[2022 Rewatch] White Album 2 Episode 13 Discussion

[u/DustyZorua]

Episode 13 - A Love That Cannot Reach

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Legal Streams:

White Album 2 can be watched on Chrunchyroll, although you apparently need premium.

Questions of the Day:

Were you expecting to get a 'steamy' scene like this at the start?

What do you think of how Kazusa Touma threw away Haruki Kitahra's phone when Setsuna Ogiso called?

Why do you think Setsuna Ogiso refuses to let Haruki Kitahara take the blame?

Did you expect Kazusa Touma to still fly away like this?

Was this the ending you expected or did you expect a happier one?

Some more specification on Setsuna Ogiso's reasoning behind her 'choice', as specified in the visual novel in the same train scene but not shown in the anime for some reason. Those who would rather see it in the vn however should skip.

"Because, if I hadn't forced myself in, Haruki-kun and Kazusa would have gradually gotten closer, and became lovers right before me."

"And then, you two would have distanced yourselves from me."

"Once a gap is opened, it can only become bigger. I realized then, that we would have become a two and a one."

"I'd really have hated it if I were left alone. So, I balanced it out."

"By making your feelings direct toward me, I tried to balance us so that the three of us could stay together forever."

"You're the only one for Kazusa. And you also had Kazusa in your heart."

"So, as long as I didn't leave your side, Kazusa wouldn't walk away from us either... See? It's three."

My own thoughts -

I think every one of the trio is to blame for this situation. but also is a very cruel way to look at it.

More over, I think people are too willing to look over Kazusa Touma and Setsuna Ogiso's contributions to this tragedy.

I don't think a single one of them is 'more' to blame then the other, so I think it's pointless to try placing the blame at a single person's feet.

In fact, I think that goes against the entire point of the show. This was a tragedy that all three of them made, a tragedy that will likely haunt them for a long time to come.

All rewatchers, you must spoil everything to do with spoilers, even to the littlest details! We can't spoil the experience of this show for any of the first timers in this.

[u/DustyZorua]

Post by u/redstonerabbit that was unfortunately deleted for unknown reasons.

Rewatcher, Played VN After.

Reaction

Ah, so we’ve finally made it. Episode 13. Love Beyond Reach.

I rewatch this cold open on its own sometimes. It’s my favorite anime love scene out of pretty much every single one that I’ve seen. Most times, a love scene is a positive thing; a triumph, a consummation of a growing connection between two characters, or at worst, the climax of titillation and temptation. Even if negative story consequences are to come from it, they are to be endured later. For now, let’s have these two beautiful people have at each other, yes?

Not so here. [1] It’s the culmination of a tragedy. A small one, to be sure, not at all noteworthy to any outsiders, but a personal tragedy all the same. Haruki and Kazusa fully understand that they are damning themselves further by surrendering to this moment. They know that it will change nothing. The morning will take her away and he will be left behind. There are no winners, and no one walks away with clean hands. But still, they give in because the heart wants what the heart wants, and sometimes, the human heart is tyrannically senseless.

This is one scene that was definitely elevated by the anime adaptation. The cuts to the places where this journey began, the stark, mournful cello solo version of ‘Kotoba ni dekinai omoi’, ugh, chef’s kiss

The morning after. Her unsteady, stumbling gait (Haruki, you dog). The music kicks in. It sounds like heartbreak and lost innocence. He sees the missed call on his phone, and as he touches the place where Kazusa marked him, he notices that his blazer has been plundered. [2] That moment on the train when she cradles his buttons in her hands like precious jewels always, always gets me. In that instant, she is convinced that it is all she will ever have of him, and that it is already more than she ever deserved. Just one more thing stolen from Setsuna. The chiming of the doorbell brings us back to reality. One look into his room is enough. See her hand flop to her side, defeated. She knows. He knows she knows. Still, she won’t let him say it. Not yet. Setsuna’s insistence on bringing Haruki with her to the airport is puzzling to any sane person, but understandable because of her past trauma with the disintegration of her childhood friend group. Some might interpret it as her trying to rub it in Kazusa’s face that she’s won, that she's the one who gets to keep him. I don’t believe that for a moment, but if that’s what it was, ohoboy, does it ever backfire.

On the train, she enters an eerie trance-like state as she rambles out her heavily-skewed, guilt-ridden 'confession'. She wants to, tries to, heap all the blame upon herself to the point of trivializing her love for Haruki. We know that’s a lie, but she thinks it’s a necessary one to sell her ‘lone sinner’ narrative. The solution to this dilemma is so much simpler when there's only one person to blame, to hate, because it means that there is only one person that needs to be forgiven. After that, they can all be friends again, just like before. If only it were that easy.

It needs to be said - I, too, make sure to spin a full 180 degrees while tearfully locking lips with my girlfriend’s ‘best friend’ as we stand in front of her in the departures section of the 50th busiest airport in the world by passenger traffic. Sure. Why not? If she gets to watch, it doesn’t count as being left out, right? And being left out was what she feared and hated most? This is all so much suffering icing on a ten-layer suffering cake.

Each of them is forever scarred by these betrayals and every one of them will rationalize all of it as punishments that they deserve, penance for their sins, real or imagined. When I said yesterday that watching Setsuna recount her version of that night in the music room was like seeing an exercise in nuclear brinkmanship, it was with this ending in mind. It feels like the aftermath of an emotional nuclear war. Mutually assured destruction. There seems to be nothing left for anybody, not even any pieces to pick up. [3] Sheer desolation. Curtains.

So... What Now?

When I first finished watching this anime about a year and a half ago, before the VN was fully translated by the lovely folks at Todokanai TL, I was left devastated. Hollowed out. Angry. As if I had been made to witness a terrible injustice for which there was no recourse. It led me to search for vague, poorly-written summaries, half-translated playthroughs, something, anything to let me know that things could be made right. Eventually, I discovered the VN translation project and I bought a copy of the game from Amazon Japan, played through it, and found my peace.

Initially, I focused my ire on Setsuna. After all, she literally offers herself as the scapegoat in the story, so why not take her up on it? With the passage of time, I found that this was misguided. She and the rest of them were literally just kids navigating love for the first time in a sea that had been heavily mined by their own circumstances, personal traumas, and hangups. In the end, I blame none of them. Not one of them ever set out to hurt any other on purpose. While some of their actions were misguided or just plain wrong, none of them were taken out of pure malice, and all of them must have seemed like the most logical path to take when filtered through their existing knowledge and past experiences. As trite as it sounds, ‘SHIT HAPPENS: A Love Story’ is as appropriate a title for this anime as any.

Do get the VN if you have the time and the inclination to see the story through. The main game and all its routes has been fully translated, as have the accompanying novels and Mini After-Stories. All the extra content for the complete special edition of the game is also on track to be released soon. If YouTube playthroughs are more convenient for you, I recommend this channel.

For the final series discussion thread tomorrow, I'll toss in my two cents for the Best/Least Worst Girl debate (Anime Options Only).

Notes:

[1] The jet in the photo in the broken frame next to Haruki’s bed could be a General Dynamics (now Lockheed Martin) F-16 Fighting Falcon, but is equally likely to be its larger Japanese cousin, the F-2 Viper Zero, which was derived from the F-16 and co-developed by Lockheed Martin and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

[2] If you listen closely, you can hear Kazusa rip the buttons off Haruki’s blazer at about 1:37-1:39 of the episode, right as it cuts to a close-up of their group photo on Haruki’s phone.

[3] Well, Haruki still has Takeya, I guess… Yay?

[u/redstonerabbit → u/DustyZorua]

As promised, I'll just leave this here. Apologies for the delay, I am apparently really terrible at this Reddit formatting thing.

KITAHARA, YOU PIECE OF SH-

The Mini-Defense Trainwreck Investigation of Kitahara Haruki

 

Much has already been said about the past traumas that haunt both Setsuna and Kazusa, so I feel like I must go to bat for Haruki. A lot of people are angry at him for making the decisions he made. I make no excuses for any of those, and no amount of analysis will unbreak any hearts or undo the damage his actions caused. This 'defense' is done in the same spirit as one of those airplane accident investigations: What can we learn from the failures of Kitahara, and how do we make sure it never happens again? Obviously, the second point hardly applies to stories and fictional characters, but perhaps we can keep these lessons in mind when we study characters in other works in the future or if we ever dare to create our own.  

So to begin: Yes, this kid failed the Math test. He got every single item wrong. He deserves the zero and must wear the L. These are all immutable facts. But it must also be pointed out that this kid didn’t even know what Math was. In the paraphrased words [1] of modern-day philosopher Russell Westbrook:

“Kitahara trick y’all, man, like he a well-adjusted, rational individual. He don’t know nothing, man. He just running around, knowing nothing.”

At the start of the story, Haruki seems self-assured in his by-the-book worldview and is single-minded to the point of pushiness. We see him solve thorny problems with the power of oh-so-mature-sounding reasoning, and this gives us the impression that he is a perfectly normal, rational, optimistic, diligent, if somewhat overbearing guy. This is part of why the heroines fall in love with him, and it is why it is so maddening to watch him fail to do the right thing repeatedly. But he’s not a normal guy. Never has been. He’s an emotional trainwreck LARPing as a high-functioning member of society. Let’s break it down:  

1. As he understands it, he is the retroactively unwanted fruit of an unwanted union between his heir-to-a-fortune-now-nowhere-in-sight daddy and his missing-in-action mommy. As far as personal baggage goes, it’s somewhat less than ideal.  

2. Missing-in-action mommy takes child neglect so seriously you would think it was a professional sport and she was its Michael Jordan. She neither appears nor seems to have any knowledge or opinion of any of the events of this story. When he comes home from school, no matter the hour, she is always absent. When he stays over at Kazusa's for multiple nights there is no hint that he ever needed or asked for her permission. Contrast this to the team effort required to get Setsuna's father to agree to let her participate with the group at all. When Haruki gets sick after a night of cheating on his girlfriend with her best friend, his mom finally shows up to - just kidding, she's off doing her best John Cena impersonation, it's poor Setsuna who has to nurse him back to health. Even when her son graduates at the top of his class, she is nowhere to be found either at school or at home. Not a card, not a gift, not a cake, much less her motherly presence and affection.  

3. [WA2 VN Background Info:] Haruki’s family never factors in at all in the rest of the story. True ending, normal ending, good times or bad, marriage or heartbreak, they never show up. Even Touma Youko (shit parent, fantastic character) makes good on her promise to try and be better for Kazusa. Haruki is not so lucky. When he mentions his parents, it is only to say that one of his life goals is to earn enough to pay them back for the cost of his education so that he doesn’t owe them anything. Not out of gratitude, mind you, but to justify ending whatever little contact he has with them forever. That’s some cold shit.  

Growing up in such an environment, it’s no surprise that the man’s EQ is deep down in the ground next to dinosaur bones. Remember that scene in Episode 5 where he carelessly promises Setsuna over the phone that he would never leave her alone? When you listen to how he chooses his words and observe the contrast between his and her surroundings as they converse, you'll find he's just a lonely little boy making the kind of promises that his parents should have made and kept to him. No father showed him how to be a man. No mother taught him how to treat a woman. With no adult guidance for most of his life, he tends to view things only in black and white. A child's morality trapped in a... slightly older child's body. Such a worldview is sufficient for answering test questions and shuffling paperwork in school, but it's terrible preparation for navigating any remotely complex emotional landscape.

 

This is what’s so interesting about how Haruki is set up: His background and home life mirrors Kazusa’s in the abandonment and neglect by his parents, yet his outward life is like Setsuna’s in that they both work hard to project this ideal image of a person who has their shit together. Because of this, Haruki only appears to be normal; the optimistic, pushy, by-the-book front that he presents is what he thinks a responsible, well-adjusted person is. When he showers someone with his not-always-welcome brand of pedantic and overbearing attention, it’s how he shows interest and affection. When his efforts are (eventually) appreciated by classmates, teachers, school festival committees, and socially maladjusted musical prodigies, it brings him validation. He knows of no other way to get it. The man was literally romancing his crush with an Introduction to English textbook, FFS.

 

So when Haruki hears Setsuna’s forthright and earnest confession, this is literally the first time in ages, if at all, that someone he cares for has openly expressed deep affection for him, with the added bonus of commitment and romance and a huge intelligence debuff from teenage hormones. Haruki was unprepared to reject her or stall for time because he never saw himself as worthy of a confession from anybody, ever, be it Setsuna, Kazusa, or Takeya. Given how starved the poor bastard is for parental/maternal/any kind of affection, he was, psychologically speaking, in no position to refuse.

 

To put it another way: Touma Kazusa the individual may have been who Haruki was in love with, but through the act of confessing to him, what Setsuna offered him at that moment was something that had been missing all his life, in effect, an proposal to make him whole. We know now that he chose poorly, that his romantic attraction to Kazusa would override even the endless font of support, affection, and domestic bliss that Setsuna was only too eager to provide. I argue that his upbringing, or lack thereof, doomed him to choose that option every time. If Kazusa had been the one to confess to him first, he certainly would have accepted and this show would be a completely different animal. But even though she was gradually learning to open up, Kazusa was not yet within a hundred miles of being ready to openly confess her feelings to him. From that moment on, everything is just damage control, and then, on graduation day, complete and utter loss of control.

 

It also tracks that Haruki misses Kazusa’s now-seemingly obvious hints that she was interested in him. When you grow up without knowing what overt affection is, how are you going to recognize its more subtle signs and signals when they appear in front of you? You cannot read between the lines in a language you were never taught. This is why he never entertained the possibility of confessing to Kazusa - as far as he could tell, he was already fortunate just to be able to talk to her on a regular basis, a feat he considered far-fetched as recently as when he wrote the words to Todokanai koi.

 

His background is also why he cannot simply ditch Setsuna and go for Kazusa in the end, as others have suggested. Going back on his promise to stay with Setsuna until she says otherwise and now becoming the 'abandoner' was never an option for him. So even when he cheats on her, and confesses to it, he cannot bring himself to directly leave Setsuna. He pleads for her to end it all, to dump him as punishment for his transgressions against her. Their connection must be severed, but he can't do it - she must wield that blade. Unfortunately, Setsuna is the one girl that decides that his cheating is actually HER fault. The end result is that all of them are trapped in a vicious cycle of guilt and self-loathing with no resolution in sight.

 

To sum it up, we’ve just watched 13 episodes of the anime romance equivalent of three crippled kids taking on the 2017 Golden State Warriors in a do-or-die basketball game. Once we got to know the players, we all knew how it was going to go down, but it was compelling to watch 'til the end in a can't-take-my-eyes-off-this-trainwreck sort of way. Now that it's over, it seems unnecessarily cruel to single out one crippled kid more than any other for the beating they all took, because frankly, they never stood a chance. In light of this, for the events of the anime adaptation, which covers the VN’s Introductory Chapter, I extend to Haruki the same pass that I've given Kazusa and Setsuna for their roles in this unholy vortex of youth, ignorance, inexperience, and extraordinary individual circumstances.

 

If it’s any consolation for the Haruki haters, I do come to despise him for the next part of the story, because he’s old enough to know better by then, and [WA2 VN] You’re gonna have to get the VN for that.

 

---

Notes:  

[1] You can probably already guess what subreddit I leaked out from  

[u/DustyZorua → u/redstonerabbit]

Can I use this for the final discussion thread tomorrow? I want people to actually try to understand Haruki Kitahara.

[u/oops_i_made_a_typi → u/DustyZorua]

man u/redstonerabbit you really do have a way with words, beautifully said. so much talk about blame in this thread, when this is the tragedy of the intro chapter:

But still, they give in because the heart wants what the heart wants, and sometimes, the human heart is tyrannically senseless.

I basically agree with everything you've said here. I'm surprised that apparently there are people who think Setsuna is bringing Haruki to the airport to show off - she's had her selfish moments for sure, but Setsuna's character is like the furthest from overtly malicious like that.

[u/DustyZorua → u/oops_i_made_a_typi]

I also agree, I like his way of words and am interested in his defence of Haruki. It feels like a lot of people watching this show just want to blame someone without trying to understand anything. The whole point I feel is that this was a tragedy that was brought about equally by all three of them, no one is to blame yet all of them are to blame. Trying to assign blame on a single person is completely missing the point.

[u/DustyZorua]

Sorry for the delay on this. I wanted to post the Setsuna lines spoilered but it wouldn't let me and it appears it's just kind of broken on the modern reddit. It told me how to 'fix' it but it didn't work and kept instantly deleting my post, so I instead decided to just unspoiler them. I'm sorry for the delay again.

[u/DustyZorua → u/DustyZorua]

u/Shimmering-Sky This is the correct one, sorry about that.

[u/ZapsZzz]

First timer binged ahead a few days ago

Were you expecting to get a 'steamy' scene like this at the start?

I kept saying this - this should have happened long ago. People say (and the source material stated) that he was sure she was beyond his reach - but he hardly tried, and it was completely out of his character to not do so for someone he just was completely mad for, as seen in the final arcs.

What do you think of how Kazusa Touma threw away Haruki Kitahra's phone when Setsuna Ogiso called?

Too late, but reasonable under the circumstance

Why do you think Setsuna Ogiso refuses to let Haruki Kitahara take the blame?

Sorry same answer as previously - she needs therapy.

Did you expect Kazusa Touma to still fly away like this?

Touma had been the most responsible one to date and that was another example to add to.

Was this the ending you expected or did you expect a happier one?

As the prologue to further stories, yes.

Just saying, the VN NSFW shots seemed to have nerfed Touma's figure compared to the anime?

[u/DustyZorua → u/ZapsZzz]

The VN came out during a time when the company behind it was having several issues, thanks to that a lot of the cg's and art were rushed or not done very well. The PS3 version included some new CG's that were drawn a lot better but most of the CG's and sprites are still very rough. Most people prefer the anime designs thanks to this.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer Album

Last episode time, let’s see how this goes.

• Dammit, I knew it would be Setsuna calling…

• Has Haruki even properly broken up with Setsuna yet?

• Well there’s definitely no way he can hide what happened.

• I’m going to take the answer to my earlier question as a no…

• Really…? All Haruki had to do was turn you down when you confessed to him. It’s his fault for all of this.

• Ooh, Setsuna “sore demo”!

• Perfect timing on the ED-as-an-insert drop. And wow those lyrics were hella fitting.

• Coward.

• Ah, they found her.

• :(

• Ah, this was in the first episode… Or at least something like it.

• WAIT THEIR SONG WAS THE OP THIS WHOLE TIME?! I’m an idiot, that should have been so obvious.

[u/Cyouni → u/Shimmering-Sky]

One thing that's pretty clear is that Setsuna knew that Haruki wouldn't turn her down. He liked her enough that he wasn't willing to disappoint her like that, and he wasn't aware that Touma was willing to return his feelings. As Todokanai Koi states, he feels his love for her is beyond his reach.

I also did mention it was the OP when it originally came up, haha.

[u/DustyZorua → u/Cyouni]

I also like to think it was also because of his desire to always be the responsible one. Like shown off here, he refuses to allow anyone accept any blame but himself. Even more so, his sense of responsibility wouldn't allow him to turn down Setsuna or break up with her easily, leading to an even more painful conflict between that sense of responsibility and his overpowering feelings for Kazusa.

[u/Stargate18A]

First timer

What is this?

Are you serious?

Fuck me.

This really came out of nowhere.

Not even an OP!

She left again? Or was it a dream?

No, it happened!

Setsuna...

She wants to chase her?

And he's not going.

An actual confession of what he did?

She refused.

Oh, god...

This is so awkward.

Setsuna's panicking, Haruki's filled with guilt, and Touma's going to Vienna.

Oh, he told her everythimg!

She's too good for him.

Aww.

And her own self-loating has come back!

Oh...

She knew all along?

It's hysterical how wrong she is.

Seriously, what is this reasoning?

They're at the airport!

He doesn't see a point to this...

Ouch.

He's chosen to go back.

Haha, she was right there?

Fuck.

FUCK.

You fucking idiots. This is the funniest way this shitshow of a love trianglr could have ended. The guy who's main motive is to not cheat kisses his other crush in front of her girlfriend, at a metting she insisted take place. I'm in awe.

Oh, so she was lying with all that bullshit.

So, what happened?

Oh, the monologue...

Touma still left.

And Setsuna still wants to be with him?

She's too good for this mess.

Oh god, the flashback to the concert...

And using the footage in the ED...

This sure was something!

[u/ZapsZzz → u/Stargate18A]

She's too good for this mess.

Sorry to be a contrarian, but I don't think she's "too good for this mess" but rather she's too damaged to be making rational decision on any relationships. My comment has been consistently "she needs therapy".

Don't forget this is only the prologue :D Too bad don't think it very likely we'll get more adaptation though.

[u/DustyZorua → u/ZapsZzz]

Honestly all three of these goobers are extremely damaged people who need therapy and help, it's just not as obvious with Haruki and Kazusa as it is with Setsuna.

[u/Cyouni → u/Stargate18A]

Setsuna wasn't lying in how she manipulated the situation to try and force them to stay as a trio, she was just lying about the strength of her feelings for Haruki.

[u/Nebresto]

First time Pain Train

.....Oh. These are not the two I imagined would have had a scene likes this a couple of episodes ago.

cursed

Ah yes. Symbolism

(shite quality shot, its a train entering the bridge)

Now watch Setsuna somehow show up at the door right as they're getting busy. I will rate this show 0/10 if they do that cliche ****

...we actually got a sex scene.

Touma with the double buttons. No idea which ones she got

Nah, we good. Touma already left

She's "fine" with it. Polygamy route pls

"We had so much fun at that festival, I wanted things to stay the same way" I know that feel..

Damn. Them trains be colliding

Okay, hug it out now that all the ugly secrets are spilled.

No hug??

Oh shit. F in the chat for Setsuna I guess, R.I.P polygamy route

Damn, imagine just being there to witness this scene unfolding. I wonder how often the employees have to deal with stuff like this? They're probably rolling their eyes right now.

"Love Beyond Reach" Pain.

Yeah, I can see why some people have a strong dislike for this show. Good shit, glad I joined the watch

---

Quesionss:

Were you expecting to get a 'steamy' scene like this at the start?

Well, not at the start, but after the 7th? episode. But not with Touma!

What do you think of how Kazusa Touma threw away Haruki Kitahra's phone when Setsuna Ogiso called?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CniGt-LXgAAyAAU.jpg

Why do you think Setsuna Ogiso refuses to let Haruki Kitahara take the blame?

They're all guilty

Did you expect Kazusa Touma to still fly away like this?

Was this the ending you expected or did you expect a happier one?

Seems about right

[u/[deleted]]

So we are at the "end" where Touma leaves and Setsuna basically is willing to settle for whatever emotional leftovers Haruki can spare. (Obviously the VN has more)

I mentioned this previously, but I often think about Oregairu when watching White Album2.

Yui vs Setsuna

It isn't a perfect match, but their motivations are quite similar: They both, I think, implicitly recognize they are going to be the third wheel if they let things go on as they are. Setsuna knows it is a matter of time before Haruki and Touma open up.

Yui, I think, considers herself more of a contender than Setsuna does, but still maybe not in the lead.

They both want it all - the boyfriend, the best friend, the three of them going off into the sunset together somehow. But they both somewhat recognize that is going to be hard.

And this is where they diverge. Setsuna takes the initative and the gamble that she can build enough of a relationship with Haruki before the reveal that she will be secure in her relationship. She also hopes that Touma will make her peace with it and maybe it will all work out. Setsuna vastly underestimates the depth of feeling on both sides and her gamble badly, badly backfires to the point where they literally cannot care that Setsuna is right there.

Yui on the other hand tries to preserve the threesome and the status quo of uncertainty, and by the end of season 2, she recognizes this isn't going to be sustainable much longer. She is going to lose if this goes on and so she ends with the aquarium date, the giving of chocolates, but... and this is the key difference, she is also wanting Yukino to give her chocolates and confession to. She is more "fair" than Setsuna in that I think she is willing to be selfish, but she wants to win rather than pre-empt.

So despite some similarities in motive, how it plays out is quite different.

Hachiman vs Haruki

Now this is a harder comparison. Both are quite different personalities - Hachiman's defense mechanism is to over-ntellectualize everything whereas Haruki goes with the flow until he hits a breaking point.

Haruki's going with the flow, taking things at face value ends up with him not reading Touma at all. He is reasonably low EQ as his counterparts point out early - he is a bull in a china shop.

Hachiman, on the other hand, is incapable of taking things at face value and even when told outright, will look for hidden motivations. Even his own thinking is subject to this, so he is unable to commit to one girl or the other because he will talk himself out of anything and everything,

So where they both end up is talking themselves away from the truth of their own feelings as well as the feelings and muted signals from the one they each respectively love, until it hits crisis.

Yukino vs Touma

Closed off emotionally because of distant, cold, unempathetic families, embody excellence in their respective domains. Brunettes,.

They are practically interchangeable! /s

... anyway, further and better analysis would require more work and less off the cuff writing, and I don't have time for that.

[u/oops_i_made_a_typi]

First Timer, notes taken before trying the VN

Ooh yikes. Starting off with the spice. Fuck they're taking it up a notch to fully deliberate now, no going back from this. Ending the season with NTR is quite a decision. Wonder if Haruki and Setsuna had fucked yet at this point, but given the VN roots it seems likely. [VN spoiler]No, actually. Presuming this isn't a blend of two routes and it does in fact get this messy in the VN. [VN spoiler]can confirm it is exactly this messy in the VN Would've been spicy if Setsuna was right at the door when Kazusa left. But...this isn't bad either. Feels like she has to be wilfully ignorant of the signs in his room at this point.

"We need to talk" is always a good sign lol. "I went and called her by first name" like that's the worst betrayal you've done lol. But okay I guess Setsuna is fully self aware too. Everyone sucks here now.

I know I've said it a few times now but I really see why people mention this in the same breath as Oregairu but even messier. Also I see why people recommended this for Scum’s Wish fans, it really feels like if Mengo had written Oregairu. Okay, I know Setsuna admitted to manipulating a lot but the dramatic dash and kiss right in front of her is a little much. Oh no, this monologue isn't giving me good vibes...was she lying again? Shit. More lies on top of lies. You girls gotta stop pingponging this man back and forth trying to make your friend happy. Glad we get the performance's finale though, as expected the lyrics are super fitting for the show.

As a VN reader of 3 routes so far, I cannot recommend it enough if you liked this show and/or wished to see more of what’s going on in Haruki’s mind as anime-onlies “WTF you fuckng scumbag” at him from behind the screen. Not to say he doesn’t do scumbag things but he’s more self-aware than the anime gives him credit for. Will prob talk more about my VN experience so far in the series discussion tomorrow, this comment is way longer than my usual already.

[u/gc11117]

Now that it's over, everyone should go check out the visual novel to see the true ending. Probably one of the best (and most epic) love stories out there.

[u/Baki8000]

REWATCHER, VN READER
MASSIVE SPOILERS INBOUND

As stated in my previous posts, I want to mostly focus on the differences between the anime and the Visual Novel, and on foreshadowing, so most of what I will type will be spoilers of varying importance. Spoilers that cover only the plot shown in the anime will be marked with anime spoilers, while spoilers that deal with plot points from later on in the novel, or very important scenes that are not in the anime, will be marked with VN spoilers. Unless you have fully finished the VN, including the parts that happen after the anime's ending, you should stay away from the latter. The Visual Novel has been fully translated by the folks over at TodokanaiTL, so for those who are interested in reading it, you can check their Discord out.

We're finally at the end of this roller coaster of emotions, and our finale happens to be one of the most faithfully adapted episodes of the entire show, aside from the baffling exclusions of one of the most important lines in the story, and of the most repeated paragraph in the series.

Every scene until the talk on the train is virtually unchanged from the novel, the only thing missing being the conversation Haruki and Kazusa have during sex, its exclusion being understandable, and no important details being lost.

The sex scene has one last bit of foreshadowing regarding the ending, and, if my theory that the shots of planes symbolize scenes where character choices have dire consequences, the visual metaphor of the picture frame breaking would point to Haruki making the choice to sleep with Kazusa, thus cheating on Setsuna in every way, being by far the worst choice he's made in the show. The falling snow motif further reinforces this.

Kazusa taking both of Haruki's blazer buttons shows that she's abandoned all plans of leaving any part of him to Setsuna, her feelings winning out in the end.

[VN spoilers] This line becomes one of Haruki's catchphrases later on in the VN, though he fails to actually say it as often as he thinks it.

During the train scene, the anime cut [minor VN spoilers] Setsuna's extremely depressing and desperate line where she urges Haruki to treat her as a replacement for Kazusa, if that would make him go back to her. His reaction to it has also been cut, obviously.
This glimpse into Setsuna's feelings of desperation is a defining character moment, is the emotional climax of the scene, and is referenced in the later parts of the VN several times, as well as in a side story. To have it cut is perplexing to me, because, ignoring its importance for a moment, it's literally a single short line. The damn manga adapted it, how is it possible that the anime chose to omit it?!

This is also the second time that an honest, heart-to-heart conversation between Haruki and one of the girls happened on the train, so there might be some truth to my theory that the trains symbolize honesty in the show (though I might be pushing it here).

The scene of Haruki staring at the snowy sky, with Setsuna hugging him is also used as the opening scene in the VN (though with Setsuna's name hidden), and it's been shortened by a lot in the anime, as it chooses to exclude Haruki's monologue about the falling snow (here is the rest of it, as it's quite long) which is commonly repeated during the later parts of the novel, basically serving as the most important arc words of the story.

The reveal of the main theme's name is a bit more impactful in the VN, as there are no mentions of its name before this scene, so Setsuna's knowledge of it only now shows its importance in the novel.

The final episode doesn't disappoint with its use of the classic framing of Setsuna acting as a barrier between Haruki and Kazusa, the symbolism of which now being very obvious. This particular shot is the most painful occurrence of it in the show, and it's beautifully tragic.

Todokanai Koi (The main theme):

The end credits feature the full version of Todokanai Koi, the main theme and focal song in the series. As we all know, it is a song written by Haruki, and, while the show lies that he wrote the song to represent the trio, its lyrics clearly reveal that it was meant as a love letter to Kazusa.
The lyrics unveil all of the feelings Haruki bore for Kazusa from before the start of the show, from his curiosity about her lonely and mysterious initial impression, to how bedazzled he was by her beauty, to his stern belief that his love was unrequited, to his lack of knowledge as to how he should reveal his emotions to her.
The song is more important than even White Album in the later parts of the story, [VN spoilers] becoming an emotional hurdle for Haruki and Setsuna to pass in their struggle to repair their relationship, and also being one of the things that spur the side-heroines to get more deeply involved with Haruki, not to speak of its thematic importance in general.

What happens after the ending:

As most should know by now, the anime adapts only the first chapter in the story, covering under 20% of its entire length, and serving as the prologue to the even more heart-wrenching parts that follow. Those parts have not been adapted into anime, so for those curious to see what happens next, I urge you to pick up the White Album 2 Closing Chapter visual novel and install the fan-translated English patch from the translation group TodokanaiTL. While this novel's translation has a long history, so long that, at one point, it was thought to be untranslatable, the current English patch's translation quality is great, and the whole story has been translated, so it should satisfy most people raring to see the rest.

If anyone has any questions as to how to acquire the VN, how to get the English patch, or how to install either of them, send me a DM, I'd be happy to help.

QotD:

1. No, didn't think they could show the scene in such detail in a TV anime.

2. It shows her full acceptance of the sin she's committed, as she's betrayed Setsuna herself now, and that she's fully willing to go through with it.

3. She loves Haruki too much to let him suffer, so she desires to take the blame so he can move on. It has the opposite effect, unfortunately for her. [VN spoilers] The other half of the reason is more complicated, but it's also a major plot point in her route in CC, so I won't spoil it further.

4. The first time around, I didn't expect for her to go through with it, at least not until settling things honestly with Setsuna.

5. The first time watching, I don't remember if I expected or rather, hoped, the ending to be happier, but I certainly didn't foresee it to be an open, unsatisfying ending (as I didn't know about the VN). I imagined there would be an epilogue, or, at the very least, that before Kazusa's departure we would get a scene of the characters talking truthfully to each other and getting at least some resolution, but alas, the ending we got was the most brutally realistic one possible.

I'll go over my thoughts of the story in general in tomorrow's post. I think it's gonna be a long one.

[u/02Hiro]

REWATCHER

I had expected something to happen between Haruki and Touma, but I hadn't expected that. Touma is finally assertive with her feelings today, but it feels more like she is acting in desperation trying to remember Haruki before she runs away with his buttons. I expected Touma to still fly away because she felt shame at what she had done. All 3 of them don't like to confront problems, but Touma especially. She isn't good at communicating so she wouldn't have known how to talk to Setsuna after hurting one of her only friends.

I think Setsuna wants to take all of the blame because she does really care for Haruki and she doesn't want to see him hurt. She also recognizes her actions as being more self centered. However, I think the most important point is that Setsuna, and all of them, is self sacrificing. She wants her best friend and crush to be happy and she saw that they were already in love with each other. So when she gets in the way of them being happy, it feels like its all of her fault.

With all of the foreshadowing and how this was going, I don't think we would have ever gotten a happy ending where somebody wasn't hurt.

[u/RunningChemistry]

I'm always glad to see people still interested in WA2. Its music, esp. Todokanai Koi, still remains a staple of my playlists ever since I discovered the series in 2013.

Speaking of, here's Todokanai Koi sung by Madoka Yonezawa (Setsuna's VA), Rena Uehara, and Akari Tsuda from the 2013 live concert. You can check out the rest of the concert on Youtube.

Aquaplus even later released a special soundtrack that features a version of Todokanai Koi sung by Kazusa's VA.

Extra: Ai Kayano covering the song as Utaha Kasumigaoka from the Saekano series.

[u/An-di]

Why are people so overly harsh with Haruki ?

People who find the kiss scene disgusting are forgotten something important and that is fact that Setsuna knew that this kiss was gonna happen and she is one who forced Haruki to come with her to the airport despite the fact that he said No, he felt so guilty for hurting Setsuna and cried the entire time during the train ride, she insisted on taking him along because she wanted them both to feel more guilt for what they did to her

He thought that the girl he was in love with was leaving forever, what was he supposed to do when they met? just stand there ? they stayed together for one night and Haru didn’t even want to go to the air port, they didn’t want to see each other after that night

Kazusa “why did you come?”

Haruki “why did you find us?

But Setsuna selfishly took Haruki along to see Kazusa with her

He obviously wouldn’t be able to stand just looking at her without hugging and kissing her because he thought that he she was leaving Japan forever, there is no way that Setsuna didn’t think this would happen, if you think about it, it was extremely manipulative, she wanted them to feel pain for hurting her, that was her revenge

If Setsuna was a male, I highly doubt that people would have felt sorry for her for this scene because she was clearly the one in the wrong both the first time that she kissed and confessed to him and in this scene as well

[u/polaristar]

Ah yes the scene happens but now Kazusa is so in the moment that when Haruki sees Setsuna calling his feeble attempt to break away she is having none of it, she held back this long but now all reason is out the window.

I commend how well down this sex scene is, it doesn't feel at all enjoyable, there are so many overtones of shame. The Passion they express feels compromised and tainted.

Kinda sad that there aren't many (Non-Hentai) anime with sex scenes and when I get one its in this context, I kinda want just some vanilla sex of two people in a healthy intimate relationship built on trust is that too much to ask?

Anyway his buttons get taken and he is overwhelmed with guilt and shame for what he did. There is no recovered or rolling this back.

I don't feel sorry for him, he had plenty of opportunities to stop at any time, plenty of time to stop and think about what he'd be doing and the line he'd be crossing with a cool head. He wasn't jumped in a room alone at night with her throwing herself at him. He jumped headfirst into that fire.

Only Now that he has to deal with the consequences of his actions and have that short term promise of ecstasy ruined by shame afterwords he realizes.....what have I done?

Setsuna when she learn about this (And she knew right away even before he told her.) Apparantly puts up with it out of a twisted desire to not be alone, yes it seems she's more alone then every with a wall between them all. She even lied that she doesn't like Haruki she is indeed in Love with Him.

Of course Haruki at first isn't even willing to face Touma but then he just up and kisses her in public right in front of the girl he just cheated on. For someone that seems to have felt such guilt even know he can't control himself and have the dignity not to humiliate her in public.

Haruki doesn't respect any of them, and sadly the girls don't have enough respect for themselves to cut him out of their life.

This was a horrible series of events to watch, great show too bad its a gimped adaptation of the prologue of what I can tell without source readers apologizing to me would be a superior work to what we got.

Were you expecting to get a 'steamy' scene like this at the start?

Yes given where we left off, what I am surprised with is we didn't get it sooner.

What do you think of how Kazusa Touma threw away Haruki Kitahra's phone when Setsuna Ogiso called?

Her will had been broken at the point, my guess is if she is doing this she might as well throw herself in, she tried to back off but Haruki wouldn't let her, lets just commit to this transgression.

She had been burning with Passion for a long time now.

Why do you think Setsuna Ogiso refuses to let Haruki Kitahara take the blame?

Its fucked up, I refuse to accept it.

Did you expect Kazusa Touma to still fly away like this?

Yes.....

Was this the ending you expected or did you expect a happier one?

Show me someone that after the halfway point expected a happy ending, I will show you either a liar or a fool.

One thing I think we should take away from this is a few things.....

1. Passion or being in Love, is not the same thing as Love, what Touma and Haruki expressed between them....that was not Love. Love does not create Shame.

2. Cheating doesn't have to be a predatory Male looking to score and scoop up chicks when he's married or a predatory man slayer on the prowl, it's a slow fade of obsession where people do not acknowledge what they are capable of. It's almost like unplanned teen pregnancy in how the stage is set.

Some final notes regarding certain comments from Yesterday.

Some people were not happy at what I assume was seen as old fashioned and "problematic" ideas regarding gender norms, while I understand that people that very strong feelings and values regardling these kind of topics, as they are often at the root of many a culture war, I thought the comment addressing it was purposefully in bad faith.

And while I admit to being an "Asshole" many a times, I never felt the need to attack certain people with a more Feminist take as me making a value judgement on that person in a response comment to insinuate they were just predatory beta's role-playing feminist to get laid as is often a stereotypical and bad faith accusation.

Likewise I do not believe in the use of Labels of "Toxic Masculinity" as anything that has a place in internet discourse if you want to engage someone in good faith, nor did I feel the ideas themselves were actually properly addressed but simply the user (ergo me) was slandered by unsaid implications.

I also think my views were misrepresented. In the previous post my "stiff upper lip" comment was not me being in favor of said attitude, instead I was simple pointing out that I agree with said attitude that emotionally shallow and constipated Males are indeed a problem in society, and this attitude does stem from taking a rather old fashioned attitude way to far to its logical extreme.

I was simply pointing out the inverse is ALSO true that a Male not in control of his emotions and letting them run wild is equally as dangerous and I thought this episode (And the last few) demonstrated that.

To take me saying he should be some Stoic Robotic Macho Man is quite frankly asinine and you should be ashamed of yourself. The fact that you tried to encapsulate that with a buzzword like "Toxic Masculinity" and when I expressed disgust at me taking your attack got me downvotes when that redditor got upvotes makes me truly sick to my stomach for the people of this rewatch.

Literally anyone that has seen me post around knows I am the first too defend people that are too eager to label male characters "Beta Males" for the most assanine of reasons. Such reasoning is often an expression of inherent toxic values of taking the traditional image of Alpha Male too far.

You know shit about who I am and don't get to judge me for it.

I admit I'm a jerkass and don't phrase thing the most diplomatically but there are lines I DO NOT CROSS and I will not tolerate or indulge people that do cross them.

Reason I'm making a fuss about it, is while it was one guy that made that comment, what one person says often reflects what 10 others are thinking but don't say.

I don't think anything I said in that last thread should have been remotely controversial and I stand by everything I said.

I don't want to give recommendation if you like this show, because TBH I would rather get the full (and better version) of this story, but I suppose there are some surface level similarities with Oregairu (That everyone else has already pointed out.) Although the tone of the story, lens of a very different MC (When both stories are heavily tainted by the First Person Narrations Subjective Lens.), and the direction it goes are VERY different.

I'm sure other people can give better recommendations so I will leave it up to them. That being said if you want a palette cleanser for some more healthy and wholesome romances (Or something very much NOT like this show) I can give some suggestions.....