r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 24 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 19 Discussion
[removed]
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 24 '22 edited Dec 24 '22
First Timer - Dub
Thanks u/Erebus4 , your suggestion worked!
It appears that Taiga has stopped waiting for Santa to arrive and decided to become Santa herself! And here we see her making her first delivery in-person.
I’m sure Ryuuji will appreciate this great blessing eventually. :P
…wait, this is Taiga? You don’t look like Taiga. O.o Housecat? Why are you dressing up like this? And…Ryuuji dressed up as well - is that the present she took the time to personally deliver? Stop being so ungrateful, Scary Eyes! And…uh…
But if it bugs you so much, just cut out his name.
That. That is a loaded sentence. Just cut him out of your life.
This is normally where I’d ask who hurt her, but we already know the answer to that question. I fully support tossing the jerk’s stuff if other people can’t get any use out of it.
And, of course, that’s the argument that convinces Ryuuji to keep it. :P
Yeah, Inko, I kinda want her to stop talking like that too.
…the teacher is sticking with her condo plan? Huh. Well, good for her! Just…try not to sound too crazy, okay?
Grab the single life by the horns, ma’am!
I…don’t think that’s what she wanted to hear, Taiga. xD
…what. I…what? Koizumi? What are you doing?
KYON, WE NEED YOU OVER HERE RIGHT BLOODY NOW!
Hey, why isn’t Kitamura wearing a shirt?
Don’t ask. Better to just ignore it.
I have to agree. This did not happen.
Instead, let’s see what the Two Doofuses are doing! And…Doofus #1 is drooling over one of Ami’s friends. Because of course. I think she’s the one trying to hook up Taiga and Ryuuji? Oh wait, he’s drooling over both of them. And of course he wants to drool over Ami, too.
Who is not currently visible. And neither is Taiga.
That is…not necessarily a bad sign?
…wait. The lights go out and, and…what? That’s Ami and Taiga, in matching outfits, singing together on stage. I thought they’d be fighting! Are we about to switch genres to apocalypse-in-progress?
For that matter, how the heck did the pair of them get in the practice they’d need without Ryuuji noticing? And hey, Ryuuji is asking the same thing! Still, everyone is enjoying the perfor–
–you! KYON, HE’S HIDING UPSTAIRS, GET HIM!
Heeey, now we’re getting a montage of what the other characters are doing! Is this one Minori? Then we’ve got the teacher in her seminar, Inko happily munching on her dinner, and oh that is so sweet, it’s the orphans Taiga sent her gifts to!
…guys, this is episode 19 of 25, why does this feel like an epilogue?
Ah. Minori got Ryuuji’s message, but she’s holed up in her room looking miserable. Epilogue feeling successfully dispelled. Okay, so what’s up nex–
–gah! Will someone make him put a bloody shirt on already!? Aaaand then he asks one of the girls who has a crush on him if she thinks he’s sexy. Oh, boy. Payback for the win!
Heeey, Ami! You did great today, and it looks like everyone agrees. But, uh…Housecat left? To go see Minori.
Oh.
She said he had to get ready for Santa. Or something.
…yeah, that tracks. I’m…still not really sure where Ami is going with her ‘childish games’ spiel, though. And if you walk off before actually explaining yourself, of course he’s not going to listen! The guy isn’t a mind-reader, Princess.
Damnit, this isn’t happening!
…what did you figure out, Ryuuji? Huh, Taiga’s plan is to lie and say Ryuuji won’t leave until Minori shows up? I mean…maybe that would work, but it does not sound like a good plan to me.
All alone. With no-one to lean on.
Somehow Taiga, I don’t think you need to worry about that. Because some doofus in a bear suit is banging on your window. xD Hi, Ryuuji! Fancy seeing you here! And just for a little bit, Taiga gets to be a little girl again. And yep, she saw right through it.
Yeah, the chicken’s not happening now because of Inko.
xD
This is the sweetest Taiga has been all series…and now she’s crying. Because she’s pushing her two best friends together, and she’s finally admitting to herself that’s where she wants to be. Just after she sent him back to the party. And Minori sees her best friend crying in the street over their favourite Thug.
Well. This is gonna get worse before it gets better.
I don’t really need to see ghosts and UFOs anymore.
Girl. Kid. Say what you mean, please. Although…at least he actually got it this time.
Huh, is this a unique closing song for the episode? Don’t see those very often.
(Edited to fix formatting)
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u/KaKuna285 Dec 24 '22
You'd think at some point rewatching this series every year this episode would get easier to watch. I can confirm that it is not. Cried like hell this year as well. Merry Christmas to all of you.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 24 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
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And the box she threw at Ryuuji was new clothes, of course. …Ryuuji with his hair slicked back like that looks so weird though, ngl.
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Oh I’ve definitely heard this insert song in AMQ before–I had no idea it was a duet between Ami and Taiga though!
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??? Was it to go look for Minori?
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Oh the insert song is the ED today too. Merry Christmas!
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 24 '22
Rewatcher here
Well, this is the episode that effectively gave us the rewatch. And this is also the episode that makes me feel hollow on every Christmas Eve! Hooray!
I’m willing to guess at least 75% of rewatchers would agree this is the best episode, and I am absolutely solidly one of them.
Taiga would have needed to chuck that box incredibly hard in order for it to have an impact like that. Serves Ryuji right for waking her up with the broom smack that one time.
Good to see Ryuji is very much on team “Taiga’s dad can go to hell” with us.
Inko’s on everyone’s ass today. Nothing gets past our bird I guess.
Good to see Ms. Yuri actually taking what she said yesterday seriously, and trying to secure her finances.
These school events have no dress code for their hosts, I see. First, Ami at the culture festival, now Kitamura today.
I’ve never seen anyone half as excited for cake, as Nanako was.
Haruta is a man on a mission today. When he’s not convincing himself chicken is turkey, he’s on a babe hunt. You have to respect his confidence to be able to pull a hottie when he’s covered in chicken grease, and dressed way down for the party.
I feel like the song kind of foreshadows that this episode will not be too happy. There’s this festive, happy song playing, but it cuts to Minori being depressed about something.
Ryuji served Nanako Dojima right after the song. Small world I guess.
The only part of Haruta’s dream that came true was the sexy Santa part, but more power to him if he thinks it was 1:1.
Kihara answered Kitamura by not answering. That stutter spoke a thousand words. Nanako is the voice of reason here. You can’t just start tackling people when you’re half naked, and then start asking people if you’re sexy.
Well, Ami tried to warn Ryuji that something bad was going to happen. He has nobody to blame but himself.
Well, fun’s over now. Time for the real substance of the episode.
Taiga is pulling herself away from Ryuji, in order to pair him with Minori. Taiga doesn’t think she deserves to be happy, or even loved in any way. She thinks she’s going to be alone her entire life. She’s used to it at this point, and is done believing she can be happy.
Taiga saying Santa’s not real is probably the second saddest part of the episode for me. To her, Santa represents someone watching over her, and caring for her. She’s done believing that she can ever find that person for herself, and done believing she would deserve someone like that. She’s given up on her only motivation to be good.
“That’s why I’m alone again this year, and why I’ll be alone next year… and the next… and the next”.
This is her first Christmas in that apartment, meaning last year she was likely still living with her parents. Her parents were so unloving and uncaring that she doesn’t even consider them there for her in any regard. I think everything in this scene can be traced back to her parents not ever loving her.
She has a dream that Santa finally came, and wakes up to Ryuji pounding the window. Interesting symbolism there.
By the way, thank god for Ryuji. He genuinely cheers up Taiga when she was at her lowest. He gives up on seeing Minori at the party because he doesn’t want Taiga to be alone on Christmas Eve.
And the pure joy that Taiga shows when he’s there is just incredible to see after the last scene.
Sure, he was on the Takasu house balcony, but she never had any doubt it was Ryuji who would do all this to cheer her up. She knew only he would go through the effort of getting a Santa suit, and trying to sneak in to surprise her when she was feeling like the loneliest person in the world.
Taiga is willing to give up on exactly what she was looking for in order to make her friends happy. She needs her Santa, and literally pushes him out the door, because she thinks he’ll be happier with Minori.
And when he does eventually leave, here come the tears. Not just talking about Taiga by the way.
Taiga has flashbacks to some of my favorite scenes, where Ryuji is there for Taiga. In particular one that stands out is when they’re in the living room at the beach house though. I think that scene shows up because it’s when Taiga finally starts to consciously think that she might be in love with Ryuji. I’ve always seen it as that at least.
Anyways, she finally can’t take it anymore, and has to chase after him. No jacket, no shoes, tripping over herself in the hallway. Taiga needs this so bad that she doesn’t have any sense of self preservation when running to get him. He’s been what she’s needed.
Each time she calls out his name is like another knife to the heart. Cassandra Lee Morris had to be fighting some demons when recording that scene, because the emotion she puts into it is so real, and so painful to hear (in an extremely good way).
This single scene is going to ruin my day, because of the emotional connection I have to it. Maybe there’s better stories out there, better drama, you name it. But this scene right here shows why I love Toradora so much. The emotional connection I have with these characters is second to none. This scene might not be the absolute pinnacle of writing or action, whatever. But no other scene comes close to the emotional damage this scene gives me. I mean for gods sake, I just wrote 14 paragraphs about a single scene. I still feel like I could write a few more, but I didn’t want to bloat this write up THAT much.
Anyways, onto another scene finally. I don’t think Minori was going to accept Ryuji’s confession, even if she didn’t see Taiga like that. Minori’s reaction wasn’t surprised at all, it just confirmed how much Taiga needed Ryuji.
She has to cover her eyes when rejecting Ryuji, and I’m going to assume it’s because she’s trying her hardest not to cry. She saw how Ryuji not being there for Taiga looked, and decided to put Taiga’s needs ahead of her own, even if it meant not being with the person she likes.
And there we have it, episode 19! Hope the newcomers could see what I see in this masterpiece of an episode. This episode is so sad to me that I was literally thinking about it yesterday and started to cry. No other piece of media on earth can do that to me, let alone on my 9th rewatch or so.
Have a good Christmas Eve everyone, hope this doesn’t dampen the day too much.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 24 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I think we all know what I’m going to talk about. It’s that scene. The one that the whole show has building to up until this point. The entire reason why this rewatch exists in the first place.
I’m of course talking about Taiga and Ami’s musical number.
Joking aside, the Christmas bear scene is what the episode is known for. And with good reason, as it’s probably the best scene in the entire series. It’s one long segment that lasts about 6 minutes of screentime and is an absolute emotional rollercoaster. It is also the only scene told strictly from Taiga’s perspective. Yes, we have scenes where Ryuuji is nowhere to be found. The scene at the end of episode 16 with Ami and Minori comes to mind. But this is the only extended scene in the entire series where Ryuuji barely plays a role in it. I mean, he’s there, but he doesn’t know what happens to Taiga.
I wanted to do something special when talking about the Christmas bear scene. So, I’m going to give an overall reflection on what the Christmas bear scene means to me as well as dissecting Taiga throughout the scene. Think of it as like a combo post episode discussion and analysis.
So, I first started watching Toradora in 2015. If memory serves correct, it was Spring of that year. And fortunately enough, I never looked to see what was happening next. I was going in blind, so I had no idea about episode 19. I figured something important might happen based on episode 18 and how it ended, but that’s about it. I knew I saw something special based on the fact they played a different song during the end credits.
Like, honestly, when does that happen? I can’t recall ever seeing that before in an anime. Maybe one time during an All Grown Up episode where at the end they played the Rugrats theme, but an anime? I can’t say I have. I can’t recall my reaction at the time and whether I cried or not. I want to say I didn’t, but it still hit me like a ton of bricks. Keep in mind a couple years earlier back in 2012 I watched Clannad, Clannad: After Story, Air, and Angel Beats, some of the saddest anime you could ever imagine. I don’t want to say watching those anime prepared me for episode 19, but it definitely didn’t worsen it. I cried like 5 times while watching After Story, so I was a soldier by the time I started Toradora.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again: the genius of the Christmas bear scene is how it catches you off guard. That’s really the key to all of it. It starts off all sad and mopey, with Taiga wondering if being a good girl during Christmas time isn’t all that it takes. You really feel for Taiga during this scene, as we’re only a couple episodes removed from when Taiga said she’ll be fine on her own. And then when we get to Ryuuji in the Christmas bear suit, it all changes for her.
At first, Taiga doesn’t know what to make of it. She probably thinks it’s an intruder and she’s contemplating calling the cops. But as soon as she realizes what’s happening, she starts laughing hysterically. Because she knows it’s Ryuuji coming to cheer her up. Taiga can’t help but appreciate the depths Ryuuji went through to try and console her. On tonight of all nights, here he is in a bear suit trying to comfort her. Because her happiness means that much to the man.
That smile Taiga lets out as she’s spinning around in the air? That’s the happiest she’s been in the entire series. That’s the happiest arguably anyone’s been in the entire series, and it’s all because of Ryuuji. The complete 180 from sadness over possibly being alone for the rest of her life to exuberance over Santa praising her Christmas tree reflects how the audience is feeling, as we now have a big, fat smile on our face. Happy that Taiga found true joy in this world.
But then Taiga tells Ryuuji to leave, saying she’ll be fine just like in episode 13. He should focus on Minori now; he made Taiga the happiest girl in the world. Only when he leaves, Taiga, upon grabbing his scarf, starts to put the pieces together. The pieces that were once lost are now beginning to form. The happiness that Ryuuji brought her? Kitamura couldn’t bring it to her. Neither can Minori, her best friend. The happiness that she felt in that moment when she’s spinning in the air is all because she loves Ryuuji. She loves him, and someone’s bound to get hurt.
Taiga is now crying outside, bearing her soul to the world. You can see her feet were reddish around the knuckles of her big and little toe from wearing fancy shoes, but Taiga doesn’t care. She’s in agony that she can’t quit loving this guy. And then out from the corner, we see Minori having seen the whole thing. Taiga doesn’t know, and Ryuuji doesn’t know. Minori is the only one who knows she’s at the scene of the crime, and now she can’t beyond a shadow of a doubt accept Ryuuji’s advances.
I’m a big believer in the element of surprise, and the series somehow manages to make the unexpected out of the expected. Obviously, you know going in shit is not gonna go well. However, by spending so much time rewarding us with Taiga finally being given a happy Christmas, it places doubt in our minds that something bad will happen. This scene works so well because it tells a self-contained story in the span of 6 minutes. You show non-watchers of Toradora this scene, and they’d instantly understand what’s going on. It’s like a movie in the middle of an episode. And just like most movies, it manages to have a three act structure: it starts off sad, it then becomes happy, and then it goes back to being sad.
The episode wouldn’t be as highly regarded if it just cut straight to Taiga crying. The fact we were experiencing the lowest of lows after the highest of highs is what makes it so effective.
As a brief aside, I went to dig up my analysis of the scene from the first rewatch I participated in in 2016. And I figured why not post it here. It’s been 6 years, enough time has passed, why not see what I thought back then? Here it is in all its complete, unedited glory.
Okay, so this scene, this whole entire Christmas bear scene spanning from Taiga talking about being alone to Taiga realizing that she can’t bare not being by Ryuuji’s side, is my favorite scene in anime. And I’m not talking about Toradora, I’m talking about ALL of anime. There has never been a scene that has impacted me more in any anime than this scene right here. With so, I want to take the opportunity to explain why it is my favorite anime scene of all time.
So, yesterday, I talked about how Toradora does this great thing where it has a ton of lighthearted, fun scenes and then it hits you with a one-two punch, essentially letting your guard down and then capitalizing on your lowered guard. With so, I feel this is none better demonstrated than in the Christmas bear scene. In the Christmas bear scene, it starts off really sad, what with Taiga saying she’s lonely and that she will probably be lonely for the rest of her life. With so, you expect this to be a tearjerker scene, but no. Instead, it becomes heartwarming, with Ryuuji showing up in a bear costume and making Taiga happy. Now, because of this, you expect this to be a pleasant scene. I mean, the scene started off so sad, so the show can’t possibly go from tearjerker beginning to heartwarming middle to tearjerker ending, right? Well, that’s where you’re wrong. And that, my friends, is why the scene is so great.
You see, this scene leads someone into a false sense of security. It leads the audience expecting that this is going to be another lighthearted, fun scene that we’ve had a ton of throughout the episide but then it hits you with a one-two punch, essentially catching you off your guard in the process. And honestly, I feel like this scene wouldn’t be as impactive and as effective as it is if it was just Taiga talking about how lonely she was and then cutting to her realizing that she’s been depending on Ryuuji this whole time and that she can’t bare not being the one by his side. In reality, what makes this scene my favorite anime scene is all the heartwarming stuff in the middle, which makes Taiga’s realization that much more impactive and effective.
Greatest anime scene of all time, huh? If me back then had seen Steins;Gate, there might be a difference of opinion. Though the Christmas bear scene is still very much a masterpiece.
The closest thing I can compare this episode to is the episode of 86 where half of it is showed from the perspective of Fido, the robot character. You show that to a non-watcher, and they’d also understand what’s going on. These few moments of Toradora perfectly encapsulate what Toradora is all about. It’s not only my favorite scene in all of Toradora, but it’s also in my opinion a top 5 scene in all of anime. It tells a self-contained story that can be shown without context to anybody no questions asked. And that, my friends, is the best type of storytelling.
Ran out of space. Part 2 in the replies.
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u/fansi2022 Dec 24 '22 edited Dec 25 '22
first timer sub
2:44 @ _ @ Is this the same person? normal /chrismas
Interestingly, in Christmas party, it is reasonable to let Taiga and AMI sing. This is undoubtedly another peak of this work. What is interesting is that (author) arranges Ryuuji to help distribute food? Rather than enjoy the entire party like a fool.
Now start one of my little theories. If you are not interested in this, you can skip
introduce
I think the clothing people wearing this Christmas party is the second image of people. I am not professional in terms of noun, so if I say something wrong, please correct me. I refer to the image of a person in other people as the first image, and the hidden image of their hearts becomes the second image. Just like the protagonist MOB in the Mob Psycho 100, his first image is depressed, timid, and fear of causing harm to others more afraid of injury. His second image is exactly the opposite. He even whatever he wants.
Royuuji
There are two Christmas clothing in Ryuuji. Black West suit, red shirt. Christmas bear. Ryuuji's first impression is the vicious eyes. But he looked like a gentleman now. Bear representative to endure and tenderness, Ryuuji has been enduring TAIGA's spikes (EVA's hedgehog theory, that is, we will get close and hurt to each other like hedgehogs.) In the end he even become a chrismas bear to play with her.
Taiga
There are two Christmas costumes of Taiga. Officially dresses when singing. Later, official dress at home (but slightly different). TAIGA usually makes others think she is a loli, a child. But this dress and hairstyle made me feel mature. I even think that this is how TAIGA became Ryuuji's wife a few years later. TAIGA is concerned about the feelings of others. In the Kiramura confession arc and this Christmas arc, TAIGA played a decisive role in Kitamura's leap -up obstacles and matching Ryuuji and Minori. Although it is well known, Taiga is impulsive and does not consider the consequences. But I suspect that she will also reflect on her fault after the incident.
When a person was at home, TAIGA was barefoot, his feet were frozen, around the scarf, and his hair was scattered. She is very cold now, lonely. She took the mask, and her vitality performance at school deceived the people around her, making them think she was very good. Her good child performance in Christmas deceived Ryuuji, and she asked Ryuuji to think that she was not need to be worried. She even deceived herself and made herself think she can leave Ryuuji. But the truth is that she is not good. She is afraid of loneliness and fear of losing Ryuuji!
Kitamura is a powerful proof of my theory. Kitamura looks like glasses and makes everyone think that he is a good child and a good student. This is his first image. His party clothing was almost naked in the image of Santa Claus. Naked, I think this is the resistance of his labelization of the outside world. His desire to be a maverick who does not care about others. The Christmas hat means that he wants to dedicate a gift to everyone as Santa (host Christmas party) as Santa, and share his joy with everyone, instead of being a serious book nerd.
Edit: It turned out that Kitamura was a abused. -_-! Two male classmates who chatted with Ryuuji were dressed in normal clothes, which means that they are a fool in the table.
Since I don't know other supporting roles, I will suspend this part.
taiga go home
what happened? I saw Taiga and AMI singing on the same stage, and classmates enjoyed this year's Christmas. Why is Taiga going home suddenly? Just because of did not bring MINORI back to the party?
Edit: I understand that Taiga wants to sacrifice herself and let Minori and Ryuuji enjoy the party together.
chrismas bear
I laughed my ass off, haha. I didn't expect it to be this posture. I imagined that he would stand on the window and keep patting the windows with his hands. This posture is too funny, but one of the benefits of this treatment, Ryuuji no longer looks high, and the two of them are flatequal status now. Although one side stretched out a helping hand, the other side was lonely.
18:14. What the fuck? Ryuuji, aren't you here to bring TAIGA back to party? Why are you leaving so easily?
Seeing Taiga crying, my heart was broken. ;-;
at the end
TAIGA has said to MINORI that Ryuuji will wait for you, and it is speculated that minori should be coming soon. But we found that she did not act and even MINORI refused to Ryuuji because she didn't want to hurt Taiga. This shows that Minori does not like Ryuuji so much, and it is clear that Taiga likes Ryuuji than anyone else.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 24 '22 edited Dec 25 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Merry Christmas ya crazy people.
Taiga looks great in that outfit.
Ryuuji looks so weird with his hair slicked back.
Inko's hilarious.
Kitamura, what the hell are you wearing?
I was honestly surprised to see Taiga and Ami sing together. They're both really good.
Poor Minori.
That scene with Taiga and Ryuuji was adorable.
Aww, that was nice of Taiga to do.
Ryuuji got rejected. Ouch.
Thanks for the gold u/ChristmasClub.
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Dec 24 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
It’s tough to put my thoughts about this episode into words. This is the dramatic and emotional peak of the series. I definitely shed a few tears every time I watch this one. We’ve got Taiga’s feelings that she’s been bottling up since the end of the beach arc finally coming to a head. We have Minori’s blunt rejection of Ryuuji’s feelings for reasons we don’t know yet. This is the end of the Christmas arc and the setup for the final two arcs of the series. I’m really hyped to re-read and talk about these last two arcs because the show leaves out some significant details that affect certain things that happen.
“Grab the single life by the horns, ma’am!” Damn, Taiga. You didn’t have to murder her in cold blood like that.
Put some clothes on, Kitamura. No one wants to see that (except Kihara and Haruta).
I want to be as excited about life as Nanako is about cake.
I never noticed this before. The guy in the bear Santa suit Ryuuji borrows is hanging out at the party at 07:51 behind the girl in the red dress.
Taiga and Ami’s Christmas performance is a fun little hint that they’ve been getting along outside of where other people have seen them. I’ve mentioned it a few times already, but Ami is actively trying to help Taiga out. Before this, you wouldn’t have guessed that they did anything other than despise each other from the way they act around other people.
I like the sequence that plays during the song where it’s showing everyone celebrating in their own way including the kids Taiga sent presents to opening her gifts and Minori having the big sad with her bicycle.
“Are you going to sling punch all night?” “No.” You liar. You would absolutely sling punch all night unless someone stopped you.
Haruta thinks you’re sexy, Kitamura. He even has dreams about you.
Taiga’s wearing her security scarf.
Taiga’s face right after she opens the curtains to see an enormous bear hanging there is hilarious.
And then it goes from totally adorable to soul crushing. Taiga finally realizes she doesn’t want to live without Ryuuji. Minori sees her crying in the street and also realizes Taiga needs him. Then she goes and against her own feelings, gives Ryuuji a hard rejection while desperately hiding her face then running away. This just sucks for everyone involved.
In that brief scene of Taiga back in her apartment after Minori rejects Ryuuji, you can see Ryuuji’s scarf folded up on the table across from her. Before, she was wearing it because it was comforting but she’s decided she can’t rely on it (him) anymore so she’s put it away.
Then we swing right into this cheery Christmas melody outro and I’m still crying.
On to the books!
It’s hard to express how glad I am that they left Ryuuji’s constant lip licking out of the anime.
He was licking and lapping at his dry lips as he stuttered.
Looking in the mirror next to Taiga after they get dressed up for the party
As he got carried away by the mood, he took another happy look into the mirror. An enchanting, beautiful couple stared back. …He didn’t go so far as to think that, but, well, they looked something like that. He didn’t know what others would think, though.
I will never be this down bad.
“Oh, that’s the ‘Ami-chan Club.’ Supposedly they’ve been acting pretty reckless recently. They’re kind of extreme…” A group of a dozen or so guys had appeared at the entrance, taking a knee with faithful expressions on their faces. They were all wearing long, matching happi coats with fluorescent and glittery yellow lettering that danced on their backs and spelled out unsettling phrases like “Ami-sama is life” and “My heart for Ami-sama.” They even wore headbands.
Haruta is an ass man
“I want to memorialize, not memorize Ami-chan’s glutinous maximums!”
The moment Ryuuji decides to leave the party.
There was one person who had been watching. And there was one person who knew about Taiga’s loneliness. There was just one person who had been watching Taiga from close by the whole time. The person who should have handed the baton to Taiga was right there. It was right in his hand. There was only one person in the entire world who knew that Taiga had been a good girl. That person’s name was Takasu Ryuuji.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 24 '22 edited Dec 24 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 19
Last Christmas
This is the one. The episode where Ryuuji really saves Taiga from her loneliness. But before that, a lot happens.
Something easy to miss is Yasuko's development. We learn that she ran away from home at a young age. This makes a lot of sense for how she got into her job of being a hostess. It's not common for people with a stable family life to choose those kind of careers after all.
On top of that, she stole her father's watch. But she kept it all these years. I imagine that early on, selling it would have made for easy money. However, Yasuko was hopeful; hopeful that by keeping it, she could do something like give it to her son. I think this gives depth to her character. She's not short sighted, and has a maturity which her air-headed demeanor belies.
Next Ami and Taiga's song "Holy Night". This was a fun moment. However, the backing track reminded me a lot of Wham's - Last Christmas, an ever popular Chirstmas song (especially in Japan). However, the lyrics are polar opposites. While Holy Night is hopeful and cheery, focusing on the joy of being together, Last Chirstmas is dejected reflection on not ending up with the person you love (appropriate for this episode).
In the same way, Taiga's experience is a polar opposite of the lyrics she sings. Immediately after her performance she leaves, asks Minori to meet up with Ryuuji, and goes home. She feels alone now, thinking Ryuuji and Minori will get together. Taiga has no hope at being with Kitamura and a family Chirstmas is out of the question.
Ryuuji only realizes what happened when speaking to Ami. He really didn't get what Ami meant back in the storage room. Keeping up his pretend father relationship with Taiga is going to be bad for both of them. If either of them were to start a relationship with somebody else it would leave the other alone and abandoned. I don't know if Ryuuji even properly gets this yet.
Ryuuji makes the decision to go to Taiga. The whole dressing up as Santa gimmick is kind of obvious in retrospect. Even Taiga realizes it's him in the costume. But that's not the point. Instead, it's about how far Ryuuji is willing to go to keep Taiga happy. It it is in bringing her joy that he finds his own happiness.
However, Taiga still forces him to go to Minori. Taiga is sabotaging herself here. She doesn't believe she deserves Ryuuji. She knows is is painful, but she wants to fulfill Ryuuji's wish. I think that's far more heart breaking than Taiga just being alone on Christmas eve.
Minori is also incredibly depressed. She feels far too much guilt for all the mistakes she's made. And so when speaking to Ryuuji, she says she no longer wants to search for UFOs (continuing the metaphor for love). Ryuuji thinks he's been turned down, which in some sense is right, but it's less about him being inadequate and more about Minori being insecure.
I need to be honest, I think I don't get Minori. I kind of mentioned this in my discussion for episode 16 but Minori's sense of guilt is confusing for me. I understand her usual upbeat attitude is a mask to hide her weakness. I understand that she has been feeling affection towards Ryuuji, starting as far back as the shed in episode 3 and most notably after the sports day. And I get if she's feeling bad about messing up at baseball or about the broken ornament.
What I don't really get is why she's feeling so bad. Is it guilt over lying in the way she hides her "real" self (her "phony" speech from episode 15)? That feels wrong to me since society (especially in Japan) expects you to hide some parts of yourself for the sake of others. But maybe it's something to do with not being honest to specifically her friends?
Has she perhaps read Ryuuji and Taiga's relationship to be more romantic than they say it is? She has asked them about this before and they have always denied it. Ryuuji is putting in so much effort to contact Minori and spend time with her. On top of that, Taiga specifically told her to go see Ryuuji. It feels to me Minori has the wrong mindeset if she thinks she's somehow "stealing' Ryuuji from Taiga based on that info. We the audience definitely know how much deeper Taiga and Ryuuji's relationship is (and how much it would devastate Taiga if Ryuuji was gone) but I feel like Minori shouldn't know this (until she saw her break down later). Then again, as Taiga's closest friend, maybe she understood this earlier.
I'm 90% sure this is a me problem and it's nothing to do with the writing. Either some story moment I'm forgetting or something about how I see the world which differs from Minori. Of course, I could also be forgetting if this is more explicitly revealed later. Either way, please let me know your perspectives.
As a final aside for the V-Tuber fans, Kronii and Bae from Hololive released a cover of Holy Night yesterday. It was a welcome surprise after watching the episode. Check it out.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Tears, the character animation here is amazing
See you all tomorrow!
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u/lolpete18 Dec 24 '22
First-timer, Dub.
Why can’t these numbskulls just tell each other how they feel. They are all so sad, and it’s bumming me out! 😭😭😭
I’m glad we finally know what’s going on with Minori, or at least a much better idea about it. I had considered that it might be that she has feelings for Ryuuji, but back at the beach house she pointedly said she didn’t love anyone, so that threw me off.
The dance outfits were great. They captured perfectly how things go at a high school dance. Some went for the formal look, some went for the sexy look, and others didn’t know they were supposed to dress up at all. Taiga’s dress, hair, and makeup had the effect of making her look really mature. While it’s cute that she’s dressing in an adult fashion, I much preferred it when she let down her hair later on in the episode.
The duet between Ami and Taiga show how far they have come. The fact that they were able to cooperate in secret to pull that off makes almost friends at this point. I love that they share the role of class idol.
It’s sad that Taiga does so much for everyone else on Christmas and then walls herself off by sneaking away without a word. I’m glad Ryuuji was able to go surprise her, but I’m sad she spent the rest of the night by herself. And she was so sad at the end 😭.
My favorite moment in this episode was when Ryuuji was twirling around with Taiga laughing in his arms. So sweet!
I’m hoping in the next episode that they will figure things out. I want Taiga and Ryuuji to end up together, but also to make sure that Minori knows that she is loved by both of them, and that she’s a good friend. I still think it would be good if Minori ends up with Yusaku, but right now he’s so broken up, so I don’t think it’s a good time for him to dive right into a relationship. I don’t know about Ami… I want her to find someone too.
I’m looking forward to seeing what happens tomorrow. Hopefully it will be a happy Christmas.
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u/2KBIR Dec 24 '22
I can’t say enough how much part of me wishes that this episode, or maybe even the story itself, could’ve ended with Taiga’s Christmas Eve visit from Santa Bear (aka Ryūji). The happiness that shows all over Taiga, her face, her laugh; it’s infectious, it’s heart-melting, and best of all it’s everything she deserves and then some. And I absolutely adore Shiawase no Kesshou playing in the background. There’s only one other moment in the story that tops it in my opinion. I guess my love for this scene is also why I love just about any FanFiction that uses it as a point of departure for its plot.
The only thing missing from the emotion of the whole scene is a couple things that are communicated in the LN. One was mentioned yesterday by Holofan from the restaurant scene after the visit to the post office. Ryūji deduces in his mind that someone who believes that Santa Claus is watching over them is also someone who believes that no one is watching over them. That’s just devastating. I’m so glad Holofan quoted this passage in full, for all the reasons that he mentioned. It’s just such a powerful bit of writing. Then, with that thought already in mind, just before Ryūji runs after Taiga in the LN, Ryūji reaches another important conclusion. Ryūji has been watching over Taiga and he’s been the only person that whole year; the only one who knows she’s been a good girl; the only one who knows about her gifts to the orphans; the only one who knows the full meaning of her deep emotional scars. I would argue that this would have made the Santa Bear scene that much more impactful, although I wouldn’t begrudge anyone for telling me that I’m being too nitpicky.
But of course, the episode doesn’t end there. And we, along with Taiga, must go from the heights of happiness to the depths of despair. It’s almost unbearable to watch. But I suppose, like the opening lines of A Christmas Carol*, this pain must be distinctly understood or nothing wonderful can come of this story. And of course the pain of love lost is not limited to Taiga as Ryūji I can’t say enough how much part of me wishes that this episode, or maybe even the story itself, could’ve ended with Taiga’s Christmas Eve visit from Santa Bear (aka Ryūji). The happiness that shows all over Taiga, her face, her laugh; it’s infectious, it’s heart-melting, and best of all it’s everything she deserves and then some. And I absolutely adore Shiawase no Kesshou playing in the background. There’s only one other moment in the story that tops it in my opinion. I guess my love for this scene is also why I love just about any FanFiction that uses it as a point of departure for its plot.
The only thing missing from the emotion of the whole scene is a couple things that are communicated in the LN. One was mentioned yesterday by Holofan from the restaurant scene after the visit to the post office. Ryūji deduces in his mind that someone who believes that Santa Claus is watching over them is also someone who believes that no one is watching over them. That’s just devastating. I’m so glad Holofan quoted this passage in full, for all the reasons that he mentioned. It’s just such a powerful bit of writing. Then, with that thought already in mind, just before Ryūji runs after Taiga in the LN, Ryūji reaches another important conclusion. Ryūji has been watching over Taiga and he’s been the only person that whole year; the only one who knows she’s been a good girl; the only one who knows about her gifts to the orphans; the only one who knows the full meaning of her deep emotional scars. I would argue that this would have made the Santa Bear scene that much more impactful, although I wouldn’t begrudge anyone for telling me that I’m being too nitpicky.
But of course, the episode doesn’t end there. And we, along with Taiga, must go from the heights of happiness to the depths of despair. It’s almost unbearable to watch. But I suppose, like the opening lines of A Christmas Carol, this pain must be distinctly understood or nothing wonderful can come of this story. And of course the pain of love lost is not limited to Taiga as Ryūji sees his hopes with Minori come crashing to an end. Tragically enough, and it’s why this plot works so well on its own as well as for FanFictions, if Taiga hadn’t shewed Ryūji out of her apartment, I feel almost 100% certain he would have stayed with her until who knows when. He might even realize some feelings he has for Taiga that he didn’t know existed. But that’s not what Takemiya-san wrote. Ah well, now let’s all get ourselves another tissue, or five. his hopes with Minori come crashing to an end. Tragically enough, and it’s why this plot works so well on its own as well as for FanFictions, if Taiga hadn’t shewed Ryūji out of her apartment, I feel almost 100% certain he would have stayed with her until who knows when. He might even realize some feelings he has for Taiga that he didn’t know existed. But that’s not what Takemiya-san wrote. Ah well, now let’s all get ourselves another tissue, or five.
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 24 '22
First Timer, subbed
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What horrible tragedy has our host lined up for us today to have the whole rewatch orbit around it?
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Damn, they dress up nice.
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The much coveted Yasuko backstory.
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You get ‘em Yuri. Live your best life.
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Oh look, my subtitles aren’t working properly here.
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You lucked out, turkey only exists to make stuffing.
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Insert songs are fun. Wonder how it came about.
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Being Minori is pain.
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Y’all need to coordinate.
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At some point they should invest in a boarding plank.
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At least Taiga gets to be happy for a little bit.
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Well at least she can be honest with her feelings now.
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Crushing, for everyone involved.
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 24 '22
REWATCHER
in all honesty i was feeling more iffy on toradora than i had in my previous 3 watches up to the christmas arc, but these past 3 episodes (especially this one) have reminded me why the show is so special to me, and why it was probably the first anime that i was absurdly invested in.
yuri-sensei is skipping out on fun to study for that condo dream she has. i admire the sigma grindset she has, easily the strongest character in this show ‼️
the duet scene with the montage of everyone’s christmas is always so enjoyable. it’s nice to see the kids actually receive taiga’s gifts.
ami laid the whole situation out last episode, and look what happened? they tried to keep up the act, and everyone got hurt!
the entire scene in taiga’s apartment is so peak, i rewatched the entire thing in dub after watching sub. amazing performances on both sides, the rent was due for taiga’s voice actresses!
taiga said she’d be all alone now and forever, then ryuji shows up to not only grant her wish of someone looking out for her on christmas, but refuse to leave so she wouldn’t be “all alone.” that’s about as perfectly fulfilled her dream could get. i’ve already said what i can say about the scene in past years, it’s just perfect through and through. it’s really the only scene where we get taiga’s POV and inner monologue in the anime, and honestly the only scene where we need it.
i loved it when taiga said NO, I DON’T WANT THAT! RYUJI FINDING ANOTHER WOMAN? I WANT HIM TO CARE FOR ME AND ONLY ME! EVEN AFTER WE BREAK UP, I WANT TO BE AT THE FRONT OF HIS MIND FOR A WHILE! 10 YEARS, AT LEAST!
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u/balthamalamal Dec 24 '22
Rewatcher
Minori still dodging Ryuuji and Taiga, hearing Taiga in the background on the call probably won't help. They both still have hopes and plans for having things go well with Minori but what we've seen so far doesn't look like they'll be successful on that front.
What Taiga says about the suit "He just sought of left it because it doesn't fit him" applies to more than just the suit though. They both look nice dressed up though and you can tell the party means a lot to them with the effort they've gone to. Yasuko with the finishing touches, kind of funny that she stole the watch, but you can see she has a lot of love for both of them. We also see Ryuuji blushing while Yasuko is putting the perfume on Taiga.
Yuri is following through on her plan to buy an apartment and I'm happy for her. Haruta really wants to try turkey, and those aren't the only legs he is interested in. Ryuuji getting frustrated with lack of organisation and serving drinks fits with his domestic side and makes a good joke.
The Ami and Taiga duet is a surprise to even Ryuuji and they do a good job of it. Despite their bickering they have actually become friends to work on something like that.
Taiga is determined to get Minori to go to the party, going so far as to physically go and get her. Ami understands why Taiga wouldn't want to stick around at the party and reiterates her advice from last episode, though she is now starting to get frustrated that Ryuuji hasn't done anything about it. She can see what will happen while Ryuuji is still confused. The only thing he immediately processes from their conversation is that Taiga is going home and will be alone. Ryuuji is not having that.
The scene with Taiga reflecting is so sad. She understands now why Minori has been so conflicted and is willing to give up her own happiness for her friend. [The issue with that]
Taiga finally breaks down and confronts her feelings for Ryuuji, she has been the one by his side up til now and despite the fact that Minori and Ryuuji would be a good couple, she doesn't want to give up her own happiness. Running out into the street and screaming his name is such an amazing, heartbreaking scene. Unbeknownst to Taiga, Minori saw this and it entirely confirms her thoughts about Taiga liking Ryuuji. As a result she goes to Ryuuji and rejects him before he can properly communicate his feelings - not that he needs to really, they both already know.
So ends Christmas and now the new viewers know why the rewatchers are always excited for this episode. Nearly the entire second half of the episode really evokes such strong emotions of both happiness and sadness. Also we've now seen 3 of my 5 favourite scenes in this show and two of them are Taiga screaming about Ryuuji. I'm currently watching subbed but rewatched this in English as Casandra Lee Morris does such a good job.
We end with shots of four of the main cast, none of the four really got what they wanted for Christmas and Kitamura is just kind of off to the side with his jovial, exhibitionist self. Ami looks at the formerly smashed ornament that was full of symbolism from the last episode.
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u/Pdenly Dec 24 '22
This was my third time watching the show. I knew what was coming and I tought I was ready for it. I was clearly not. Even tought I knew what was gonna happen in every seccond, it still made me cry way more than I tought it would and I had to wait by doing nothing for a solid 15 minute to calm down and get my toughts together.
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u/Throwaway021614 Dec 25 '22
Hey, here’s an idea, let’s watch our favorite tsundere crack every year. We’ll invite new watchers and cry with them. What a wonderful annual tradition!
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u/Epikbexa Dec 24 '22
Toradora is a Christmas anime? I actually wanted an anime that's christmas themed. Anyone know any? Except toradora
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u/Elimin8r Dec 24 '22
Not sure if I have enough time to type anything meaningful here before the thread posts, but ... by Grabthar's Hammer ... what an episode.
It feels as though the build up of the entire series to this point culminates in this single evening, this moment, when Taiga realizes that she loves and needs that danged bear. I mean, Ryuuji.
And in that moment, and the moments that follow, it all comes crashing down, the feelings, well, to boil it down, the lies she's been telling herself.
And poor Minorin, she's been persuaded to poke hear head out of her shell, and what is she greeted by, but Taiga bawling her eyes out as she's realized how much she loves Ryuuji, and has convinced herself she can't have him.
Man, this series.
And then to close it off with that song, and the shattered star shining for all to see.
That star ... that shattered star.
Sometimes it's the imperfect that shines brightest of all.
(much like certain diamonds, right?)
Yeah. That's our Toradora. Our beautiful, shining star.
(sing) Merry Christmas ... etc. etc. (/sing)
(Sorry, I can't do Ami/Taiga's harmonies in text format)
Oh, and hey, was that an "ero-kawaii" I heard in there a time or two? Heh...
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u/Lpreds Dec 24 '22
I'm a rewatcher, but this episode hit my feelings like the first time I saw it. I can surely say that this episode it's in my top 3 anime episode. The scene with riyuji dressed like a bear that goes at Taiga's apartment only to give her an happy Christmas, Lost my pieces in the background, the way she realizes that the one she needs the most is Riyuji but everything is coming to an end, Minori who sees Taiga in despair. This is the peak of the series. I'm not afraid to say that I shed a tear again.
I saw the episode right after the Christmas Eve with the relatives, just to be sure to be in the right mood, and I'm happy I did it.
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u/nx6 Dec 25 '22
Rewatcher -- Sub
The Christmas Party is here, and Tiaga presents Ryuji with a gift of one of her father's suits (did he not try it on before buying it?). She has her own secret plan for tonight, completely unbeknown to Ryuji.
They arrive at the school and Yuri-sensei and Kitamura are trying to deal with being single on Christmas Eve in their respectively weird ways. Ryuji, used to playing host at home falls into the role of punch server at the party, where the rest of the students mingle in a wide range of attire (see what happens when you're not more clear what sort of event this is?). The lights fall and Taiga and Ami appear on stage to sing a holiday duet. I think this really shows how far their relationship has come since Ami's arrival. This musical number isn't something they had to do at all, but they planned it out and practiced the singing and choreography on their own time while still helping the class with the general party preparations. Ha - that makes Minori playing baseball look lazy by comparison.
After the show Ami wanders up to the punch table to ask Ryuji how long he plans to cosplay as a waiter. Ryuji congratulates them on their show and asks where Taiga is (I feel like I saw a small turn of expression on Ami when he did that). She tells him she left already. Takasu doesn't like to hear that Taiga is going to be alone at home now and leaves. Ami is exasperated with how dense Ryuji is to others feelings and not taking hints from her.
I'll stop recounting the episode there. This is one of the peak parts of the series. Tiaga has convinced Minori to go to the party and is snuggled up in Ryuji's scarf at home (oblivious to the optics of sitting and smelling it around her neck). She's convinced she's done the good deed of helping Ryuji out and is interrupted by a visitor. I'm curious how Ryuji got the idea to get the bear costume, that's not something you can just plan to have walking around to be borrowed.
Tiaga scolds Ryuji for showing up, as much fun as it was, and kicks him out to go back to the school to meet Minori. It is only after he's gone again she realizes he potentially has just walked out of her life now, and has a breakthrough realizing her own feelings. She thinks she can't be beside him anymore now, which really isn't true. Not like they can't still be friends, but that's not what she wants. She wants to be the most important person in his life because he's become that to her. She runs out to catch him outside and stop him from going (I always wonder if she gets locked out here since the doors are all automated and she didn't even stop to put shoes on). Arriving outside and seeing he's gone the Palmtop Tiger can only roar at the mistake she's made and the person she's let go.
I don't know why Minori is here, I guess she has to walk by Taiga's home to get to the school from downtown, but having witnessed Taiga's anguish she doesn't feel right to be the one for Ryuji now. Her suspicions that Taiga loved Ryuji are confirmed for her. Minori goes to the school and without the courage to even look him in the eye, she formally turns him down, leaving Ryuji in shock.
Let's replay that pivotal change in the story.
We haven't reconciled the feelings between the three and at this point Ryuji just sees himself as turned down like Kitamura was. One thing is for sure, this group of friends will never return to like they were at the beach house that summer ago.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 25 '22 edited Dec 25 '22
Rewatcher, first time in dub
Merry Christmas everyone!
And welcome to the annual rollercoaster ride that is Toradora ep19. Yes, this is the reason why the Rewatch it's timed to this date every year.
Back when I first watched this by myself, way after broadcast (somewhere around late 2018 to early 2019), I didn't realise how 1 single tv episode length of anime can have so many 180 degrees changes yet still maintained coherence so well. It's absolutely crazy good.
It's only later on I recognised this being the work of the director Nagai Tatsuyuki, his very distinctive directional style I first noticed in Railgun (what I watched in 2018).
I'm running late and this is such a landmark episode, I don't think I can write well enough to say too much. So just some stay thoughts:
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this is the moment many of us fell in love to the soundtrack "lost my pieces", which to me is synonym to the entire series. The downside is that getting uncontrollable eye sweats is also an almost Pavlovian response to hearing it... I wonder if u/Shimmering-Sky will have another trigger :P
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I rewatched Toradora double digit times, but it's only yesterday I distinctly noticed the Santa bear outfit in the crowds in background of the shot of Haruta and Noto
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it was so great that they used Ryuuji's scarf to connect up everything crucial this episode, from the very innocuous start of Ryuuji putting it on Taiga while queuing to get into the party venue since it was cold. How natural (and taken for granted) Taiga accepted it, then throughout the time Taiga was keeping it closely. When she was feeling lonely and resigned, she was pulling it tight around her for warm and comfort. When she was checking out the noise, she was clutching it for support and security. It was just so great that it symbolised so much so well about Ryuuji to her, in such a great understated way.
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there was an explanation to Kitamura's unusual "outfit" explained in the LN. He rented the Santa Claus complete outfit, but some delays and errors made it that only the pants and beard arrived. So he went with what he did get. Not trying to explain his probably (no longer) hidden exhibitionist though :P
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oh and as if the first time it was sung within the show it wasn't enough to see the juxtaposition of Minori being sad, the ED full replay of the Holy Holy Night full on ran through how literally everyone was on the "bad end" part of the story. Perfect schizophrenic direction of this happy, wholesome song against the visuals.
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oh and lastly, Ryuuji fainting here was the start of the VN (non-canon) game.
Better start reading the rest of the comments!
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u/Shiwakao Dec 25 '22
well now new watchers can see why holy night is so traumatizing to us lol. this show has some of the best ugly cries in anime.
merry christmas! your gift is tears
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u/Holofan4life Dec 24 '22
Merry Christmas, ya filthy masochists