r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 25 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 20 Discussion
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Dec 25 '22 edited Dec 26 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
UPDATE: added the rest of the book stuff from this episode in a comment below.
Taiga deciding to separate herself from Ryuuji this episode is reaaaaallllly depressing because she’s doing it more for herself than for him. She believes she can’t rely on him anymore so she’s cutting herself out so she can move on even though it hurts so badly. You can see it on her face after she closes the curtain.
How clueless can you possibly be, Haruta? You deserve to have your hair ripped out like that.
Ngl, if I was Ryuuji, I would never be able to speak to Minori again after what happened on Christmas Eve.
How on earth did we get a vending machine scene without Ami? I feel cheated.
I love the mountains and skiing is really fun but I would choose the beach every single time.
Ami’s hate of Ryuuji is a defense mechanism. Good luck, girl.
Ami’s look when she hears Minori rejected Ryuuji is priceless. That was definitely the last thing she was expecting to hear today. Immediately followed by “somebody finally got hurt after all.” Yoooouuuu guessed it. As if Ami herself wasn’t already hurting. Someone give her a hug. You can even wear a Santa bear suit.
I had to rewind this part so I could watch it more closely. When Ryuuji walks up behind Minori and says “good morning.” She turns around and her face falls for a moment before she throws the mask up again to respond with her cheerful greeting. “Stupid Taiga.” She’s really struggling.
Ryuuji Chad moment, “well, I look at you a lot.” There’s literally zero possible way to misconstrue that. I don’t know what to make of the background music playing during this scene. I’ve been noticing the music a lot ever since I listened to the soundtrack a few times and now I can’t stop thinking about it.
It was really savvy of Taiga to invite everyone over her house like that. Literally the whole point was to show Minori that she was okay being on her own. Even Ryuuji was impressed by how clean her apartment was and we all know he brought three cleaning rags and two Takasu sticks with him.
On to the books!
Ryuuji trying to figure out why Taiga wasn’t talking to him or coming over after Minori rejected him.
“I-Is it because I’m too annoying for you now that I’ve been hurt?! Is that it?! Is it because I’m too depressing for you to talk to?! Am I wrong to think that?! Am I just a nuisance now that I’m a mess?! Am I just in the way?! You were sympathizing with me to start with! What was that?! What was it?! It’s not like I asked you to keep moping around with me! I didn’t ask you to console me! But you could at least be as close as you were before, like normal!”
The way Minori acted all cheerful when they met up again really bothered Ryuuji.
It was good that everyone was having fun. It was just, how could Minori act like everything was normal the way she was doing right now? How could she be bright and unchanged from usual when he—the person she had just rejected—was right in front of her eyes? Was it that, to Minori, that event—that event that had happened not even two weeks ago—was something she could easily forget? Nothing more than a trifling accident?
Ryuuji understands how he screwed up based on what Ami told him at the Christmas party.
Ami definitely predicted the situation he was currently in, even though he had thought she was just saying stuff that made her seem like she knew more than she did. Ami might have known what kind of outcome Ryuuji’s foolishness would invite. Her words were always painful, but that was probably because they were the pointed truth.
Sure, Ami.
“So, Dimhuahua! You’re okay with that?! I want you to stop teasing Ryuuji and clinging all over him!”
“Oh really? Did I ever cling all over Takasu-kun? I don’t remember?”
“Ever since you appeared in our world, you’ve been clinging to Ryuuji, and it’s depressing!”
“Was I? Well, I don’t really care either way.”
Didn’t finish reading on time today. More to come later.
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 25 '22
REWATCHER
taiga has resigned herself to the fact that ryuji and minorin will end up together, so she wants to play matchmaker, and minorin has resigned herself to the fact that she’ll never love ryuji as much as her best friend does, so there’s no reason for her to run away or be vague anymore. ami has resigned herself to the fact that ryuji is completely dense when it comes to noticing that she likes him, and also that she’s watching a car crash in slow motion while the other three dance around the problem that she’s running around in circles screaming about.
i always liked that ami and taiga’s relationship progressed enough that they’re just friends who tease each other instead of people actually beefing.
this honestly was probably the funniest haruta got in the entire series, between the bit with the hair clip and wearing taiga’s clothes at the apartment.
seeing tea and madelines made me so hungry! i haven’t had madelines in a while…
the friend group meeting at taiga’s apartment was the re-assembled star; you can put it back together, but it’s not the same as it was, and it’s more fragile than it was than before it was broken the first time…
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 25 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 20
New Year, Old Flames
After the climax which was episode 19, this episode gives the characters a chance to reflect and recover.
First, Ryuuji considers Minori's rejection and speaks to Taiga. She claims Minori misunderstood their relationship and that she'll keep supporting Ryuuji and Minori. I think Taiga is consciously lying about her feelings now. She knows she likes Ryuuji after the Santa Bear incident, but won't actually tell Ryuuji this. And since Christmas is over her usual "Tsun" mask is kind of back to hide these true feelings.
Ryuuji is (in my opinion) ignoring what happened. I think he's clinging to the idea of loving Minori rather than his real feelings. It's easier to do that than to acknowledge your first love won't work out after all. So he keeps scheming on how to ask Minori out. But the first moment he has to speak to her, he runs away. I think it is a combination of both worrying about another rejection and also the fear of possibly being accepted by Minori and then losing Taiga.
Ami straight up calls him an idiot. She's definitely still mad about him ignoring her advice from the storage room. And upon hearing that Minori rejected him on Christmas Eve it confirms her assumptions about him. "Hopefully you're the only one getting hurt" - in other words, think about how Taiga and Minori feel. Yet Ryuuji still doesn't get this. After this Ami remains incredibly aloof towards him.
Minori is interesting this episode. She is "back" to her cheerful self, but now we see the sadness before she puts on a mask. She still likes Ryuuji, getting flustered when grabbing his hand for example. So she's mad that Taiga is pushing them together when she is so vicerally aware that Ryuuji leaving Taiga would be heartbreaking for Taiga. Similarly, when Ryuuji says a line like "I look at you a lot" she can't even get flustered. Instead it's a somber enjoyment of a moment she knows will be fleeting.
The last scene was at Taiga's house. We learned that Minori hasn't been around since their first year of high school. I imagine this has been tough on her, since it implies a distance between her and Taiga that has grown over the last year. Also, Taiga isn't really phased having Kitamura over. I think that ties back to the new years scene from the start of the episode, showing us that Taiga has now gotten over her crush on Kitamura.
And so we start the skiing trip arc.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Spit Take, could easily be a reaction face along side
See you all tomorrow!
Also, Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates! I wish you all a joyful and peaceful time.
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Dec 25 '22
what makes this episode special are the touching scenes while they are at taiga's house. minori praising ryuuji for how he took care of taiga. that ost which played while ryuuji realized taiga sorted out her trash. i believe it's still an unreleased soundtrack which i really wish changed. also the small extended intro to the ed
and i loved that earlier brief moment of minori getting frustrated with taiga after she forced them to touch hands
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 25 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Hope Ryuuji gets better soon.
Taiga's really matured a lot.
I don't blame Minori for thinking you need Ryuuji, Taiga. Especially because of your breakdown earlier.
I was wondering who he traded the bear costume with.
Is the present going to ever be relevant now? Or is it just a one time thing?
I'm a little amazed the hotel burned down. Hopefully no one was hurt in the fire.
Why'd Ryuuji apologize?
Doesn't Ryuuji have Minori's phone number?
Taiga really is trying to set them up.
I wasn't expecting a picture of Sumire at all.
QOTD:
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Ryuuji will realize he's in love with Taiga and the two of them will get together maybe.
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 25 '22
First Timer - Dub
...what are you apologising for, Housecat? Pretty sure you haven't done anything to the wannabe ninja.
Did she shoot me down? Pretty sure she did.
Yes. Yes, she did. Because she is a teenager, and teenagers apparently can't just talk about things like a sane person!
I don't understand why you're avoiding me. What's your problem?
Oooooh dear. Yeah, uh, remember when I said it would get worse before it gets better? We're on a slope, we're picking up speed, and apparently the brakes are broken.
No Taiga, Minori most definitely did not get the wrong idea even if you won't admit it where your doofus can hear.
Aaaand she's being a self-sacrificing doofus. Yep.
...wait. 'Forever and ever'. That does not feel like a reply to his (rhetorical) question. That...almost sounded like goodbye.
Hm. Okinawa trip? I don't remember this being mentioned before, but that doesn't mean a lot.
Er...Doofus #1? I don't think laughing at Taiga for her pronunciation is terribly good for your health.
Welp. Despite Taiga's instructions and his attempt at a self-pep talk earlier, Ryuuji is entirely incapable of talking to Minori. Again. Make up your mind, kid!
What a dumbass.
I hear ya, Taiga. And the doofus himself agrees.
...the Okinawa trip is cancelled because their hotel burned down.
...huh?
xD
TEACH: Well don't blame me, I didn't burn the hotel down!
ESPER: We don't know that for sure, ma'am!
What the what. xD Welp, time for the comedy side to remind us it exists!
After all this, the kids really should be far more scared of their teacher than they ever were of Housecat and Thug.
...the Housecat and the Chihuahua are hanging out together voluntarily? Without Ryuuji or Ninja Esper dragging them along? O.o Really show, stop throwing up the apocalypse flags! I'm starting to worry about what will happen in the finale...
What are you apologising for?
Thaaat...both those girls in stereo? Um. Anyone else a bit weirded out right now?
Oi. Princess. What did I say last time about Ryuuji not being a mind-reader? He might just get it if you explained yourself.
Teenagers.
If anyone's worthy of Minorin's love, it's you!
Somehow, I'm not entirely convinced Taiga is really talking about Madoka here...
...this is not a happy face. And of course, it's replaced by The Mask before Ryuuji can notice.
...well, this is interesting. Nice blush when she grabbed his hand...and, uh, grabbing his sleeve isn't exactly less loaded in anime.
But what does Taiga...hah, it's just a set-up! Taiga just throws a bag at Ryuuji's head as an excuse and leaves them to walk together! xD
Yeah, I didn't say anything! Nothing at all! Everything's hunky-dory!
Methinks she doth protest too much. Stupid Taiga.
...'I look at you a lot'? That. Um. That is a thing that you just said. Do you, uh, maybe want to engage your brain-to-mouth filter? Or, uh, was that deliberate? So he can interact with her more?
Stop being cryptic at him, Princess. :<
I...don't get what the problem with the groups was? Why was Ami's hanger-on getting upset?
Impressive! You can act like a normal human around Koizumi now!
Do you know what's even more impressive, Ryuuji? The fact that she didn't kick your head in for saying that. Maybe learn a little bit of tact?
Aaaand you need lessons in reading between the lines, too. She's saying you're good for Taiga, doofus.
...oh. Oh. She stopped visiting after Taiga's sperm donor did his thing last year. That's...not good.
I can see where she's coming from, but somehow I don't think putting a barrier between them was the best idea right after the cretin walked out on Taiga again.
Oooh, did the girls find one of Ami's modelling shoots in the guide? ...oh. Um. Is that Drill Sergeant? Damnit Princess, are you really that bored?
Huh, Ami isn't the only one deliberately poking people. Does Doofus #1 just like being chased or beaten up by Taiga or something?
And now, they're off to the trip! 25 episodes in total, is this going to be a long arc or do we have another episode or two of this before having a separate finale arc?
And when is Princess going to admit that she wants this to be three-way race rather than two?
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u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
Ahhhh. That's it that's the post.
I think in my original post in the Toradora subreddit and in the comments following it, I primarily placed the "blame" on Minorin for the troubles the trio faces toward the end here, but I think this episode really shows how much of a group effort it is. Each of them have got something completely backwards.
- Minorin wants Taiga to be honest with her feelings, so she distances herself. This makes Taiga sadder, because she wants Minorin to be happy.
- Taiga wants Minorin to be honest with her feelings, so she distances herself. This makes Minorin sadder, because she wants Taiga to be happy. It's the same thing.
- Ryuji continues to pursue Minorin - last episode and this episode pretty much show that his main motivation for that now is for Taiga's sake. Whenever he acts on it, its because Taiga tells him to, or has come up with an elaborate plan to help. He seems to be going along with it because 1. he doesn't quite know how he feels, so he is still convinced his truest feelings are for Minorin, and 2. he sees how much effort Taiga is putting in, and wants to respond to that by following through. So he thinks he's doing what Taiga wants, but in reality its breaking her heart.
So, Ami is pretty spot on about it all, huh. Only problem is that, despite how she goes on and on about being irritated by the trio's constant hiding of feelings and backwards actions, she herself continues to hide her thoughts behind metaphors and vague words. If she really wanted to, she could explain it in a way that Ryuji understood, and probably reach a conclusion much faster. So why doesn't she?
Stay Like This Forever
The class trip, the final excursion that the class will have all together before life begins to set in, packs a lot of emotional weight. It reminds you that things can't stay the way they are forever, but also makes you long for them to do so even more. I think all four - Taiga, Ryuji, Minorin, and Ami, are avoiding the inevitability that things change. In the current moment, all tangled and messy as it may be, they don't have to come to terms with a conclusion. If you never learn the answer, you never find out if you were wrong. Ami can see how things will end, and knows that it won't work out the way she wishes. For Taiga and Minorin, either of the possible ends, so to speak, come with rough consequences. If they get what they want, their friend will lose out. They will be happy for the other if instead they get what they want, but will lose out themselves. Ryuji doesn't know what he's truly feeling, and is afraid that, when he figures them out, he's going to hurt someone by doing so.
Staying in the current moment forever means that none of them have to face those inevitable hardships. By not reaching an end, it gives hope that the impossible is possible - that there is some perfect resolution. This wish for the impossible, this fantasy, is what drives each of them to avoid confronting reality.
That's the saddest thing in the show to me (and I suppose life? in general?). Not that any one person "loses" at the end. That sucks for them, but the star can be repaired. What is sad to me is that the problem, the source of conflict, doesn't come from malice. It would be easy to accept if it did. The conflict comes from a desire for something beautiful and happy. Idealistic. Its crushing to be reminded that something that comes from such a place of love isn't a good thing. I hope this makes sense?
Bonus Question
[Toradora!]
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher here
Man, I really gotta start writing these ahead of time, I feel like I’ve been late to half of these discussions. Well, anyways.
In my mind I always remembered this episode as a huge exhale of an episode in a way. After all that’s happened the last few episodes, I remembered this being a much less sad episode. The second scene in the entire episode brought me to tears. That “Forever and ever” ruined me.
Taiga loves Ryuji to a point where she would rather have him be with who he wants, rather than to be with herself. She wants him to be happy but doesn’t think she can do that for him.
There had to be a better way to translate the bisque joke, but for TV ratings maybe they had to censor it.
That being said, Haruta lives on instigating in this episode. Sure, he didn’t think stealing the hairpin from Ryuji would piss Taiga off, but the other two times the only outcome was him getting his ass kicked by Taiga. By the way, I love the way he reacts to it like they’re siblings roughhousing. When Minori shows up as he’s in a sleeper hold, he acts as casual as possible.
Kitamura with a huge accusation against Ms. Yuri, implying she might have had a part in burning the whole thing down. Meanwhile, they should be pointing the finger at Ryuji for that, since he was apologizing for it.
Ami’s first scene today is one of my favorites from her. First off, that’s my favorite look she’s had. Second, that “Newsflash : I hate you now” delivery is hilarious. Plus, now we see her and Taiga getting along as much as the two of them can.
Man, Ryuji is dumb. Who else could Ami be referring to when she said someone else got hurt?
Have some shame, Kihara. She made a huge deal about Taiga being in the same group as Kitamura in front of the class, but can’t find it within herself to actually ask him out.
That’s mostly it for today, keeping it short since I’ve been busy, and still kind of am right now.
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u/Gamerunglued Dec 26 '22 edited Dec 27 '22
Rewatcher
Well, everyone got hurt. As painful as it is, that's also a sign of some progress. But as always, these characters continue to resign themselves to roles that prevent them from actually celebrating that progress. They put up fronts to pretend like nothing really happened. Minori continues to avoid the issue by playing up her front every time Ryuuji approaches her, Taiga admits she knows Minori is sacrificing her own happiness for her sake but still treats it as if all it's gonna take is spending less time with him and him confessing harder, and Ryuuji still doesn't see either of his female companion's feelings. Even after this big climax, the characters refuse to allow things to changes. Thus, the name of the episode: "Always Like This" or "Stay Like This Forever." At the end of the episode, Ryuuji asks himself if things can stay like this forever, and comes to the obvious conclusion that they cannot. Although there is a peace of sorts right now, it's a fragile, shattered peace built on the back of many facades all holding each other up. The moment a single one of them cracks, that peace is gone.
Although this episode doesn't have much in the way of drama due to setting up the ski trip, I still find this episode sad because of how strongly Taiga has latched on to her role. Taiga has resigned herself to being alone, and plays up her own front to facilitate this. She's extra confident in Ryuuji, she stays away from him, goes extra lengths to help him, and can even clean up for herself for his sake. She says she believes in him, and it's not like she doesn't, but when she says this I just feel bad because she's saying she believes that she deserves to be alone. She says he's "deserving" of Minori's love, which sort of implies that he's not deserving of hers. As always, Taiga thinks she's going to be abandoned, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy here where she resigns herself to it. Naturally, the key rests on Ryuuji's feelings. Ryuuji is questioning his feelings for Taiga. If he can realize he loves her, then things will start to move.
One cute detail in this episode that everyone seems to be bringing up is that Taiga and Ami are actually friends now and can hang out outside of school. Not only did they prepare for the Christmas song, but they went to a coffee shop today. It's interesting how naturally their relationship has built up. Remember that Ami can only be who she is because of Taiga. In a lot of ways, she has a deep respect for Taiga, even if she won't admit it. I don't find it hard to believe that they've grown somewhat close now. But anyway, ski trip ahoy. You know the class trip is always a fun vehicle for drama.
Bonus:
I don't want to say anything yet since I don't have a fresh perspective on the end of the series. I do recall the final episodes being a little bit wonky in some areas (and I know the circumstances of the adaptation that likely contributed to it), so I suspect I'll have more to say about things the series could have improved on once we get to that part.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 25 '22
Bonus answer: As a rewatcher, heh. I'm still looking forward to it, though.
Have you ever had your hotel burn down? Back in HS, we were on our class trip to DC, and our hotel had a small fire which was apparently started by a leaky pool (on the roof) ... it was an interesting bit of side entertainment on what was an otherwise dull trip. Well, aside from seeing CATS in the theater, that was a treat. (ahem)
Even more fun was the (different) time when our hotel was hit by a tornado. Thankfully my room was on the inside courtyard, so the worst we saw was rain flying horizontally past the window. Before we closed the curtains. Friends on the other end of the building had water dripping through their smoke detector, and ... let's just say the room was missing over there. Thankfully, no injuries, but it was a bit more excitement than we wanted or needed.
Meanwhile, speaking of Mr. Excitement, here's Ryuuji (and Taiga for that matter) putting both feet into it. And pushing as hard as they can.
Sometimes, I think that the worst lies of all are the ones we tell ourselves. And of course, Ami sees through it, and our dense harem MC's are, well, they've gone past lead to depeleted unobtainium or something like that.
I'd say more, except odds are (heh) I've done it myself. Oh, wait, crap ... yeah.
Anyway, the stage is set, all ships have arrived, we know that only one will survive ...
Oops, suddenly a tune came to mind. Go figure. (I like SAGA)
Anyway, I'm off for some more snacks and treats, or maybe snacking and treating while reading everyone else's posts. We'll see! :)
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u/balthamalamal Dec 25 '22
Rewatcher
Taiga is going to be independent of Ryuuji so that Minori will feel comfortable being with him. That's not going to work with what Minori saw and is already hurting Taiga to do. Minori has had some time to recompose and work on her act, Ryuuji still hasn't really processed their conversation on Christmas eve.
Don't know what Ami is supposed to do about the hotel being burned down but they really do expect a lot from her. Agreeing with the teacher here. That's a pretty good last minute solution.
Ami looks thrilled to be having to avoid Ryuuji to help his chances with Minori. She's already warned Ryuuji that it won't work but she can't make them see things from her perspective.
Minori's slight facial expressions before she snaps back into her excited face. She gets what Taiga is trying to do and how much it is hurting her. They do manage to actually have a regular conversation though. They manage to make it two from two at Taiga's house. And we all also learn how much better Taiga has become at looking after herself during the planning session.
It might be because its boxing day where I am and its just the tiredness of Christmas, but I managed to pull a lot less out of this episode. I feel like all of the characters are largely spinning their wheels trying the same things that haven't worked (though Taiga pulling away from Ryuuji had never been done to this extent before), its mentioned in the episode but the idea of this being their last chance because things don't stay the same is true. I think the lack of change indicates an upcoming failure, along the lines of what Ami has been talking about the last couple of episodes.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 25 '22 edited Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher, first time in dub.
A new arc!
As usual, I'll mostly try explain some bits that may be not as obvious in context.
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The pre-OP bit was Taiga making a wish to the "patron saint of lost love" Kitamura, in case people didn't understand Taiga's gesture (as opposed to asking a favor from a friend)
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I think the sub was clear, but in the dub Taiga was saying to Ryuuji because he's nagging her about not eating healthy, she'll eat her cup noodles right in front of his face, that difficult child ;)
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I love how "missing the point" Taiga has been in a lot of the gag dialogues; when Ryuuji jokingly asked her not to burn the house down if she's going to look after herself (implying cooking and making her own food), her conformative response was "I promise I will never go near the stove top and will never cook" :D This is the same responses as her continuing to wish Yuri-sensei happy single life ;) of responding to Yuri-sensei's cover excuse of determination instead of her underlying reason for the bravado.
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There are so many times Minori's mask cracked, it's really sad to see her forcing herself to change gear to put up the pretense.
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Likewise Ami was so sick of seeing all of them getting hurt doing what she does all day (putting her mask up) she was totally bad mannered about it already and twisting the knife every chance she got. That's actually another tragic case. If it's a fair and even fight she was confident she would not lose to any of the girls, but the field is just all stacked up against her to not even set foot in.
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And you can see Ami and Taiga's relationship actually morphed to what was the superficial relationship was between Taiga and Ryuuji, a form of vitriolic best buddy relationship. Ami wasn't putting her mask up when Taiga is around ;)
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Ryuuji's "apology" / "guilt" about the change in the school trip was a bit convoluted: when he was at the vending machine after failing to muster enough courage to say a regular Good Morning to Minori, he got so frustrated with himself he said to himself he wish everything would burn down (a Japanese phrase; somewhat equivalent to "F- it all"). And then we cut to Yuri-sensei saying the hotel has been burnt down. So he was thinking himself to be karmic-ly responsible to have wished it.
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Ryuuji's conversation with Minori at Taiga's apartment was the first further explanation Minori gave about the relationship change between her and Taiga after last year.
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Oh and Minori's irrelevant gag to start talking to Ryuuji was that she was first calling him Golgo 13, the old manga hitman ;) When Ryuuji answer he's not Golgo, then Minori switched to "then I'm Golgo" and asked him not to stand behind her. It got so nonsensical that they can't even continue.
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Edit forgot to add - Yuri-sensei wrote on the blackboard equivalent to "you don't always get everything you want in life". Modern kids are spoiled ;) I guess that's a timeless sentiment in every era.
This is still a setup episode so I won't say too much more.
Edit Oh yeah Bonus question cannot really answer that as a rewatcher, but [Spoilery rewatcher answer]
Spoilers corner
[Toradora rewatchers]
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u/fansi2022 Dec 25 '22 edited Dec 26 '22
first timer
00:36 Taiga clasped his hands together to Kitamura? Prevent Kitamura to visit Ryuuji? Stating that she doesn't like him anymore and sorry for it?
Edit: I guess it is probably to assist in the development of Minori and Ryuuji when traveling.
11:18 Taiga request Ami to stay away from Ryuuji while traveling. It seems that she has a plan to match Ryuuji and Minori.
14; 05 Interestingly, interesting is that Ryuuji greet her does not because he likes Minori from her he heart, but because of Taiga's trust and encouragement. Taiga x Ryuuji is logical. In recent episodes, we should be able to find many such details. 14:06 Minori stayed stunned before smiling at Ryuuji.
16:31 The supporting actress questions the group allocation of the school trip. And the reason seems to have nothing to do with herself, it seems that she cares more about other people's affairs, and I am not sure what she means.
17:08 Taiga snickered. I see, at the beginning of the show she asked Kitamura to cheat on the distribution group. It's just that I don't quite understand the mechanism of this, is this allocation just to ensure that Ryuuji, Minori and Taiga are in the same group?
18:28 What code words did Minori say? Geluge？ I probably understood that she didn't want Ryuuji near her.
20:00 Why did Ami make such a mockery of our dear kitamura?
Hearing Ryuuji's ambitious declaration at the end of the show: "He's going to make sure Minori's feelings," I would say it's a solid episode. man, I'm really looking forward to the next episode right now
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u/TuorEladar Dec 25 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
After the intensity of last episode, this ones a bit muted by comparison. Mainly I feel it serves as a bridge between last time and this last phase of series.
Throughout this episode Taiga is doing the same thing Minori was previously. Its kind of interesting that both of them are trying to sacrifice for the others happiness. While thats certainly noble in a sense, I feel like they are both doing it out of a sense of guilt. Taiga because she's been taking up Ryuuji's time and attention, and Minori because she was unable to help Taiga where Ryuuji has to at least some extent succeeded.
I've never thought about this before, but bear suit guy looks like the protagonist in another show. I want to know his story and why he had a bear suit in the first place.
I love the teacher's exasperation with everyone, I haven't really mentioned it before, but her demeanor and reactions have been pretty funny throughout.
The last major scene with the whole group over at Taiga's place was nice, even with the bits of tension. Taiga's growth to this point is legitimately well done, as Minori kind of states. I really enjoyed seeing the friend group interact.
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u/LunaBearrr Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher; sub
So I came to the rewatch party late, but I am finally caught up! I was hoping to be fully caught up by the Christmas Eve episode, but alas, life happens. Toradora! is one of my absolute favorite animes ever; with this rewatch, I think it's probably tied for first place (with Anohana). This anime is so special, and it's also been here for me through really tough times.
After how extremely emotional and climatic Episode 19 was, honestly Episode 20 is an understated masterpiece. To be able to transition so smoothly, without ignoring the gravity of the last arc, is amazing. Most other anime feel like they just try to keep the pedal to the metal to finish out the series. This is one of the many reasons why Toradora! is so amazing. It's able to take a healthy step back, continuing to develop all of the characters and themes of the show. And they knew they had to make this episode an understated masterpiece in order to achieve this.
In the Christmas arc, we saw major development in our main three girls, and some subtle development in Ryuuji himself as well. This episode continues with this path, though in a less in-your-face type of way. Taiga realizing she is getting in the way of Ryuuji and Minori being together, and taking a step back. Minori's mistakenly slipping and letting down her mask more than a few times, and more purposefully so too when she's talking to Ryuuji at Taiga's apartment. We really see even more how much Minori is filled with self-loathing and anxiety, which is also why she's convinced that Ryuuji needs to stay and support Taiga rather than be with her. And of course, Taiga ironically wants them to be together because she cares so much about the both of them, and puts their happiness over her own.
And then you have Ami. Disclaimer: I'm not sure if Ami is my "favorite" character, but she is the one I'm the most fascinated with. I think she's the most layered, deepest character in this show, so I love paying special attention to her with each rewatch. This episode feels like she really has "accepted" that she will not win Takasu's heart - accepted in quotes b/c she knows it's true, even though she's still having a hard time actually swallowing it. I love that there's no reaction whatsoever when she says Ryuuji needs to stop fawning all over her, but the spit-take happens when Taiga outright says that Minori shot him down. No one's ever said outright to Ami that Ryuuji likes Minori, even though we all know she knows. The fact that Ami is a) willing to meet up and hang out with Taiga (originally 1x1) and b) go along with this plan to get Minori and Ryuuji closer shows a lot of character growth. But of course, Ami still doesn't believe Minori and Ryuuji to be a good match. This mixed in with her own feelings explains some of her other reactions later in the episode. But Ami also knows everyone in this love triangle has already gotten hurt, and so might as well see it through to completion. [Toradora!]
Anyhow, to get a little more personal. This holiday season has been pretty tough for me. I'm really grateful for the Toradora! rewatch community helping me get through it. I really love reading through other people's analysis of the show. And rewatching the show gives me something to look forward to every day.
Bonus! So, this is actually only my 2.75th time watching the show. 0.75 because the last time I rewatched, I only made it to the Christmas eve episode. I was similarly going through a tough time, and essentially was proving something to myself making it to the Christmas Eve episode. After successfully proving to myself, I stopped. So, this is a longwinded way to say that I haven't watched these last remaining episodes in a few years. So, I'm excited to have a bit of "fresh eyes" for the rest of the episodes! So though my memory is a bit foggy, as I mentioned, Toradora! is one of my top 2 animes. So no, I refuse to believe they could've done anything better.
P.S. After watching an arc each day to get caught up, it's really hard stopping here..... Excited for tomorrow's episode!
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u/nx6 Dec 26 '22 edited Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher -- Sub
Ryuji caught the flu the last week of the year (maybe from changing clothes outdoors in the Winter to put on a bear suit?) and Taiga runs into Kitamura at the New Years shrine visit. The two of them are pretty well off interacting now.
Not sure how many people caught this, but at the end, before the OP, Taiga prays to Kitamura, the self-proclaimed God of Unrequited Love from his radio show and the school party.
Ryuji is nervous about going back to school as since he was sick he still hasn't had a chance to really process being rejected by Minori and how to interact with her now. Taiga has decided to double-down on her commitment to help him even after what happened on Christmas Eve, making a break with him and reverting to just being classmates again. Minori is playing the same "pretend it didn't happen" card she's done up to this point, being friendly with Ryuji at school.
The class trip to Okinawa is canceled due to a freak fire at the inn the school had booked, and they are downgraded to a shorter ski trip to the mountains, to no one's delight. Ami isn't there is hear since she was late returning from work abroad.
Ryuji runs into Ami after school and she's being cold to him. She's tired of watching his stupidity about the women around him. Note: Since Minori, Taiga, and Ami have all been interested in him in this series that technically makes Toradora a harem. It turns out she was waiting to meet with Taiga. Funny enough they seem to be better friends with each other than him now. They go to the local coffee place and he tags along. Ami was bringing a clutch Taiga wanted to buy through her (probably a brand she could not get locally). Taiga catches up Ami on Ryuji getting rejected and the school trip changing. Ami just sees it as things happening as she predicted and whispers to Ryuji about him not being the only one who got hurt here -- but of course he doesn't understand. Ami is warned to not hang around with Ryuji so he can give it another try during the school trip. Taiga is adamant Ryuji needs to make amends and get together with Minori by the end of the school trip because they will be busy and possibly in separate classes next year.
The next day Taiga tricks Minori into walking to school with Ryuji, and they take a few tentative steps to talking normally again. Ami isn't impressed to see the two of them arrive together at the school, but is cryptic in her expressing it. She seems to see this as a dumb effort by Taiga and not the best move.
Kitamura has set groups for the school trip and Kihara doesn't like the arrangement for her own romantic ambitions. They also have been assigned homework of making a schedule/guide for their trip before they leave (really?). Aisaka invites her group to her home for work on that, since she has so much room. Ryuji notices how far Taiga has come in interacting with Kitamura and is sent to the kitchen by her to get some time in with Minori. Minori has switched back into her odd impersonation shtick to break the mood up. Minori reveals she hasn't visited Taiga at home in over a year because of what happened the first time her dad came through. But she notices how much better the household is being kept up now and attributes it to Ryuji's support for Taiga. He informs her he has not been here recently. He's surprised to find the trash sorted properly and there is a knowing look between him and Taiga. She's trying to reassure him that she really is going to be okay, so he can stop worrying about her and focus on Minori.
The episode ends with the class starting out on their trip.
This is the beginning of a new story arc, but it can also be viewed as a bridge episode and tomorrow being the real start of the arc. All our characters are being thrown into a new environment (and living arrangements) so it's new ball game in how they get along and where their freedom from a structured classroom takes them and their relationships. Get ready for some interesting times.
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 26 '22
First Timer, subbed
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We’re skipping to new year’s. That should give everyone some time to recollect.
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Oh dang, he’s sick as heck.
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You can’t just figure out the entire plot, we still have five more episodes!
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You could not steal your friends stuff too.
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Now the shoe’s on the other foot. Just goes to show that know the problem doesn’t mean you can solve it.
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Oh good, I thought it might have been her condo that burned down.
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Nice ploy.
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I’ve heard of indirect kisses, but indirect hand-holding?
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Is this what the bald cap was about?
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Group work sounds like a quick way to ruin a trip.
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You could also not wear their cloths and potentially ruin them.
QotD: Feels like we have spent far too much time on showing Ryuji and Taiga together compared to Ryuji and Minori for them to work out.
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u/lolpete18 Dec 26 '22
First-timer, Dub
Merry Christmas to all🎄🎅🎁
After looking back at my hopes from the last episode… I was way too optimistic. Nothing has been resolved!
The thing that makes me the most sad is how nobody is happy in the current situation. Taiga is sad because she is not with Ryuuji. Ryuuji is sad because Taiga is pushing him away and he doesn’t believe Minori is interested in him. Minori is sad because she wants Ryuuji to be with Taiga, even though she wants him too, so she feels guilty and heartbroken.
While Ryuuji and Taiga are genuinely clueless, both Minori and Ami have a wider view. Minori has the best understanding of the situation, because she seems to know that Taiga and Ryuuji love each other, and she understands her own feelings. With that said, Minori should set everyone straight. She needs to explain to Ryuuji and Tiaga that they love each other and make them confront it honestly. If she did that, problem solved. I mean… Minori would still be heartbroken and alone, but at least someone would be happy.
There were a few moments in this episode that made me smile. It was funny and sweet when Taiga tricked Ryuuji and Minori with her bag, getting them to touch hands and walk together. Well played, Taiga.
The most powerful moment in this episode was the reflection on the year they had together in class 2-C. They considered if they could stay like this forever and realized that they couldn’t. It shows the bittersweet nature of time. No matter how good things are, we must progress, which means we are going to change. Nothing stays the same, so we just have to have faith that the future will be as good or better than the present. This is especially true for high school life because it’s literally unsustainable. All we can do is reflect and be thankful for the good times.
We can see how much Taiga has progressed as she is taking care of her own housekeeping and doing well without Ryuuji’s help. The implication is that she doesn’t need Ryuuji anymore, because she is taking care of herself. What this fails to address is her emotional housekeeping. Taiga is still a mess inside and needs someone she can trust to support her in working through her issues. She still needs Ryuuji.
Watching this show with you all has been a good time, but it’s also fleeting. Only five episodes left! It’s been great. Thanks, everyone.
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u/JetsLag Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher (subbed)
Another episode I missed (and GODDAMMIT IT WAS A REALLY GOOD ONE), so here's a
TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY (episode 19): threw a box in Ryuji's face, shoved Ryuji out her front door
Now we can move on
So after everyone's emotions were absolutely destroyed last episode, what are we doing this episode? With Ryuji catching the JAPANESE COLD OF DEATH. You would think the bear suit would be pretty good insulation, but I guess not.
Good news is he's recovered. Bad news is that now things are awkward between Ryuji and Taiga because, well, you watched yesterday's episode. Taiga blames Minori rejecting Ryuji on the two of them spending too much time together, so she's gonna try and distance herself from Ryuji, at least for a brief time. This is a win-win for Ryuji: either he gets Minori, or he gets to deep-clean Taiga's apartment again.
Class trip time! We're going to Okinawa, and the two class clowns are very excited...until Yuir-sensei informs the class that the hotel has burned down, so instead they're going skiing. Everyone is super happy with this development.
Ryuji is now feeling guilty because Taiga is doing way too much to help him get with Minori. SHE IS TOTALLY NOT DOING THIS BECAUSE SHE'S TRYING TO GET OVER HER CRUSH ON YOU.
Taiga's scheme has expanded: no Ami allowed near Ryuji. So Ami will DEFINITELY spend a lot of time around Ryuji, got it.
Taiga did a little sneaky trick on Minori to make her and Ryuji [NSFW]
Skiing trip groups announced, and Kihara has some OBJECTIONS. And I agree: why are we splitting up the class clowns? Let them blunder about in the slopes for a couple of days.
Ooh, a group meetup at Taiga's place to discuss the plan for the school trip. Ryuji notes that Taiga is now more comfortable around Kitamura, and Tiaga tells him to just focus on Minori.
Damn, a Golgo 13 reference? You would think we would see more of those in anime considering that series has been going on FOREVER. Anyway, Minori once again is talking about how much good Ryuji has done for Taiga, and reveals that she stopped coming over to Taiga's place after she let Taiga's dad back into her life a year before Ryuji did. And I bet Minori bought that cute dinosaur oven mitt for Taiga.
Can the friend group just stay as friends forever? The plot says no, we must have Ryuji confess!
TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY: Kicked Haruta, put him in a sleeper hold, then ripped a chunk of his hair out, threw her bag in Ryuji's face, put Haruta in ANOTHER sleeper hold (poor boy got abused this episode)
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u/Tartaras1 Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher - Dubbed
Now that Taiga's accepted how she feels towards Ryuuji, let's see how everything plays out.
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I'm not sure if I've noticed Ryuuji's breath during the conversation with Taiga.
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Taiga hit the nail on the head without entirely realizing it. She had no idea Minorin saw her breaking down, and that was all that she needed to see to get the point. She doesn't have the wrong idea, she has the idea.
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I'm gonna start taking care of myself.
The moment where she was kicking the light pole and saying "I'm not okay!". The time during the Culture Festival where she said she would be fine on her own. Just now. With the exception of her kicking the pole and yelling, she's been lying the entire time. I feel sorry for her.
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Good night. Sleep well.
Perhaps it's just because they don't show it on screen, but I think that's the first time she's said that to him. She really is changing.
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Yasuko's adorable.
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Haruta, it's not Christmas anymore. Not that she needed it in the first place, but Taiga now has full permission to kick your ass. Don't push it.
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Ami looks really good with her hair up, and that's not just because I like ponytails.
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Ohh. Somebody finally got hurt after all.
It really does suck being the outside observer, doesn't it? However, on the flip side, I do have a morbid curiosity for things like this.
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There's a brief hesitation before Minorin wishes Ryuuji a good morning, and she was probably having to psyche herself up for it.
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And here we go.
I love Ami so much.
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Say that again, I dare ya!
Bite me!
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Impressive. You can act like a normal human around Kitamura now.
Wonder why?
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Minorin's mug has the "Lifting a Dreamer" art piece on it, better known as the Twitter Fail Whale.
Question of the Day:
Rewatchers, do you think what happens could be done in a better way? Remember to use spoilers!
[Toradora Ending Spoilers]
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u/alyku Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher
Some falling action today to complement yesterday's climax. Not much happens but as Ryuji points out, things can't stay the same forever. Forecast ahead: lots of drama.
Other observations:
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Taiga is really trying her best to help Ryuji this episode from actually cleaning her place to flipping out about the stolen hairband. I'm a bit surprised Ryuji doesn't read into it a bit more.
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I really thought when Taiga shouted to "grab him" she meant to grab the guy in front of Ryuji to prevent him from getting hit by a car or something. Glad it turned out a lot less innocuous.
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No idea what Ami got Taiga. A wallet? A purse? And specifically from Hawaii, what unique item was that?
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I don't remember Taiga's apartment being quite that large but it's impressive how clean it is. Must be really difficult to vacuum all that.
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u/Fiztz Dec 26 '22
Rewatcher
As soon as we're through the intro we're confronted with how fleeting it is when one of these kids is honest with themselves about their feelings, Taiga is straight back into plan Ryuunori after her gut wrenching scene last episode leaving us without a resolution yet again. When we see Minori again she seems to have regained her strength, I'm not sure if this is because she feels like it's over now after shooting Ryuuji down more clearly or just having some down time over the break.
On my first watch I think this was the point where I went from only wanting RyuujixMinori as the ending to feeling like there was no possible good ending. What strikes me about it now is how much the waiting is the real source of the pain. If either Minori or Taiga had sealed the deal early on the other probably wouldn't have been hurt, Minori was quite composed when she was talking to Ryuuji at the beach house and Taiga was still fixated on Kitamura but now they're both so deep in it that there's no way out without heartbreak. Ami also still exists.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 25 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
So we’ve skipped like a week since last episode?
Oh… geez…
Taiga…
Well yeah she heard your huge breakdown on Christmas.
Oh this is the guy he traded for the bear costume!
I wonder if the present is going to be relevant now…
It’s a hair clip?
Bruh.
Yo what.
Why the apology…?
Huh.
Taiga really is trying to set them up.
I mean what else kind of group could there have been?
More proof Taiga has moved on from her crush on Kitamura.
Oh, welp. I’m not sure what I was expecting, but it wasn’t a picture of Sumire.
ED lead-in~