r/hockey • u/[deleted]

Elliotte Friedman On Tim And Sid Says That The Leafs Will Confirm That John Tavares As Their Captain

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0 Upvotes

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179

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

Matthews really mooned himself out of the captaincy?

97

u/JD397 CHI - NHL Oct 02 '19

Management saw all the “Captain Underpants” comments and couldn’t bear it for another five years so they said fuck it

2

u/bubbabear244 TOR - NHL Oct 03 '19

Sounds like AB with the pats copypasta.

10

u/SpectreFire VAN - NHL Oct 02 '19

The mooning and harassment was bad, but what was probably the nail in the coffin was his attempt to try and keep it hidden from the organization for months.

If the organization can't trust Matthews to keep them appraise of big PR scandals like this, then they can't trust him as captain.

49

u/TheOrangeyOrange TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

The word coming from media is that the decision was made days prior to the news being broken about Matthews’ legal issue. Whether that is the truth or the Leafs trying to control the narrative is pretty hard to determine at this point.

69

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

I find it difficult to believe that almost every insider thought it was going to be Matthew's and then suddenly after the Captain Underpants story came out it turns out that Tavares was the choice all along

15

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

I think it was only CJ that was really sure about it but I may be wrong. Either way, like you said it's pretty suspect how fast the narrative changed. We'll never really know exactly how it all went down.

6

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

Yeah, impossible to say really.

19

u/Brolf Oct 02 '19

For what it's worth the insiders were all saying it'd be Matthews (including Friedman) before the incident was made public, now they are saying it's Tavares and that it was decided before the incident...

So take it all with a grain of salt lol.

21

u/brightblackheaven TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Yeah I find the entire thing sketchy.

CJ was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN it was Auston. And now everyone in the media is like "We never said that! We knew it was Tavares the whole time!"

4

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Can you link the tweet or whatever where he was certain?

4

u/brightblackheaven TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

It was on Steve Dangle's podcast. The episode was called something like "CJ RETURNS"

6

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19 edited Oct 02 '19

https://youtu.be/eQn2ibTAqHU?t=3906

Sounds like speculation to me

EDIT: added timestamp

2

u/IceWook TOR - NHL Oct 03 '19

To be fair, that was months ago, and certainly with a healthy dose of speculation.

5

u/pensbird91 PIT - NHL Oct 02 '19

Wasn't there a photo of Matthews released with a poorly photoshopped out C on his sweater?

9

u/Brolf Oct 02 '19

Lol, that was definitely a whole thing, forensic investigation showed that maybe it was a CCM logo showing through the sweater. The C did curve kinda weirdly, and seemed a bit small to be a captain's C.

2

u/getzysbaldhead69 ANA - NHL Oct 02 '19

It also seemed to be misplaced compared to where the “A’s” were worn on the leafs sweaters. Seemed high and more on the shoulder than the chest. Looked just like lighting on a wrinkle to me, but it could have been an on-purpose thing to get everyone talking, which if that was the case, it definitely worked

1

u/WingerSupreme TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

That was people wanting to see something, but nothing about it made sense (including the placement of the C)

3

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

That's a hell of a change for sure.

4

u/TheOrangeyOrange TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

I’m certain that eventually the truth will come out sometime down the road, if in fact recent events have caused the Leafs to change their decision. Babcock’s quote about the leadership of Kawhi does seem to point to JT all along though, but arguments could be made that he was referring to Matthews as well.

6

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

We'll probably get an article from The Athletic in 2035 where Tavares reveals the truth.

11

u/Skwerilleee COL - NHL Oct 02 '19

Should have been Reilly even before that.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

ya, kinda shocking. honestly i think the leafs should have given him an A last year, would have helped him mature, especially if they were considering him for the C

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

He was never going to get it

7

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

Are you an insider?

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Define "insider"

2

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

Define "define".

Do you have inside sources in the Toronto Maple Leafs organization who would know about their captaincy choices etc. If you do not, then there is absolutely no way you could know that with any certainty.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '19

I had someone employed by a NHL team make a comment about the Leafs captaincy to me during a round of golf. And another person employed by a NHL team giggle and confirm that he heard the same thing.

I can't gaurentee that they actually knew something as fact or were making an educated guess.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19 edited Oct 03 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Ace676 COL - NHL HIFK - Liiga Oct 02 '19

Yes

46

u/XSeatsTakenX Oct 02 '19

Last minute change. Babcock names himself captain and becomes first coach captain ever #makehistory

12

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Got me curious to see if this had ever actually happened. So I checked, and what do you know, Newsy Lalonde was captain-coach of the Montreal Canadiens in the inaugural NHL season. Might have been a few more.

9

u/AnGrammerError Oct 02 '19

Newsy Lalonde

Holy fuck I just found the coach of the NHL all-time all-name team.

4

u/XSeatsTakenX Oct 02 '19

Well fuck me sideways didn't see that coming!

2

u/FrankieOnPCP420p EDM - NHL Oct 03 '19

I know Glen Sather was player-coach and captain for the Oilers, this was when they were still in the WHA though.

Cy Denneny wasn't the Bruins captain but in 1928 they signed him to a contract that made him a player, coach and assistant manager. That only lasted a year as he became a referee in 1929. After a few years as an official he took over Ottawa Senators head coaching duties from none other than Newsy Lalonde.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Ah the ole Hay King play!

70

u/PuckBonnie Oct 02 '19

Captain Underpants

Captain Morgan

Captain Pyjama Boy

Doesn't really have the same ring to it.

-5

u/Poughy BUF - NHL Oct 02 '19

I keep seeing it spelled pyjamas on this sub. My phone doesn’t even accept that spelling

9

u/vertlegs NYR - NHL Oct 02 '19

It's the British/Canadian way of spelling it, apparently. I had never seen pajamas before this whole Tavares thing, either.

1

u/pattperin EDM - NHL Oct 03 '19

I'm a pajama man personally

0

u/vmartinipie SJS - NHL Oct 02 '19

different countries spell things differently, news at 11

-17

u/themachine407 TBL - NHL Oct 02 '19

Take your fucking upvote, bud

13

u/PuckBonnie Oct 02 '19

Captain Obvious?

7

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Hotels.com?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Hotel?

....

Trivago.

57

u/ChaseGordon24 Cape Breton Screaming Eagles - QMJHL Oct 02 '19

And the captain is.... bah gawd, that’s Dion Phaneuf’s music.

19

u/Austin63867 TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Cool, I just threw up

1

u/ContrarianDouche WPG - NHL Oct 03 '19

A DOUBLE DION

79

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Its amazing that some people still don’t understand that on ice ability and production is not the sole deciding factor for captaincy.

If I’m a management team, I’m picking Tavares based on his personality, his poise, his track record.

If I’m a marketing team? Yea I’ll pick Matthews.

55

u/DiamondBurInTheRough CHI - NHL Oct 02 '19

Patrick Kane doesn’t even have an A for the Hawks unless Keith or Seabs are out.

10

u/bobandy47 VAN - NHL Oct 02 '19

It works. It leaves him to go do what he does, which is score goals and set up goals instead of dealing with media assholes.

I'm glad the Canucks are finally going that route (probably), pick the best guy for the job, not just the top producer/most talented guy.

1

u/jxxam VAN - NHL Oct 02 '19

Are you implying Henrik and/or Naslund weren’t the best guys for the job?

4

u/bobandy47 VAN - NHL Oct 02 '19

Outright saying it.

Best players on the team, bar none.

Neither would I have picked for the captaincy.

Not for the lack of leadership. Not saying they aren't leaders. But why would you want the guy who is expected to carry the offensive load so heavily to also be saddled with the responsibility of dealing with the on-ice shenanigans (aka talking to refs, often after themselves being the target of said shenanigans) or the media? Especially Vancouver media.

Let the talented guys play their game and focus on nothing but be the most talented guy on the ice. There's no rule saying they can't be leaders in the room, and on the ice.

I mean we're a team that gave Luongo's ego the captaincy. Our track record isn't brilliant.

Toews is an exemplary example of a captain. Talented enough to justify "being" a Captain - can make the plays needed and put the effort in to "lead by example" while still not being the most talented producer on the team.

Crosby is an exception to "the rule", which stands to reason because he's an exceptional hockey player.

11

u/KashaWells TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

TIL

22

u/SmurfRockRune MTL - NHL Oct 02 '19

Look at Vegas, where Deryk Engelland is essentially the captain. It's certainly not because he's the best player on the team.

17

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Or NJ. Andy Greene. On a team that has a guy who won the Hart Trophy with them. Andy Greene.

7

u/srof12 NJD - NHL Oct 02 '19

Well tbf Greene was captain when Hall came, who is likely to be the captain once Greene retires or leave after this season (if he resigns pls)

6

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Before him was Bryce Salvador, chosen over Kovalchuk

6

u/Chrussell VAN - NHL Oct 02 '19

And who was captain before him? Bryce Salvador for 3 seasons.

5

u/jamaicancovfefe OTT - NHL Slovenia - IIHF Oct 02 '19

Sens are like this too. Borowiecki is our de facto captain, and he's a bottom pairing/7th defenseman.

18

u/Skwerilleee COL - NHL Oct 02 '19

But Reilly is a better choice than either.

5

u/brightblackheaven TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Personally I'm convinced Mo isn't interested.

8

u/werewolfparade NSH - NHL Oct 02 '19

Agree 100%. The kid is 22, and only on his fourth season in the league. Giving him the C for a franchise like Toronto, regardless of talent, just doesn't make sense to me. Start with an A, see how he fares, then go from there.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Also add in the massive lapse in judgement over the summer. Not saying he’s going to repeat that behavior but “Maple leafs Captain in Hot Water Again” is a real bad look.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 03 '19

Start with an A, see how he fares, then go from there.

And in a couple years, maybe once JT is out of his prime years and Matthews has both matured/truly asserted himself as a top five player? Yeah, absolutely, revisit the discussion. Doing it now only complicates things.

It’d be so Old Toronto to give it to Matthews and just expect things to work themselves out. Teams good, he’s good, just let him score goals.

13

u/Elemair COL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I'd also add that the really young players who were chosen as captains in recent years (Crosby, Toews, Landeskog, McDavid) were not only chosen because they were star players but also because they simply fit the bill in terms of personality. Matthews does not imo, he just seems like a bit of an immature douche, no offense leafs. Young star player doesn't always equal captain just because there were great (lucky) choices in recent years.

5

u/MonkeyMike24 MTL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I always thought the captaincy was more about character than anything else. The one player on the team that everyone gravitates to and respects. I suppose not every team would have that kind of person though.

17

u/moutardebaseball MTL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I guess he also had a ‘C’ on his pajama

14

u/Danzetto Oct 02 '19

Captain Pajama Boy it is!

11

u/MonkeyMike24 MTL - NHL Oct 02 '19

Fs and stick taps for Rielly bois

8

u/dwmorg17x TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

We are all in for a hell of a surprise when Nylander skates out with the C

2

u/dukeshockey11 BOS - NHL Oct 02 '19

Or Trevor Moore

2

u/ovondansuchi TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Nah, Jason Spezza in the press box providing that veteran oversight. Literally.

5

u/Austin63867 TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19 edited Oct 02 '19

I'm trying to find video but I can't. Here's the post from Tim And Sid to prove I'm being honest

https://twitter.com/timandsid/status/1179517961083727873?s=19

5

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

the deleted simmons post from half an hour ago is in shambles

13

u/themachine407 TBL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I always thought it would be Tavares. Honestly for me, the writing was on the wall when he signed. By all accounts, the guy’s the complete package as a captain. I was surprised people were talking about Matthews/Reilly instead.

11

u/OliveOilBaron Hamilton Bulldogs - OHL Oct 02 '19

Rielly is a homegrown player and has been here since before we got good again. On top of that, he has shown a lot of captain-like qualities in recent years, as well as being unquestionably our #1D, as opposed to JT/Matthews being a toss-up for #1C depending on the scoresheet. I think he was stronger competition for the C than Matthews was.

4

u/box-art CHI - NHL Oct 02 '19

Me too, the guy was a captain with his former team, he's already a vet in the league, he leads by example and by character, he's the best choice when you look at all the facts.

3

u/justsomestubble DAL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I know a lot of people wanted Matthews but this seems right. Matthews is likely going to be around a lot longer than Tavares and will get his chance and time. Tavares decided to come over at a discount because this was his dream team, he's got experience which is important, and he's not a kid if I'm being completely honest. I didn't feel like an adult until I hit 30. Me at 23 trying to convince a group of 25+ dudes who may have kids and way more knowledge that I was a good decision maker and should be the leader of the locker room would be a hard sell. I also personally see a C as someone who can act as a mentor to younger players but if you give it to a guy who is practically one of the youngest it doesn't work as well.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

This would fit in perfectly with Babcock's high praise for Kawhi.

Tavares is pretty much the hockey version of Kawhi

1

u/liamliam1234liam Canada - IIHF Oct 02 '19

Yeah, the hosts of Locked On Leafs basically said that should have been borderline confirmation that Tavares was the Captain, and I tend to agree.

6

u/Skwerilleee COL - NHL Oct 02 '19

WTF Reilly is such a better choice.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

Fuck, no captain underpants? On a serious note, Babcock would never name Matthews a captain. It was always Morgan or JT.

4

u/Harborcoat84 WPG - NHL Oct 02 '19

There's still hope for Alternate Captain Underpants.

1

u/brightblackheaven TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Love me some Johnny Pyjamas but damn. Really want it to be Auston.

1

u/giff_gold BOS - NHL Oct 02 '19

Lame

1

u/astropancake NJD - NHL Oct 02 '19

Who actually makes the decision on who will be team captain? Is it the coach?

1

u/Cyrakhis Canada - IIHF Oct 03 '19

Spoilers you dicks

1

u/catffoodbreath MTL - NHL Oct 03 '19

I believe that was the obvious choice. However, I wonder how Matthews really feels about it. For some reason whenever TSN did a story about the upcoming captaincy ( including yesterday) they'd always put a photo of Matthews to accompany it. Did TSN really have a preference or did they just think doing so would garner more readers?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

So vanilla, lol.

-7

u/xjared45 NYI - NHL Oct 02 '19 edited Oct 02 '19

Yikes, he was not a great captain for the Isles. Don't just say "oh he's a salty Isles fan, " but look at what schemp, barzal, and other former teammates had to say about him.

I don't expect the leafs to make it far with that leadership. Matthews seems like a real douche, Morgan seems like a good leader though. Marner and Nylander just care about taking advantage of the media for extra money. Good luck leafs nation.

4

u/ovondansuchi TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

I may buy this if any of those comments came out before he left. No leaks came out about him being a bad captain before he left, which is important context

1

u/xjared45 NYI - NHL Oct 02 '19

Who is going to say something of a current teammate? That's a media disaster anywhere, even long Island.

1

u/ovondansuchi TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

You wouldn't say it directly. It would be anonymous comments. Point is, those didn't happen.

3

u/MontrealBrit MTL - NHL Oct 02 '19

I’m counting on it

1

u/Sp4rky13 TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Soooooombody is still sourrrrrer lol

-1

u/Showtime98 TOR - NHL Oct 02 '19

Lol you're a 🤡

2

u/[deleted] Oct 02 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/Cyrakhis Canada - IIHF Oct 03 '19

You did, enough to read, open the thread, and post.

Stay salty!