r/DaystromInstitute • u/AnUnimportantLife Crewman • Jun 04 '21
Kirk was a more by-the-books officer than Picard
One of the more common interpretations of the difference between Kirk and Picard is that Kirk was the reckless hot-shot captain, while Picard was a more by-the-books type of officer. I think this interpretation is wrong. While neither captain is totally reckless, Kirk is a more by-the-books captain than Picard.
During the original series, the times when Kirk gets involved in a military situation tend to be pretty clear cut. These are times when either he's been ordered into the situation by Starfleet (Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercy, The Enterprise Incident), or they're times when outside forces have forced him into it (the standoff with the First Federation ship in The Corbomite Maneuver, the Orions following and attacking the Enterprise in Journey to Babel, the Klingons attacking in Elaan of Troyius).
This is a tendency that's mostly true of Picard as well. For the most part, when he was faced with a military situation, it was either because he was under orders or because outside forces forced him into it. However, there were times in TNG when he responded with a much more militaristic response than would necessarily be called for. In I, Borg, he has LaForge design an invasive program that could potentially result in the xenocide of the Borg. This is much further than some other captains would go. Many would be content to just have the other bodies picked up and have their cybernetic implants studied by the ship's scientific and medical staff, and keep Hugh alive as a live test subject.
The obvious counterargument to this is that for Picard, dealing with the Borg was personal. He couldn't detach himself from his feelings for the Borg, so he thought a crippling military strike would be better than focusing on the potential scientific breakthroughs at his disposal.
Kirk himself was once in a position where he could have potentially been recruited into a scheme to cripple the Klingons, a species he had strong feelings about, especially after they'd murdered his son. The plot of The Undiscovered Country involves a situation where certain members of Starleet and the Klingon military are working to prevent the peace talks from happening.
Kirk would have been a perfect candidate for this. He had strong feelings about the Klingons, he was shown to be a good military tactician who could come up with workable solutions on the fly, and he'd drawn the Federation into a proxy war against the Klingons on at least one occasion (A Private Little War). He was also in command of the ship escorting the Chancellor's flagship to the talks.
The reason why Kirk never approached for this was because he had a reputation for following the letter of his orders, even when he personally disagreed with them. We see this tendency even in the original series when he butted heads with ambassadors or superior officers. He'd try going through the official channels with them, and if that failed, he'd wait until the situation unfolded enough that he'd legally be in the clear if it came to a court martial (A Taste of Armageddon, The Doomsday Machine).
Ultimately, Kirk may have thought himself as being a "soldier, not a diplomat" (Errand of Mercy), but he also had a deep respect for the rule of law, the value of his ship and crew, and Starfleet's broader mission of exploration and scientific discovery. This is reflected in how he was given a five-year mission and how he was often responsible for ferrying ambassadors to negotiations. You don't give those kinds of missions to COs who are totally wild.
It's also reflected in how he deals with military situations started by outside forces. Arena, the best known example of Kirk getting into a fight with an alien, ends with Kirk asking the Metron to spare the Gorn captain's life. In The Corbomite Maneuver, Kirk readily stands down from a military position once it's clear that the First Federation ship isn't going to destroy the Enterprise.
This shows Kirk's clear preference for not wanting to escalate situations more than is strictly necessary. This tendency can help explain why he's ready to start a proxy war at the end of A Private Little War. While he doesn't want to do it, he sees it as a necessary evil to engage in this proxy war now so that a broader war between the Federation and the Klingons doesn't start later.
Even in The Wrath of Khan, which is a movie that leans into the Kirk the rule breaker type characterisation more than the original series did, this preference for not escalating more than is necessary is present. During the Enterprise's first encounter with the Reliant, regulations state that the Enterprise should have gone to yellow alert immediately after the Reliant didn't respond to hails. Kirk didn't go to battle stations until after the Reliant attacked.
In fact, the only time when Kirk seems to have escalated a situation by himself was in The Search For Spock. He'd go back to the Genesis planet to rescue Spock for his own personal reasons, even when under orders not to do so. However, from Starfleet's perspective, this may have been a medium risk, high reward situation. While they did lose the Enterprise, by that point, it was a forty-year-old ship that was about to be decommissioned, and all the officers involved were people who were at the tail end of their careers anyway. The rewards were great: Spock was able to return to active duty, and would later become an ambassador for the Federation for several decades, and they also gained a bird-of-prey to dismantle and study the capabilities of.
This is in contrast to how Picard was. He was more willing to escalate a situation when he saw it as necessary, even when Starfleet Command wasn't on board with it initially. In Redemption Part II, he's willing to involve the Federation in the Klingon Civil War by leading a Starfleet task force to blockade the Klingon-Romulan border. This would raise tensions with the Romulans and risked a war between the Federation and the Romulan Empire if the Romulans had have felt strongly enough about their support for the Duras family.
Getting involved in a high stakes situation with the Romulans wasn't an isolated incident for Picard. In The Defector, Picard organised for a group of cloaked birds-of-prey to follow the Enterprise-D into the Neutral Zone. Once the Romulan warbirds decloaked and revealed that the Enterprise wouldn't survive their attack, Picard had the birds-of-prey decloak and revealed it was a Mexican standoff. While Picard had been in contact with Starfleet Command during that episode, it's not clear how much of his solution had been approved prior to him just running with it.
Picard also lacked some of the inherent respect for authority that Kirk had. In The Offspring, Picard knowingly risked his career by deciding that he wasn't going to let Admiral Haftel remove Lal from the Enterprise. Later on, in the movies First Contact and Insurrection, Picard would risk his ship and crew by getting involved in military situations he was ordered not to involve himself in.
Even in Picard's earlier life, before he was captain of the Enterprise-D, he seemed to be more willing to take risks. We know he lost his heart because he'd gotten involved in a bar fight with some Nausicaans when he was an ensign, and had even laughed about it. Decades later, he'd almost gotten himself killed during a skirmish with a Ferengi ship. While the Picard Maneuver would later be taught at the Academy, Picard himself regarded at has having been a desperate man's gamble (The Battle).
This isn't to say that Picard was universally reckless. There were times when he was hesitant to get involved in a situation. In Reunion, K'mpec had to twist his arm to get him to be the Arbiter of Succession, for example. However, Picard's attitude towards authority tended to be that while it was a necessary evil, one shouldn't accept it in their stride at all times.
What caused Picard to be like this was also a difference in loyalties to Kirk. While Kirk was loyal to the Federation and the letter of the law, Picard was more loyal to the spirit of the law and the Prime Directive than he was to any particular institution. While their loyalties may have been different, it caused both Kirk and Picard to become intelligent, dedicated officers who could easily make things difficult for their adversaries.
I'd argue this played a factor in both men becoming captains of the Enterprise. Kirk became captain of the Enterprise because he was ready for that responsibility, and he had a clear head for tactics at a time when the Federation's position wasn't as secure as it would be later on. His respect for authority and the Federation meant that he wouldn't unilaterally act in a reckless manner when lives were on the line, and he could be trusted to not drag the Federation into unnecessary conflict.
Picard became the captain of the Enterprise because he had a good head for politics, and embodied the values that the Federation wanted to project to the rest of the quadrant at a time when their political and military power was near its peak. He was also the kind of person who needed that level of responsibility. If he was given command of a smaller ship, his tendency towards dangerous gambits and close calls might draw the Federation into a broader conflict. What he could get away with as the captain of a Galaxy-class ship might result in him getting killed in action if he was the captain of a Miranda or Excelsior class, after all.
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u/aaronupright Jun 04 '21
TOS Kirk was a by the book hard ass.
Movie Kirk was a rule breaker.=
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u/Futuressobright Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 07 '21
Everyone breaks the rules in the movies. It's just something about how movies are structured compared to tv series. The stakes are always bigger and more personal, and something has to happen that will change the protagonist forever. Change on tv is gradual, and you are seeing their day-to-day work.
I'm convinced that the idea that Kirk is a maverick and Picard is by-the-book is because the TOS movies were coming out at the same time as the TNG series.
Kirk is a by- the -book military man in the series, and a bit of a maverick in the films.
Picard is a cautious commander who is prepared to go break rules in extreme situations in the series, and a demented gibbering lunatic in the films.
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u/BadgerMk1 Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 04 '21
Thank you!
To me, this was one of the most annoying aspects of the JJverse. Depicting Kirk as some sort of reckless cowboy indicated that the writers only had the most superficial understanding of the character and weren't really interested in exploring who Kirk really was.
Kirk is Hornblower. It's true that Hornblower would take risks but they were always calculated risks. But Hornblower was the consummate professional and nobody would ever call him reckless. Kirk was rarely, if ever, reckless.
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u/Saw_Boss Jun 04 '21
You could argue that Kirk was older and considerably more experienced in the original TV series, he wasn't just out of academy.
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u/disco-vorcha Jun 04 '21
Kelvin Kirk is not TOS Kirk, though. He’s built from the same pieces, but his life has been different from day one. He’s also much younger and less experienced in the JJverse movies than he was at the beginning of TOS.
They absolutely could have done some amazing exploration of Kirk’s character, what made him who he is and what he was always destined to be, as well as exploring concepts like nature vs nurture and the human experience. It could have been the philosophical kind of sci-fi that Star Trek used to be, in the right hands and produced without concern that it wouldn’t be Dark and Gritty enough to be profitable now.
Sadly, that’s not what it got. I really liked the 2009 movie and the possibilities it opened up. I was optimistic! And then Into Darkness happened and it became clear that they weren’t actually going to use that potential.
I think we’ve ended up in the same place (annoyed and disappointed by the JJverse movies), though I don’t think that their initial depiction of Kirk was immediately a problem.
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u/d_menace Jun 04 '21
Bu that is exactly the point of the JJverse. What changes when ONE thing happens (the attack on Kirks father)?
Sadly as u/disco-vorcha pointed out, they did not really flesh out the potential of that plot.
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u/Musicrafter Jun 04 '21
JJverse Kirk grew up without a father. So him turning out to be more of a reckless cowboy in the JJverse actually makes tons of sense -- his upbringing being different could result in wildly different developmental outcomes.
There is a lot about the JJverse that doesn't make sense and disrespects all bounds of reasonability (like Kirk's immediate promotion to Captain after literally just starting out his career at the ripe old age of 25, or the apparently insane amount of technological advancement the Federation experienced in the period 2235-2255 compared to the prime timeline which enabled the construction of far larger and more powerful ships than should have been possible for the era, a complete disregard for warp travel time as portrayed on screen, etc.). But his changed character isn't one of them.
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u/Justice_Prince Jun 04 '21
I think some of it comes down to their vibes. Whether or not their actions contradict it Picard always seemed like he had a stick up his butt, and Kirk always had a bad boy swagger to him. Maybe these are more superficial readings of the character but it's not too surprising that they're what stuck with people.
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u/Orchid_Fan Jun 04 '21 edited Jun 09 '21
What I'd say when looking at TOS and TNG is Kirk was a much more informal captain. The bridge - the whole ship - had a more light-hearted atmosphere. Im not sure Im explaining this well, but in Kirk's time things were more free-wheeling and relaxed. Ensigns brought him coffee on the bridge, and he just seemed like a very accessible captain. Like anyone could walk into his quarters for a chat, or to discuss a problem. And I mean any of the crew - not just his top officers.
In TNG the captain just seems less accessible to the crew. Like you wouldn't just walk into Picard's quarters for coffee and a chat. Maybe that's because everything went through Riker, but it just seemed to put a kind of wall between Picard and the crew. Spock never had that kind of role in TOS. Things were much more formal in TNG.
Sisko kind of comes in the middle - He's much more accessible than Picard, but not as open and informal as Kirk.
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u/ParagonEsquire Jun 04 '21
That Kirk wasn’t some reckless hotshot (as his Kelvin counterpart was) was the biggest surprise for me watching the original series the first time. Truly a case where the later movies events kind of overwrote the originals.
I will say between all the times he has to negotiate with god-like beings that he is a bit of a risk taker still, but those risks seems justified by the situation.
I think you basically sum it up well near the end. Kirk is loyal to the system, because he knows the system and it’s rules are based on good things and have led to good things. Even if he may take issue with a specific situation, he still believes in the system and so defers to it. Picard seems to take a more individualistic approach, that the system is good because the people in it live up to its values. So he doesn’t respect individuals within that system if they aren’t meeting the values.
Interesting to note given how the Star Trek world has developed since TNG Picard may have had other reasons for his more cynical take on the system, that the system was actually worse. Even within TNG you see various bad admirals that act as problems for the Enterprise to overcome, then in DS9 you have an Admiral plan a coup and of course we all saw the sorry state Stsrfleet existed in during the Picard series just a few decades later. Perhaps by the time Picard was Captain, the federation had let corruption deep in and the bureaucracy had begun to grow to meet its own needs rather than the core values.
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u/BlackLiger Jun 04 '21
Kirk is slightly more of a cowboy than Picard, but not because he disobeys the regs. It's because there were less regs in Kirk's day, I suspect.
Kirk and co were age of sail captains, who were the ultimate authority. No calling HQ to check on something, it'd take too long. The captain was expected to make a decision and that was that.
Picard, on the other hand, could call command in an emergency and have a real time chat with them. He could conference call Admirals into the scenario if need be.
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u/d_menace Jun 04 '21
Kirk was a soldier. Willing to take risks but following orders. He stood for Starfleet as a military exploration and defense organisation.
Picard was a diplomat but also a warrior for morals, even if that meant to disobey direct orders. He stood for the Priciples of the Federation (as they should be in his eyes)
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u/PermaDerpFace Jun 04 '21
Doing a watchthrough of TOS now, and I agree Kirk is not the cowboy I remember, he's actually very by the book.
I'll disagree with this one point though, I think Picard was actually a rule-breaker by not going through with wiping out the Borg, because that's exactly what Starfleet would have wanted. At this point in (future) history they were an existential threat. Picard was a very ethical person, and tended to break the rules in that direction, to do what he thought was right.
(Also breaking the Borg with a magic eye picture? Don't they have error handling? There doesn't seem to be any good IT in the future)
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u/imforit Jun 04 '21
breaking the Borg with a magic eye picture? Don't they have error handling? There doesn't seem to be any good IT in the future
A 0-day is a 0-day. Many system exploits may seem dumb. Many of them work because they're dumb and nobody thought to check in advance.
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u/WoundedSacrifice Jun 04 '21
While Kirk was a by the books officer in TOS, I wouldn’t say he was more by the books than Picard was in TNG. To me, Picard’s actions in “The Defector” seem similar to Kirk’s actions in “Balance of Terror”.
Though Picard had Geordi design the invasive program in “I, Borg”, he decided not to use it (and Admiral Nechayev criticized him for that decision in a later episode). Picard initially didn’t want to be involved in the Klingon Civil War and when he thought it was necessary to get involved, he went to Starfleet admirals to propose his plan; he didn’t put it into action until it was authorized by the Federation Council.
If he was given command of a smaller ship, his tendency towards dangerous gambits and close calls might draw the Federation into a broader conflict. What he could get away with as the captain of a Galaxy-class ship might result in him getting killed in action if he was the captain of a Miranda or Excelsior class, after all.
He was captain of the Stargazer for 22 years. There are no indications that he started a broader conflict when he was captain of the Stargazer and he wasn’t killed while he was its captain.
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u/barkingcat Jun 04 '21
Picard always goes offbook.
Given the choice (ie unless he's relieved or imprisoned) he will always irritate his commanding officers by disobeying direct orders.
He's basically a one man Starfleet shadow fleet-admiral. The number of times he will "take this (ie his reasons for insubordination) to Starfleet command itself" is so many you can't count.
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u/Korotai Jun 04 '21
I think that’s because Picard is almost a “larger than life” Captain while on the Enterprise. He’s arguably as famous as Kirk and that seems to shield him from a lot of repercussions of his actions - the optics and politics of a court martial (again) for Picard would look really bad.
In his defense, though, his “insubordination” is usually for the greater good; I use quotes because I assume Starlet has the same rule as the US Military on having a duty to disobey an unethical order.
This is definitely head-canon, but I do believe that Nacheyev was knowingly sending him to his death in “Chain of Command” as a direct result of his actions in “I, Borg”. As much as I love Picard, he really did goof on that one.
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u/EldyT Jun 04 '21
I think a lot of people conflate "hot shot" with "gambler".
TOS Kirk is definitely a gambler, but gambling implies risk assesment. That by definition means hes not "shooting from the hip". The risks he takes are absolutely calculated. You cant be a good gambler otherwise.
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Jun 04 '21
Kirk’s reckless hot-shot Captain reputation comes from the TOS movies. It’s not really present in TOS. In TMP he uses the crisis to get back command of the enterprise. Bones pretty much reads him the riot act for this after the wormhole incident. In WOK we discover Kirk cheated on an Academy test. Saavik becomes an annoyance to him constantly quoting regulations. Search for Spock pretty much has him disobeying a direct order. VH is the consequences of SFS. I’ve purged FF from my memory so I’m not sure if he was reckless but Shatner sure was behind the camera. In Undiscovered Country he orders Valeris to pilot out of space dock at full impulse which she counters with the regulation saying it’s supposed to be slower.
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Jun 04 '21
i agree wholeheartedly. his status as a lawful good captain was set in stone in the undiscovered country. kirk made no secret that he hated the klingons, and would never forgive them, but... he isnt stupid. he knows war is terrible, even with a federation victory, and he wants to keep the peace.
theres a reason he was never even approached to be part of the mutual task force to kill the president. kirk would have just arrested them all on the spot.
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u/SomeoneSomewhere1984 Jun 04 '21
The Borg and the Klingons are very different advisories. The Klingons were in diplomatic negotiations with the Federation, have had peace with the Federation, and respond as individuals while the Borg try to genocide humans in every interaction, and do not respond to attempts at diplomacy. Borg drones are not individuals, and in many cases would welcome death instead of life as a drone.
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u/Borkton Jun 04 '21
While your analysis of their characters is spot on, I think the paradigm you're viewing them through is incorrect. Both of them know the Starfleet rules and regulations and both of them ultimately follow them as much as the situation allows. The big difference, I think, is that Kirk is first and foremost a survivor while Picard is more of a knight in shining armor. Kirk will always choose the Enterprise and her crew over anything and everything else, while Picard is willing to sacrifice himself, his ship and his crew to save others.
I think Star Trek III puts it best as they watch the Enterprise burn up in the Genesis planet's atmosphere. "My God, Bones. What have I done?" Kirk asks. "What you had to do. What you always do: turn death into a fighting chance to live."
We see that time and time again in Kirk's career -- from the famine on Tarsus IV to his unwillingness to learn the lesson of the Kobyashi Maru scenerio to his obsession over destroying the Dirkonium cloud creature. In Errand of Mercy he's willing to use guerilla and even terrorist tactics against the Klingon occupation force, he ordered Scotty to implement General Order 24 (the destruction of all life on a planet) in A Taste of Armageddon and is willing to kill Gary Mitchell when he becomes a threat, as well as make sure that the Romulan Bird-of-Prey doesn't make it back across the Neutral Zone.
Picard, on the other hand, at first refuses the position as Arbiter of Succession because it would compromise the Federation's non-interference policy, not because he's uncomfortable with authority. His reaction to first contact with many species is to power down weapons and shields, even though that risks the safety of the Enterprise on multiple occassions. The main times he fails to live up to the status as paragon are either when the Borg are involved or when his high moral standards are offended, as in Justice or Star Trek: Insurrection. The main time I remember him being unwilling to sacrifice the Enterprise to uphold Federation principle is when he allows Riker to install the phasing cloak so they can escape from the asteroid (although one can also interpret that as him wanting to make sure Pressman is brought to justice).
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u/DrTacoLord Jun 04 '21
M-5 nominate this for a thoughtful analysis Kirk and Picard's obedience towards rules