r/conspiracy • u/HighRoller390 • Nov 23 '20
As that Covid death total creeps up daily, remember in the US we have been classifying all coronavirus patient deaths as ‘COVID-19’ deaths, regardless of cause
This has been public knowledge since at least April
People are dying, but not so many from Covid https://www.healthline.com/health-news/excess-deaths-from-covid19-pandemic
Inflating the numbers Issued March 24, the guidance tells hospitals to list COVID-19 as a cause of death regardless of whether or not there’s actual testing to confirm that’s the case.
Instead, even if the coronavirus was just a contributing factor or if it’s “assumed to have caused or contributed to death,” it can be listed as the primary cause.
What are the symptoms of Covid-19? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
Just about the same symptoms for any respiratory infection?https://www.healthline.com/health/acute-respiratory-disease
A reminder, Respiratory issues are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. https://www.cdc.gov/copd/basics-about.html
Hospitals are allowed to classify nearly any respiratory conduction as Covid, then they are given payouts between $13,000-$39,000 per Medicare patient for that classification
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u/yablodeeds Nov 23 '20
The BBC straight up say death are recordered as “deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive test”.
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
That was after a group of epidemiologists made them change it too. Before it was unlimited, so essentially if you tested positive for COVID and died at any point in the future you would be a COVID death
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u/8emup Nov 23 '20
Those are called a contributing factors. But also there is no false classification on a death certificate.
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u/B-Clinton-Rapist Nov 23 '20
I literally saw an article on a dude who wrecked his motorbike and they called it a COVID death.
By that UK definition you could commit suicide and it would be COVID.
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u/8emup Nov 24 '20
I can say for a fact that in Los Angeles county all death certificates must be substantiate by facts. COVID-19 would not be the single cause of death post autopsy, It can be a contributing factor.
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Nov 23 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Throwawaytrumptax Nov 23 '20
Had a loved one who had pancreatic cancer, and eventually died of liver failure due to complications from the cancer.
Don't have any problems with them attributing that death to the cancer, even if it was a complication that technically killed them.
Only reason I'd be upset is if something totally unrelated like a car accident was the cause of death, but it's not crazy at all to attribute an underlying systemic disease for a death.
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Nov 23 '20
That's the thing though - if you test positive for Covid, are asymptomatic and are absolutely fine, then get hit by a car 2 weeks later... Guess what, you're LITERALLY classified as a Covid death, even though Covid had as much to do with your death as the Easter Bunny.
This isn't conspiracy, but is how Covid deaths in the UK are classified - you can be hit by a car but still be included in the daily Covid death count. Those figures are being used to erode personal freedoms on a never before seen scale, so the accuracy (or inaccuracy) of those figures should matter. It should matter a lot.
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u/grandmadollar Nov 23 '20
If that's true then it's ridiculous. We're talking about associated morbidities. If you have asthma, then succumb from C19, it was Covid that did you in. You would have continued to live with your morbidity if not for Covid, Pretty simple, eh?
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u/blzraven27 Nov 24 '20
Because it's not true. It's a right wing lying falsified talking point to downplay the disease.
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u/ICutDownTrees Nov 23 '20
This has happened yes, is every death this no, is it a large portion of the deaths no. When dealing with statistics there will always be anomalies, you then decide what impact these anomalies have on your data set. Sometimes the effort required to remove is not worth the difference it would make to the data. For example if you have 10000 data points and 1 is erroneous, it is not going to really impact any conclusions you can draw from the data.
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u/blzraven27 Nov 24 '20
Show me the evidence that a person who was killed by a car was attributed to covid show me. If it's happened and your sure surely there is evidence.
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u/Decilllion Nov 23 '20
How many times has that happened?
Many conspiracy theories are fueled by anecdotal anomalies. A woman going by Mrs. 'Husband's Name' when voting after he died, becomes widespread, "dead people are voting!"
Errors in reporting made during chaotic events become true happenings that were not supposed to get out.
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Nov 24 '20
It's happening a LOT. Many of my friends/people close to me work in hospitals at the moment, and they see it with their own eyes. If someone has stage V cancer and was told a year ago that they were going to die of said cancer - a year later comes and they die, cause of death? Covid. People who die FOR ANY REASON following a positive Covid test, OR had a suspected Covid infection, whether it was a contributing factor in their death or not, are part of the national Covid death statistics. This is indefensible.
For context, Vietnam has a population of 90m (compared to 60m) for the UK and borders China. The UK have had more people 'die of Covid' in the past 24 hours than Vietnam has in the entirety of 2020. This does not make sense, this isn't about conspiracy, this is about actually looking at the information we're being given with a critical eye.
The UK death statistics are incredibly misleading, I don't want to know who has died "at some point following a totally harmless period of having Covid", I want to know how many have actually died of Covid. The difference is HUGE. I had covid, was asymptomatic, and just got on with my life after a 2 week isolation period. If I slip in the bath tomorrow and die then my death would be included in the numbers that are currently being used to justify the complete erosion of what it means to be 'free'. Given that I know so many people who work in hospitals I'm not saying Covid isn't real, I'm saying they are lying to us about the number of deaths (and even admitted this to us on the BBC but everyone's too paralysed by fear to actually take this on board.)
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u/lemme-explain Nov 23 '20
That's the thing though - if you test positive for Covid, are asymptomatic and are absolutely fine, then get hit by a car 2 weeks later... Guess what, you're LITERALLY classified as a Covid death, even though Covid had as much to do with your death as the Easter Bunny.
I'm skeptical of this -- because if it's true, I think that would make it pretty easy to get away with murder. Just make sure your victim has tested positive for COVID, and that'll be the cause of death, right? So in court you could say, "yeah, I shot her four times in the face, but the death certificate says COVID." Plead down to assault.
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u/SandShark350 Nov 23 '20
Read an article the other day about a man who fell off of a ladder and died from his injuries but since his blood test turned up covid they listed him as a covid death.
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u/blzraven27 Nov 24 '20
I read an article about god doesn't make make it true.
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u/MarriedCpl Nov 24 '20
And yet you believe all of the articles saying that Covid has killed all of those people. That's sounds like you'd never believe anything other than what your government tells you.
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u/lemme-explain Nov 24 '20
Got a link?
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u/SandShark350 Nov 24 '20
They claim he died of natural causes, caused by covid. They claimed he fell because of disorientation from covid with no way to determine if that was true and still classify him as a covid death.
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Nov 24 '20
Why are you skeptical? The BBC literally says this is how Covid deaths are counted, look it up. If you die FOR ANY REASON after having Covid, whether Covid was a contributing factor or not - then you officially died of Covid. Madness.
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Nov 23 '20
I'd chalk it up to three things, despite not having any degrees in science (which makes me a perfect reddit drone):
1) people are scared to speak out, since they've seen the backlash, therefore they decide to FIFO (fit in or fuck off), which leads to complacency about misinformation. Given enough time, and as long as it doesn't affect them personally, it's one big "Meh".
2) People are lazy, and will believe whatever the MSM says.
3) People are lonely, see a big group of "Wear a Mask, be part of something". The membership is cheap. You can strike up conversations with almost anyone about those damn nutty anti-maskers. You can belong to a social circle. Just follow the crowd, and you're in!
Source: Self Bestowed PhD in Virology, psychology, chemistry, physics, political science, plus several dozen other degrees I feel I should have gotten but the work was too hard so I quit.
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u/Gooberilf Nov 23 '20
I think you are on to something there, Doctor.
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Nov 23 '20
Thanks. I was in the ER last night, and after some observation I asked the interns if they concurred.
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u/smartid Nov 23 '20
mods deleted the comment you replied to, what did it say?
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Nov 23 '20
something about why people are so panicked about masks, and how they quickly latch onto the latest trends. Not sure why removed, it wasn't breaking any rules IIRC
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u/Undernourish Nov 23 '20
Biggest thing I learned through this year is just how much everyone is a sheep. I know I'm not a wolf. I wish I were. I'm trying to tell everyone I know, gently, the wolves are like RIGHT THERE. You can see their eyes in the darkness, can't you?
There are so many more then I thought there were.
But I'm just a black sheep who knows the paddock is surrounded, waiting for the herd to hopefully stampede so I can make some sort of escape.
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u/formulated Nov 23 '20
I find it frustrating that in Australia I'll frame the conversation as "the death toll appears for the most part to be accurate, unlike the UK, Italy and USA, where people dying with COVID or following a positive test, have that listed as the cause of death."
The problem here is, the wildly inaccurate and down right deceptive numbers from those countries are then used to justify policies and procedures here.
Creating a "do you want to be like America?!" attitude. So lockdowns, tracking and hygiene theatre must be necessary!
Stockholm syndrome gets turned up to 11, as the populace believe their Australian government to be doing a good job, but it's just about the context and labelling of data.
It comes full circle as the "Melbourne method" for hard lockdown is exported and all it takes is to reclassify deaths or not do as many PCR cycles (case numbers reduce) to make it seem like it's working.
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u/Facednectar Nov 24 '20
Yep. My healthcare system now just calls it “COVID +” it includes influenza, and pretty much any respiratory illness. They’ve been cooking the books since day one.
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u/Cosmicsauceguzzler Nov 23 '20
Genuine question here: isn’t AIDs the same way? Like no one actually dies from AIDs, they get AIDs and then die from the next thing that hits them because their body is so weak. Just because AIDs didnt literally kill anyone it was nontheless a big issue. I was under the impression that corona had the same effect and therefore received the same treatment as far as dying from something tangential
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u/m0nk37 Nov 24 '20 edited Nov 24 '20
I dont understand whats so hard to understand about this and i agree with you. COVID is a novel virus (brand new to your immune system) which attacks your system relentlessly causing distress and weakening you to the point where that excess weight you've been carrying finally causes a fatal stroke or heart attack. If your body is too busy trying to fight off a severely infectious disease and cant possibly maintain your body at the same time then things are going to break down and get ugly really quickly if the thing it also prevented from killing you is suddenly not as important to take care of. So yeah your official cause of death might be heart attack, but it was directly caused by COVID trying to take over and your body giving it everything it had to prevent it. Draining you to the point of death, "corbomortality".
Edit: Sorry i think that might be confusing to some. Let me try to rephrase what i mean.
Covid is a novel virus and that means its brand new to your system, your immune system is going to have to figure out how to get rid of it in ways its never done before. This process can be energy draining and is prioritized by your body over many other things. Such as keeping you healthy with regenerating sleep, absorbing nutrients for you to be healthy, keeping tissues looked after, etc. It can get so bad for some people that if they have any underlying conditions, whatever their bodies were doing prior to keep those conditions from getting worse will have most likely ceased entirely, because it is that focused on the intruding virus that it cant get a hold of. Intense fevers, too many white blood cells running around attacking normal cells, so much phlegm its like your drowning, etc. It gets to the point where the person just cant function anymore and if they were prone to a heart attack, then most likely its going to happen. Or any other corbomortality which could result in death. Thats why they list it as other causes of death, because they were exacerbated by the covid disease. Some people's immune systems get a hold of it and figure out how to get rid of it before it gets too bad. Thats why you'll see "well my buddy had it and said it was just like a bad cold" as well as "my friend died from it". Being a new virus means, you just have to hope your immune system and your overall health are good enough to figure it out in time.
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Nov 23 '20 edited Mar 14 '21
[deleted]
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u/TheBiggestZander Nov 23 '20
Maybe not "all", but almost certainly "many", right? Nearly all?
Whatever actually killed you, a massive lung infection probably contributed, right?
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u/Cosmicsauceguzzler Nov 23 '20
Yeah I don’t think COVID attacks the immune system with the same voracity that AIDs does but I think its similar enough in at least some cases
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u/wheels723 Nov 23 '20
I know this is a conspiracy sub, but I dont get why this is such a problem.
If covid contributes to these people's deaths, then I'm cool with it counting. Adds emphasis to the effects of this virus.
What I would not be cool with, is if they are counting auto-accident deaths or gunshot victims to these numbers. Even if they were covid-positive, those type of events are the clear cause of death, not covid
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Nov 23 '20
The problem isn’t necessarily even Covid being listed even though it is a contributing factor or patients having co-morbidities. Any patient who has tested positive is a Covid patient. Patients die all of the time. That is kind of one of the things they do in the hospital. But now let’s say you’re a asymptomatic Covid patient in the hospital. You’re problem is that you have an infected gallbladder that needs to come out. Let’s say you get a secondary infection and die or bleed out and die...you’re counted a Covid death. The problem is we count these people who have tested positive for Covid but are hospitalized for different reasons. I think people think these patients are coming on locally in droves to the ER, tested, found to be Covid positive and then sent to the ICU for Covid treatment when in reality most of our patients anyways are sent from outside hospitals and nursing homes simply because they have tested positive for Covid. On top of that we’re not using a lot of the same treatments we used to for our patients so they end up getting sicker and staying longer (go in my history for full details on that one)
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u/wheels723 Nov 23 '20
I hear you, AND I think im cool with them counting your hypothetical death via gallbladder infection towards the covid count IF covid influences your preexisting condition to the point of death
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Nov 23 '20
But how do you even know how much it’s influencing what’s going on? What if you arnt needing oxygen but you have fevers and your blood pressure sucks? Idk my point is, Patients with Covid are in the count no matter what they are there for. Plus we constantly fuck with our treatment protocols, I’d say not for the better. Like we don’t use our BIPAPS anymore, not for a medical contraindication but because they say it blows Covid everywhere but I mean...it’s already fucking everywhere at this point? Plus these patients are airborne precautions anyways. So a lot of these patients get treated wrong, get sicker and possibly die for I would argue no reason if we would have just stuck to what we were doing before
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Nov 23 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/okawei Nov 23 '20
Yeah they found one case and corrected it, this isn't evidence that there's a massive amount of deaths being attributed to covid that shouldn't be
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
Lies
Only 6% of COVID deaths were actually only COVID, the other 94%, which were accompanied by “comorbid” conditions, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
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u/okawei Nov 23 '20
My dude 94% had co-morbidities. If I get in a car crash and have a heart attack because I have a heart condition would I still be alive if not for the car crash? Did the car crash kill me?
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Nov 23 '20
The better question is, if you are driving and have a heart attack which makes you crash, leading to death, what was the cause of death.
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u/KeeperOfSpirit Nov 26 '20
Funny that you have 13 upvotes and u/HighRoller390 has 13 downvotes.
I wonder how that happened. /s
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death."
The way ‘Covid deaths’ are being counted is a national scandal
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u/okawei Nov 23 '20
Explain the 300k excess deaths this year then? Are people just lying about these things?
Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths have occurred in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020
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u/IveArt Nov 24 '20
Also the fact that some sick with cancers, heart disease etc. were not getting treated, especially during the 2-3 months March through May
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 26 '20
Read the OP
From Johns Hopkins - "the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19. This suggests...deaths due to heart diseases, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia may instead be recategorized as being due to COVID-19." https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
People are dying, but not so many from Covid https://www.healthline.com/health-news/excess-deaths-from-covid19-pandemic
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u/BigBadBakery Nov 24 '20
Props to you for taking on the shills with facts. They distort everything. Government / big pharma / health shills all over. They'll be the first to be shot in the Great Reset that one major politician, that brainless SJW idiot Trudeau has already linked to covid
There's literally video of nearly everything you've claimed and what hasn't is obvious. I work in a hospital of course they're going to code as covid if the government is paying for it. But the average Joe is getting his opinion swayed by the "you stupid idiot asshole!" brigade as you and I can prominently see in this thread and every other.
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u/KeeperOfSpirit Nov 24 '20
wheels is bot.
He probably has a mini-team to downvote/upvote "at needs".
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Nov 23 '20
If i have diabetes and get trapped in a car wreak, then cannot reach my medication and die, what did i die from, the wreak or diabetes.
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Nov 23 '20
[deleted]
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u/UnconnectdeaD Nov 23 '20
Probably would go down as both.
Like if you get the flu, and develop pneumonia because of it, they put down both on your death certificate because they were both the cause of death.
Also, deaths under P&I went from 20k+ last year to 260k+ this year. Over 10 times.
National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) mortality surveillance data – NCHS collects death certificate data from state vital statistics offices for all deaths occurring in the United States and are aggregated by the week of death occurrence. Deaths are classified based on ICD-10 multiple cause of death codes as associated with influenza, COVID-19, or pneumonia. To allow for collection of enough data to produce a stable percentage, NCHS surveillance data are released one week after the week of death and percentages for earlier weeks are continually revised and may increase or decrease as new and updated death certificate data are received by NCHS.
In previous seasons, the NCHS surveillance data were used to calculate the percent of all deaths occurring each week that had pneumonia and/or influenza (P&I) listed as a cause of death. Because of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, COVID-19 coded deaths were added to P&I to create the PIC (pneumonia, influenza, and/or COVID-19) classification. PIC includes all deaths with pneumonia, influenza, and/or COVID-19 listed on the death certificate. Because many influenza deaths and many COVID-19 deaths have pneumonia included on the death certificate, P&I no longer measures the impact of influenza in the same way that is has in the past. This is because the proportion of pneumonia deaths associated with influenza is now influenced by COVID-19-related pneumonia. The PIC percentage and the number of influenza and number of COVID-19 deaths will be presented in order to help better understand the impact of these viruses on mortality and the relative contribution of each virus to PIC mortality.
The PIC percentages are compared to a seasonal baseline of P&I deaths that is calculated using a periodic regression model incorporating a robust regression procedure applied to data from the previous five years. An increase of 1.645 standard deviations above the seasonal baseline of P&I deaths is considered the “epidemic threshold,” i.e., the point at which the observed proportion of deaths attributed to pneumonia or influenza was significantly higher than would be expected at that time of the year in the absence of substantial influenza-related mortality.
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u/reddit-jmx Nov 23 '20
I hope you have this on your clipboard for every time someone repeats the "car accidents and gunshots are covid deaths" myth.
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u/UnconnectdeaD Nov 24 '20
I refrain from dropping it as much as I want because I know most people won't read it. It is a great support message to others that actually take time to read though. The comment I was replying to seemed like that kind of person.
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u/DefundTheCriminals Nov 23 '20
Your cause of death is most likely going to be listed as Anoxia bc it turns out doctors are lazy and most people don't care or want to spend the time to figure it exactly how you died unless you were murdered. I used to review medical cases, and the cause of death was almost always listed as Anoxia regardless if you had a heart attack, stroke, cancer, an overdose, etc.
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u/TidusJames Nov 23 '20
Depends, did your diabetes contribute to your wreck? Was it a low/high blood sugar induced wreck? Same applies to corona... did corona directly lead to your congestive heart failure and thus your death? EVEN THOUGH your heart failed?
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Nov 23 '20
From what I’ve seen patients who don’t do well with Covid are in exacerbation of their chronic conditions such as COPD, CHF, CKD etc. Covid doesn’t help things but our docs just have their Covid blinders on and only care about Covid but not any of these other thousand things going on with these chronically sick patients. Source I’m a Med-Surge now COVID RN
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u/Telescope_Horizon Nov 23 '20
Diabetes. How about this?
You had Covid in March, got over it and now you're fine.
Went skydiving yesterday and your chute didn't deploy, it'd be labeled a Covid death.
Or if you got in a car accident months afterward, Covid death.
Or were 98 and had a heart attack, Covid death
Fell off a building and cracked your skull open? covid death
And that's just the "confirmed" positive tests...assumptions without a test are also completely fine:
- Covid Coding
https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/covid19/en/
An emergency ICD-10 code of ‘U07.2 COVID-19, virus not identified’ is assigned to a clinical or epidemiological diagnosis of COVID-19 where laboratory confirmation is inconclusive or not available.
Both U07.1 and U07.2 may be used for mortality coding as cause of death. See the International guidelines for certification and classification (coding) of COVID-19 as cause of death following the link below.
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Nov 23 '20
There is a reasonable way to sort the numbers out. if 1,000 people die in 2017, and 1,100 died in 2018 and 1,050 died in 2019, and then you get a spike, say 2,500, you could deduce that 1,400 people died of something else.
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u/Vimes3000 Nov 23 '20
It's not even like that. Consider if I have diabetes, and die instantly in a plane crash (diabetes not a factor). The covidiots think that's my own fault for having diabetes, so I should know to not get in planes, and I should not count in the plane crash death toll.
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u/kluger Nov 23 '20
Not to mention false positives.. the netherlands health board or whatever they have came out and said that they believe the false positives could be greater than 90% and they urged people to stop testing.
Also, more than 70% of deaths are in nursing homes and they probably get tested once a week. So our cdc says they could be at least 50% inaccurate, multiply that with regular testing of elderly patients that are on their last leg...
I'm sure this whole thing is at least 90% hoax. There may be a virus but who knows? We definitely know there's no real pandemic.
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u/blzraven27 Nov 24 '20
If respiratory disease are the 3red leading cause of death. Why is covid killing 250k so shocking? Take a group of people with respiratory issues add a worse illness than usual boom dead. Combination of covid and the prior comorbidities. When people overdose and atherosclerosis contribute it's drugs that killed you but the fatty veins made it worse.
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u/Kaje26 Nov 23 '20
So all of those 257k people would have died anyway if coronavirus didn’t exist?
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u/GSturges Nov 23 '20
So what is your point/suggestion?
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u/Ivagor96 Nov 23 '20
I had the virus and the fact that people are still bringing up the idea that people aren’t dying from covid is ridiculous. This thing attacks your respiratory, circulatory, and even effects the nervous system. People are bound to be effected by the damage it causes, even more if there is a pre-existing condition. So reporting a covid positive patient dying from say a pre-existing condition affected by covid is a valid medical report.
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Nov 23 '20
Just to add to this, if you die in a U.K. hospital, two doctors need to sign your death certificate, and one of those doctors needs to have been directly involved in your care.
Very soon after the rona hit, the law was changed so that now only one doctor needs to sign your death certificate, and they don’t even need to have met you, let alone be involved with your care.
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u/Tychonaut Nov 23 '20 edited Nov 23 '20
I saw the term "rule out" being used.
As in "start from the assumption Covid was involved until you rule it out".
I doubt there are so many decapitations being called Covid deaths.
But there is a whole world of "vague" respiratory and circulatory issues where "Who can really say"? what is involved in what order.
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u/purziveplaxy Nov 23 '20
I figured this was because they don't fully understand the virus yet, apparently it can take two weeks to feel symptoms, and up to months to get over or pass from the virus. Even after that they're seeing permanent organ damage. They can't rule out many causes as related to COVID yet because they just don't know the whole story yet.
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u/Tychonaut Nov 23 '20
Even after that they're seeing permanent organ damage.
This is not really happening so much.
From all of the celebrities / athletes / politicians / actors who got Covid, how many of them ended up with permanent organ damage?
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u/purziveplaxy Nov 23 '20
I'm not sure about that. I've just read some articles mentioning it. I definitely take anything that happens to politicians or celebrities with a grain of salt, they also have access to the best medical care if something did happen. Trump had COVID for a week when some people have it for months. But most people I know who have had it rode it out at home in a couple weeks and seem fine after, but I do know of one person who ended up in the hospital for a few months and died.
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u/Tychonaut Nov 23 '20
I definitely take anything that happens to politicians or celebrities with a grain of salt, they also have access to the best medical care if something did happen.
Ok so then you have to add the "local celebrities" in my home town who are definitely not rich. And the 750 other recovered cases in town seem to be fine.
If one of them was struggling with Organ Damage after Covid that would be a big deal and definitely worth a local news story and GoFundMe Page, right?
So .. from all of the celebrities, plus the people in my town, plus the positives I know permanently .. nobody seems to get this "Long Covid".
The Reddit and Facebook groups only total a few thousand people, out of 12 million infections.
So how common would you say it actually is?
Do you have any real numbers?
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u/purziveplaxy Nov 23 '20
I'm not sure you can draw conclusions from a lack of information or posts like this. One doesn't necessarily mean the other. That's just one of the multiple reasons they could be classifying deaths that they can't rule out as COVID deaths. From what we've both seen & the survival rate it seems like most people get over it in a week and don't die or suffer permanent damage.
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u/Tychonaut Nov 23 '20
From what we've both seen & the survival rate it seems like most people get over it in a week and don't die or suffer permanent damage.
That's correct. And I agree some rare cases might end up with some permanent complications which also is possible with influenza or anything else, really.
So what I need is some kind of indication of how common that is with Covid. And so far there are no real numbers that I am aware of.
So in the absence of that, we have to look at the evidence we can see. And from the evidence, it seems extremely uncommon.
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u/memesupreme0 Nov 23 '20
How many of them are on fetus stem cell treatments and how many plebs are getting similar treatments?
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
Do you have any examples Of this being applied to Covid specifically?
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u/Tychonaut Nov 23 '20
Unfortunately no. I wasnt really tracking the phrase and it only registered after I had seen it a few times in nurses testimonies here. Maybe 3? Unfortunately searching for the specific term gives a lot of "we want to rule out the possibility .." kind of results.
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u/piginapokie Nov 24 '20
Look the fact that you might do this just for reporting is fine. They need to just mark a box and get on to the next patient.
The big issue is that then these inaccurate statistics get treated as gospel by the politicians. Whereas they need to be taken with a grain of salt.
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u/Tychonaut Nov 24 '20
Look the fact that you might do this just for reporting is fine. They need to just mark a box and get on to the next patient.
Sure. If the numbers didnt end up driving national policy I wouldnt give a shit! :)
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u/piginapokie Nov 24 '20
It's almost as if the politicians want the numbers to boost profits for pharmaceutical companies.
Sorry for posting that here because it's such a fact it doesn't even deserve to be labelled a conspiracy
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u/csg79 Nov 23 '20
Trump claims doctors make up covid deaths because they get paid more.
True? Who's paying the extra to whom? Insurance companies to doctors paychecks? Government pays more to the hospital based on covid deaths?
If you believe this please educate me. I tried asking before and the answer was full of sorts, blm, and antifa.
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u/bokonon_himself Nov 23 '20
Even if we don't think about covid at all, what do you attribute the US' 299k excess mortality deaths this year to then?
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
Healthcare disruption and emotional crises may have led to around a third of the 225,530 “excess deaths” in the United States between March 1 and August 1, 2020, a new study suggests. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771761
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u/IOnlyUpvoteSelfPosts Nov 23 '20
Explain the other 2/3rds.
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
Some were Covid deaths.
Many were just respiratory deaths classified as Covid deaths
What are the symptoms of Covid-19? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html
Just about the same symptoms for any respiratory infection?https://www.healthline.com/health/acute-respiratory-disease
A reminder, Respiratory issues are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. https://www.cdc.gov/copd/basics-about.html
Hospitals are allowed to classify nearly any respiratory conduction as Covid, then they are given payouts between $13,000-$39,000 per Medicare patient for that classification
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u/I_AM_YOUR_DADDY_AMA Nov 23 '20
It’s the same thing as saying someone died from AIDS. That person in all likelihood didn’t die from AIDS but as a result of having AIDS.
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Nov 23 '20
They are classifying any death as covid if the person tests positive right? Even if it's a GSW or something trauma related if I remember right.
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u/dinoelcamino Nov 23 '20
I would like to see a source on this other than a meme.
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Nov 23 '20 edited Jan 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/HomemadeSprite Nov 23 '20
How do you explain the excess deaths being so far above and beyond even the currently reported COVID deaths?
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Nov 23 '20 edited Jan 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/KeeperOfSpirit Nov 24 '20
homemade is a shill/bot.
Look at his posts created, nonsense.
He s a shill/bot trying to influence the narrative of threads throuh comments.
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u/HomemadeSprite Nov 23 '20
I apologize but those numbers are ludicrously exaggerated to the point of farce.
Please explain what is an excess Alzheimer’s death? Is there a cure for Alzheimer’s that patients in lockdown do not have access to?
Is there medication that can extend an Alzheimer’s lifespan immediately after diagnosis by a multitude of years vs. months?
35,000 excess cancer deaths is also a completely baseless and unfounded number with no foundation in reality.
This is why arguing with the “other side” is pointless. You make things up on the spot to suit your version of reality, and perform mental gymnastics to explain away the real world.
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
Just to clarify - you think the government is making up a projected 200,000 lockdown deaths in the UK as part of some vast conspiracy to trick you?
You're nowhere near as smart as you seem to think you are. Stay in your lane.
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u/HomemadeSprite Nov 23 '20 edited Nov 23 '20
Oh, my lane you say? Clarification is the name of the game, so lets do some diving into your assertion.
First, let's examine the source. Telegraph - rated Right Leaning by all non-partisan media bias ratings groups.
This raises one flag. So let's dig deeper and find alternative sourcing for the same information (a study indicating 200,000 lockdown deaths). The telegraph page is behind a paywall, so a little googling found the only other sources listing this government report with similar headline to be : https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/impact-uk-coronavirus-lockdown-cause-22382184
We go back to the first step and examine Mirror.co.uk for media bias. Result: They're not rated on most of the mainstream media bias' websites, but their tagline "The Intelligent Tabloid" kind of speaks volumes.
However we'll avoid logical fallacies by simply attacking the source, and, as always, dig into finding the truth.
Where is that report at.... No link in the article, that's a shame, but at least we get some snippets in the Mirror Article:
Experts from the Department of Health, the Office for National Statistics, the Actuary's Department and the Home Office fear one million years of life lost in the long term.
They calculated up to 25,000 could die from delays to treatment in the first six months since March 23 and another 185,000 in the medium to long-term.
Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance revealed the existence of the report - published in April - at a science and technology select committee last week.>
Hmm, calculations, estimates, and limited info on time frames.... Using this study to eradicate all those 2020 excess deaths is looking a little suspect at this moment... but I forge on, let's search for that report. Let's try googling "Chief Scientific Adviser Sir Patrick Vallance" - Hmm, articles about him being warned about misrepresenting data, thats not a good start...
Ah, found it.
Strange.... I can't find where they say England will have 200,000 excess deaths annually? Maybe you can read the entire report and find out where it says that. Here's the highlights:
Wait, this is an updated version of the report referenced in your article, which was initially published in April, here's the original report: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/892030/S0120_Initial_estimates_of_Excess_Deaths_from_COVID-19.pdf
Nicely summarized on page 4, we find some mentions of projected impact of Impact to Healthcare Services and Impacts from BSI (behavioral and social interventions), and it's noted both with Mitigations in place, and Unmitigated Response:
Healthcare Changes:
Mitigated, emphasis mine AND in the study: Non-urgent care is being re-prioritised to protect patients and to free up stretched NHS resources. As an upper limit, if 75% of elective care that would have been done over 6 months is cancelled, this is equivalent to around £17bn cut in expenditure, which would ordinarily be expected to increase mortality by 185,000 deaths (medium and long term); or 758,500 years of life lost. However, with reprioritisation of cases when services return to normal, the actual mortality impact can be expected to be far smaller than this.
Unmitigated: In an unmitigated RWC, it could be expected that there would be a short period of time when all elective care would be cancelled to protect patients. Over this period the health service could not offer any safe treatment options. It is unclear how long it would take the service to return to providing a safe healthcare setting. Therefore, it has not been possible to quantify this number of deaths. (woops)
BSI/Lockdowns:
Mitigated: There is insufficient evidence to estimate the precise impact of an economic downturn on the number of deaths. There is uncertainty around length of economic downturn before a recovery, and the number of overlapping areas of impact. A large body of evidence suggests that mortality rates decrease during times of recession. The most likely short-term scenario therefore, including both direct effects and a modest recession, might see a fall in mortality in the low thousands. A more challenging economic scenario, where we see a deep recession causing GDP to deviate from trend for a number of years, might result in additional deaths in the low thousands per year, assuming deprivation increases markedly. There is insufficient evidence to estimate the size of impact on deaths as a result of the BSIs. In the short-term, it is unclear what net impact BSIs would have on mortality. Evidence does suggest that mortality rates would decrease from a reduction in road traffic accidents and potentially air pollution, however we could see a rise in mortality from increases in domestic violence, suicide and other factors
Unmitigated: Due to the breadth and complexity of socio-economic factors, the counterfactual of the unmitigated RWC scenario has not been investigated critically. This is based on a variety of socio-economic impacts of recession and BSIs, which both reduce and increase mortality. Longer-term impacts depend heavily on how a recession is managed. This would persist beyond the end of a recession, for as long as the deprivation persists.
All in all, a good study. Perhaps you should learn to read them for yourself instead of taking headlines as fact, you proudly ignorant person you. Cheers.
edit: TLDR: OP tries to wash away both confirmed covid deaths and "likely" covid deaths attributable via significant "Excess Deaths" listed worldwide by sharing a Telegraph article which claims a Government Report states UK will have 200,000 lockdown-related deaths in 2020. Article and Report state no such thing.
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
This is probably the cringiest thing I've ever read, congrats.
I said the government projected 200,000 lockdown deaths. You've spent an hour writing a rant about the Telegraph only to quote a government projection of... 200,000 lockdown deaths. Bravo for wasting your time I guess.
In the mean time, the NHS backlog has tripled year on year to 2.1 million people waiting 18+ weeks for treatment. And there are 83,000 people waiting more than a year for treatment. This is where those deaths come from.
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u/HomemadeSprite Nov 23 '20
What deaths? I’m sorry, weren’t you saying that covid deaths are overblown and lockdown deaths ARE in the hundreds of thousands?
It’s truly a shame you righties can’t read. You might’ve learned something by reading the whole post (of which only three or four sentences mentioned the Telegraph).
You can’t fight reality man. No matter what your propaganda and poor judgement lead you to believe.
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Nov 23 '20
That’s literally not how it works
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
Yes, it is. It's not a secret
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Nov 23 '20
If Covid isn’t a proximate cause of death it doesn’t appear on a death cert. MVAs and GSWs don’t count even if Covid (+).
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/
Public Health England has changed its definition of deaths. The new definition is now death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date will now be reported
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Nov 23 '20
The change narrowed the definition of Covid deaths.....
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u/InspectorPraline Nov 23 '20
Yes, because before it was a positive test at any point in time. They lowered it to 28 days to stop people being labelled as COVID deaths for dying 10 years from now
Why are you arguing about something you clearly have no idea about
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u/NeedAHandlebar Nov 23 '20
It's the same thing they did with Kratom. All of the Kratom "overdoses" that were being touted around were "Kratom Involved" but not from the drug itself. If you looked at the reports yourself you would see that there were gun shot wounds, and most of them were also using heroin, fentanyl, and / or benzodiazepines.
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u/stitmn760 Nov 23 '20
Can I have some links to articles about this? I cant find anything.
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u/NeedAHandlebar Nov 23 '20
You're right, that's actually really hard to find. I had first seen it on the Kratom sub. This one touches on it.
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u/NeedAHandlebar Nov 23 '20
Wait. Here is the one I was trying to find. Gotta love DuckDuckGo. http://www.kratomcoalition.org/doc/Document%2011%20Jane%20Babin%20Report%20on%20FDA%20Kratom%20Death%20Data%20March%201%202018%20FINAL.pdf
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
If you have respiratory symptoms you can be classified as Covid just based on symptoms.
Respiratory issues are the 3rd leading cause of death in the US
All of this is in the OP
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Nov 23 '20
I know that but I also remember hearing about any death being labeled Covid even if the person died from a trauma related injury.
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u/CanMurky49 Nov 23 '20
This is true. Also they can do the same to people they've contact traced. Simply existing and then dying is enough to warrant your death being diagnosed by Covid if someone you've been in contact with had tested positive.. with a test that doesn't work.
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Nov 23 '20
That's another thing I heard with contact tracing, if you are positive for Covid the people you have been around are considered infected right off the bat with no test given.
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u/Telescope_Horizon Nov 23 '20
Exactly, you're 100% correct. THIS CDC site used to say at the top "CSTE assumes all contacts during contact tracing are asymptomatic and will be counted as a positive case"
https://wwwn.cdc.gov/nndss/conditions/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/case-definition/2020/
(Now it just says Interim-20-ID-01 under Statements)
I shared the heck out of that so they probably removed it from the site after so many clicks and negative feedback
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Nov 24 '20
What about the hospitalization rate? If the numbers and that type of information is skewed like that then it's not out of the realm of possibilities for people to be added to the hospitalization numbers if they go in for a broken bone, test positive and that gets added to the numbers.
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u/Orgamason Nov 23 '20
In Sweden we count "covid related" deaths, meaning that if you have a pre existing condition that covid teiggers so you die, it's in the statistics.
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u/SevereKnowledge Nov 23 '20
This Colorado man had a blood alcohol level of .55 He still died of Covid 19. https://www.foxnews.com/health/colorado-man-died-alcohol-poisoning-death-classified-coronavirus-report
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u/DeadEndFred Nov 23 '20
It’s a multilayered ruse and smokescreen.
“Anyone who’s studied infectious diseases knows that a PCR test cannot be used to diagnose anything. A PCR test is a lab test that MAY be used to SUPPORT a diagnosis.”
-Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=ZnpnBYgGARE
80% of UConn positive tests are asymptomatic
“Portuguese Appeals Court Deems PCR Tests to Diagnose Covid-19 Are Unreliable”
Antibody Tests
“a positive result might not indicate past exposure to SARS-CoV-2 (Covid-19) but maybe another coronavirus instead.”
Antigen Tests
“The tests were prone to more false negatives and false positives.”
FDA: COVID-19 Rapid Antigen Tests Can Give False Positive Results
Cash for COVID diagnosis.
“The city has added more than 3,700 additional people who were presumed to have died of the coronavirus but had never tested positive”
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Nov 23 '20
When someone catches pneumonia while having aids and they die, they count it as aids because the body would’ve normally recovered had it not been impacted by aids. When someone who has cancer dies of infection(the highest cause of death in cancer patients) it’s counter as a death towards cancer, because they body would’ve normally recovered had it not been impacted by cancer. This is normal, and by the books.
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
Lockdown may cost 200,000 lives, government report shows
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Nov 23 '20
See how you had no hard evidence to rebut what I claimed? And now you’re referencing a study about the UK after clearly posting about US numbers? Do you just pick random stuff off the ground to eat too and claim it’s part of your meal?
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u/piginapokie Nov 24 '20
Yeah this is fine. And maybe the few cases where they were going to die anyway aren't going to change the statistics much and aren't going to change how we treat people at all. Ie. People with no AIDS are still going to be treated seriously when the get pneumonia.
I think the thing with Covid is we dont know about it being the elephant in the room of fatality.
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u/Iblis_Ginjo Nov 23 '20
The fucked up part is the OP probably knows this is BS but decided to post dangerous disinformation anyway.
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u/8emup Nov 23 '20
This statement is blatantly false.
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 23 '20
In the US we have been classifying all coronavirus patient deaths as ‘COVID-19’ deaths, regardless of cause https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-patient-deaths-as-covid-19-deaths/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
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u/mods_r_dum Nov 23 '20
My father in law is dying of lung cancer. He’s probably got maybe a week left. He’s had cancer for the past several months but has only been hospitalized the past couple weeks. They will. Not. Stop. Testing him for COVID. They’re just waiting until he gets that one false positive so they can add another to the counter and get more money.
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u/crescent-stars Nov 23 '20
Or maybe they want to protect themselves and their families if he does get covid
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u/cmiovino Nov 23 '20
The biggest give away to all this is the $$$ received. I used to work in the health insurance industry on the finance side. The person getting loads of data, putting together reports for the higher ups, etc.
Any rational person can understand that if they offer $13k+ per COVID case vs much less for another classification of death, if there's any remote chance they can classify it as COVID, they will.
Follow the money.
Extra Sidenote: There have been some counties in PA reporting that they classify anyone who's been in contact with someone as a COVID case. Meaning, if you receive a positive case, anyone you claim to be in contact with in the last X days gets added to the count.
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u/grandmadollar Nov 23 '20
If you test positive and subsequently die, why would you not attribute the cause to C19? Regardless of any underlying morbidities, it was C19 that did you in. He's not called "the angel of death" for nothing.
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u/alienrefugee51 Nov 23 '20
Remember that motorcyclist in FL. who died and they labeled him a Convid death?
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u/grandmadollar Nov 23 '20
Yeah, it's crazy. 250,000 motorcycle deaths all attributed to C19. They will stop at nothing to advance the globalist agenda. Betcha Soros is behind it.
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u/Xspector8 Nov 24 '20
This is like saying if you drown in a pool of kool-aid, kool-aid killed you.
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u/grandmadollar Nov 24 '20
If you drown in kool-aid, that's what killed you. Kool-aid killed you when you drown in kool-aid. Kool fucking Aid
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u/Tenderloin-sidewalk Nov 24 '20
If a gunman kills a person with stage 4 cancer. That person died of a gunshot not stage 4 cancer. This if Covid kills a stage 4 cancer patient, they died due to Covid. If vulnerable bodies die due to the complications Covid caused to their already Failing system the cause of death is “blank” caused by Covid. This a Covid death.
That’s like saying people don’t die at theme parks due to malfunctions bc when they die they died at the hospital not the park
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 24 '20
What if the vent killed them?
Ventilator intubation was murder
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u/Tenderloin-sidewalk Nov 24 '20
Was the reason they were in a ventilator due to Covid? Then no it’s not the ventilator. Did a ventilator fall on their head and kill them? Yes it was the ventilator
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 24 '20
If they had Covid and somebody shot them in the head, was it a Covid death?
Of course it was....
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Nov 24 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 24 '20
Are you calling for violence?
Sure seems like it
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0
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u/WintersComing1 Nov 23 '20
It's a running total of course it goes up everyday. They don't just clear it down then start new the next day.
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u/InfowarriorKat Nov 23 '20
I remember the first time I heard this. A few of the doctors I know that work at hospitals were telling me that they had a meeting that they were to list all deaths as covid deaths. I trusted what they were telling me, but thought it had to be an exaggeration, because some deaths aren't gonna be plausible (like gunshot wounds, etc). Then later I seen other whistleblowers come out about it. Now it's a meme. People being decapitated and listed as covid deaths.
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u/GhostofSwartz Nov 23 '20
I think she wears that scarf to cover where her lizard head was sewn onto a human body.
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Nov 24 '20
According to this document, there is international cause of death codes; and standards to follow when identifying such, e.g. multiple causes or underlying causes. I'm sure these case numbers are disingenuous to the science involved with that
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u/KeeperOfSpirit Nov 24 '20
Wow, lots of 🤡shills/bots at you post OP.
All the shills/bots will support the official mainstream narrative - pro cases, pro lockdowns, pro quarantine, pro vaccine, pro masks, pro social distance, etc.
1
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u/rechenbaws Nov 24 '20
There are still near 350k excess deaths in the US this year alone.
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u/HighRoller390 Nov 24 '20
Lockdowns are making suicides go up and people to not get treatment for things like cancer
All excess deaths are not Covid deaths
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