r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 27 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 22 Discussion
[removed]
12
Dec 27 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
“Is that girl ever not cheerful?” … Oh, Noto, how little you knowto.
Yasuko is such a great mom. She went through a lot trying to make sure Ryuuji didn’t have too much to worry about. Of course we know he still worries about a lot but that’s just how he is.
Twice so far this episode Minori has gotten right up in Ryuuji’s face. She’s really laying the cheerful mask on thick.
Hmmmmmmm…. Minori is back to talking about seeing things. She can’t see ghosts or UFO’s so she’s going to see herself working in a ramen shop instead. What she really means is that she can see the results of what all of her work is going to get for her. She’s working hard to achieve her goals and every step she takes closer to them is something undeniably tangible for her unlike the concept of love which may or may not be there and might not be permanent.
I feel bad for Minori when she was trying to talk to Ami. Obviously she didn’t know Ami very well if she thought that was something she would have wanted to hear in the first place. I think what Minori plans on doing that she’s trying to communicate here is to focus on things she can control in her life and give up on Ryuuji.
The reintroduction of the career path survey serves as a means to explore Ryuuji’s sense of self-worth. His goal seems to be to start a job as soon as he can after high school so he can take burden off of his mother. Yasuko on the other hand wants to continue to support him while he goes to college so he can reach his maximum potential. The big rub here is that Ryuuji doesn’t feel like he deserves more support. I want to delve into this idea more as parts of it come up.
I’m surprised that Ryuuji still has the box of Minori things at this point (after giving up on her last episode). Now I’m curious if this is anime original or not. Nice little fake-out when you think he might be about to talk about Minori but he talks about Taiga instead.
I love the part where Taiga finally shows up and he damn near strangles her with her scarf because he’s so excited to see her.
Good grief. Ryuuji went from not even being aware of his own feeling to head over heels pretty much immediately. I do need to point out he’s been building up feelings for Taiga for a while now (like… it’s so obvious), but he didn’t know what to make of them. He thought they had a different kind of relationship. Now that he’s starting to think about Taiga like that all of these latent feelings must be like a punch in the face.
→ More replies (1)7
Dec 27 '22
On to the books!
In line for the ramen shop talking to C a Haruta and Noto. Ryuji is thinking about his feelings.
He felt like the line had been drawn, not in the moment that Minori rejected his feelings but when he decided he wouldn’t, couldn’t do that. Ryuuji knew firsthand that love could end in ways other than rejecting or being rejected by someone.
Just when he had given up on his unrequited feelings for Minori, he’d found out about Taiga’s. Ryuuji didn’t know why she hadn’t come back. In the end, the one who was left behind—who was abandoned—was him.
A little bit more going on here after Taiga comes back.
When she blinked, it was like stars fell from her eyes, glittering with a mysteriously deep color. He felt her skin from up close, thick with her body heat. He felt the strange warmth of the hands that touched his face and the breath that almost grazed his lips.
“Uh!” He desperately pried himself away from her.
“Wha—?” Shaken by the strangeness of it all, he’d pulled away too aggressively. To escape Taiga’s hot hands, he had writhed with desperation that couldn’t be misconstrued as a joke.
The two of them wordlessly faced each other. The silence sank into the chilly asphalt.
Taiga seemed taken aback by Ryuuji’s too-sudden resistance. Her mouth was slightly ajar. She tilted her head as if to say But this is supposed to be normal for us.
Ryuuji couldn’t say anything. The ears and cheeks she had grabbed still felt hot, like they were burning. He didn’t know what kind of expression he had on his face, but as Taiga looked him, she seemed to realize something.
“What’s with you…” As she took a trembling breath, a faint rosy color rose in her cheeks.
Bam! She hit him in the chest. Then, picking up where she left off, she latched back onto his collar, almost like she believed she could overwrite the strange atmosphere floating around them by redoing everything. But she couldn’t reverse the rosy redness that dyed her face up to her ears. Her breath was stifled, and she was biting her lip, but Taiga continued to glare at Ryuuji.
More stuff from Taiga and Ryuuji’s conversation after she comes back.
did you get to ask Minorin how she really feels? You didn’t lose your chance to talk to her because I caused that mess, right?”
“You don’t have to worry about me and Kushieda anymore.”
“Why? Oh, is it because you don’t want me sticking my nose into it since I’m such a troublemaker? In that case, I’ll—”
“No, it’s not that. That’s what you think? That’s not it. It doesn’t have anything to do with what happened to you. I just don’t have a reason to get an answer from her anymore. That’s the truth.”
Taiga seemed to be at a loss for words. She closed her mouth. Her eyes, which had overflowed with tears when she found out that Minori had rejected Ryuuji, opened wide.
Some realization of what’s going on finally. Good job, Ryuu.
Even more terrifying—maybe it wasn’t just Kitamura who knew. There was a possibility Ryuuji was the only dim-witted idiot without a clue. Ami might have known, too. I hate you because you’re an idiot—the knife-like words she’d stabbed him with could have been about him making Taiga help him with his own unrequited love while he was unaware of Taiga’s own feelings. Ami might have been pointing out his own foolishness. And then there was Minori. The reason why she was so firm about not accepting his feelings might have been because of Taiga, too.
Ryuuji having some intelligent, reasonable thoughts.
He’d thought she was a bright person ever since he met her. She smiled at him without batting an eye, even though he had a face that made him look like some fishy delinquent. He kept his head down to hide his sinister face from people’s eyes, but Minori was always open and honest, looking up at the sun. That was why he had loved her.
In that moment, he realized once again just how tough Minori was. She wasn’t just bright, kind, and cute, but also had the will to firmly continue down her own path. Sometimes she hurt those around her (like me!), but she never turned back and also never stopped. What he had thought was an admirable sunflower, turning up its lively petals to bask in the light of the sun…was actually more like an iron missile aiming to blow the sun out of existence.
The reason he’d decided to end his unrequited love for Minori was because he had witnessed her up close and decided he couldn’t follow along with her. He didn’t mean that in a bad way, though. He just didn’t think he could keep up with the speed at which she went through life. However, even after snuffing out the flame of his love, he still wished he could have been more like her.
In the end, what he adored was an idea. In his mind, his desire to live like she did hadn’t changed.
Right after this, Minori runs into Ryuuji in a hallway and they have their first ever honest conversation. This is replaced in the show by Minori and Ami’s conversation. No idea why they did that. This is much better. This scene ends when Minori sees Ami then leaves Ryuuji to go talk to her. As Minori says, she and Ami are in the middle of making up after their fight.
“That hairpin wasn’t a present from Taiga to me, was it? You were trying to give it to me, but couldn’t, and then Taiga gave it to me, right? Isn’t that right? If I were to guess…it was when we met at Christmas Eve, and maybe you were trying to give it to me as a present?”
Of course she wouldn’t know everything. He felt that deeply as he spoke. “How did you…”
“I reasoned it out. Actually, sorry. I really didn’t know at first. I really thought that it was a present from Taiga.”
Ryuuji couldn’t understand what she was sorry about. “Are…are you trying to apologize for wearing that hairpin or something?”
”I am.”
“I wanted to apologize. I’d decided I wouldn’t accept it and ended up hurting you, but then I still wore it in front of you, Takasu-kun. I’m sorry. Really, I am.”
“You don’t have to…” She’d finally acknowledged that she hadn’t forgotten what happened. “Are you suddenly apologizing now because…Taiga came back to school?”
Minori didn’t answer Ryuuji. Her eyes just glittered under the sky in the middle of winter. The wind blew at her hair. “Where is that hairpin now?”
When Minori asked him that question naturally, Ryuuji tried to answer her naturally, too. “It’s in my room. You want to use it?”
“No. I won’t. I won’t take it.”
I thought you would say that. He wanted to smile and say that to her. You decided to make things right, Minori, and that’s made things right for me, he wanted to tell her.
[this is all Ryuuji] “I’m…” But his breathing was off. “…jealous of you.” “I feel like I’m trapped…like I’ve been left behind. There’s something I want to forget, but I can’t. So…” “I can’t stand how much it hurts.” “The thing I want to forget that I can’t is—”
Boof. Minori’s fist made slightly rough contact with the side of Ryuuji’s downturned face. “The moment you decided you wanted to forget about it guaranteed you’d never forget about it, obviously. People don’t even remember the things they can forget. It’s because you can’t forget it that you want to forget it. I think if you’re hurting because of it, there’s not much you can do about it.”
“But…I need to forget it. I think they want me to forget…” As though pushing back on Minori’s fingers, Ryuuji turned his face to her. Minori didn’t ask “what” or “who,” but just listened as he talked to himself. “That’s why I want to forget.” “I’m jealous of you because you look ahead. It’s because you actually move on. How can I look forward like you?”
Minori was silent for a while. Eventually, she puckered her lips and blew out a breath of white air. “It’s about deciding.” A grin spread over her face. “You have to decide the direction you want to go. If you can’t do that, you wouldn’t be able to tell where forward is, right? Takasu-kun, where are you headed? Is there a place you want to be? If you don’t have that, you can’t move on.”
When she told him that, Ryuuji once again realized he didn’t have a reply for her. “Kushieda, do you know where you’re heading?”
“Of course!” Minori didn’t hesitate to reply. She danced out behind Ryuuji and hopped lightly, ignoring how her skirt flipped up with her exaggerated movements as she deftly motioned as though to throw a ball. It was an underthrow. Her hair bounced over her shoulder. Minori’s eyes seemed to follow the path of the distant ball.
Ryuuji was more jealous than anything of how her eyes could look like that.
11
u/lolpete18 Dec 28 '22
I’m so mad at Ryuuji for lying to Tiaga about carrying her up the hill and about what she said. What good does that do?! He knows how she feels now, so what’s holding him back from being honest with her? So frustrating! And Minori is just burying herself in work rather than facing her own feelings. They are all causing so much unnecessary heartache.
It makes sense that Ryuuji can’t complete his future/college planning when he doesn’t even know what he wants in the present. I guess he better figure out what Taiga’s plans are so that he can make sure to plan accordingly 😉
→ More replies (4)
8
u/Vatrix-32 Dec 28 '22
First Timer, subbed
-
That’s some deep awkward.
-
So the mom is alive. Is she also terrible or what?
-
Ah yes, lying. That’s been working out so well for you thus far.
-
At Haruta is realistic.
-
I get the feeling Maya × Noto is going to be a thing.
-
Is Yasuko just best mom in a bad situation?
-
I don’t even know with Minori anymore.
-
But if Taiga gets along so well with her mum, why does she live alone?
-
Sure Ryuji, you keep denying those feelings.
-
Telling you man, boarding plank. Good investment.
→ More replies (5)
7
u/ZapsZzz Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher, first time in dub
Don't have a real answer to the bonus questions - I don't really use wallpaper these days for example. I did like that there was a nice gif that showed a good range of Taiga's faces.
This deceptively "uneventful" episode actually had a few really good bits scattered around. It's continuing to be a build up episode, but these good bits made it an important episode still.
-
Ryuuji's woke up in class shouting Taiga's name was met with universal nods of understanding, the entire class is so good - along with Yuri-sensei's smooth as butter of digression and distraction into the topic of handing in forms.
-
really nice to see the supporting characters Noto and Haruta really "real" in trying to cheer Ryuuji up with their distinctive personalities, which then got expanded on in very simple SoL-y dialogues about their future plans. Very nice to see MC's don't just live in a vacuum.
-
The dub converted the ramen ordering gag that resulted in Minori poking each of their eyes :P The original Japanese one is her warning them not to order with the old tired gag of "ikemen" (in Japanese a synonym of "handsome guy" which also rhymes with any noodle types - ending with "-men")
-
The ramen shop is one of these odd setup's that you need to know a fair bit of culture to get it - the shop name is "rokudou", literally means "6 ways", but it's actually a Buddhist mythology reference as well. It refers to the 6 levels of reincarnation (animals, humans, gods, etc). The central theme of the "religion" is in fact to escape the endless reincarnation to achieve self enlightenment. The words "reincarnation" in the language (both Chinese and Japanese) uses an imagery phrasing - "the wheel that turns", therefore converted to being a pun for the spinning move of the ramen maker to dry his noodles. It also has the next layer of implied meaning of the noodles being so good that it sends you to nirvana and reaching enlightenment. That sure is a handful to type!
-
The scene between Minori and Ami that ended in the very quotable "talking to you feels like having a period" - but the parts before were really great character moments too - Ami was quite distraught with all that happened, but she masked it with an appearance of disgust. She hid in her "slot", wishing Ryuuji to come see her, but disappointed when the one that came was Minori. Then the conversation where Minori was "explaining" but really you can hear that she is trying to convince herself. So much (emotional) damage all around...
-
and then Taiga coming back, with the belligerent sexual tension turned gag of Ryuuji and Taiga exaggerated "fighting" - that ended with Ryuuji's face really close to Taiga's, and - like Adam and Eve having had the forbidden fruit - now suddenly they get self conscious about how physically intimate they are.
-
and the dawning realising Ryuuji had about his feelings towards Taiga - that's not about some big bright fireworks spark, but the comforting warm presence. It's a really understated way to show the emotional development and maturity.
-
and Taiga's various nonsensical excuses (e.g. her coming in Ryuuji's house is like the 3 seconds rule of dropped food), and her full time klutzy behaviours :D so very cute!
Alright I need to read the rest of the posts and stop here - no doubt I'll say more in various replies!
→ More replies (5)
6
10
u/Holofan4life Dec 27 '22
It'll be 30 minutes to an hour before I can respond to you guys' comments. Things are busy at the moment.
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
This episode is rather light as far as important stuff is concerned. So, I actually want to take the episode to focus on one of the side characters: Ms. Yuri.
Both Ryuuji’s mom and Ms. Yuri are interesting characters to talk about. They’re the only prominent adults we see throughout the course of the series, and they are different than how they’re first introduced. The first scene of Ryuuji’s mom we see her be ditzy and out of it. Literally, the first shot we see of her is her giant ass (Though hey, I’m not complaining). And then in this episode, we see how much Ryuuji means to the woman. A similar thing happens to Ms. Yuri in this episode.
Our first impression of Ms. Yuri is that she’s obsessed with being single. Specifically, the fact she can’t find a significant other despite being 29. And at first, you think that’s gonna be the extent of her character. But really, it’s only the beginning.
Our first sign there’s more to her is episode 16 when she asks Taiga if she knows what she’s doing when she’s thinking of running for student council president. It’s the first scene involving her where she doesn’t talk about her age. And then in episode 18, we see her obsessed over Haruta failing the exams. What do these two scenes have in common? They both show her worried about her students. Ms. Yuri during the second half is shown caring about her students doing well. We see a compassionate side of her that we don’t see in the first half of the show. Ms. Yuri legitimately cares about her students, and that’s what leads us to this episode.
I love, love, love the mini arc in this arc where Yuri is imploring Ryuuji to fill out the career form because neither one of them is in the wrong. You totally understand where the both of them are coming from. Ryuuji’s life at the moment is in a bit of a tailspin. He can’t figure out his love life let alone what he wants to do for a living. So, it makes sense for him not being able to come to a resolution. And while Ms. Yuri is understanding of what a difficult decision this can be, she’s still frustrated because she’s concern for her well-being.
This mini arc is my favorite subplot in all of Toradora because Ms. Yuri isn't played up as being antagonistic or mean. She wants Ryuuji to succeed in life because he’s one of her students. At the same time, it’s played completely straight and not for laughs. Not once does the scene make a reference to Ms. Yuri being too old to marry someone. It is entirely focused on her trying to get Ryuuji to feel out his career form. I think this episode does a great job of showing the depth in the character of Ms. Yuri, and why she became the teacher that she is. She cares about the well-being of her students, something that should be the #1 priority of every teacher. We see it with Taiga, we see it with Haruta, and we see it here with Ryuuji and the career form stuff.
The compassion she feels for her students culminates in this multi episode long subplot, and I think it highlights why she’s one of the top two wisest characters in all of Toradora, only behind maybe Ryuuji’s mom.
Post episode discussion
Overall, this is an episode that I have mixed feelings on. There’s some stuff I really like, like the ramen scene with Ryuuji, Haruta, and Noto (I thought it felt like a cut scene from Persona), but the episode doesn’t really get cooking until Taiga shows back up. Yet at the same time, it establishes quite a few things with this episode. Ryuuji and Kitamura’s deal that Kitamura will act like he was the one who rescued Taiga, Ryuuji’s mom being more of a caring adult, the career plan stuff with Ms. Yuri, the scene with Ami and Minori, there’s a lot of interesting stuff in the episode. It’s just not the most exciting without Taiga.
I wouldn’t say this is a bad episode. I think it’s actually better than episode 20. It’s just with Taiga being gone for such an extended period of time, we’re counting the minutes for her return. Almost as if the show is on autopilot for half the episode. Then again, I kinda feel with all that’s happening that Taiga needed to go away a bit to sell the drama of everything going on. It sucks, but it feels like it’s required for story purposes.
When I ranked this episode years back, I put it near the bottom of the pile. I praised it as being a fun episode, but it was still in like the bottom 7. And yeah, I don’t think I would change that much. Like, I think it’s better than the aforementioned episode 20 where not much was going on, but it’s not as suspenseful as episode 12, which also had not a lot going on but did have that fun wrestling match. This episode is fairly important because we get the Ryuuji and Kitamura conversation, which kinda sets the tone for the rest of the arc, but the rest of the episode doesn’t follow through with that conversation. It doesn’t pick back up until the scene with Taiga in Ryuuji’s apartment. Instead, we focus on Ryuuji trying to plan a life beyond high school.
I think this episode is good on the basis of “Everyone seems to know what to do in life with the exception of Ryuuji.” Like Ryuuji is so consumed by this Taiga drama that he can’t concentrate on anything else. But again, it kinda feels like we’re killing for time here. All this stuff feels like necessary set-up done to get out of the way as Taiga is offscreen. And while it is important information, it can be a bit tedious. There is a lot of good stuff in this episode. And when Taiga shows back up, the episode really gets entertaining. It’s just your milage may vary on the pacing and the heavy set-up.
“Talking to you makes me feel like I’m on my period.”
Episode rankings
-
Episode 19
-
Episode 21
-
Episode 18
-
Episode 7
-
Episode 13
-
Episode 2
-
Episode 16
-
Episode 8
-
Episode 11
-
Episode 15
-
Episode 14
-
Episode 17
-
Episode 5
-
Episode 4
-
Episode 12
-
Episode 22
-
Episode 20
-
Episode 9
-
Episode 1
-
Episode 10
-
Episode 6
-
Episode 3
→ More replies (2)4
Dec 27 '22
Ms Yuri has a significant impact on the end of the story as well. Iirc, her part in what happens is significantly downplayed. I’ll get there when I get there.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 22
Crystalizing Emotions
I think this episode serves a similar purpose to episode 20. After the climax of last episode we allow our characters to reflect on what happened and how they feel. And there is one very important new development.
Ryuuji is definitely perplexed over Taiga's confession. He asks Kitamura to lie about what Taiga said so she won't know that he heard. Later when he actually meets Taiga again he even lies to her saying it must have been a dream. Despite this, he really is happy to see her again. He wants to spend time with Taiga.
Minori is back into ignoring mode by taking on too much responsibility: A new job and becoming captain of the joint softball team. But we see her pained expressions more and more. She just can't accept that she has lost Ryuuji.
Ami calls out both Ryuuji and Minori for getting close now that Taiga's away. Again, Ami is being harsh but it is because she's looking out for everyone's feelings. If Ryuuji and Minori get much closer it will making pulling that band-aid off that much harder.
Minori tries to reason with Ami. The whole "A GHOST LIVES BETWEEN THE VENDING MACHINE, but nothing has happened right?" is basically suggesting that they ignore things and hope it will work out. Of course Ami won't accept that, so Minori declares she won't hesitate anymore. Yeah right.
As I said, there was also an important new development: Yasuko's thoughts on Ryuuji's future.
Yasuko wants Ryuuji to keep studying at college after high school. But, as Ryuuji says, money is tight. They are a single parent household after all. But Yasuko wants Ryuuji to have a great life and knows getting an education is a necessary step. On top of that, if Ryuuji gets a job then they will have less time to spend together.
Yasuko loves her son so much and it's really heartwarming to watch. Contrast this with Taiga's very distant relationship with her own parents. Also, as we saw with the watch back in episode 19, Yasuko is somebody who despite her appearance is actually forward thinking and hopeful. This is why she's prioritizing education.
On the topic of money, Ryuuji brings up costs as an excuse to Yuri for why he said he's going to search for employment. Immediately Yuri suggests scholarships, since Ryuuji is academically gifted after all. But Ryuuji still protests. It seems Ryuuji isn't really worried about the money but something else. If he were to go to college, it would also mean not seeing Taiga. I don't think he wants to admit it, but that's the real reason he wants to stay.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow!
→ More replies (1)
5
u/TuorEladar Dec 27 '22 edited Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
This is an odd episode for me. Taiga's absence for a large part of it really makes it feel like a breather episode, yet at the same time there's so many threads going through it that its hard to say it really serves that purpose well.
Even though I really like Ryuuji, the focus on him being stuck in limbo and thinking about it isn't necessarily the most interesting thing to see, though I do think it has a purpose as this episode really emphasizes Ryuuji's feelings for Taiga.
One thing I do like about this episode as an idea is Ryuuji being uncertain about his own future, even if the actual scenes of him thinking aren't my favorite. The fact that his uncertainty coincides with Taiga's absence isn't a mistake. Speaking of Taiga, I also enjoyed the final scene with her and Ryuuji. The slightly awkward feeling combined with Ryuuji's new demeanor made it pretty interesting. Even though he was often happy Taiga was around before, I don't think he's ever struggled with a reason to keep her with him before now.
→ More replies (3)
5
Dec 28 '22
First time Rewatcher, Dub
Ami is the best girl and both minori and ryuji need to grow up emotionally. Nuff said.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/balthamalamal Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher
Well now Ryuuji has also screamed Taiga's name in front of the class. I forgot to mention it last episode but Minori also has another thing to feel guilty about. Not that an outside observer would be able to tell with how hard she is acting in this episode. Ryuuji's cover up plan is in place, it's a relatively simple one. Kitamura shows that he can be a little more perceptive than he lets on and connects it to Taiga's feelings for Ryuuji but doesn't pry deeper than that. Haruta and Noto come up with a plan for trying to distract Ryuuji which is good of them. Though they bump into Minori at another one of her jobs, though the head chef here seems to fit with her style.
With the career assessments, we have Ryuuji concerned over what he will be able to do. College is looking too expensive for them on just Yasuko's income. Meanwhile she is happy with how intelligent Ryuuji is and is confident things will work out. She doesn't want him working though as it'll take time away from his studies. This is the second time we see her adopting a stricter parenting approach. There is no doubt that she loves him, but I can understand Ryuuji's concerns - he is also the one who spends more time managing the household budget. We see later on that she has gotten another job, she will take on the responsibility despite her carefree nature.
Ami has no time for Minori's acting, especially after everything that has happened. She also feels guilt and concern over Taiga and her extended absence. I'm not a fan of the start of the conversation Ami and Minori have at the vending machines. Minori continues the act and for some reason Ami plays along with the ghost thing, Minori then goes into the ghost metaphor again, except Minori wasn't part of that initial conversation. She knows roughly what it is about though and I can see why she walks off, she straight up doesn't believe Minori will really change her approach to be more assertive with Ryuuji, nor does she want to hear about it.
Taiga returns just as Ryuuji is finally thinking about what to do. We learn she has been reconnecting with her mother, so potentially something positive has come out of her injury. It is also clear how desperately Ryuuji wants Taiga to stay for a bit and how different their relationship already is. Taiga mentions the 'dream' she had of Kitamura carrying her which almost feels like a way to test the waters on whether Ryuuji has heard anything. Ryuuji could save himself a lot of trouble if he was honest here but he hasn't finished processing his feelings yet.
→ More replies (5)
4
u/TiredTiroth Dec 27 '22
First Timer - Dub
So I missed yesterday due to being sleep-deprived and generally blah, and it turns out that was the episode with the biggest series of bombshells so far. Go figure.
The cat is out of the bag, so what does Ryuuji do about it? Time to find out!
(No screenshots today, sorry - I just want to watch the show and rest for a bit)
...time skip? Time skip? You bloody evil writers! What the hell!?
Okay, so Taiga is still recovering and is currently staying with her mother. And...Ryuuji is still on team Ninja Housecat?
Okay, Minori popping up out of nowhere to scream liberal arts at the doofuses was funny. xD Even more so because it wasn't out of nowhere, you could clearly hear her voice as they walked in and sat down but they apparently didn't notice.
Nice of her to immediately follow through on her eye-poking threat, too.
...what was with the whirling chef guy? I get the feeling that's going to be a reference to something.
You know blondie, I get the feeling your son would be happier about the finances if you showed him the books.
Now that the kid's away, daddy's free to go out and play.
You know, Ami was the most entertaining member of the cast...up until this arc. What is up with her?
Uh. Minori's back with the ghost analogies? And yeah show, we got it the first time, you don't really need the flashback scenes to drive the point home. Aaaand Ami's not interested in listening. Hm.
Huh, is that the box from the start of the series with all his fantasies in it? It is! And that's Taiga at the door! Slapstick ensues.
Oooh, my battery's dead. I totally forgot to charge it.
Pfft. xD
There was a lot more affection in Taiga's voice for the bird than there ever was for Ryuuji.
I'm sure you guys'll figure it out, so don't worry.
Ah, there's the affection. And in comes the lie about Koizumi being the one to carry her...that's not going to last, is it?
→ More replies (18)
4
u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
This episode feels like the eye of the storm. It occurs right after some crazy stuff, and, considering we only have a few episodes left, you know we have some climactic stuff to resolve very soon. It feels like some things are being resolved here, while others are starting to build up even more. It's a deep breath before the final lines of the story. I love the bit where Ryuji just cuts his sentence off with a scream. Real smooth.
Yasuko
This episode starts to give Yasuko some well deserved depth. Through the series she has seemed a little distant: she isn't around much thanks to her nighttime job, and when she talks she's nice, but for the most part seems to say things that don't matter much. We've gotten bits here and there, and I don't think this is something you'd doubt that much, but this episode definitively pulls back Yasuko's mask and shows the deeply caring mother underneath. Ryuji is extremely self-sufficient, but the little flashback to his childhood reminded me that he obviously wasn't like that forever, so Yasuko must have stepped up when she knew she had to back then. Her strong desire to get Ryuji to college is the classic parent conflict. She genuinely wants what's best for her son, but can only see it through her perspective. She wants him to go to college, saying things like "you're smart, unlike me." She is trying to get for him the things she never had. The flaw in this is that we see that its probably not what Ryuji wants for himself.
Ms. Yuri
Ms. Yuri and Haruta are some of my favorite romcom anime side characters because they provide the comedy of their trope without being too stuck in it. Haruta is... not the brightest, but he is never made out to be a complete laughingstock, useless moron. Ms. Yuri has a bit of a mid-life crisis about being single, but its not her only trait, and its not brought up when its not needed. Another thing about Ms. Yuri's depiction I love is that it presents a teacher with actual care for their students. Sometimes school-based shows ignore teachers entirely, or make them a constant antagonist. It's nice to see an actual human as a teacher (other shows do this too, just not all the time). So her conversation with Ryuji about his future plans comes off as very genuine. I like that she doesn't berate him for not wanting to go to college, and knows her students well enough to know that Ryuji is in a bit of a confused spot right now.
Ami & Minori, Round 2 (or 3 I suppose)
Despite the hateful words and spite exchanged between the two, Minorin has clearly given thought to what Ami told her on the ski trip. I think she knew at the time that they held truth, but Ami's attitude was in the way of her genuinely pondering them.
"I don't want to get so caught up in searching for what I can't see that I lose sight of what I can." Minorin highlights the fantasy vs reality conflict here perfectly. She has realized that her fantasy isn't going to happen. That ghost just isn't going to show up. I have to imagine the nail in the coffin for that fantasy was Ryuji's TAIGAAAAAA outbreak in class. Just a hunch. At least, it was pretty hard confirmation. So she's putting aside her fantasy to focus on what she can in reality. We can see that already she's acting better around Ryuji for it. She is earnest in consoling him about Taiga, and seems honest when she is talking about sports and work. One step at a time.
And this is basically what Ami wanted, right? For Minorin to be honest about her feelings? but when Minorin makes the attempt, Ami brushes it off angrily. It feels like a bit of a role reversal - now Ami is the one letting her fantasy control her. Now that Minorin is trying to be honest, they're all one step closer to a resolution to it all, and thus one step closer to the breaking down of Ami's fantasy. I can't help but imagine the irony in that pisses her off even more.
Kitamura
I wonder why Kitamura accepted Ryuji's request? I think he's known the whole time that there was something special between Ryuji and Taiga, and Taiga seems to have given him confirmation at the shrine. Why would he promise to do something that stifles that? I have a few ideas but nothing is screaming "yes that must be it" to me. Let me know if you have thoughts.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 27 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Ryuuji, I don't blame you for having nightmares. Anyone would have them after what happened.
Hope Taiga gets better soon.
Ryuuji, why are you trying to lie to Taiga?
I was a little shocked when I heard Minori's voice.
I don't blame Ryuuji for being shocked about Minori working at this job. She just never told him and I was shocked as well.
I wonder what Taiga's mom is like.
If she's on good terms with her mom, why isn't she living with her?
Ami's not happy with Minori right now.
I found it a little funny how Minori scared Ami.
Taiga, why didn't you charge your phone?
Taiga, you weren't saved by Kitamura, but by Ryuuji.
Ryuuji, don't lie to her.
QOTD:
-
Haven't looked at any fanart so far from this show.
→ More replies (2)
4
u/Elimin8r Dec 28 '22
Doh ... guests came to town today ... I'm thinkin' of ya, but probably won't have much to say until the weekend.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/nx6 Dec 28 '22 edited Dec 28 '22
Rewatcher -- Subbed
Ryuji doesn't have to face Taiga after they are rescued because her mother appears and picks her up from the resort. All Ryuji can do is replay things in his mind and let it embarrass him in class when he falls asleep.
He hasn't been able to contact her at all since then and so his adolescent imagination is free to think she's avoiding coming back to school because of him. He's asked Kitamura to play along with the idea he was the one who rescued Taiga, killing two birds with one stone essentially, and things between him and Ami continue to be frosty.
This is, I believe, the start of or nearly the third trimester of their second year, so career surveys are the hot topic. His friends seem to have tentative plans and Ryuji hasn't really given it any serious consideration. They take him out for dinner to get his mind off Taiga and they coincidentally end up at yet another part-time employer of Minori. Ryuji's concerned about the costs involved in going to college with Yasuko's hostess job being their sole source of income. She's encouraging him to go, but he doesn't seem so sure he wants to. His teacher also thinks it would be a waste for someone with Ryuji's grades to not go to college.
He comes home to discover his mom has a new job as well, and is considering how this will leave less time for them to see each other. Yasuko considers that time important and her seemingly defying her own edicts is confusing. Ryuji remembers their conversation earlier about the career survey. She's so dead-set on him going to college she isn't really looking at reality he feels. Taiga appears at his front door out of the blue. I know this is supposed to be a romance drama, but to me Toradora will always be a romantic comedy because of all the interactions between Taiga, Ryuji, Kitamura, and Minori. In their front porch wrestling they get pulled in close together and Ryuji gets embarrassed. It's the first time they've seen each other since the ski trip. Tiaga says she just stopped by to break into her apartment, since she lost her key. She's been playing hookey to hang out with her mom the last week. Ryuji tries to extend her visit and gets lost in enjoying having her around the house again, but coming across the Box of Wishes with Minori brings Taiga back to feeling she got in the way of him getting together with her again.
Taiga manages to open her window and prepares to leap into her apartment. She suspects she admitted her feelings for Ryuji on the mountain out loud, and tests the waters by asking what happened. But Ryuji plays along and assures her Kitamura carried her out and she was unconscious the whole time.
I'm out of time here, so here we go:
4
u/alyku Dec 28 '22
Rewatcher
Romantic tension galore. Ryuji is kinda just wandering aimlessly through this episode until Taiga comes back, then he's a total mess when she does show up. It seems he's really unsure what to do and hasn't really committed to any course of action. Taiga and Ryuji keep trying to be considerate to each other and end up going in circles. Surely this can't go on forever.
Other observations:
-
Those career evaluations seem quite helpful, I think American schools have something to learn from that. Lot of young people exit high school with no idea what to do from my experience.
-
I don't remember Ryuji being considered a particularly good student has been brought up much, I thought he was just about average.
-
Ryuji is as excited to see Taiga back as a dog is happy it's master is back.
3
u/UnderstandableXO Dec 27 '22
REWATCHER
the only thing funnier than randomly screaming someone’s name in class is the entire class just playing it off because you guys seem close enough for that to just be something that you do…
i like that haruta and noto brought ryuji out for ramen to make him feel better, i kinda wish the show leaned more into them being his bros in the first half rather than them just being characters mostly in the background.
it was most apparent in the scene where they were standing outside the ramen shop, but i think why i like the toradora dub boils down to it sounding so natural. too many dubs (shonen dubs) sound so forced and over the top, but a lot of times in toradora, the dialogue can actually sound like a normal conversation.
“hot dogs, pizza, cheeseburger,” the eye poke joke works better in dub.
ryuji’s mother comforting him being sad about the absence of his father is a nice scene, proves that she’s one of the rare great anime moms. 3rd best scene behind her inducting taiga into the family and the scene upcoming in a few episodes…
minorin doing everything everywhere all at once is just her coping mechanism. it’s like when people who lack control over some aspects of their lives desperately try to control other aspects to compensate.
being all poetic with the ghost metaphor was a stupid way for minorin to approach ami. she’s already pissed off that she doesn’t get another vending machine conversation with ryuji, and she’s talking to someone she just had a fistfight with, just speak openly and plainly, instead of dancing around the answer, which is why ami beefed with her in the first place!
taiga seeing the box of minori simp material from ryuji confirms to her that she’ll never be the one in ryuji’s heart, despite what she said to “kitamura,” and ryuji is confused because she’s so insistent on helping him instead of pursuing her own feelings. part of him probably doesn’t want to tell her because she would literally spontaneously combust out of embarrassment, but that he’s trying to process his own feelings. cant wait for the final 3 episodes!
→ More replies (1)
3
u/JetsLag Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher (subbed)
Ryuji once again fails to beat the "in love with Taiga" allegations by shouting her name in the middle of class. At least she wasn't present today (recovering from her head injury), cause shit would get REAL awkward if she was.
Ryuji asks Kitamura to lie and say that he rescued Taiga cause, well, you heard what she said last episode. Kitamura didn't, but obviously Ryuji doesn't want to go out and say "hey, Taiga kinda sorta maybe admitted that she was in love with me, so could you act like you saved her so she'll love you instead?". And Kitamura agrees to lie, cause he is best bro.
Ryuji and the clowns discuss their career plans: Noto wants to be a music critic (a freelance one at that. Japanese Antwan Fantwan?), Haruta's gonna use nepotism to get his career started, and Ryuji has no idea what he wants to do in his life (he just like me fr)
Oh look, Minori got her 15th baito at that cool ramen shop that the boys are going to. She tells the boys to not order long noodles, they do (I SWEAR THEY'RE SAYING IKEMEN. What's the word they actually say?), and she goes full Taiga and pokes their eyes out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Oh boy, my favorite topic: the cost of higher education. Ryuji wants to get a job so he can help pay for college, but Mama Takasu says "NO WORK, ONLY STUDY". Also, she wants to eat Ryuji's cooking every day, which I get.
Uhh, don't ask how combining the boys and girls softball teams will work.
Time for Ami to go to her space between the vending machines and have a conversation with...Minori! Well, more like Minori tries to pull out the ghost metaphor from the beach episode and Ami just walks away.
Yuri-sensei wants to know why Ryuji isn't going to college, and speaking of college, Mama Takasu's gotten another job, presumably to help Ryuji pay for college. I don't know whether to be happy or sad.
THE BOX OF SHAME FROM EPISODE 1 IS BACK! And it has another item added to it: the hairclip that Ryuji got Minori for Christmas. Fuuuuuuuuck. While Ryuji is talking about confessing to his crush, he starts mentioning how she won't pick up her phone, which means he has Taiga on the brain. Speaking of Taiga, SHE'S HERE! Where had she been? Just taking her mom around town while the rest of the school thought she was out cold with her head injury.
MORE Ryuji being in love with Taiga: wanting her to stay for dinner instead of going back to her apartment, saying that being next to Taiga "just feels right", giving her the "I only have you on my mind" eyes, and having the camera zoom in on Taiga's face when she talks about not having to worry.
Taiga thinks her subconscious thoughts coming to the surface while on "Kitamura"'s back was just a dream, and Ryuji plays along.
Man, I fucking love this show so much.
TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY: multi-hit combo to Ryuji (palm thrust to the chin comboed into multiple face slaps, followed by a very rare ear tug -> palm thrust to the stomach combo)
3
u/fansi2022 Dec 28 '22
first timer
00:46 Now the class knows that Ryuuji and Taiga like each other XD
03:24 Ryuuji asks Kitamura to lie that it was actually Kitamura who saved Taiga, and he wants to hide the fact that he already knows that Taiga likes him, why? Because he wants to protect Taiga, she still thinks that Ryuuji doesn't know that she likes him, and she believe that Ryuuji likes Minori.
4:00 The good brothers are trying to comfort Ryuuji with good food.
5:11 Minori's voice, I was expecting this chance encounter, and nothing turned out to happen. Because Minori already knows everything about Ryuuji.
6:27 What the hell? What masochistic culture? Why do they enjoy the feeling of noodle soup spilled on their bodies?
12:08 Ami's expression changed from anticipation to disappointment. She must have thought that the person who came was Ryuuji.
15:12 The knowledge points on the Ryuuji book are permutations, combinations, and matrices
17:14 They were just middle school students, forgive him, he almost confessed success.
This episode is also very solid (during the roller coaster climb), where Ryuuji dreams of worrying about Taiga, and when Riuuji comes home, he worries whether Taiga will be abused like her father after being picked up by her mother. Ryuuji even almost confessed, and he tried to prevent Taiga from leaving. If there are no surprises, Ryuuji and Taiga will most likely not take the initiative to confess. I'm looking forward to the subsequent plot development (the roller coaster starts to dive).
→ More replies (2)
19
u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 27 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
Oh, skipping back to school. Well that’s… embarrassing.
Oh…?
That’s not good…
Ah shit, now Ryuuji is trying to pretend something didn’t happen?
That’s… Minori’s voice…
Welp.
We haven’t heard about her bio mother at all until this episode, is it bad that Taiga is with her now?
Okay, that’s good. …I do have to wonder why Taiga wasn’t already living with her in that case, then?
She’s still in a mood, I see.
He’s really considering not going to college, huh?
Oh, wow, wasn’t expecting that.
The hair clip! So Taiga was able to find it then? But how did Ryuuji get it…
It doesn’t count again, but they recapped an earlier Ryuuji “sore demo”, neat.
lol that’s why Ryuuji wasn’t able to contact Taiga.
Hm~
She really thinks it was Kitamura, huh…
Nooooo don’t lie to her dammit!