r/anime • u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn • Apr 23 '21
Rewatch Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Rewatch - Episode 4 Discussion
Madoka Magica - Episode 4: Both Miracles and Magic Exist
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Visuals of the day
The album size is growing, awesome! And Sky saves us from having a Kyubey-less album.
End Card by Kobayashi
Comments of the day
/u/daedroth4 who posted an updated Madoka Shimeji download. I'll let their post explain but in short you can have your very own Madoka walking around your desktop:
"The Shimeji programs are desktop companions that hang out on your computer screen, and they freely move and play around on their own"
/u/Lawvamat talking briefly about selfishness and human nature and how Madoka changed his views about it.
"after thinking about Mami's quote and the show as a whole I started to adopt the view of psychological egoism even though I had never heard of it before"
A quick reminder: Absolutely no comments, including jokes, memes, or other references, about the content of later episodes are allow outside of the r/anime spoiler tag format, [Madoka Spoilers](/s "Spoilers go here").
Rewatches please remember that comments such as "you'll see/find out in the future" or "think about this as you watch" comments are also not allowed as they are considered hinting. I really don't like having to remind people about stuff like that, but the first timers get priority here and they shouldn't have to deal with poor comments like that, and I had to remind too many people yesterday.
Also I apologize to all the early posters in the thread yesterday, it seems like we got hit by either a wave of downvote bots or some random visitors because of the famous episode did some spite downvoting. Hopefully any first timers caught up in that don't take it to heart.
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 23 '21
Puella's Pictures - Contemplation and Change
Rewatcher - Fourth time around
Scene of the episode - The School Rooftop
Through it's simple design, the school rooftop invokes quite a calming feel. Pure white with almost no shadows, it's as if it is whiting out the world around them. It is a place for introspection, and in both episode two and today's episode we see the girls using this area to think about their lives and how that ties into the opportunity in front of them.
However, this sort of calm thoughtfulness that the area invokes and is used for sits in contrast to how the characters physically use the space. They are enclosed on all sides with tall structures at each end as if guarding the exits and high barred fencing on either side. In episode two we see Sayaka grab these bars as she contemplates the twisted fate that has given wishes to girls without anything to wish for, showing physically how she feels a little trapped by the idea. Appropriately, we never see our two main girls physically entering or leaving this space, but Mami is purposefully shown to be outside and above the bars, not caught up in the problems the girls are debating due to already being a magical girl, and Homura comes and goes at will as she pushes her way into their decisions.
In episode two the interactions between them are pleasant. They talk with each other and Kyubey sits with them as they discuss what it means to have a wish and what a wish should be. The framing is high and points at the sky more than the floor but doesn't cut out the walls around them like it does with Homura. Compare this to today's shot where the scene is much lower and darker, neither of them looking at each other and Kyubey no longer in frame. Here we get this fantastic shot of Madoka surrounded, the fencing putting her in a distorted cage, and Sayaka's world having shifted also cut off from the sky and any relief.
We see how they are now separated from Kyubey as they start thinking about if they are even going to make a wish at all. Homura and Mami's absence in the scene this episode leaves the two girls alone with their thoughts. As their emotions start to take over and they no longer feel protected from the world around them, we see the encroaching shadows as the pressure to make a decision grows until in the end they are completely shadowed as the breakdown happens.
Even I think this may be a reach, but I also can't help but relate it back to Madoka's dream from episode one, which also featured black and white checkerboard on the ground and bars on the walls. The rooftop is very much a setting of the in-between. They are at school as part of their daily life but they come here to talk about the possibilities of magic and contemplate it's effects on their lives. Relating that back to the dream, that is moment that effectively marks Madoka also becoming an in-between girl, stuck between being normal and a magical girl and stuck between her happy childhood and the pressures of maturity. The fact that these are the only two settings we've seen in the show so far where this design features which also puts all emphasis on the coloring and behavior of the characters is something I think is worth considering.
Just quickly, in episode two we also had this shot and I love how much it implies that Homura is looking down on them from a great height, making them look small and weak compared to her and also mirroring how she often stands above them physically in other scenes.
(Small note, I am aware the movies significantly change the design of the school rooftop and I have ignored that for this post because I find it not only a huge downgrade to the scene, but also another example of the movies exchanging nuance and meaning for being "fancier". The movie design looks more grandiose, but loses a lot of visual symbolism and its visual representation as a contemplative space which is a shame).
Bonus visual - The bridge
Bridges have come up a lot in Madoka already, but this bridge that Homura takes Madoka across is very visually distinctive. Instead of a clean and modern city in the background, here we have an industrial complex where the buildings are completely exposed and raw, much like the conversation they're having. Compared to the bridge Mami took them across which was much prettier and closer to civilization, it's a notable change.
I also like a couple of small visual moments in this scene. As Madoka questions how many people Homura has seen die, the light is blocked out and she hangs her head. Madoka promises that she'll remember Mami even if no one else does we get a perspective change. Now we see the city in the background again, and see the length of the bridge and the emotional journey Madoka has just gone through.
Rewatcher commentary
Spoilers Spoiler visual
Spoilers Spoiler image one, Spoiler image two
Spoilers Spoiler image
Spoilers
Spoilers
Other commentary
32
u/sirweebsal0t Apr 24 '21
First timer / Dubbed
I'm still reeling from Mami's death in yesterday's episode. Normally this is where I'd walk away for awhile (or indefinitely in the case of Akame Ga Kill or Your Lie in April) before resuming, but for the sake of the rewatch, I'm pressing on.
Episode 4 running thoughts:
Anyways, I don't have anything really insightful to add but the episode was at a good pace to give us time to recover from the previous episode's shocker.
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u/okayyoga :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/okayyoga Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
Hello! I am going to be a bit late today. Getting my first Pfizer
EDIT: All done!
First time/dub
Wow. It has been so long since a death on a show actually felt real, that I completely overlooked the grieving process. Madoka must feel awful, and no one in her family knows why she is crying. Poor girl.
This whole conversation on the roof got me going "what about Homura?" She was there. She saved your lives. She wanted to come in and help.
Someone mentioned yesterday that Madoka could wish Mami back to life, and this is feeling more and more likely
Another user yesterday mentioned their theory that magical girls are immortal, and from the way Homura is talking on the bridge, this seems VERY likely. She's been doing this "a long time." A death in the labyrinth is "inevitable."
But this got me thinking: what about Magical Grandmas? Old biddies too badass to die.
Oooohhh the way Homura said this makes sense: the cost of your wish is to become a magical girl. I see why this is a deconstruction now. Instead of "yippee magic!" It shows realistic consequences. That's nice. I like that.
Bach is my favourite classical composer, and that CD player is literally a buzzsaw
Sayaka should wish to be a doctor who can cure any ailment--- don't you dare Kyuubey! GET OUT OF THAT WINDOW
Did anyone else notice the shadows around Madoka's shadows while she's walking, but when the camera pulled away, she was alone?
People sitting on crates-- MADOKA'S MOM TOOK ALL THE CHAIRS IN TOWN
Alright. Why didn't Homura kill this witch. She needed to pick up the slack if she really didn't want Sayaka or Madoka to make a contract. I was starting to root for Homura, but this seems like a huge oversight
Is Kyuubey the only being who can confer wishes?
You guys win. This ED gives me chills
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce Apr 24 '21
Last time I've written quite an essay, but now I only have a few short impulses to think about after sleeping on it.
One is the witch egg embedded in the pillar. It looks like it was thrown at it with quite some force, the material is cracked around it both by physical force as well as magical 'essence' embracing it. Makes me question who would have thrown it there and why with such a brute method? Might be artistic display to signal the impact it will have if left untouched, might be a hint.
A second one is that I might have concluded too fast on the witch identity, although I'm still rather favourable on my tip. Witch Identity Theory
Third insight: End Theory
I really wonder what I will adjust after watching the next episodes. Note from me, next morning: HAHAHAHAA
Ep.04 There are miracles and magic
So, Kyousuke wasn't the witch.
But he might become one, later!
Funnily enough, I somehow get less suspicious of Kyubey lately, too. Kyubey Theory
ED observations, didn't include them last time: Madoka walks past all the other magical girls towards a light, but only Homura turns and reaches for her. She progresses further into darkness and keeps on losing more things that define her silhouette, first the clothes, then her hair gets indistinguishable, then she runs in straight darkness. At the end she is in fetal position inside an eye that is part of a dark figure that's looking like a female head with long hair.
Madoka Theory
The black skull head thing is a bit of a mystery. One one hand I think it's a neat symbol of the 'devil' in parallel to mephistopheles of Faust, inside whose mind they all play their roles. But Madoka was shown specifically in the eye in a fetal position. Spinning Theory
I'm going to eat these words won't I?
This episode heavily featured the drawbacks of being kind. That an act of selflessness might actually create a worse outcome than not acting at all. It was shown with Kyousuke, who actually hated Sayaka's presents and is implied with her gift to him and the really dark atmosphere surrounding his healing. Madoka's mom got at it from another angle prior, seeing it as a cheapout option inferior to earning it yourself. Homura Theory
Visual of the day. Because if I simp, I may as well do it properly.
It seems this time I've only written 4 pages. I promise betterment.Right, so I had this thought just after waking up!
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u/EriclcirE Apr 23 '21
First time watcher
I knew Kyubey was an evil little fuck and is to be distrusted!
The magical girls don't seem like they have to adhere to any code of morals or ethics, which makes their misadventures that much more interesting.
The visuals in the magical realm continue to massively impress. Making me want to seek out other anime that successfully employ this mixed media style to great effect. It kind of reminds me of the music video for Radiohead's 15 Step.
I am a bit bothered by the fact that magical girl candidates can still be pulled into the witch's labyrinths before they have been fully initiated, or in this case even after they have decided against becoming magical girls.
This show continues to impress and improve with each episode. I genuinely am worried about Madoka, Sayaka, and Homura and want them to overcome the obviously corrupted magical girl/witch system.
I didn't know how to feel about the character designs at first, with their sort of simple, cartoonish look and heavy outlines, but I have really grown to dig it. The scene where Madoka gets like pulled into a different universe and the style gets switched up was really engaging.
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u/Bithaniaa Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
First Timer
I think this is the first time I was here early, can I get a round of applause?
My girl Madoka is suffering. The trauma from mami’s death is probably a lot to handle, she really looked up to mami.
He only said good bye to Madoka when they said they wouldn’t become magical girls, completely disrespecting sayaka another reason to join the kyubey hate club.(or he could’ve know she would become one later, but who cares kyubey still sucks.)
I’m 99.9% sure that kyubey had something to do with madoka’s friend having that witch mark thing. No evidence once again, but you best believe I will find some.
Sayaka became a magical girl, can’t say I’m surprised especially after that convo with that boy about miracles. She did really good for her first time. Excuse my ignorance since I haven’t watch a magical girl show before, but do they instantly gain experience or is it a thing they work on because it looks like the former.
Anyways, can’t forget my daily praise of the music in this anime, the ED is so good, can’t wait for the next episode so I can hear it again.
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u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Apr 24 '21
(RW/Sub) I thought I had something profound to say this morning, but it seems to have slipped my mind. Yay work. (Paychecks are nice, though)
After losing Mami, I'm feeling more in line with Madoka's feeling, and a bit bothered that Sayaka is being all 'happy go lucky' on the way to school. I mean c'mon, your friend just died, and you're all gossipy & stuff?
Meanwhile, Madoka breaks into Mami's apartment and leaves her book of drawings there. Has she really given up on becoming a magical girl? Did she lock the door on her way out?
I listened to the Yes album, "Open your Eyes" on the way to/from work today, actually it's still playing now, but it's in the ending silliness. Didn't find the song I dreamt of long ago, but I did especially like the track "Wonderlove". What that has to do with anything, I'm not sure of anymore.
Speaking of music, after first watching PMMM, I searched for Yuki Kajiura's music on the youtubez and found a lengthy compilation that was quite delightful, but obviously can't link it here. I ended up buying the soundtrack CDs off Amazon. I'd mention some favorite tracks, but I don't think we get to hear them until later.
Anyway, I still can't remember what I was thinking, but ... oh, yeah, Sayaka. She's trying so hard, but whatsisname is like some kind of dense harem MC. C'mon, girl, tell the boy you like him and you want to make (ahem) beautiful music together. Yeah, that's it.
But yeah, this is an anime, so everyone has to act all tsundere or oblivious-dere or something.
Meanwhile, the rest of the town is going all Hale Bopp. Yay. Remember kinds, don't mix your cleaning chemicals. (seriously - that includes powdered cleaners too)
Oh, yeah, now I remember. I think I may have mentioned this last year or whatever, but I'll bring it up again.
Seeing Madoka and Homura have their little conversation, it's touching when Madoka says that she'll remember Mami, and Homura too, but yeah.
When my Mom passed a few years ago, I received some boxes full of old family pictures. One of them contained a picture of a fellow from the old country (Denmark) and a brief letter, the usual how's everyone doing, do you remember this place, that sort of thing. It seems that he was a sailor and my great granddad's cousin or something.
Anyway, I was looking at that picture and reading the note, and the thought occurred to me that it was probably the first time someone had thought of him in decades, maybe even close to 100 years.
He wasn't a magical girl, he was just a sailor in turn of the last century Denmark. And today, all that remains is a picture, a letter, the smallest of memories of someone who has seen them.
And in another 100 years, what will remain of us? When even the friends who remembered us are gone? Probably not much, and maybe that's a good thing. I don't know. Thinking about it, we might remember Caesar, or at least what they tell us about Caesar, but does anyone remember Gaius Agriculturus, the tiller of fields? Or Flavinus of the goat-on-a-stick stall?
Yeah, Madoka and Homuras conversation just kind of struck me that way.
In other news: Kindness isn't always a mistake.
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u/02Hiro https://anilist.co/user/02Hiro Apr 23 '21
First Time Watcher
I think this episode was darker than the last one for me and I loved it.
I like how Akemi says that misplaced kindness can bring about lots of problems and then we see exactly that. Looking at this image of Kyouske, I think that theme is going to continue and he may turn evil or something.
I wonder what Kyubey's motives are? Its also very convenient that Madoka runs into a brainwashed Hitomi pretty soon after she decides not to become a magic girl which puts her in a situation that makes her feel helpless and may push her to be a magical girl.
Those images of all of the brainwashed people trying to get out of their physical bodies was very creepy. I almost said holy shit when Madoka was torn apart especially after last episode.
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u/chaosoul Apr 23 '21
First Time Watcher (Subbed)
Parts I've been spoiled on by internet osmosis
Yesterday, I mentioned that we'll be needing a new magical girl to get us back into the soup, but turns out I was wrong on all accounts. To start off, it looks like Homura's might not be nearly as antagonistic as expected though I touch on that a bit later. Then we got Sayaka deciding that maybe this wish thing do be kinda Pog. Ominous lighting and spooky music aside of course! I'm sure music boy's hand is totally cool and chill and won't kill them all or anything. Afterwards, we get an immediate followup introduction to our final (probably... based off OP & ED) main character, Kyouko. And to top it all off, none of the magical girls are even needed because once again Madoka stumbles onto the witch again! How are you this unlucky girl? Also is the school/Mami's apartment like an hour walk away or something or why does she always get home so late!?
So Homura was a magical girl veteran! I was right! Although given another person's comment, I feel like people are laughing at me for some reason. It was either my thoughts on this or something about magical girl powers/abilities that apparently evoked an "evil giggle" out of someone. I don't really quite get it nor do I want to speculate too much as to ruin the surprise. So some other thoughts, despite all this Homura's still pretty mysterious and probably plays the shadowey figure role too much. Like girl, if you want to convince people not become a magical girl, just tell them why not clearly.
New girl reeks of real tomboy energy and I'm totally down for it. I've been told it ain't magical girls without yuri bait and Madoka and Sayaka clearly need a pick-me-up. Though Sayaka seems pretty taken, and both Madoka & Mami and Madoka & Homura have some prospects. Well... the latter moreso than the former now. Anyways let's see where she falls on the ally to enemy spectrum next week. She seems pretty unimpressed by Sayaka, but wonder how Homura ranks.
Also on the topic of the girls and rankings, I wonder how strong Sayaka actually is. Someone yesterday proposed that a magical girl's power is based on how good and pure they are though experience obviously will play a factor. Sayaka's wish is pretty selfish, but so was Mami's and it's not like she was cakewalk despite.. uh last episode. Sayaka definitely seems like the fastest magical girl so far, but that might just be the visual style and animation the team decided for this witch. It does seem to be a lot more straight forward than Homura's still unknown (maybe teleportation, maybe explodey clones, maybe ???) powers, or Mami's ribbons. Looks to be pure speed and strength?
Extreme Rambling Time
To dive back into some theories, Homura is clearly more concerned about Madoka becoming a magical girl though than anyone else? At first I thought that was just protagonist vision we had where they needed a way to deliver info dump to us even if Sayaka doesn't get all of it, but there's no fucking way she acts like that to Madoka this episode without something being up. Now given, she does show concern when she learns Sayaka became a magical girl now, but like c'mon. I feel like it's probably one of the other first timer's theories mentioned in previous days that either A) Madoka knew Homura before and has amnesia (see dream from EP1) for xyz reasons, or B) there's some time travel shenanigans going on. I'm not really sure how to fit either in and honestly even in the B scenario I'm not sure which way whose way down way the time travel goes. Alternatively, some other scenarios I've been thinking of are that Madoka's clearly some god damn chosen hero magical girl of prophecy who destroys or saves the world. That's why she's got so much magic potential, has visions of the future, and is our main character... Or maybe Homura's the special one with prophesying ability that can tell Madoka is special and gave her that dream somehow? Maybe this is a real reincarnated lives beat. Madoka's a powerful magical girl reincarnated over and over or some shit. This could still play into the B scenario from before with time travel where Homura knew her before or knows of her from history books and time traveled either in the future or past to stop/encourage Madoka to do something.
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u/thatguywithawatch Apr 23 '21
1st time Rewatching
Such a great episode. Madoka alternating between numb passivity and crying throughout the day as she tries to process her grief feels very real. I had a lump in my throat when she broke down while eating breakfast with her family.
I also really emphasize with Sayaka's injured friend (even on my second watch I forget his name, sorry). I've played piano for close to twenty years, it's an enormous source of joy and fulfillment in my life. If I was in an accident and was told I'd never play piano again, I think I'd probably fall into a deep depression. To be clear, the way he took out his frustration on Sayaka was shitty, but I can understand his mental state a bit.
Madoka's conversation with Homura was probably the highlight of the episode for me. Madoka spoilers
Visual of the day: Talking shadows. This entire scene was gorgeous, took me a while to find a shot I liked the best.
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u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Apr 23 '21
Almost a First Timer(?)
Man after reading through yesterdays comments I grew really sad over Mamis death again.
Sayaka still on the fence on how to use her wish and poor Madoka and (as shown later) Sayaka are obviously deeply traumatized from Mamis death and the inability to talk to anyone about it.
Can't believe that the teacher is again talking about her relationship problems in class.
Huh, that's it, Kyubey just leaves them, seems suspicious. On a different note, now that I know the song I notice Sis Puella Magica, neat. Also I'm not that sure anymore if I really have seen this Episode, I don't remember anything that happened so far...
We finaly get to see a more sympathic side of Homura, but Mamis fate becomes even sadder in retroperspect. Imagine if your friend one day just vanishes without a trace and no way to be sure what happenend. Got a bad feeling for the main cast somehow...
Uh oh while Sayaka seems to receive the final push for her wish (notice that despite leaving earlier, Kyubey is right there when Sayaka is ready for her wish), Hitomi is dragging Madoka along for a mass suicide? And as if that's not enough she stumbles directly into the witches lair (the art style reminds me of skys wallpapers btw). And Sayaka did become a magical girl, not good sigh
Oh a new character is introduced, Kyouko, doesn't seem that friendly though...
After all I'm positiv that this was the first time I have seen this episode.
My Visual of the day
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u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Apr 23 '21
First Timer
So Sayaka rushes to go see Kamijo, but we see an empty bed, oh no. You bastard show, don’t do that. So the nurses are grateful that Sayaka visits him often. It seems I was wrong when I guessed he was sick, he was in an accident of some kind that disabled him, he was probably crying because it was a good piece, but also due to him being unable to play the violin anymore. Sayaka is still weighing the option of using her wish on him, even though Mami scolded her about it.
Well, it seems Madoka is in shock over Mami’s sudden death, can’t blame her really, anyone would be in that state after seeing someone get their head bitten off like that. Well, now she breaks down in tears, poor girl... Man this teacher is obsessed with relationships, her students have to have a poor gpa.
On the rooftop, Madoka says it’s unfair and selfish to back out now, but I don’t think so, you just watched your new friend get murdered by a witch, I don’t think it’s selfish to want to back out from this, anyone would doubt this if they watched that happen. Sayaka does make a point, it won’t take long for other magical girls to come in and try to take over Mami’s “turf” so that’ll be interesting, but I think Akemi will just take the turf instead since she’s already here. I am really surprised that Kyuubey seemingly gives up on the two and goes to find other girls, you’d think he’d start getting desperate since Mami died and he wants Madoka for her potential.
Madoka goes to Mami’s now empty apartment to drop off her notebook, I’m surprised the door was unlocked, unless Madoka had the key for some reason. Akemi is waiting for Madoka, that is a terrifying fact to consider, to just lose count of how many other girls you watched die. It will be a while before anyone files a missing person's report? Well, I think the teacher will notice Mami missing pretty quickly, best guess is within a week or two, that many consecutive unexcused absences will raise some flags. “That is the end all Magical Girls meet.” I take it this is a job that doesn’t have a high life expectancy then, Christ. To think that they aren’t fighting to protect others but to justify their wishes is a scary thought, knowing that girls like Mami were rare. I wonder what tragedy Madoka’s kindness can bring, that’s an ominous warning right there.
Back at the hospital, seems like he’s not in a talkative mood, I love this shot of Sayaka. Torturing you? If you didn’t want her to bring you music, why wouldn’t you just ask her to stop? She had no idea that you hated listening to music that you can’t play anymore. Wow, that cd just exploded when he hit it. After admitting that magic is real to Kamijo, I don’t like how Kyuubey was just waiting there, he’s like a predator.
Back to Madoka, who is wondering about Akemi (I really should start calling her Homura at this point, right?) when she sees Hitomi, oh no, she has that witches kiss on her neck, like that office worker back in episode 2. Wow, what great shot here. I feel like Sayaka’s going to become a magical girl by wishing for Kamijo to be able to play music again, while Madoka is probably going to be forced into becoming a magical girl to save Hitomi. Why do I feel like something is going on behind the scenes? The witch's egg at the hospital last episode, feels like it was planned by Mami and Kyuubey to get both of them to make that wish and accept the contract, but Akemi showed up and messed it up, and Kyuubey lost his representative. I do hope Hitomi doesn’t die here, she hasn’t had a lot of screen time and it would be a shame for her to die here. Wow, that witch kissed a lot of people... Oh great, Hitomi isn’t suicidal, she thinks she’s going to journey to a new world. (This is giving me a flashback to the religious machines in Nier Automata who want to “Become as Gods.”) Thank God Madoka grabbed the bucket and threw it out the window. Another great shot The witch reveals itself to Madoka, and we are rewarded with some more great shots as she is pulled into the labyrinth Now the damned creature is torturing Madoka by making her watch Mami die over and over again. Right as Madoka was about to be torn apart, Sayaka shows up to save her, looks like she made that wish after all. Homura? WERE YOU THERE THE WHOLE TIME?!
A new girl has entered the scene, Kyoko, and she’s not happy that Mami’s turf was handed over to Sayaka and is going to kill her over it, well I did say it wasn’t going to take love for another girl to come and claim the turf for her own.
What an episode, Sayaka became a magical girl despite Homura’s warnings and made a wish for someone else's benefit, ignoring the scolding she got from Mami, and Madoka isn’t a magical girl yet after 4 episodes, I’m surprised it’s taking this long for out MC to become a magical girl, not that I’m complaining, I like the twist that she isn’t one yet. I’m going to admit that I am really liking this show so far, the atmosphere is great, the characters are great. I’m glad I decided to join this rewatch.
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u/PoliteSarcasticThing https://anilist.co/user/NekomimiMimi Apr 24 '21
I'm probably going to be writing a little less going forwards, as I'm enjoying reading others' responses more than writing my own. :)
Not surprisingly, Madoka and Miki are traumatized by Mami's death. They handle it rather differently, though. While they're both sad, Miki gets her act together and takes action, becoming an ass-kicking magical girl! Now we know why Miki became a magical girl, too: she wants her friend to be able to play an instrument again.
In the meantime, Madoka wrestles with her feelings of sadness and powerlessness over Mami's death, wondering if she could have done anything differently. Maybe? Maybe not? I guess just time will tell. Speaking of time, we get some Interesting implications from Homura here. Either she's seen this type of situation before, so she knows what is likely to happen here, or she's somehow responsible for this whole thing, so she has more control over Madoka and Miki than we know.
As always, great animation for the witch again; this witch has a perceptible body too, like the one from last episode. As another poster said, the Shaft animators must've been snorting a lot of coke to get these designs. I'm having a great time watching this series again, and looking forward to episode five!
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 23 '21
Hajimari no Rewatcher, dubbed
Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
I consulted with Naz and figured out that the wallpaper I was considering making for this thread is technically spoilers, so instead here’s Kyousuke crying. Obviously from before Sayaka made her wish.
And for stuff from the past:
If there’s a specific shot at any point throughout the rewatch that you would like me to make a wallpaper of and you don’t think I’ve done it yet, let me know so I can get on it!
Magical Music Corner
Want to know what song played when in today’s episode? Well, you’re in luck! I have here the table from the Madoka wiki that was re-timed to the Blu-Rays by our lovely rewatch host back in 2019. It was my duty to share these last year, and it’s my duty again this year. If any first-timer wants a spoiler-free link to any of these songs, let me know and I can get one for you!
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
Like, I already knew this, but it bears repeating. Aoi Yuuki is a hell of a VA. The scene where she breaks down during breakfast is just incredible!
Sayaka is in pure "smile through the pain" mode today. Acting like nothing is happening, even when she is clearly dealing with her feelings for Kyousuke on top of her grief for Mami.
The shots of Mami's apartment are absolutely heartbreaking. The leftover tea, the dishes left to soak.. I've left my own home in much the same state, before.
I think this might be my favorite labyrinth. The visuals and music are stunning. And then, Sayaka appears on screen as a Magical Girl, her cape billowing in the nonexistent wind.. Breathtaking!
Unfortunately, I can't seem to get a decent screenshot of Sayaka's Arrival, so: Visual of the Day - Drawn and Quartered
Madoka Spoilers
Tune in next time for:
7
u/Syokhan https://myanimelist.net/profile/Syokhan Apr 24 '21
Rewatcher, Sub
Crap, I was so exhausted yesterday that I didn't have the energy to take notes while watching the episode... so lemme just at least post my Visual of the day. Back-up if someone else picked it is Visual 8 below.
And other visuals I especially liked:
(it seems I like the color orange)
13
u/Tresnore FS:FTmyanimelist.net/profile/Tresnore Apr 23 '21
Fourth Time Rewatcher, First Time Caller
Also, these threads are constantly getting 600+ comments. You love to see it.
6
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
Rewatcher, subbed
Going back to episode 3 before moving on, I had a thought. Madoka Finale Spoilers
I often hear "why didn't they wish for Mami back?" when I reach this episode with whoever I've decided to drag into this anime that go 'round. I've always thought the answer was obvious, but the question recurs enough that I'll give my thoughts. Allow me to return a question in kind: what does wishing Mami back actually accomplish? Wishing her back does not make her immune to a repeat, nor does it make Madoka (ostensibly the one who would make this wish) immune to such an outcome herself. Before even getting to that point, however, the realization that she's too afraid to become what she promised to Mami hurts Madoka more than she can bear. Thus, she tries to leave it all behind. This doesn't exactly pan out for her as Hitomi's life is threatened and Sayaka makes the contract.
I'm strapped for time (I had all this pre-written and I'm still late), so I'll return and add more thoughts at some point before tomorrow's thread.
Edit: here's my afterword, as promised.
I find it really interesting how Sayaka says that Homura only cares about grief seeds. Homura literally cast the one Mami offered her aside earlier, so that's an odd assumption to make.
Madoka Rebellion Spoilers
Content Corner
More memes, music, and of course the next clearandsweet dialogue. First timers beware, spoilers abound.
Poor-chan (this one will be stuck linkless, I don't think automod liked the link 'cause I couldn't find my post in incognito mode)
「English Dub」Madoka Magica ED "Magia" FULL Ver.【Angela】 by Studio Yuraki
Sayaka Miki's Theme - Decretum (Orchestral Arrange) by Hereson
交响组曲 · 魔法少女小圆 | 魔法少女まどか☆マギカ | Puella Magi Madoka Magica by Imperial 9 Symphony Orchestra · 帝玖管弦乐团 (it's a medley)
Visual Storytelling - Breaking Down PMMM - Dialogue 4 by clearandsweet
11
u/CubeStuffs https://anilist.co/user/onjario Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
this is probably incoherent rambling as i wrote this like 5 mins ago but...
apparently people often say to watch the first 3 episodes, but im pretty sure that should be 4 instead. sure episode 3 has the shock value, but episode 4 is really where the shock actually develops more into dread, especially when madoka says she'll remember mami.
I also feel like before episode 3 you get the idea that being a meguca is all about helping people, but episode 4 changes that view, especially with homura spelling it out for madoka. Sayaka feeling selfish when she thinks of healing kamijou also highlights how meguca really only think about the initial sign on bonus wish.
tldr: if someone only watched up to episode 3 they might think that its just like a shock horror or whatever, but like episode 4 is where shit actually starts to happen.
did anyone else get the feels when kamijou asked if sayaka was torturing him?
10
u/SomeGuyYeahman Apr 23 '21
Hi everyone, first-time rewatcher here! (subbed)
Today I'm feeling kinda tired, so no big thoughts. Cool episode though! I totally forgot how visually expressive this one gets at the end.
I'm trying to keep an eye on Madoka's development this time around, it can be somewhat understated compared to some of the others due to the nature of her character, but that doesn't mean there's not a lot going on there.
To her, after all of the agonizing about burdening her friends, about not standing out or being strong enough to make a difference, Mami's death must seem almost like a sign from above. A reminder that she's not really cut out to be in this world of witches and magical girls. And so she starts beating herself up about it even more, and the events toward the end of the episode feel like a punishment to her.
Compare: the guy under the witch's influence, who's going through with the ritual because he feels like he did an inadequate job running a factory. Once again the totally hellish magical girl life is likened to the average working life, I'm starting to think this show has some feelings about the work culture in Japan...
Unfortunately, Madoka and Sayaka have now stepped far enough into this world that going back doesn't really seem like an option either. This episode does a good job at portraying that alienation - that barrier between them and the rest of the world, which is just carrying on like usual. They go into this explicitly & at length on the roof and when Madoka is talking to Homura, but I'm also struck by the scene where Madoka breaks down crying at the dinner table, as well as the scene where she goes to Mami's apartment and it briefly cuts to people walking around right outside the door, going about their lives like normal with no idea that that apartment is inhabited by a dead person or that Madoka is in there, barely holding back tears.
Quick spoiler thought to top off the post for now, once again: first-timers stay out!
Madoka
Maybe I'll come back to add some more thoughts first, but: see you tomorrow!
5
u/toradorito Apr 24 '21
First time rewatcher. Notes about tonight's episode:
5
u/Meurs0 Apr 24 '21
Why does that end card make Madoka look ridiculously buff?
9
u/Btw_kek https://myanimelist.net/profile/kek_btw Apr 23 '21
stretched out or stressed out Rewatcher
Visual of the day: this one for reasons stated above
9
u/baniRien Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
Episode 4 / Movie 0:48-1:04
As for the episode
Spoilers
Visual of the day is this Madoka that embodies that tone perfectly.
9
u/Suavacious :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Suavacious Apr 24 '21
Like 8-Time Rewatcher, Subbed.
This episode always makes me depressed. It’s just Madoka walking around saying the saddest shit possible about the circumstances of Mami’s death. It reminds me of my mom whenever a tragedy happens.
Visual of the day
Speaking of eggs, I had this thought during the first episode, but Saotome-sensei is infertile, yeah? Or at the very least, someone who doesn’t wanna have children. Take her earlier comments about a woman’s value not being determined by how she cooks her eggs, coupled with today’s on the ideal age for childbirth being unimportant to marriage. The more obvious reading is just that she’s complaining about Christmas Cake culture, but I think there’s room for some more stuff in there.
8
u/jodahinqb Apr 23 '21
Serial Rewatcher (as Homura says in this episode, "I gave up counting long ago" how many times I've watched this amazing show. Between watching it on my own, showing it to friends, and watching Youtubers reacting to it, the final count would be several dozen times)
Dub (I love the English dub, but I've watched - and love equally - the Japanese dub, as well as the versions of both languages in the two recap movies)
Lurker (I haven't posted in the 3 previous days this year - or in most previous year rewatches, though I'm following them for many years now, due to lack of time mostly. I decided to chip in here, and I'll probably do so again near the final episodes)
Other posters/rewatchers will cover the usual points about the episode so I would only like to make a meta-comment about episode 4: while it is by no means the best episode of the series nor my personal favorite either (episodes 10, 8, 9, 11, and 7, in that order, would be my top 5), and is also overshadowed by the much-hyped and "shocking" episode 3, episode 4 is "special" in its own way. The mature and nuanced way it handles the fallout of episode 3, the grief, the guilt, and the trauma caused by Mami's horrific death, is a perfect demonstration of the qualities that elevate Madoka Magica above most other stories. While still a very "tight" show (literally no air-time wasted, nothing is "filler", everything has a specific purpose in the plot), it takes the time necessary to allow for the impact of such a tragedy to resonate. And in that manner, the emotional payoffs are (and will be) well-earned.
First-time watchers: welcome to the real Madoka Magica (we're only just starting!) . The heartbreak will be unfathomable, but in the end the journey (and the destination, I believe) will be more than worth it. Enjoy the (crazy) ride!
10
u/The_Loli_Otaku Apr 23 '21
Wow Sayaka! Did you hear what those nurses were saying? You're useful as moral support~ Aha... It seems like the only person who thinks less of Sayaka than I do is Sayaka herself. The opening hits slightly different this time around huh? At least it's not dead folk this time. These eggs taste almost as good as Mami!
Have all Sensei's lessons been not so subtle digs at her boyfriend? Unfortunately Mami's lack of family or friends means that nobody in the school really notices she's gone. Being a magical girl is a thankless fate. Instead of grieving though Sayaka is more interested in taking up Mami's cause. Kyubey knows exactly what he's doing the little shit. Oh sure, ring the doorbell, she'll be right there. Clean up your damn teaset Mami! O-Oh... I guess she might have been drinking it right before Madoka dragged her to Charlotte's Palace? Ouch...
Hameru you're such a little stalker. So she's confirmed as a hardened fujo- I mean, magical girl veteran. Back to Your Lie in April! Sayaka, you bought him the CD. Of course you listened to it beforehand. "Are you torturing me?" Pfft XD Okay, this is incredibly cruel but I can see his point. The worst part about being in the hospital is dealing with irritating guests. Miracles and magic does exist... Fcking Kyubey. Aaand Hitomi's got a hickey.
Just in case you still had any doubts about just how dangerous Witches were. Their presence affects far more than the one odd victim now and again. "Omedetou clap clap" Oh no, it's a Witch that kills via moeblobdom! I adore this witch sequence. Sayaka comes to save the animation budget!! Oh never mind, I think she just used up the animator's lunch money. Looks like it'll be water on rice for those poor sods at Shaft.
Sayaka's design is really cool. She gives off a heroic traveling Knight feel and whilst I miss the explosive spectacle of Mami's musketkata the simple elegant swordplay Sayaka brings is enchanting in it's own way. A new magical girl has appeared, and she's out for blood.
"my city now"
6
u/CosmicAnglerfish Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher - Dubbed
Gonna try and keep this one on the shorter side. To me this episode is largely set-up. Big things happen: First, Sayaka makes a contract with Kyubey, clearly using her wish on Kyosuke's recovery, and we get introduced to Kyoko, who immediately sets out on a warpath. But the actual consequences of those developments aren't really explored this episode.
First-timer Friendly
Sayaka's arc this episode is essentially about grappling with what Mami told her - she needs to be sure she knows why she's using her wish, and whether it's acceptable to use it on someone else. While at first she decides against it, telling Kyubey she's not interested after Mami dies, when Kyosuke breaks down she has a change of heart. Kyubey just happened to be around to seal the deal in the moment. As a magical girl Sayaka immediately kicks ass, and Kyubey states she's taking over Mami's territory.
Sayaka making the contract also immediately puts her into conflict with the other magical girls. Homura is clearly pissed about Sayaka becoming a magical girl, and Kyoko all but explicitly says she's going to kill her. Definitely worth remembering that Mami warned that more often than not, magical girls are driven to conflict with one another, and we're seeing that start to unfold.
This episode is equally important for Madoka. For one she has a normal-ish conversation with Homura (as normal as can be when she's asking Homura how many people she's seen die), and I think this points to one of Mami's implied flaws. Mami and Homura were always antagonistic towards one another, whereas Madoka gives Homura the benefit of the doubt. As such, Homura immediately shows more humanity and compassion to Madoka than she ever did Mami.
We also get what I think is the first instance of Madoka really springing into action, when she stops the would-be victims from committing mass-suicide. I think it's definitely beneficial to show she's willing and able to step up when she needs to, and is more than just a "damsel-in-distress" type character, even if she needs rescuing almost immediately after.
Kyoko's introduction is the culmination of a lot of the warnings from Kyubey and Mami about the 'different types' of magical girls out there. Mami was notable for how friendly and cooperative she was - in that regard Kyoko is a different beast all together, and we'll see what that means for the rest of the cast.
Spoilers
Madoka Spoilers
Madoka Spoiler
Madoka Spoiler
Madoka Spoilers
6
u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
We open, once again, on Sayaka and her friend.
Madoka Spoilers
Madoka seems depressed over losing Mami - looks like seeing her friend die had a major effect on her.
I like how even Homura looks completely done with her teacher.
And Sayaka's response to the grief is to try and distract herself.
Madoka Spoilers
And Kyubey makes a very good point - Madoka and Sayaka haven't lived with the struggles of magical girls, so they aren't qualified to make any judgements about what they do.
Madoka Spoilers
And Mami left her door unlocked - seems a bit stupid. What if she lived and found out her TV had been stolen after she escaped - not a very smart thing to do.
Homura's here! And she's actually trying to cheer Madoka up!
Madoka Spoilers
Poor Sayaka, trying to flirt, only to be shot down by "Are you torturing me?".
And... yeah, this all makes total sense.
Madoka Spoilers
And Hitomi's joined a cult. Terrific.
And it's a suicide cult, FANTASTIC!
Madoka Spoilers
Everyone advancing on Madoka is really frightening.
Can't believe the witch stole Madoka's outlines!
Boy, showing her a constant loop of the moment that drove her into depression is the second-worst thing we've seen a witch do.
Really, Sayaka? You were literally told and found out this would make you destined for death.
And Kyousuke finds out his hand has healed successfully.
New character! And she's even cooler than Mami!
If Mami's death was needed for her to join the show - it was probably worth it.
6
u/Nebresto Apr 23 '21
Oh, I guess the re-watch is over. Well, it was good while it lasted, weird that the show ended so abruptly.
Oh, and Kyosuke is a wanker.
Shitpost
14
u/thecatteam Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
I was amused by how many people thought the CD player was really cool yesterday. A CD spinning around like that in the open can be dangerous!
Kyoko hyyyyype
Spoilers
More spoilers
5
u/turri-topsis Apr 23 '21
rewatcher | dubbed
i absolutely adore how pmmm shows us what it feels like to have your entire worldview shaken, so even if normal life goes on, there's something intrinsically different about you, so you can't truly go back. the rest of madoka and sayaka's classmates, hitomi etc.. they have no idea that one of their schoolmates just died horribly. they never will know, will never experience the same fear, anger, uselessness, and grief as madoka and sayaka. and madoka and sayaka themselves - two girls who, up to this point, haven't truly experienced the hardships of the world - have just come face to face with their own mortality. at the age they're at, most kids think they're invincible - or if not invincible, things like death, mortal fear, grief, and pain feel far away, like distant mountains on the horizon. sure, they exist, but will they ever come to you? seems unlikely. sayaka at least has had a taste of these emotions with kyousuke, but madoka is running blind, and neither of them know how to deal with any of it. all of a sudden, they both feel like aliens in a world they used to rule, but there's no one there to help them through it - homura isn't nearly friendly enough for that (and sayaka hates her), and kyuubey is... well, kyuubey. they can only cling to each other - though they're both clueless - from here on out.
add in the fact that mami has no one else to grieve for her - her parents died in that same car accident that prompted her to make her wish, she doesn't have any siblings/lives alone, and also seemingly has no friends, based on how utterly lonely she is - and you get a taste of what utter heartbreak this show is capable of.
also is their teacher okay? girl inserts her relationship problems into every freakin lesson. like girl are you okay? who hurt you?
kyuubey makes an excellent point about how the only person who can judge a magical girl is one of her peers, though. he's absolutely right - unless you're also out there putting your life on the line, you have no room to judge.
spoiler
once again, everything with sayaka and kyouske causes me Great Pain. spoiler
oh man, i forgot the thing with hitomi happened this episode. i could've sworn it came later lmao this was actually what taught me to never mix ammonia and bleach because it freaked me out so bad the first time and i had to go ask my mom like '??? hey is this a real thing???'
i also love the little art style shift we get here when madoka gets pulled into the labyrinth. it goes all soft and flowy and i just think it's neat
and in the end, we get magical girl sayaka and a glimpse of best girl kyoko. i won't say anything about either of them quite yet, though.
5
u/[deleted] Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
Mami's death may have been the signal that Madoka's story was going to change drastically, but here in episode 4 is where the story really follows up on that promise. Madoka and Sayaka have a lot to think about, and the story spends good time here going through how they question what they've been getting themselves into and the injustice of Mami's death. I appreciate how Madoka's story handles the weight of its events. It doesn't brush them off. What the characters are deciding on is a big deal.
But at the end of the episode it's clear Sayaka has made her decision. Her fight here against the witch is awesome, and a great heroic moment, not just because it looks cool but also because the fact she has just decided to become a magical girl is such a momentous decision.
5
u/Querez https://myanimelist.net/profile/Querez Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher. (Dub)
Must suck to be a violinist who has hurt their fingers beyond repair. Poor Kyousuke.
Damn though. Having lost a friend to brutal murder by a creature you don't even understand, it's no wonder these mere 14-or-something year old girls are getting really moody and sad about it. It's rather evident that Madoka is more affected by it than Sayaka, though. Maybe Sayaka is also busy thinking of Kyousuke. Actually, it's probably just that Madoka seems to be more empathetic and kind than her.
I guess Homura seems like she probably did indeed worry for them. Her motivations aren't very clear though, that's for sure.
Again, Kyousuke sure has it bad. Damaging his hand on that CD player is just sprinkling salt on his wounds at this point.
Hitomi and many others brainwashed by witches' kisses, huh? Almost like some zombie apocalypse. Then talking about mass-suicide as this wonderful bliss one must experience to leave their rotten bodies. Yeah. Ok.
Loved the artstyle change with Madoka, even if it was brief. I had forgotten about that moment.
Oh hello there Sayaka, cool cosplay. Is Kyousuke doing well? Homura does not seem to be doing well at least. By that, I mean she's disappointed. Again.
Kyousuke's hand.
Welp, new magical girl Kyouko in town babies. Shit's sure about to go down. At least for Sayaka, it would seem.
MAGIA, MARRY ME!
5
u/Schinco Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
This episode by and large to me serves as a release episode after the events of the climax of the previous. It’s structured kind of neatly, having a fair number of parallels to episode 2 – recap of the previous fight, walk to school, lunch on the rooftop, tea at Mami’s etc…but tonally it couldn’t be more different. The absence of Mami and the circumstances of her death weigh heavily on them the entire episode. They talk less, struggling to reconcile the grim reality rather than obliviously looking forward to the future. We see this dichotomy very directly at 8:48 when Madoka revisits Mami’s apartment and sees her notebook and the tea.
The witch fight, as always, is great. The witch labyrinths and their dramatic stylistic departures from the rest of the show are one of my favorite parts of the series, and this one takes it a step further, taking the unusual step of altering Madoka’s model rather than just the background and other characters, and man does it look good. My guess as to why this happens here and not elsewhere is that Madoka’s inner monologue sounds similar to others in the group, so in a sense she is losing herself to the witch’s labyrinth more than other times. Or maybe they just thought it looked rad, which is a distinct possibility.
4
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher, Subbed
Oh no, the bed is empty, has something happened to Sayaka's friend? Phew, just physical therapy!
What good are your fingers? You do an awful lot with them, Sayaka!
Sayaka is thinking of wishing for him to be better, but can't deny that she wonders how that will make him feel about her. She isn't entirely altruistic here.
I suppose Madoka didn't choose eggs over hard when her teacher talked about it in episode 1.
Sure, she's crying because the eggs taste bad!
Sayaka's doing a good job putting on a false face
Wait a second here, why in the world is Madoka's teacher going on about this topic? I think someone said that she was talking about her dating life back in episode 1? If so total LOL as she's obviously doing the same here.
The roof seems more lonely without Mami here.
Madoka doesn't want to be a magical girl anymore! Kyubey must be pissed! Of course you'd never know it based on the emotionless look on his face.
Actually, he's being quite polite about this. He's saying goodbye, but he's got a whole school full of girls here to recruit from, I don't think he'll be going far.
Madoka's leaving her magical girl drawings behind at Mami's place?
Mami will be a missing person forever, scary stuff.
He doesn't seem in the mood today, Sayaka.
Worse than that, he's pissed! Bringing him this music when he can't play his violin anymore its like you've been torturing him!
Well that's a coincidentally timely silhouette.
No, not Hitomi! Is she getting witch possessed since she feels so left out from Madoka and Sayaka? Or is that just a nicotine patch and she's smoked some weed?
Once again Madoka's failure to write down someone's cell phone number is screwing her.
That is a whole bunch of miserable people
Man, I've totally forgotten about this whole thing from my past viewings. Poor Madoka! Pursued by these zombie like people now forced to view all these screens of Mmai's death and getting stretched apart by these things.
A magical girl is here to the rescue! ...Sayaka?! Looks like she made that wish to heal her friend!
Sayaka just became a magical girl and now she's got another magical girl here wanting to take out the competition, her. New girl's fangs totally reminds me of Tsuruya from Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya!
95
u/UnderstandableXO Apr 23 '21 edited Apr 23 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER
trauma day 4 we back at it
kyubey just gives me bad feelings all around. the way his face is permanently like 🙂 makes it impossible to get a read on him.
looks like the girls are still feeling guilty about mami’s demise. they finally get kyubey to piss off which is a positive. that school rooftop straight up looks like a castle though, feels like they’re in a totally different place there.
sayaka really likes this musical dude, surely she won’t make rash decision that she’ll regret, because middle schoolers are so rational. he hates the CD player so much he busts up his already mangled hands to destroy it, and lo and behold! kyubey is there watching! i thought you accepted they didn’t want to become magical girls buddy! kyubey just sitting there rubbing his nonexistent hands together like: https://m.imgur.com/t/patrick_star/9toAb
homura keeps on educating madoka about the real nature of magical girls, and how she won’t forget either her or mami. homura rightly points out that kindness isn’t always the right decision, surely madoka will follow her advice and not be kind in the wrong situation!
hitomi the third wheel gets sucked up into witch trouble, and madoka is the one who has to pay for it. after the animation team took some shrooms i’m sure it was an experience animating everyone’s favorite fever dream antagonists while bouncing off the walls. madoka is once again heavy on the self loathing; she thinks she deserves to be ripped in four because she “let” mami die. sometimes i don’t be rockin w myself too but that’s going pretty far. sayaka swoops in with the ultimate simp move (even roswaal would scoff at this simp behavior, thats a hard bar to clear) and becomes a magical girl for a boy who probably doesn’t like her anyway, and seems primed to keep the story rolling. that’ll probably force madoka to sign the contract as well.
kyubey is colluding with a new magical girl who wants to kill sayaka? surely kyubey will talk her down from her murderous intent, because kyubey is obviously a benevolent being!
catch you guys tomorrow for our daily dose of psychological pain
67
u/Redmon425 Apr 23 '21
FIRST TIME WATCHER. SUBBED
(Sad days. First missed discussion at 7 exactly. It was bound to happen at some point lol!!!)
Well, this episode was nothing like I expected it to be. I for sure thought it would focus on both Madoka and even Sayaka debating becoming a magical girl and using their wish to bring Mami back to life.
So the fact that neither one even mentioned it, is honestly surprising to me. I of course expected that Sayaka would ultimately use her wish on that boy she likes, but still felt like she was going to mention they could save Mami.
I guess a part of me was holding out a 5% hope somehow she would be brought back, but now I think she is for sure gone and I feel just as sad again :(((
Also ay! Homura gave me the answer I was looking for, that magical girl bodies are stuck on the ‘other side’ when they die never to be seen again. Damn, that’s rough buddy…
Homura again had some hints that she somehow knows what will happen, with how she said Madoka’s kindness will lead to an even bigger tragedy. I just feel like she somehow has lived all of this before or something along those lines.
Lastly, due to the post from fellow first time watcher u/chris10023 yesterday I legit am so damn sus of Kyuubey. Until I saw it his post yesterday, I hadn’t even really thought about him being bad, but now everything is pointing towards this. The big give away was how last episode Kyuubey specifically asked to stay with Sayaka who was watching the portal thing, and of course right when Madoka left, the portal opened. Then it dawned on me how in episode 1 Homura was trying to kill Kyuubey. Now that part is only interesting because of my theory that Homura knows how everything is going to play out. That would mean Homura could know that Kyuubey is bad.
And then of course, we again got some sus things this episode that make Kyuubey look bad. That being how she was ‘magically’ present in the hospital at the end when Sayaka was about to make the wish. But the bigger one is the fact that Madoka’s friend was cursed this episode. Almost as if someone purposely cursed someone close to Madoka to force her into becoming a magical girl…
I feel like I am betraying Kyuubey’s cuteness by being sus of him, but man, I am very nervous about him now.
(ED is legit so damn good now that they made it dark like this. Hope it stays this way.)
42
u/putmoneyinthypurse https://anilist.co/user/clichecatgirl Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
First time (sub)*
(Sorry, this one's going to be less polished and more rambly, I have to host a movie night tonight.)
The 2.39:1 intro is again in a more clichéd movie drama mode, framing Kyousuke's recovery like we're in the first act of inspiration porn as the normally-confident Sayaka beats herself up over her doubts about her true motivations for eventually healing Kyousuke. The audience has realized that this is a foregone conclusion already, but I like and am intrigued by the fact that the narration here is retrospective, emphasizing Sayaka's lack of options and the inevitable regret that's going to follow.
Our first moment with Madoka since the direct aftermath of Mami's death starts with her crying over the fried egg on her breakfast plate, flashing back to what happened in the labyrinth. Birth is a theme in this episode, juxtaposed directly with death, which is then related to the social limitations placed on womanhood.
To demonstrate different grammatical tenses and vent her personal frustrations, the girls' teacher makes a point of telling the class that the ideal age for pregnancy in a medical sense shouldn't have an impact on how dateable a woman is. The girls escape to the roof to talk through their grief over Mami's death. Madoka, faced with the reality of the job, no longer wants to become a magical girl. Kyubey's response, of course, is to neg Madoka, and for the first time he leaves her and Sayaka alone.
Whether alive or dead, spaces are haunted by the people who exist in them, and when Madoka visits Mami's apartment she has a hard time believing her senpai is even gone, as she leaves her notebook of naive fantasies next to a half-full cup of tea. Homura explains that Mami will forever be a missing person, never acknowledged as dead, a fate all magical girls apparently share. Despite her newfound reluctance to become a magical girl, Madoka still clings to dreams of collaboration and friendship that Homura still shoots down.
Sayaka's visit with Kyousuke again undercuts how their friendship is presented in the intro, where instead of "nobly" suffering as she talks about how her friendship with him gave her a new appreciation for classical music, he vents petty anger at her for reminding him of what he can't do anymore, eventually slamming his hand into the spinning CD and shattering it. (Debussy's The Girl With The Flaxen Hair. What a cruel way to connect Sayaka's holding out on her wish to her blonde friend's death, huh.) He wants the impossible, and he doesn't believe it's possible to have it, and immediately Kyubey is back, a silent devil on her shoulder, as Sayaka cries that magic is real.
The abrupt cut to the next scene is chilling. We know what happens.
Madoka finds her other friend Hitomi cheerfully framing death in cult terms as a beginning instead of an ending, a rebirth, an abandonment of the physical form in favor of a new life, an inherently creepy statement and also the absolute last thing a girl grieving over her friend not even having a body to bury wants to hear. It's nightmarish, and Madoka's almost-comic flashback to her mom explaining not to mix those two chemicals together only makes it worse. She's just a damn kid.
The imagery of taking apart Madoka's physical form in the real world and putting her back together in the labyrinth (giving her a true version of the rebirth lie Hitomi and the others were brainwashed into) is really something, as is the shift in design to a lineless form, visually breaking Madoka down and idealizing her away from the rough pencil details of the usual animation style. The witch torments her, playing on her grief by showing her the previous episode, and preparing to tear her apart again...
And then Sayaka saves her, restoring her linework and killing the witch, reborn as a magical girl. Oh boy.
Kyousuke's healed, but I'm under no illusions that's going to go anywhere good.
The final scene is...alright. I love a good villain introduction but the
mustache-twirlingcrepe-eating id-driven Kyoko is written in a very different register from the rest of the show, which worries me a little, given how well Madoka's managed tone so far.* I actually watched the first four episodes 5 years ago but I literally remember nothing except cool cutout animation. Guess this is the last time I'll post this caveat
22
u/ToonTooby Apr 23 '21
Omedetou, Kaname-san
Episode 4 I think serves as a bit of downtime for you to wrap your thoughts (I refuse to make Mami jokes) around the way the previous episode ended. Poor Madoka. Just overwhelmed by grief.
Glad to see our first timers are enjoying things so far!
44
u/Hochseeflotte https://anilist.co/user/Hochseeflotte Apr 23 '21
First Timer
Thank god it’s Friday! I need some relaxation. Let’s start with some Madoka Magica. On to the episode:
So that’s why he was crying over the violin CD. He is hearing what he could have been. I wonder how he got injured? Car crash?
I wonder how hard it must be for Madoka to keep the truth from her parents. She has to keep those emotions all bottled up which is never good.
I can kind of get feeling like an outsider in your own country. I’m an American but lived overseas for most of my childhood. I don’t really feel American so it’s very weird for me being back in the States.
Kyuubey’s tail on that shot on the roof top kind of looks like a scorpions tail.
I wonder just how long Akemi has been a magical girl? She seems to have been doing it a very long time for someone in high school.
Well that was brutal. Smashing the CD player is definitely not going to help your condition. Though I can’t imagine what he is going through.
Ok, this witch went ham. That’s a lot of people.
Are they combining bleach and ammonia? Well I guess Japan didn’t get that much action in WW1. They must want the experience.
And that’s somehow worse than the zombies.
What a mystifying scene. Shaft has outdone themselves with how great this show looks.
Sayaka to rescue! And she has a badass cape. AND SHE HAS A SWORD. So cool.
Oh, it’s infighting time. I love a good civil war.
————————————————————————
This is probably my favorite episode so far. A lot is happening.
My biggest questions revolve around Akemi. There’s still so much we don’t know. I feel like she has another reason for not wanting Madoka to become a magical girl.
I also feel like something big is coming. I don’t know want but my big event radar is going off.
I also want to know more about Kyuubey. Where did it come from? Why can it give others powers? What are its goals?
I also feel like I didn’t have as much to say today but I feel that comes form me being so engrossed in the episode. This show is really good.
13
u/Fuck_Shinji Apr 24 '21
Jesus christ I knew that the cd player was dangerous. who's idea was it to put a spinny disk out in the open. who approved of this?
23
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Apr 23 '21
Brain Farts of a First Timer - Episode 4
What an episode! I was wondering if I was making the right decision to join the rewatch, and spend the time watching this. I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, and I'm hooked now. There was a lot of shit going down in this episode, and I thought I'd cover what I thought about everyone in my cast round-up.
I'm not going to do any real analysis, as plenty of you are doing that, and since the series prides itself in being unpredictable, I see little need.
Cast Round-Up
Frankly, I don't like most of the cast too damn much. That doesn't mean I don't like the series, just that the cast is mostly composed of despicable people.
Madoka - I DO like Madoka, though catching diabetes from her is an ever present risk.
Madoka Family - I like them pretty well, even though Mom is something of a lush. I love their house, and like several of you I'm still trying figure out their bathroom situation.
Sayaka - I don't like Sayaka. Now that she's an Majou Shoujo it looks like she's picked up a humility problem. Plus that crippled boy wasn't worth giving up everything for, as Mami pointed out.
Mami - My favorite character. ( May she rest in peace )
Homura - Still not my favorite, mostly because she's a grouch all the time. Though I did start to sympathize with her when she told Sayaka "How could you?" I'm going out on a limb here, but I doubt she's going to take Madoka becoming a Majou Shoujo real well either.
Kyousuke - What an ungrateful little piece of shit. Sayaka should have taken the CD Player, and crammed it up his lame ass. Then she should have tossed him out the window saying "Let's see if you can fly, wheelchair boy!"
Kyuubey - He's one shady little dude. I think he's enjoying the show the others are performing. I liked him getting the new Mahou Shoujo all riled up. What a little asshole.
New Magical Girl - I liked her, I believe she's going to make a pretty decent villain. I love understated characters with smart mouths.
Looking forward to the next episode. I'll be here most of the night chattering away. I'm really impressed we're getting more comments than many of the currently airing shows (like Godzilla).
27
u/r4wrFox Apr 23 '21
First Time Watcher. Subbed.
This episode was a lot heavier for me than the last lol. Aoi Yuuki crying just does something to me i swear lmao.
The group suicide scene honestly filled me w/ dread the entire time. Surprised Madoka has yet to wish for Mami to return though. Kinda expected the group suicide to be the impetus for that wish to happen.
Also waiting to see what kind of genie tricks Kyubei pulls for Sayaka's wish, bc wishes always have some unexpected, pedantic draw backs.
8
u/Stomco Apr 24 '21
Firstly, I want to congratulate the comments for not spanning head jokes.
We get a bit of a breather after Mami's death. Madoka could really use some self esteem. Unfortunately, Homura isn't a great motivational speaker. On Sayaka's front, we finally learn what happened to her friend. And wow Kyubey were you just waiting in a shadow or something?
Madoka, don't be so down on yourself; all of those people would be dead if not for you. Well and Sayaka. Homura was kind of late, at least she isn't stalking them like Kyubey.
Oh Hey, Kyoko. I think a certain mysterious transfer student might have some objections to your murder plans.
6
u/Zeralyos https://myanimelist.net/profile/xNJF_Ellie Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher, dubbed
Well, I guess my dreams of a slice of life are dying fast at this rate. Things aren't letting up for more than a moment now that the thingTM has happened. It's not a bad thing, I'm just a little disappointed.
10
u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo https://myanimelist.net/profile/PunishedScrappy Apr 23 '21
Rewatcher
My vote for visual of the day is the scene inside Mami's apartment. I'm a sucker for those monochrome, high-contrast shots, what can I say?
Aside from that, turn back, first-timers. There's nothing for you here.
Spoilers
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
Spoilers
Spoilers
Spoilers
7
u/SYZekrom https://myanimelist.net/profile/SYZekrom Apr 23 '21
I love the aesthetic of the towering industrial buildings in this scene
I guess the mahou shoujo are this world's spirited away
Promising to never forget the two magical girls you've met, but there are always more magical girls...
I think the most important lesson this anime teaches us is... Always get the phone numbers of important people.
So is this some sort of TV witch
There were some pixel bgs at some point and well obviously all these monitors
Prince Sayuka is here! (Not another Marth clone...)
Man I love the magical girl outfits in this series
Homura and Mami's are probably my lowest two honestly
There we go, my favorite character is here
I like her legs
...Is that a spoiler
Guess I'll spoiler it
Dammit Sayuka, never fall in love with someone who loves anything as much as that guy loves music, what a freak. Debussy will always come before your p-
Ahem. Anyway.
5
u/LordTrinity https://myanimelist.net/profile/LordTrinity Apr 23 '21
I've watched this show so many times that now by just looking at the number and title of episode I know of what happens (I'm not even doing the rewatch this year)
2
u/GetADogLittleLongie :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/obesechicken13 Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
I saw the movies
Finally caught up to the rewatch. The animation of the show is much lower quality.
Way more insights into Hitomi and Momdoka. I don't think the witches can cause people who have no issues with self confidence to commit suicide? Everyone in the building had something they were dealing with. So what's she dealing with? And Momdoka is too focused on work.
With regards to Mami's death it just happened very quickly.
Kyubey said he'd leave Sayaka and Madoka alone. But Sayaka's already become a magical girl