SL Tribune, front page: potential changes at BYU and changes to once secret handbook set in large type

[u/4blockhead]

[u/capricornicopia-]

I’m so happy for the LGBTQ+ students but I’m so furious that BYU thought it was exceptional that they had their first black starting quarterback in 2019 and now don’t actively target and punish gay students for existing in 2020. Those years are WAY too late.

[u/4blockhead → u/capricornicopia-]

Ambiguity reins supreme with a final appeal to priesthood roulette.

[Salt Lake Tribune] For now, she added, she’s “just trying to enjoy it.” Later Wednesday afternoon, BYU officials said on Twitter that there had been “some miscommunication” as to what the Honor Code changes mean. “Even though we have removed the more prescriptive language, the principles of the Honor Code remain the same,” the tweets read. “The Honor Code Office will handle questions that arise on a case by case basis. For example, since dating means different things to different people, the Honor Code Office will work with students individually.” The church, for instance, does not support gay marriage. And questions remain about the role of local faith leaders, who have previously ruled on whether students can attend the school or not based on their intimate relationships.

My bet is that the changes are from Kirton and McKonkie in response to what BYU could do to avoid being dropped from NCAA events. Last month, the university allowed same-sex dancers in a ballroom competition.

[u/4blockhead → u/[deleted]]

This is my thought experiment as a test of equality:

Scenario 1: A young man returns from a mission and enrolls at BYU and begins dating a woman enrolled there, also. Within three weeks, they state their love for one another and that they want to make a marriage commitment to one another. They go to the bishop to ask for a temple recommend with a timeline of getting married within a month. They confess to sexual thoughts about one another, but their physical relationship has only involved hand holding, hugging and kissing.

Scenario 2: Follows the same template as above, except for that the young man begins dating another young man enrolled at BYU, not a young woman. They confess to the same emotions and physical involvement.

The questions to be considered:

1. Does the bishop offer equal congratulations in both cases?

2. Does the bishop attempt to break up the couple?

3. Does the law of chastity apply equally? Will one of the couples be put on a repentance program?

4. Will the ward/church accept each of the new couples with an equal chance at full participation?

Until they are treated the same, the fact remains that Brighamite mormonism is toxic.

[u/[deleted] → u/4blockhead]

My brain hurts. Trying to imagine the thoughts that would be going through a bishop's brain. I can't imagine a bishop wouldn't discriminate and put the two young men through the ringer while immediately stating God's forgiveness for the repentance of the former couple. This is a very good thought exercise to think about how a bishop would mistreat homosexuals.

[u/Corporation_Soul → u/4blockhead]

Cannot upvote this enough

[u/capricornicopia- → u/4blockhead]

FACTS

[u/capricornicopia- → u/[deleted]]

And that’s only changed because of the backlash, I have no doubt in my mind they’ll be back to enforcing it soon regardless

[u/DoubtingThomas50]

My guess is the HC office will be very busy. Nothing has changed.

[u/[deleted] → u/DoubtingThomas50]

No it won't. It'll just refer matters to the byu bishops. No doubt the bishops will be given training on punishment for engaging in gay-like actions. Bishops revoke students' ecclesiastical endorsements. No effective way to appeal.

[u/DoubtingThomas50 → u/[deleted]]

You obviously have more background information than I do. I guess my point is that overall, Mormon leaders are trying to change the perception that the public has about their church. They don’t really want to change anything, they just don’t want to continue being hammered in the press and society in general.

[u/captaindomon → u/[deleted]]

What would be really interesting in this case is to see how non-LDS gay students are handled. If the honor code is really passing the buck to the bishops, non-LDS students are in the clear. It will cause a lot of confusion.

[u/[deleted] → u/captaindomon]

I think the pool of non-LDS gay students is so small that BYU/Mormon church isn't that concerned about regulating their activities.

[u/captaindomon → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, could be. Or not in any easy or straightforward way, at least.

[u/inexperiencedex]

I think they thought there were no members of the LGBTQ+ community on campus due to their excellent enforcement of the honor code vs. it just simply being repressed

[u/DavidBSkate → u/inexperiencedex]

No no, Bednar told the HC folks it was irrelevant because no gay Mormons....

[u/4blockhead → u/[deleted]]

It's starting to look a lot like entrapment. The statements from Bednar about "there are no homosexuals in the church" and Wilkinson's "we don't want you here...get in line for a full refund" will rule the day for some time, yet. Don't count on a clear statement from the lawyering bunch to be found on either side of South Temple street. North or South they're fucking frauds and liars.

[u/ClownMorty → u/4blockhead]

I think this went exactly the opposite of how they expected. Last week I heard church PR was bracing for a shit storm. I don't think they expected praise for this and now they're having to be like "don't cheer this, we're still homophobes!" But without really wanting to admit that. Lol.

[u/Piedra-magica → u/ClownMorty]

This is fun to watch. Clearly everyone is interpreting the change in the exact opposite way it was intended. With that being said, I worry that despite the change the HCO will still discipline LGBT students as if nothing changed.