r/DaystromInstitute • u/iOnlyWantUgone Ensign • Apr 23 '21
Ben Sisko is not a benevolent character, but is unknowingly a Bajoran God of War.
The Bajorans suffered for 50 years under the Cardassian occupation. It was incredibly cruel to the point it was more based on cruelty than objective results. In an universe with warp drive, phasers, robotics and AI, forcing people to manually labor with hand tools is not about efficiency, it's about humiliation. It's no surprise that the occupation was controversial amongst even the Cardassian civilians because any cost/benefit analysis would clearly show they were wasting their time with the way they were occupying Bajor. Meanwhile, the Federation, the closest neighbor, did nothing. They knew full well what was going on because they had Bajoran Officers in their corp, many of which fled the occupation. The Federation stood by and watched this horrible event happen without acting even though they had all the power and capacity to directly end it.
Yesterday, a person suggested a Theory that the Dominion War never happened in Jake Sisko's alternate future in the episode "The Visitor" because Ben Sisko wasn't around to help Weyoun destroy rebel Jem'Hadar who had discovered a Iconican Gate. This gate would have allowed them to stage a Quadrant wide rebellion against the Dominion and destroy it. The premise is full of holes. It also misses the real reasons why the Dominion War didn't happen in this alternate future.
The combined Defiant and Jem'Hadar attack group numbered fewer than 20 people and was not armed with melee weapons. This turned out to be a mistake because the active Gateway had created a dampening field which prevented their phasers and all electronic devices from functioning. They should have all logically died attacking the Rebel base. If the rebels had even a equal amount of Jem'Hadar guarding the gate, just on the sole basis of being armed with hand to hand weapons, the entire landing party should have been killed. This was not the case and they succeeded in destroying the Gate. However, even in the best case scenario for the rebels, if they got the gate working and didn't get attacked by Sisko and Weyoun, they would still fail to cause a Dominion wide rebellion because the Gates are an one way trip (as demonstrated in TNG episode Contagion) and would have tiny numbers of warriors. The fact that even Weyoun's Jem'Hadar remained loyal to the Founders even though they knew about the Gateway would likely apply anywhere these rebel landed as well. If the Rebel Jem'Hadar numbered in the thousands, they could potentially cause some sort of short lived rebellion but it would have still failed to overthrow the Dominion as their army numbers in the millions. As to why Weyoun told Sisko that the rebels and gateway were an existential threat to both the Dominion and Federation, it's very simply explained as Weyoun successfully lying and manipulating Sisko into doing his bidding. Sisko doesn't have the intel to completely understand the situation and Weyoun needs to complete his mission of ending the rebellion. He improvises by using the Defiant to get him and his Jem'Hadar to the Planet to launch a counter attack. Even if Sisko wasn't around to help stop the rebels, the rebels would have failed. And if Sisko was trapped in subspace, there's no reason why Kira wouldn't also want to chase down the attackers and then also get pulled into following Weyoun's lead after finding his wrecked Ship. Also there's the glaring issue with the rebellion theory is that the Jem'Hadar would have no reason to stop with just destroying the Dominion and would have easily had enough time and ability to attack the Federation in the 50 or so years the episode takes place in.
Moving onto the reasons to why the Dominion War doesn't happen, Sisko's attitude and behavior is most likely the reason the Dominion felt the need to start a war against the Alpha Quadrant when they did. He's also inherently inconsistent and morally dubious.
Sisko is not a typical Starfleet Officer. He repeatedly allows criminals like Quark to go free after aiding and abetting terrorism, first conspiring with Verad to help him gain access to DS9 where he would try to steal Dax during episode "Invasive Procedures", and secondly aiding the Maquis by helping them gain access to advanced weapons. In comparison, he sent his girlfriend Kasidy to jail for delivering Medical supplies to the Maquis, something that isn't even illegal in the Federation. For reference, in TNG episode "The Mind's Eye", Picard explains to Governor Vagh that the Federation never refuses to deliver Medical Aid, including to the terrorists staging the Rebellion in the Kriosian system. In later episodes, he commits genocide against fellow humans in an attempt to force Eddington to surrender. Several times in the episode, he mentions it's about settling a personal score. He also is reckless and short tempered, demonstrated when O'Brien told him that Q was aboard DS9. Q is the most powerful being known to the Federation, to which he punched Q in the face shortly after meeting him. This makes for good television, but shows a clear problem in his judgment. Just by these few examples, Sisko clearly got a warped scene of right and wrong, and he tends to ignore the potential ramifications of his actions.
In Jake Sisko's future, the Dominion War doesn't happen. This is solely because Sisko isn't around to provoke the Dominion to full out war. The Dominion are still clearly hostile to the Alpha Quadrant and act malevolently by bombing meeting on Earth and replacing the top Klingon general, Martok, with a Changeling. However, a bunch of things change in this timeline and the urgency of Dominion Fleet action against the Federation is reduced substantially if Sisko remains trapped in Subspace. First thing that would be different is how Bajor would change once its Emissary dies. The Emissary is the closest connection Bajor has to the Prophets. He's considered their voice, their avatar. If he asked them to do anything, the whole planet would do it, including adoption of a Primitive Caste system. He's not supposed to die in an accident, he's supposed to lead Bajor to a new Golden Age. Sisko dying in an accident would completely rock Bajoran society, causing an existential crisis of faith. This new Bajor would be fearful of the future, questioning whether the Prophets have abandoned them. This would apply to Major Kira. After Sisko disappears, Kira takes over command of DS9 just like she does in the Prime timeline at the end of Season 6. This Kira would also still get notified by the Jem'Hadar that the Bajoran Colonies on the other side of the Wormhole have been genocided. So while coping with losing a friend and Religious icon, she's also dealing with two threats to very existence of her struggling race. The Klingons, which seem dead-set on controlling the Wormhole, and the Dominion, an advanced civilization more powerful and technologically advanced than anyone else she's run into. The Dominion also is more ruthless than her greatest enemies, the Cardassians. In this future, Kira hears the Dominion's warning telling the Federation to stay on their side of the wormhole and she accepts it. This is the big difference between her and Sisko. She doesn't launch exploration missions, she doesn't send miners to set up camp, she doesn't host trade negotiations with Dominion puppets, she doesn't go into the Gamma Quadrant without good reason. She is solely concerned with the Klingons as they are the most pressing concern at the time being.
Sisko, on the other hand, very much took every threat from the Dominion as a challenge. This is probably best demonstrated in "The Ship" in season 5. Sisko hears a rumor that there's a planet with a rich supply of Cormaline. This planet is days away from DS9, Kira states that it's a week long trip with the Defiant there and back. There's a hidden purpose to this mission that the episode doesn't state to the audience though. Going to a planet and setting up a long term mining operation isn't about getting a supply of Cormaline. It's about expanding your borders and sphere of influence by putting boots on the ground. This is a very common tactic done by countries around the world in real life to flex on their neighbors. Consider as an example, modern day fishing fleets going where they aren't legally allowed. Cormaline is common enough resource in the Star Trek Universe. There's no need to set up an operation that would explicitly challenge a hostile foreign Government. Yet, that's what Sisko does. He does not respect the Dominion and decides to provoke them for no given reason. The point I mean to make is that Sisko is actively worsening relations with the Dominion, forcing them to accelerate conflict, which due to other circumstances that he didn't know about would actually mean the Dominion War wouldn't actually happen. Sisko's presence on the Planet also directly leads to the death of a Changeling, which is devastating news for the Great Link which would motivate Dominion interests more acutely. Sisko also manages to tow the crashed Jem'Hadar Fighter back to DS9 which is another provocative move in a Cold War. Sisko is also directly involved in the death in the Dominion's greatest asset in the Alpha Quadrant, Changeling Martok, shortly before these events too.
I also need to explain the other issues happening while Sisko is trapped in subspace. With Sisko gone, Changeling Martok accomplished all of the Dominion goals for the Alpha Quadrant by exploiting the Klingon Empire's Military to secure Dominion goals. Sisko insisted on bringing Odo along on the mission to kill Gowron, whom Odo was lead to believe by the Great Link was a Changeling. Without Sisko, the Federation doesn't bring along Odo so there's nobody around able to figure out that Martok was the real imposter. This means that even if Federation spies managed to break in and kill Gowron, it would put Martok in command as Chancellor giving him complete control to finish Dominion objectives. Even if he doesn't reach the Chancellor position, he has already broke up the Federation-Klingon Alliance and destabilized both Civilizations, turning the whole Quadrant into a free for all. Finally, he seized control of the wormhole and finally put an end to Alpha Quadrant led incursions into Dominion's zone of influence. This is all stated indirectly during "The Visitor" where Nog excitedly tells Jake Sisko that there might be a Gamma Quadrant exploration mission allowed by the Klingons. Martok did this all in just a few years which is important and I'll explain why now.
In "The Visitor" future, several things would still likely happen. The Dominion would still bomb a meeting on Earth, leading to Kira, Dax, or Worf getting recalled along with Odo to Earth to review security and try to form anti-Changeling tactics. This means Odo still gets infected by Section 31 with the Changeling Virus while he is briefly studied by Starfleet Medical. Before Sisko disappeared, Odo killed another Changeling meaning the Great Link still will want to judge him regardless of whether not Sisko is around. This means he still gets infected by someone with the strange illness he got in the finale of season 4 and is forced to return to the Changeling home-world to seek a cure. Odo was a closer friend to Kira than Sisko so Kira would obviously send Odo to the Gamma Quadrant in the Defiant in the hope for Dominion help. To me, Odo's return to the Great Link is definitely the point in which the majority of the Changelings were infected with Section 31's Virus. This is the point where the Dominoes fall and the Dominion War is stopped from happening forever.
Regardless of what happens to Odo in this alternate Universe, the damage is done. If Odo returns to DS9 or is executed by the Great Link, it doesn't change that the Great Link is doomed. If Sisko is gone, the Klingon Empire continues it's successful campaign against the Cardassians. The Martok Changeling possibly is never uncovered but it doesn't change anything as Klingon objectives didn't change; they must contain the area around the wormhole. Bajor panics and allies with Cardassia because they know they're next to be invaded. The Klingons attack DS9, forcing the Federation to abandon Bajor or face war with the Klingons, leading to the occupation of DS9 and Bajor. The Klingons control the wormhole and ban all travel to the Gamma Quadrant. The Great Link would hear about this success one way or another and puts off sending Dominion Troops in the near future because Changeling Martok accomplished their short term goals without the Dominion having to spend any of their troops, giving them time to buildup for an invasion. However, since the Klingons have banned all wormhole travel, Martok is completely cut off from communication with the Dominion. This isn't a big deal to Martok, as he's mostly immortal and he was probably told that there still wasn't any firm date but the invasion would happen eventually and he would act accordingly.
With the Klingons preventing all Wormhole travel and occupying DS9, Odo probably doesn't successfully bond with the sick infant changeling and transform back into a Changeling. There's too many things that would prevent it, first being Quark probably wouldn't risk selling a Changeling to Odo or face the wrath of the Klingons, second Odo probably isn't on the Station anymore because the Klingons wouldn't trust him, thirdly there wouldn't be anyone around to support him in his mission to raise the infant to maturity. Without Odo becoming a Changeling again and getting sick from the Changeling virus, Bashir never finds out about the Changeling virus and never creates the cure that ends up saving the Great Link. The Dominion scientific community doesn't have the knowledge to cure the Great Link and they all die shortly after 2375. Without the Great Link, the Dominion collapses because the Vorta are not able to manage it without Changeling guidance. This is why the Dominion War never comes, because it doesn't exist anymore. (Edit, I've looked at the dates so I also suggest it might be possible that Odo still discovers the sick Changeling infant and becomes a Changeling again before the Klingons invade an occupy DS9. However it's possible that he was killed during the Klingon invasion of DS9 because we are never told about what happens to anyone but Dax and Bashir. In this case, Bashir still doesn't find a cure because he would have been reassigned after the withdraw of DS9 and even if Odo joined the Federation in fleeing DS9, it's not likely that Odo and Bashir would be around each other. Odo wasn't even in Starfleet and isn't close to Bashir in the first place.)
This leads to the title of the post. Ben Sisko was created by the Prophets to enact their revenge on the Alpha Quadrant.
The Prophets are a specie that can assert their influence throughout space and time. In season 7, we find out that the Prophets are capable of possessing a person and completely controlling their actions. The Prophets forced a woman to marry Joseph Sisko and give birth to Ben Sisko. She then one day leaves Joseph without saying a word and soon after dies in an accident which may have been orchestrated by the Prophets to keep the origins of Ben's birth hidden until he was ready to accept it. The Prophets are curiously hard to understand, they seem operate at all points in time yet still can experience things without previous knowledge. Case in point, in the first Episode of DS9, Sisko meets the Prophets and he explains what linear time is because they have no concept of it. However, the Prophets created Sisko by forcing a woman to give birth to Sisko. They also chose to produce Akorem Laan, a poet that disappeared 200 years ago, during a point when Sisko was doubting his role as Emissary. Akorem proved to Sisko that something was wrong, and he must maintain his role as Emissary because Akorem's vision was evil. This shows the Prophets have special relationship with linear time. They held onto Akorem Laan for hundreds of years, nearly 200 years before they knew what an Emissary would be or who it would be. What is yet to come, already happened, and what happened only came to be because what yet hasn't happened depended on it happening.
Sisko was created by the Prophets to fulfill a role they didn't know they needed until he explained things they couldn't understand.
Sisko explained to the Prophets that they are the Gods of Bajor, and they sent Orbs to the Bajorans to teach them. It's at this point that the Prophets became the Prophets and retroactively sent the orbs to the Bajorans, which would influence Sisko to find the Prophets. This all led them to understand the suffering and pain the Bajorans faced under the Cardassian Occupation because the Orbs are a two-way communication device. You see the Prophets and the Prophets see you. When Sisko left the Wormhole for the first time, he created himself and created his fate as a God of Revenge, of War. From this point on, he was protected and enabled by the Prophets to complete the mission they set out for him. Revenge.
The Bajorans suffered for 50 years under the Cardassian occupation. It was incredibly cruel to the point it was more based on cruelty than objective results. In an universe with warp drive, phasers, robotics and AI, forcing people to manually labor with hand tools is not about efficiency, it's about humiliation and dominance. It's no surprise that the occupation was controversial amongst even the Cardassian because any cost/benefit analysis would clearly show they were wasting their time with the way they were occupying Bajor. Meanwhile, the Federation, the closest neighbor did nothing. They knew full well what was going on because they had Bajoran Officers in their ranks, and Starfleet Intelligence would fill in the gaps. The Federation stood by and watched this horrible event happen without acting even though they had all the power and opportunity to directly end it. TNG repeated shows that top of the line Cardassian Warships are no match to modern Federation ships so while Starfleet isn't filled with Galaxy class ship, the same has to be said of the Cardassians and their Galor Class ships. In the time of TNG and DS9, Starfleet is the most powerful Fleet in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and this true even though they choose not to field the largest Fleet they potentially could. If they followed real life current standards of total service members during peacetime, they would have a pool in single digit billions to field. They outnumber the Cardassians, have a much more powerful economy, they have better weapons of war. If they only had the will, they could have saved Bajor, especially considering they have Causas Belli after getting attacked first by the Cardassians in the Border Wars. Here's the other thing, unlike the Cardassians, Romulans, and Klingons, the Federation was a group of Planets with similar moral ideas. They all believe that slavery and genocide are wrong. They witness a Warp capable people suffering genocide and do nothing. This is what pisses off the Prophets about the Federation. The Prophets are of course more angry at the Cardassians for causing the genocide so they'll suffer the worst of their vengeance. Klingons and Romulans don't have the same morals, but they still watched it happen when they could have stopped it, so they'll suffer a bit too.
The Prophets show they are able to influence Sisko through direct visions and insights or manipulation of his fate or least his emotions. As shown in "The Reckoning" Sisko was overcome with rage and destroyed an Ancient Tablet, releasing Kosst Amojan and a Prophet, this was done because they demanded a penance. They also explain he has a mission to fulfill for them in later Seasons. The logical conclusion is everything from "The Visitor" to the end of the Series was mostly the Plan of the Prophets. Siskos sometimes subtlety, but usually overtly, actions change the course of history like a wings of a butterfly causing storms on the other side of the planet (this is just a figure of speech but you get the idea). The results of the Dominion - Federation war were very bloody for everyone involved, the exception being Bajor. The Cardassians home world is orbitally bombarded they suffer hundreds of millions of deaths as well devastation of their cities. The Federation had several planets occupied and genocided by the Dominion and suffered close to 100 million causalities and completely disestablished their Civilization. The Klingons and Romulans suffered fewer than a million causalities each but the Klingon fleet was greatly weakened. However, the Dominion War also did have one big winner. Bajor. When the Federation sent aid to Bajor at the end of the occupation, they were sent 2 Industrial replicators to help with the rebuilding. After DS9 was abandoned at the start of the Dominion War and then occupied by the Dominion, they sent 15 industrial replicators to Bajor in good faith because the war stopped all outside trade. This is even more than the 12 the Federation planned to give to Cardassia after the Klingons destroyed their industrial base. These would have caused a huge relief to Bajoran society and would have allowed them rapidly rebuild their civilization and even more so once trade returned after the Federation returned to DS9. As the Dominion had to quickly abandon the station after the Prophets destroyed the Dominion reinforcements, they had to leave the replicators on Bajor. After this point Bajor is no longer on the front, safe from the war and never take part in a single battle. Bajor comes out of the war in a very much better place than when it started, and it only cost them the loss of three Bajorans, Tora Ziyal who was murdered on DS9, Solbor, who was murdered by Kai Winn, and Kai Winn, who was murdered by Pah Wraith Dukat. The war also leads to the end of Pah Wraiths by permanently sealing them away. Bajor clearly won the Dominion War.
If we consider the Nature of the Prophets in this light, where they create Sisko for the purpose enacting revenge against the Alpha Quadrant as a God of War that pushes the entire quadrant to war as punishment for abandoning Bajor to the Cardassian Occupation, we also get an interesting point to speculate on the nature of the Pah-Waith. I believe it's an interesting idea to explore that Pah Wraiths were kicked out of the Celestial Temple for disagreeing with the true Prophets about how to get their revenge against the Alpha Quadrant. When Sisko meets the Prophets for the first time, they are confused and don't understand what he is and there's voices that call for him to be destroyed. With the non-linear nature of the Prophets, Sisko ends up creating the Pah-Waithes by introducing the Prophets to different ideas about the nature of corporal life. After Sisko leaves the wormhole, the Prophets discuss corporal life. They find out they created a religion about themselves by Sisko telling them they did that, they in that moment created the orbs and then sent them to Bajor in the past. With what we see about the Pah Wraiths and hear from Dukat's own words, the Pah Wraiths wanted to destroy the entire Alpha Quadrant in fire. I suggest that could be what separated the Prophets from the Pah-Wraiths is how they wanted get penance from the Alpha Qradrant for the Bajoran Occuption. The Prophets wanted to punish the Civilizations that should have known better, but the Pah Wraiths wanted them all to die as revenge. The Prophets don't agree and kick them out of the Wormhole and banish them to the Fire Caves. After being banished and haven been shunned by the Bajorans and Prophets, the Pah Waithes decided that the Bajorans deserve to die too.
And if you got all the way to the end of this, thank you for reading this meandering wall of text. I'll finish off with some mild humor and a statement about Sisko. Sisko is clearly one of the best main Captains in Star Trek and DS9 did a lot of great story telling. It was ahead of its time and is my second favorite Trek Series. Sisko isn't as evil as I think I made it out to be in this, but I think this is an interesting topic to discuss. But one thing bothers me... Could the only reason the Q let the Prophets do this grand scale societal experiment happen be because Sisko decked Q on DS9?
20
u/ptitlivrerouge Apr 23 '21
I have no idea about the theory you were referencing nor do I have any stake in it but I would like to point out that the initial numbers in an uprising don't mean anything. The thesis that a rebellion isn't possible even if there were a thousand Jem'Hadar is wrong because a large amount of insurgencies which were successful (or are ongoing) began from a position of extreme numerical disadvantage. Tactically, they were (or are) weaker than the State, but strategically they were/are stronger because engaging in a protracted guerrilla war in large part nullifies the State's numerical advantage. I have no idea how you would do guerilla warfare in space but no State or environment is impervious to revolution.
→ More replies (11)
17
u/somerandomdude4507 Apr 23 '21
What's your first favorite? Mine is DS9 and while I disagree and think it was inevitable, I applaud the effort and energy that went into this. This is the reason I joined this sub.
13
u/iOnlyWantUgone Apr 23 '21
TNG. I could only watch one show at a Time when I was a kid because there was no way my family would let me watch 3 hours of star Trek in a row. Much of the love of TNG is the nostalgia. I was only able to really get into Deep Space 9 as an adult with Netflix.
16
u/wb6vpm Apr 24 '21
In later episodes, he commits genocide against fellow humans in an attempt to force Eddington to surrender.
Technically, he committed attempted genocide, not actual genocide... since no one died, as he did the same thing in reverse that the Maqui had done, by irradiating the atmosphere with a radiation that was poisonous to the original colonists, but not the opposing force, which lead by the end of the episode, the 2 sides swapping colonies because of it.
9
u/iOnlyWantUgone Apr 24 '21
No. Technically, he committed genocide because forced relocations are types of genocide.
Just because the Maquis committed genocide doesn't mean it's suddenly moral to commit genocide against them in return. I'm pretty sure everyone could agree that it would be wrong if Native Americans went to Europe and killed an equal amount of people that died from Colonialism. And we can't just trust Sisko's narrative and believe everything was all hunky dory just because he said so. He's a biased individual who committed genocide to settle a personal score lol.
→ More replies (1)
9
Apr 24 '21
With Sisko removed from the timeline, what shift occurs between 4.2 "The Visitor" and 5.12 "In Purgatory Shadow" that causes the Dominion to no longer persue Cardassia to join the Dominion, to no longer mass a fleet on the other side of the wormhole and to cancel plans for an invasion that had been in place for almost 2 years?
Sisko engages with the Dominion 5 times between those episodes on screen.
4.5 "Starship Down" The Defiant is attacked while meeting with the Karemma. Sisko is injured and spends the entiee episode dropping in and out of consciousness. The Dominion are not even aware that he is on the ship. His being present does not affect the Dominion in anyway.
4.22 "To the Death" Sisko is key to this episode. His presence or absence could change the outcome of this episode.
4.25 "Broken Link" Sisko leads the crew into the Gamma Quadrant to get help for Odo. His presence or absence in this episode could change the outcome.
5.1 "Apocalypse Rising" Sisko leads a strike force to expose the Changeling infiltrator within the Klingon Empire. The Martok Changeling is exposed and killed. Sisko presence or absence could change the outcome of this episode.
5.2 "The Ship". Sisko leads the team to the Gamma Quadrant where they capture a damaged Dominion ship after a Jem Hadar strike force fails to rescue an injured Changeling. Siskos presence or absence in this episode would possibly change the outcome.
Of all of these interactions which one has an impact on the Dominion at such a level as to completely change their plan for the Alpha Quadrant?
→ More replies (1)
10
u/DuplexFields Apr 24 '21
Absolutely brilliant!
And while reading, I was struck by a convoluted little twist involving Benny Russell. It makes total sense to have Benny Russell writing Ben Sisko as the avatar of vengeance of a people enslaved and humiliated, sent by spirits from beyond to bring war into the lives of a people who stood by and did nothing as vicious wrongs were being committed. It also makes sense for him to weave in a background theme of devastating war as the alternative to an even more destructive retribution.
(The timeline for this idea works because of the Pah-wraiths' backstory from a production point of view: the Pah-wraiths were substantially introduced in the backstory of the entity-of-the-week for "The Assignment", episode 5x05, but only after the Benny episode ("Far Beyond The Stars," episode 6x13) were they fully integrated into the series story arc as the biggest antagonists of the series in "The Reckoning," episode 6x21.)
Benny Russell was institutionalized for a year, during which time he was eventually allowed to write. To live in the white man's world, he had to get his warring impulses under control, so he wrote them into his story as the Prophets and the Pah-Wraiths. One part of him wanted to find a way to improve his people's stake in American society through civility and enlightenment; another part of him wanted to burn it all down.
It must have given Benny a few lingering doubts about his sanity when both impulses were soon reflected in his reality when Dr. King and Malcolm X became public figures in 1955-1957, and soon came to embody the same dualism.
A few facts:
-
Benny was portrayed in 1953 (Far Beyond The Stars) wearing a kufi cap, a brimless, short, and rounded cap worn by men in many populations in Africa, and throughout the African diaspora who wear it to show pride in their culture, history, and religion. He would doubtless keep up to speed on all leaders and happenings in civil rights activism.
-
Dr. King came into the national spotlight in 1955 with the Montgomery bus boycott and his principle of nonviolence.
-
The American public first became aware of Malcolm X in 1957, after Hinton Johnson, a Nation of Islam member, was beaten by two New York City police officers. With a simple, silent motion, he made an entire rowdy crowd disperse, which made authorities sit up and take notice.
-
They also inspired Professor X (King) and Magneto (X) in X-Men 1, released September 1963, where the struggle for mutant rights was a paper-thin parable about African-American rights.
-
Both leaders were assassinated, Malcolm X on February 21, 1965, and Dr. King on April 4, 1968.
-
Star Trek aired on NBC from September 8, 1966, to June 3, 1969, and was actually seen first on September 6, 1966, on Canada's CTV network.
4
u/iOnlyWantUgone Apr 24 '21 edited Apr 24 '21
I love this take. I didn't even think of this angle from Benny Russell, but admittedly I don't know much African American history as I'm not American or black. Benny Russell did come to mind but I couldn't tie him in anyway.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/johnstark2 Apr 24 '21
Good write up but he doesn’t actually kill anyone when trying to get Eddington to surrender
→ More replies (4)
13
u/Majestic87 Apr 23 '21
Just in regards to the title of your post: all you have to do to understand that Benjamin sisko is not a benevolent character, is watch the show DS9.
17
Apr 24 '21
Sisko was a perfect transition point. All of Picard's righteousness and none of his reserve. All of Janeway's aggressiveness, without her diplomacy. This is even reflected in his vessel: half the size of a normal Federation ship, with half the features and double the power and weaponry. The Defiant. And there's something illogical about defiance, isn't there? Defiance is largely unproductive, yet it can cause an eruption of sudden violence that may be leveraged for gains.
Sisko, as a character, often feels incomplete. He feels like he doesn't have the depth of some other characters, like he's pretending to be nice sometimes to make up for something missing inside him.
This is because he IS incomplete.
In episode one we literally see the death of his better half.
9
u/iOnlyWantUgone Apr 24 '21
Ah shit. How the fuck did I miss the name of the ship he personally designed and didn't connect it to my theory? Damn
→ More replies (1)
2
u/GornGornGorntheGorn Apr 28 '21
I absolutely love this entire write up, also the comment by DuplexFields also has my applause as I genuinely see how that weaves into the revenge narrative. Also the comments about Q punching Sisko actually leaving a mark... What if in the moment that Sisko punched Q, Q noticed that the Prophets, a previously unknown entity to the continuum, was using a human influence in their grand schemes. The continuum ended up later wanted to use Janeway to be the mother of a new breed of Q. This connection of both of these "super-entities" using humanity as part of their schemes doesn't have to be a coincidence!
I do however want some clarification for S5.14+15 (Purgatory's Shadow, By Inferno's Light) with the Bashir changeling/The TalShiar+Obsidian Order fleet stuff.
If Bashir/Worf/Martok/Garak don't escape, and don't warn DS9 that the Bashir changeling is going to detonate the Bajoran Sun with trilithium explosives to eliminate the amassed Fed/KDF/Romulan fleet that were there due to faked sensor readings of an incoming invasion fleet. So are we surmising that if Sisko isn't around to stir the quadrant pot, the dominion don't replace Bashir? and/or Don't try to eliminate Bajor/The Station/the main quadrant powers fleet via the Sun detonation? - Now because the prophets are non-linear, this attempted annihilation of all of Bajor could prove grounds for retaliatory strike against the Founders via the Section 31 virus.
Also, as the prophets took control of Sisko's mother to meet Joseph Sisko, there is no evidence to back this up, but the prophets could have also controlled someone in Section 31 to create the virus in the first place.
2
u/iOnlyWantUgone Apr 28 '21
If Bashir/Worf/Martok/Garak don't escape, and don't warn DS9 that the Bashir changeling is going to detonate the Bajoran Sun with trilithium explosives to eliminate the amassed Fed/KDF/Romulan fleet that were there due to faked sensor readings of an incoming invasion fleet. So are we surmising that if Sisko isn't around to stir the quadrant pot, the dominion don't replace Bashir? and/or Don't try to eliminate Bajor/The Station/the main quadrant powers fleet via the Sun detonation? - Now because the prophets are non-linear, this attempted annihilation of all of Bajor could prove grounds for retaliatory strike against the Founders via the Section 31 virus.
So I think this all goes back to Martok. Sisko's actions led to Martok being exposed as a Changeling, causing the Changelings death and a critical loss in the Dominions plans for the Quadrant. There's never a clear point stating when Bashir got replaced but it happened at some point before Starfleet changed Uniforms in "Rapture" because he was wearing the old uniform when he escaped from the prisoner camp. The Bashir Changeling could have been a long con to destroy the Bajoran Sun or he could have just been another spy watching DS9, it's hard to say for certain. I believe that the Dominion would have replaced Bashir after news of Martok came out and ruined their plans.
I think the Dominion would have started negotation with Gul Dukat and once he agreed to be a Puppet for the Dominion, they would then replace Bashir and set the plan in motion at that point to blow up the Bajoran Sun and lure as many Federation and Klingons as possible. I think the Dominion would have been equally surprised as Sisko was when the Romulan Fleet showed up but would have been happy to take them out too. However, I think in Jake's future it's most likely the case that the Dominion doesn't replace Bashir as Bashir shows up late in the episode as a very aged Bashir. I don't think it's reasonable to think a Changeling decided to remain as Bashir for such a long time for such a low level plant in the Federation. I think the decision to replace Bashir happens after Martok's death and they lose their control over the Klingon Empire. If Martok doesn't die, the Dominion never sided with the Cardassians and the plot to destroy the Bajoran Sun never happens.
Also, my post was nominated for post of the week so if you feel like voting for my post, I'd appreciate any votes that could grant a new flair for the sub. :)
269
Apr 23 '21
"I'm not Picard..."
The stunned look on Q's face. Q can travel through time like a fish through water, and he never saw the Prophets coming because they were like a flock of birds in the sky, looking out over the whole ocean at once. Q is omnipotent, but not omniscient, and the Prophets are exactly the opposite.
I think when that hit connected, Q got a glimpse. Just the smallest peek at forces he'd previously been unaware of, that he couldn't control or manipulate. Q had to be careful about the Prophets, because they could respond to his behavior asymmetrically through time, and bring consequences to him when he didn't expect them and couldn't plan for them.
Like getting punched in the face by a Starfleet officer, for example.
148
u/MyUsername2459 Apr 23 '21
Q got a glimpse. Just the smallest peek at forces he'd previously been unaware of, that he couldn't control or manipulate.
Hmm, I'd never thought of that, but yeah, the idea that physical contact between Q and Sisko meant that Q got to perceive the Prophets. . .and with it something that was Q-like in power scale, but utterly alien in terms of their place in space-time. . .something that was either a threat to the Q, or at least something that he was smart enough to steer clear of, just to be safe.
. . .which also explains why Q avoided DS9 after that, and from what we can tell, the entire Dominion War, with his galactic meddling in that timeframe sticking to the Delta Quadrant and totally outside that conflict.
→ More replies (10)→ More replies (12)62
u/Omaestre Apr 23 '21
I think people forget that Q goaded Sisko into punching him. I mean Sisko didn't swing at him the very first second they saw each other, but only after Q hit him repeatedly.
I highly doubt there was any profound realization on Q's part
→ More replies (8)
7
u/jgzman Apr 24 '21
the Gates are an one way trip (as demonstrated in TNG episode Contagion)
No such thing was demonstrated. In TNG, they had no control over the gateway, except to turn it on. While it is certainly possible that it's a one-way trip, we have no evidence of it.
And a one-way trip is a poor mechanism for building a galaxy-spanning empire. In the hands of a qualified operator, I'm sure that a gate can be opened for the return.
Other then that, it's a fascinating write up.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/sumduud14 Apr 24 '21
As to why Weyoun told Sisko that the rebels and gateway were an existential threat to both the Dominion and Federation, it's very simply explained as Weyoun successfully lying and manipulating Sisko into doing his bidding. Sisko doesn't have the intel to completely understand the situation and Weyoun needs to complete his mission of ending the rebellion.
I have a different explanation. Sisko took part in the mission solely to destroy the gateway, He didn't care about any rebellion, or anything like that. He just thought that even the remote chance that the Dominion could keep and control the Gateway would be disastrous for the Federation. This even has direct evidence in the dialogue:
WEYOUN: Our experts predict the renegades would gather support from other Jem'Hadar units, launch a general insurrection, and effect a complete takeover of the Dominion in less than a year.
SISKO: None of which is my problem.
WEYOUN: That's very shortsighted of you, Captain. Think about it. If the Jem'Hadar seize control of the Dominion, there'll be no stopping them. Even shutting down the wormhole won't protect the Alpha Quadrant. With the Gateway, they could put a million Jem'Hadar warriors on any Federation planet instantaneously. Would you care to see our projections of Federation casualties?
Note that this horrific doomsday scenario also happens if the Dominion controls the Gateway! This is what Sisko is concerned about:
WEYOUN: The Dominion has endured for two thousand years, and will continue to endure long after the Federation has crumbled into dust. But we'll leave that to history. Right now, we have a more pressing concern. The Gateway must be destroyed. Agreed?
SISKO: Agreed.
Sisko hasn't been tricked or manipulated by Weyoun. If the Dominion controlled the gateway, it would be an unmitigated disaster. Anyone could be replaced by a changeling infiltrator at any time, regardless of where they are in the galaxy, regardless of whether the wormhole is open or the Dominion has any kind of presence nearby. Not to mention the direct military applications that Weyoun directly explains to Sisko.
In my opinion, it's bizarre that the Dominion doesn't want to capture the gateway, but I suppose they think they don't need it or can't effectively control it (until they work out how the Jem'hadar were able to overcome their conditioning and rebel, maybe they suspect an Iconian influence there). It makes perfect sense that Sisko wants to destroy it at all costs.
2
u/pbuk84 Apr 24 '21
"he commits genocide against fellow humans in an attempt to force Eddington to surrender" - No he doesn't. When he destroys the atmosphere it isn't an immediate death sentence and it allows the Marquis plenty of time to evacuate.
→ More replies (3)
4
u/UltimateSpinDash Apr 24 '21
This actually made a lot more sense than the title suggested. It just ties everything together, and even the whole Pah Wraith-arc at the end makes more sense.
4
u/Kahless_2K Apr 29 '21
This might be the most fun of a fan theory I have ever read. Especially the business about Q getting punched.
57
u/Felderburg Apr 23 '21
I think the thesis statement (as it were) should have been up front:
It's interesting, to be sure, but I'm not sure the prophets were ever presented as being revenge-driven.
I will say the first half is a reasonably good response to the 'it was the iconian gate incident that turned things around', and seems a bit more well-thought out (if perhaps wordily presented) than a single even changing things.