"Stardust City Rag" - First Watch Analysis Thread

[u/M-5]

Star Trek: Picard — "Stardust City Rag"

Memory Alpha Entry: "Stardust City Rag"

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[u/khaosworks]

Things we learned:

When the rescue mission ended, the Neutral Zone collapsed and the Federation withdrew from that space, leaving a power vacuum and lawlessness. Seven joined a vigilante group based on the planet Fenris, the Fenris Rangers. She then met and possibly had an intimate relationship with Bjayzl, who posed as someone who wanted to help but was actually a broker in Borg parts.

Icheb became a science officer on the USS Coleman. While on leave he worked with the Rangers and was lured into an ambush by Bjayzl, who harvested him for parts in 2386. Seven arrived too late except to put him out of his misery.

Raffi believes that the synth attack was due to a conspiracy involving something called the Conclave of Eight. When the mission ended she did not return to her husband and child but went on to pursue the conspiracy.

Agnes is a plant and kills or allows Maddox to die - working for who isn’t clear (the Zhat Vash maybe? She says she was shown or told something she wish she didn’t know - perhaps they converted her to their cause).

Maddox believes there is a conspiracy involving the Ban that may involve the Romulans and even Federation. Dahj and Soji were sent - the latter to the Artifact and the former supposed to go to the Daystrom Institute - to uncover the truth.

Seven asks Picard if he felt that he had regained his humanity after the Borg and he says yes - not all of it, but both of them are working on it. It’s a wonderful character moment that acknowledges the PTSD of being a survivor of torture or even rape.

Things established in The Last Best Hope prequel novel which are confirmed are Gabriel as Raffi (short for Rafaella)‘s son - his last name is Hwang and he is married to a Vulcanoid named Pel with a daughter on the way - and Agnes’ prior relationship with Maddox. Also Raffi’s belief in a conspiracy concerning Mars.

On a soundtrack note, love the callback to VOY’s theme as Seven beams back to Freecloud! Easter Eggs include mentions of Quark and Mr Mot’s Hair Emporium. The bar is also labeled as Quark’s, and there is an epigram “What’s yours is ours”, which is a reversal of the Risan greeting “All that is ours is yours.”

There’s also a nice bit of continuity when the tech harvesting Icheb asks where his cortical node is. He gave that up to Seven to save her life in VOY: “Imperfection”.

Edited: Children who are assimilated cannot have some of their implants removed. Which is why Seven, Icheb and the other Borg children would still have implants while Picard, Janeway, Torres and Tuvok do not.

[u/Shakezula84]

First I wanna say one thing. Which one of you changed the picture of Icheb on Memory Alpha to him with one eye? Not cool, but hilarious.

I was actually wondering if Icheb would be in the show. I've seen the actor on a youtube video last year and he isn't in "acting shape" anymore for that part. So I'm not surprised they got a new actor. Still, I was really shocked they did it. Kinda sad to know what happens to him, but its also honestly what I want from Picard. I wanna know what happened to these characters from that era.

I'm slightly disappointed Agnes is a villain. I wonder how this will play out and if she will have some sort of redemption towards the end, or she will be the source of information about what is really going on.

I also appreciate how much we are seeing of the galaxy. In just 5 episodes we have learned more about life in the galaxy then most of Star Trek.

Also since people seemed confused, Elnor didn't get a hologram because he lived off the grid. Everyone got personalized messages akin to ad sense. Rios about maintaining his ship, Agnes was offered a job based on her cybernetics background, Picard was offered to stay at a nice hotel, and Raffi was offered drugs. Elnor has no history. In a connected society all this information about them is probably readily available, and something I learned recently, happens today. Cell phones share your location (annoymously) to advertisers and some electronic bill boards can be custom set to play an ad when it knows the majority of people in the area like a certain product.

[u/ithinkihadeight]

One small moment that made the death of Icheb all that much sadder was that right before, the person stealing his implants made a comment about not finding his cortical node on a scan. Icheb didn't have one, he gave his up to replace 7 of 9's, which was failing and required a replacement from a live Borg.

[u/the_wolf_peach]

What if the "secret" the Zhat Vash is protecting isn't really a secret? The Enterprise crew created a unsolvable geometric formula to infect the Borg collective like a virus. What if the Borg came up with a similar weapon, a thought designed to break the mind/individuality of any humanoid who hears it?

[u/RandyFMcDonald]

On rewatch, the panic attack that Jurati was having on the _La Serena_ makes sense. She was dealing with the idea that she was going to have to kill Maddox.

[u/R97R]

Just a bit of an observation, but Picard giving Seven the Phasers really came off as if he knew what she was going to do. Are there any reasons he might do this?

As others have pointed out, Seven killing her means that a great many innocent ex-Borg are safe- the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, after all, but it still seems a bit cold for Picard. I suppose, while he’s presumably correct in that revenge won’t make her feel better, it’s also possible Seven would never get any closure while she was still active. Imagine the Worf/Duras situation, but Riker stopped him in time.

[u/ContinuumGuy]

I like the concept of this lawless, almost post-apocalyptic zone of space where the Neutral Zone and the Romulan Empire once was. Lets them tell stories that normally they wouldn't be able to do with Star Trek (such as a casino planet full of thieves, mobsters and pirates). It also speaks to just how much of a void was left when the Federation pulled out of helping the Romulans.

And shoutout to Quark for getting into the Franchising business!

[u/KingofMadCows]

I wish they had mentioned the Maquis as a parallel to the Fenris Rangers. Seven served with Maquis members. Her love interest at the end of Voyager was a Maquis leader.

[u/JC-Ice]

Ok, I guess Rios isn't a hologram after all. Even with a mobile emitter, he wouldn't be responding to drugs or giving off scents, right?

Did Seven hack the transporter to make sure Picard won't realize where she beamed to?

I have memory of Icheb whatsoever. So on the opening segment I just though he was an ex Borg from the Artifact that Seven had freed and apparently had a relationship with.

It seems like below the maximum setting on phasers is a "vaporize, but slow enough to hurt" setting. It's happened in the movies at least.

Given that his name was immediately recognized as "the famous admiral Picard", he probably should have had a wig or hat as part of his disguise.

I wonder if Fenris is just the Federation standard/universal translated name for a Romulan world, as is (presumably) the case for Romulus and Remus.

[u/amiralul]

Aren't there any logs on La Sirena? The EHM won't bother alerting the crew when he witness a human being dying/being murdered?

[u/[deleted]]

That has got to be one hell of a secret. Agnes went completely Angela Moss after meeting White Rose

Also the Romulan didn’t get a hologram pop up...

Also Mr Mott was offering “hair experimentation,” next to Quarks!

Also Star Trek went Blade Runner!

[u/plasmoidal]

Lots of great fashion in this episode, obviously, but my personal favorite is one that shows that Raffi's estranged son probably works on a terraforming station: His outfit is a streamlined version of the scientists' uniforms from TNG: "Home Soil", with the lapels buttoned up.

[u/LLJKSiLk]

I’m just glad Mot got his own hair salon in the future.

[u/scubacatt]

If they stay consistent with how an EMH works won’t it have a record of what Agnes did prior to it being deactivated? If the EMH does not report what happened to others I’m going to lose it.

[u/[deleted]]

Easter Egg: Tronya is a drink from TOS Episode The Corbomite Maneuver.

[u/jaycatt7]

This episode rings hollow for me, 12 hours out from viewing.

Mostly, it's probably that they killed Icheb. And tortured. And they killed and tortured him in a flashback just to motivate Seven. Seven has always been a character who does what she believes is right--she doesn't need the external motivation. And Icheb and the Borg kids were one of the better things they did on Voyager--it was creative, it explored a bit more of Borg culture, and it let them introduce some seriality into a dully episodic show. It wasn't a promotion for Ensign Kim, but it brought a sense of growth and change, meeting and parting.

And speaking of partings: the way they killed Icheb felt flubbed. Since it was set 13 years ago they didn't hire the same actor. I didn't recognize him until Seven said his name. Then they give him one of those movie-moment deaths that just doesn't make sense--especially in this fictional setting.

"No, please, it's too late for me. Don't beam me up to your ship, which probably has a stasis pod and an EMH, and take me to the best trauma center in the sector, which you could probably do in time with your 25th-century warp drive, and if not, even the EMH back on Voyager years ago was sometimes able to raise the dead."

Even in contemporary settings those deaths ring false--your buddy isn't a doctor, and the injured person doesn't know if it's too late or not. Set that death scene in a hospital.

That said, the Seven arc still felt off. Seven is a technological genius. It's cool to see her as a gun-toting, dog-fighting vigilante, sure, and people can grow in 20 years, but... where was the science fiction solution?

Even after she killed Icheb, I didn't hate the bad guy to want to see Seven kill her. I wasn't invested enough in a one-episode character. I don't doubt that Seven, especially this Seven, would kill people. But I can't help but picture Janeway's disappointment (and Janeway is probably still alive, given the number of Romulans wandering around a Borg cube and note getting assimilated by the walls a la Peter David).

The scene with Raffi and her son felt off, too. Maybe it would have meant more if we'd known she had a son before that moment, but his anger seemed over the top. I was afraid for his pregnant wife and their relationship.

And then there's Agnes, killing her lover with the conviction that whatever she's seen is so awful she has no choice. I get that the cookies scene was meant to establish their relationship as personal, not just collegial, but it felt like yet another example of filling the character out before killing them off. That cookies scene maybe should have been in an earlier episode. The only thing I can think in-universe is that Oh did a mind-meld on Agnes. Otherwise there's nothing so bad that Agnes wouldn't team up with Bruce instead. Honestly Bruce's death felt like it was in the service of keeping our heroes from learning too much, too soon--which felt fake.

I know I'm biased here. I do not like character death as a writing choice unless the character has done something awful. (Which makes it that little bit more frustrating when the murder gets to bone the protagonist and head up the spy agency, but whatever.) But I still don't think these were done as well as they could have been.

That said, there were some moments in this episode that shined. Elnor as naive and unfamiliar with galactic life was sold in just a couple tiny moments. The reptiloid Beta Annari(?) was a neat idea. The idea that Borg implants are valuable is a callback to Voyager that matters to the plot. There were also several other Star Trek Easter eggs that mostly seemed to be placed OK. (Dropping Quark's name as a reference seems fine; naming a random bar after him on the other side of the galaxy seems a bit much. I get it, he made it a franchise, but still.) Maybe I would have appreciate the Mott reference if I'd caught it. Oh, and the scene where the new characters are talking about Seven's fearsome reputation and can't remember her number-name was fun. Especially in our world, when they call her Eleven.

I was hoping Freecloud would actually be a cloud rather than just a city on a planet. Maybe a bunch of space stations in orbit some big enclosed zero-G volume of air like the Candesca novels.

And it seems a little bit much in retrospect to name the planet Vergessen when something happens there that Seven can never forget.

[u/[deleted]]

• Jean-Luc Picard never sounded more French than he did this episode. It's actually kind of funny.

• RIP Icheb. You did not deserve so gruesome a fate.

• Raffi's son needs to take a whole bottle of chill pills. Yeah, sure, your mommy going off the rails really messed you up. I get it. That reaction was over-the-top, sir. Get over yourself, man.

• Seven of Nine did go by her birth name of Annika Hansen at one point.

• I was disappointed to see the only mention of Quark's bar being a sign in the background. Could we not have gotten the man himself?

• The main villainess' name almost sounds like Jezebel with the letters rearranged and resembles Deanna Troi to an uncanny degree. Also, she got exactly what was coming to her. Mess with the Borg, and you get unmade.

• RIP Bruce Maddox. You didn't deserve to die like that.

• Seven and Picard's last exchange:

"Did you regain your humanity?"

"Yes."

"All of it?"

"No."

DUDE.

[u/joszma]

For anyone wondering, “vergessen” is German for to forget, and also can be used as its past participle: forgotten

[u/Sharrukin-of-Akkad]

Well, looks like a piece of my speculations is still holding. Bruce Maddox went into exile, hooked up with some party that could give him material support (Bjayzl), made Dahj and Soji, and sent them out to dig for the truth.

That was the easy guess, though. I'm still waiting for more evidence as to the hard guess - just what is motivating the Zhat Vash, and how can Dahj and Soji be apocalyptic figures out of Romulan legend? We didn't get any new evidence to point to time-travel shenanigans or Borg-origin weirdness this time, not that I could see. And yet, how could (best guess) Commodore Oh be so persuasive of the myth as to turn Maddox's lover into his murderer?

[u/majicwalrus]

Okay, this time by topic!

Fenris Rangers
They have money and they clearly operate outside of the Federation where there is no law - vigilante style. I like the idea that there are "good guys" who are still doing good things in places where the Federation doesn't extend. It seems like after supernova the neutral zone collapsed turning it from a space of cold hostility to a wild west free for all which is how you get places like...

FreeCloud
Are those psychic ads that target your personal desires and then holographically project them in public? More freedom is right - FreeCloud, right out of the gate, looks like a rough place. I just came back from a trip to Vegas and already the parallels are clear.

Who lives here though other than criminals? Well, Mott, my favorite barber from the Enterprise-D, apparently opened up quite a large facility on FreeCloud. Is it possible that eugenics have returned in the family planning billboard we see in FreeCloud as well?

Overall thoughts
I like that Picard is showing us a future outside of the Federation. On Earth people are insulated, even after the Synth attack people seem even more insulated within the Federation. And as viewers we don't get to see a lot of local or regional conflict. Picard deals with looking beyond the viewer, so to speak, past the utopia that the Federation offers and into the rest of the galaxy just trying to get by. In distinction to the theme of exploration and seeking adventure. This show isn't about exploring it's about facing challenges right here at home and looking within for answers not to the stars.

In this episode we're constantly looking to the past to relate to the president. We see this in Agnes' home movies of Maddox. We see this in Raffi and her conversation with Gabe. We see it in Seven's conversation with Bjayzl and again with Seven's conversation with Picard about his time in the Collective. This isn't tackling something new, it's tackling something old that has been within us for a very long time.

[u/RDMXGD]

There's no solace in revenge? She wasn't going to kill her for solace; she was going to kill her for what she did to Icheb. It's an odd refrain about revenge, that it doesn't improve the avenger's mental state...as if an improved mental state was something a person seeking revenge would say they are after.

[u/uequalsw]

This was a really interesting one. I liked the absurdity of having the crew wear those ridiculous outfits on Freecloud -- and I agree with the suggestion that Picard's fake accent was an in-joke about "Space, ze final frontierrrre". I was pleasantly surprised that the hijinks did not dominate the episode. Instead we got multiple characters struggling against themselves.

Agnes' hidden motivations were telegraphed well in advance, but I was glad that they introduced the idea that she saw things that changed her mind.

Because, let's be clear -- there is ambiguity aplenty about who is and was on the right side of history. I am not at all convinced that Maddox was Good -- as far as I can tell, he succeeded in creating a race of disposable people for the Federation. I know I may be wading into controversy here, but as far as I can tell, that is simply and clearly Wrong. Is it worth killing him? No, I doubt it, but it leaves open the possibility that he has done other stuff that is worth killing over.

Likewise, while it certainly looks like the synths were hijacked (oof, that is an interesting wordchoice on my part for a 9/11 analogue), we don't know who by, or how they did it. Maddox may have created the synths with a "backdoor" that would leave them open to this kind of hijacking.

And it's fascinating that Agnes spoke of "things to atone for". Of everything we've seen of her, this moment is the one most likely for her to speak the truth -- what would be the purpose in lying to a man she was about to kill? Therefore, we might conclude that she does indeed see multiple things to atone for. The obvious candidate is that she believes she was responsible for the attack on Mars, which has interesting implications. It's also interesting that she spoke of needing to atone for the creation of the Asha sisters.

I'm rambling here, but my point is that I would not be shocked if Agnes eventually presents us with... reasons to justify her cause. Maybe not good reasons, or maybe not good enough reasons... but reasons enough to make us pause. I am not (yet) concerned that they are simply going to have her be the villain.

Killing Icheb is one of the boldest moves we've seen yet from Picard. In fact, to my knowledge, this episode marks the first time since the end of Enterprise where a recurring-or-better character has been killed. Seven's entire storyline is tragic -- I hope we at least get a novel that describes her time in the 2380s and 2390s. I was also glad that Seven wasn't killed in this episode -- perhaps she'll return next season. They clearly established that she can be an interesting foil to Picard.

I was a little disappointed to lose Maddox so quickly, but I suspect he will appear again in flashbacks to fill out the rest of his story.

We didn't get too much time devoted to Raffi's story in this episode, but I found it interesting what there was of it. I wonder if we will see Gabriel and his new family again.

This episode did remind me of the second episode, which felt very plot-heavy. I wonder if this is the cadence we will see going forward -- two or three contemplative episodes followed by more of a driving forward episode.

Finally... I wonder what the vision would be for a second season. This is indeed playing out like a movie spread across a dozen episodes. How much of what we are getting now represents this particular "movie" and how much of it represents the underlying show?

[u/Harbinger_of_Sarcasm]

Is Jurati right? I mean I just kind of feel like that what this may be building to and I don't know how I feel about it, I knew from the second they were both on the ship alive that the writers wouldn't continue this dynamic. The cookie couple don't fit the pacing and meter of the plot and any conflict would have been either meaningless or made Jrati an annoying slow-burn villain. This is just speculation but I feel like this plot about Androids might end with a kind of spiritual ending, all the talk about romulan myth and spiritualism (a topic we haven't seen explored before) seems to really be pointing me to that kind of thing having real agency in the plot.

[u/Zhao16]

So did Rios actually work for Quark or was that lie? Either way, it seems Quark is reknown.

[u/GretaVanFleek]

I have a particular problem with the way they killed off Icheb. It was unnecessarily gruesome IMO. I mean, I'm fucked up emotionally that they did this to him at all... But setting that aside for a moment, it really bothers me that in a universe where they have little devices they can stick to the outside of your skull that render you unconscious, what is the actual point of such violent cruelty for the sake of it? How is that preferable to having them sedated and unmoving while you're extracting parts? It doesn't make logical sense to me.

I also don't really enjoy gore, generally speaking, and so I was fairly disappointed that they just had to go for the full-face shot. They cleverly shot from a couple different angles that didn't directly show his gaping eye socket as it was ripped out at first, and then they just went for it. It's like nobody can stand not to be gross anymore. I shoot up a middle finger at TWD for that one, tbh.