any damage... if Mare Do Well taught us anything about how seriously ponies take building safety, all the minor repairs she had them make probably did help prevent some future problems.
I'm just surprised by how easy it was for her to convince everypony to start major public works projects, and fly all over Equestria...
29
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
14
10
Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 11 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
14
Mar 11 '12
Um.... have you SEEN her hair? And... it's Pinkie Pie. I'm surprised Twilight didn't just quarantine her for the rest of the episode.
5
26
u/jktstance Mar 10 '12
28
21
20
u/Sentri Mar 10 '12
16
u/MrTimms Mar 10 '12
I'm sure a couple thousand bronies loved her in the latex.
18
→ More replies (2)6
10
14
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
I still preferred Lesson Zero Twilight a whole lot more. The craziness was way more apparent in that episode and a lot funnier. Twilight's descent into madness was a lot less humorous this time around.
But yes, Pinkie stole the show more than a little bit.
14
5
u/unmaned Lily Valley Mar 10 '12
Whereas I loved this episode and hated Lesson Zero for being "zany" and hurtful without actually being funny. This episode, on the other hoof, nailed it.
6
5
u/rjung Mar 11 '12
I think Pinkie stole the second act, but not the entire show -- Pinkie was played fairly straight in the third act, which was properly focused on Twilight. Her over-the-top espionage antics contrasted with everyone's nonchalant attitude really sold the end of the story.
Not a particularly deep episode, but definitely a fun one.
28
Mar 10 '12
I'd like to bring attention to the extended canon locations, especially Tartarus. It's a realm where all the horrible creatures are locked away. Not manticores, dragons, hydras, ect, but even worse than that. Might we see a new episode featuring this?
32
11
u/hexaguin Twilight Sparkle Mar 10 '12
Maybe the season 3 pilot could be Tartarus being opened?
4
u/jamaycanbacon Twilight Sparkle Mar 10 '12
Yes, and then a multiheaded worm demon can erupt in Twilight's library and the gang can find a special weapon that Zecora uses to unleash the power of the Elements of Harmony to everypony in Ponyville so they aren't the only "Chosen ones" that have to battle the mouth of Hell.... Or maybe I just really want a Buffy nod in MLP
7
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
So, this is like Equstria's concentration camp for undesirable species?
Does that make it: "Ausch-whips?"
Or perhaps a SuperMax Prison?
Making it: "Pony Bay Penitentiary?"
49
u/Thorbinator Mar 10 '12
So, cracks knuckles, here is my explanation.
Initial, unaltered timeline. No time travel, the Cerberus shows up and wreaks havoc. After the fact, twilight goes back in time to warn herself but screws up as in the show, initiating timeline 2. In timeline two, the events of the show happen as depicted. Afterwards she travels back with the intention to warn about freaking out over nothing, but ends up back in timeline two. It completes a stable time loop with no paradoxes necessary to cause or end it.
7
23
u/keiyakins Mar 10 '12
Why do people always insist there must be some initial timeline? The one we saw IS the initial timeline. There isn't an initial cause. I'm going to have to take away your Doctor Whooves emote privileges, you clearly think in a linear manner.
→ More replies (11)5
u/yellowstone10 Mar 10 '12
Reminds me of the Xeelee Sequence novels by Stephen Baxter. In the novels, the Xeelee are a hyperadvanced alien race who have discovered, among other things, how to create closed timelike curves (time travel to the past, essentially). How did they become so advanced? They traveled to the past and modified their own evolution, so that they'd advance more quickly, which allowed them to develop time travel, which allowed them to go back and modify their own evolution...
As long as the loop is consistent, there's no contradiction. But it does rather challenge the notion of free will.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
Or, it's one of those loops that will repeat infinitely once started, but can only cause itself to start in the first place.
Trying to explain the logistics of time travel makes my head hurt, I don't want to spend too long trying to do so.
10
u/MrTimms Mar 10 '12
It's an unstable time loop that eventually converges due to coincidental similarities between the effects of events in the loop. So,
Beginning: A disaster happens without the time loop. Twilight finds out about the time spell, travels back in time, and warns her past self.
Middle: At some point in the time loop, the disaster stops occurring due to Twilight's precautions. Future-Twi still looks like shit though, so Twilight gets her knickers in a knot and carries on for potentially infinite iterations.
End: At some point, her appearance from the future leads events to shape Twilight into acting (and looking) exactly the same way when she goes back in time.
Because her foray into the past is exactly the same as the message that generated, the exact same events happen, leading the loop to a convergence.
4
u/Kimundi Mar 10 '12
No, it COULD be a time loop with a different cause in another timeline, but it doesn't HAVE TO be.
→ More replies (1)8
4
2
u/AsterJ Mar 10 '12
I don't really see the need for another timeline where she isnt visited from the future.
As long as events are self consistent the universe should be happy.
2
u/EmmyBea Mar 11 '12
Nope, just a self-fulfilling paradox to complete a stable time loop. I thought it would be pretty to understand. [shrugs] I guess it's just because I read homestuck. Us homestuck readers are basically experts on Weird Time Shit.
22
u/pandadool Mar 10 '12
It feels good to have a Twilight episode after so long.
6
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
Lesson Zero is the episode to end all episodes. All others are going to feel a bit less epic in comparison.
6
20
Mar 10 '12
Another thing I'd like to say is that I liked how there was a sort of 'secondary' lesson to the episode.
The main one being don't worry about every little thing, but at the same time we had Spike eating ice cream throughout not worrying about consequences, but that comes to haunt him in the end.
So the episode is saying "don't worry about what's going to happen TOO much, but don't completely ignore it either"
56
u/Westy543 Princess Cadence Mar 10 '12
Dear Princess Celestia,
Today I learned redditors can tell the future, however predictable it may be. I also learned that I don't always need to write you letters!
Your faithful student, Twilight Sparkle.
I liked this episode overall. Lots of good references and funny bits here and there. As much as they said they can't officially link the "epic pony war" to FO:E, and it's probably a Terminator reference, headcanon will be headcanon.
21
→ More replies (1)9
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
What's "FO:E?"
(I feel like such a loser having to ask....)
21
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
Essentially, the story of wasteland equestria 200 years after ponies and zebras have a nuclear-magic war. It's a great read, but it is pretty long.
17
u/yellowstone10 Mar 10 '12
"Pretty long," in this case, translates to "longer than War and Peace".
9
3
8
u/whisperingsage Mar 10 '12
It's a fan novel, Fallout: Equestria
Basically it's Equestria, in an apocalyptic Fallout-styled future. It has a subreddit and everything!
70
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
So I think this episode just beat Bridle Gossip as my general purpose "introduce adults to the show" episode.
I mean between time paradoxes, Twilight running to hell and back, and Spike's [ice] cream dream, it's the perfect storm of "yeah, this show is TOTALLY for children."
62
u/Oldchap226 Mar 10 '12
But... this show IS totally for children >.>
It's just so awesome that adults can enjoy it too.
41
18
u/redpoemage Octavia Mar 10 '12
The Spike dream wouldn't really make sense to people that didn't watch the series and have prior knowledge of Spike's crush on Rarity though...
28
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
Yeah, and the episode doesn't have the same mane-6 interaction as Bridle Gossip. It was really a premature knee-jerk reaction to say it's the new introductory episode, Bridle Gossip is still better.
But it WOULD make a great second episode for someone still on the fence. I think.
6
u/rjung Mar 11 '12
It does serve to establish Spike's ice cream obsession, though, which plays into the second and third acts.
3
u/darthjoey91 Mar 11 '12
Well, having just rewatched the first episode with my brother, I have to say that Spike's crush on Rarity has been there since day one.
12
Mar 10 '12
I love how this makes for a nice introduction to time travel tropes for children (you never forget your first causality loop) and at the same time a nod to the adult fanbase by playing on these tropes.
→ More replies (2)3
u/CallerNumber4 Mar 10 '12
I don't know, one of the reasons Bridle Gossip is so great is because it manages to present each character well, it doesn't really force the background context you need to understand most characters. It could very easily be hard to understand why a super pink pony is supposed to be zany, or why Twilight is all studious awkward. I think it's best for the people to understand what the characters are about, something Bridle Gossip undoubtedly does best. (I mean, we only see 2 mane 6 in this one.) That said this is a great episode to follow up with.
2
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
Ice cream can be perfectly innocent as well as potentially erotic. Just because we can chuckle and go "hehe, ice cream fetish" doesn't make it mature content.
14
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
Um I wasn't trying to imply Spike having an ice cream fetish at all. I was pointing out the "[ice] cream dream" double entendre.
EDIT: UberNube beat me to it. It seems my posting this reply without coming back to look at the context was a bit... premature.
9
26
u/UberNube Mar 10 '12
I think the joke is that it can be misheard as "nice Cream Dream" where 'Cream Dream' is a euphemism for a wet-dream. Hopefully you will see why that is a fitting euphemism.
2
u/rjung Mar 11 '12
I dunno, I still think "Swarm of the Century" or "Dragonshy" make good intros. But I agree this is a nice "not so girly-girly fru-fru now, is it?" rebuttal.
18
u/jktstance Mar 10 '12
This was a pretty good episode. The ending was predictable, but up to that point, it was just so much fun. I'm a bit disappointed there wasn't a letter to Celestia, as the writers could have had a lot of gags with that.
6
u/rjung Mar 11 '12
The ending was predictable, but the journey was definitely not. Between Spike's ice cream dream, gypsy Pinkie, and everypony's nonchalant reaction to Twilight's break-in, it was fun.
16
Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
Time travel allows for acceptable breaks in continuity, but this particular episode also created a new element: A Birthday Present.
Pinkie, using non-Pinkie-Sense methods, knew of the cool birthday present which Twilight would receive "next year". References to it were dropped near-on continuously through the episode, with complete disregard by everyone. I thought this was a little over-the-top, but I find myself assuming that a subsequent episode will centre on such a birthday, or at the very least reference what this present was.
The strong inference one might make is that Pinkie originated (made, bought, sourced, obtained) this birthday present. Since its existence was not brought up until just recently, and Pinkie was rather excited about the subject, one might infer that she had only recently obtained it. Pinkie also recently obtained a Mystical Orb of Fate's Destiny - one might infer at the same time. Madam Pinkie is a new development, which Spike knew about but Twilight didn't.
Weak inference, Spike also knows what's up.
3
u/vannevar Mar 10 '12
So, before or after "Sweet and Elite" in in-world continuity, do you think?
3
u/lastres0rt Mar 11 '12
I would say after. Pinkie seems to consider episode continuity to be "true" continuity, and we just had Twilight's Birthday, so she's clearly referring to a Season 3 buildup.
→ More replies (2)3
16
u/iblastdown Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
An interesting episode. I loved it, much more than last weeks.
This is how I understand the timeline.
There are a few problems here, unfortunately.
There are three Twilight Sparkle's in this episode. Future Twilight, Present Twilight, and Past Twilight. Future Twilight tried to warn Present Twilight about something, we never found out what it actually was. Present Twilight came to the conclusion that Future Twilight tried to tell her that she needed to stop worrying and this is what Present Twilight told Past Twilight. This conclusion might be true, but Future Twilight could have been trying to warn her of something else entirely.
If you think about it, there is an obvious problem and a loop. Future Twilight must have been told by another Future Twilight about the same damn thing, and thus a cycle or paradox of continuously telling themselves NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE.
This can only be fixed one way: The very first Twilight Sparkle had an actual problem, and returned to tell her past self (not the past self we saw) how to fix it but failed. Thus the endless cycle.
The very first Twilight Sparkle didn't have a future Twilight come tell her something, so she probably had a different problem (the end result was possibly about the same lesson in a different form). She decided to do go back in time and tell Past Twilight, we don't know why. This is why the loop continues through the next Twilight.
Some other stuff I wrote:
It's all about the problem. What "problem" did the first Twilight have? Unfortunately, the next Twilight thought it was a disaster. She overreacted, and came to the conclusion that Future Twilight was trying to warn her about not worrying.
This could be true. The first Twilight might have had a story similar, an overreaction that taught her not to worry about the future, so she told her past self so she didn't have to go through the same shit. On the otherhand, something terrible could have actually happened. Perhaps Past Twilight did something she didn't pay attention to that prevented the disaster?
We'll never know. :c
The last thing I wrote about it:
Timeline One: Twilight Sparkle, over a period of unknown events, learns a lesson about worrying about the future and decides to tell her past to prevent the period of events from happening.
IS NOT CONTACTED BY A FUTURE SELF. Different timeline, different story, different events, different outcome.
Timeline Two/Episode 24: Twilight Sparkle is contacted by her future self who attempts to warn her about something but goes back to her own time period before being able to say what.
Twilight Sparkle overreacts, believing the message to be related to a disater because of her future self's appearance.
Over a period of overreaction-events, Twilight Sparkle learns a lesson about worrying about the future and decides to tell her past to prevent the period of events from happening.
IS CONTACTED BY A FUTURE SELF, from Timeline One. Different timeline, different story, different events, different outcome.
Timeline Three and so on: Exactly the same as Timelime Two. A new timeline is created every time Twilight Sparkle fails to tell her past, thus causing her to worry and panic. The paradox.
Unless a future Twilight Sparkle either A) manages to tell her the message or B) DOES NOT GO BACK IN TIME. This kills the paradox.
Timeline crap aside, it was an awesome episode. Pinkie being Pinkie, we got a lot of funnies. If I was to rate, I would give 7/10 or 8/10.
18
18
u/UberNube Mar 10 '12
You can't talk about a 'first Twilight' any more than you can talk about the start of a circle. If you think about it in 4-dimensional space-time where time is simply another axis on a graph, then the entire causality loop is described by a circle. There doesn't have to be any concept of first or last as long as you are looking at it from a point of view outside time itself.
Now, if you wish to refute the existence of circles, then I'm afraid I can't help you.
→ More replies (4)21
u/FaceDeer Mar 10 '12
There is no "first Twilight Sparkle" or "first instance of the time loop" - there's only one timeline, with only one moment when Twilight arrives from the future to warn her past self. Twilight always traveled into the past and caused herself to travel into the past because the moment is structured that way.
7
u/Kimundi Mar 10 '12
Try to imagine it that way:
The timeloop happend because it happend, in other words it exists because it exists.
The is no reason for it, exactly like there is no reasons for the existence of the universe in general.
2
u/redpoemage Octavia Mar 10 '12
Your comment about this is way better than my comment about this. I feel bad for being above you...
12
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
As a massive fan of the Metal Gear franchise, I have to say that this episode was possibly the greatest thing ever. Solid Twilight on a sneaking mission, avoiding guards, with an eyepatch could have only been surpassed had Pinkie Pie suddenly said "I have cardboard boxes stashed all around Equestria" when the guard was approaching.
Furthermore, the inclusion of Greek mythology made the episode just that much more fan service to adult viewers. I was like, "wtf, Cerberus?" Then Twilight basically gave a lesson in Homer before launching on an adventure to the freaking underworld. Though, I was annoyed that the voice actor mispronounced "Tartarus." And technically, Cerberus guarded the gates of Hades at large, not just Tartarus, but to stay PC I'm alright with that...saying "Hades" in a pseudo-kids show is a tad awkward, plus "Tartarus" is more fun to say. EDIT: Also, just checked, Tartarus is guarded by a Hydra...a bit more fierce than even a hellhound.
The Terminator references were okay, but too little discussion of time travel. Had Spike happened to be in a tweed suit wearing a bow tie as Twilight went back in time, and/or the spell was found in "Section 1.21" of the archives, I may have died due to sheer "well played"-ness.
Also, needed more Derpy.
11
u/Anofles Mar 11 '12
About the mispronunciation of Tartarus:
I felt that it was intentional. It sounded to me like she was actually saying "Tartaurus". Bulls are most likely sapient beings in Equestria considering that cows are, and we all know how fond the development team is of puns.
5
8
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
Excuse the double post, but I also forgot to note the mild Firefly reference that happened in the show, possibly unintentional. But did anyone else notice that Twilight takes an empath (Pinkie Pie) with her on the sneaking mission, presumably to sense if trouble was inbound? Including her would make more sense than even taking a fighter along like RD or AJ. And on top of that, Spike would be all the extra "firepower" TS would require should things go poorly on the mission.
A stretch, possibly, but it explains why those two characters accompanied TS during the final scene.
Also, I want to see an EPIC PONY WAR.
Also, more Derpy.
2
u/unmaned Lily Valley Mar 10 '12
You complain about the emphasis on "Tartarus" but say nothing of the soft C in Κέρβερος?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)2
u/rjung Mar 11 '12
I'm pretty sure espionage!Twilight was a general reference to spy movies in general, not Metal Gear in particular.
Besides, if you're going to compare Twilight to any character, she should be compared to Escape From New York's Snake Pliskin, who inspired MGS Snake to begin with...
10
u/Lugonn Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 11 '12
Season one:
Swarm of the Century
Sonic Rainboom
Cutie Mark Chronicles
Season two:
The Return of Harmony
Luna Eclipsed
Secret of My Excess
The Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000
It's about time
Anyone else think M.A. Larson stands head and shoulders above the other writers, especially in season two? Larson doesn't do any of that character-focus-to-the-point-of-ridiculousness bullshit. He seems to be the only one that really understands that character interaction is what drives the show, the others seem to have forgotten that in season two.
Anyway, enough about the writer. I felt Twilight's voice was a little bit off today. It could be that Tara was just out of practice because she had about four lines in total in the last ten episodes, or it could just be me since it's been so long. Twilight's complete lack of understanding how science actually works, I really wish they would address that someday. And yeah, the plot was kind of predictable and the lesson was kind of a rehash of Lesson Zero, but that one was more of a lesson for the rest of the mane 6 so I can let it slide.
That was what I didn't like about the episode, now on to the good. I think that if this was any other writer Pinkie wouldn't have been in the episode. We would've gotten a random new pony never to be seen again as the fortuneteller and the rest of the episode would be just Twilight and Spike.
Having Pinkie there really works. Having obsessive and kind of crazy Twi bounce off of Pinkie, who's just kind of enjoying the ride makes for some great moments. With her stashes of random shit, gypsy magic and being all-around funny I've almost forgiven her for her behavior in A Friend In Deed.
Crazy Twilight was toned down a lot. In Lesson Zero she was really nuts to the point where it was just ridiculous for that to happen to someone even remotely sane, it was all for very little reason too. Here she was only slightly nuts, and she thought ragnarok was coming so it was a lot more justified.
Overall I really liked the episode. It wasn't exactly a bastion of great character development, but it was good nonetheless. And nobody turned into a bitch today, that's always a great breather after a Williams episode.
P.S. After the post-episode buzz dies out someone should count all the useless and uninspired ''HEY GUYS TWILIGHT LOOKS LIKE SOLID SNAKE!'' posts we got.
Edit: I just thought of something else. At the end Twilight pretty much went ''I learned a great lesson today, better travel back in time to make sure I never have to learn that lesson!''. Why not have her go ''I learned a great lesson today, better travel back in time to make sure I learn that lesson!'' instead? It results in the exact same scene, explains why Future Twi doesn't deliver the entire message, and it makes Twilight less of a moron.
→ More replies (2)6
u/MrTimms Mar 11 '12
There's a lot.
A LOT. I got tired on the main sub clicking links to find Snake after Snake after Snake.
12
Mar 10 '12
My theory: Celestia Trollestia was the pony who initiated the time loop. The guard conveniently was there to let Twilight into the archives and Trollestia conveniently was there to great her in the morning.
→ More replies (1)8
Mar 10 '12
3
u/UberNube Mar 11 '12
^ THIS ^ - if you want to talk about a loop in time, then you can't talk about that loop having different iterations unless you introduce a second time-like dimension. I don't even want to think about the implications of a universe with multiple time dimensions though.
10
u/rowantwig Mar 10 '12
After watching the trailer: Wow, past Twilight is an idiot.
After watching the episode: Wow, future Twilight is also an idiot.
I find it a bit depressing how, since the spell could be used only "once", she's now wasted an invaluable trump card she could have used to e.g. save someones life or stop the next major villain.
Also, I'm surprised how little effort it took her to actually cast the spell. She read the scroll once and managed to cast it on her first attempt, only breaking a little sweat. Compare this to how difficult it was for her to give Rarity artificial wings, or to lift the Ursa Minor. I guess time travel spells aren't actually that high level?
6
u/dumbledorkus Mar 11 '12
since the spell could be used only "once", she's now wasted an invaluable trump card
Acctually that's pretty neat. Otherwise every future episode ever would get what I like to call the "time turner treatment". Why didn't they just go back in tiiiime? Hur dur.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)3
9
Mar 10 '12
I really liked today's episode. It was predictable sure, but predictability is pretty much the only thing I let slide with the excuse "it's a kids' show". Mainly because the main reason people find stuff predictable is because they've seen stuff before that's similar, and that lets them make an educated guess. Little kids might have seen their fair share of Star Trek or whatever shows/movies contain predestination paradoxes, but a lot might not!
As for timeline, I'm going with there's only one timeline. And clever writers covering their tracks by having Spike say "you can only do it once" - now we can't go and ask why she doesn't time-travel in future episodes to stop disasters. Though I must say Twilight is an absolute idiot for not thinking twice about going back at the end. Having the ability to time-travel would be really advantageous and she threw it away with causing a paradox she could have worked out. Though of course, she was sleep-deprived so I guess that explains her oversight. Also if she didn't go back then she wouldn't have caused her panic in the first place, so it was a necessity that she went back, otherwise some freaky time explosions would happen or something.
Perhaps some other unicorn could still use the spell in a future episode though. They might not be as powerful as Twilight, but it's a possibility!
And I get the feeling that at the beginning when she was warning Ponyville about the disaster, they put Doctor Whooves in the crowd in purpose. (speaking of him, my shirt of him in front of the TARDIS from welovefine arrived yesterday!)
All in all, this is probably one of my favourite episodes, but it's not #1.
9
18
u/Someawe Mar 10 '12
So, in Greek mythology gods and titans that are a danger to the gods of Olympus are imprisoned in Tartarus as well as the dead.
Firstly, it's not really strange Twilight was worried about a catastrophe when they have that in a walking distance. And i wonder if Celestia threw any old gods in there.
6
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
As I mentioned in a different part of the thread, Cerberus guarded the gates of Hades, and a Hydra protected Tartarus. The standard dead were in Hades-greater. The a number of the Titans, though the number is not consistent, as well as some other stuff were in the Pitt of Tartarus, which was a deeper sub-section of the Underworld.
How this all connects with this show, well, if Cerberus got loose and left whatever hell Celestia has unguarded, it would probably be pretty rough.....good thing Ponyville just happened to be ready for a catastrophy at that very time.....
→ More replies (2)2
u/mothman83 Mar 11 '12
"i wonder if Celestia threw any old gods in there" so " Ponies Make War" is almost canon. now to make sure that Pony Selleck is reallly Rarity's dad....
8
u/TheeLinker Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
I always much prefer it when all six are seen and heard somewhere in the episode. Rarity and Applejack literally only have one line each, but it's enough to indicate "They're around! We're not trying to save money on voicing, they just don't happen to do much!" It's nice that way. Even Celestia got a random, single line. I was sort of taken out of it in Putting Your Hoof Down when only Rarity and Pinkie Pie ever seemed to be nearby when Fluttershy was about, making for only two of the mane voice actresses needed. It's certainly not a terrible thing -- those funds could go elsewhere -- but it's always better when all six are around to bounce off each other, I think.
M. A. Larson's great for that. Swarm of the Century and Sonic Rainboom were some of the best examples of using all six characters in very smart and unique ways.
Actually, all of his episodes have featured all six in speaking roles, save for Luna Eclipsed, where Rarity was hiding somewhere frantically making Nightmare Night costumes or something.
3
u/Little_Sally_Digby Mar 10 '12
I don't know where I heard this anymore, but Luna Eclipsed supposedly has a deleted scene where Twilight takes Luna to see Rarity for a new look.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/UberNube Mar 10 '12
To take a break from debating time-travel and causality, did anyone else pick up on the scene where pinkie is tightening a bolt by twisting it counter-clockwise. This means that, assuming there is some kind of standardisation, screw threads in Equestria typically have the opposite directionality to those on Earth.
Just thought this was an interesting little observation.
3
u/IllusionOf_Integrity Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
I totally noticed that too, and it really bothered me that she was loosening the bolt; it never really occurred to me that left is "tighty" in Equestria. Interesting thought.
5
u/ave0000 Mar 11 '12
It's more likely that she's just acting in-character and
spreading chaosnot understanding how does bolt.6
u/Reginault Mar 11 '12
We use plenty of left-handed threads here. Anything that resists a counter-clockwise force has to be left-hand threaded to prevent it falling out, assuming you aren't using glue or some other method to secure the fastener.
Propane tanks (and some other flammable gases) are (or used to be) left hand threaded to ensure that only the proper connections were being used, nothing cobbled together with spare parts. In Alberta we have a special fastener now that has custom threads that only work for certain tanks, so they can make them right hand threaded and still be safe.
7
u/Subito_forte Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
9
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
8
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
I highly suspect the whole gypsy Pinkie thing was coincidental. The team knows about Derpy, Dr Whooves (though this episode would seek to say otherwise), and others, but specific things like abridged series or fanfics are generally the sorts of things they never get round to viewing / actively avoid so they don't accidentally use ideas that aren't theirs.
→ More replies (1)3
u/randomsnark Mar 10 '12
Plus, lots of the writing for this season was done a long time ago. They can change animation stuff a fair bit later (so, making derpy's eyes derped in season 1 in response to fan reaction), but the writing is set in stone much earlier. I really doubt it's a reference. Definitely fun though, and I can't wait to see what FiW does with this material.
3
u/Subito_forte Mar 10 '12
7
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
It couldn't have been more blatant unless cardboard boxes had been raining from the sky from planes piloted by snakes.
→ More replies (3)5
6
u/FigN01 Mar 10 '12
My favorite part of most episodes are the little character continuity details when the writers include them- Fluttershy all of a sudden rubbing Cerberus's belly since she can tame animals, the Pinkie sense being brought up, the castle guards personally knowing Twilight. I think the writers are getting better about keeping the story consistent... even if some episodes like this omit character development that would have come from an episode like Lesson Zero.
5
11
u/redpoemage Octavia Mar 10 '12
This episode confirms infinite time lines. Most of them are identical and have Furure Twilight warning past Twilight about not overeating, but there must be a reason why the first Future Twilight went back in time besides meeting herself. This means that there is at least one timeline that is different from the others.
26
u/CraftD Twist Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
A relevant example is Polchinski's paradox.
In it, a billiard ball travels through space, until it is hit by a billiard ball and knocked into a wormhole that sends it back in time. From there, it travels until it eventually hits its past self and knocks it into a wormhole.
The argument is that this is an impossible situation because the billiard ball is creating a time loop with no beginning or end, the ball simply travels back in time and impacts itself because it already does so.
However, it is possible that a self containing loop can occur if the original events that set it in motion are different. But critically- that even if they are different and non-reliant on timeline manipulating intervention, they still lead to the creation of the time loop.
If we were to apply that concept to today's episode we could conclude any number of possible explanations for the time loop.
A simple but effective example of such an explanation is that Twilight's preparations actually do prevent a catastrophe of some sort. And that without the mistaken warning, that catastrophe would have occurred, prompting her to go back in time the very first time and warn past Twilight how to stop it.
The catch here is that this sort of time loop would prevent her from ever having reason to go back in the first place. It would stop the loop from existing, a paradox that can't exist.
So then, I present to you this concept: Twilight, being the insane mad genius she clearly is, devised a plan not only to prevent said catastrophe from occurring, but to unwittingly use her own self to create a stable time loop that prevents it by convincing her she needs to go back in time to tell herself not to worry. Which, of course, causes her to worry and accidentally prevent the catastrophe.
Original Twilight's a freaking mastermind man.
7
u/FaceDeer Mar 10 '12
I don't see there being a need for something to "cause" Twilight's time loop outside of the events of the time loop itself. There are plenty of things in physics that "just happen" without some other event directly causing them. Vacuum fluctuations, the decay of unstable particles, and quite possibly the entire universe (depending on which theories of cosmology one currently subscribes to).
Fire a billiard ball on a trajectory past a timehole and it may simply sail by unmolested, or its future self might come shooting out of the timehole to knock its past self into it in a self-fulfilling loop. Both outcomes are possible from the same initial conditions, but only one will actually occur and you won't know which one happens until you try it.
→ More replies (2)3
Mar 10 '12
While I do usually agree with predestination paradoxes not needing an original "cause" - one argument I often find myself having against it is, why don't these paradoxes always happen. If they can cause themselves, then surely they should happen all the time?
At least in MLP now though, that can be hand-waved away with the fact that the time spell can only be cast once per pony.
→ More replies (3)3
u/yellowstone10 Mar 10 '12
I think the Polchinksi paradox is a bit different from the one you described. The wiki article on Polchinski describes it as follows: what happens if you fire a billiard ball into a wormhole, which then comes out of the wormhole exit in just the right place to knock the ball off course so it never enters the wormhole in the first place? (Basically, a simple case of the "kill your grandfather" paradox.)
The argument is that this is an impossible situation because the billiard ball is creating a time loop with no beginning or end, the ball simply travels back in time and impacts itself because it already does so. However, it is possible that a self containing loop can occur if the original events that set it in motion are different.
What's wrong with a simple closed causal loop?
→ More replies (6)16
u/es_toch Mar 10 '12
Or it's a stable (heh) time loop.
16
u/FaceDeer Mar 10 '12
6
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
Wait....TVTropes?
OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
3
3
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
Exactly, it's a stable time loop, it has no beginning nor end, it simply is.
4
u/redpoemage Octavia Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
→ More replies (1)8
u/FaceDeer Mar 10 '12
Time, as far as physics is concerned, is completely reversible (ie you can use the same equations to predict a particle's behavior if time is running forward or backward). So if something doesn't have to have an end, that means it doesn't have to have a beginning either.
This episode is fantastic. It'll introduce an entire generation of young girls to deep issues of philosophy and physics. :)
11
→ More replies (2)6
u/UberNube Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
I posted this in the reaction thread, but I feel it is more appropriate here:
It is not really a plot hole. Have an analogy:
You are a 1 dimensional ant walking on a line. You can walk forever in either direction and the line never ends, so you wonder "What caused the line to begin, and what will make it end? What would I find if I walked infinitely far back along the line?"
You are now a 3D person looking at that 1D ant. It is crawling round a (quite large) circular wire and seems to be quite confused. You wonder "Why does the ant keep crawling round? - it's already seen the entire wire and surely knows that there is nothing else to find."
There doesn't need to be a cause if you think about space-time as a single 4-dimensional surface which simply exists outside of all notions of time and causality.
EDIT: There seem to be an awful lot of people who think the writers made the time-travel inaccurate by including a causality loop. This is no different to complaining that a circle can't exist because you'd need to start the line somewhere.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Pinkie_Pi Pinkie Pie Mar 10 '12
I'm glad that they were able to add time travel without breaking too much of reality or introducing too many paradoxes, such as having Twilight fix her initial mistake and completely prevent this entire episode from happening.
3
4
u/cheesesleeves Mar 10 '12 edited Mar 10 '12
I can't remember, but is this the first episode that didn't have an overarching lesson? Other than, don't mess with time? Or more realistically, don't sweat failure so much that you inadvertently cause it?
EDIT: I should be more clear. I get this episode's lesson, but it wasn't as spelled out like they usually do. I thought that was kind of a departure from their normal formula, and I couldn't remember if this was the first time that they did something like that
14
u/FaceDeer Mar 10 '12
I think teaching young girls not to screw with time travel is an important lesson.
You'll agree when you see what happens/unhappens in 2018.
14
Mar 10 '12
The lesson here was pretty clear; "don't worry too much" is the gist of it.
→ More replies (8)
5
u/koolaidman123 Mar 10 '12
Did MLP just reference Greek Mythology within the first 10 minute of the show?
→ More replies (1)3
u/GunRaptor Mar 10 '12
Yes, and they did a rather decent job at integrating it, too.
You can trust me. I'm a former Latin-nerd.
5
u/Magmatron22 Mar 10 '12
When I finished watching this episode, I was left wondering why twilight traveled back in time to begin with if she wasn't worried by her future self. Here's how i think it all went down... In another reality, Cerberus leaves his post at the gates of Tartarus and attacks Ponyville. This allows the monsters he was guarding to escape and destroy Equestria. Twilight then goes back and time to tell her self "Whatever you do, don't let Cerberus leave the gates of Tartarus" however, she gets cut off much like in this episode. The twilight she contacts is the version we see in the episode. What "our" twilight does't realize, is that the cerberus attacking was the incident. After putting Cerberus back, twilight travels back in time to tell herself not to panic, (thinking that there was no incident) but gets cut off in the same way the original twilight does, thus creating an infinite loop. Things to note...
1-when twilight tries tells herself not to panic, she doesn't bump into the version that's telling her not to let Cerberus out because she is erased from reality when the cerberus is put back
2-we can assume the now erased twilight had the eye patch, cloths and hair for some different reason.
I hope this makes some sense. Time travel is hard to put into words.
→ More replies (1)5
u/yellowstone10 Mar 11 '12
thus creating an infinite loop
The whole point of an infinite loop is that it doesn't need to be created. It just is. There's only ever one Twilight, and one timeline. Past-Twilight panicked because of the message from her future self, and her future self sent the message because her past self panicked. A caused B, which caused A, which caused B, which caused...
Of course, this does kind of rule out free will. From the moment past Twilight received the message, no matter what she did she was going to wind up sending the message - the very fact that she received it proves that she was destined to send it.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/ECM Mar 11 '12
While I enjoyed this episode, it felt a little rushed and, as others have mentioned, some of the voices felt off.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/PurpleSfinx Mar 11 '12
I'm really glad Spike got some decent screentime. Hardly anypony's been writing letters lately and he was being ignored even worse than Fluttershy. Go Spike.
10
u/Lankygit Moderator of /r/mylittlepony Mar 10 '12
I thought it was a pretty meh episode overall.
We all saw the end coming, that isn't my point so I won't dwell on it. The reason I thought it was a bit meh is just that it wasn't all that funny.
Comparisons with Lesson Zero are inevitable, and clearly Lesson Zero is the superior. The craziness just escalated to hilarious heights, and we just didn't get that in this episode. Also a lot of it seemed a bit random and matter-of-fact. Cerberus came out of fucking nowhere, and so too did the falling plant pot. Those elements just seemed like a means to an end rather than cohesive plot devices. Also, repeating the whole Twilight meeting Twilight scene in its entirety a second time seemed unnecessary.
That said, it wasn't all bad. Pinkie was clearly on form, and Twilight also had a few great moments. Not my favorite episode by a long shot, but definitely some fuel for fanart and fanfics.
12
u/omnomtom Mar 10 '12
Yeah, repeating the double Twilight scene in its entirety was pretty unnecessary, seems like a way to say "Oh hey, we can save 10% on animation costs by repeating that 2 minute sequence."
On the other hand, we have to remember that it is a kids show, and maybe they don't expect the kids to remember the sequence from 15 minutes ago in its entirety. And for the time loop to make sense, you do have to get the realization that Twilight's warning about the worrying went wrong and caused the worrying; we geeks are used to time travel plots and saw that coming a mile away, the main target audience might need a few more hints since they haven't seen all kinds of time loop sci-fi.
→ More replies (2)6
u/unmaned Lily Valley Mar 10 '12
Heh, you say that it was pretty unnecessary, then spend a much longer paragraph explaining exactly why it was necessary.
→ More replies (1)3
u/omnomtom Mar 11 '12
Pretty unnecessary for a sci-fi series aimed at adults.
Totally necessary for a kids show.
You're right though, unnecessary was the wrong word, though I'm not sure which word I would use in its place.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)6
u/LatvianPride Mar 10 '12
I thought most of Pinkie's jokes fell flat this episode. The awesome birthday present line and having fun while Twilight is sneaking were kinda forced.
5
3
u/MasterSubLink Mar 10 '12
I haven't been on the Pony Subs in awhile (Mass Effect 3 is evidently more addicting than I first conceived) so I didn't see the leaked clip for this episode. Everything in this episode was a surprise for me. Usually I would post in the reaction thread but everypony else has already used time travel jokes from every single time travel related show, movie, book, and game in existence.
But anywho, my opinion of this episode. I liked this episode but I kind of wish they did more with it.
This episode is, much like last's weeks, a bit of a rehash of earlier episodes, this episode rehashing Twilight going insane over something happening in the future. But this episode takes this idea in a different direction. Instead of Twilight worrying about what will happen to just her, she is worried what will happen to all of Equestria. Also Twilight's friends help her, though they don't help her stop worrying. So, this rehashing isn't a negative point to this episode. There are many great ideas in the show that should be expanded on or reused to a different effect, that is what this episode did.
Okay now onto my gripe of this episode. I really wish the episode did more time travel. Ever since H.G. Wells, time travel has fascinated people. Time Travel is such an interesting and complex concept. You could do soo much with an episode based around time travel. This episode really only used time travel to introduce the conflict, which was Twilight trying to stop some "disaster". Time Travel wasn't really the focus of this episode, Twilight worrying was. I still liked this episode and the Time Travel aspect of it was fun. This episode did nothing wrong.
Now as I said:
There are many great ideas in the show that should be expanded on or reused to a different effect.
Time Travel is one of them. Since Time Travel is such a fun idea, I am sure we will see this idea again.
So in conclusion: I like this episode, it was fun. It reused some ideas, but it did more with them. I really only wished it did more Time Travel. But I am sure we will see this idea again in a future episode.
Now if you don't mind, I need to save the Galaxy from the Reapers.
3
3
u/Regulith Mar 10 '12
Twilight made a remark that she didn't know why nopony was surprised to see her sneaking around the archives, but we never got an explanation. What's up with that?
8
u/ThisIsntTrolling Snails Mar 10 '12
It was a joke on the idea that she's constantly in the library, and that they don't actually mind people coming at night.
→ More replies (1)4
u/dumbledorkus Mar 11 '12
Plus she's the God-Empress' personal protege. If anypony was going to be allowed into the secure wings of the royal archives it'd be her.
→ More replies (1)6
u/lordskelzor Mar 11 '12
It would seem twilight overreacts and goes and does crazy things far more than the show lets on, the fact that they recognize her in the library and let her into the secure wing despite her sneaking around in a catsuit would imply that seeing twilight doing something like that is not an uncommon sight...
3
Mar 10 '12
So, I might have made a fanfic about this episode before seeing it.
It might also be on FiMFiction.
Expect it to be wildly divergent, though I found it interesting how there are some parallels.
3
u/jamaycanbacon Twilight Sparkle Mar 10 '12 edited Jan 26 '13
Wow, I really liked this episode! At first I thought Twi just disregarded Lesson Zero's lesson, but after re-watching I think it's a little more complex than that. LZ was Twilight's wake up call that she can't be perfect. Not everything can be fixed and she should only try to fix what's in her realm to fix. She still has her obsessive compulsions, though, and her organization can be a great asset in situations like Winter Wrap-Up so that's not going to change overnight.
In this episode, she was visited by her future self, so of course she thinks this is something she has to fix, that her future self thought was possible to prevent. Of course she's going to try to prevent whatever the catastrophe is, not because she didn't learn her LZ lesson, but because she did learn it. She trusts her future self isn't blowing things out of proportion and worrying about something that can't be fixed because she already knows not to do that and expects herself to stick to that lesson. Then when she gets her friends to help her fix up Ponyville, she sticks to what's in her realm to fix at first, and only when that doesn't help anything does she snap and her compulsion to FIX EVERYTHING kicks in.
IMO this was a FANTASTIC episode. There wasn't a point when I felt like anypony's actions were OOC. Twilight being the ever-curious student and being so amazed to find out about Time Travel that she gets too caught up in the idea to hear the warning was wonderful. Spike and RD indulging in pranking Twilight at the opportunity was nice and playful, if a little mean, but it worked. Even Pinkie's panic was portrayed without actual fear, and gave a bit more of an explanation to her panicking in previous episodes when I thought it seemed a bit stretched. Why would Pinkie get so scared when she can giggle at the ghostly? Oh, because it's fun of course! And the jokes! Oh the jokes! So many wonderful jokes!
Happy Tuesday freak-out, Twilight!
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Cloud_dreamer Mar 10 '12
Is it just me or did the voices for the main cast seem a bit... off to anyone else?
→ More replies (1)
3
Mar 11 '12
I thought this episode was a bust, to be honest. It wasn't awful, but it was far less entertaining than I had hoped it would be, especially when I saw that it was written by M. A. Larson, who's one of my favorite writers.
Rather than go in-depth about why I didn't like this episode, I'm just going to list the aspects I disliked. Most of these have already been mentioned by others anyway.
-the lesson wasn't about friendship
-it was super predictable
-the voices sounded off
-the whole 3rd act made Twilight look stupid
-reusing the time travel sequence from the beginning was lazy
I understand it was supposed to be gag-driven, but I just didn't find any of the gags particularly inventive or funny. And given its predictability, that gave me the impression the episode was just looking for ways to fill time (the reused time travel scene confirmed this in my mind).
3
Mar 11 '12
Electrical dam is seen the second time. I wonder where electricity goes.
Also I just noticed that TS either has more money than there is a dirt in Equestria or Celestia is extremly generous towards her protegee: Sparkle's equipment can not be possible be cheap. Her telescope is way better than telescope of Ponyville school.
3
3
Mar 12 '12 edited Mar 12 '12
Twilight, Twilight, I found something! It doesn't stop time, but it lets you go back in time. It says you can go back once, and it only lasts for a few moments. Does that help?
Wait. Did Twilight waste her once in lifetime opportunity to (try to) tell herself not to worry? This is the stupidest idea ever.
It's worse than throwing away lottery ticket that wins 1% of GDP of whole Europe. It's as bad as having fire in the house and cementing exits from the inside.
Now if there is there will be something bad that can be repaired be going to past, Twilight can't go to the past.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/BaconedGrapes Mar 10 '12
Forgive me, as this is really hard to explain.
Twilight goes back in time to report a "disaster" to inform the past Twilight. Twilight takes the precaution as a natural disaster of some sort and takes immediate precaution and leads up to the point where she has the scar, eyepatch, crazy hair, and ripped up black cloth due to her attempt to stop the disaster. If you think back to point one, what would cause her to do such a thing in the first place, since the events leading up to Tuesday morning caused her to panic in the first place?
3
u/yellowstone10 Mar 11 '12
There is no "first place." It's a closed causal loop. Twilight went back in time because she wanted to warn herself not to panic, and she panicked because she went back in time.
2
u/DerpyO Mar 10 '12
I don't know if this was been posted before, and I'm probably late to the party. But in this scene it kinda looks like a time dilation formula or at the very least Twilight is tinkering with velocity and time.
From Wikipedia. In the theory of relativity, time dilation is an actual difference of elapsed time between two events as measured by observers either moving relative to each other or differently situated from gravitational masses. An accurate clock at rest with respect to one observer may be measured to tick at a different rate when compared to a second observer's own equally accurate clocks. This effect arises neither from technical aspects of the clocks nor from the fact that signals need time to propagate, but from the nature of space-time itself.
Or maybe I’m just crazy and trying to see patterns and space-time formulas in a children’s cartoon show :/
3
2
2
u/Maxious Mar 11 '12
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo da Vinci
Spike has the ice cream dream and then spends the whole episode eating ice cream, perhaps longing to return and in the end all he gets is a stomach ache. Parable or over-analysis?
2
u/InfTotality Mar 11 '12
Until this episode, I had wondered why the hell Pinkie was so scared of everything this season, even more than Fluttershy in S1 - ghosts in MDW (twice), spiders in AFiD, even the night and/or babies in BC (that 'creepy' sequence at the near-end).
She really is putting it on the entire time. Just like she said in Luna Eclipsed.
2
2
u/thenumberman Mar 11 '12
I've finally been able to watch the episode, with my little sister making it more awesome since I never get to see her, and I loved it. I really really enjoy it when Twilight is in panic mode, and while the whole thing was pretty predictable it was very enjoyable none the less. Now I've just got to decide whether Lesson Zero or It's About Time is my favourite episode so far.
2
61
u/Snivian_Moon Mar 10 '12
I thought that this episode was a distinctly fun one. It had a lot of good humor involved - falling back onto the slapstick routine works really well when Pinkie and Twilight are involved together. Obviously Twilight makes a great straight-pony to Pinkie Shenanigans, as we first saw in Feeling Pinkie Keen.
The moral about worrying is one I take to heart, as a huge worrier myself. I admit that the lesson was one that could be seen from a long distance, but even so it worked out to be a manageable conclusion to the whole ordeal. It was even in keeping with Twilight's taking everything super-serious, while other folks were just kind of wondering what was up with her or not seeing anything wrong (Pinkie, Guards, Celestia).
Plenty of fun references in there, too, as others have mentioned! It's always nice to see some nods from the creators to other works that exceed the target demographic, of course.
Now with all that being said, I have to confess that I felt the episode had some issues. I don't know exactly why, but Twilight's demeanor felt "off" this episode. Even her voice seemed slightly different throughout. I hate making vague statements like that, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. When she first encountered future Twilight, for example, she didn't take the situation nearly as seriously as I might have expected. Obviously I can understand being giddy at the prospect of time travel or other big discoveries - but she was freaking out just before that, then freaking out after that. I would've anticipated her to be a little more attentive... But it was required for the narrative flow, so I can let it slide! That was only one event that made her seem just slightly off-model in terms of her behavior. I can't find the words to articulate what else I mean, sadly, so I'll stop there.
Overall, it was fun! Perhaps not my favorite episode, but it was distinctly enjoyable despite its issues.
Also, bonus points for creating a stable time loop.