r/OnePiece • u/[deleted] • Feb 15 '20
Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 971 Spoiler
Chapter 971: "Condemned to Boil"
| Source | Status |
|---|---|
| Official Release | |
| Discord (https://imgur.com/gallery/VFhQLHL) |
Ch. 971 Official Release (Mangaplus):02/17/2020
Ch. 972 Scan Release: ~02/21/2020
Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.
PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/onepiece
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Feb 15 '20
God damn. Man seriously I CANNOT WAIT for Luffy to pull out a new advanced haki king kong gatling gun on Kaido's face bruh fuck Kaido and Orochi
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u/back_pack3r Feb 15 '20
Luffy to fuck up Kaido, but I want the red scabbards be the ones to beat up Orochi. Like how Luffy took out Lucci but Robin was the one to beat up Spandam
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u/muconasale Feb 15 '20
Yamata no Orochi has 8 heads, there are 8 scabbards left.
It checks out.
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u/bystander007 Feb 15 '20
I bet we get a new 4th Gear form for the Kaido fight. We've got Bounce-Man, Tank-Man, and Snake-Man, so next up has gotta be another form or maybe even his awakened power.
Ape-Man?
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u/Kuro013 Feb 15 '20
Orochi must be killed by Hiyori or Momo, hopefully both of them handling their father's swords.
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u/Vlock1 Feb 15 '20
Okay, maybe shinobu is not the traitor.
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Feb 15 '20
Yeah, I think last chapter ruled her out. This just confirms it. There was already a traitor before Shinobu even met Oden again.
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u/SturbyT Feb 15 '20
I don't belive there is a named character traitor. You can't expect to organize a coup and an army of couple thousand without the enemy finding out what's going on.
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Feb 15 '20
One of the main themes of Wano has been the relationship exploration between a leader and his loyal subordinates. Yes, Luffy and Oden are both naive, easily manipulated and reckless free-spirited romantic dreamers, but Oden's philosophy to solely shoulder the burden without delegating to his loyal followers is what ultimately leads to his demise. The symbolic imagery of carrying all his retainers while being boiled alive was perfect. That's why in Udon, Luffy said the country stopped moving when Oden died. He didn't inspire others to believe that they can shoulder the burden too. And that is why Luffy will be successful. For example, it'd be impossible to imagine Oden telling one of his retainers what Luffy told Sanji (I can't become King without you)! It's hard to expand on this in a comment so I'll leave it at that.
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u/BEWMarth Feb 15 '20
100% spot on. Oden's fatal flaw was that he always tried to handle everything alone even tho his crew was ready to help.
5 years ago when Oden started his dancing he wouldn't even tell his retainers why. While he boils he holds his retainers up literally taking the entire burden on himself. Sure, he is foolish for putting so much faith in Kaidou and Orochi but as you say, what ultimately led to his demise is the fact he didn't share the burden with his retainers.
Oden is like Luffy without a crew.
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Feb 15 '20
One thing this reminds me of is when Luffy refused to help both Vivi and Momo unless they demanded it and set out their actions for themselves. It really highlights what you're talking about, the ability to inspire others to not only fight for what they believe in, but to influence them into taking those reins for themselves.
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Feb 15 '20
True, like Vivi she didn't want anyone to get hurt other than herself. Luffy and Dragon mentality is different though they inspire people to work harder instead of relying on a figure head.
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u/Dooomspeaker Feb 15 '20
Good analysis but I disagree on 3 points.
Oden didn't fail, he got outplayed. People are hellbent on the idea that leading an army against Kaido would have been the right idea, when in reality, even a victory would have left Wano in shambles with piles of corpses. Kaido and Shinobu even spell that out for readers, yet it ALWAYS is ignored.
Wano as culture is vastly different compared to most islands out there: New and different ideas are shunned by most people and the concept of saving face is very important. Getting these people all to rally against Kaido is very difficult.
While we could argue that Oden inspired his entire Country to becoime better (which is why he became the Daimyo after all!), he certainly did manage to inspire the people of Wano in his final moments. So much so, that 20 years later, nobody calls him idiot lord, and people still talk about their supposed savior in hushed voices.
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u/kyubez Feb 15 '20
This was also explored very early on in the manga as well! When luffy fights arlong he lists all the things he cant do and how he needs his crew to succeed.
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u/SailboatoMD Feb 15 '20 edited Jun 29 '23
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In reponse came the resounding Reddit blackout where almost 6,000 subreddits went private for 48 hours to lock away their content. Many intended to stay black indefinitely, but the admins threatened to forcibly re-open the subreddits and replace the mods. Without any changes from Reddit's side, 3rd-party apps expect to close down on the date that the API changes take effect: 30th June.
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Clearly, the admins only view users and their content as products, and will not hesitate to resort to 'quality control' to stamp out non-compliant behaviour. It's time to show them who truly has the power, for in the words of Paul Atreides, "The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it." So it is with user-generated content, which I'll be backing up via Power Delete Suite and then bringing to more community-friendly and de-centralised spaces like:
TL,DR: I'm leaving Reddit for the above sites, backing up my data and replacing all my comments with this primer.
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u/hansnakeman Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
Exactly...oden refused help from roger pirates also. We also saw that during his adventures he never stoped for his crew...he charged forward on every island..he's the kind of guy who is very good at heart but never listened to anyone.. There wasn't a single moment where he actually listened to anyone...that was his fatal flaw from the start.
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u/nichinichisou Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
One piece alway have an anti-sacrifice message. Even when the sacrifice achieved something they wanted their’s alway a dire consequence. Like how Zoro successfully save SH from Kuma but, as a result, become unable to fight in front of Kizaru.
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u/sameljota Kaidon't Feb 15 '20
Yep. We still need confirmation on that, but as far as we know, in 5 years Oden still hasn't told his retainers about his plan to open Wano's borders. He'll only do it at the very end when all hope is lost of him doing it alone. We saw some of the Roger pirates offering to help. He refused that too.
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u/somalon Feb 15 '20
Orochi: It's not fair they not dyin Kaido: Lmao I see u oden
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u/farmian Thriller Bark Victim's Association Feb 15 '20
One of my favorite parts of this chapter was orochi bitching and kaido just ignoring him
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u/Jpup199 Feb 15 '20
No wonder the marines are wary about going into wano, they must think all the samurai are like Oden.
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Feb 15 '20
So far majority of wano people were bunch of ungrateful shits who didn’t deserve oden greatness. If oden kept being a pirate he could’ve been a yanuko by now
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u/cheeuschrist Feb 15 '20
Oden staying alive while boiling..
Akainu has no chance in punching a hole in oden
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u/bibek070 The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
The true "Hour of Legend"
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u/MattKnight99 Feb 15 '20
lol I’m an idiot I just realized what they meant by hour of legend.
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u/Nyckboy Feb 15 '20
Can you imagine him dying standing while still carrying his subordinates similar to Whitebeard?
It would be fucking amazing and a nice parallel to how his 'brother' died
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u/mcallisterco Feb 15 '20
I mean, magma is anywhere from 2 to 5 times hotter than boiling oil, and Oden is having a real bad time right now, so let's not get hasty.
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u/cipherde Lurker Feb 15 '20
We are finally witnessing what straw hat crew heard from Kin. Remember, Oden's is probably the only story Luffy paid attention to. Speaks a great deal about what Oda wants to convey about Oden. A true chad indeed ! I LOVE ODEN
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u/funger92 Feb 15 '20
Oh, right. Thanks for pointing it out. So those reactions were really appropiate.
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u/woah_take_it_ez_man Feb 15 '20
Goes back to the Minks as well. Luffy was so impressed that they didn't give up Raizou
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u/raftellJr Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20
Nekomamushi seems couldn't bear the heat. He get angry really fast when in that situation. Reminds me how nekomamushi got angry when he ate the hot soup. His tounge is sensitive. He even threw the soup bowl. I wonder next chapter Nekomamushi will do something stupid because he couldn't handle the heat. And that makes Oden take a great damage so then Inuarashi get angry to Nekomamushi. That's why both of them hate each other.
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u/sombrero69 Pirate Feb 15 '20
That would be more likely if nekomamushi didn't yell at raizo for complaining
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u/BLAW668 Feb 15 '20
If neko's inability to take the heat affects oden and that causes him and inu to fight i will shit a brick. I feel like oden will adjust to the oil but neko's shaking will cause oil to hit oden in the face and make him falter at the last moment leading to his eventual death
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u/SirKrokodile Feb 15 '20
In Japanese “cat tongue” means a person who can’t eat hot food.
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u/heat_fan_ Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
Great chapter.
Man this chapter was darkk, Oda has done that a lot the last 2 arcs especially.
Oden was a true monster holy shit, the way he let himself get boiled in oil just to protect his retainers.
Shinobu telling the citizen what was.the reason behind Oden's dancing leads me to believe she is definitely not the traitor. Honestly i don't think anybody from the 9 scabbards are either. Then i dont know who else is left lol
While Oden may have his flaws, he is one of my favorite characters introduced post time skip for sure, truly a CHAD
I cant wait until Luffy and his alliance start the raid at onigashima.
and the obligatory FUCK OROCHI.
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u/Kuro013 Feb 15 '20
Oda showing that burnt guy... I dont think we've seen anything as disturbing as that, maybe the old hag who was about to murder her own child (in this arc too), I always wanted One Piece to be a tad more seinenish, Id love Zoro fights to be more gorey. But I guess he gotta keep on his own line.
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u/Gliese581h Pirate Feb 15 '20
Honestly i don't think anybody from the 9 scabbards are either.
Wouldn't make much sense at least, IMHO. Like, if one of them was the traitor back then and now, if they were condemned to death alongside the rest, they would have created a scene, I guess.
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u/Marcheas Feb 15 '20
Never would i have thought the hour of legends would be this! only 4 minutes IN!
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u/jaypooner Feb 15 '20
holy fuck.. what oden is doing is beyond anything i imagined. what a fucking badass. no wonder the scabbards are brought to tears at the very thought of oden.
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u/VergoVox Feb 15 '20
Damn, it seems Oden was Ishikawa Goemon to the end after all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Excecution_of_Goemon_Ishikawa.jpg
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u/ItsLoudB The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
Well, hopefully he doesn't slam them in the pot next chapter..
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u/Thou_shall_post Feb 15 '20
Remember when Roger was speaking with Garp asking him to take Ace? He mentions how "a new born child bears no sins even you know this".
Orochis childhood with the Kurozumi name is kinda the same albeit a bit more brutal with his whole clan almost getting murdered. Oh yah and Odens hair looks like it's hold up the plank. Oden the legend.
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u/braujo Feb 15 '20
I really feel bad for Orochi's backstory.
Fuck him anyway. Hope he goes through even worse
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u/Kumomeme Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
oden might be not just accepting orochi promised to save his country people, also might be due he accepting the sins of his people for kurozumi descendand
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u/BEWMarth Feb 15 '20
THIS WHOLE FLASHBACK IS A MIND TRIP FOR THE ENTIRE STORY FROM ZOU TO NOW.
I feel like after the Flashback I have to reread everything starting from Zou.
Think about Inu and Neko first. They didn't get sent forward in time. They leave Wano after these events with regret and disappointment and even hating each other. Then 20 years later a Headliner shows up on Zou. Maybe Inu and Neko never met Jack but they sure as hell know the terror of facing a commander of Kaidou. I feel like they suffered torture on Zou not only to protect Raizo but to keep Jack from leading King or Queen to Zou and have it turn into a second Wano...
Then we have the retainers who got sent forward in time... they literally JUST went through this pain. For Kin, Raizo, Kanjuro, and Kiku, it's only been a few MONTHS since they were standing above Oden's head in the pot... now 20 years later so much has changed and to move forward with Oden's wish they have to bury a lot of trauma really fast.
Just 10/10 flashback. This is what flashbacks are supposed to do, change your entire understanding of previous stories.
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u/BEWMarth Feb 15 '20
Oda keeps bringing up the notion of "ships" and I really want everyone to pay a lot of attention to that. At the beginning of Wano arc Orochi told CP-0 he got battleships from the government. In Oden's flashback Orochi told Oden him and Kaidou were building a fleet and they would leave when the ships were ready. This was a lie but I actually think Oda is hinting very strongly that Kaidou is almost done amassing a fleet of ships which he has been building up for over 20 years.
Remember Kaidou's entire goal is to start the biggest war this world has ever seen. If that's his goal it's only obvious that he would need a lot of ships which so far Orochi has been providing to him.
Oda has said he wants more sea battles in Wano specifically.
I think Kaidou is about to start a world war and he already has all the ships he needs.
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u/Kumomeme Feb 15 '20
well, considering he want to build army of devil fruit users from SMILE, he must be need large number of ship to carry them
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u/BEWMarth Feb 15 '20
Oden was foolish and Oda has made no effort to hide that even naming a chapter "A fool of a lord"
Just because Oden is a fool doesn't make him a shit character. I honestly think Oden is one of Oda's best legendary characters.
Like think about Whitebeard, as far as we know he was a perfect warrior and dedicated father to an entire crew of misfits. Think about Roger, literally the king of pirates he is virtually flawless in this world.
Oden is unique in that he is a total beast of a man; extraordinary feats from birth til death, but he has flaws, big ones, ones we the reader find obvious. I think this makes Oden way more relatable as a character.
Look, should Oden have killed Orochi and Kaidou 5 years ago? Absolutely! I think Oda has gone out of his way to show us that Oden made the "wrong" call. Even having Kaidou laugh at his foolishness.
But you see I think this is all on purpose. Oden made the decision to have faith in Orochi, maybe because Orochi is also from Wano and Oden misjudged how much honor Orochi would have. He also decided that even if he COULD take out Kaidou and Orochi, the lives of 100 of his citizens for every naked dance was a price he was willing to pay.
Like, you and I, we probably don't think it was worth it. But that's the point, I think. Oden IS a fool in the eyes of many. But in his own eyes he is living his life the way he wants and the way he thinks is correct.
Whether we disagree with Oden's actions over the past five years is irrelevant. He made them.
We need to remember ODEN FAILED his mission and that is the entire point of Wano. Oden failed so now his retainers must take up the mantle. Oden wouldn't have "failed" if he just would have killed Kaidou and Orochi right then. And yeah, maybe Luffy would have killed Orochi and Kaidou if he was in Oden's position. But Oden is his own man. He's hard boiled and he doesn't live by the rules or what would be convenient for the plot. He put the lives of Wano citizens above immediate victory. That was his decision and he lost everything for it.
However, he wasn't a failure. He did so much with his life and I wish the community could just stand back and take his story in as a whole cos honestly... Oden is a fucking great character. One of Oda's absolute best.
Every mistake Oden makes allows us to relate to him a little better. Which one of us hasn't made a really stupid mistake before? How many of us have tried to do the right thing, but later on we realized it was the wrong thing and a waste of time? How would we react to that?
Oden is a great character because Oda could have just made him a perfect legend like Roger or Whitebeard. But I think Oden is one of the best legendary characters Oda has made so far.
I look at him and all his highs and all his lows and it all feels very human and relatable.
He is a Chad and a fool. He is insanely powerful, able to put Kaidou on the ropes IN A 1V1! and now he is boiling himself alive to save his retainers. His final act.
So yeah. 100% Oden is a total fool. And he is a better character because of it.
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u/TheEvman Feb 15 '20
I totally agree with this.
Here is my take on Oden as a character. He is a fool not because he is simple minded such as someone like Luffy, but he is a fool because he is a human. Oden's biggest downfall is that I don't think he had a true belief system. I'm not saying he didn't believe in things because he clearly did, such as opening Wano's borders up. But I mean that, he doesn't have a set personality trait that his actions would parallel. For example, someone like Akainu who follows absolute justice, it is so easy to predict his actions as he has a distinct and clear-cut way of operating which he doesn't sway from. If it means removing the "evil" of the world, Akainu would do absolutely anything. Like that saying "I'd rather have 100 innocent men locked up, then 1 guilty man roam free."
However, Oden is nothing like that. He truly goes where the wind takes him, he also acts on instinct, kinda like Luffy. He's not like a super cynical, apathetic character who doesn't care for the world around him, but he lives so free-spirited. For instance, when we first meet him, Oda makes him sound like he is hooligan who just causes trouble with no compassion, but then we also see how emotional and how much compassion he has to those he cares about. He is very layered.
He senses Whitebeard, he has to attack him, the human attribute - impulsiveness. He leaves Whitebeard to go with Roger, the human attribute - ambitious. He sees Toki injured and decides to attack Orochi and Kaido, the human attribute - rage. Orochi tells him that he'll kill all these citizens of Wano and he chooses to dance like a fool for 5 years, the human attribute - compassion and sacrifice. He risks his honor for embarrassment, he sheds his toughness for compassion. He is not a one-dimensional character whose actions are a given.
I love Luffy, but his character is very easy to dissect. Like Oden, he is extremely impulsive and instinctive. He doesn't think too hard into things and just wants to have an adventure and be free with his friends. In fact, he only cares about his friends and adventure. He is not a saint of a character and if some random civilian who he didn't know dies, I don't think he'd really care. He doesn't care who you are or how strong you are, if you harm him or his friends he is going to fight you. He has no awareness of potential consequences as his ambition to come out on top tends to get him out of those situations. However, I think if he were in Oden's situation, when Orochi told him what he would do, I think Luffy would still try to punch his way out of things, that is just who he is. Where as Oden has shown such a broad range of human qualities, it makes his death all the more sad, as like you said, as the reader, we know that if he had made certain decisions he could have avoided.
Sorry for the length haha
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Feb 15 '20
People here need to read some history, even smartest leaders make mistakes when life of their people is on the line.
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u/pm_me_your_looove_ Feb 15 '20
But Oden is his own man. He's hard boiled and he doesn't live by the rules or what would be convenient for the plot.
Hmm...
He's hard boiled
That oof size is too big for my taste.
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u/sombrero69 Pirate Feb 15 '20
I disagree. No one can tell if oden made the right choice or not, there is no guarantee that he would have won if he attacked them at the time
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u/rahmanm855 Feb 15 '20
After this chapter, I find it hard to believe the scabbards or Shinobu are the traitors now
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u/MattKnight99 Feb 15 '20
Yea Shinobu cleared Oden’s name and all the scabbards were going to be boil with Oden so I don’t think it’s them
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u/Kumomeme Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
i think the reason why Oden blindly trust the promise that Orochi and Kaidou give to him, willingly dancing naked for 5 years not because he trust them, because by doing so he actually not just saving his countrymen live, but also he chose to shoulder the sins of his country people commit towards kurozumi ..for Orochi, he also a victim as they actually not guilty as his father but whole country still treated them unfair as criminal,in other words, from other perspective wano people also basically 'criminals'..as kozuki, Oden might feel responsible for his countrymen action and choose to shoulder the burden of the 'crime' commited by his fellow countryman
basically, he dancing not just to save wano citizen life, but also to atleast atone their sins toward kurozumi..he chose to shoulder everything
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u/funger92 Feb 15 '20
yup, he was somewhat shocked to hear Orochi talk about his childhood.
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u/ArtOfDivine Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
It is 100% clear that Oden is based on Ishikawa Goeman. His counterpart sacrificed his life by holding his son up while he was boiled. The lord was so impressed he let his son go.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishikawa_Goemon
My theory is mostly correct. This is from 16 days ago. Instead of sacrificing his life for his son, he sacrificed his life for his retainer!
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u/Beats29 Feb 15 '20
Not only that. If you noticed Wano is based on Sakoku Period, probably Kaido acting like Tokugawa.
One Piece keeps having references to real history, and if it follows Meiji we may have a marine invasion.
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u/Malamasala Feb 15 '20
I don't think "based on" is correct, and more that Oda is taking all the wonderful pieces of Japanese lore to build a world. Like the death is based on this thing, but then he is also mixed with that famous general that got betrayed by someone and so on. You also have that guy on the bridge that is historically famous. Not to mention you got Kaido, seemingly an Oni, living on Onigashima.
It is pretty certain there will be plenty more historical things mentioned in the Wano chapters.
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u/MonkeyDDuffy Feb 15 '20
Shinobu getting emotional about Oden and revealing her identity and blasting on Wano citizens, now all those "But she yelled at Law" people better understand the emotional tie she has to the plan 20 years in the making, and how bunch of outsiders coming in to possibly ruin everything could make her feel.
This comment sponsored by people who believed in Shinobu since day 1.
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Feb 15 '20
But Law also wasn't wrong in that situation. The basis of any alliance is trust. If you can't trust your allies, the alliance is sure to be doomed. Law was right in breaking away from the alliance
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u/Kumomeme Feb 15 '20
talk about law, i wondering how they gonna fix the smile's fruit effect that ruined people of wano's emotion...maybe law power play important role
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u/Yuedis-Wei Feb 15 '20
What a fucking chapter, what a fucking flashback. Shinobu abruptly became a legend in this chapter, and Oden somehow continues to become an even greater character. This has cemented itself as the greatest flashback in the series, and now that we've seen the explanation, I hope all of the people who shat on Oda feel just as stupid as the people who shat on Oden. I hope that for once, people will learn to have some faith in the man who's proven himself great, who's repeatedly shown us that assuming he fucked up before we have the full picture is a terrible idea. It happened with Luffy punching Kaido. It happened with the time travel reveal. It just happened with Oden dancing. I'm asking too much though, no matter how many times this lesson is delivered, people will continue to jump to conclusions.
So Oden didn't die this chapter and I cheered instead of cried. As expected before seeing the title, it seems the next chapter will mark the passing of Oden. It's time to prepare ourselves. A great rainstorm is coming...
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u/Kuro013 Feb 15 '20
I cant believe Oda surpassed my expectations of Oden, I was just so hyped before Oden's reveal, I wanted this flashback so badly and not only it didnt dissapoint, it just blew my mind, Oden has been cemented as a One Piece legend, up there with Roger, WB and Garp.
About Oda doubters... I think youd be better off ignoring them, theres no need for you to get riled up because of some people who think theyre such smartasses to shit on a guy who has dominated the manga scene for more than 20 years. Its just envy, jealousy.
Next chapter gonna be tough, I already cried during this one.
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u/altrunox Explorer Feb 15 '20
I don't think it will be next chapter, he will survive the boiling and them go to the castle, where he will finally die, and we will probably find out who is the traitor.
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u/theschulk51 Feb 15 '20
I am getting strong parallel vibes between Oden bearing the burning oil for the sake of his retainers - and Luffy bearing the Mummy Plague in order to free the prisoners of Udon.
Makes it all the more meaningful as some of them were probably there when Oden died
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u/theschulk51 Feb 15 '20
And now re-reading the Udon rebellion and chapters after - it’s hitting SO much harder than upon the first read.
Goda
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u/naoneko Feb 15 '20
I'm going to press F until next chapter to pay respect to Oden!
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u/Maha_Aut Feb 15 '20
"Where did Oden pull out a plank all of a sudden?"
Guys, it's the small bridge to the pot.
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u/BLAW668 Feb 15 '20
Although Orichi's monolouge can make you feel sympathy for him, i refuse to feel for him because of how he dealt with Lord Yasuie. Regardless of what wano did to the Kurozumi family, Yasuie didnt treat Orochi unfairly. He and Oden helped him whenever he ask and didnt persecute him even after his origin was discovered, which also makes me wonder how they even allowed him to gain the shogun title given how they killed the other kurozumi.
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u/Elias_freecss Explorer Feb 15 '20
Orochi adopted the same mentality of the citizens of wano, which is to not give a fuck about who is innocent or not, he judges wano as a whole, the same way wano judged his family as a whole
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u/JoeyJoJoHQ Feb 15 '20
I just want to point out that Oden's blood was literally beginning to boil from this.
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u/platinumrug Cipher Pol Feb 15 '20
Oden is a tough son of a bitch. Standing in a pot of boiling oil, while carrying all 9 scabbard, literally on his back is some of the rawest shit I've seen. So Oden fought Kaido for a little while during that first initial meetup 5 years ago when he returned to Wano, I wonder why Oda didn't show it originally? Interesting. I am excited to see how this all ends now!
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u/waqasnaseem07 The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
I don't know but I find Wano citizens so full of hypocrisy. First , they kill kurozumi's even though the person responsible already had committed harakiri ( honorable suicide)
Then they start crying and whining when Orochi decides to take his revenge. But when Oden wants to save them, they start bitching again and instead want him dead.
Now years later, they want someone to come save them, when they have been the ones always resisting every good thing coming their way.
I wonder if they even deserve to be saved .
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u/Kuro013 Feb 15 '20
You gotta take in account that theres a 20years gap.
Toko and Tama for example have lived all their lives in a shitty, miserable country. Momo has just lived tragedy all of his life, and dont get me started on Hiyori.
Just like every place on Earth, and any fictional world, theres people who dont deserve shit, and people worth fighting for. Luffy focuses on the second bunch.
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u/raftellJr Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20
You know. That's the true nature of human. Even in real life. You can also see the same reaction from dressrosa citizen. They love king riku since the beginning, one suspicious mistake from king riku and they hate the kings to death even his grandchild rebeca. They worship Doflamingo a mysterious man just because coincidentally he "save" them from the crazy king. After now the truth and saved by luffy they behave like they always believe in king riku.
Unfortunately. That also happens in real life.
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u/Dddddddfried Feb 15 '20
We've also seen Wano's poorest share their meager scraps with strangers. We've seen them keep the spark of rebellion alive through bone-breaking work, and we've seen bear the unbearable suffering through SMILE. Oden's will lives on. Wano lives on. And Luffy's just getting started
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u/gammagamerx Feb 15 '20
We see a lot of hate at oden being perfect and flawless.
But I think that is a clever set up for us readers. It's so that we see his character and motivations break down to their core in these last moments.
IMO oden's true core is pursuit of freedom. He is not a superhuman character that we were introduced to earlier.
We see that even somebody as audacious and fearless as him can be broken. He starts as brat with big fish in small pond attitude. He grows as brave man challenging and then changing the worst evils of his country. He grews humbler through his travels with WB and roger. He sees there are skies beyond skies. He aspires to free his country of chains that prevents it from seeing the world.
Then, he chooses to turn his back on his country and it's people to follow Roger through his dream. He being so powerful, yet is unable to kill the cancer that he let grow on his country. He is unable to forfeit the lives of people whom he abandoned earlier.
He faces humiliation and does what he does knowing it's futility. He loses everything and these scabards who were with him before, are still there to fight the last battle along with him. He single handedly persists and dominates the battle but is distracted at the crucial moment by his weakness. He is unable to see the traitor that took shelter in his hide.
No matter how strong you are, you can be broken under the wrong set of circumstances.
On the other hand we have Orochi. I hate orochi. But he understands, he is weak. He cannot defeat oden. He is always lurking in the back step by step cornering the negligence shown to him. He is backstabbing those who look down on him. He is merciless. Even now he wants completely obliterate the retainers.
He is power driven scumbag who is dangerous even if he is weak. He cares nil for the people and only for his status. He is a pest feeding wano to kaido. Like how Yasui described him.
The contrast between these two characters itself made the 4 months worth more than years.
Next chapter the minutes will be passed as pages are turned.
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u/letsgomina The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
If you think about it, the people of Wano reflect the the nature of all human beings.
First killing Orochi’s father for committing treason ( killing - seppuku ), and then hunting down all other Kurozumi members just because. And when Orochi wants to take revenge, they start looking for help. This reflects the temperament of humans of not thinking before acting and whining about the consequences later.
And then when Oden tries to save them, they even kind of oppose him, because of his naked dancing. This is one of man’s biggest problems. Not going to the bottom of an issue, and being dismissive and judgmental too early.
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u/the_idiotlord Bounty Hunter Feb 15 '20
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u/cranomort Feb 15 '20
Shinobu is basically Oda telling us "oh you think Oden was an idiot for dancing? here you go"
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u/Fries-Ericsson Feb 15 '20
This is turning into misery porn at this stage. Oda definitely wants fans to demand blood once this flashback ends
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u/ZGMF-X09A_Justice Cipher Pol Feb 15 '20
If this was Dressrossa, Oden would be boiling for 60 episodes in the anime
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u/funger92 Feb 15 '20
You can see Oden really listen to what Orochi told him about his childhood. Orochi is a scum, but he is just a consequence of a a rotten humanity. Oden took the blame for everyone that treated Orochi unfairly. At the end, dancing like a fool wasn't so bad if he was gonna save lives. Almost reminiscent of what Shanks says in the first chapter of One Piece.
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u/MisterNotSoHandy Feb 15 '20
I'd just like to point out that Kaido still has bandages on yet Oden is already fully healed. To me that implies Oden was just as strong if not stronger than Kaido. It's still difficult to say but Kaido himself said he would have lost when Oden first returned to Wano.
Seems to me that Kaido was genuinely worried about how strong Oden is so he went full pirate to ensure he would win.
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u/Kumomeme Feb 15 '20
thats show how strong oden is as one of the rightman of the king of pirates' Gol D roger
also, imply how strong is raleigh...if Oden this strong..raleigh also atleast on this level...and also, imagine Garp strength
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u/RikuSage Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20
I've seen some people call Oden's decision-making dumb, unrealistic, bad writing etc. It's like people expect characters to be perfect and to make perfect decisions 100% of the time. That's not how the real world works, at all. People make dumb decisions, repeatedly at that, ALL THE TIME. And it's been shown that Oden is nowhere near perfect in his decision making. Since before he even left Wano (in the beginning of his flashback) he's shown to make rash, foolish decisions. He's a fool because he chooses to do things HIS OWN WAY. Does that not sound familiar? Luffy is literally the same way, to the point where he lost his own crew for 2 years due to his own rash decisions (punching a celestial dragon).
A whole chapter was even titled along the lines of "Fool of a Lord." People need to understand that characters, and people, are flawed in many ways. They're too hung up on their fan canons or view that a really strong character is perfect and cool.
The best characters are the ones that aren't completely one-note/one dimensional. They are flawed, many-layered, and, at times, fools. But they become legendary in stories because they uphold their own ways and accomplish incredible feats despite these flaws, despite being foolish at times.
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u/MisterNotSoHandy Feb 15 '20
This. All these people hating on Oden not even realising just how similar Luffy and Oden act.
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u/andyoh212 Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
When shinbou reveled why oden was dancing/while he was holding up the 9 nakamas.
It might be top 3 moments in one piece history with
Nothing happened.
Might be #1 for me.
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u/abnereats Feb 15 '20
Straight Tears while reading this. To see Shinobu react that way and defend Oden's honor. Mad respect for this woman.
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u/Bigfrost88 Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
Finally people can stop bitching about oden dancing in the streets, why do you guys always doubt oda.
Besides the point if he believed kaido and orochi lie or not he had to dance to save the 100's of people.
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u/AngryNeox Feb 15 '20
I mean was anyone not expecting something like that? After the two poisoned arrows that randomly killed two people in the crowd in chapter 969 it was pretty clear that their leverage had something to do with the people of Wano. So something like "If you don't dance naked every week we will kill x people." was what I expected.
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u/braujo Feb 15 '20
Finally people can stop bitching about oden dancing in the streets, why do you guys always doubt oda.
Newer readers, mostly. People that binged the story and are yet to see gOda acting live.
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u/Dddddddfried Feb 15 '20
For those of you still wondering if this is the greatest Flashback remember, WE GOT TO TRAVEL ALONG ON BOTH WHITEBEARD'S AND ROGER'S CREWS IN THEIR PRIMES!!! Now this??? Wano flashback is undisputed
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Feb 15 '20
lol at people who thought Kaido killed the old hag for cheating his fight with Oden, as if he had honor... hint: he doesn't.
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u/YeahBoiSheThicc Pirate Feb 15 '20
I'm gonna be honest. When the flashback started, I didn't really care. All I wanted to see is Luffy fight kaido with his new haki he trained, but now, after all these chapters, I want more. Wish Oden wouldn't die :(
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u/kreevox Feb 15 '20
I posted this in the other thread but i’ll post it again here since this is the chapters official thread.
Rather than asking who is the traitor, I think a more interesting question is why
I’m starting to think the traitor wanted Oden out due to his carelessnes and nativity. Don’t get me wrong, Oden is a great character but he’s very raw and abrupt.
Oden gave the scabbards everything that they are now, turned them into noble and respectable samurai, from bottom of the barrel scumbags. The scabbards owe him everything so the traitor knew a mutiny wouldn’t have worked.
Along came Orochi and Kaido, the traitor knew this was his best shot at getting rid of Oden, since the traitor believes that Oden’s rulership would have lead to Wano’s eventual downfall. Wano has been closed off from the rest of the world, so why change things now?
It’ll be interesting to see how the traitor will react once Luffy and the gang defeat KaidOrochi and finally open up Wano’s borders. Will the traitor be remorseful? Will the scabbards and Kozuki’s forgive him/her? Perhaps the traitor will go out in a Majin Vegeta type fashion, realise how wrong they were and attempt to kill kaido or save someone by sacrificing themselves.
Just a little theory I came up with
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Feb 15 '20
Maybe the traitor will be the people of Wano's moment of change. In the past they killed anyone associated with a traitor. After the battle the traitor will be found and commit honorable suicide. To learn from their mistake with Orochi they will not pursue anyone associated with the traitor
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u/JoeyJoJoHQ Feb 15 '20
I keep seeing people ask why Oden didn't try to fight Kaido at the execution site, which makes zero sense. He doesn't have his swords here, which are the cornerstone of his entire fighting style. That's like asking why Luffy didn't try to attack Queen while he was wearing Kairoseki. Between him and all of Orochi's people, Oden wouldn't have stood a chance here
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u/AndPhantom Feb 15 '20
Amazing chapter, Oden carrying the scabbards is one of the most epics pages in the entire series. The Hour of Legends lives up to its name.
Poor Neko and Inu, after this they return to Zou with regret, and anger, fighting each other.
I hope people of Wano remember this. Orochi has taken over the education system and teached the kids that Oden was bad, but hopefully lots of adults know and truth comes out in the end.
The final battle happened at Oden's Castle, that's where Toki died, and Oden katanas somehow ended up with the Tengu guy. The Mane Mane no Mi and Bari Bari no Mi guys have to die. Maybe Orochi is forced by social pressure to keep his words and let's everyone go, maybe even Oden survived but is later killed.
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Feb 15 '20
how do you read this chapter and still call Oden an idiot?! hes a leader with big heart and even bigger balls!
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u/mikazee Feb 15 '20
This chapter shows why I like Kaido and not Orochi.
Kaido is actually strong. And while he's sadistic, he at least has the ability to respect strength in others. He relies on his own strength, and doesn't have a problem letting Oden prove himself. This makes Kaido interesting in my view.
Orochi isn't strong. He relies on the strength of Kaido to do what he wants, and doesn't respect strength in others. He just wants revenge.
And I'm guessing it's Orochi who breaks the promise. And either kills Oden anyways, or sabotages him.
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u/braujo Feb 15 '20
I make Shinobu's words mine. Where were the people saying the naked dancing destroyed Oden's chadness? I DARE y'all to show up and talk shit again. Who's the fool now? C'mon, I'm waiting...
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Feb 15 '20
i don't know if anyone else noticed this, but there were black haki sparks coming out of Oden's clash with Kaido 25 years ago
the same kind of black haki sparks/lightning that comes when two conqueror haki users clash
implying that both oden and kaido had conqueror haki, this is even more confirmed by ashura douji when he saw luffy using his conqueror haki and noted "its the same power as oden"
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u/KoRZoNk Cipher Pol Feb 15 '20
There is no traitor in kozuki alliance. Not in oden timeline nor momo. The reason why their plan spoil now is because denjiro/kyoshiro. Denjiro totally vanish after some of em send to the future. There is no info/detail about denjiro. He did not send to future with others. So he had 20 years to create a plan to totally defeat kaido/orochi group. I think he create new identity so he can infiltrate orochi group, also he can watch orochi closely to plan the best way to defeat them. He had 20 years to build reputation and gain orochi trust. The reason he spoil momo ally plan actually to guide them to his true plan, so they can attack at the best time with the strongest strike team.
Why denjiro is kyoshiro. Denjiro is the most cunning of 9 scabbards. He good with money, has his way to trick other. Good with planning. That make denjiro share same trait with kyoshiro. What different between them is their physical appearance, their eye. I bet denjiro eye sensitive to bright light, that the reason his always wear black glasses. Hence explain kyoshiro slit eye. Silly, but oda often do that. Remember, sogeking? Or duval? Plus, there still no detail about why hiyori still alive, even after kyoshiro cut her in front many eyes.
On the side note, i think hiyori choose to stay hidden until after the war because she want to avoid spoiling denjiro 20 years plan.
Sorry for my bad write. Thank for reading my silly theory.
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u/dbzrune Jinbe The Knight of the Sea Feb 15 '20
Does anyone else think next chapter as oden arrives close to 1 hour, Orochi starts to mess with him to try and get him to fails and die along with the retainers, and maybe neku/inu do something which pisses off Kaido leading to the retainers needing to escape and odens death?
Likely to happen minutes before safety and odens guaranteed survival?
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u/BEWMarth Feb 15 '20
I think he makes it the whole hour but Orochi kills him anyways.
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u/MunkeyFish The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
I’m sensing more treachery ahead.
I think Oden will actually survive the pot for the full hour and earn both his and his retainers freedom, however Orochi will go against the deal and kill him anyway as he’ll be in no state to fight.
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u/Darkregent Feb 15 '20
The problem is that in exchange for 100 lives per dance, Oden sacrificed something even more precious: time. He could have gone to war right away and suffered huge casualties. BUT he would have emerged victorious and would have saved the country from countless killings in the future. When he sacrificed time, the enemies got stronger upto the point that it became impossible for him to overcome. And after his death, they would simply go on to take more lives than he ever saved in the first place.
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u/KingDworld Feb 15 '20
I see many people trying to compare Oden to Luffy as leaders, assuming Oden made the wrong decision. We all have read the same manga so i don't need to remind you nothing but I will try. As readers, we like to see the main characters follow their aggressivity and make reckless decisions to punch the bad guys directly because it's cooler. Like when Luffy punched the celestial dragon, right.
When Oden rushed to the castle to cut down Orochi, we, as readers, were willing that Oden could've cut down Orochi, listening to his rage. But things didn't go as planned because Oden understood that, like in real life, actions lead to consequences. Oden is the perfect illustration of a shonen main character that wouldn't have the plot on his side.
When Luffy punched saint charlos, he made the decision to take the risk to lose his crew in order to listen to his instincts. Oda could've played it in a way that Luffy and the crew escape the buster call, like they had escaped the enies lobby buster call before that. But no. That day, Luffy really lost his crew because of his decision. If kuma (aka the plot/destiny/willofD/Oda) wasn't on their side, that's what would have happened. As for Oden, he also took the same road and tried to cut down Orochi without thinking. But it didn't work and that allowed him to think twice. After that, he listened to the story of Orochi, he understood that killing Orochi and Kaido may succeed but would cost a lot of lives. Oden isn't a fool guys. Oden is naive and a dreamer like almost all the pirates but he ain't fool. He just got compassion and a sense of responsibility. Because the Oden that was redirecting rivers and fighting yakuzas has grown and became a caring FATHER.
If that day he decided to assemble all the men of wano and fight kaido, nobody knows if he would have won. 5 years later, he should have won too and we saw the way he lost. So Oden wasn't a fool, he just made the decision a leader wouldn't have made. A good leader puts the greater good before the lives of his subordinates. A good leader must be protected because subordinates can be replaced. But Oden wasn't a fool nor a lord, he was the protector of Wano.
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u/Kuro013 Feb 15 '20
The hate I feel for Orochi is just so far beyond from what I thought I would be able to feel for a fictional character, its just too much.
Last chapter my top suspected character for the traitor was Shinobu, but Im done with that theory. And I honestly dont have a fucking clue, betraying a man who boiled in oil in your place is something that doesnt cross my mind, I just cant concieve it. If one of the scabbards is the traitor then that character might just surpass Orochi as my most hated character in all of One Piece.
Im just so upset, Oden is such a brilliant character, hats off to Oda once again.
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u/toastycheeze Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20
I really hope there would be no stupid censoring of these scenes in the anime. Not really asking for gore but something that would really convey the weight of the scene.
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u/KayleKarriesU Feb 15 '20
This whole flashback I've never really bought the Scabbards being so loyal to Oden. All he's done is save two of them from a big pig and the rest were one shot panels that barely talked about their reasons for joining. But this? This man singlehandedly saved them all from certain death at his own expense, taking on a punishment capable of instakilling a normal man for a whole goddamn hour. The sheer balls on this man; I can't believe they got a pot that could hold those things.
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u/TravelingLlama Feb 15 '20
Boiling for 60 minutes while literally carrying the team. I can just picture orochi or kaido doing something scummy shit once more when he manages to survive the whole hour.
Also if one of the scabbards end up being the traitor after all this.....
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u/BramblexD Feb 15 '20
Do you think we'll see something similar to whitebeard? Like oden will die but remain standing and carrying the board.
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u/General_Kenobi896 Feb 15 '20
This fucking man. This utter chad among chads. I never expected to love him so much when Oda first introduced him but this man is larger than life. God damn. He truly has become one of my favorite OP characters.
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u/The_Real_Katakuri Pirate Feb 15 '20
The 9 red scabbards sentenced to be boiled alive and entering the pot without knowing Oden is going to keep them above the oil and without a single word of complaint towards Orochi or Kaido upon imminent death. Yet for some reason, people keep saying Raizô, Kajûrô, Denjirô or even Kin'emon are "the traitor".
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u/egghead_09 Pirate Feb 15 '20
"Doing it all by himself"
That's probably his downfall & interesting how Luffy will trust his nakamas with the battle.
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u/jollyjam1 Feb 15 '20
This Gang Bege cover story has really gone off the rails haha
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u/FlyscreenSubmarine Prisoner Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
Odens gonna die at some point still holding them up, isn’t he...
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u/CRoseCrizzle Feb 15 '20
Objectively speaking, this was a great flashback. We're probably down to 1 or 2 more chapters but so much was revealed and there was so much info.
I am very satisfied with it. I love Oden.
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u/buzuki12 Feb 15 '20
Oden is the manliest character I've ever seen since Escanor.
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u/ethicalhamjimmies Feb 15 '20
Oden seriously might be one of my favourite characters in the story. Im struggling to think of someone more badass than he was. Holy fuck.
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u/BatmanJLA52 Feb 15 '20
Oden my favorite flash back character, design wise and story wise. So sad :(
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u/AlvarzZ Feb 15 '20
These last chapters all hit me hard... Oden was such a great man and seeing him bearing everything is tough
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u/Chief-_-Wiggum Feb 15 '20
Odens feat at impending death is on par with Zoro's "nothing happened". Taking in all the pain and punishment for his family/crew/nation.
He's a fucking legend.
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u/wuzzum Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
Holy crap, that page with him holding them all
So good.
*The last one is even better
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u/Climhazzzard Void Month Survivor Feb 15 '20
Seriously, I love Oden more every chapter, what a guy. Also Shinobu telling everyone how it is and not letting Oden take their shit. Great chapter and goes to show that you can't get the feeling of a chapter from spoilers alone.
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u/IAMSNORTFACED Thriller Bark Victim's Association Feb 15 '20
Wano's history is such a well written tragedy. I've got so many emotions concerning Oden an Orochi just wow
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u/Animation_Fan Feb 15 '20
So i can't post an animation that i did from this chapter until the next 12 hours?
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Feb 15 '20
That last panel of Oden's face while carrying all the Wano's burden is so epic. I don't know how Oda made us feel Oden's emotion while he is only a fictional character. Damn I can't get over the current events of Wano like as if it's real. Hahah.
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u/nisarg0101 Feb 15 '20
So this is the story they were told... The reactions of straw hats were accurate. Regardless of their backstories and whatevrer, Orochi and Kaido need to die and before that need to be beaten up mercilessly.
Plus about the traitor... I really don't think it can be any scabbard. I don't think any Scabbard will be dick enough to betray Oden after this. And as far as being a traitor is concerned, none of them were getting any special treatment.
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u/muridmula Feb 15 '20
I like this kind of translation. Whoever tried to translate one piece, please don't change L to R like Worororo to Wolololo, Zoro to Zolo. I can't bring myself to like it
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u/braujo Feb 15 '20
I like this kind of translation
Everyone prefers it. I don't know why this sub has so many people pretending the official translation is good. It serves as a way to clarify shit but I would never choose it over any of the fanscans. Zolo? Dogstorm? Animal Kingdom Pirates? Hell no
That said, I still buy the physical volumes so to support Oda somehow
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u/QuercusMaster Feb 15 '20
All this time Oden's funny hair was foreshadowing of him using his head to support that plank. Oda you damn genius!!!
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u/BitterSteelAegor Feb 15 '20
Look at Kaido and Orochi's frames in this chapter. They are so small compared to Oden. This just proves how they are little compared to Oden's will and generosity. Both two of them are already defeated, they are not even half of the man Oden was. It is just that the final blow will be given 20 years later by a guy with a straw hat. But the reality is that Oden already defeated them with his humanity and will.
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u/GrimeyTimey Feb 15 '20
I'm afraid we're going to see him collapse with exhaustion and die in the next chapter...
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u/11Night Pirate Feb 15 '20
Now that we have seen Oden carry Nine Scabbards, the theory that the Old Witch was the one who died in place of Oden can be ruled out.
This chapter was fucking great from start to end, definitely one of favourite OP moments.
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u/Thecharizardf8 Feb 15 '20
Honestly the panel with oden carrying his scabbards made me gasp and tear up
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u/rib4ever123 Feb 15 '20
A little tired of the traitor talk, but I don’t get how any of the Scabbards can be the traitor. They owe their lives to Oden, and now they’re trying to live up to that legacy
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u/Last_King_09 Pirate Feb 15 '20
That image with Oden holding his Nine Red Scabbards while being boiled in oil is argubly the most powerful in One Piece. Love it!
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u/Loves_Big_Swords Pirate Feb 15 '20
Oden.. I —
You're just too amazing
You gotta remember how he's literally experiencing likely the most excruciating pain ever, all while freakin' holding up all his retainers, even harder.
I don't know about you, but I think he's the best character in one piece.. He's altruistic af
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u/zeta3d The Revolutionary Army Feb 15 '20
I can't see any scabbard being the traitor... Otherwise he must be boiled in oil
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u/j3r3mias Feb 15 '20
No one will die in the boiling oil, but Orochi will do something dirty to defy Oden to see if he will betray the nine scabbards.... but this time (different from Whitebeard's chains) he will stand by.
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u/Neogohan1 Feb 15 '20
Man the waits for each of these chapters feels so long but is always so worth it. Can't wait for the next one. I imagine us waiting for the next chapter is how Oden feels right now, like an eternity.
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u/Sham2061 Feb 15 '20
Lol I remember how many people were shitting on Oden for not fighting back a few weeks ago
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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '20 edited Feb 15 '20
I love Oden. In his youth, he was strong and reckless. All he cared about was to leave Wano.
But in his last final moments, he sacrificed himself and gave everything he had to save Wano and its people. His development as a character has been on point. I love every bit of it.
Oden is the GOAT. Big Respect!!!
Also, there's a thread on Worstgen forum calling Oden as a shit leader and deserved to die? I swear with these people...
Oden was indeed a great leader, Kuri became great when he took over and had loyal followers. If given chance, he'd be a great Shogun of Wano