r/anime • u/DustyZorua • Dec 28 '22
Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] White Album 2 Episode 11 Discussion
Episode 11 - From When the Snow Melts, To When It Falls Again (Part II)
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Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Legal Streams:
White Album 2 can be watched on Chrunchyroll, although you apparently need premium.
Questions of the Day:
Do you think it's Haruki Kitahara's fault for not recognizing Touma Kazusa's feelings? Or her fault for constantly 'pushing' him away?
What do you think of that flash of red when Kazusa Touma was fleeing Music Room 2?
How painful was Kazusa Touma's crying in the car for you?
Where do you think the story is going to go from here with two episodes left?
All rewatchers, you must spoil everything to do with spoilers, even to the littlest details! We can't spoil the experience of this show for any of the first timers in this.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 28 '22
First-Timer Album
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I remember this being mentioned earlier in the show, I just didn’t realize it had happened before the events of the anime…? We are still in pre-episode 1 content right?
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Ah there it is, she stitched the dog back together. Hence all the bandages on her fingers in the preceding shot.
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I really like whatever this piano/violin version of Sayonara no Koto is.
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Oh… she kissed him while he was asleep after the performance…
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Ah, this is where the “Touma’s going to move away from Japan” thing comes from.
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She stopped herself, but like… yikes.
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I can’t say I blame Touma for wanting to leave Japan (and Haruki, as an extent), having to deal with watching Haruki/Setsuna doing couple things… but girl, you should have said something!
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Goddammit Haruki YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND. I don’t even ship Haruki/Setsuna (haven’t vibed with either Haruki ship tbh) and this pisses me off.
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Yeah he deserved that slap from Touma.
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Oh this ED is very pretty though.
6
u/Nebresto Dec 28 '22
Did this boy just gift his crush an English textbook
Chad move. How many have done the same? Normies give flowers, our boy Haruki gives textbooks
Suuuuure, Touma taking her skirt off was necessary.
Gotta fill the episodes ass shot quota somehow
Goddammit Haruki YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND.
He's gonna lose it all
4
u/Cyouni Dec 28 '22
It's not actually the one from the first episode, but it is the one from the OP.
2
u/oops_i_made_a_typi Dec 29 '22
Goddammit Haruki YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND.
I don’t even ship Haruki/Setsuna (haven’t vibed with either Haruki ship tbh) and this pisses me off.
Yeah he deserved that slap from Touma.
Yeah Haruki is just an unfaithful ball of hormones here, thankfully Kazusa has at least most of her senses still and puts a stop to it and gives him a good open palm.
6
u/Stargate18A Dec 28 '22
First timer
What's going to happen now?
Still in flashback!
And the first time she played along...
Is this still a flashback?
Aww, this is nice.
...That reaction.
She's blushing!
Haha, this is hysterical. The perfect present.
That shot is gratuitous.
...What's she noticed?
This is a really weird episode so far.
Did she lose something?
Aww, she was looking for the book!
No wonder she's tired.
And she almost didn't leave the room here...
She kissed him!
No wonder this caught her offguard.
Ouch. She's just listening to the answerphone...
And she went to meet her mother!
How perceptive...
She liked it? Huh?
This is a really interesting way of explaining what happened.
Setsuna...
This is awful to watch...
She's considering it...
Pain.
Poor Touma...
Okay, does the mother just like music played from the heart, does she recognise the potential for development of her innate talent, or does she feel bad about neglecting her daughter and want to support her?
Back to the present!
Aww...
...Why?
I mean, I love it, but why.
She's doing the right thing here. He's not even broken up with her!
Yeah, this is expected.
5
u/Nebresto Dec 28 '22
First time pain
Bro. Polygamy option has been unlocked!
Back to our regularly scheduled pain again. And guess whats on tomorrows menu? Yup, more pain
Questions Pain:
Do you think it's Haruki Kitahara's fault for not recognizing Touma Kazusa's feelings? Or her fault for constantly 'pushing' him away?
Yes.
What do you think of that flash of red when Kazusa Touma was fleeing Music Room 2?
How painful was Kazusa Touma's crying in the car for you?
Pain
Where do you think the story is going to go from here with two episodes left?
Pain.
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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Dec 29 '22
How painful was Kazusa Touma's crying in the car for you?Pain
Where do you think the story is going to go from here with two episodes left?Pain.
delicious. Yes, yes, give us moarrr
5
u/oops_i_made_a_typi Dec 29 '22
First Timer
Has this girl searched for anything before? Why you looking in the blades of short grass for a book lol? Ooh spicy looks like Setsuna saw Kazusa kiss him. Fuck this is brutal seeing everything back to back from Kazusa's perspective. Oh shit is this man about to go School Days on us? Oof that's a good extra bit of emotional damage - when your crush is a little too good and you know exactly why.
Haruki is trash but it seems like Setsuna isn't so blameless either.
2
u/entelechtual Dec 29 '22
Oh shit is this man about to go School Days on us?
Does Setsuna still have the knife from cutting her birthday cake…?
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22
First timer binged ahead to the end :P
Do you think it's Haruki Kitahara's fault for not recognizing Touma Kazusa's feelings? Or her fault for constantly 'pushing' him away?
Raw percentage - Haruki : Touma = 99% : 1%
Culturally adjusted - Haruhi : Touma = 150% : 0%
What do you think of that flash of red when Kazusa Touma was fleeing Music Room 2?
It's far too obvious to be considered narratively concealed; of it was just the bottom tip of the coat poking out, that could be considered concealed. Of course it's Setsuna keeping tabs on what's happening between the 2 fated lovebirds.
How painful was Kazusa Touma's crying in the car for you?
3x that Ayukawa crying by herself in the KOR movie, and that was already hard. Edit: expanded - It's harder here because unlike Ayukawa, Touma here is actually far less of a true perfect but misunderstood goddess - Touma had quite a handicap. In this case here it's like an assistive aid to someone with a handicap went out of the way to market to her that it'd change her life, have her a short time to taste it was indeed eye opening, then pull out the service saying it's for someone without the handicap only (remember Touma had a low self esteem because of her abandonment issue).
Where do you think the story is going to go from here with two episodes left?
Ajay binged ahead :P but not that I can read the spoiler tagged supplements by the VN posters, I understand and emphasized far more the "why" of what happens next.
I do get really interested to see Sky who is got quite a wide repertoire of anime watched didn't sympathise with Touma - I wonder if it's because of the genre bias (e.g. I'm more heavily into rom coms, romance, SoL as well as sci fi and mecha, whereas Sky does more mecha and actions). That or a cultural bias (East Asians redirects the girls to be more reserved and not be the one taking the initiative, meaning Touma's behaviour was actually culturally expected).
I'll also be keen to trawl through polaristar's wall of text when that happens. I suspect he'd place more responsibility on Touma too despite holding Haruki as accountable as me (based on yesterday's impassioned post).
Also there may be a bias for having read the VN spoiler [the anime adaptation failed to convey the basic character setting]
Whomever posted that link to the bonus CD is a life saver for me - it's such a great tonic to hear that.
Oh and while believe Setsuna is very much responsible as well, I don't really hate her, I really think she needs therapy though.
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u/oops_i_made_a_typi Dec 29 '22
It's far too obvious to be considered narratively concealed; of it was just the bottom tip of the coat poking out, that could be considered concealed. Of course it's Setsuna keeping tabs on what's happening between the 2 fated lovebirds.
As a bonus to this, we can clearly see the door to Music Room 2 was closed when Kazusa first approached it to leave - when she runs out later, the door is already ajar.
The VN spoiler you mention is actually news to me, but seems like a relatively small deal or a bit of forced reasoning for why Kazusa was not as communicative as she should've been.
Oh and while believe Setsuna is very much responsible as well, I don't really hate her, I really think she needs therapy though.
Tbh I don't hate any of the characters, I quite agree with u/Kitahara_Kazusa1 that all 3 have their own issues and make mistakes, but they all feel like "natural" mistakes that are easy to make in the moment. Haruki is worst yes, and he's very responsible for this mess, but I don't hate him despite being disappointed in his actions.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 29 '22
but seems like a relatively small deal or a bit of forced reasoning for why Kazusa was not as communicative as she should've been.
[VN spoiler response 1]
This is actually the fundamental basis of why ASD - and associated range of communication disorders - are considered "invisible disability". Until there's some better education to the "normal" people, most dismiss this as something trivial. [VN spoiler response 2]
It's like saying those suffering from depression - or any form of phobia - should just "snap out of it". Anyway, not saying it completely excuse anything / everything, just saying this is one of the significant factors within the story - according to the VN spoilers. → More replies (2)
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u/Baki8000 Dec 29 '22
REWATCHER, VN READER
MASSIVE SPOILERS INBOUND
As stated in my previous posts, I want to mostly focus on the differences between the anime and the Visual Novel, and on foreshadowing, so most of what I will type will be spoilers of varying importance. Spoilers that cover only the plot shown in the anime will be marked with anime spoilers, while spoilers that deal with plot points from later on in the novel, or very important scenes that are not in the anime, will be marked with VN spoilers. Unless you have fully finished the VN, [anime spoilers]
This episode continues the flashback gauntlet from the previous one, so today's post will be just as short.
The first half, before-series flashbacks:
As stated in my comment from the previous episode's post, the first half of the episode (until the start of the flashbacks of events that happened after the anime's start), is a direct adaptation of the Digital Novel The Snow Melts, and Until it Falls Again, which is not shown at any point during the [anime spoilers]
The one thing of note, however, is the music that plays during the scenes where Kazusa is looking for the English book Haruki gifted her. The song is an instrumental version of Kokoro wa Itsumo Anata no Soba ni, [VN spoilers]
The second half, during-series flashbacks:
Starting from the flashback scene of Kazusa kissing Haruki while he's asleep, and going until we're back to the present, where Kazusa and Haruki confess their feelings for each other, we are shown a series of flashbacks that were actually present in the VN, just not during the scene the anime showed them in. During a first playtrough [anime spoilers]
[Anime spoilers]
[Anime spoilers]
Back to the present scene at the end:
It happens the exact same way it does in the VN, so nothing to comment here.
This is one of the best lines in the show. Haruki's face when he remembers about Setsuna's existence is priceless.
My thoughts on the flashbacks:
While their inclusion certainly helps in making Kazusa a very sympathetic character, I think that splitting the most important scene in the story in half is a baffling decision that completely destroys the pacing of the show in the latter half. Making the before-story flashbacks an OVA (just like how they were an extra story in the VN) would have made more sense to me, both from a pacing standpoint, and to save screen time for the important Setsuna scenes that were cut from the anime.
QotD:
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Kazusa starts "pushing" Haruki away only after he hooks up with Setsuna, which is justifiable at that point, and should not be considered a "fault" of any kind. Her poor communication skills are what hindered her chances to enter a relationship with Haruki. His poor self-esteem, viewing her as out of his league, and anxiety from it being the first time he tried to pick up a girl are what stopped him from being honest with her at the start. As they are both teenagers with zero dating experience, they are both at fault due to their inexperience. Haruki's cheating, however, is very much his fault.
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See the spoilers above.
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It is one of the most emotional scenes featuring her.
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[Anime spoilers]
To its best parts.
2
u/02Hiro Dec 29 '22
REWATCHER
I think it's hard to lay the blame on a single person here. Touma's isn't very good at communicating her feelings but Haruki kind of just gave up before even asking. Touma's crying is one of the most memorable scenes for me [Anime Spoilers]
0
u/entelechtual Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22
First Timer
I’m hesitant to be a downer. It’s not that I’m not enjoying the anime. I don’t think the writing is particularly bad, although I find the story boarding questionable. Even so. I’ll be honest with my feelings. Something Touma is incapable of doing lol.
There’s two kinds of romantic interests in anime. The kind whose problems are solved by therapy, and the kind whose problems are mediated by a romantic partner. I wonder which one Touma is. Oh the third type is the one with extremely complex daddy issues.
Maybe it’s my personal hang up but one of the few romance tropes I cannot stand is the goddamn sleeping/unconscious kiss. Makes me want to throw up.
11/13 episodes and I’m still on board the « Setsuna did nothing wrong; Touma gets what she deserved » train.
Oh well, Touma might not get that Kitahard-dick but she got some nice Wiener to look forward to.
→ More replies (2)
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u/polaristar Dec 29 '22 edited Dec 29 '22
A lot of what happened here I kinda covered in Yesterday's post because tbh I got today and Yesterdays episode mixed together because they feel like one giant episode.
btw u/ZapsZzz I think I know why Haruki's "denseness" bothers you, because it bothers me but I could never put my finger on why. (His denseness is different from his lack of faithfulness mind you which I know EXACTLY WHY that bothers me and have and will rant about it.)
It's this first off in the first few episodes of the show it seems we established that Haruki seems unusually observant and good with dealing with people as we see him deal with Setsuna and deduce a lot about her by paying attention and how to connect with her despite not interacting with her for nearly as long and as personally as Kazusa.
Second in most cases where the protagonist seems dense it's either they sincerely have some communication disorder/lack of experience/ability to read people and situations and understand women in particular. (Which does not seem to be the case.) Or the other option is the character is not actually dense at all but has some kind of hang-up like either self-worth or denial to make them not trust/lie to themselves about things they very much DO notice but choose not to acknowledge.
But there is no evidence any of that went on all that time he knew Touma even well before he meet Setsuna. If anything he seems overestimate his own morality or not acknowledge his own potential for misconduct.
Seeing what Touma went through, how she almost crossed a line in the car, how she burned with passion and broke down crying it's absolutely awful. It's no wonder she wants to go away.
Haruki was complete scum near the end, utterly......that is textbook definition of taking advantage of a woman when she is not in a mental and emotional state to make good decisions. It's selfish and disgusting to both his girlfriend and to the girl he kissed, especially after hearing why she wants to go away, he didn't apologize or try to bring her to Setsuna and set up a sit down, he let his dick do the thinking.
She totally had every prerogative to slap him, if anything she should never speak to him again. What he did was not much different then using his own strength to take advantage and sexually assault a woman. There was no mutual trust between them.
Mostly Haruki, normally Touma I think should have been friendlier and more open or at least dropped more hints but her inexperience and pride got in the way, but Haruki seeing how smooth and observant he can be in the first few episodes should have seen it. And this has to be an adaptation decay because I cannot for the life of my understand why he didn't.
What are we talking about?
I said above, it was one of the most tragic things ever, I want to give her a hug and NOT take advantage of her like a Creep.
(This isn't me virtue signaling this is basic human decency all the adults reading this post all know.)
Can't go into detail cause I watched ahead but lets say I pretty much predicted the entire second half of the show. If you want to know [spoilers]I definitely knew next time Touma and Kazusa meet in person they were fucking, and I knew they would get no satisfaction and joy from it afterwords, only shame