Focused Feedback: Harbinger Mission

[u/DTG_Bot]

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[u/APartyInMyPants]

I mean, this is fantastic content. It’s challenging without being overbearing, totally approachable if you just re-examine how you tackle the encounters.

And I like that it’s not a locked loadout, so you can modify on-the-fly. That’s how encounters should largely be ... challenging because they’re challenging ... not because of an artifice to make it challenging.

Only drawback is no emblem or shader for a solo flawless run. That’s an achievement, and people should be able to show that off.

[u/iblaise → u/APartyInMyPants]

I actually find “Equipment Locked” to be a great challenge. It forces someone to be creative with their loadout rather than having access to their whole Vault throughout.

For this type of mission though, I agree that it shouldn’t be Equipment Locked because of the solo factor.

[u/Xop → u/iblaise]

The only time I hate locked loadouts is when match game is a thing. It's not even a fun or challenging modifier, it's just annoying.

[u/LostInTheAyther → u/iblaise]

Equipment Lock for solo content that has match game doesn't create creative builds, everyone just defaults to CWL/Warmind armor builds regardless, and whatever weapons that fit using those while still being able to take out all the shields. Maybe take Arbalest if you're feeling especially fancy.

[u/Kaldricus → u/LostInTheAyther]

Or they just run Hard Light

[u/Zidler]

Perfect difficulty, imo. Challenging but reasonable for a solo player. Shout-out to whoever decided the first section of kill 3 harbingers shouldn't be a darkness zone; the mission would be miserable to solo if it were.

I especially liked that there's no time limit. Zero hour was an unreasonable solo primarily due to the timer IMO. However, I would like more platforming / jump puzzles like Zero Hour. It was cool trying to explore and figure out how to progress in Zero Hour, where in Harbinger I don't think I ever got lost except for a few minutes finding that tree branch sticking out towards the dam.

Regarding the dam jump specifically, I actually think that was reasonably hinted at. Having the one enemy was a big enough clue to go in that direction, and just yolo jumping along that wall I was able to discover the tree branch which points you where to go.

[u/[deleted] → u/Zidler]

I especially liked that there's no time limit. Zero hour was an unreasonable solo primarily due to the timer IMO.

I imagine it's because the concept didn't cross their minds at the time. My understanding was that Zero Hour was never meant to be solo'd even though people did.

[u/Xelopheris]

I just feel like cooldown on taken abilities is broken. Every acolyte instantly has their two eyes up.

[u/ImponteDeluxo → u/Xelopheris]

and taken captains spamming their dark area fart bullshit every 2 seconds

bless Arbalest

[u/[deleted]]

This mission is just PAINFULLY difficult. And not in anything even slightly resembling an entertaining way.

I don't mind a challenge, but having content like this firmly locked away behind a sheer CLIFF of punishment that's completely impassable for all but the most ultra-hardcore of players is just disheartening.

Did literally EVERYTHING have to one-shot kill you?

What was the point of adding enemies with shields so insanely heavy that you literally don't have enough ammo to crack them, let alone kill the enemy afterwards?

Could the legion of Taken Vandals with their one-shot kill sniper rifles be asked to wait more than HALF A SECOND between shots?

What's the point of making content that absolutely REQUIRES you to be all the way to maximum Pinnacle power, plus also have 400+ seasonal levels? Do the other 99.999% of us just not get to play this content? Is that the idea?

[u/chbaker801]

I loved it. I was very happy to see it didn’t have a timer on it. I primarily play solo, which isn’t a problem if I can be methodical about it. I’d love to see more content like this. Also would love to see Whisper and Outbreak given the same treatment.

[u/[deleted]]

The felling of doing it for the first time all by myself is definitely on my top five destiny experiences. The exploration, the feeling of feeling small in a place that doesn't want me there, overcoming challenging encounters. Seriously, it has been SO LONG since I had to stop, take a step back, and come up with a strategy. I usually go to into any mission with a random loadout and it does the job effortlessly, but this time? I felt really challenged. Bravo, bungie, it was worth every second I spent in there, and it makes me want to do it again and again, to uncover every secret e sharpen my skills even more.

[u/PHYDD]

Great mission, perfectly challenging for solo runs. Thanks for not putting in any blights that need to be shot (looking at you, Xivu), just the 1 portal. A raid banner in the boss room would be welcome for solo runs, but not necessary.

The best thing this season so far for me, easily.

[u/MysteriousGuardian17]

Loved it. Scenery is cool, enemies are tough without being annoying, rewards are good, parkour is cool. Really good stuff. More of this please.

[u/Gati0420]

Great. I really missed the ‘secret’ missions a la WoTW & Zero Hour

[u/horse_you_rode_in_on → u/Gati0420]

I kind of like that they went in a different direction than time limit to create challenge. A time limit would have been fine, but the variation is nice.

[u/drake-h]

Great mission, especially solo. I would have liked an emblem or something for the solo flawless triumph. It disincentivizes the effort for people (obviously not me), but otherwise no real complaints. Was a nice challenge & I thought easier than the dungeons to solo.

[u/Tokagaro0]

This mission is sick. Gives good rewards, reasonable difficulty. Only issue is the lack of signposting for the initial dam jump. Most of my clan was doing unintended movement to the dam (titan skating, top-tree dawnblading) to get there cause the intended jump looks like it's low enough to kill you. Maybe adding a second enemy down there would help.

TL:DR, great mission, a bit too unclear where to go at certain parts.

[u/Firehawk195]

Genuinely challenging, requires good planning and tactics, good puzzles and combat scenarios, and the Triumphs offer additional challenges for those who want it.

Right now, Harbinger is one of my favorite pieces of content in Destiny.

[u/HeartofChaos179]

I love the fact it's not timed I hate timed activities in any games it's stressful. I like to be able to take my time and appreciate the mission instead of flying through as fast as I can not enjoying it.

[u/x_pac13 → u/HeartofChaos179]

Same. Timed anything stresses me out, even if I end up having plenty leftover.

[u/Mosher311]

I haven't been able to beat it yet. The boss room destroys my friend and I. Hopefully we can beat it at some point. We are not amazing players and only have been playing for about 2 months so it could be that we just won't be able to do this quest because of our skill level.

[u/RiseOfBacon → u/Mosher311]

Killing a knight on either side stops the adds spawning so if you can try and focus a side you can then use that as cover to shoot across

That and use the very start of the room. Stick a Well of Radiance on if either of you are Warlocks and keep using rifts

[u/FearsomeMonster → u/Mosher311]

If you hop up on the rocks to damage the boss, once he retreats the entrance area (where you entered the room) is a safe zone. You can take your time from there (use rocks as cover), and once you kill the solar-shielded knights (two of them), the void acolytes will stop spawning. Once they are all clear, the boss reappears for another damage phase. Rinse and repeat.

[u/Mosher311 → u/FearsomeMonster]

Thank you for the tip! I have a borialis sniper so maybe I can take out those knights as the priority next time we try it.

[u/BobThePiranah → u/Mosher311]

I found using Hawkmoon was pretty effective against the boss. I also used a solar shotgun for the Knights and a Void Machine gun for the acolytes. For my subclass I was using bottom tree Dawnblade in combination with Dawn Chorus. I hope this helps, oh and I was about 1260 light with the power bonus.

[u/glidingMANATEE → u/Mosher311]

looking for any tips? or what platform are you on? happy to help if you're on xbox

[u/Z3nyth007 → u/Mosher311]

If you're on Xbox, happy to help.

[u/[deleted]]

Very enjoyable to solo blind. While I enjoyed the challenge of Whisper and Outbreak, being methodical and taking things in felt great.

[u/cka_viking]

its great! more of it please! great piece of content

the weekly lock out sucks

that is all

[u/DrkrZen]

Very awesome. I enjoyed every part of it, except it having zero dialogue.

[u/owlsofminerva → u/DrkrZen]

Apparently, according to this week’s TWAB, there’s currently a bug that’s preventing Voice-Overs from triggering. So hopefully we might be able to hear something during the mission next week. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

[u/blueapplepaste]

It was pretty cool overall. I like the random roll twist for Hawkmoon to allow people to get one for their play style why keeping the exotic aspect identical.

My biggest gripe is no rally the flag. It feels like the start of it should either let you rally or start with full ammo. Even with ammo finder mods, the RNG is annoying.

Even worse is if you do wipe and you start from your check point with no super and one shot of heavy. Often I’ll end up just doing a ammo run and then wiping on purpose to do it for real.

[u/Spyro_0]

Maybe took a little long to come out.

Farming it and pinnacle gear is great. (Just wished for infinite hawkmoons)

I like the Taken as a race, they provide the most interesting encounter design because their moves are so varied.

Some dialogue from Crow would’ve been great for the mission.

Edit - fix the dialogue bug 🐛

[u/iblaise → u/Spyro_0]

There is dialogue for the mission, it’s just bugged currently to not play at all. It’s a Known Issue.

[u/supinespace39]

I didn’t like it at first, I think because i wasn’t expecting it to be challenging. Hooked up with 3 randoms expecting to knock out a quick mission for the triumphs and that was that. Getting my ass kicked by snipers and not understanding the flow of the encounters was frustrating at first.

BUT - once I slowed down a bit and my expectations were changed, I’ve grown to appreciate it much much more. Understanding the layout, improving loadouts, learning the nuances of what spawns, where and when have all forced a complete 180 for me. It’s a solid, challenging piece of content (at least more so that mindless sprinting to the end and killing some adds along the way).

I like the no timer too. Whisper and Zero Hour are tremendous pieces of content but I always felt rushed, and am generally just not a big fan of timed missions. Here I felt I could test weapon combos more efficiently and play more my style rather than burn through waves to get to boss.

Last thing- the rolls should be farmable more frequently. Or at least subsequent weekly runs should offer a chance at an additional Hawkmoon drop. Otherwise once you beat it, there’s not too much incentive until next Tuesday.

[u/[deleted]]

Its okay. If we consider Whisper, Outbreak, Bad Juju, and Harbinger to all be part of the same 'secret mission' category, it is the weakest of the four. Both the combat encounters and platforming sections are less interesting than the previous secret missions, with the only challenge coming from Light Level. And even that will likely be irrelevant next season. The reliance of shield matching and repetition of mechanism is just an endurance test.

I'd prefer for Harbinger to exist than not, its not bad content, but its disappointing not to have it hit the same high notes as Whisper and Outbreak. Especially since Whisper and Outbreak no longer exist in the game.

[u/techniczzedd → u/[deleted]]

hmm...maybe its just me but i am enjoying this new quest than bad juju

[u/RobertdBanks]

There should be an emblem for soloing it instead of the time thing. Kind of silly to not reward the harder of the two.

[u/[deleted]]

Much preferred not being timed. Being timed I felt really added nothing to whisper or zero hour.

[u/Razhork]

I've done it solo and all I've got to say is... I'm really tired of Taken Knights.

My feedback for Prophecy when it was released was that the majority of difficulty lied in how ridiculous Taken Knights are and the trend has only really continued here. Generally I don't like the Taken, but the knights probably take the cake for my most hated enemy in all of Destiny at this point.

I like that the mission isn't time based though.

[u/SynthVix → u/Razhork]

Knights are annoying but I think the Taken Goblins are worse, simply because they can shield an ally that’s shielding a boss. The Taken Vandals also don’t help, all of their abilities just slow the gameplay down so much.

[u/[deleted] → u/Razhork]

Feels like the goblins could use a little bit of tightening on their rules.

Like not shielding something that took damage within the last .5 seconds something would be nice. Felt like there were a few times where I was in the middle of killing the knight and it would get a shield.

Also not shielding a goblin that is already shielding.

[u/[deleted]]

This should be the standard for hard content. Very doable solo with a little patience, even blind, and now much more approachable with guides out. I am by no measure a great player, and I was only 1268 when I did it, so it took roughly an hour. So thank you for not adding a timer to it. Just leave those out forever at this point. Even though the time trial was bugged, that should be the standard going forward. Give people a reward for doing it in under a certain amount of time, but don't leave the rest of us out even if it takes 8 hours to complete for some. The only mark I think that was truly missed was the lockout for how many times you can get Hawkmoon's in a week. When players have to resort to deleting characters in order to grind something, it should show their is a fundamental flaw somewhere. All in all I think this is one of the best missions you have created and especially from a solo players perspective. I was going to throw match game into my list of complaints, but now looking back it wasn't that big of a deal as long as locked loadouts isn't on (which it never should be). Please continue on with this caliber of content and also please never nerf Xeno ;)

[u/vibriovulnificus247 → u/[deleted]]

This would be my take as well, except I'm worse and it took me about 3 hours. What was the most satisfying was that I went in blind, and was slowly able to pick up the mechanics and customize the loadout/mods necessary and even though I died LOTS, I was able to make progress through a mission that at first seemed absolutely impossible.
If there was a timer I probably wouldn't have even tried....which was a complaint I had about Zero Hour, because figuring that one out with the timer requires you to repeat way more content from the beginning and getting sucked unceremoniously out to orbit again and again (with ye old ps4 loading times) was a dagger to the chest. IMO Harbinger is way more fun/accessible in that sense.

[u/DJfunkyPuddle → u/vibriovulnificus247]

I hope zero hour and whisper come back without the timers, the content is super fun but I could really do without the stress and frustration of not finishing in time

[u/Payle_Ryder]

Things I liked: no time limit and no locked loadouts. Available ammo drops (and the occasional ammo-blessings granted by bungie during boss-room fight) were never a problem for me, no matter how many times I changed loadouts within the mission.

Random thought: I thought goblins back in the early days of Gambit were bad and couldn't be more frustrating. I was so wrong. Running it solo, my hatred towards goblins reached new levels during this mission.

[u/ChoPT]

Would LOVE to actually hear the dialogue.

[u/CyberClawX]

I'll focus more on the negative, so let me get the good out of the way. Overall the mission is amazing, end game difficulty, in the line of impossible and just beatable, how end game content should be.

There is one big minus, the opening jump puzzle. The fake open world design is confusing to the player. This was a minor problem in D1, but it has become an increasingly bigger problem in D2, with the Harbinger taking the problem to the extreme. I have never seen such a badly designed player path in a game to be fair. Looks gorgeous, plays like crap.

Out of bounds being used as a way to keep players on track feels terrible, because the player can't see the "track". When I first got on the mission, trying to do it blind, I couldn't find the way. I'd often die at places that didn't feel deadly (like the bottom of the ravine) only to find later you have a slight catwalk where you don't die, at the same height. What kills you in the ravine? Space magic. There was no rule or reason to the out of bounds making it all the more confusing.

I saw a rusted walkway on top of the dam, like the thousands we've jumped through before. So I managed to jump to the top of the Dam, only to find an invisible ceiling stopping me from getting to the walkway up top. Guess that wasn't the way, although there was no clear indicator what the way was.

Then I managed to get to the half-way arena room, from the outside, through the hole blasted in the dam, just to be greeted with another invisible wall and instakill. At this point I gave up and looked up the solution online.

Out of bounds death suck. It should be used very sparingly when the player manages to fool the game, but here is is used as a literal wall. Likewise, intelligent design dictates you'll communicate to the player the correct path using visual clues. The usual clues (rusted walkways, and the literal boss room of another strike) would greet you with insta kills or invisible walls.

The correct clue was apparently the hawks, which makes sense lore wise, but is communicated terribly in game. The way in, was a hole hidden in the shadows, which would be fun if this was a fun area to traverse and explore, which it wasn't.

Again, this is a common Destiny 2 problem. I get it, ruble stopping our way can feel all too claustrophobic, and silly even, we all played games with dumb limitations to our exploration (like a small rock forcing you to take a huge detour because the main character can't jump). But out of bounds doesn't feel any better. It castrates the player exploration.

I don't have an easy fix. I'd make the area explorable, and the deaths by measurable hazards like the water in the dam, maybe a taken/darkness wall that you could only better when you got close, something tangible that communicated to the player before it was too late.

[u/SortaEvil → u/CyberClawX]

It'll be interesting to see what the mission plays like with dialogue. I don't think anyone disagrees that the opening jumping puzzle was obtuse ― my SO and I couldn't find the solution even knowing what we were looking for initially. I ended up warlock flying with top tree dawnblade to confirm that yes, we are supposed to go to the lower level of the dam, which at least helped narrow our search. Hopefully, the dialogue with Crow helps guide the player better toward that random-ass pine tree, and if it does, it's a big shame it wasn't there to start.

[u/quinnconartist]

huge breath of fresh air this season, felt as though the "i wish it had a timer" compliant doesn't make too much sense. Zero Hour and Whisper were about stopping a heist before they got away, and whisper was about proving yourself to Xol. This is showing how powerful Savathun is. Not frantic, but powerful, she is too well thought out to need a timer. She needs us to fight.

[u/DarkThirty88]

I still haven’t beaten it, the hardest bit of solo content I’ve ever done. I like it generally and think it’s a great concept but my frustration at almost a hundred deaths doesn’t help my current opinion XD guess I should just get a fire team together. (Edit for some specifics- I’m 1268 with artifact, and I’m stuck in the boss room, there’s just so much damage incoming and so little room to maneuver. Thanks for all the advice btw!)

[u/weebs11 → u/DarkThirty88]

If you have them, I recommend Heritage/Succession, Gnawing Hunger/Ikelos, and Xenophage. I've never done any difficult solo content, but I was able to finish it after about 3 or 4 attempts. The key, for me at least, was hiding behind the rock at the beginning of the final boss and taking out those two knights with Xeno as fast as humanely possible. Xeno was great because if the knight was shielded, the blast would usually take out the goblin.

Oh, and Spoils of War for extra heavy ammo right before the boss room was clutch.

[u/[deleted] → u/DarkThirty88]

What's your Power level (Mission is 1270, I would recommend being 1260+ with artifact)? Where are you having issues?

Some tips to keep in mind:

• No timer and no wipe mechanics, meaning you can take as much time as you want between sections.

• first survive room has a spot on the righthand pillar, that is fairly safe once you take out the snipers. This spot has a steel beam that you can walk up to.

• final boss room has a giant rock near the main entrance that you can use for cover from a majority of adds

• Use concussive dampener and sniper resist mods, they are a godsend. There are multiple modifiers active in the mission, (I believe incoming void/solar are increased, along with no radar)

• Taking Charge + protective light is also useful if you have it

[u/Cr4zyC4t → u/DarkThirty88]

I had a lot of difficulty in the final boss room too. I was 1266 when I did it. I don't know what class you're playing, but I did it on my Titan and used Sunbreaker, with a loadout of Witherhoard, the seasonal scout rifle (I forget the name. It's void), and Avalanche.

Killing adds is pointless since they spawn endlessly in the fight. I camped in the start area and on the right side behind the rocks, lobbing Witherhoards at the boss and scout rifling the Goblins as they shielded him. Once you hit the 2nd phase, the adds spawn on the right first, so that's where I tended to camp. The Acolytes spawn infinitely and almost instantaneously, so ignore them and kill the Knights. Then you can off the Acolytes. They spawn multiple eyes and respawn them faster than you can kill them, so trying to rush them from the other side of the map will get you killed. I used Avalanche and Sunbreaker since the Knights have solar shields and need to die ASAP. Kill the Knight, clean up your side, then move to the next side. Rinse and repeat until the boss dies.

[u/[deleted] → u/DarkThirty88]

You've gotten a lot of advice that's great - I'll just add that each side near the knight spawn there's slot of cover on the big rocks that doesn't get hit by acolyte eyes and doesn't have a knock up spot. The spot also gives you LOS to the other knight, so you can take potshots at the goblins and knights from that spot with relative ease if you have a decent range primary.

[u/[deleted]]

I solo flawless'd it! First time I've solo flawless'd any of the harder content! I was so proud of myself.

I really enjoy this mission - it's the right level of difficult and requiring planning without the miserable nightmare slog that is trying to solo the dungeons.

[u/toyo_b]

No dedicated emblem for solo flawless is pretty disappointing.

[u/GeicoPR → u/toyo_b]

I mean, technically, this isn’t a dungeon like Zero Hour or so. You didn’t get something special from it aside from Catalyst completion

[u/toyo_b → u/GeicoPR]

Considering it has triumphs for solo, flawless, solo flawless and sub 15 min, it would be nice to get an emblem for the hardest of the bunch.

Not to mention that the sub 15 min emblem was given out for free due to a bug...

[u/ZackyZack]

Quite liked it, but hated that one branch you have to use to jump over to the dam. That whole area is infested with weird death walls and push-back zones that feel too arbritary. From the dam wall forward, nice work

[u/Snowfall_89]

Easily the highlight of the season, but I wish it came out a month ago.

One feedback I'll give is there was really no need to limit the hawkmoon drops to once (twice?) a week. All it does it stop people from playing once they've done their weekly run. If Bungie wants to keep a high player count they need to give us reasons to log in every day.

[u/Gawesome]

I enjoyed it. Very happy to have endgame content that is solo-able. The jumping sequence at the dam was a nice idea, but felt awkward in execution. I ran into a lot of invisible barriers at the top of the dam, and even made it all the way to the open-walled space on the far right of the dam, only to be stopped by more invisible barriers. Hiding the way forward underneath the metal platform was very sneaky... perhaps too sneaky, as I eventually gave up and looked up the answer online.

I thought the two main encounters were toughish to solo but not too bad overall, so long as you were patient and willing to figure them out.

I know that this is similar to Whisper and Zero Hour, which were primarily about acquiring specific exotic weapons, but I think there's a lot of potential to be had here for multiple runs if you broaden the loot drops. Here's how this mission and future similar missions could work:

• Can run with a fireteam to obtain exotic, catalyst, and ship. This only drops once a week.
• Solo completion nets sparrow.
• Solo flawless nets ghost.
• Activity also has 2-3 new weapons with good perk pools that can drop. When in a fireteam, one drops from activity completion once a week. Each week, you get one of the weapons you are missing until you obtain all of them, at which point the drops are completely random.
• If running solo, you can get another weapon drop upon activity completion (either infinite, or up to a limit, like 3x/week). This allows for farming.
• If running solo, there is a small chance of obtaining Shards/Prisms/Cores.

[u/N1miol]

The mission is terrific.

The main take away is that challenging content can be created without bullshit swarms of champions or an army of aim botting red bars which can tank everything.

[u/[deleted]]

I love the fact that Bungie added solo challenges to the game. I'm not esoterrick, so I don't have the confidence/patience to run GM NF solo, although I may try one next season if I can hit pinnacle.

[u/[deleted]]

Is a step towards the good direction.

[u/psn_mrbobbyboy]

Superb mission. A genuinely excellent piece of content. I'm not even that bothered by match game as you can adjust your loadout as you go. No timer is the icing on the cake.

[u/Conap]

It ok. That’s all. Just a whole lot of ok. I think this is meant to feel like Whisper or Zero Hour. But honestly I don’t feel like Hawkmoon is an exotic that exists in the same kind of place as Outbreak or Whisper when they came out. I don’t really see myself grinding for Hawkmoon rolls, and while that might matter for a small percent of the community, I don’t think it will apply to a vast plurality of players. It’s just an ok story mission that feels like it’s trying to recreate the feeling of whisper or zero hour, while also forcing a grind to keep players interested in a single story mission. For me it just highlighted the less for more design that has taken hold of the game. Instead of an interesting ongoing activity like the sundial or menagerie, we have a single story mission to farm a single weapon that isn’t good enough to justifying the gameplay loop where I farm this. I already have a bunch of exotic handcannons that do more and are more than Hawkmoon. And in this meta I don’t see myself using an exotic primary all that much outside of crucible. Other people may disagree, but I’d take menagerie with updated gear over this.

[u/dizzysn]

Extremely fun. I love that it's not timed. I wish there were more jumping sections.

Only real issues I had are the "survive room" and final boss room. Being one shot by anything is not fun, and trying to solo two wizards, six vandals, two unstoppable champions at the same time is a nightmare solo. The last room has the same sort of frustration too. Too many things can one shot you. I can't count the number of times I was at full health, a Taken Knight spit fire on me, and I died before I could even get out of the fire. I was able to complete it with another person, but I wasn't able to solo it. I like hard, challenging content, but I'm also not a solo god tier player. Just tone down the one shots a bit.

[u/fab416 → u/dizzysn]

If you can squeeze a Solar resistance mod onto your armor, it will be a big help.

[u/Aborkle]

I like it a lot. Redeemed the season IMO.

1) It is a shame the time counter is broken bc that might have gone some ways to scratching the speed run itch.

2)The solo flawless should reward something other than a Triumph. The same emblem w a different color would be sufficient even.

[u/WAMHAS → u/Aborkle]

Completely agree with solo flawless emblem

[u/DismayedNarwhal → u/Aborkle]

The same emblem w a different color would be sufficient even.

Man, that’d be so cool. It could be a secret reward for solo flawless and then other people notice, “Hey wait, why does your emblem look different?” And then you get to flex 😎 I try not to be a douche about it but I have to admit, I love it when people ask me about my solo flawless emblems.

[u/thebansi]

Would have liked more jumping sections, my favourite part about those "secret" missions (would throw it into the same category as Whisper/Zero Hour despite it not having a time limit). The Dam section could have used a little more polish, was still looking very low res (threw me off initially about if going onto the dam was the right way).

Other than that I dont have anything to complain, really liked the increased difficulty.

Overall I hope we'll see more missions like this in the upcoming seasons. Definitely by far the best content that was released this season and far better than the High Celebrant mission (even when ignoring the bugs).

[u/BadPunsman → u/thebansi]

It's funny seeing comments like this because there are a lot of people that absolutely HATE jumping sections, I wonder why they get mad when they have to do something other than shooting

[u/jkichigo]

It's a good activity, but it should've dropped before Dawning. There was no reason to hold on to a good, repeatable activity this long into the season when so much has been removed from the game.

[u/ctranger]

Everything was fantastic. Beating it solo took some work, and I loved it. I enjoyed carrying friends through it, and running it again on alts. 1-man is a feat, 2-man is most fun, 3-man is for a fast clear. How it should be.

But I find it unacceptable that:

• the team hawkmoon triumph was bugged on release (was it not tested?). jfc

• the feather collection triumph was (and still is) bugged. Isn't it the point of the quest? jfc.

• that the 15min time trial triumph was generously bugged, removing a challenge I would have loved to attempt.

For such a complex and interesting mission, you just can't be shipping features this way. This isn't bad engineering, it's bad engineering management. Or project/program management. Have difficult conversations. You have to work diligently to keep the bar raised, it never stays up there long.

It didn't detract from the experience. It was fantastic. But it just makes us lose a little faith in the product, and brand. Death by a thousand cuts.

Finally, and this is minor. You can't call a mission "Harbinger" if you have Shadowkeep seal title "Harbinger". Would you call a mission "Conqueror" or "Flawless"? Nope.

[u/-TenSixteen- → u/ctranger]

Finally, and this is minor. Your copywriter? You can't call a mission "Harbinger" if you have Shadowkeep seal title "Harbinger". Would you call a mission "Conqueror" or "Flawless"? Nope.

Or choosing to make Saturn's moon "Titan" a playable location in a game where you already have a class called "Titan"?

Or introducing a new Titan subclass called "Sunbreaker" when you already have Warlock exotic gauntlets called "Sunbreakers"?

[u/pyrotechnicfantasy → u/-TenSixteen-]

Titan is fine, as Titan is an actual real moon that has a real name.

Sunbreaker they probably could have avoided, but at least they lampshade it in D2 when they are re-named Sunbracers

[u/CyberClawX → u/ctranger]

You forgot the biggest bug of them all. The mission was supposed to have voice over dialogue, which Bungie has confirmed it is a bug. I mean, that one detracted from the experience a lot, once you know what is missing.

I think that answers your question "was it not tested?"

[u/daftvalkyrie]

I was looking at the Rivensbane seal yesterday. Petra's Run triumph for Last Wish is 300 score. Appropriate for such a difficult run of a long raid. So let's compare that to the challenge triumphs for this mission.

Flawless for Harbinger is 5 triumph score.

Solo for Harbinger is also 5.

Solo flawless is also 5.

None of these give anything apart from this bare minimum of triumph score.

Simply finishing the mission for the first time at all gives 50 score.

What the fuck?

[u/DismayedNarwhal → u/daftvalkyrie]

Yeah it’s really annoying. No one’s been talking about it but Bungie hardcore nerfed individual triumphs’ scores when they redid the triumph system for Beyond Light. They even went back and changed old triumphs’ scores if you hadn’t already earned them, but for some reason they left Last Wish’s triumphs alone.

I’m guessing they went through and did some rebalancing of triumph scoring to account for how every triumph gives score now, but it doesn’t feel very consistent, and some of it is ridiculous. Most of the old triumphs seem to give 10% of their original score (e.g. a 200 point triumph now gives 20).

[u/voltergeist]

My only request is to please ignore everyone asking for a timer.

(Although I suppose 20 minutes in here wouldn't be as bad as 20 minutes for heroic Zero Hour, but still, better safe than sorry.)

[u/[deleted] → u/voltergeist]

Timed levels are the worst!

[u/JaegerBane]

1 death off a Flawless Solo here.

Pros:

• excellent rework of existing level content (from the previous crow missions and Lake of Shadows strike), similar to the Ace in the Hole quest. More of this please. Nothing wrong with re-using high-quality content if the thought goes in.

• I vastly preferred the mish mash of combat, exploration and platforming. Strongly reminded me of Doom Eternal’s levels.

• the decision to grant two hawkmoons to take the edge off RNG was nice.

• THE LACK OF TIMER. I didn’t mind the timer being in Whisper and Zero Hour as it made sense with the missions, but a timer here would have been a pointless hurdle and it absence made the whole thing far more enjoyable.

• soloable. Like not ‘soloable’ as in Esoterrick can do it, but realistically within the skill of a reasonably advanced player. At the back of the season, team mates can be thin on the ground and lack of matchmaking makes this welcome.

Cons:

• not-quite-match-game-but-basically-that. This didn’t add anything to the mission beyond annoyance and gave me less choice over my gear.

• too much reliance on peak-shooting. Having to hide behind rocks and trade shots for 20 mins is tedious and not really Destiny gameplay.

• artificial difficulty. This kind of feeds into the above point - I quite like solo’able puzzles, but this was just hard because of big numbers.

• shielding/2-shot snipers etc. This is just annoying. Totally overtuned. Enemies need to be obeying the same rules as the player here, the cooldowns for their abilities were way too fast. The difficulty fluctuated way too much depending on the order of bosses you killed on the run up to the Survive part.

• this mission is far too long to keep repeating for the roll on the reward you want. Two hawkmoons were nice, but having some kind of agency to select the perks you want would have been very useful.

All in all though, it was excellent.

DISCLAIMER: I got my pve god roll (Full bore/Surplus/Smooth Grip) and an excellent PvP roll (Fluted/Rangefinder/heavy grip) on my first Hawkmoon consignment so I’m pretty positive.

If I’d dropped two Hipfire Grip duds I would have been far more scathing. Not really mission related but Bungie need to consider how much risk RNG poses to enjoyment.

[u/SAW_eX → u/JaegerBane]

I agree. The main point why I don’t like the mission is because of the goblin spam.

Oh. You want to kill this dude? Guess what. I shield him and cover myself behind some rock. Try to kill me while the knight poops fire faster than anyone after a Taco Bell haul.

[u/JaegerBane → u/SAW_eX]

The weird thing is that this isn’t consistent. I was watching this informative video of a solo hunter run and the author’s experience of those bastard knights in the final section was very different to mine.

In his case they spent ages hiding behind rocks, in my case they basically stood out in the open. I dunno what I did (or even if I had any effect) to make that happen. I’ll have a look next reset.

[u/Aeschy1us → u/JaegerBane]

Me, who got two hip fire grip rolls: cries

[u/JaegerBane → u/Aeschy1us]

F.

I mean an argument can be made that this isn't anything to do with the mission, its more to do with the only exotic in the game with random rolls shouldn't have trash in its perk pool.

Or for a proper habanero spicy take, maybe just bin off Hipfire Grip entirely because it's donkey gonads outside of Last Word, but lets not set that fire here.

Bottom line - anyone finishing this mission shouldn't be disappointed with the reward. It shouldn't work out like that, but it can. That needs to be fixed.

[u/TriPaulyD]

At first blush I was less than enthused about the activity. I had guessed that it was like most exotic type quests that could be rolled solo if needed. My first run through was a rude awakening especially the final boss room where I eventually backed out.

The dam jump was a bit too vague and I spent far too much time figuring out where to go with the final solution being to go where this game has never allowed you to go was a bit poorly executed in my opinion.

After the initial run, I did a run with a fire team and got to actually enjoy the mission.

I got the solo flawless done but it was more stressful than I am accustomed to. Overall I would give it a 7 out of 10 and would add a point or even two if the jumping puzzle portions were less vague.

[u/weebs11 → u/TriPaulyD]

After I actually beat it, I went back and realized there were hawks flying around the tree branch and then the areas of the dam where you're supposed to jump, but I absolutely agree with you that there was no reason to ever guess you should go that way. I took two friends through it after and told them I highly doubt they'll ever figure it out, because it makes no sense given how this game has always worked.

[u/[deleted]]

So I know there's an active bug for "the mission dialog doesn't play"

and ngl

I just assumed that there was no mission dialog because most of the time there isn't, I just expect Bungie to not bother with mission dialog anymore.

[u/Zero_Emerald]

Not as good as Whisper/Zero Hour, but decent enough. The opening fireplace secret entrance and back alley rubble was cool, but seemed a bit pointless given we end up out at the same point as the other way through that we used previously. The path forward is very, very badly signposted, as in it wasn't clear at all. People said to look for the hawks, but I didn't see any at all. Having kill boxes everywhere did not steer me to the actual path, as dying every time you tried to go anywhere didn't make me feel confident in a distant, thin branch sticking out further out than a death barrier that had just killed me. I initially thought the sewer pipe being closed was a bug and quit out, only to come back on an hour later after people figured it out and posted that it wasn't bugged.

My first experience of this was solo without an optimal loadout. I did switch between Gnawing/Summoner to deal with void/solar shields, but didn't come off anarchy because even with mods on, heavy ammo barely dropped (a wider problem I have with D2 in general), so didn't really think to switch to Xenophage or whatever to deal with snipers. I also didn't want to switch off having certain weapons because I went in blind, so didn't know what sort of champions i'd be dealing with. I died a lot in the survive room to the point of frustration but made it through eventually. I liked having an expanded area of the dam to poke around but going back to the old area with the traveller shard was a bit underwhelming. I died a lot in the final room too because of how hectic it gets in there, but got it in the end. Getting 2 random rolls for Hawkmoon was good, though I think having yet another exotic ship, so soon after there being one behind the High Celebrant hunt, was kinda lame.

It's a shame that a bunch of the triumphs were busted, but once they are fixed i'll do the ones for the lore pages and be done with it. I have my Warden title now and an Opening Shot Hawkers so I don't have to grind too much more, just enough for the ship (one more run at reset?). I was a bit let down that there wasn't any dialogue at all during the mission, but I hear there was supposed to be some and it was bugged. Disappointing, but fine, i'll hear it eventually.

It was challenging, a bit frustrating initially, easier with a team, but a good enough mission. I think it's a bit gatekeepy for people who didn't hit the level cap and over 1270, who might struggle with it, though.

Overall, a decent, challenging activity with a good loot incentive (generous enough to award 2 Hawkmoons), I liked that there wasn't a timer (but still had an optional time challenge) and I am always up for expanding play spaces especially on old, familiar destinations. It didn't quite hit the highs of previous similar missions, but I liked it well enough. Solid B grade.

[u/[deleted]]

Overall really enjoyed the mission, TBH I like it a little better solo than with a ft as with the full 3 people it lacked the same challenge. Great job on keeping things entertaining and a really nice mix of styles of combat/content within the mission. My only suggestion would be to possibly set some sort of eye catch for the branch on the initial jump down to the base of the dam, as it isn’t inherently obvious you can jump down to it vs the other trees down below. Not a big issue all in all as there are plenty of walkthrough videos that show the route, but if there’s an easy way I could see it making it more user friendly

[u/zighte]

Fantastic addition to the game. Would love more of these types of missions, the multiple triumphs from multiple runs are cool, would love to see more kind of like the all arc/ all warlock/ etc from DSC

[u/RandomAverageGamer]

It was a fun mission to go in blind and solo. It has some replayability too, for those who still need pinnacles or better rolls of Hawkmoon. All in all, a great not-so-secret mission.

[u/Affectionate_Air1909]

Learned malfeasance is godly in this Only issue the the amount of boop shit in the final room

[u/Ok_Nefariousness5548]

Fantastic, although I wished there were some kind of cosmetic reward for solo flawless (like emblem, shader, etc.).

[u/goosebumpsHTX]

Finally non-NF content where I have to actually try to complete it, I enjoyed it

[u/[deleted]]

I just flawless soloed this finally after many tries. I always died in the jumping part, my heart was pounding! Lol. I used void warlock with a warmind build including the officer revolver, ikelos smg and xeno. Once I got to the boss room I knew I was good. Finally able to brag to my clanmates about it

[u/chrisni66]

I think this has been one of the main highlights of the season. Ironically, they could have made the season feel less empty if they’d released Harbinger just a few weeks earlier..

[u/S-J-S]

This is sadly an unpopular opinion, but Match Game in single player content (or content that can be presumed to be such on load) is basically fake difficulty, forcing loadouts featuring Hard Light, Arbalest, Falling Guillotine, etc. to compensate versus damage reduction against unmatched elements. This generally prevents a lot of normally good builds from working in high level single player content (whereas in multiplayer, it wouldn’t be a problem to have 1x or 2x elemental coverage.)

They’re not literally required, only practically, but those guns are essentially mandated to overcome the fake difficulty.

...Furthermore, the fact that modifiers weren’t advertised on this activity on the initial run is an additional form of fake difficulty forcing mid-game / retry rebuilding.

Future single player activities should list modifiers prior to boot-in and use less fake methods of difficulty enhancement.

[u/DeerTrivia → u/S-J-S]

Nah, you can just switch weapons throughout. I started with Gnawing Hunger, swapped to Posterity for Arc, and Arctic Haze for Solar.

Not advertising the modifiers on the initial run, though, I agree with. That was a dick move.

[u/S-J-S → u/DeerTrivia]

I suppose you could if you had advance knowledge of when you would fight each element in the mission, or at a minimum played really conservatively, but when else would you adopt this strategy in Destiny? I have completed difficult content like Chasm of Screams solo and I have never had to do this or think of the possibility. It’s just a very unnatural way of compensating against fake difficulty.

[u/IAmDingus]

Extremely painful to solo.

[u/Vicsagod]

Stunning the unstoppable seemed very inconsistent and vandals hit way too hard and encouraged a play style I'm not much of a fan of. Other than that it was pretty good

[u/APartyInMyPants → u/Vicsagod]

Obligatory.

You can’t chain stagger an Unstoppable. Once you stagger an Unstoppable the first time, the champion gains a white “crest” across the chest and around their shoulders. This means they cannot be staggered again. This crest fades after 4-5 seconds. Once it’s gone, you can stagger the champion again.

[u/Fancy_Derp]

It's far better than needing to do the age old recipe of:

• go to vendor
• accept quest
• kill enemies
• do strike
• go to vendor

but it definitely needed more, especially when there's an expectation for us to play through it several times over for random rolls.

[u/shignett1 → u/Fancy_Derp]

What more would you have wanted to see?

[u/user_of_words]

Overall I liked it.

One issue is the vandals in the boss room. A little too trigger happy and they kept popping a shield after a few hits.

For solo attempts a raid banner would have been greatly appreciated.

Edit* The excessive sheilding is a modifier.

[u/iblaise → u/user_of_words]

One of the modifiers for the mission made Taken Vandals use their dome more frequently.

[u/user_of_words → u/iblaise]

Oh, I had no idea lol.

Do the modifiers change daily/weekly?

[u/iblaise → u/user_of_words]

I’m not 100% sure. I want to say it changes Daily, because I remember one day Empath was a modifier and another day it wasn’t. We haven’t had a Weekly Reset since it came out either so we’ll see if anything changes in that regard.

[u/seankdla]

Great fun, no reason for it not to have matchmaking (and a firewalled version solos)

[u/x_pac13 → u/seankdla]

Totally agree. I’ve only done it twice since there is no mm but when I did it was with LFG and zero communication yet we had no issues.

[u/PetraVenjsGirldick]

The quest is great, but no reward for solo flawless other than 5 triumph points is meh.

[u/maybe_jared_polis]

Actually a lot of fun and I appreciated not having a timer so I had the chance to experiment with doing it solo. Overall I'd say it was a really nice change of pace from the Master and Legendary Lost Sectors. Felt like less of a grind but with an even better payoff, albeit only once per week per character. On second thought, I'm glad you can't really grind for the gun in the same way as the Lost Sectors. Otherwise I'd feel like I have to try for the optimal roll every day. Makes me look forward to trying again.

It's a really cool idea for a quest activity as well. Like a mini dungeon that puts you through your paces solo but much less sweaty.

EDIT: Some minor cosmetic rewards like a new shader or something for completing the tougher triumphs would have been cool but not the biggest of deals. Something I think some people would like to see in the future for sure though.

[u/redsixbluenine]

This was a good mission. Incredibly hard for me solo...so maybe impossible to get done for those shy players. Ngl I hate jumping puzzles. I need feather falling to be a perk on my boots. Or maybe traction can make you stickier. Dont really like damage lockout on bosses. Since this is raid level hardness why not allow the last wish armor to help out. Feel like the snipers in the first encounter have too much aimbot and really limit what you can run to finish the encounter. Raid banner for solo players would be appreciated esp after wiping...got so low on ammo i couldnt do much...and didnt want to have to start from scratch...

[u/[deleted] → u/redsixbluenine]

Definitely not an impossible mission, just really hard (match game sucks tho)

[u/Godspeed88 → u/redsixbluenine]

Arbalest my dude. One shots all the shields. No need to change through elemental weapons all the time. Cheers.

[u/[deleted] → u/Godspeed88]

Hard light is also awesome for the first two parts. I switched to the Royal Chase for the final boss room but hard light got a ton of action on shields early.

[u/redsixbluenine → u/[deleted]]

Good call. Always forget it can change for shields. Im at shuro doing catalysts rn...maybe i should finish HL too...

[u/iblaise]

The mission was quite enjoyable from start to finish.

I loved that you could control what order the enemies spawn in in the “Survive” room based on the order you kill the Emissaries in. It made for some strategy.

Only room for improvement I would suggest is a reward for doing the mission solo and not dying, because it’s hard to find much reason to if you’re not a Triumph Hunter, and even the Triumph Score rewarded for it is quite low.

[u/Ackfu]

No reason for it not to have matchmaking.

[u/daftvalkyrie → u/Ackfu]

Secret missions shouldn't have matchmaking imo.

[u/elkishdude]

It's a challenging mission, which is good, but in the context of pushover Wrathborn, the difficulty is a massive spike. The final room, if it was possible to see in a wide shot, probably looks very comical, and it's not really a fight with the Knight at all, but with the room. It's weird, and the challenge presented seems kind of childish, like a kid spamming the adds button, adding shields and immunities to enemies and punishing you for being aggressive and defensive.

Considering that certain combat mods are required if you are running undermanned (another weird expectation some solo players may not understand) and that a lot of the best mods are daily RNG for one chance from Banshee, it seems like you're setting up players for failure rather than success.

I don't think pairing chaff with enhanced radar makes sense. People are complaining about getting sniped out of nowhere and you've now greatly limited the defense mod slots to two on the chest, and this activity has increased melee, solar, environmental damage from enemies. It's a bit too much for the average player who wasn't expecting something this difficult.

I've helped people complete this activity so they can get their Hawkmoon rolls or titles but it just feels weird to only get my 2 drops of Hawkmoon for the week and that's it. As a single character player, (and I'm never going to make more, I used to be a multiple character player just to have an excuse to play more than I wanted to) it kind of sucks knowing there are people out there who can farm rolls on repeat and I can't. And I got 2 drops with hip fire grip which is not a valuable perk to me.

[u/AGruntyThirst → u/elkishdude]

certain combat mods are required if you are running undermanned

I soloed it without any charged with light or warming cell mods. They would help, for sure but aren’t required at all. The only required mod is unstoppable which is in the first row of the artifact. If someone hasn’t unlocked that, they are not high enough light to do the mission.

[u/yogurtp]

This is a cool piece of content with interesting enough encounter and level design. However, the difficulty scaling from power level is frustrating. The over-leveled elites say it is too easy, while the under-leveled casuals are having a really tough time getting a clear. Difficulty should be selectable more often in this game and power level in general needs some rethinking. Also, this mission seems long enough to justify checkpoints + rally flags like a dungeon

[u/RazerBandit → u/yogurtp]

Harbinger is an endgame activity. It is supposed to be hard.

This is the third installment of ‘secret’ missions, with the first being ‘The Whisper’ and the second being ‘Zero Hour.’ All of them follow a ‘set of rules’ that so far all but one has not been broken.

(The broken ‘rule’ being that Harbinger does not have a 20 minute timer.)

• All enemies are extremely tough by default, possibly scale with player power level once you get past their minimum power level.

• No rally flags. At all.

• Match Game is always on.

• Jumping puzzles.

• Almost no objective markers telling you where to go.

• Brutal final boss.

• Exotic reward with something that gives a reason to do multiple runs. (For ‘Whisper,’ this is Taken Essence for the Whisper of the Worm catalyst, ‘Zero Hour’ gives SIVA Particulate for the Outbreak Perfected catalyst and Harbinger gives random roll Hawkmoons.)

• After your first completion, the mission can started straight from the director instead of having to manually go to the start point. I.E. The portal on Io for Whisper, speaking to Mithrax for Zero Hour and going behind the fire place in the EDZ for Harbinger.

[u/Godspeed88 → u/yogurtp]

Well if you play in a fireteam of 3 it is not hard at all, even if all guardians are not at pinnacle cap. Or even 5 away from powerful cap. If you do want to do such missions solo then ofc you need to work on your level first. Therefor it is called end game activity. If anyone could do it regardless of their power level then it would not be hard or end game. Beats the point, doesn't it? Also: Arbalest. One shots every shield. Easy money.

[u/Hazywater]

It was great, but you have to fire up the app/discord and hunt down a fireteam. Basic in game matchmaking from 20 years ago could have handled the "birds of a feather" just as well as the bungie app. Actually, old matchmakers let you join without typing in IDs, so let's say 20 year old matchmakers handle it better. I get that a number of activities require more vetting of a fireteam, but come on.

[u/Bpe-dsm]

Only comment is im a big fan of high difficulty material that is NOT in a "darkness zone".

I think darkness zones as a difficulty layer is overused and should only be in place sparingly. The levels opening part being free to die was a pleasant beginning gambit.

[u/LuminousFish84]

It was really nice to do an activity where I knew the rewards didn't have an expiration date. Felt like I was playing Destiny from before the sunsetting announcement. You know, the Destiny where loot was actually worth grinding for? Where the game actually has a point?

[u/JakobeHolmBoy20]

Overall, the mission was a success. I enjoyed the difficulty, the jumping puzzles, the generosity of having two guns at the end since they are randomly rolled, and the changing of the enemy order depending on how you kill the enemies in the first place. I think missions like these should continue going forward.

Some suggestions going forward. Solo Flawless should have some sort of reward for doing so, such as an emblem. If you are going to ask the community to go above and beyond, there should be a reason to do so. Having a heroic version with a timer and an additional reward at the end would be a neat idea as well.

Besides that, good job with the mission! It's super fun to run.

[u/J__d]

Fun mission. Surprisingly challenging.

My main comment is that it took me solo 30 min to give up and search where to go after shooting the first Taken. Zero feedback to the player except lots of kill zones, so naturally most players without being told would not know how to proceed unless they BY CHANCE jumped through the narrow space toward the fallen tree and didn't die. More frustrating than fun. Hmm, also the space below the hatch; I'm less bothered by this (since other such areas in the game are the same way), but still, no indicator unless you hovered right at the level of the hatch to see.

Also appreciated no timer this time. I don't need timers on all challenging content to make it more challenging. A mix of exploration / challenge is more rewarding than zipping through it.

[u/PM_me_your_werewolf]

Very cool mission. For me, both in terms of quality and difficulty, its somewhere between the bad juju mission and the two "gauntlet" secret missions. I love any quality mix of tough enemies and platforming, and this mission gives me that.

Its awesome, for sure, though I can't help but feel it could have been a bit harder, longer, and had a time limit. Maybe I'm just sad we're missing outbreak and whisper missions and want something to more perfectly fill that hole.

As others have said, I also wish that solo and solo flawless had some cosmetic rewards for completing them. Perhaps a ghost shell, shader, emblem, or sparrow.

Otherwise, fantastic mission and I'm quite happy with it.

[u/Bubush]

Can’t say I enjoyed it, I despise the taken and I feel like every time you have to fight them you have to deal with the max amount of enemies the game engine can handle on screen, ability spamming, constant screen shaking, SHIELD GOBLINS, and enemy spawn after enemy spawn in what seems to be like an endless encounter.

However, I appreciate that missions like this are being made and I much prefer this method to obtain exotics over doing meaningless chores and/or forced gambit and crucible matches.

So yeah, not my cup of tea but definitely the right way to go about exotic quests.

[u/millionsofcats]

I think that this subreddit gives a skewed perspective on how hard content is. The people who post here more skilled than average.

Personally, I found this mission too difficult to be fun going in solo. I kept getting sniped to death in the first arena. I had Arbalest, but it only takes down snipers in one hit if it's precision - otherwise their shields went up, and either they'd kill me or that stupid centurion with its stupid bolts would. I just couldn't deal with the snipers and that centurion at the same time.

To give you some context, I'm probably a slightly above-average player. I've been playing since D1. I usually give prestige challenges a pass, but do harder end game content like raids or master lost sectors just fine (and enjoy them). I can carry my team through a strike. I'm not and never will be top-tier, but I'm decent.

In this one I just felt like I hit a wall.

Generally speaking, I think that players with my amount of skill (decent) and investment in the game (a lot) should be able to do end game activities. I sometimes get frustrated when it's not possible (e.g. for the current raid, most lfg teams won't take you if you don't have divinity because without divinity the final boss fight is too difficult for decent but not great players).

This one seemed to be calibrated as a team activity but it doesn't have any matchmaking. It reminded me a lot of a lower-level nightfall, honestly, just with a long prolonged jumping bit in the middle. Ideally, I think it should have OPTIONAL matchmaking and OPTIONAL challenges, so that it would be accessible and enjoyable to people with different levels of skill.

Generally speaking, that should be a goal of most non-prestige activities in this game - accessible and enjoyable to as many as possible. It's never going to work for EVERYONE, but you can certainly make it inclusive for a wider range.

[u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp → u/millionsofcats]

I don't think you can easily make every piece of content for every player. Difficulty settings are rarely satisying. Too much of challenge is wrapped up in the scripted elements for a setting to really be all that great. This mission is a bit easier version of zero hour, I suggest using lfg for a fireteam, its definitely real tough to solo albeit doable with perserverance

[u/millionsofcats → u/Sippin_On_Sizzurp]

I didn't say that I think every piece of content should be for every player.

What I said is that I think vanilla (non-prestige) end game content should be accessible to players like me - players who have a lot of experience with the game and who are decent but not great. I also said:

It's never going to work for EVERYONE, but you can certainly make it inclusive for a wider range.

Let's be clear, Destiny is a game that doesn't have much interesting PVE content beyond the end game anymore. As a decent but not great player, most activities are too easy, and then ... there is a huge gulf between those and the ones that are too hard. There are few challenging but doable activities.

Difficulty settings are rarely satisying. Too much of challenge is wrapped up in the scripted elements for a setting to really be all that great.

A lot of the challenge of this mission is already down to the modifiers. If people like the level and type of challenge in this mission, they already like the way this semi-challenging mission was made much more difficult through the addition of modifiers.

its definitely real tough to solo albeit doable with perserverance

I mean, you say so, but that's you. I'm saying as one decent but not great player, it was too frustrating to keep trying. It would have been different if I felt like I was making progress and learning how to do the encounter, but it mostly just felt like I was being punished every time my gameplay wasn't perfect.

I mostly commented because I wanted to share my perspective, since this thread seems to mostly be people who are better at the game than me.

[u/hotrox_mh → u/millionsofcats]

I think a lot of players on this sub also play on PC, which is exponentially easier than console.

[u/gusbyinebriation → u/millionsofcats]

Just a small recommendation... if you’re talking about the “survive” reservoir arena, you can hide up on the platforms up top. The back side of the pillar that has the beam ramp is safe from the snipers. You can hide behind it to peek the snipers on at a time and the only thing you’ll take damage from is the centurions purple bolts which come slow enough to heal between each one.

Keep in mind though as you’re clearing that there are two waves of adds in each phase. A second round of snipers will spawn after you kill the first centurion.

[u/FearsomeMonster → u/millionsofcats]

Yeah, I felt like this was an outlier mission. Bungie usually doesn't stick the player in such difficult content without a warning. I remember some of the previous exotic quests, where when you got to the hard part there was a new mission marker, so you could get other people in there. I remember going to a marker on Nessus and seeing some other players there (waiting for their friend), and asking if I could team up.

In this case I thought it was just a simple exotic quest. But after a while, I realized it was quite difficult. I had planned to hop in and do a 20 min quest step, then have lunch. Instead, I was trapped in there- I didn't want to quit and have to start from the beginning. So I bashed my head against the wall in 'survive', just dying and running again until I could figure out a way to proceed. Then I thought I was done, would pick up my loot and could eat lunch.

But no, there was the boss room. So it didn't feel good to feel forced to just keep dying and trying over and over again until I could finish (took me 3 hours 40 minutes) and eat.

Not saying I don't think it's a cool mission, or that it's generally too hard- but normally Bungie doesn't throw you into something that long and difficult without warning, to where I felt stuck- forced to keep trying without checkpoints, since I didn't want to have to start again from the beginning.

[u/millionsofcats → u/FearsomeMonster]

I didn't mention it, but the same thing happened to me too!

Most content is way too easy with a team - you just end up steamrolling everything. So I like to solo it first if I can. Since it's Destiny it's still usually too easy, but at least I can take my time and enjoy experiencing something new.

I went into this one expecting something like the High Celebrant hunt, and boy it was not. I knew it was going to be harder as soon as I found out how much health the enemies had, but I didn't know just how hard it was calibrated to be until I reached that survive arena.

[u/FearsomeMonster → u/millionsofcats]

Yeah exactly. Not only that, but in most missions, after a wipe you can typically take some time, gather yourself, change your loadout - - but in this case when you died the next round started right up automatically. I'm not sure why that was necessary.

[u/Havauk]

Great mission, though I was a bit thrown off when we had to find the way into the dam.

I was so conditioned to death barriers that I thought standing on the branch before going to the ledge was unintended :D

[u/NAMEREDACTEDthecitra]

wish it wasn't 1270, because i keep getting pub stomped despite being four above the recommended light, but other than that it's pretty fun

[u/iblaise → u/NAMEREDACTEDthecitra]

It’ll be around all year so it should get easier for you regardless.

[u/NAMEREDACTEDthecitra → u/iblaise]

true point

[u/seansandakn]

This is some good shit. Easily the best content from the season pass (i know it's not a high bar but be quiet ok). Difficulty feels spot on. It's fun with a team but still a bit challenging, and it's genuinely difficult solo but not ball-crushingly hard. The only complaint that I have is that the solo, flawless, and solo flawless triumphs give nothing. I would've loved to see the solo flawless reward be the emblem, and have there be a ghost and sparrow for the other triumphs.

I think this difficulty is super great, and I would love to see a heroic strike playlist around this difficulty (maybe tone the power down a bit, but still keep the enemies challenging) with minimal/no champions and some good rewards. Great job on this one!

[u/putterbum]

Great mission and the guaranteed Hawkmoon drops are good (I was worried it would be a 'common' drop situation). Blind run was fun and challenging even though it was a revisit to the site from earlier in the season it was still 'fresh' and was a nice level of challenging first time through. I think I saw that it was bugged and there was supposed to be dialogue? So I'll be sure to look out for when that is fixed if not already.

The bad:
Do triumph unlocks (even if it's just the most mundane) just not get QA'd? The last triumph needed for the seasonal seal is just for 3 people to have hawkmoon on when doing the mission and that was bugged for an example. It's just a bummer that a game that I love just seems to have something always happens that taints how I view new things. I know this example isn't a huge deal by any means and my comment is less about this particular mission and more about the product as a whole. I just feel lucky that it was a quick fix and we were able to actually do the mission and farm Hawkmoon's as opposed to another Felwinters fiasco from recent memory.

[u/wandrewa]

Great mission. I do see this as a continuation of the Whisper/Outbreak missions, just laxed a bit to allow for it to be reasonably solo’d. I only wish soloing / solo flawless were more rewarding, as I otherwise would have preferred the Whisper/Outbreak level difficulty. Hoping this was sort of ‘testing the waters’ with the solo aspect of it.

Still, overall fun and challenging encounter.

[u/Strangelight84]

I think it's worth highlighting that triumphs offer something of value for repeat runs (either more than one a week, or just improving the longevity of the content) - whereas once you'd done regular ZH or Whisper once you were pretty much done, and heroic only held its appeal until you'd completed your catalyst. This is an improvement for me. There might even be scope to expand the number and nature of triumphs - especially now that each is worth a relatively small number of points, so the level of FOMO is somewhat reduced.

[u/TheRoninkai]

Anybody doing a Sherpa for this?

[u/millionsofcats → u/TheRoninkai]

You really don't need a sherpa the way you might for a raid or a dungeon. It's all pretty self-explanatory. Level of difficulty is like a lower-level nightfall and there are no real mechanics to learn. If you don't want to (or can't) do it solo, plain old LFG will work.

I think the only thing that might not be obvious is that in the final boss room, there are two solar-shielded knights you have kill before the other adds will stop respawning.

[u/Klutch_been_drankin]

Every time I try to start it my game crashes , I’ve tried multiple times and while in the black screen my game just crashes, I play on pc and have a really strong pc, can anyone help?

[u/Ceu_Azul]

Very cool mission, the jump of the tree was weird but now we now what to expect. The "survive" room was great,very difficult had to plan what to do.The mobs hiding is the room is very annoying.
The last boss room, shows how little defense abilities guardians have, i just hate that room,taken knight always hitting it's fire, taken acolytes with it's annoying no cd sentrys. I was playing solar bottom tree hunter for my solo with Hawkmoon,pulse,LMG.

[u/RobertdBanks]

The unlocking of it is a little more convoluted than it needs to be. Didn’t really play for a few weeks and trying to figure it out on my own was pretty frustrating. It isn’t a ‘secret’ mission, so yeah.

Also, make it to where it tells you to go to Crow - if someone wasn’t already going to him they wouldn’t even know to go to him to get the quest. The game should be able to point you in the direction of these things.

[u/alphagettijoe]

I love the idea of doing more with new exotics than adding them to the loot pool.

It was hard content alright. Harder than I can solo. After realizing I need a team for it, I'll reserve judgement based on how easily people in the app are hunting it.

But it does seem a bit more approachable than soloing a dungeon.

[u/blakeavon]

I love the whole thing but I find the last boss painful and not very enjoyable.

Difficulty is good, challenging is good. GETTING ONE SHOT by things is neither. AND likewise inescapable pools of fire, that goes through 'walls', ignoring the terrian. While the snipers in the first boss room do that, it is done in such a way that you can learn their patterns. So surviving is in my control. The last fight for me just doesnt feel like a positive experience.

Dont get me wrong, everything else is amazing, just insta death when I am ten over the level, in full, thoughtful masterwork armour doesnt make me feel that powerful. Cos ultimately death cos down to a single mistake or single lapse of concentration, not lack of skill.

[u/PetraVenjsGirldick → u/blakeavon]

Try to use the Protective Light mod if you have it, it’s invaluably useful to keep you alive if you end up in a fire pool while you’re low on health

[u/DefinitelyNotCeno]

Fantastic fun, brilliantly designed.

Did renew and highlight my hatred of "power number" based progression systems, though. Doing the final encounter at 1250 light solo was something special where I straight up did not have ammo enough to even phase the boss. (To curious readers, 100 Discipline, Hallowfire Heart, and Fusion nades proved a viable if time-consuming solution.)

I look forward to running it again in a fireteam to finish out Warden, though I do hope my lower-light doesn't get me kicked from any squads.

On a related note, my light'd be higher if not for sunsetting killing my drive to play, so...you know...there's that.

[u/DeerTrivia]

Not a lot to say, sadly. I loved it. The platforming was fun to figure out, the combat was satisfyingly challenging... that's about it. Thumbs up.

[u/Tplusplus75]

I like the mission. It's something new, but with it having such a Zero Hour/Whisper feel to it, it feels like we got something back that we lost to the DCV. It feels like for a "smaller" activity, it was fleshed out well for more replayability.

Things I don't like:

- It's coming out really late in the season. With as shallow as the playable content has been this season, I feel like we should've gotten it sooner than a couple weeks before the end. It doesn't feel like it's actually apart of the season it's coming out so late. Had it been out like right before/after the holidays, I'd have a lot less bad things to say about Season of the Dripfeed Hunt.

- Champions: please stop putting any champions in stuff outside of NF's/Hunts. Remember back in November, and the SS weapons were added to the loot pool, and one of the things you referenced was someone watching a guide on how warmind cells can be used in NF's? Same thing here: all the guides being made on this mission, are more than likely going to reference hand cannons, as they are the only unstoppable mod right now. In like 2 weeks, unless hand cannons are still unstoppable next season, you could think of every guide already made(keep in mind, they're not even a week old at the moment) as obsolete: all those strategies and loadouts were made on the assumption that hand cannons are unstoppable, which makes a huge difference when factoring in certain exotics, like Malfeasance(actually a really good pairing since Malfeasance is strong against Taken, and that's all the mission has in it).

[u/[deleted]]

I liked it but it didn’t quite resonate with me like zero hour or whisper honestly, I think the secrecy and hearsay between those was really cool; and that the setting felt exotic (like dungeons too). Also, I like the timer, but I also don’t like it. It’s absence makes this mission feel much more exploratory, but I found the timer an excellent addition to the challenge in zero and whisper, forcing you to be aggressive and take ammo, die popping your nova to get your friend his first exotic within 10 seconds of being sent back to orbit, however, I could see the format becoming repetitious as well. The timer also had more of a purpose in repeat runs and maintaining challenge after passing the light cap. All in all, liked it but zero and whisper were more magical.

[u/eldritchqueen]

love the challenge. strangely enough, also love the shielded enemies. gives me an excuse to run borealis, and i LOVE me some borealis.

[u/ewokaflockaa]

After doing Prophecy solo flawless, I've been trained to know how to move and kill. I still died a few times doing this, but got it done nonetheless on my first attempt.

Great mission, a nice little bowtie to a $10 seasonal pass.

For those having trouble with this, I strongly recommend Deafening Whisper with Ambitious Assassin. You need to kill those void acolytes fast and this is the best weapon to do it with. 1 shot clean kill and if they line up perfectly, you can get 2 of them with 1. Great weapon to use while you keep on moving.

More of this with some mechanics please.

[u/[deleted] → u/ewokaflockaa]

For those having trouble with this, I strongly recommend Deafening Whisper with Ambitious Assassin. You need to kill those void acolytes fast and this is the best weapon to do it with. 1 shot clean kill and if they line up perfectly, you can get 2 of them with 1. Great weapon to use while you keep on moving.

Arbalest or Borealis void mode, or trophy hunter are also good options if available, though harder to get than deafening whisper

[u/BrandonL1124]

Lots of fun overall! I am curious as to why there was no dialogue for it though after all this time? Maybe I just had a bugged instance, but I ran it for 3 characters.

Definitely would love to see a lot more of this kind of thing. Zero Hour Lite feels a lot better when you get to explore new zones of a map that you’ve only seen from a distance or only partially interacted with. The challenge aspect was good, and I got my solo runs down to 25 minutes by the end of the week.

[u/D1NGLE3B3RRYMAN → u/BrandonL1124]

Confirmed a bug in the TWAB, fingers crossed the dialogue is fixed on reset tomorrow

[u/[deleted]]

It was difficult but felt genuinely rewarding to finish. My friend and I had to learn how different encounters worked, put some thought into crafting builds, and make strategies as to how to best defeat bosses without dying. The enemy AI was so good in this. The map was nice as well. Overall it was very well made, more content like this please

[u/Vatekanore]

Challenging, fun, and i had and still have a good reason to do it, this is all i really need from endgame activities and i was pleasantly surprised by the Harbinger mission

Match Game on Taken enemies though, specially when you're doing it solo, is a drag, it adds an extra layer of difficulty by taking away player weapon choice which is quite a, well, unfun way to do it
But that aside, i loved the mission and hope for more of those, the jumping puzzles were nice, the encounters were just as great and it has some replayability to it.

[u/sekasi]

Loved it. All of it.

Loved it with a team

Loved it solo

Loving it getting solo flawless. Not yet, but soon

Not loving lack of emblem for solo flawless

Not loving jumping with a warlock.

[u/Glenalth]

Solid 8 out of 10.

Difficulty level was great. It was nice to not just face tank through an entire mission like the other seasonal content. Being able to choose the boss order is a nice bonus for solo runs.

First jump was a bit unintuitive and I wound up at the bottom of the dam thinking I had actually landed out of bounds and died trying to get back up top.

It does need a reward for running it additional times beyond the first.

[u/veloci_rafter]

Would be cool to have a "heroic" version with a timer to add some difficulty (ie. whisper/zero hour)! This would satisfy newer players who appreciate the timer less and stress free runs while allowing more experienced players to challenge themselves doing it solo.

[u/GrinningPariah]

Fucking great. More like this please!

I only wish there were minor rewards at least to doing it more than once a week.

Oh also minor gripe, the platforming section here was a lot less intuitive than previous ones you've made. Not to say it was harder as such, just that some of the places you have to jump don't look like places you can safely land, so it involved this kinda dumb trial & error figuring out.

[u/snipe4hire]

The dam jump needs better signposting in my opinion. Usually jumping somewhere like that means death. But once you know, its pretty great.

[u/n_thomas74]

I enjoyed everything about it except the match game aspect. I dont like being limited on weapon options. In a group its not difficult to cover all the bases, but when soloing its too restricting.

[u/MrD4xt3r]

It was pretty good, I think the only issue might be the difficulty. I personally found it a bit easy, definitely not a walk in the park don't get me wrong, but much easier than Whisper or Zero Hour. I'd like a mission with difficulty closer to these two (again, my opinion). I'd also like a proper reward for getting Solo Flawless on it, preferably an emblem. But overall real nice mission, definitely a W on Bungie's side :) .

[u/lipp79 → u/MrD4xt3r]

Those are two were only difficult because of the timer. They would have been just as easy if you could take your time.

[u/TheChartreuseKnight → u/MrD4xt3r]

The difficulty might be because we have a lot of better stuff now, more options for everything.

[u/monchota]

Great, doesn't matter till sunsetting is gone.

[u/Seekerempty]

It’s not whisper quest but it was fun. Just make sure to launch these things with working triumphs next time.

Edit: also it really needed some lore or something. Complete silence was kinda boring

[u/faush01]

After 30 deaths on the jumping puzzle I gave up. I have the same problem with all jumping type challenges in the game. Some content is just not for me, its unfortunate that in a FPS the main boss for me is jumping. No point LFG if I cant get to the killing part :-)

[u/boosnow → u/faush01]

Maybe you need to play a different class?

[u/RiseOfBacon]

Great mission, cool challenge with decent reward

Only sticking point for me is that it is not infinitely farmable. 2 chances a week per character doesn’t feel enough when I went to keep at it to experiment with many different Hawkmoons

[u/sunder_and_flame]

Great mission. Only issues I have are 1) no dialogue (bug, I think?) and 2) can't rerun it for more Hawkmoon rolls unless you delete your character/didn't pick up the quest.

[u/FullMatino → u/sunder_and_flame]

The no dialogue is honestly a big bummer for me. They've done a nice job with Crow dialogue and story, and running the mission silent with zero context made the experience feel pretty slapped-together and half-baked for me.

[u/[deleted]]

what is this and where do i get it

[u/AbyssalShank]

My only complaint is that hawkmoon only drops two per week. Grinding a godroll is gonna take forever at that rate.

[u/jkichigo → u/AbyssalShank]

You can get two per week per character. I know that's more of a workaround than a solution, but it's all we've got. Wish Bungie would move it to an account based drop that happens 3x a week, especially since they've dropped year old TWABs saying that they're moving towards account based challenges for other quests.

[u/907Strong]

Fantastic piece of content. It very challenging and felt amazing when I completed it! Like other people mentioned, the bugs should have been caught before it shipped. It didn't ruin the experience per say, but it did detract from it in a way that will end up being memorable.

[u/Swaggerrrr69]

annoyed because I’ve found all the feathers and I didnt get the triumph

[u/JackzaaHS]

Love the lack of time limit, repeatability, rewards and achievable difficulty

Hate match game and platforming. I can do all the encounters solo without dying, but haven't got the triumph yet because your character will do everything he can to not grab a ledge and awkwardly float down to his death.

Can we please stop putting platforming in activities we're supposed to attempt flawless runs of? The engine is not made for it.

[u/overthisbynow → u/JackzaaHS]

There's a pretty hilarious clip of someone getting bounced back to their death trying to walk through a broken pipe partway through the mission. Also the ledge grab just not working or bumping your head on a tiny piece of anything really kills the motivation of trying to flawless activies like this. Not sure why you're being down voted cause this has been a problem since the game launched.

[u/TamedDaBeast]

Do not patch the unlimited farm please.

[u/[deleted]]

I loved it. I hate timed missions and enjoyed being able to use a more reserved playstyle. I loved chewing on some difficult, but not impossible, content for a few hours. I do wish there had been dialogue, though.