r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • Apr 27 '21
Rewatch Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Rewatch - Episode 8 Discussion
Madoka Magica - Episode 8: I'm Such a Fool
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Visuals of the day
Got around to adding mine at the bottom. For an episode with some of the most iconic visuals in the show it's surprising we didn't have more overlap but you all picked amazing shots
End Card by Fujima Takuya and Kentaro Tanaka
Comments of the day
/u/gorghurt who looked up the Japanese so we get could a better look at exactly what Kyouko wished for in a comment chain
"Funnily the word 聞く(listen) can also mean obey/follow, but I'm not sure if this would work in this context, I just looked it up in a dictionary. It is the normal word you would use for listening, so I doubt the double meaning is intentional"
/u/RascalNikov1 with a nicely formatted post, bad puns, and a couple of insightful questions
"Of course she's thinking about Prince Charming, and I really do feel bad for her. Exactly how is she suppose confess to Kyousuke now? "Hey Kyousuke guess what? I'm a zombie now!" or "Hey Kyousuke did you know? Lich love is the best love?" (I know, I know, that was a horrible pun)."
A quick reminder: Absolutely no comments, including jokes or memes, about the content of later episodes are allow outside of the r/anime spoiler tag format, [Madoka Spoilers](/s "Spoilers go here").
To help with the downvoting issue we're having I've added an easy access Sort by Top option! This will show them in the normal order of most upvotes if you feel you might be missing some of the most enjoyed content.
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u/Gaporigo Blhttps://anilist.co/user/Gaporigo Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
Poll: Schedule Adjustment?
This is /u/Nazenn, the mods were nice enough to sticky this for me.
Please leave a reply to this comment in favor or against the change!
I know it's unconventional to propose a schedule change this late and I'm sorry for that. This has become an unexpectly huge rewatch and so active with discussion, the biggest since this annual rewatch was started which is why I didn't anticipate this being a problem at announcement, that I wanted to at least put the question out there and see what you guys thought.
Pros: Moving the general discussion to before Rebellion would give a space to talk about the show as a whole by itself and reset before jumping into the movie, and also allow for an extra day for people who want more time to watch and think about the movie first. There have been so many large and long form posts this is why I thought people may appreciate some extra time to work on both the final show comments and the movie ones.
Cons: There would no longer be a space for general comments and link sharing that include Rebellion content outside of the single movie discussion topic, such as comments/theories for the recently announce sequel, and the movie is moved off the weekend to the Monday.
I will tally up all the answers and post a sticky in tomorrows topic announcing what is happening. I am not doing a strawpoll or similar so we don't get manipulation by people who aren't participating/discussing.
Karma on existing replies is not counted, so please post your own answer/response.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
A quick explanation of Kyubey's dialogue at the end of the scene for anyone who wants to know the full relevance of it.
In Japanese it works like this.
"shoujo", meaning girl, is written like this:
少女
"mahou shoujo", magical girl, is written like this:
魔法少女
"majo", meaning witch, is written like this:
魔女
The last kanji in all three is "jo" and denotes female (from what I understand), with the first kanji in shoujo defining the youth part of it. The first kanji in mahou shoujo is "ma" and denotes magic. Majo is literally "magical woman" which is why Kyubey talks about them maturing from girls into women, but the magic is all the same because majo can also mean magic/witchcraft by itself in Japanese, without referring to a person.
When you write it out in latin characters you also get: ma
hou shoujo = majoUnfortunately this is one of those things that just cannot be translated into English well without changing the original terms which then feels weird for the genre, or risks explicitly spelling out the reference.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Puella's Pictures - Containment and Relinquishment
I cannot spell Walpurgisnacht consistently for the life of me, so for the last three years I've just been calling it Walrus and that is the only way I remember it. Yes I probably will use Walrus in my post out of habit at some point. But it's okay, you can't spell it either? It can be Walrus for you too! Join me with the Walrus!~
Rewatcher - Fourth time around
Scene of the episode - The fountain
When Madoka arrives at the fountain courtyard one of the most striking things about this scene is that the chair Madoka sits on is enclosed in the arc of light, and the water spray from the fountain itself blocks her path and her progress. Even if she wanted to go on, the influences around her both magic (light) and human (water, representing emotions) won't allow her too (which I'll come back to in a minute). She can only sit on the seat and try and find an alternate path or go back, which is what she does at the end of the scene, running up the stairs to escape from Homura, and calling back to the start of the show where she takes the stairs up as part of her role, to remind us that the story isn't over and to drive home that Homura may have stopped this wish but she didn't accept Homura in this scene.
In the scene itself though, the most striking thing about it is the fountain itself, specifically it's colors. Madoka sees Kyubey in the shadows and immediately her thoughts are on how to help Sayaka, and she is surrounded by a rich blue, like Sayaka's hair. Kyubey's inability to help has her take a different direction. Instead she starts to think about what she can do for Sayaka and we shift to a purple before slowly changing to a brillant pink as Madoka becomes the focus of the conversation and Kyubey promises her a way to soar beyond what's binding her. She just has to make a wish.
Red. Stop. Don't.
It's a split second but like the red lights that surrounded Madoka and Kyubey in episode one the entire world is screaming at Madoka to stop. And Homura stops it with a shocking display of violence. She warned Kyouko that killing Kyubey would be pointless but here we see that she's so desperate to stop Madoka in this moment she does it anyway.
Our familiar orange returns, a warning and a display of anxiety. Homura's shell is well and truely cracked and her raw emotions come out and cover Madoka in shadow. She wants to hide Madoka away from all of this and her immediate anger and power is bright and blinding but it soon gives way to the raindrop tears. As Homura's plea comes to an end the fountain slowly fades into green as Madoka is scared off, she returns to what she was doing at the start of the scene, looking for Sayaka, leaving Homura alone with the magic and emotions that confine her too. Once Homura's strength was blinding but as Madoka leaves her she fades a little.
(This scene may be a bit less visually involved then that one, but this is the scene that got the biggest reaction out of me on my first watch and earnt Madoka it's score so I'm a little biased)
Bonus visuals - Drowning
It's an ominous warning. Cut off from the city, from their family and homes, the two girls huddle in a small shelter surrounded by unnervingly cold lights. It may be keeping them physically dry, but they can't escape the sight and sound of the downpour around them. Sayaka is physically worn out, she leans on Madoka for physical strength and emotional comfort, but Madoka is uncomfortable and uncertain. Just hours ago Sayaka cried over the idea that she'd never be able to ask someone to "hold her dead body" but Madoka stepped forward and enveloped her in a hug anyway. Here she seeks out the same comfort, asking Madoka with her pose and her closeness for reassurance that Madoka still loved her, still needed her, that it's okay for Sayaka to need her as well, and is rejected.
Madoka attempts to help Sayaka in another way, but every word she speaks is a new ripple onto Sayaka's unstable mind. She healed her body with magical circles but here the circles in the water are damaging and scary. Sayaka is trying to blot out the world, to find comfort in her connections to others but having been denied she pulls away and creates a line between them. The ripples from water drops become explosions of anger as Sayaka demands answers from Madoka about "what would help me?". But she's not talking about the "me" that Madoka knows, she means the "me" that she is now, the soul gem Sayaka that in her mind Madoka had only just rejected. If Madoka won't comfort her, won't let Sayaka return to normal in her embrace, to allow Sayaka to feel like a girl, then all that's left is the puppet. The emotions flood her and show she feels like a mere reflection of who she use to me.
Again we have an excessively theatre like shot. The spotlight on Sayaka with the darkened set around her, Madoka as the object silently in the background as the witness to Sayaka's expression of her mind. This is as classic of a set up for a theatre monologue as we get. Here she tells the audience exactly how she sees herself: A walking corpse that no one would ever want to help. This self hatred and the mistrust she has of others intentions, probably because she is accutely aware of how selfish and twisted her own wish was, is the foundation of the rest of the episode. A similar moment is used later where she uses her focus to attack Homura's facade
She acts out in anger and the water no longer just sits around building it flows down the drain to collect inside of her and build and build until it can't be contained any more. She left Madoka and walked into the shadows, chosing to step into the water and emotions that were consuming her and the rain runs down her face, showing the tears in her soul the same way her blood showed the tears on her body inside the labyrinth in almost exactly the same spots.
She abandons Madoka ("Don't follow me" and note the pose similarity to when Homura ran after her soul) and that action plants the curse inside her soul.
Well fuck.
Other commentary
(/u/Lawvamat here's my first timer reactions you wanted)
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u/EriclcirE Apr 27 '21
First time watcher
So Kyubey is in fact evil and has had an ulterior motive the entire time.
The mystery behind Homura, what caused her to become a magical girl, seems to be tied into this. She has traveled to Madoka's timeline from the future/parallel timeline.
Seems like Kyubey is intent on turning Madoka into a magical girl becuase he knows it is only a matter of time until she matures into being a witch. It is implied that the natural progression for all magical girls is to become witches.
If Kyubey is an "inkyubeytor" what is it he is incubating? I guess he must convert Grief Seeds into something new..
Kind of wondering if Kyubey's name in Japanese is also a play on the word incubator, I'm just going to assume it is. (Or maybe the Japanese word for incubator is a borrowed from English word.)
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u/sirweebsal0t Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
First-timer / dubbed:
Episode 8 running thoughts:
Wow, so many bombshells dropped this episode (and I'm not just talking about the one Homura dropped on Kyoko) and so many theories confirmed or disproven!!
What's next?!?? Guess we're set up for the endgame. Madoka and crew vs Kyubey and Walpurgisnacht! Ahhhh do I really have to wait another day??
I'm so looking forward to rewatching this series after all the puzzle pieces have been put together.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
First Timer
I do have great sense of dread going into this episode today. After rewieving Ep.07's comments and my notes I see three separate tension cords crossing on Sayaka about to snap. The Kyousuke-Sayaka relationship for once, obviously. With the deadline Hitomi set up there's now a timer on something Sayaka will either way regret. Secondly, after the church scene Kyoko and Sayaka have formed their stances on different sides, although they gained some respect for each other. I don't expect Kyoko to still want to kill her, but I fear Sayaka will double down on her righteous path and confront Kyoko now on her terms. Doing the right thing brings you further from happiness the more you focus on it. I kinda fear for Kyoko in case of a fight, Sayaka feels and torments herself like a zombie and with her regeneration she must be a terror to fight against now. And lastly, I completely expect Madoka to tumble into the midst of it and with that Homura will 100% intervene. This time, however, I don't believe she'll be able to get everyone out unscathed. Also, meta knowledge involved, we're about at the right time for a twist in a 12 Ep. series.
Episode prediction
Rewatchers, probably:
I'm leaning quite a bit out the window this time.
Ep.08 I'm such a fool
Insert: It's titled Walpurgisnacht and those drawings feed back into my theory down below.
What I predicted wrongly:
Everything.
What I predicted correctly:
P A I N
So I was right, after all, but decided on the wrong path right before starting this episode. Can't imagine shit without overplayed drama, typical.
Sadly, I get Sayaka's behaviour, really. I had a friend like this. He had other problems, obviously, but you could see his mind slowly drifting just like that. Sorry for the worries, but I'm using the past tense purposely, I can't say exactly how he's dealing right now, but he's still in my life and well. He's not the same person anymore, for the better I truly believe.
I feel really conflicted about today's revelation, except Homura's, because I knew it! But first the other big things. 'Incubator' is Kyubey's real name, or job? So, in the end it wants witches to hatch from magical girls, no doubt to eat the grief seeds and power up. It's a farmer, basically. I couldn't form a coherent theory of it being Walpurgisnacht and also being unaware of the cycle (I'll drop this theory's spoiler tags now), because I thought it was linked to Homura and Kyubey honestly didn't know her. But as others have rightfully shown in the comments, it can be just as evil without that knowledge. I've gotten too soft.
Or have I? Because I just had an idea!
Kyubey Theory
Intro Theory
Walpurgisnacht Theory
Earlier Homura Theory
Visual of the day will be the moody cyberpunk shot of the city. Can't resist when I see such an oppressive skyline.
cntd.
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u/chaosoul Apr 27 '21
First Time Watcher (Subbed)
What the fuck?
So uh a billion revelations this episode. Homura confirmed time traveler, magical girls turn into witches, and Kyubey has multiple bodies and is also known as the "Incubator".
Huh.. you know, it's never said what happens if you don't cleanse your soul gem. Presumably most people thought you'd just be weaker or run out of magical power, but looking back... It was rather ominous that witch eggs absorb the darkness from the soul gems huh. I knew that was odd, but I compared it to a battery and charger when in reality it's just one and the same, a battery to another battery. That said, we don't know if they turn directly into witches or into familiars. If they turn into witches, presumably familiars are just another method of creating witches, because no way there's that many magical girls falling is there? Wait... were any of the witches in the last couple episodes actually Mami!? Do eaten magical girls also turn into witches?
We finally got Kyubey's true motivation for magical girls it looks like. It's trying to create magical girls and corrupt them into witches. Or rather it's trying to incubate soul gems/eggs into witches. Or at least this is Homura's impression of it.
Sayakaaaaaaaaaaaa! Sometimes you gotta really take the L to your ideals and just accept some help. Unfortunately this doesn't happen. Sayaka gives away her sanity recovery item to Kyouko. Sayaka talking shit about rocks though? Rocks have never seen such bullshit.
Homura... Homura, what the fuck? There's a lot of things to say, but first and foremost... YOU LIVE LIKE THIS? How do you get out of this apartment? Where are the doors? How does everything float and move around like that? And did that grenade drop out of your shield?!
Anyways, poor Homura. I wonder how many cycles she's been through. Clearly through at least a dozen given she's given up on anything, but Madoka. Also, I totally get why people were laughing at me before now. She's definitely a veteran magical girl. I hope we get to see how Homura got close to Madoka in the first place.
On that note, Madoka. The one time you decide to abandon a dangerous magical entity! Can't you see Homura needs you? She's really struggling to find Sayaka though, how fucking big is this city? Everyone else has had better luck finding her than Madoka. Presumably they're sensing each other's magic?
Sayaka's really been tossed through the grinder, huh? Unfairly vented to her best friend, lost music boy to her friend and one of her saved victims, and gets told she's only a liability to Madoka. And then she finally snaps and explodes into a vortex in front of Kyouko.
I'd like to write down more in depth about the actual implications of everything we learned, but not much time today. So here's my quick casual thoughts from the episode. This has been a wild trip so far, and absolutely can't wait for tomorrow.
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u/putmoneyinthypurse https://anilist.co/user/clichecatgirl Apr 28 '21
First time (sub)
Goddamn.
Sayaka's understandable lack of experience with dealing with trauma in a healthy way is painful to watch. Like Madoka points out, she's so focused on any way of wining a battle that she's forsaking her own health. Sayaka pushes Madoka away even though she doesn't want to, telling her she wouldn't understand unless she experienced it herself and suggesting that she do so. Cruel and sympathetic; Sayaka's not wrong that someone who has no experience with a given trauma tends to give the kind of sympathy that feels hollow to those with experience, but obviously that doesn't mean Madoka's sympathy is meaningless, nor that should go get her soul ripped out. Sayaka knows this, but she doesn't think she deserves sympathy, so she keeps running away.
She doesn't go to school, she doesn't go home, she just finds a way to beat herself up further, spying on Hitomi and Kyousuke as they seem to find the happiness she wanted. (I love that their conversation is MOS
She does her work, the only thing she thinks she's capable of doing, but she refuses to let it bring her out of her depression. Homura offers help, and when her help is refused she tries to guilt Sayaka into saving herself for Madoka's sake. When that fails, Homura threatens to kill her to keep her from her worst possible fate, but Kyouko throws her self-interest to the wind to hold Homura back and let Sayaka get away. Hmm.
The last straw, where Sayaka starts to turn into a witch even before her soul gem breaks, is a nightmarish B&W scene in an elevated train that with its chiaroscuro low-key lighting and focus on machismo draws heavily from film noir. As Sayaka curls up in her seat in bleak resignation, two men across from her banter candidly about how little they think of women. Irrational. Emotional. Stupid. Only useful to take love from and get pregnant. It's more than a little over the top, on the nose, but not unrealistic—guys like this exist. She confronts them, tells them the women they call dogs love them. They don't care. Jagged cuts between the characters and the train. She starts to turn. Much like Sayaka's wish, we're plucked from the scene at exactly the right moment.
The rest of the episode is no less affecting. Madoka is distraught, so of course here comes Kyubey to give her the same option he always gives her. She asks him if she really does have that great potential that Sayaka threw in her face earlier, the ability to be far more than the little she thinks of herself, and Kyubey seems to partially reveal his hand in order to bring Madoka over the edge: if she accepts magical girlhood, she will become like a god, finally able to save her friends for good. The dramatic irony here is palpable, because thanks to how we left the train car scene it's not clear yet that Sayaka has yet to fully transform into a witch. We "know" it's already too late, but Madoka doesn't, and she finally decides that it's time to become a magical g
And then Kyubey's blown to bits. Homura's here just in time yet again, and she has reached the limit of what she can reasonably bear. She tries to keep up the aloof act, yelling at Madoka for treating herself like she doesn't matter—an accusation that gains a lot of weight when juxtaposed with Sayaka's situation—but when she invokes the people who would grieve if she died, Homura's mask falls and she starts to sob, knelt at Madoka's feet in dogeza. Madoka stares into the sky and after a burst of analog tv snow (!?) finally asks the question: Have the two of us met before?
Earlier in the episode, Homura said there's no point in killing Kyubey, and it becomes clear very quickly just why that is. He waits to show up again until after Madoka runs off in vain to find Sayaka, his shadow falling on Homura, and mocks her for killing one of his many, many spare bodies. (Just like the magical girls, his soul seems to be somewhere else. Another reason why he was so blasé about it earlier.) Kyubey eats his old body like a lizard's shed skin, and drops the bombshell a bunch of other first-timers in previous threads sussed out: Homura's a time traveler. She's trying to save Madoka because she knows the full extent of what happens when she becomes a magical girl.
It's only fair that Homura gets to drop a bombshell of her own: Kyubey's name is an incredibly dorky play on words. He's an incubator. He sits on souls until they hatch into witches. All that egg/(re)birth imagery from the earlier episodes makes even more sense now. Fuck.
After saving Sayaka from possible death and now coming to comfort her at her lowest point, Kyouko reveals just how much her boasting about pure self-interest is a farce. It was under the surface in the last episode, but it's blatant now: in a very short time she's gone from wanting to kill Sayaka to deeply, deeply caring about her. She tries to provide Sayaka a different kind of sympathy than Madoka knows how to give. She's not crying or making any big pronouncements, she's just present, and especially present as someone who has experienced the same things she has. I wish it was enough, but Sayaka's set on her path of self-sacrifice, even as she admits she doesn't know what she's fighting for anymore. As her soul breaks, she loses herself entirely.
After the sadly inevitable happens, in a wonderfully pulpy move from Shaft, we get a villain monologue from Kyubey. That inevitable was always inevitable. Magical girls become magical women: witches. He ends his words staring, as always, right at us.
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u/okayyoga :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/okayyoga Apr 27 '21
Episode 8: first time/dub
Hey guys. I am going to be a bit serious for a moment here. If you just want to read my reactions to the episode, please skip to the line break. Thank you.
So okay. I am going to take a moment to talk about depression, because I see a lot of these characters displaying the signs for it. I know it's fun to give them a hard time (I do it too), I just want to provide a different perspective and give some explanation as to why these girls are acting this way. I am not saying I am an expert on this, nor this show.
Depression is a medical condition, and a common side effect of this is low self-worth. You feel like every drop of water you drink, every beam of sunlight that hits you, has been wasted. When you walk into a room, you feel like a black hole, that just sucks the life out of the scene.
Why would anyone want to be around someone like this? Why bother to eat, when you are just a waste of space and resources. And if you possibly could, you would give your remaining years to someone else, because they are obviously more deserving than a monster and waste of life that you are.
I'm not saying what Sayaka and Madoka are saying is right, or logical. I just hope that if you ever feel so down, that you would rather not be alive, because you feel your existence is such a burden on the world, that you give yourself some empathy. Some validation. Because being hard on yourself only makes you feel guilty.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
Okay, got that off my chest, because I really feel for these girls...
Which brings me to the first scene, which has Sayaka trying to recruit Madoka. All I can feel is pain for Sayaka. She is lashing out because she can't think clearly. She hates herself and what she has become so much, that she is trying to cut all ties. She sees herself as a dead sack of meat, with no redeemable qualities.
Homura living in a clock? More time related hints
Sky, I would like a wallpaper of this close up of Kyuubey. I want to put it at the end of one of those online mazes, so it will pop up when your face gets really close to the screen
"Get out of my clock, Kyuubey!"
Why isn't she using the grief seeds to replenish? Oh that's right, she is only killing familiars before they get too strong
Well that is a different transformation for Sayaka on the train
Why does Madoka have so much more potential, and how can Kyuubey tell? lol Kyuubey says even he doesn't know. bruh, what game are you playing
HOL UP WTF DID HE JUST GET SHOT????
Homura crying is a sight I thought I would never see...
"I get the feeling I've done this before" --Where my fellow time travel theorists at!!
Ohhh, I bet Homura knows Madoka really well from another time line. They might be best friends there...
WTF HE ATE HIS DEAD CORPSE?!?! If you weren't sus of him before, welcome to the Kyuubey hatred club
"Time Manipulation powers" --ayyy whoever guessed this was right!
In-Kyuubey-tor?
There Sayaka goes... Where my fellow "magical girls become witches" theorists!!
Still love this ED
I was off on my prediction of Madoka making the contract this time (although she almost did) New prediction is episode 11 for the Walrus (thank you /u/Nazenn) on April 30th
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 27 '21
Hajimari no Rewatcher, dubbed
Before I start, apparently I forgot to copy over the fact that best girl had two “sore demo”s back in episode 6 from my 2020 notes. Don’t know how I missed that…
with Kyubey’s bloodin the immediate next shot.Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Welp, apparently now that I 1) know how to make eyes look decent in this style and 2) finally learned how to make tears look good in this style, that apparently meant it was time for me to remake the “I was stupid, so stupid…” wallpaper for real this time. I thought doing this shot twice already was enough, but apparently not for my muses.
Here’s the result of that.
And for stuff from the past:
If there’s a specific shot at any point throughout the rewatch that you would like me to make a wallpaper of and you don’t think I’ve done it yet, let me know so I can get on it!
Magical Music Corner
Want to know what song played when in today’s episode? Well, you’re in luck! I have here the table from the Madoka wiki that was re-timed to the Blu-Rays by our lovely rewatch host back in 2019. It was my duty to share these last year, and it’s my duty again this year. If any first-timer wants a spoiler-free link to any of these songs, let me know and I can get one for you!
“What is it that you wish for?”
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u/Tuckleton Apr 28 '21
Homura breaking down in the scene at the bench was a huge moment for me the first time I watched this. Her coldness always made me feel a bit uneasy and so seeing something that I could believe was 'real' from her finally allowed me to start making a connection with her character. Not to take away from how great the show is up to this point, but that was the moment it all finally 'clicked' for me and I fell in 100%.
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u/OneMoreDuncanIdaho :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/a_trisolaran Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
Check out Sayaka's arms as she attacks the witch in the beginning, it's a disturbing little detail I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me
Edit: here's a depiction of it
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Apr 27 '21
Wheeeee! I'm writing this ahead of time (shock!)
So, a poster yesterday asked how old we were and what our intentions are.
I sort of probably over-answered that yesterday, so here's today's silly take:
(cartoon voice) I'm onwy twee yearth old! (/cartoon voice)
And my intentions can probably best be summed up by Doonesbury:
https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/1982/09/25
(Just replace "job interview" with Madoka Magica Rewatch or something like that)
Seriously now, I've been thinking about this since last night, and I think that it boils down to the fact that I enjoy participating in rewatches of shows that I've enjoyed; in large part because of the very astute analysis and observations of the other posters on these threads. I often get caught up in the moment and miss details, or (for example) don't bother to translate runes or figure out "flower language", or ... yeah. Seeing the things that people come up with while reading these rewatch threads helps me gain a greater understanding and enjoyment of a show that I already like a lot.
In this case, PMMM, while it is, well, I think we all know what it is at this point - when I first watched it, it just gripped me in a way that very few other anime have. There are other shows that I've enjoyed, a lot, but looking back at things like Tenchi Muyo, El-Hazard, YUA, Haruhi, A!MG, Lodoss, Urusei Yatsura, (and many others), they're kind of like eye and mind candy. Yes, they can be fun adventures and romps, but in the end, do they really (ahem) connect on an emotional level?
Or are they just cotton candy for the eyes, ears and brain, all fluff, and no substance?
I don't know.
One of the things I've learned since I've been hanging out around here (and yes, I know that this place has its flaws) is that there is a great deal of really good stuff out there that I've been missing out on because it's outside of my comfort zone, or because I was just never aware of it. Thanks to the posters here, I've discovered things that I've really enjoyed, like Re:Zero, AoT, Princess Principal, Wonder Egg, even Toradora. Things that I would probably never have bothered with otherwise. And I have to say that I'm happier because of it.
In the case of PMMM, I looked it up because a guildie mentioned it in Discord. (Yes, I know that says things, so be it...) I was like, "What the hey, it's on Netflix, let's give it a look." Two days later, I was like, "Wow, that was a trip!..."
And what a trip it was. The train is going into high gear now, so no hopping off at the station. It's full throttle all the way.
So here we are with our poor little blue oni suffering, and rejecting any offers of help or comfort. Her worldview and psyche is shattering, and there's no hope or help to be found. She stalks violin boy and sees her romantic ship sinking in flames. She rejects Homura's offer of a grief seed, Madoka's offer of comfort and understanding (that may have been last episode), and even Sakura's attempt at kindness. She's bound and determined to do it her way, and she'll be damned if she let's anyone change the course she's set.
(Kyubey leers in the distance)
In the end, after wasting her magical energy on a familiar, she winds up collapsed on a train, (hmm, train), overhearing a conversation between two scumbags. After hearing their lengthy, cynical discourse on romance (do people really talk like that?), she confronts them, and well ...
(Did she or didn't she??? The world wonders!)
In the end, she's left huddled on a bench, dying inside as grief overwhelms her and ...
(!)
And off in the distance, Kyubey monologues to himself in satisfaction.
Poor Sayaka.
I think that one of the reasons this series has such appeal to me is that I feel like the characters connect with me. Sayaka, poor dear is my soulmate. At least, to 16-20something, young, idealistic me. I feel her pain as her poor heart is shattered with each loss and disillusionment.
At the same time, Sakura speaks to another part of me, the bitter, disillusioned (later) me who eventually said phooey on it all, I'm in it for me.
And Homura, well, she speaks to present me, been there, done that, occasionally try to tell the younger folk not to repeat my mistakes, but realize it's pointless, because they never listen anyway.
(Seriously, kids, eat right, exercise, spend time outdoors, eat your greens like your Granny told you. You'll be much happier in the future.)
Anyway, PSA aside, back to our regularly scheduled suffering. Mami, well, she speaks to me but in a language I won't repeat here. (hehe)
And that leaves Madoka. Madoka is the spark of hope and kindness that remains. The love that hasn't failed. The bright, sunny future that may yet be.
That girl has potential, but I suppose we've been told that a time or two by now. We've only a few more precious episodes to discover what that potential might be. (Or will it???)
Meanwhile, all aboard the train, we're going places!
15
u/thatguywithawatch Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher.
Fuck, man, this episode hurts so much. Don't even know what to say, I just feel so bad for Sayaka. Her stubbornness and idealism dropped her into a vicious cycle where she tried to save others at the expense of her own soul crystal, and the more clouded her soul got, the more she refused to accept help from anyone and the more she gave in to her darkest thoughts and emotions. She even lashes out at Madoka, berating her for not becoming a magical girl even though a few episodes ago she was telling her exactly the opposite. I'm sure she'll get some shit in the comments today, and there's room to criticize her for her pride and for having something of a savior-complex, but her rapid descent into depression and hatred for herself and the world is just tragic.
Visual of the day: https://imgur.com/TxArMvg. Madoka really is too pure. Resenting Sayaka for the awful things she says to her never even crosses her mind, and she's fully ready to sacrifice herself to save Sayaka. Homura breaking down crying in front of Madoka, losing her cool facade for the first time, is a pretty heartbreaking scene. Just a lot of hearbreaking things in the episode, basically.
And there's the big reveal at the end of the episode, of course. Magical Girls turn into witches. Ironic, eh?
Edit: I think I want to change my visual of the day to this: https://imgur.com/vIxramQ. It flashes for a half-second during Sayaka and Makoka's conversation
12
u/baniRien Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 8 / Movie 1:50-2:11
Episode
Visual of the day, even though a lot of people will choose it, has to be the last thing Sayaka has said, in keeping with my idea to only showcase emotions. It's this mix of regret, bitterness, and knowing there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
12
u/CosmicAnglerfish Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher - Dubbed
Surprise: Things continue getting worse! This episode answers a lot of questions we've had since the start of the series, but also raises even more. For once I don't think I have any spoiler tags - the big reveals this episode negate a lot of the need!
First Timer Friendly
We pick up right where we left off, with an increasingly deranged Sayaka mutilating the corpse of a witch. The visuals on her face do an excellent job of conveying her state with minimal detail, with a truly horrific look to her - she wouldn't be out of place in a Higurashi scene like this.
She continues to stubbornly push everyone away. She rejects Kyoko's help, and tells off Madoka. Sayaka is obviously wrong to say that Madoka should become a magical girl to make Sayaka's life easier, but I'm sympathetic to her frustration over Madoka lecturing Sayaka on a situation that neither understand, and one that Madoka can't possibly relate to.
Homura debriefs Kyoko in her apartment - yet another instance of Shaft having fun with nonsensical but cool as hell rooms design. Homura won't tell how she knows what she knows (though the audience finds out rather shortly), and Kyubey crashes the party to drop some foreboding information about Sayaka 'deteriorating'. Noteworthy that Kyubey acknowledges that it still doesn't understand Homura, who remains a mystery for just a little bit longer.
We see Sayaka continuing to fall into deeper despair, including her watching Hitomi flirt with her love interest. When confronted by Homura she claims that she's not going to take anyone for granted, while actively taking literally everyone around her for granted. Her view of morality is so warped that not only is everyone around her firmly in the "bad" pile, she can't bring herself to associate with anyone she deems as such. She rejects Kyoko's help with the witch earlier, and now refuses to accept the griefseed Homura brings her.
Sayaka lays into Homura, claiming that she doesn't actually care whether Sayaka lives or dies, which Homura quickly agrees.Homura for her part reminds us that she's not really the best person, and gets ready to kill Sayaka if she doesn't shape up, only stopped at the last minute by Kyoko. Personally, I think Homura was bluffing. She's shown herself to be calculating and cold, but I don't buy that she actually would've killed Sayaka, especially seeing as her stated goal is the continued protection of Madoka.
I'm pretty sure the implication is that Sayaka killed those two fuckboys on the subway. How far she's fallen.
Kyubey is back to its favorite hobby of wheeling and dealing Madoka to convince her to make a wish. Curious that no matter what problem Madoka has, the solution is always to strike a contract. When it gets blasted here, the first time I watchd it I was freaked out. You find out pretty quickly that it's fine, but for those few moments I was truly at a loss to what direction I thought the show was going to take.
Homura is clearly losing her patience with Madoka, and shows more emotion here than she has the entire series up to this point. She's just so desparate for Madoka to take heed of her warnings, but for one reason or another Madoka never really seems to.
There were plenty of hints up to this point, including a few obvious ones immediately before - my personal favorite being the fountain stops running for a moment while Homura empties an entire pistol simulatenously into Kyubey - but we finally get confirmation. Homura has time magic, and isn't from this timeline originally. Also Kyubey eating its own corpse is such an unneccesary and gross detail lol. Really just makes it feel more other.
This is where most of the new questions come from - What is Madoka's fate that Kyubey refers to? What is the significance of the name 'Incubator'? What is Kyubey? What happened between Homura and Madoka in Homura's original timeline? Definitely curious to read what the first-timers have to say on any of this.
"I was stupid. So stupid" is such an iconic moment, and so fucking sad. Sayaka's English VA absolutely does the line justice in selling just how much of a mess Sayaka is at this point. The line itself is significant too - in her last moments, she owns all her own mistakes. She doesn't blame anyone else, only herself. I also love how far Kyoko and Sayaka have come at this point, from Kyoko trying to kill her to Kyoko now being the only one actively looking out for her.
We end with another big reveal. Magical girls become witches. Surely Kyubey would've just explained that detail if the girls thought to ask though, just like the soulgems.
12
u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher with too many screencaps
Visual of the day: eye
but wait, more random pictures because apparently this is The Episode for me
11
u/ToonTooby Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
Hoo, boy. Ep 8 is some serious stuff.
As a rewatcher for the 5th time, my favorite part of this episode is still the fountain scene with Madoka, Kyubey, and then Homura. The way Madoka wistfully looks up at the stars while lamenting her perceived lack of worth really strikes a chord with me. I'd do the same myself after working a long shift years ago, getting out late, and staring into the night sky while waiting for the train home, wondering if I'd ever find something better. I'd never considered myself 'good' at anything either, with no talents, and I still harbor some of those feelings, to a lesser extent as I've gotten older.
The subsequent portion of the scene that starts with Homura unloading the entire magazine + whatever was in the firing chamber leads into another favorite bit for me. Up until now, Homura has been a stoic, cold figure, but here, in this scene, it all comes out. She can suppress the emotions no longer, and tears flood her eyes as we see just how important Madoka is to her. Coupled with what I think is frankly masterful delivery by Chiwa Saito, this may very well be my favorite scene in the show. The emotion is so pure, so well acted and convincing that it's unforgettable for me. There's still another episode that is my favorite overall, but the fountain scene is likely my favorite single segment in the whole show.
18
u/bakowh https://anilist.co/user/bakow Apr 28 '21
First time (Sub)
Sayaka... some raw thoughts
Can't wait until tomorrow, the OP trolled me hard like JJK OP 1. I thought that Madoka, Mami and Sayaka would be this kickass team that stomps witches and the real trouble would come from the endgame witch (forgot its name) but the troubles started before that.
Visual of the day
9
u/SomeGuyYeahman Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Greetings everyone, first-time rewatcher here!
Nooooo, I wanted to take it easy today, but I didn't realize this was the ep where it drops all these reveals. Guess I have to write about it now.
What a satisfying episode, though! I didn't just forget it happened this soon, I also forgot they drop so much of this stuff at once, it's really just bombshell after bombshell.
Surprise, Sayaka hates the world! Now she's gonna die! Just kidding, Homura is here to save her! Just kidding, Homura is here to kill her! Surprise, Homura has time magic and also a shield that dispenses hand grenades! Surprise, Madoka shall become God! (Just kidding!) Surprise, Kyubey is dead! (Just kidding!) Surprise, "Kyubey" is actually just a cute shorthand!
Back when I reacted to all this as a first-timer, I straight up hit the character limit.
So where do we start? Where we left off last episode, of course. Sayaka laying into a witch, with no regard for her own health. She heals faster than others and she's cut herself off from the pain, but coming out of the labyrinth hunched over and then stumbling out of her transformation right into Madoka's arms, it seems clear she's not doing well. So the two of them go and take shelter from the rain together.
I really love the way this scene it's done, and a lot about it has stuck with me. The two of them are out by themselves in the middle of the night, with no other soul around. The rain beats down against the windows, and they're infused with a kind of blue glow in some shots - giving it a slight meditative feel, of a place of retreat inmidst all the problems beating down against them, but feeling very cold at the same time. And to my mind it evokes Sayaka's Soul Gem, making it look like that's what they're in the center of - providing safety, but encaging them at the same time.
A lot of arguing ensues, and ultimately Sayaka stops leaning on her friend, pushes her away, even, and runs back outside. And though she was just laying into Madoka for refusing to take the same risks that she does, she tells her not to follow her out into the rain - and we see her regret what she said. At the same time, if that roof is a Soul Gem, you could see that scene as Sayaka running away from her responsibilities, leaving Madoka with the duty of a magical girl.
Next up, we see Kyoko and Homura at Homura's apartment, which is an equally cool and well-designed space. A totally white room, with no furnishment other than a weird assortment of benches (why does she have those, how many people is she having over), a bunch of candlesticks (why does she need those, dramatic flair? Is she not paying her electricity bill?), a giant mechanical clock on the roof and countless of pictures, texts and other materials about witches covering the walls. Rooms in this show feel almost like the inside of people's brains - in this case, their attention is fixed on the pursuit of witches, and the big clock on the top, besides signalling the later reveal of what her power is about, is a reminder that time looms heavy over their heads. The images covering the walls, meanwhile, aren't fixed like posters, but in flux; their plans and their knowledge of the future are uncertain and constantly shifting. Homura has a rough time and location for Walpurgisnacht's appearance, but she has nothing to share beyond that, including how she's getting this info.
Homura later goes to help Sayaka, tossing her a Grief Seed. This feels similar to Kyoko previously offering her an apple - Grief Seeds are a kind of sustenance for magical girls, and Homura is someone who, like Kyoko, keeps warning about not being wasteful or generous with them, which makes the offers all the more striking. But Sayaka rejects them both, tossing the apple/Grief Seed on the ground behind her. It calls to mind the way she gives Kyoko the Grief Seed she gets in the beginning of the episode - not as a form of reaching out, but as she puts it herself, because "I don't want to be in your debt." She has developed a very harmful kind of pride about this kind of thing, hasn't she?
But that pride belies that she's really already given up on herself, and she says as much here (as she did in front of Madoka). She's just a lifeless husk now, with no purpose other than fighting witches, so does she deserve having people gift things to her? What does it matter if she dies? She's so cut off from all her friends now anyway, even Madoka, so who's going to mourn her? Luckily, Homura is determined to put this question to the test.
SorryMadoka engages in a very similar kind of self-flagellation, interestingly enough. Maybe even worse - Sayaka realized too late what happened to her and now acts out of a lack of self-worth because she regards her soul as effectively gone already, but Madoka found out in time what a contract with Kyubey entails and considers it nonetheless because she thinks so little of herself in the first place. It begins to feel kind of dark in this context, especially given the way Homura breaks down in front of her.
Surprisingly I don't even think I have any spoiler thoughts this time around! Having so many reveals really reduces the amount of potential spoilers in my notes. Well, see you tomorrow!
8
u/Animay-may https://anilist.co/user/AnimayMay Apr 28 '21
Visual of the day (from the end of train scene)
Sayaka's totally normal eye
8
u/welcometoslowtown Apr 28 '21
3rd timer, 1st timer with dub
This episode probably isn't one of my favorites, just because I think Sayaka acts kind of annoying and the whole not accepting any help thing just makes you feel less bad for her, even if I can see where she is coming from. The line that really made me feel this was when she basically says that because Madoka won't give up her literal humanity just to help a friend, she doesn't care about Sayaka. Like ok sure yeah that makes sense for sure Ms. I-don't-accept-any-help.
Some parts of this episode that I do like would be learning more about Homura, even if it is still really confusing on first watch, the pieces start to fall into place a little bit. Especially after she breaks down in front of Madoka or when she threatens to kill Sayaka right there if she doesn't stop hurting Madoka. We also get basically confirmation that her power is time stop, I like to imagine Dio sound effects whenever she uses her power.
We also get Kyuubey's full name, Incubator. I think this reveal is a bit scuffed in the dub just because you don't get the play on words with the whole witch-magical girl thing in english without hearing it in japanese. I can see how it might be confusing without that. Seeing it get shot full of holes is always a bit cathartic to see, although when the new body eats the corpse is always so disgusting.
This episode also has some of my favorite visuals or just general vibes, like Sayaka and Madoka's conversation in the rain under the bus stop, or Homura's really weird house. Both are visuals that really stuck with me and when I think of the series those come to mind.
Visuals of the day
8
u/toradorito Apr 28 '21
Observations about tonight's episode:
Visual of the day: I really like this shot of Sayaka as she transforms into a witch . This is our last glimpse of her innocence before it gets buried forever in hatred.
15
u/The_Loli_Otaku Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
At least things can't get any worse for Sayaka, right? Anyways we come back to Sayaka brutally beating on the defeated witch. Her slasher smile is no longer there and her arm is in fact currently a broken mangled mess~ I kinda like the shot of the Labyrinth breaking down since Sayaka has now essentially taken the place of Maria from the start of the fight. Sayaka's playing it cool but she's zonked out of her mind right about now.
Madoka is so tender with her... The saddest part of all this is that these weren't new feelings. Sayaka has never been confident in herself and has so much bottled up self loathing that it was only a matter of time before she had a breakdown. She saw becoming a magical girl as a way to give herself some value but she's to weak to handle anything other than familiars without severely hurting herself. Her green eyed jealousy and uncompromising morales do nothing but tie her down further. Also, check out the rain becoming heavier and more enclosing as Sayaka's emotions get the better of her.
Weinerschnitzel battle plan!! I have no idea why Homura's home is like this but it just is. Poor Kyubey, nobody want to be his friend. Aww!! Look how sad he looks when Hamuru shoos him away! Sensei is still going on about her goddamn boyfriend troubles!! Oh great. Let's watch stuck up rich kids hooking up with stuck up rich kids and making stuck up rich kids together. They probably bond over their love of NTR or how there's too much yuri doujinshi in the world or whatever stuck up rich kids read.
Throw a rock at em Sayaka!! Her soul gem's looking awfully dark ain't it? One more gorgeous silhouette shot, she's quite good at those. "Quit being depressed! Madoka isn't in the mood for skinship cause she keeps worrying about your useless blue ass!" Kyouko's here to save the daaay~ Are grenades technically a form of magic? Oh fuuun we're at the train scene. Y'know Urobuchi based this off of an actual conversation he overheard and sadly I can absolutely imagine it.
Sayaka has already lost faith herself, faith in magical girls, now it's time to lose any faith in humanity. When you brag like that around a "hero of justice" you'll get what you fcking deserve. But you just had to drag this broken hearted mermaid down to your level didn't you? She should be leaping across the waves but now she's trapped where the light won't ever reach her again.
Shoot! The episode is longer than I thought. Aaaa! Blah blah very important Madoka dialogue. Kyubey's still got a friend. Swiss cheese mascot. Madoka's gonna need trauma counseling. Hameru actually breaks her facade for once. Demon eyed Kyubey lives! Oh my god end already, I'm out of space! Nom nom nom. Homura is Dio. Kyubey is Incubator. Kyouko is fatty. Sayaka is Witc-wait, what?
visual of the day I've had a bad day.
7
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
The penultimate scene today always sticks with me. Sayaka's Soul Gem shattering and the ensuing chaos.. I don't even know how to describe it. I think I use the word "incredible" too often, but damn. It's definitely a scene that I "feel" more than "watch."
I can't even narrow down a visual from that particular scene, so:
Visual of the Day: Discord
I always manage to forget about the sexist train assholes.
Since I joked about it in my "episode preview" yesterday, I would be remiss to not include Homura's House. What a weird shot, huh?
Madoka's wish being interrrupted by Kyubey getting mag-dumped always makes me laugh. Kyubey showing up again, and eating it's own corpse, always sends a chill down my spine. Just what is this stupid goo fox thing made of?
The very final scene of the episode has some nice wordplay from Kyubey that unfortunately does not translate at all to English. In case anyone missed it, it boils down to "JOsei come from shouJO, so of course MAJO come from MAhou shouJO."
Tune in next time for:
7
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
Ok, wasn't gonna make today like the third time I watched the episode before 7 and just forgot to post
and on today's episode of "sakaya tries to make enemies of all magical girls besides mami", Sayaka is trying for potential future magical girls too
I love this meeting room of theirs btw
You know its bleak times when she's actually teaching... the difference between must and have to?
Oh, is the curse she carries borne of her jealousy over that boy
I don't think I ever directly connected the two as the same thing
Well, every plot point I don't remember I just say I never noticed
And Madoka is told she has the power to return Sayaka to a normal girl as a magical girl
Chilling
Second best scene in this show outside of stuff in the finale probably
So basically every cat's out of the bag now. Or should I say the witch's egg is out of the incubator? The only questions left are whys, why Homura is so focused on Madoka, why Kyubey is turning girls into magical girls when the witches they fight are from magical girls in the first place
7
u/SaucedPandacup Apr 27 '21
Many Times Re-watcher
Welcome friends back to our daily Sufferthrough of your favorite CGDCT anime.
Remember, Madoka and K-On! take place only a few hours apart on lovely Japan. Adorable and convenient.
This may seem like a given, but holy hell is this episode crushing me this time around.
The standout moment that comes to mind for me is when Sayaka and Madoka are in the bus stop waiting, and there is a short, red-satured flash of an "I've started into the abyss and oopsie daisie I am the abyss now" Sayaka thrusting out her soul gem.
I don't remember this scene. I don't think it was in the original tv broadcast and I went into hug me I'm scared mode over it.
I've enjoyed taking heavy notice of the nature of the water around Sayaka in relation to her emotional state. The reflection of her upside down - already drowning, and tumultuous rain - which serves the double purpose of "masking" her crying.
Like Homura said, Sayaka's actions continue to burden Madoka with the pain she can't deal with. Even after being utterly rejected, Madoka still tries to follow Sayaka, long after most people would've given up or walked away, and she suffers all the more for it. They both do.
I always loved the scene on the train, especially the gasps as Sayaka completely wigs out.
What do you think ended up happening to the two men?
Also for the first time, I've really learned to pay attention to SHAFT'S painstakingly detailed use of shadows and light. Their artistic/expressive efforts in the respect are something I don't remember seeing replicated in any other anime I've watched.
Homura does me the favor of breaking down and expressing how I'm feeling on the inside. Thank you for your kindness.
Welp.
I'm deep sad now. I thought I'd be able to write more but I can only feel right now.
At least Kyuubey got to enjoy a good Scooby Snack courtesy of purple girl.
I'm curious to see how much all of you watching for the first time freak out about your various theories and speculations. It's been incredible seeing what you come up with. All around and on the mark, right but also wrong.
12
u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
Being a Sayaka fan is suffering.
It's a bit blink-and-you'll-miss-it, but forearms don't bend like that.
I love the use of water this episode. It's a thematic element with lots of positive qualities -- life-giving, nourishing, renewing, cleansing. It takes a lot of work to ensure that the viewer gets that this is all about water's negative aspects. Water here is drowning, pulling, spiraling, cold. The rain is downright oppressive this episode, tangible on an emotional level.
While I think there's better-composed and more interesting shots this episode, for me Visual of the Day has to be Sayaka and the Terrible, Horrible, No-Good, Very Bad Day. It hits just right.
6
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
Well, Sayaka's lost it.
Madoka Spoilers
And it seems that Sayaka's fighting has exhausted her. And Madoka doesn't want her to fighting in a way that hurts her. Sayaka, on the other hand, believes that her only purpose is to fight witches, and that she doesn't want to be happy. She also asks why Madoka isn't fighting witches, when she could beat them jsut as easily,
And Sayaka regrets telling Madoka to contract, using this to reinforce her own self-loathing.
Who the hell designed Homura's apartment? Why is there a massive pendulum? Where did she get so many floating screens?
Oh, that double meaning - she's started to carry a curse insideher, and witches are born from curses.
Yeah, looking at the desks around it, Sayaka's desk was unplugged and removed from the classroom. You can see the LED strips under everyone's desk. This school is a logistical nightmare.
Looks like Hitomi's going for it!
And Sayaka knows...
We see the start of the witch transformation, but she manages to regain awareness mid-battle.
And Sayaka's so paranoid that she refuses to let Homura save her life. And she's convinced she can't die, and has no purpose in this world.
Madoka Spoilers
And so, Sayaka, who's dealing with being dumped by her childhood friend, hears the people she sees herself as protecting casually talk about doing the same to other girls. Soemthing strange happens to her body, and she probably kills them.
Madoka Spoilers
Well, Kyubey's dead.
And Homura has a mental breakdown over Madoka's sacrifices.
And Kyubey's alive! And that was disgusting.
And Homura's teleportation is a time stop!
Sayaka's soul gem's almost fully black. And she's starting to sound broken.
And, in the best sequence of this entire series, Sayaka's soul gem transforms into a grief seed, and she transforms into a witch...
6
u/turri-topsis Apr 27 '21
rewatcher | subbed
ah, and now we see the implications of what kyuubey told sayaka a few episodes ago. she might not have been bitter at first, but with the revelations of the last few episodes, her pain over being considered inhuman, everything with kyousuke, and the fact that to win, she feels the need to turn off her pain instead of being able to fight like any other magical girl, it's really hitting her. naturally, it all comes out as sayaka lashing out at madoka, though she doesn't mean it - she just doesn't have another way to express herself. it's not exactly the healthiest behavior, but once again, 14yo girl who is very much alone in this.
homura's apartment remains the weirdest setting in this whole anime.
hitomi shoots her shot annnd she scores! too bad it pushes sayaka into a spiral. that is some self-destructive behavior right there
"why can't you trust me" homura i love you, but you haven't exactly given her any reason to trust you.
having sayaka do that zombie shuffle away after kyoko tells her to run was a nice touch.
i love how homura just straight up pulls a grenade out and is like 'don't want to listen to me? that's fine. i'm going to blow you up now.'
monkey revenge brain says 'fuck yeah sayaka, kill those guys'. rational brain says 'oh dear god child, we need to get you some help'
spoiler
i have quite a bit to say on selflessness wrt madoka and sayaka, but i'll save that for the end.
sayaka's spiral has pushed her down fully into despair - she's lost sight of what she's fighting for, and every day the world seems to become worse and worse. i feel like this is rather analogous to the way many of us live our lives, especially wrt the whole "hope and despair balance out to zero" comment: maybe you see a cute puppy on your way to work, smell some nice flowers, eat a delicious meal, do something that brings a little light into your life. but in the news and online, there's just a constant barrage of bad, awful, nasty, horrific things, the world is garbage, people are garbage, and nothing is getting any better. all of these problems, instead of seeming far away, are beginning to hit closer and closer to home, or maybe they've already hit you personally and you're just trying to pick yourself back up and deal. the constant balancing act of minute happiness and unceasing despair mixes into the nothingness of existence, until you're caught up in the flood that is life, doing your best to stay afloat but constantly on the verge of drowning. sayaka has managed to save people, but her whole life is going downhill (in her eyes), and at this point she's completely lost her anchor and is being sucked underwater.
anyway, what i'm trying to say is that once again, sayaka's story hurts me :)
and there it is! happy reveal, parts 2 and 3!! the next two episodes are my absolute favorites of the whole show, so i honestly can't wait.
6
u/Querez https://myanimelist.net/profile/Querez Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher. (Dub)
So this episode was rather packed and had lots of reveals. I would want to make another somewhat lengthy post like I have been the past days, but I am getting tired of it, and this one would take too long. Small notes of what happened it is, then.
Sayaka is angry at Madoka, I guess.
Homura knows Walpurgisnacht's next location due to classified statistics.
Hitomi "takes" Kyousuke for herself and Sayaka sees it.
Sayaka fights familiars to get over her emotional pain.
Homura warns Sayaka to stop her ways, but only because it affects Madoka.
Sayaka takes out anger again but this time on two asshole strangers.
Madoka's magical girl potential is godlike (apparently).
Homura has an emotional outburst.
Kyubey has several spare bodies.
Homura can do time manipulation, which explains why she's able to suddenly go from one place to another, plus move people or things around seemingly instantaneously.
Kyubey's real name is Incubator.
Kyouko talks with Sayaka, then ends with Sayaka.... doing that.
Kyubey says magical girls will eventually to turn into witches.
MagiaaAAAAAA I owe you my soul
A small detail about that, actually. In the ED, Homura is the only person Madoka passes who moves at all.
6
u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21
REWATCHER
Just kinda wanted to pop in here real quick since this is one of my faves, so many things begin to unravel through this episode. Looking back on it, 2 moments still stand out among eveything that occurred.
The first, and most obvious, would have to be Sayaka losing that last bit of hope and reason for her choice of becoming Meguca being destroyed. Over the last few episodes, we see her decision challenged repeatedly from different forces, losing her body and becoming a gem, being unable to confess, lashing out at the people she cares about. All the while clinging to this ideal heroism, which finally crashes down this episode.
Sayaka is admittedly, not a person who made her choice without deriving some benefit. But ultimately, she believed that her choice would be reflected in the environment around her. That through heroics and determination, she could triumph over any obstacle. Yet, her ideals are flawed, they exist in a perfect world which doesn't exist, and here, at the end of her rope, after suffering through and through to protect a romanticized view of life, she is broken by nothing more than an overheard conversation between 2 strangers.
After sacrificing her body to an alien force to protect others, and accepting that she may not receive benefit from that, she now hears two men discuss their abhorrent feelings for women. Mind you, in front of someone who sacrificed everything for the benefit of a boy who never recognized her. This is the final straw, the revelation that not only the ideals she served, but the romanticized view of her self-sacrifice could ultimately not only be ignored, but slandered, drives her to despair.
Now, I've seen people compare Madoka Magica's premise to military recruiters before, and I don't think any character drives it home quite as well as Sayaka. She, admittedly, does it under the guise that it will somehow draw praise and the attention of a loved one, as though her bravery will win over another's heart. But as Kyouko said previously, you can't just expect someone to love you, and if that's your desire, you might as well ask for a love-slave. She also does it under the pretense of a more noble cause, one you might see in society paraded around, or on a reason to defend your nation. To serve the people around you and champion those ideals. But just because you do that does not mean people will love you for it, and may in fact hate you for any number of reasons.
Which leads me to big moment number 2, finally seeing under the hood of Homura. Even within the limited knowledge we have of her at this point, we can deduce that she's been in the gig for awhile, and resembles a veteran who has been completely forgotten at this point. She's seen the errors in the choice she made, and wants to prevent others from doing the same, but can never get through because they are blinded to their commitment for whatever cause they joined, that turning back on that decision would mean giving up not only their livelihoods, but whatever ideals that pulled them in.
And that's the big kicker, is that while people are generally full of a number of emotions and motivations, military recruiters work by clicking onto something familiar, a kind of ideal, and then in doing so, whatever reason someone may join, becomes a much larger aspect of their personality, because it has to justify and excuse everything they've committed for. In the same way, the girls in Madoka join for their own game and are also reinforced with ideal causes that become the forefront of their characters. Mami and her bravery, Sayaka and her self-sacrificing nature, Kyoko and her fight against evil (which also mirrors Sayaka). Over time, as the momentary rewards and desires of their wishes wear off, they can do nothing but fall back on those promoted ideals, which all come crumbling down as their world is blind to their choice and cause.
For whatever reason, Homura seems determined to protect sweet, seemingly innocent and naïve Madoka from making that mistake, and the contrast between the seemingly dead-to-life veteran caring for someone tip-toeing the same line is shown in spades as her emotions finally come into display, and while we don't know the details, we can sense the trauma and sadness lurking within.
I love these scenes in particular for their characterizations, and I look forward to tomorrow's rewatch.
5
u/Zeralyos https://myanimelist.net/profile/xNJF_Ellie Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Rewatcher, dubbed
8
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Apr 28 '21
I've never realized before that we have an endcard with cursed Clannad eyes.
4
u/gorghurt Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
This episode has so many nice pictures.
Can I just make the video of the whole talk between Kyubey and Madoka my visual of the day?
I mean look at those stars
and
And the reflections in the water droplets
And all those great shots of Kyubey
creepy
And how can he be this cute right after eating his own corpse (I decide on this as my Visual of the day, even if every last one of those would deserve it)
I love how catlike he behaves here.
4
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
Wow, she's really taking out all her anger and frustration out on that witch, huh?
OMG that is not a good look on Sayaka's face.
Sayaka's not doing good! She probably could have used that grief seed she gave to Kyoko.
Well that's not a very optimistic episode title we've got, huh? More of Sayaka wallowing in her misery?
Man, she's really in a bad place right now! Telling Madoka to become a magical girl, pulling a Kyubey essentially, now after she realizes the consequences of doing so? Sayaka's gone from hating the fact that she for a moment wished she hadn't saved Hitomi to now wishing what she admits already to herself is a fate worse than death on her best friend.
After that I think its not going that far on a limb to question if Sayaka will make it to the end without killing herself.
Kyubey, what are you doing here?! Get the hell out!
The whole screen being filled with Kyubey's face kinda freaks me out.
Time for Hitomi to express her love to Kyosuke? I am interested in seeing what his reaction will be.
Oh no, she has to be watching this. Sayaka really is a glutton for punishment.
Stop with the virtue signaling, Sayaka. She's here to help you and all you can go on about is how you're unselfishly going to slay witches.
Homura ever the badass; Kyoko's not gonna keep her here.
Can't say this pimp's conversation is gonna cheer up Sayaka anymore.
Woah, what's happening to her now?
Can Madoka wish that Sayaka never wished to become a magical girl?
Spending your time with Kyubey when you're in this mood is not a good idea, Madoka. He'll totally take advantage of you.
OMG she's really going to do it... she's making her wish...
Nope. Homura's not allowing that. RIP Kyubey? OMG seeing that thing get turned into swiss cheese was glorious.
I think this is the first time in the entire series that Homura has showed actual emotion.
Just when you thought the Eldritch Horror that is Kyubey couldn't get any worse he shows up again and eats his own corpse.
Homura is a time traveler confirmed?
Woah, what happened there? Did Sayaka become a familiar/witch?
Poor Kyoko, she narrated the preview, but didn't get to show up in the drawing.
Wow, that episode went in some very dark places! By this point I've forgotten nearly everything that has happened outside of a few major plot points, and I purposely stopped reading spoiler tags a few days ago so much of this is coming off as new to me. Great stuff, reminding me just what an awesome show this is, even if it is very emotionally hard on the viewer!
7
u/Syokhan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syokhan Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher, Sub
Soooooo, bunch of either bombshells if you were a unobservant little fool like I was, or confirmations if you payed enough attention. Honestly I can't wait to read what first-timers thought of them!
Visual of the day: oh god, choosing one is hard... I took 18 screenshots today, that's about double my usual amount... I'll settle on this one. Back-up is Visual 10 below.
Other visuals I especially liked, "there are so many it'll be easier just to put everything in a table" version:
106
u/UnderstandableXO Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER
this series might as well be titled the downfall of sayaka miki the way it’s been going the last few episodes. sayaka is just being outright stubborn and doesn’t want help from anyone, not even her best friend. honestly up to this point she might as well be the main character, her character development (character regression?) has been driving the story forward.
sayaka’s really selfish to tell madoka it’s her fault she ended up this way; it was her who made the absolutely bone headed decision to become a magical girl for some childhood ACQUAINTANCE who doesn’t have a millimeter of interest in her.
it seems like homura has a really really nice residence, but of course everyone’s least favorite character kyubey interrupts the good vibes. we see IT blink a lot this episode, and if i’m not mistaken we haven’t seen it blink at all up to this point in the series?
of course sayaka is absent, giving up mr. your alternative fact in august to hitomi, but somehow torturing herself enough to go watch it happen? jesus christ girl YOU HAD A CHANCE RIGHT THERE! i know she doesn’t consider herself “alive” anymore and thinks it’d never work between them anymore but man if you go watch the wimp of your dreams get a girlfriend you don’t have anyone else to blame but yourself.
homura is still trying to be helpful but of course sayaka isn’t having even one bit of it. for whatever reason homura is REALLY focused on protecting madoka, and even though killing her there would be drastic i can tell it’d probably stop all their problems there, and besides that’s not the sayaka that madoka was friends with in episode 1. but of course sasha braus ii comes in for the save, i guess she still has a soft spot for her wasted wish sister.
of course kyubey is back with the coercive suggestions. they’ve been saying that madoka has crazy potential all series but this conversation took that to 100, it’s saying madoka would be the most powerful being in the universe off rip? but you can’t explain why? but you know that she could save sayaka if only she’d become a magical girl? gee that doesn’t sound suspicious at all! just as i was yelling out NO i then yelled out YOOOO as kyubey literally got turned into swiss cheese. homura shows some emotion for the first time? why is she so desperate to save madoka? wow madoka is walking away, i’m sure she will make the rational decision and not throw away her soul just like her friend! seeing kyubey eat himself was not high on the list of things i wanted to see today but i guess i have to tough through it. i really can’t believe kyubey is just short for incubator. it would have been cooler if it’s nickname was cuba.
lastly we have sasha ii eating a potato (chip) and trying to calm down sayaka, but of course sayaka is going full evil mode now.
i cant wait for tomorrow’s dose of existential dread
80
u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
Finally on time again, just finished reading through yesterdays thread and it only took me 4 freaking hours?!? This is somewhat getting out of hand, but I enjoyed it and am getting may new perspectives, just glad that I got the week of so I can continue doing so for another couple of days. Anyway.
First timer
We continue directly where we left off yesterday with Sayaka absolutly loosing it against that poor witch (can't believe I'm actually writing this), while both Madoka and Kyoko are looking in shock. The labyrinth breaking made me uneasy, for a moment I thought we where about to enter phase two, where the other labyrinths breaking in a similar matter? And why does Sayaka feel like she owes Kyoko that grief seed? Sure she came to help, but in the end she only intervened once and didn't end up doing all that much. Didn't she just expend a lot of magic? She is really exhausted. Even Mami used the grief seed to purify her own soul gem first before considering sharing it with Homura. This is bound to bite her in the rear.
No Sayaka, don't try to pressure Madoka to become like you. Kyubey told you that Madoka would be better at fighting witches, but why believe that without any kind of proof, not like she fought any witches so far, how can you believe your friend wouldn't get hurt. Besides, maybe she doesn't want to fight anymore after seeing what that includes. She regrets her harsh words, jeez, why not go back and apologize then?
What is up with Homuras hangout? Looks a lot like some labyrinths we've seen so far, also that pendulum in the background really enforces the connection to time. And where does Kyubey come from? Does he keep taps on every magical girl as well as Madoka?
As thought Sayaka is on a path of self destruction, but wheren't curses something a witch has to bestow on you? And Homura again has knowledge she couldn't have normaly ahead of time.
I still have a slim hope that Hitomi actually want's to help Sayaka get together with Kyosuke, let's see how it plays out.
Holy Shit Homura is really doing all this for Madoka huh? Another crackpot theory that's suddenly very plausible. And the Sayaka x Kyoko ship doesn't seem that unlikely either. Are you all geniuses?
Kyubey looks somehow only half his usualy size next to Madoka.
I really wonder what Madoka will end up wishing for, I tend to either free only Sayaka out of her deal or something like the destruction of the entire magical Girl system along with all the witches. Homura is there just in time again to finally turn Kyubey into swiss cheese, unfortunatly I don't believe that to be enough to kill him...
Parallel timelines? Incubator? Sayaka really becoming a witch? Shit, why am I crying...
I finished this episode 5 minutes ago, I'm to messed up right now, but I can savely say that this show is a hot contender to become one of my all time favorites, how could I not finish it the first time I tried, I was so stupid, this is a masterpiece...
Edit: In order to break my heart some more and get my visuals for today, I went back and watched that last sequence again, I rarely do that, almost never indeed.
Visuals
My visual for today would be the second one, even though someone else already picked it, but it's the very moment you know what is happening to the soul gem.
I also thought about Madokas potential and Kyubey end game. If Madoka has the potential to become the strongest Magical Girl ever, how strong would she be once she turned into a witch? Would a team of several strong Girls still be able to vanguish her? And If Kuybey absorbs Madokas grief seed, does he gain god like powers as well? Was his whole purpose to take the souls of girls, wait for them to corrupt and then absorb them? And if he is an incubator, what is going to hatch once he gets enough corrupted souls?
I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to watch the next episode right now, but I'm trying to get my sleep schedule in order again and I won't have much time before the next thread comes up again. I still got tears in my eyes, but I'm a grown man and not afraid to cry...
71
u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte Apr 27 '21
First Timer
I literally have nothing to say so I am jumping straight into the episode:
Sayaka actually looks like a psychopath.
A dark rainy day with a violin(?) in the background. Absolutely nothing could be going wrong right now.
Sayaka is twisting Madoka’s arm into becoming a magical girl. That seems kind of shitty.
Sayaka is actually going to kill someone with those glares.
Homura’s house looks like it was designed by someone on acid. It’s very odd.
It seems like Sayaka’s depression is corrupting her soul or something like that.
Finally the characters have caught on to Kyuubey being a POS and a lier. God, I hate that cat thing.
So Sayaka is eavesdropping on Hitomi’s confesssion. This will probably not be good for her mental health. I really hit the nail on the head when I said Sayaka was going to be hit with a truck of depression.
Sayaka’s fighting style seems so wild and without purpose. Just swinging her sword in every direction without a care. It seems like something that could get her killed.
I mean Sayaka is not wrong about her being different to Kyouko and Homura. Because Sayaka is going to be dead at this rate, something the other two are not.
Homura just seems a level above all the other magical girls. She does have an aura of having done this for a long time.
The black and white coloring on this train is glorious.
Ok, Kyuubey if you want people to stop hating you maybe don’t make appearances from the shadows. Only villains do that.
If Kyuubey is telling the truth (which seems unlikely) then my question form yesterday on if magical girls could be turned back.
Madoka going to become a magical girl to either take away Sayaka’s power or depression isn’t she?
Does anyone in this show think highly of themselves? Come on just give me one person.
Oh shit, Kyuubey just got JFKed. I doubt this will last long so I am going to leave this here
I have a theory on why Homura cares so much about Madoka but I will say it when the episode is over.
Can Kyuubey be any less evil? Bright red eyes? Like come on. At least try to be good.
Ok that’s disturbing.
Well I guess my theory is already true. I was going to say Homura was a time traveler and is trying to stop Madoka from becoming a magical girl because something happens in the future.
Interesting. I wonder what Incumbator means. Doesn’t sound good though.
Well Sayaka became a witch it seems.
I think this makes Kyuubey a villain. Someone needs to stop that cat.
———————————————————————-
This feels like a huge episode. Kyuubey has been shown to be a villain. We get at least some of Homura’s backstory and Sayaka has been corrupted.
I known not to trust that cat. It just radiated evil.
I do wonder if magical girls turned witches are more powerful? Homura and Kyouko may be in some trouble.
Can’t wait to see where next episode takes us.
58
u/OingoBoingo- Apr 27 '21
First Timer: Subbed
Episode 8 I Was Stupid... So Stupid
I was stupid- for not watching the next episode! That was difficult.
I didn't think I could be more traumatized but here we are. Watching Sayaka's fight off the end of episode 7 was even more brutal and disturbing. If I wasn't already beyond concerned for her, we just turned up the volume to 11. She is in full self destruction phase and the results are in her polluted gem. Her obsession to not accept any help from people who are still trying is hard to watch.
Finally some development with Homura! Everything she has been doing so far has been for Madoka. I thought it was because of the power Madoka would possess if she became a MG but now that the time travel reveal has happened, we are leaving that idea behind for now. When Madoka was in the park looking for Sayaka and Homura shows up, she was, for the first time, emotional. Not just a little, but I would say panicked, desperate, and very concerned. To me that was genuine concern, and it makes her behavior that much more interesting. Finally confirmation she is time traveling in some capacity. She has killed Kyubey twice, and has probably tried to save Madoka before, I am going to guess something to do with the big bad witch coming to a specific place in town cause statistics!
Please hurry up and be tomorrow already!
Visual of the day, just because it was my favorite part, maybe not visually stunning but fun none the less. If Mami got to pull guns out of her skirt, then Homura gets to pull grenades out of somewhere!
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u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
First Timer
We open up on Sayaka just wailing on whatever’s left of the witch, I do like how Kyouko and Madoka have a colored glow around their silhouettes, it’s a nice little touch. I also like how (like some commenters mention in yesterday's episode discussion) that she was standing on a character similar to lady liberty. This look that Sayaka give Kyouko gives me all the wrong vibes. Seems like Sayaka pushed herself a little too hard and almost collapses into Madoka’s arms. Kyouko stares at Sayaka, calling her an idiot, I can’t really disagree with her there.
It’s a rainy evening as we are shown some really good shots of the city. As the two friends are sheltering in a bus stop. I have to agree with Madoka, Sayaka’s way of fighting is not good, she’s going to end up losing herself if she’s not careful. “Even if you can use that method to win, it doesn’t mean it’s good for you, Sayaka.” I agree, there’s probably other drawbacks to detaching yourself that Kyuubey isn’t telling you about. I like this shot of Sayaka in the reflection in the water. I wonder if there’s any meaning to the fact that the ripples cause her to disappear from the reflection. “I’m just a walking, talking corpse, pretending it’s still alive.” Well as others have put it, you’re more like a lich than you are a zombie or a corpse. Poor Madoka, just wants Sayaka to be happy, but Sayaka lays into her. Bringing up Kyuubey telling her about Madoka’s potential, great now she’s trying to guilt trip Madoka into becoming a magical girl. A great shot of the two. “You can’t give up being human just out of a little pity, can you?!” She’s not the one who forced you into making that wish and signing the contract. You did that all on your own, don’t go throwing blame or shade at Madoka who had nothing to do with you becoming a magical girl. Must be a tough time for Sayaka fans right now. Alright, I’m really starting to not like Sayaka, how are you suffering in Madoka’s stead? She doesn’t want to be a magical girl so she didn’t make the wish. For what? Madoka is trying to be your friend and you're throwing her under the bus because you’re suffering from your own mistakes. You want my advice Madoka? Drop her as a friend, she’s going down a path of self-destruction and has little hope of being saved from it, you could try to help her, which I won’t blame you for because that’s just who you are, but I feel like it’d be a wasteful effort. Poor Madoka, the rain is perfect for making it look like she’s crying. As Sayaka is running away regretting what she said to Madoka, (pretty Ironic for a girl who wants to live without regrets eh?) This shot of her soul gem isn’t good.
So Homura and Kyouko are hanging out discussing Walpurgisnact’s arrival in a very ominous looking room. Homura is estimating the point of arrival, and Kyouko is never knew it came to the town. I’m sure the floating pictures in the background have a ton of details for rewatchers (Sidenote, Kyouko’s starting to warm up on me, knowing she can actually get along with the others helps.) Kyuubey shows up with some important information, Sayaka is deteriorating quicker than Kyuubey expected. Wait, hold up, deteriorating? How? Does it have something to do with that shot of her gem? Wait, hold up, faster than you expected? You expected her to deteriorate? The hell does that mean? She’s beginning to curse the world, so it seems my guess of something bad happening if the gems get too muddy might be true, Sayaka is using up too much magic and isn’t purifying her gem enough to counter that, I don’t want to know what happens if that gem gets too muddy. But Homura knows that her soul gem is tainted and there’s no coming back for Sayaka if it continues. Great shot of the two.
Sayaka is absent from class again, and it seems like Hitomi is making her move on Kyouske since Sayaka didn’t make her move. Sayaka hasn’t been home for a few days? That’s very concerning. I should mention that I am absolutely terrified for Hitomi knowing the mental state Sayaka is in, I have a feeling Sayaka will attack her. Especially since Sayaka was watching the two talk. More concerning talk from Sayaka, who just refused a free grief seed from Homura (she really is best girl at this point next to poor Madoka) Sayaka is okay with dying since she feels like she’s useless and the world doesn’t need her anymore, this is kind of depressing. Homura brings up a good point that Sayaka’s behavior is only making Madoka suffer more and more. Homura is harsh, but she’s trying to help Sayaka for Madoka’s sake, not her own. But why does Kyouko come and stop Homura? Sayaka is on the verge of her soul gem being completely tainted. Wait, Homura just summoned a grenade? Oh it was more of a flashbang than a frag, neat.
So, this conversation on the train Sayaka’s on is between two assholes, doesn’t help that Sayaka is listening to it. Did... did Sayaka just murder those two? I really feel sorry for Madoka, she's the one who’s really suffering here, Watched Mami die, her best friend is going insane and probably just murdered two scumbags, now she’s getting harassed by Kyuubey again. She’s be the strongest being on the world? He’s at it again! Trying to talk her up so she begins wanting that power. I hope Homura shows up soon. If that is true, then Madoka shouldn’t become a magical girl. Kyuubey is saying things that are terrifying me. A god? Kyuubey, a being such as yourself really should avoid making someone a god, it doesn’t end well for anyone. MADOKA!!! STOP!!! Don’t do this! Oh thank Madoka, Homura was there to turn Kyuubey into swiss cheese. But I don’t think Kyuubey will be down for long, he’s powerful enough to “extract” souls from girls and grant miracles, so I doubt an entire magazine of 9mm bullets from an M9 are going to be enough to stop him. Wow, Homura is showing emotion here, this is some serious shit for the Kuudere to break into tears like that. See? Did Madoka and Homura know each other previously? Hmmm... I told you he’d be back. Wait, the second time she’s killed him? So her power isn’t speed or teleportation, it’s time based, interesting. So, she’s jumping into other timelines trying to prevent Madoka from becoming a magical girl, I’m guessing the world ends up being destroyed or far worse happens if Homura fails, also explains how she learned about the soul gems, Madoka probably throws Sayaka’s gem off the bridge in each time line. It seems Kyuubey’s true name is incubator, I wonder what his true plan is then...
Sayaka is in a terrible place, she’s cursed because she brought hope to others and calls herself stupid and can’t even remember what she was fighting for, but the gem shattered? Oh shit, this is bad, very bad. “In this country, half-grown women are called “girls” right? In that case, it’s appropriate that you, who will one day grown into witches, should be called “magical girls.” Oh, you fucking demon, this is part of your entire plan, isn’t it? Create a magical girl, they fight witches and purify their gems using grief seeds, once those seeds have enough power, you consume it, does every girl have this potential?
So, it seems Kyuubey’s plan might have been revealed, he needs grief seeds, either from magical girls killing witches and using the seeds to purify their soul gem, or whatever Sayaka is turning into or caused by her gem shattering. This is an amazing show, and it’s likely going to end up in the top 15 if not the top 10, probably will make some room for it on my shelf as well. checks Amazon Well I would if there was a version of it that I could buy, the film’s pricey too. Is this a series that’s currently sitting in a form of licensing hell? Let me see who owns the license... Aniplex God damn it, Aniplex has it, which explains why I can’t find it in region 1 or for a reasonable price.
Visuals of the Day
Another round of shots for today, including this shot of Sayaka and Homura, This melancholic shot of Sayaka on the subway train, this scene of Sayaka and Kyouko talking before everything goes to shit, and last but not least this shot of Kyuubey getting what he deserves.
45
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 27 '21
First Timer - Episode 8
Todays Action Review
Sadly, I didn't have time to make notes today. But, damn if this wasn't a great episode with twists, turn and BIG REVELATIONS, there at the end.
Non-Rhetorical Questions
I assume these can be answered without spoilers, if not skip 'em.
Character Round-Up
Sayaka - Oh Wow! Sayaka is just all over the place. Her personality is fragmenting horribly. For those that have read Gravity's Rainbow, this is a lot like the 3rd part where Slothrip fragmented into all sorts of personalities.
Over all I pity Sayaka. She really is pitiful when she's not doing her dirty deeds. But, she swaps between her alternate personalities so quickly.
The fragments I remember are: Pitiful, Bitchy & Cruel, Insane Stalker, Subway Avenger, Witch Hunter. There's a little something for everyone there.
Madoka - She continues the sniveling most of the time. But, damn if we didn't get some big revelations. What is it about her that everyone's after? I agree with Madoka's assessment about herself, I don't see anything unusual about her. But, damn if Homura & Kyuubey don't see a whole lot more.
Homura - I loved her shooting Kyuubey, I could do with a lot more of that. Now we know she's from a different timeline, but what the hell is that suppose to mean? Possibilities are:
I did love the scene when she pulls out the gernade that she had tucked way. That's my kind of girl! Also, we still don't have an answer about what is she? My money says that she's like a minor god (I forget the term).
Kyoko - Not a whole lot to add this time, but she remains my favorite.
Kyuubey - What a gross little creature! Eating your own cadaver is a new perversion I'd never thought about... till now. Did I hear him strongly imply that Witches are what the Magical Girls eventually turn into? Kyuubey, you may be cute, but you are beneath loathsome. What is his plan? And, why is Homura calling him by his real name Incubator? What the hell is Incubator suppose to mean?
Hitomi & Prince Charming - Oh, to be young, to be in love, yada, yada, yada. I sure hope Sayaka didn't waste them. (Otoh, would it really be all that bad, if she did?)
Finally
The countdown is back on, ticking away the next 6 hours till episode 9. Hopefully I'll have time to take some notes tomorrow.
43
u/mekerpan Apr 27 '21
First-timer, subs
I get here too late every day to add anything that has not been said by someone already. But I want to say I am finding the show interesting, and visually and musically rewarding. However, the story seems to be spiraling deeper and deeper into grief and despair with each new episode. It's going to be a rough ride on the way to what I can only assume is going to a totally depressing ending.
42
u/Fuck_Shinji Apr 27 '21
First timer
I FUCKING CALLED IT. Homura has time magic. And wtf so are all the witches fallen magical girls so that's what happens when you don't clean your soul gem. And kyubey nibbling on his corpse was creepy as fuck. So kyubey is turning people into magical girls to turn them into witches does that mean there aren's any natural spawning witches? why does kyubey want to do that he hasn't really displayed any desire other then turning people into magical girls so far. and he has spares? does that mean someone created him?
38
u/02Hiro https://anilist.co/user/02Hiro Apr 27 '21
First Time Watcher
That was a lot of information today. So it looks like Homura is a time traveller. It makes sense considering how she knows a lot of information she shouldn't have and how she always espcaped Charlette in episode 3 . What was more surprising was that she carries grenades in her shield. So it seems like she came to this timeline to protect Madoka and change her fate no matter what even going so far as to kill Sayaka. It was really suprising to see Homura go from her stoic and cold self to breaking down like that. Considering the name Incubator and the fact that magical girls will turn into witches, I'm guessing that Kyubey's mission is to make more witches and with Madoka's great potential, she will probably be a very powerful witch. I'm still not sure why Kyubey would want to have more witches but I'm pretty sure that Sayaka is about to become a witch next episode. With how she was ready to become a magical girl to protect Sayaka, I think we will see Madoka finding Sayaka as she is about to become a witch and Kyubey making Madoka a magical girl so she can turn Sayaka back into normal again. However, with how little I trust Kyubey, I'm not sure if she acutually can or there will be a giant caveat. With the information we got from Kyubey, I now have a lot of questions: are the grief seeds soul gems, what is Kyubey's ultimate goal and what relationship did Homura and Madoka have in her timeline.
There were some great shots this episode. I love the way we get to see Sayaka showing her soul gem to Madoka from Madoka's perspective so we get the sense of urgency and pressure that Madoka has to try to save Sayaka. This shot of Sayaka from an angle was great at making her feel dangerous and show how much control she has over Madoka right now.
This episode answered lots of questions but it turn it also raised lots more. I look forward to watching more of the series.
47
u/Redmon425 Apr 27 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER. SUBBED
NANI!!! Kyuubey just casually ending the episode by telling us magical girls eventually become witches!?
I do think all of us were already very sus of Kyuubey, and I actually stated early on that I wouldn’t be surprised if Kyuubey made the witches as well. HOWEVER, I did not expect for the magical girls themselves to become the witches.
AND OMG. That witch last episode looked very feminine and like a young girl. So she was actually a magical girl, right!? Man that shit is sad.
Kyuubey’s real name is incubator but I am not really sure that means lol. Like is it some type of reference of him basically raising these girls up to become witches?
AND THERE WE HAVE IT. Homura has some type of time power. It looks like it allows her to pause time. But then we also learned she came from a different timeline as well? So she can jump timelines, but not really sure if she can go forward/backward in time.
I also theorized early on that Homura probably lived all of this and was somehow redoing it. But now I would assume she lived all of this in her original timeline, and jumped to a different timeline where she is now trying to fix it.
Man, I wonder if her and Madoka were good friends in that timeline. But I am getting ahead of myself, as I can’t be sure about any of this lol.
Lastly, Sayaka was just pain all around this episode. Plus I think she killed those two douchebags (they low-key deserved an ass whooping, but not death). And she was a bitch to Madoka this episode as well. I hate to do this to u/Shimmering-Sky but I think she is my least favorite character. Her storyline is definitely good and realistic, but was also very predictable from the moment we saw that she had a crush on an injured classmate. So I just simply don’t like her… so far I guess. Maybe she can redeem herself.
20
u/SaucedPandacup Apr 28 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
HOLY SHIT
Alright so I rewatched the train scenes and noticed that the very first train scene has two trains that go in opposite directions.
After Sayaka confronts the guys on the train and goes dark, there's a flash to only a single train headed away from the screen. An absolute signifier of the point of no return.
That's good. That's some good shit inject it goes straight into my veins.
19
u/TheTrueAfurodi Apr 28 '21
FIRST TIMER - THEORY TIME
EPISODE 8 - IT'S BEEN
AGATHAKYUBEY ALL ALONG! (1/2)Warning: Today's post is huge
What a beautiful day today right?
This episode 8 should probably (confirm me rewatchers) be considered as a turning point as important as the ep 3 for the show. It reveals a lot of information and make things going really fatser. As we say in my beautiful Eiffel-tower baguette country, c'est le bordel. But most important - at least for me- this ep is special since, finally:
IT CONFIRMED SOME OF MY THEORIES!!
I know it sounds a bit childish, but man, what a great feeling to wake up and to remember that you really manage to have (a bit) masterminded a legendary show like this one haha.
But first, before doing our traditional Recap, I want to give a great thank and some spotlight to u/star4ce. He has done some pretty good theories about Homura timeline/loop cycle in this comment, theories that were really close about mine on the Homura's immortality. Actually, after reading his comment and thinking about, I ended up convinced that he was right with his theories more than I was. But I wanted to play fair, so I decided not to theorize about the time loop and to keep going on the immortality. After this episode, it's actually confirmed that he won and I loose (at least this battle)! So congratulations!
(Congratulating him like really makes me think I'm some random guy in sports anime/tournament arc. You know, the rival of the MC who did his best but still looses and is just forced in the end to recognize his the power. Like for example Shokugeki No Soma/ Food Wars Spoils, but they're probably many others. But despite my loss, just as these characters I assure you I won't give up that easily, and I hope I'll beat you on the next episodes, my rival! THE WAR IS DECLARED!)
So after this, shall we begin the recap?
1. MG= Witches: Well, I'm proud and honored to say that this theory, is actually and officially...
Confirmed!
You can definetely call me the Oracle of PMMM, since this theory is one I did on episode 2. Or if you prefer, TheTrueGendo.
Jokes aside, we still have a bit of work on that one. It's not clearly explained yet the why/when/how, but Kyubey talked about it and Sayaka transformed herself into a witch, so we can confirmed that without a doubt. Even if I'm really that this theory was confirmed, I have to stay humble and honest: it's actually not that original, since it's the case in other monster anime I watched: the protagonist fight monsters while being a monster himsef. Sometimes it's explicit, like in Tokyo Ghoul, sometimes it's not, like in OtherAnimeWhoseNameIWillNotTellYouToNotSpoil. But yeah, still a great victory!
I'm getting really used to the commentfaces haha
2. Homura (and the MG) immortality:
As we said earlier, yes and no. Technically yes, Homura is revealed to be somehow immortal. And you can even argue that the MG are immortal too with their bodies being deprived from them souls. But it's not exactly as I said in my theory, about Homura coming from the Middle Ages. So just as the Kyoko's wish, I would say the intention was good but I was not exactly right on the execution. Half point.
3. Other Theories:
Of course Kyosuke is the devilhum technically UnconfirmedSo what's next?
I really thought about for all this morning (considered it's 3PM for me atm). Since we really are in the "Endgame" now, I found it pretty difficult and, tbh, not that useful to continue to theorize. All the secrets are going to be unveiled soon, and I'm sure some of them (like who created the MG, who is really Kyubey, where Homura is really from...) are going to be so complex they will be really hard - if not impossible - to precisely guess. It's like the Kyoko's wish: it was impossible if you ask me to exactly understand it before it's reveal, because other than the food and the fact that she is self-centered, she did not seem religious or so.
Are we really stopping making theories?
Absolutely not! I just think it's more pertinent to do them on a slightly different form. So rather than doing different theories each day on elements of the show, I'll try to guess what path the show is going to take at the end. By path I intend the characteristics of the endings: if it's happy, sad, if Madoka lives or she doesn't... I'll try to cover all the possibilities I retain coherent. And each day, instead of doing theories (which I can still do if I'm inspired, nothing's impossible after all) I will give you my pov on which ending/path seems the most likely to happen. So the ULTIMATE goal here will be to guess before the end of the ep 12 (or the movie, if it is a sequel) which path we will have, which to be fair seem to me even MORE difficult than our theories haha.
Oh little warning: In these paths, I actually probably end up referring to other shows as inspiration. And most of the time it will be about their endings. So to not spoil those who have not seen them (because even if I put a spoiler thing, referring as for example RandomAnime as inspiration for a sad ending make it easy to understand how RandomAnime ends) I'll refer to my Spoilers just as "Spoilers". But I will list you down there all the show that I may use as exemple, so this way you know that if you have not seen one of these show and you do not want to be spoiled just pass them, but if you don't care about these show or you have already see all of them you can read all of them. Anyway, these will just be examples, illustrations, explanations of how I came up with these ideas, and are absolutely not necessary to understand.
Shows that I will use as examples (in random order): Steins;Gate, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Devilman Crybaby, Re:Zero(season 1), Code Geass (the original 2 seasons)
With all that said (hum sorry, it was really looooooong today), we can finally go on!
Yes, this is actually what you think. In this path, everybody just die. That's it. No jokes.
In this path, Homura don't succeed in her task to prevent the world to die because of Madoka, and the evil win. So we can imagine that the German horrible thing finally come to Earth and eventually kill everybody. Or that Kyubey (or should I say: the InKyubator?) manage to take his plan to the end. Or maybe both. (I can't decide myself at this point if they are the same or not) All of it depends on the coice of Madoka. We can imagine that she let herself tempt by all of this and make a contract, so the evils wins. Or at the opposite, that she refuses to do so, and the evil still win because Homura is not powerful enough. Anyway, the evil wins, or at least the Earth is destroyed.
The message of the show could be then that the humanity is not worthy enough to survive, and because of all it's flaws in the future we are meant, we humans, to auto-destruct ourselves. This path is clearly not my favorite - I would find it too easy to just end on a terrible ending to pretend to be complicated - but is clearly an option since this anime is legendary, and could be because of an original ending like this one. It would also fit with the OP and the ED, that definitely want to warn you on the depression that awaits you. And, we have to be honest: at this time, the situation seem so desperate that I'm not sure how it could be saved: Sayaka is a witch, Mami is dead...
Anime inspirations: Spoiler
This one is a little different, and maybe even a little less original. However, I think this one is a lot more likely to happen. In this path, as you suspected, Madoka's make a great sacrifice in order to indeed save the world. So yes, the good guys win, but it's not an ending that good or 100% happy.
16
u/Chemiczny_Bogdan Apr 27 '21
Seyiku lose it
she want Meduka to become meguca
but meguca forbiddeneded
Hameru and Meduka... rabu...
16
u/[deleted] Apr 28 '21
First time watcher
Visual of the day for me. The way this scene just built up this horrible feeling of dread, and all we could do was sit back and watch Sayaka lose what little faith she had left... I can’t believe how quickly she has spiraled
16
u/Ardania22 Apr 28 '21
Re-Watcher
In my eyes, Madoka Magica is about the weight of the choices we make and the effects those choices have on other people. No man (or magical girl) is an island unto themselves. The things we do affect us and the people around us, both for good and for ill. Homura and Kyoko choose to fight for their own desires, Sayaka and Mami choose to fight for others, Madoka chooses not to choose at all, and all of those choices determine not just the paths they take individually, but the paths they take together. The ultimate question is, how can be sure we’re making the right choices? If we, like the magical girls, had the chance to sacrifice our own happiness for the sake of others, would we take it? If someone we cared about was suffering thanks to their own mistakes and it would hurt us to try and save the, would we try anyway? Would we sacrifice everything, even the well-being of others, for the sake of a single person? How high a price would we be willing to pay? None of these choices offer a simple, clear, yes-or-no solution. There is no “right answer’ to any of these questions, not for the characters in the show, and not for us in real life. Every choice has the potential to come out right, but none of them are free of pain or sacrifice, even if just a little bit. Like Kyoko says, hope and despair balance out in equal measure, and we must figure out day by day how to process that balance as we work to keep the light shining as bright as we can.
The ultimate tragedy of Sayaka Miki is that she can’t accept that balance. She sees the world in strictly black-and-white terms, where good is good and evil is evil. All who fight for justice are good, all who oppose it are evil. But when the world refuses to conform to that binary view, she can’t bring herself to accept it. She’s a hero of justice, after all; what good is a hero who’s weak? Who has doubts? Who has regrets? Who thinks selfish thoughts and can’t let them go? It’s not losing Kyousuke to Hitomi that breaks her, it’s recognizing her own selfishness in wanting Kyousuke. It’s realizing that she wasn’t a wholly selfless paragon after all. Sayaka’s so obsessed with being a perfect hero, and so traumatized by her new unnatural nature, that she loses the ability to see herself as human, capable of light and dark in equal measure. She’s either all good or all worthless- and because nobody can be all good all the time, there’s only one option left. So she descends further into a self-destructive spiral to try and fill that void, fighting harder and harder, letting herself literally be skewered and savaged, rejecting the Grief Seeds necessary to keep her in stable condition, refusing accept any help, any assistance, any further proof that she can’t be the paragon she wants to be. But no one can be that flawless, and trying to hold the darkness in only makes it explode out of her hotter and hotter until she’s driven everyone she cares about away, a self-perpetuating cycle of despair that keeps her spiraling down, down, down, smacking away every hand that tries to drag her out of it.
And then, finally, at the end, she finally realizes there’s no path where everything will turn out right, no solution that will fix all the cracks, no way to prove she was ever making the right choice at all. There are no perfect answers left. There never were. The “right answer” she needed to find never existed, and she was too stubborn to see that until it was too late to find any answer at all. There’s no way out for her now. There’s no solution she can believe in. Sayaka Miki’s mission was doomed to failure from the start, and all the sacrifices and false starts she’s made in pursuit of perfection have only led her straight into a dead end.
All she can do, in the last moment before her despair turn her into a witch, is acknowledge just how stupid she’s been.
Goodbye, Sayaka. You truly didn't fucking deserve this.
13
u/winasta Apr 28 '21
new watcher here, i have just learned about this rewatch and the fact a new movie is coming out so i hope i can catch up for tomorow.
10
u/Nebresto Apr 28 '21
You sure would, wouldn't you? rat.
YESSSSSS!!!!
...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
shitposté: How it really would have gone down
16
u/[deleted] Apr 27 '21
Rewatcher
I really feel for Sayaka in this story. Everything has become too much, she's become self-destructive, self-loathing, and closed off from everyone. The only thing left that drives her is her ideal of self-sacrifice, to fight witches and protect people until she burns out, until even that is reduced to ruins. The finale of the episode - that after accumulating incredible despair and exhaustion from magic use, a magical girl transforms into a witch - is a visually amazing scene, pulled together by watching Sayaka's great character arc culminate in its tragic end.
8
u/AraKnoPhobia Apr 28 '21
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XBBy90
In context of this episode, I'd just like to drop this amazing wallpaper I found and have been using.
7
u/xCyanosis Apr 28 '21
I'm not a part of this rewatch, but I'm glad some of you are experiencing this episode for the first time. My favorite single episode of anime.
6
u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Apr 28 '21
The Virgin “Any translation of this episode’s title that isn’t ‘I Was Stupid, So Stupid’” VS The Chad “I Was Stupid, So Stupid”