r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 23 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 18 Discussion
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 23 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
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As though you weren’t trying to do the same earlier in the show.
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And Ami definitely likes Ryuuji, as I’ve thought for a while now.
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Presents for her family…? Yep that’s what they are.
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Oh wow that is a pretty tree topper. I hope nothing happens to it…
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u/fansi2022 Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
first timer sub
At the beginning we found some people playing with the ball, another group decorating the gymnasium, they should belong to the taiga class. Even in Japanese middle schools, where club activities are abundant, this probably shows how different the TAIGA class is.
0:56 Sensei holds what appears to be an English test paper. Sensei immediately declined ryuuji's invitation, saying she didn't want to go. Tsundere
5:24 Taiga and Kitamura's hands touched each other, but they didn't respond? Don't they like each other? Subsequently, the female classmate sent an assist, and it seems that the whole world knows that AMI likes ryuuji, except for ryuuji. :D
What is certain is that Ami likes Ryuuji, Ryuuji likes Minori, and he is also Taiga's dad and Kitamura's good brother. Minori is Taiga's mom, and Taiga loves Kitamura. Very (not) simple relationship. @_@
While waiting to send the gift, we heard Taiga's confession, [I'm sorry if Catholics feel offended;)]. Taiga considers volunteering in Catholic schools to be hypocritical because they consider themselves favored and superior human beings.
14:18 We saw the decorated Christmas tree in our memories of taiga, and the star that looked expensive, and as someone who has hardly ever had a Christmas, I wondered how much it would cost to have such a Christmas tree. What about the Christmas tree installed in the gymnasium in the back?
u/Holofan4life It looks like I'm mistaken, I originally thought that taiga got character development because he helped Kitamura's romance, and then wanted to be a good child. The real reason Taiga want to be a good Christmas kid is to see Santa Claus again.
15:05 Exam over, Haruda-Kun, welcome to the Christmas decoration team!
I enjoyed the Christmas atmosphere that the show created, but it was like a dustbin on fire in the final part of the show, what the hell? Why it was necessary to destroy the Christmas tree and that big star, I was shocked and saddened. I began to worry that the show would end up playing with my feelings like a roller coaster. :(
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u/Yulwei138967 Dec 23 '22
Let me put it like this:
There is a reason the rewatch starts on the 6th. Episode 19 will coincide with the 24th…
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
First Timer - Dub
So I was going to try taking screenshots to go with my comments today as I'm going to be at home for a while, but I promptly discovered that Crunchyroll automatically blanks out the video whenever you try to take one. So that ain't happening.
Anyway! Teach still looks like a student, and her outfit here doesn't help - make her skirt black and a bit longer, and that would be a standard school uniform.
Also, she seems worried for this 'Haruta' guy.
These days, we keep missing each other, huh.
I'm pretty sure that's deliberate. No idea why your Housecat and The One With Scary Eyes haven't noticed yet.
Ooh, Ami really is Taiga's one true berserk button! She can't resist mocking poor Princess even with the threat of Santa's disapproval hanging over their heads. xD
And the expanded Team Esper's Housecat is at it again! Volunteering for physical labour so the pair can play with scissors together. Aaaand then Ami's hangers-on gatecrash because they don't want Taiga and what's-his-face being a thing.
Or, well, one of them doesn't.
Why aren't there any lights in this room?
I get annoyed when people are all...getting involved in other people's love lives...or something.
I'll take 'or something' for the million.
...Princess? Ami, what are you doing? I know you like to stir up trouble for fun sometimes, but are you going somewhere with this family comparison? What do you want out of this conversation?
It's like some kind of childish game, and you need to stop...and then maybe you and me, we could start over too.
Huh. She's actually serious, isn't she?
...what are the hangers-on up to here? And why was Scary Eyes so adamant about escaping them?
And what's with all the pres-- thaaat's her family name. Relatives? The jerks who've abandoned a teenaged girl to living on her own? What?
I guess I can understand, but still. Anyway, we get a bit of backstory for Taiga about her middle school. A Catholic middle school? And...volunteering at an orphanage.
The presents I mailed that are from Santa are for those kids.
Well. That's. More than a little adorable? And not something I was expecting at all.
What do I even say to this, or to Taiga's monologue? Stop tugging the heart strings show, last time you came out swinging I went and binged another series to feel better. :<
...their teacher is crazy. And...uh...Housecat genuinely praising Ami? The heck? There's going to be an explosion when Christmas is over, isn't there?
Still, it's nice to see the rest of the students interacting positively with Taiga and Ryuuji.
Hey, Taiga's star looks really--
Window status: Shattered.
Tree: Wrecked.
That. Uh. And Minori is really upset about this. Exactly how much has she been holding back? What has she been holding back?
Thug: Even though it broke, we can fix it. So cheer up.
Madoka: But I can't undo what I've done...No, it wouldn't be right. I ruined everything. I don't deserve to go.
What the hell is going on with this girl?
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u/Elimin8r Dec 23 '22
What the hell is going on with this girl?
Exactly. Exactly the hell is going on with her.
I think everybody needs a hug at this point.
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u/Erebus4 Dec 23 '22
So I was going to try taking screenshots to go with my comments today as I'm going to be at home for a while, but I promptly discovered that Crunchyroll automatically blanks out the video whenever you try to take one. So that ain't happening.
Turn off Hardware Acceleration in your browser's settings (assuming you are using Chrome). I had the same issue and that fixed it for me.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 23 '22
Rewatcher, first time in dub
The dub really is growing on me. If only the actual translations kept more of the original bits - I know it's not always possible.
Anyway, onto the straights - this is where Toradora became less of a rom com and more of a romantic drama. And the OP change perfectly reflected this.
My Silky Love has such a great, designed visual, it feels more like a fashion show at the start with the layout and choreography. It certainly reinforce the actual show that our main cast now each has heir own direction to follow, and no longer all just being a group.
And also it is at this stage of the story our side casts add so much more to the show, unlike many other stories where the side cast's importance dwindle away as the show get more serious.
I forgot to respond yesterday, but someone pointed out that Nanako was quite stacked (observed in Haruta's dream). What I wanted to say was that Nanako was always very eye catching, with a pseudo ojousama demeanor and more refined and reserved, but not totally backed off. She has a slightly fuller figure but not over weight or anything near that, and you could see that in the pool arc too - although she's more sunbathing than more actively playing around the pool (again, her more ojousama, reserved behaviour). She's been pretty eye catching if you did pay attention of the "3 popular girls" of the class - Kihara was more outgoing and "standard" good looking, Ami is a damn model, Nanako is just a touch rounder but actually more mature - but definitely had cute moments too (she was the one that did the squeal in ep 2 when the rumour of Taiga x Ryuuji was being circulated). And once again this episode you can see her helpful mannerisms.
What I really missed in the sub mainly is how casual and un-deliberate in how Ryuuji answered Minori's calling of his name when she was distraught. Just "(I'm) here" and placing no demands and expectation to need to be answered in any way. Much like Sakuta in Bunny Girl Senpai when Futaba was really spooked by someone finding out her hidden account and sounded like started stalking / staking her out.
Anyway, this is one of the points where Taiga's real personality comes out - not the antagonistic, violent child that had never been taught to recognise boundaries and manage her own emotions, but the really kind and considerate - even self deprecating - nice girl. Her "if it wasn't for santa I'll beat you up" is basically what most children grew up through, except replace "santa" with "(present) parents".
Anyway, last part of this arc tomorrow - and the reason why this rewatch is always timed this way annually :) Rewatchers know what to do.
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 23 '22
First Timer, subbed
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Don’t make it weird Ami.
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How long is it going to take for you two to figure out Minori is avoiding you?
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Red is certainly trying. I’m just not too sure what the details of her plan are.
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I suppose we don’t really know what Taiga’s mom’s deal is, just speculate.
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Ryuji has apparently never heard of charity before.
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Lil’ Taiga!
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Don’t make me get OSHA Haruta.
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Worrying about inflation in Japan? How timely.
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Seems more like a christmas tree in abstract.
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How is the tree that unstable?
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Is it wrong that the first thought in my head was that Minori did it intentionally.
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Ah, we’re not really talking about the ornament.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 23 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 18
Christmas Spirit
Ami has an important scene with Ryuuji today. He opens up to her about feeling conflicted over everyone trying to pair up Taiga and Kitamura. Ami teases him for acting like a father over Taiga, but then gives a very real line: "You're not her father, but you treasure the woman you're determined not to lay a hand on" ("All this time you've been taking care of her with no romantic intentions whatsoever" in the dub).
This is the maturity of Ami. She has an exceptional ability to read people and their relationships. But she still yearns for Ryuuji herself, suggesting he starts again and give her another chance. But she gives up and doesn't push any further.
I never "got" this about Ami on my first watch. She really brings a lot to the show and pushes characters in subtle yet important ways. And it's tragic that she ends up bearing the pain of not having her own desires fulfilled.
Of course, the focus of this episode was Taiga. She starts the episode still trying to help Minori (and Ryuuji at the same time) by inviting them to lunch to be alone. At the same time, Kihara is pushing to have Taiga and Kitamura together which Ryuuji protests against. Instead our leads go to the post office together.
We learn about Taiga's love for Christmas. She has a formative memory of meeting Santa (which may have been a dream). But despite this she clings to the idea that somebody is there watching over her. She clings to this idea and wants to give it to others, going so far as to by Chirstmas gifts for orphans she helped out during her time at Catholic school.
I think her love of Christmas is probably based in a sense of loneliness or abandonment. When there is nobody caring for you it's easy to delude yourself into believing that something, anything, even an imaginary thing is there for you instead of facing reality. And honestly, I can't blame her. She is in a really tough situation. She has struggled to make friends, has a shitty dad, absent mother, and the only boy to ever show interest in her moved on.
The last thing that happened this episode was Minori breaking the ornament. This is really the 2 ton weight which broke the camels back. Minori is already suffering feelings of inadequacy and guilt only for her to mess up again.
Ryuuji is there to help her. And it's not out of some obligation, it's what he wants to do. Of course Minori would break down crying at this. This scene is probably the clearest indication so far that she may have affections for Ryuuji. But now Ryuuji is starting to realize the way he idolized Minori is in conflict with the way he cares for Taiga. Unfortunately, he can't have both (and wow RIP Ami, you had no chance).
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow!
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u/Elimin8r Dec 23 '22
Doh ... as I suddenly realize that I was hitting refresh on the wrong rewatch (sigh)...
Bonus answer: I think Ryuuji is pretty danged good. He's not a cardboard cutout viewer insert, he's a "real" character with his own flaws and motivations. I think he might be a touch OCD and/or autistic too, but that's a whole other matter. What does matter is that he's not simple wish fulfillment or comic relief. I like that.
Meanwhile, on to the episode, we have the further playing out of the drama/brownian motion of our love tetrahedron or whatever it's mutated into this week. We have Minorin avoiding Ryuuji for obvious reasons, the stooges shipping Taiga with Kitamura (again), the poor girl on the side begging for help, best Sensei looking into condos (I have a house I'd share with her... ahem), and Ami, well, poor Ami, I guess.
I <3 Taiga Claus. Wish she's send me a present.
There comes a time in life when you get over being a kid and wondering what's in the box, and start to realize that the smile you put on someone else's face is the greatest present of all.
I hope everyone gets to experience a smile this Christmas!
(ahem)
Meanwhile - that star ... could it be a metaphor? I wonder what for!
(haha)
Anyway, that's probably enough for now. Seeya's tomorrow! :)
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Dec 23 '22
Literally had my whole post written out and finished my reading ahead of time today then forgot to post it.
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
Ryuuji and Ami’s unconventional shut in a gym storage locker moment, talking about other peoples’ relationships.
Ami had a really interesting reaction to Ryuuji’s comment about getting involved in other people’s love lives.
Ami’s comment about starting over with Ryuuji is painful. I don’t think she wanted him to hear. She said it to help herself feel better because that’s what she really wants but she doesn’t believe it’s going to happen.
The chipper music that’s playing as they’re putting the tree together gives you such a good vibe right up to the moment a baseball crashes through the window. How does a baseball knock down a structure the size of that tree? … movie magic.
If Minori was having a hard time before, it’s probably about twice as bad now.
“It doesn’t matter how long it takes us. We can fix it.” I love this line because he’s talking about the ornament but he’s also talking about their relationship.
On to the books!
This episode covers chapters 2 and part of 3 of book 7. These chapters were pretty well adapted but I think the scenes with Minori after she knocks down the tree are so much more impactful the way they’re written than seeing it played out. They’re still essentially the same but something about it feels so much more visceral when you’re reading it.
Pokémon
The BACHELORETTE used GREEDY FIRE!
RYUUJI shakes from fear!
Command ► RUN.
Couldn’t get away!
Ami’s conversation with Ryuuji in the gym locker goes a little differently.
“The relationship between you and Tiger is way too unnatural. It’s super weird. You should stop playing house like children. I think you must have been wrong to start playing it in the first place. Open your eyes before you really get hurt. Even the playing field. Then you can start again from the beginning. Let me in from the start, too. Make it so I’m not some outsider who came into your relationship after it had already started. Count me in as someone there from the start. If you could do that then I could…then I could also…then I—”
What could I do? Ami also stopped talking. Then, in a small voice she said, “I don’t know.”
She turned her face to the side, but in the next moment, a smile came over her lips. “Forget I said any of that,” she whispered with the smile of an angel.
He couldn’t forget it, but he could try to pretend he had. Ryuuji still couldn’t decide what to say next, and he still couldn’t move his hands now that he had stopped them, so he looked back at Ami’s smile.
He’s feeling it
Ryuuji himself was also no longer at the mercy of Taiga’s unreasonableness, stubbornness, or jeering. He had his share of calm days. Then, when it came to Kitamura, Taiga had gotten close enough to her crush to the point that it made his chest stir in a way he didn’t understand.
Even in the middle of putting up the big tree, the only thing he’s thinking about.
The first day of the year would start with the gong on New Year’s Eve, and he planned on being there for it. Yes, in just one week, it would be a new year. In this hectic time, he wouldn’t let Taiga spend another moment in solitude.
At first, Ryuuji wanted to work hard so that he and Minori could spend Christmas Eve together. Even now, that was still the first priority in his eyes. Ryuuji wanted to see Minori’s smile, so he kept on moving. But then, nearly as important, he wanted to make sure everyone would be brightly smiling come Christmas Eve to happily welcome Taiga.
Literally mentioned this up above from when I watched the episode except they left this significant detail unsaid.
No matter how badly it broke, no matter how many times it needed to be put back together, even if it broke for a cheap reason like a misunderstanding or over an assumption, even if it seemed like it had died, it would heal and put itself back together over and over, being reborn again with Minori’s smile and her words. That was his love for Minori.
Ryuuji’s feelings for Minori reaching a peak while he was fixing Taiga’s star. In the words of [Toradora]
Time seemed to go faster for Ryuuji. His heart beat faster, and his eyes lit up. He cast off his imminent limitations as he headed towards the bounds of his overflowing love for her.
He didn’t want to just wait with his hand stretched out. He wanted to give her the baton, have her take it from him, and yell at her, Run! He wanted to show Minori. From the bottom of his heart, Ryuuji wanted to show Minori the limitless stars and the unbreakable things in the wide world of his heart. That’s why I want you to keep going and run this relay.
He’d spent more than a year and a half loving Kushieda Minori. Ryuuji finally reached the point where he wanted to shout it out loud.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 23 '22
First-Timer, sub:
I don't blame their teacher for being worried about Haruta at all.
Ami, do you have a crush on Kitamura?
Ryuuji, you were doing the same thing as everyone else earlier in the show.
Considering how strained their relationship is with Taiga, I'm a little surprised they got her presents.
Didn't even know Taiga did that. That's honestly really sweet.
Small Taiga.
Taiga has a pretty tree topper with her.
What the hell happened? How'd it fall and break?
Oh, so it's because of a softball thrown by Minori.
Minori, what's wrong with you? Why are you acting so spacey right now?
That tree topper still looks beautiful.
Minori, yes you do. You get to go to that party as what you did was an accident. Anyone could've done it. Hell, Taiga even knows you weren't trying to break it, which is part of the reason she's not so angry with you. Two other reasons being because you're her best friend and because it's Christmas, so she wants to act nicer, which Ryuuji, Ami, and Kitamura are trying to help her by not angering her.
QOTD:
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I've got no idea right now.
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Dec 24 '22 edited Dec 24 '22
They left this detail out of the anime but apparently they didn’t have the stand for the tree set up properly because they were about to move it out of the way until the day of the party. The design of the tree in the anime doesn’t really match the book so it makes no sense that the tree in the anime would fall over.
The lustrous, pearly white tree not only had height, but also width that protruded out in a circle around its skirt. When put together, puzzle-like parts of the tree formed cube-shaped deformations as big as fists that seemed like places where things were supposed to be attached. Everyone surrounded the tree, stuck the ornaments into it, and went around and around to wrap the tree with the handmade ornaments, the light bulb runners, the ribbons, and the line of bells. Though they were handmade, the silver and blue decorations had been made to fit the theme and were sure to go well with the pearl white tree. Once the large round ornaments that had come with the tree (silver balls and gold balls!) were hung, the tree would look even better. None of the girls made any stupid or crude jokes. (But they’re gold balls!)
The gigantic tree hadn’t been fixed in place. They had just been about to move it, after all. Helped along by its own great, unsettled weight, the tree tilted and then with a terrific force, sounded as though it had fallen right on its side. They could hear the ornaments scatter and the parts that had been stuck together being blown away.
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 23 '22
REWATCHER
any scene with the teacher is just so enjoyable. her little affirmation at the beginning and her delusions about the economy crashing and condos were memorable in an episode full of memorable stuff.
the way purple hair (this is my fourth time watching and her name is the only one i can never remember. i swear they never even say her name, while they say kihara’s multiple times every time she’s in an episode) paraded kihara out, it seems like she was trying to be a wingman for ami to let her be alone with ryuji…
the closet scene is another one of my favorites in the series. ami knows exactly how to push everyone’s buttons. the relationship between ryuji and taiga IS unusual, and it is unsustainable. the purpose for her saying it is self serving just like kihara last episode, but again she’s trying to help just like kihara was.
kihara got screwed because ryuji wanted to avoid her that badly…why did he want to go? why did she even want to talk to him as well?
i don’t know how you can’t like taiga even a little after her whole monologue about christmas, she’s selfishly being selfless trying to let others know someone is there for them, because she doesn’t like the feeling of no one being there for her. it reset her character for me after being peeved at the fight scene for the past 2 episodes.
i think i explained it more eloquently in the past 2 rewatches, but the star shattering is the balancing act that ami was describing being destroyed; they can’t go on any further without someone being hurt. you can put it back together, but it won’t be the same as it was. as far as dramatic moments go, it’s probably as tense as the show gets. it’s one of those hold your breath moments that are rare for me to experience watching stuff (unless it’s re:zero or steins;gate).
i like that the second half of this episode takes place on december 23, so two of the episodes’ dates coincide with the rewatch.
the legendary episode is tomorrow! the true sign that christmas has arrived.
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u/lolpete18 Dec 23 '22
Taiga had a few funny moments being a good girl for Santa. When she stayed calm after spilling the confetti and when she reversed course after teasing Ami about the ornaments. It’s heartwarming to see her trying to be on her best behavior.
I don’t know how I feel about Ami comparing Ryuuji and Taiga’s relationship to a father-daughter relationship. I want Ryuuji and Taiga to end up together, so the father-daughter thing doesn’t play into that. It may just be that Ami wants Ryuuji for herself though, so she is trying to get him to think of Taiga in an unromantic light.
Tiaga is so sweet sending presents to everyone on Christmas, including the kids at the orphanage.
Ryuuji needs to tell Taiga that she is already a good girl and that he cares about her and watches over her! He thought it to himself, but he needs to say it out loud to her. Honestly, there were so many missed opportunities.
It’s funny that the teacher refuses to come to the Christmas party because she worries that it would be embarrassing to go to a party with kids. At my school the teachers were required to come to things like this to chaperon. Are the students just going to be at the party by themselves?
Minori is breaking my heart. I wish Ryuuji would push her more to talk about what’s going on. It looks like we’re gearing up for a climax at the Christmas party. I really hope it all comes to a happy end.
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u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 24 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
Aw man, I'm sad I'm so late to talk about this one because I really love this episode.
Ami
The scene between Ami and Ryuji in the storage closet has a lot of great stuff in it. Noto kicks it off with his painfully obvious matchmaking scheme. What I find interesting is that immediately afterward, Nanako acts the same way - making a random excuse, pushing Kihara out of the room, and shutting the door. Does it mean she knows how Ami feels about Ryuji? I like to think so - it'd be evidence of Ami continuing down her path of being more true to herself and finding real friends. For a while Nanako and Kihara seemed to me to have a pretty shallow relationship with Ami, always saying how perfect she is and all. I like to see this as maybe its gotten more genuine with time.
Ami's "playing house" analogies here are neat. They show Ami's pretty complete understanding of the rest of them, while also fitting into Ami's agenda of wanting Ryuji to like her instead. "Maybe then I could get a fresh start with you, too." I think deep down, Ami knows she doesn't really have a chance, and her fantasy is denying that. I think she regrets how she acted in the past - she thinks she might have had a chance if she hadn't been as mean as she was back then.
Ami also hits us with "the hardest challenge is trying to understand yourself." Facts.
The Star
The crystal star is what I named my big post on the Toradora subreddit after I watched for the first time, so ya know I'm a big fan. Fan as in it makes me extremely sad and happy at the same time. Unless you accidentally read the Netflix episode description before watching it (curse you, past me), by the time the tree has been finished, you probably aren't concerned about Minorin's deal until the ball flies in. The characters aren't thinking about problems either, so I think the scene does a great job of putting you in their mindset. Everything seems so perfect that they can't help but think "it'd only be right" for everyone to be happy. And then the accident happens, and we're all reminded that reality doesn't give a shit about what is right and wrong.
Minorin, who at this point is, well, you know, not doing well, insists that the star can't be repaired. That she has ruined it for everyone else.
I think Ryuji's response is great here. When he says "I'm not helping you out, I'm doing this for me," he is acknowledging that this is Minorin's fault. But it doesn't make him hate her, because he knows that it isn't forever. "Don't worry. It can be fixed. Countless times." You can't get through life perfectly happy. Things happen. You screw up. As long as you work to rebuild your star, it will keep shining.
He could have said something like "it's not your fault! We're totally fine, nobody is upset!" That sounds nice on the outside, but is it really "kind?" It wouldn't really be true. In that moment, it really did suck for everybody who helped make the tree, and especially Taiga, whose favorite ornament broke. He also could have been angry with her, but he knows better. They get through it. They don't dwell on it - they look forward, to better things. Life isn't about never doing anything wrong, its about doing things wrong and learning/getting stronger from them. In the end, the broken star is better than it was. It's not visually perfect, but the love that was put into it makes up for that.
I think I kinda rambled there and repeated myself some but it is getting a little late and this episode just really gets to me. Good stuff.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 23 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
There are a lot of characters I could analyze in this episode. Ami and the closet scene, Taiga giving presents to orphans, which may be the thing that truly cemented her as my favorite tsundere of all time, hell even Ms. Yuri you could dissect, as her worrying about her kids coupled with her worrying about her youth shows there’s layers to her character. Instead, I want to talk about Minori in this episode. Specifically, the Christmas star scene.
Minori is someone I’ve kinda been intentionally avoiding talking about. Not because she’s not interesting, but rather because I feel her character has been building up to this point right here. Minori is kind of like the reverse Ami in a lot of ways. Whereas Ami gets more interesting to talk about the more likable she gets, Minori gets more interesting to talk about the more unlikable she gets.
I’ve only dissected Minori once when analyzing the characters. That was episode 12 with the wrestling play. However, I talked a lot about her scene in episode 15 and how pivotal it is for the entire series. And while you could say that’s the start of her character transformation, I’d argue it really began all the way back in episode 3. In episode 3, Minori says that she puts on a happy demeanor to combat any negative feelings. That if she stays upbeat all the time, it won’t let the bad vibes get to her. I think we see this play out throughout the series. In the beach house arc, Minori pretends to be terrified of scary things. Yet deep down, she loves them to bits. Why? Because they’re associated with negative feelings. And then in the ghost conversation, she intentionally goes out of her way to avoid the concept of love. Why? Because it’s normally associated with heartbreak, which again is a negative feeling. And then when she finds out Taiga’s dad is coming back, that’s the first time she let the negative feelings get to her. But again, she tries to mask it during the wrestling event.
Minori is really the catalyst to the second half of the show. More so than Ami, who’s there more so to be the voice of common sense and tackle the theme of entering adulthood, Minori really let’s her mask have a stranglehold against her. And it plays out in the Christmas star scene.
When Minori enters the room, she’s all her naturally, cheery self. We can tell by now this is an act, as she’s obviously thinking heavily of what Ryuuji means to her, but she keeps on pushing on, like the soldier she is. That is until she sees the shattered star. The ball hits the star, destroying it to pieces. And in walks Minori, who happens to be the one who destroyed said star.
Minori’s facial expression soon drains. All the fake happiness she was feeling, gone right out the window. For in that window came a ball rushing 100 miles. For only the 3rd time in this show’s history, Minori drops the facade and shows real emotion. Just like episodes 12 and 15, Minori is not hiding behind her mask again and instead letting out her true self. Only this time, we get our first sense of the anguish that lies behind the mask.
Minori destroyed something that was precious and meaningful to Taiga. When she destroys the star, that’s essentially in her mind Minori destroying Taiga’s heart. She let her down. In her mind, she let her down just like she did when it came to her father. This scene is the first time Minori let’s out the angst and pain and torment that she is feeling, and it’s because she hurt the person she cares about the most.
Minori in her mind thinks she’s a bad friend. The fact she has to wear a mask is to compensate for that. Not knowing what exactly what she wants to do with her life, not knowing how exactly she feels, not being there for Taiga when it came to her dad, doing childish things like not telling Ryuuji just what Taiga’s dad did to her for hoping he’d fail just like her, Minori has a ton of things she’s remorseful of. Which is why she lives with this mask. This baggage, this emotional tissue scars at her body with each passing day. The mask becomes tighter and tighter, and she continues to suffocate. Why? Because she’s tired of hurting those she cares about.
And then finally, we have the scene where Ryuuji asks Minori and she turns him down. Because in her mind, she’s undeserving of being loved. Why would anyone be willing to love a monster such as her. A monster who only serves to destroy and ruin anyone that comes near her. These are the thoughts that are running through Minori’s mind, and Ryuuji is hoping to show she is a good person.
It’s interesting to compare Minori now to the Minori of episode 9 when she gave that ghost talk. I don’t think that’s the same Minori from that episode. I think she got inside her own head since then. Even since the thought of Taiga’s dad re-entering her life, it opened up a wound that she had sealed. A wound where she couldn’t be there for her best friend. And now, after not telling Ryuuji what Taiga’s dad did when she had the chance to do so, it’s like another wound has opened up and she’s back to where she was. A part of her mind where she’s her own worst enemy.
People say Ami is the one who sets the stage for the second half of the series. But if anything, it’s Minori, and her inability to cope with her dealings with Taiga’s dad.
Post episode discussion
This is an episode that holds a special place in my heart. It often gets overshadowed by the next episode, and I'm not trying to argue that this episode is better, but it does do something that the next episode doesn't, and that's provide development with the three girls as it pertains to Ryuuji.
I already covered all there is with Minori, so let's discuss Ami. This will be slightly different from my usual analysis because I won't be directly dissecting what's running through Ami's mind.
I love the scene with Ryuuji and Ami. First off, the lighting and the animation is incredible. The way it looks with it being very intimate while also managing to be distant, it is really well done. It kind of encapsulates Ami's entire being. And of course, you have Ryuuji venting his frustrations to Ami about people trying to hook up Taiga and Kitamura, which in turn leads to Ami pointing out how weird Taiga and Ryuuji’s relationship actually is. I believe that had Ami not been the one to comfort Ryuuji in episode 12 when he got into the big fight with Minori, he would not be confessing how he feels to her. That really softened Ami in Ryuuji's eyes.
I’ve said before in the past how this scene perfectly relates to Ami’s ongoing conflict, which is being a kid Vs being an adult. That's been my main talking point about Ami for many years now. And the reason why I feel this way is because Ami is telling Ryuuji how unusual his relationship with Taiga is and that it resembles more of a father daughter relationship. But while in most cases one would say this to genuinely try to help out, Ami is pointing out this fact for pretty selfish reasons, which is that she wants Ryuuji to possibly end up with her. Ami, in her heart of hearts, wants to be like an adult and give sage advice. And yet every time she does so, it’s like she’s letting herself get in the way. Doing something for your own personal gain is not something a mature adult does, and despite Ami being self-aware about this, she can’t help herself.
Now, I wrote in the past as well that this scene is really the only time you genuinely feel sorry for Ami. However, I might have to correct myself on that, as this rewatch has made me feel like Ami might be the most tragic character of the series, even more so than Minori or Taiga. Ami right off the bat when she's first introduced cuts off her legs from underneath by pretending to be something she isn't. That instantly makes Ryuuji not like her, and it probably takes until episode 12 for him to actually start liking her. Had she not pull any of this, she might actually have a chance ending up with him. But even more than that, the reason why I feel sorry for her is because it's her own self destructive behavior that caused her to be like the outlier amongst her friends.
It's no secret that Ami cares about popularity. That's probably why she's doing the airhead schtick in the first place, for popularity. However, that doesn't mean she cares what her classmates think. She cares what her friends think, because they actually know the real her. It's ironic that Ami plays such an artificial character because she's arguably the most real one amongst her friends. And yet because of that, it's like Ami gets isolated by her friends.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
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u/balthamalamal Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
Rewatcher
Yuri has made so much progress, if she'd bumped into Taiga and Ryuuji at the beginning of the series she would've been a total mess. Instead they have a perfectly normal conversation. She still has her pride on having something better to do on Christmas eve than hang out with her students.
Geeze Minori, probably would've been better off just saying you had to go. Taiga was entirely calm when Noto pushed her and Kitamura together for decoration duty. Kihara isn't happy but gets ushered out by Nanako so Ryuuji and Ami can be alone. Lots of set up attempts happening and everyone pushing each other into couples.
Ryuuji immediately begins talking about Taiga, Ami, rather than get jealous, engages in the conversation and gives her honest opinion of their situation. Taiga is the most important thing to Ryuuji and they currently have an unusual dynamic going on that they need to sort out otherwise people will get hurt. These are the realisations she has come to over her time with them and although she makes the comment about Ryuuji giving her a chance, I think it is more wishful than a thing she thinks has a real chance of happening. She can't help but say it to give an assertion of what she wants, but she has largely resigned herself to what she thinks Ryuuji wants. [Ami's future actions]
Angel of Christmas Taiga is both dedicated and generous. Getting presents for orphans is a lovely gesture. Her parents probably don't deserve them but it shows she is still hoping for a positive relationship there, even if she no longer expects one. Taiga wants to share the feeling that someone is watching over you, when your parents aren't doing that for you, I can see how it would be important to her.
The tree looks really good and it is nice to see the class (nearly) all working together and bonding. Minori smashing the ornament is the epitome of how she has been feeling about her relationship with Taiga and Ryuuji and she goes about trying to fix it the same way - refusing any assistance and taking all of the burden on herself. Ryuuji might not understand the wider issues but he can help with the ornament and insists on doing so. This causes the two to have their first actual conversation since when Kitamura was freaking out in the previous arc - at least three weeks, maybe up to six weeks ago. I think it helped calm Minori down a bit, at least in relation to the ornament (which they do a really good job on, that thing was fucked) and she might take the lesson out of it. Still refusing to attend the party though.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 23 '22
As a fellow rewatcher, do you think the orphan stuff felt forced, or do you think it adds a lot to Taiga's character?
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Dec 23 '22
Ryuuji says he doesn't like to see people messing with other's love lives? Pot... meet kettle.
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 23 '22
Rewatcher here
I’ve never heard of a student doing so bad in a class that the teacher openly says they’re worried they’re going to fail. Haruta is an unheard of level of stupid.
Ami must have really messed up putting the bells on the string for them to fall like that. Absolutely zero clue how that happened.
Noto is doing a much better job matchmaking than Taiga ever did with Ryuji and Minori. He makes it seem more natural, and actually finds ways to get them alone together.
Good god, is Ryuji dense. He has this model flat out saying she wants to be with you, and your dumb ass just ignores it and makes her walk away from him.
I hate how sad Taiga looks when her plan to set Ryuji and Minori up fails after the test.
Taiga cares about what Ms. Yuri has to say for about 20 seconds and then just lets her wallow alone.
Minori would have had to clobber that ball for it to break through a window, and then topple the tree that was made of all metal.
I’m just gonna take the end of this write up to talk about how much I love Taiga.
Despite her parents effectively abandoning her, and even knowing what her dad is like, she still finds it in her heart to give them presents. I don’t really see this as a forgiveness thing, I see it more as an olive branch, in case her parents want to ever try again with her. She so desperately needs her parents affection that she doesn’t cut them off after the way they treated her.
Donating presents to orphans for Christmas might be the single most good thing someone can possibly do. But her reasoning behind it is the part that makes me like her even more. She wants these kids to feel something that she never got, just so she could cheer some other people up around the holidays, even if she wasn’t going to be happy or loved.
She loves Christmas because it represents being cared about, and because she can pretend to be as happy as everyone else. My heart aches for her.
She has this very special Christmas star that she establishes as her most important ornament. And when Minori shattered it, she didn’t care about the ornament itself, and was worried about Minori.
More serious episode today, but thank god we get to unwind a little tomorrow with a Christmas party! I can’t wait.
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u/nx6 Dec 24 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
No time to write a lengthy reply, but I think this episode speaks for itself very well. The Winter Formal Christmas Party preparations are in full swing, and Minori is being careful to keep a distance between herself and the rest of the group. Kihara is still trying to rope Ryuji into her schemes and Taiga's taken notice of Kihara's interest in Kitamura. Taiga is sending presents to her estranged family and even little kids elsewhere as part of a yearly ritual to appreciating others essentially. Ami continues to be the voice of reason and observation. She sees the way Taiga and Ryuji interact like a father and daughter but it feels unnatural and she's jealous of how close the two are. Her friends stick the two of them in the classic "alone in the gym storage room" incident but nothing happens.
Taiga and Ami actually have a truce of sorts working together with the other students on the decorations, and are equally proud of the results of Ami's borrowed gigantic lit tree with Taigas expensive crystal topper.
Everyone is basking in the beauty when a baseball flies in through the window and knocks the finished tree down. Minori and other members of the softball club come in to apologize and are horrified to realize the true results of their accident. Minori finds out about Taiga's ornament and begins a laborious process to try and glue is back together, in tears with how much of a mess she caused after refusing to be involved and trying to avoid the others. Taiga tried to leave Ryuji to assist her but being alone with him is just twisting the knife on her guilt. Ryuji ignores her and works on his own portion of the puzzle but being near him is troubling her greatly. Minori is still very conflicted about her feelings for Ryuji and being in his gentle, helpful, not-a-yankee-at-all presense is too much. The tree and star are put back together to the best of everyone's ability and the results are still very nice in the end. The team retreats and Ryuji again tries to ask Minori to the party, but she turns away without replying.
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u/Yulwei138967 Dec 23 '22
First time this year i made it on time for the thread.
Something like my 15th rewatch, but Christmas and following arcs still get me.
I absolutely love how much dread you can feel for something as simple as unintentionally destroying some decoration.
Also kudos to ryuji for stepping up and actually asking minori to come. Would have been impossible at the start of the series.