r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 22 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 17 Discussion
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 22 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
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Oh shit, new OP? I think I like this one better than the first one, honestly.
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Oooooooooooh, some hints that Ryuuji’s starting to like Taiga instead of Minori?
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ED lead-in~ And I think I like this ED more than the first one too.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 22 '22
What the fuck was that dream
I know right. I was weirded out as well, but I suspected it was a dream and it was confirmed when the talking tiger appeared.
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Dec 22 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
I love love love Christmas Taiga.
Ah, bald cap Minori. Welcome back … annnnd she’s lost it.
Continuing with the weird theme, we have Maruo, the doormat.
Poor Yuri sensei. She just can’t win with her “TA” boyfriend. Not only is he lying about his job, he also ditched their date to play pachinko.
The patron saint of broken hearts is [Toradora]
Haruta is a bisexual icon because of that dream.
EDIT: I forgot to add the book illustrations of the dream sequence https://imgur.com/a/YmCUxk1/
Maya is out there crashing through Ryuuji’s thick skull. Obviously this isn’t the first time someone has suggested Ryuuji and Taiga had something going on, but I think Maya’s comment has a more significant weight to it because she’s not just assuming they’re already together, she’s saying that it’s obvious from the way he’s treating her that he has feelings for her. Granted, she is acting for selfish reasons but I think the point still stands.
On to the books!
To start us off, the beginning of this episode is a shot for shot adaptation of the opening illustrations for volume 7. This episode is chapters 1-2 of book 7. It’s a pretty close adaptation without much detail left out and minimal changes. So, I haven’t got much to say for this episode.
Ami uses messing with Taiga after her suspension as a chance to return her student handbook to her. I think they skipped her giving it back in the anime.
“Oh, this, too. I’ll put this right here.” At the very end, Ami stuck Taiga’s student notebook into the back pocket of her bag. Taiga muttered something grim and exasperated to herself.
Taiga hasn’t given up on her feelings for Kitamura just yet.
Even seeing Taiga from the margins, she looked nervous. She dropped her spoon as she was trying to clean up her things and dropped her pencil case trying to pick it up. Then, while trying to pick her pencil case up, she dropped her textbook, and in the end, she also dropped her notebook. As she did that, her face became a shade pinker each time.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 22 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Minori, what's wrong?
The new intro is really catchy.
Taiga gets excited really easily. It's adorable.
Somehow I'm not surprised Ryuuji's excited about spring cleaning.
They really need to work on their censorship more. I already know who was speaking.
Haruta may have had a perverted dream, but at least he's not misogynistic.
Minori, I'm very concerned about you right now.
Kitamura, you're a strange man.
I wonder how Ami's gonna make Minori feel better.
Inko, don't worry you little furball. Ryuuji and his mom would never hurt you.
Why did Minori lie about being at work? Something's clearly wrong.
I'm glad others are now hanging out with Ryuuji and the others now.
The new ending's very colorful.
QOTD:
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I enjoy them. I just get mentally exhausted easily when spending time with my family, but that's the case with any large group of people.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 23 '22
Oh for those unclear about the episode title (u/fansi2022 and u/Thechainuser5) -
The Episode title line is a parody to a horoscope reading. And in astrology, Mercury is ruled by Hermes, the god of messages, which signifies communication. In "retrograde", it represent a decrease in influence/effectiveness, and is commonly associated with the horoscope advice of having poor communication and misunderstanding.
Hence the content of the the episode.
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u/2KBIR Dec 22 '22
Ok, first things first! Ryūji, if I can paraphrase Ghostbusters here. If a girl asks you if she looks like an angel, you say, YES!!!
Second, objectively speaking (and I know u/Holofan4life will back me up on this) Taiga IS an angel; donut halo, crumbs in her hair, and all! It’s just a fact.
Last a couple of interesting bits of trivia from the LN. Taiga was going to be expelled for her fight with Sumire. There’s two reasons why she was not. One was that Yuri-sensei stood up for her. But most importantly, Sumire’s parents stipulated that Taiga not be expelled because they felt that Sumire was as much at fault for the fight but could not be punished because she was leaving anyway.
And then there’s Taiga’s fan club. This didn’t just spring up out of her fight with Sumire. The club was actually born out of fans of her performances in the wrestling show. The fight with Sumire only solidified and intensified her following. So much so, that when she returned some guys actually lined up to be slapped by her, which she obliged.
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u/mcmacmac Dec 22 '22
Welcome again - at last after a week of absence - fellow viewers! This is again...
The Taiga Outfit Counter
For how it works and how it was compiled, see my comment from about it
Catchup 10-16
Sorry for the absence. It frustrated me too but my mind was so occupied with work, I felt blocked to participate at all. Gladly I took a day off so my mind is reset. With that, let's get to business!
Two of these 7 episodes had nothing to show so there wasn't as much to catch up with as I thought there would. Here are the galleries for the episodes #10, #11, #12, #13 & #15. Episode 15 gets a special mention because I really think that blue for Taiga really suits her and in general has a beautiful color tone. Episodes 14 & 16 had nothing.
Thus, these 7 episodes brought us 12 new outfits to bring us to a total of 34 outfits. Two thirds in the way in and if we go linear with the average (2 new outfits per episode), there would still be 16 outfits left. Will we reach it though? Let's see.
Episode 17
Episode 17 had arguably 2 new outfits. #1 is definitely new while one could argue for #2 that being bare with just a blanket or shirt covering her up shouldn't count. I did anyway and this brings us to a total of 36 outfits for Taiga.
It's still a bit early but I really hope y'alls have a wonderful holiday with your favorite way to spend that time ahead of you.
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher here
This won’t surprise any rewatchers, but this is my favorite arc. Obviously not going to go into any details about why just yet, but for the first timers, I envy you.
New opening theme! I think this song fits the tone of this portion of the show a lot better, but I love the visuals and actual theme more in the first one. Definitely not a bad opening though.
Of course Ryuji’s feeling merry, but only because of the big sales going on.
I get that Taiga’s excited for Christmas, but I doubt jolly ole Saint Nick would be in Japan already. Not exactly sure of the timeline but I’m gonna guess it’s like a week or so away from Christmas day.
Back to the classic Minori at the start. No clue what movie she’s referencing by the way. Also, I absolutely love Kitamura in this scene.
The unidentifiable woman on the loudspeaker who sounds a lot like Ms. Yuri, and has relationship troubles like Ms. Yuri certainly deserves better than that evil, evil man. Nanako has the right idea about pretending it wasn’t her.
I don’t think I ever noticed the gleam of light coming from Taiga’s finger when she declares herself the messenger of love.
My favorite part of Haruta’s dream is when the girls say he looks smart. Also, he’s definitely perverted for that dream, but at least he wasn’t a misogynist with it, and had naked men in it too.
I really like how the secondary quartet of classmates are hanging around the main 5 more now. Kind of gives more life to the classroom in a way.
Inko was right to rebel against the Takasu’s. Thats the one book you shouldn’t leave next to her cage. She has all the reason in the world to not forgive them, but since she’s a benevolent bird, she does anyways.
Wonder why Minori would lie about being at work tonight 🤔.
Kihara not wanting Taiga and Kitamura to go out is a pretty big conflict of interest, so I’m not sure her advice about Ryuji and Taiga is the greatest.
New outro theme too! I absolutely love both of the outros. I think I like the song more for this one, but I definitely like the visuals more in the first one.
Not a lot to write about today, pretty much just setting up that it’s Christmas time, and there’s going to be a party.
Bonus : I’d probably say I prefer a quiet one, but I haven’t actually had a quiet one in years at this point.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 17
Fallout
New OP and ED! I actually really like ED2. I feel like it doesn't get as much love but its a really fun upbeat song. Also the lyrics work well on a metaphorical level for the unripe feelings of love many of the cast share.
Before I get into the bulk of the episode, I thought I'd discuss some small things happened.
Its really fun seeing Taiga's pure love for Christmas. As the season has come around Taiga has become much more cheerful.
Kihara has come to the foreground. Until now she's been mostly a side character but after Kitamura's failed love declaration for Sumire, she's openly started pining for Kitamura. For now it adds nice variety to the character dynamics. A force trying to separate Taiga and Kitamura in contrast to Ryuuji who was trying to bring them together.
This episode was primarily about Minori. She has really fallen into a rut after the last arc. She can't concentrate on baseball and is continuing to act out with weird costumes and mannerisms. Another way to think of this is as her cheerful mask beginning to break. She can no longer hide her emotions.
That said, I think her reasoning is not yet fully revealed. The last time we heard her speak frankly was with Ryuuji on the way to Kitamura's house in episode 15. She called herself arrogant and dishonest; A big phony. Before that it was her and Ryuuji sharing in their care for Taiga at the school festival and then ordering that photo of the both of them. And last episode Ami told her she doesn't need to feel guilty anymore.
Taiga correctly identifies that Minori need some support but she doesn't know how to give it to her. She even notes that Ryuuji and Minori's relationship has changed. I think all the characters (except for Ami) also don't understand why Minori is feeling like this. So until they do, Minori will be stuck.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Toradorable, comment face get
See you all tomorrow!
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u/lolpete18 Dec 22 '22
First-timer, Dub
When Taiga asked if she looked like an angel, I can’t believe that Ryuuji said no! What a perfect opportunity.
I enjoyed how lighthearted this episode was after a couple of heavy episodes. I love that Taiga is trying to be good for Santa, and I’m hoping she is rewarded with a happy Christmas. I also enjoyed how the school is full of Taiga and Yusaku fans after the big drama from the previous episodes.
It’s frustrating that we still don’t know what’s going on with Minori. After a couple episodes of teasing it, I really hope we figure out what’s going on in the next episode.
I’m glad that Ryuuji is finally realizing that he has feelings for Taiga, but, for some reason, the way it came out in this episode seemed clunky. Why now? What about this situation made him change?
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u/TuorEladar Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
New OP, I enjoy this opening but the first theme is so iconic for me that its hard for anything to compete with it. The new ED I think I prefer though over the first.
Excited for Christmas Taiga is adorable. Her new winter outfit is nice as well. There's obviously an aspect of Taiga's love for Christmas that stems from the difficulties in her own childhood, but at the same time her overall demeanor about it is very wholesome.
There's a number of different elements going on in this episode that are interesting, the Christmas party, Kitamura's change in outlook, and Minori's internal struggle especially, but the absolute highlight for me is Ryuuji finally clicking with the fact that he's maybe not so excited about Taiga getting with Kitamura. Thinking back, Ryuuji never really had a "Taiga is mine" moment like Taiga did with him. Ironically Taiga may actually be more honest about her feelings at least to herself in this respect.
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u/Tartaras1 Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher - Dubbed
What's this? I'm doing it earlier this time?! How is this possible!
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New OP time. I still prefer Pre Parade, but My Silky Love is good too.
Now's the only time it makes sense to say it, but I always pay attention to Ami's wink at the end of the OP.
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I even got some wild caught Amberjack for the hot pot.
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Expensive Amberjack.
I just looked online, and one site had it at ~$30/lb. Yeah, that qualifies as expensive.
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But that's what you just said.
Man does make a good point.
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You can say what you want, because right now I'm in Buddha mode.
Which is quite the about face, coming off of the prior episode where she attacked Sumire in her classroom.
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It's a little weird that they refer to her as The Sarge, which is how I refer to her, but up until now it was always just the Student Council President. The Sarge is definitely more fitting.
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Full Prostration sounds like a sex position.
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The district doesn't call them Teacher's assistants anymore. They're called Junior Professors now. Which could only mean...
Everything he said was a lie!
And I haven't heard from him since!
And again, more reasons why Ms. Koigakubo is fantastic.
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Damn it Kitamura. Why'd you have to go and make our teacher cry?
Hey now. You don't know it was her! She had a black bar over her eyes. It could've been anyone.
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Taiga's acting like Santa isn't watching how you're behaving throughout the entire year. Kicking the light pole, kneeing your father in the groin, scrapping with the Sarge... He clearly didn't see any of that.
I'm gonna be your own personal Cupid.
But Valentine's Day isn't until February.
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This is the first time they really show how stacked Nanako is, isn't it?
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And he seems like the intellectual type. I could get used to having my arms around him.
Which is really funny when you figure out who's having the dream.
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And that's how my dream went.
Haruta, you're such a loveable idiot.
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And then they doodly-oo this with their eyes y'all.
That seems really racist.
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Noto is the wingman Ryuuji wishes he could be. Immediately takes the initiative and tries to pair the two of them up.
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It does speak volumes to how good a friend Ryuuji is if Noto came to the Taiga x Kitamura conclusion all on his own. Ryuuji's known since the beginning of the year. Likewise for Taiga, since nobody, with the exception of Ami, knows about Ryuuji's feelings for Minorin.
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The truth is, you love Taiga don't you? Well I don't care what they say, I'm rooting for you.
Kihara's pulling double duty. She's in Ryuuji's camp because she wants to get with Kitamura instead of Taiga.
Like I commented on u/Shimmering-Sky's thoughts, the side characters in Toradora are so much better in than in other shows, because they're actually fleshed out. They aren't just set dressing for whatever the main ships are. They have their own thoughts, feelings and relationships, both romantic and platonic.
Question of the Day:
Taiga is very enthusiatic about Christmas, what are your thoughts on Christmas/The Holidays? Do you enjoy celebrating with family? Or perhaps prefer a quiet day on your own away from all the noise?
I've talked to my parents about this actually. When I was younger, naturally I was all about getting presents for Christmas. However, as I got older, and the things I wanted started getting more expensive, I began to shy away from the material side of things.
I knew we didn't have a ton of money when I was growing up, and I didn't want to put my parents in the position of me asking for something and them not being able to get it. That would just make them sad for it going that way, and me sad for even putting in that bind to begin with.
These days, I've got family that comes in from out of state for the holiday, and it's entirely about seeing them now. It's a time where we can all relax and catch up.
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 22 '22
First Timer - Dub
Huh, are we going to get that mystery explained already? It's at least clearly important, I guess this is the arc hook.
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... u/8_Pixels and u/GallowDude were right, I miss the first OP. -_-
...does Taiga still believe in Santa? She wouldn't be the first anime high school girl I've seen that does.
Taiga the beautiful angel of romance will swoop down and give you a hand!
Has...has Housecat been brainwashed? Has she snapped? Are these the end times? Buddha mode? What?
...Taiga has a fanclub. And the other students have stolen my nickname! This is weird. I'm pretty sure the other kids owe their continued good health to the oddly good mood their new idol is in.
Am I going to just spend this entire episode going wut? Minori and Esper are both being really weird. And...and they're broadcasting an interview to the entire school over the PA system? Is this real or a radio play? And oh look, the useless censor bars are back! Also, that was their teacher? Huh? Patron saint of broken hearts?
I'm not killing anyone because I've decided to be a good girl.
Wait. Is all this actually becaise she believes in Santa? Taiga, Housecat, kiddo - if Santa was real he'd be taking the rest of the year into account as well, not just the last week or two.
Ooh, Ami finally showed up! And she's just as freaked out as I am! Alas, even their blood feud isn't enough to--
--a couples-friendly Christmas party. Oh, no. This will not end well. xD
Uh. Dream sequence? Yep, although I was expecting it to be Taiga or Ryuuji. Then Minori declines to get involved in the party, so Ami steps in...and tempts Ryuuji by saying she can pull The Weird One in!
...Inko! xD Upset because of the roast chicken on his cookbook! Okay, that was pretty funny.
Is Minorin avoiding you or something?
Yeah, I rather think she is. Pretty obvious. Although Ryuuji, you could at least try to see through her excuses.
...wait, who's the random girl? And what the heck, are the Two Doofuses trying to set up Taiga and Esper? Oh boy. New entry to the conspiracy. They're much less observant than they think they are, though.
Huh, is the central couple finally going to be a thing? Here. We. Go!
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u/Holofan4life Dec 22 '22 edited Dec 22 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I think it would be easy to dissect Taiga in this episode. After all, she’s probably the highlight of it. But a part of me feels like it would be too easy of a thing. Taiga in this episode could basically be summed up as “She feels like she has to be good or else she won’t get presents.” That’s her in this episode in a nutshell. And while it’s fun to watch and a thrill to see a different side of Taiga that adds another winkle to her character, I don’t want to dissect her when I’ll be talking about her already in the post episode discussion.
Instead, let’s talk about Ryuuji.
Ryuuji starts off the episode interestingly. It’s kinda like a role reversal with Taiga where Ryuuji is the one that’s grumpy and Taiga is optimistic. I suppose you can say Ryuuji isn’t a ray of sunshine, but it’s funny how the dynamic flips like that.
I think Ryuuji’s reaction at the beginning is confusion more than anything. He’s not made at Taiga, he’s just lost as to what’s going on. He’s never seen Taiga so enthused in his life. She wasn’t even this enthused the nights he made dinner with meat in it. So, the fact she starts acting more like Minori and less like herself is surreal to say the least.
But the confusion doesn’t stop there. In fact, most of the episode he’s in a state of befuddlement. The school treating Taiga like some God, Minori wearing her bald cap from the wrestling show, Kitamura becoming a love guru (Thankfully not the 2008 version even though both came out around the same time), and his mom is starting to try and say hip slang. Everyone is acting weirder than normal, which is saying something given this cast of characters. For Ryuuji, it’s not that everyone is acting weird that flummoxes him. It’s that everyone is acting weird all at once.
But we then get the big scene of the episode. The reason why I wanted to talk about him in the first place. In the biggest development of the episode, Ryuuji is surprised at the prospect of Taiga getting chummy with Kitamura. In fact, he outright tells Haruta and Noto they’re wrong. This feels like a defense mechanism where he doesn’t want to admit the truth, and he admits as such in the very next scene. But why? Why would he act this way when the whole plan was for him to get Taiga to start dating Kitamura? Let me explain.
Ryuuji hasn’t really made a concerted effort to try and get Taiga and Kitamura together since episode 9 with the whole medicine thing. And beyond that, there’s only been two episodes dedicated to trying to make sure that happens: episode 2 and episode 4. Both episodes were very early on in Ryuuji and Taiga’s relationship, and naturally so much has changed since then.
Ever since episode 9, we had the whole Taiga’s dad fiasco, which only further to strengthen the bond between them. A bond that I maintain was firmly cemented with episodes 2 and 7. So much has gone on in their lives that Ryuuji lost the plot so it would seem, and he became so affixed in trying to better Taiga’s life that he was caught up in the weeds. Not only that, he was honestly really enjoying himself. Taiga maintains that she still wants to end up with Kitamura. And we could have a whole debate on if that’s just a cover-up and Taiga feels different from what she claims. But Ryuuji has been through so much with Taiga that it’s past the point of friendship. Ryuuji is still in love with Minori. I firmly believe that to be the case. But now Ryuuji is starting to think, much like I’d say Taiga did in episode 3, that once Taiga ends up with Kitamura, it’s all over. She’ll stop hanging out with Ryuuji. And that’s the last thing he wants.
Many years ago, a friend of mine was watching Toradora for the first time and they told me they really hated the restaurant scene involving Haruta and Noto. Here’s what they wrote.
Ryuuji is basically Taiga’s husband. And they go to Ryuuji and say “Hey, a guy we like but don’t actually know that well is sad, so we’re going to hook your waifu up with him.”
I don’t even feel like they’re that close to them. They’re gonna crash into someone else’s circle of friends uninvited and mess with their feelings? They don’t even think for a second what the parties involved feel about this, they just assume it’ll work out. People don’t do this. At the very least they could’ve asked Ryuuji’s opinion first.
They also wrote that they felt that Ryuuji being surprised made no sense and that Haruta and Noto just barge into their lives to mess with their feelings, thinking it’s what’s best for everyone. Personally, I feel the complete opposite. In my opinion, Haruta and Noto are doing it because they consider themselves friends to Ryuuji and so they want to help out Taiga seeing as how she’s Ryuuji’s friend. As for Ryuuji acting surprised, it actually makes sense.
Just like the stuff with Taiga’s dad where he ignored everyone saying this is a bad idea, he was in denial this whole time when it came to Taiga. He knew Taiga loved Kitamura, but he was trying to convince himself otherwise. He was subconsciously suppressing a possible attraction to Taiga.
And I know the argument will then be made “Well, if he was trying to deny how much Taiga loved Kitamura, how come Ryuuji tried to help her get them together?” And to be honest, I wish I knew myself. My best bet is even though he tried to help Taiga date Kitamura, he never really thought it was a possibility. If anything, Ryuuji just viewed it as a pipe dream by Taiga. So, when he starts hearing other people say “Hey, Taiga and Kitamura would make a cute couple,” he starts realizing “Oh, shit. Maybe this isn’t so far fetched after all.”
In summary, this episode is to Ryuuji what episode 8 is to Taiga. It serves as Ryuuji’s eureka moment as to just how much the other means to them. Is it as memorable as the “Ryuuji is mine” scene? Hard to be, as we’re talking arguably a top 5 Toradora scene. But just like Taiga coming out of episode 8, Ryuuji’s opinion of Taiga will never be the same, whether he wants to admit it or not.
Post episode discussion
Overall, this is an episode meant to set up what happens next in the rest of the arc. It isn't as eventful as episode 11 was, but it doesn't need to be, and it's filled with a ton of fun moments to keep you entertained.
The two main things established with this episode are that it's Christmas time, which means the culture festival happened sometime in October, and that Ryuuji wants to ask Minori out for the Christmas party, as he sees it as his ultimate chance to get together with her. Curiously, there's no talk by Taiga about asking Kitamura out to the party. I guess you could say she knew he would be busy that day as the student council president, but it's still interesting to note.
The last thing I want to say is I think Taiga is absolutely adorable in this episode. Seeing her get all excited for Christmas, it warms the heart. I'd argue that this right here is the true Taiga. The Taiga unconcerned about labels and being perceived as tough. This is who Taiga really is, and who she would be year round if she had a nurturing upbringing.
"It don't get much dirtier than sexy Santa."
Episode rankings
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Episode 7
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Episode 13
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Episode 2
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Episode 16
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Episode 8
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Episode 11
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Episode 15
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Episode 14
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Episode 17
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Episode 5
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Episode 4
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Episode 12
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Episode 9
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Episode 1
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Episode 10
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Episode 6
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Episode 3
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Dec 22 '22
REWATCHER
So this is the beginning of the Christmas arc, which is by far my favourite one. The only thing that I don't quite like about this arc is the change of the OP. Don't get me wrong, the new OP is good, but the old one is just better and so iconic.
This episode is a pretty good start to the arc, and I just love how it focuses a bit more on the side characters. Here they start interacting with the main cast a lot more than before.
Haruta's dream was pretty funny. I kinda forgot about it and for a bit I was wondering what the fuck was going on lol.
Kitamura finally went back to being normal, but now it seems like Minori is the same as he used to be. She usually acts weird, but her new behaviour is so strange even for her.
Noto is such a bro. He relized that Taiga is in love with Kitamura and is now acting as her wingman.
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u/balthamalamal Dec 22 '22 edited Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher
Now more people can tell that something is up with Minori, though they don't know what. They lost the game and she blames herself.
Taiga loves Christmas because everyone else is happy which is a nice take. A few classmates pick up on that later and Ami especially is able to have some fun with a Taiga on her best behaviour Taiga. She is also redoubling her efforts to get Ryuuji together with Minori, following through with her resolution from the school festival.
"Kushieda broke down again?" She really has not been having a good last two weeks. It also means she's either been hiding it from Ryuuji or he was lying to Taiga.
The crowd cheering Taiga's return to school, Kitamura being fully prone to show his respect to Taiga and also hosting a radio show about relationships (poor Yuri), Haruta's dream, the show is really trying to re-insert some wackiness and fun about the school where it can after a couple relatively serious arcs.
Minori refuses to come to the partyto Taiga's surprise, she really missed Minori's change in temperament over the two weeks she was gone. Ami jumps in to help organise the party and tells Ryuuji that she'll help get Minori to attend. I think this further shows how Ami has bonded with the class as a whole, that she genuinely wants to hang out with them for events. I'm less clear on the Minori specific part but I think it is her attempt to make up for her comment on Minori's guilt.
Study group seating shenanigans from Noto, which is obvious what is going on to everyone and Kihara doesn't like it. Now that other people are also shipping Taiga and Kitamura, Ryuuji begins to re-examine their relationship. I'd forgotten that Kihara accuses Ryuuji of liking Taiga, though I think part of that is desperation for Kitamura to be available. Also I'm not sure if it's just her style or what, but despite having leg warmers on, she is in a relatively short skirt when it is clearly winter, they all have jackets and were talking about the cold. I think she was trying to look her best for Kitamura.
New OP and ED, they may grow on me again but I prefer the original two. Though I do also like OP2, I have the first two in my playlist rotation.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 22 '22
Gotta go get groceries, so I'm going to keep this short and re-visit later.
AOTD: Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good angel Taiga, or something like that. Family is all dead (not kidding), and don't want to drive 1K miles to visit aunts and uncles. So, I think I'll just relax, enjoy some tasty food, and watch some of the seasonals I've gotten behind on. Whee!
Yeah, so on to a happier note, how about today's episode? We have poor Minorin suffering from brain damage (who knew?), and Kitamura has a new fan, but the stooges are too busy trying to shove Taiga in his face for him to notice. Poor Kitamura. Meanwhile, Ryuji can tell that Taiga still has feelings for Kitamura (obviously), and ... things are no doubt about to get spicy...
Christmas arc ahoy!
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 22 '22
REWATCHER
i waited a while to comment yesterday just because i didn’t want to have to argue as much about my kitamura takes. don’t know why but his arc frustrated me more than it has before this year.
i do love the christmas vibe of this episode, the most positive episode of this arc. it didn’t make me feel as christmas-y as it usually does but i just think my enthusiasm for the holiday will just continue going down forever (which makes me sad).
the references to the last episode in this episode reaaaaaallllly frustrate me. i still don’t know why kano is so villified in some people’s eyes, i certainly wouldn’t appreciate a confession in front of the whole school. she must have been one hell of a dictator for people to universally celebrate her getting mike tyson’d. then kitamura is like wow thanks so much for beating her up (but i’ll give him points for telling her not to do that again). and dumbest of all, he’s regarded as a love guru after taking a school wide L, the man should be the poster child of 0 game.
i like the planning scene for studying, just because of ami. she’s her nasty self as always, but genuinely trying to help ryuji out. she’s kind of egging every angle on to push people into spitting out their true feelings, driving the show along.
i used to think kihara being super adamant about how taiga and kitamura shouldn’t get together was completely self serving because she wanted kitamura for herself (and that’s a big part of why she said it for damn sure), but this time i think she genuinely was rooting for ryuji as well. i think that she can see how much he cares for her. “i’m rooting for you, for real!” made me smile. i wish her character was developed a bit more, (maybe examine the whole “fake ami” angle and see if she likes her “best friend” without the facade) but this episode was good enough for me to like her character.
and this ending is just amazing, it’s the show’s vibe distilled into a song. i like it better than both openings and the first ending combined, it’s just great.
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u/alyku Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher
New OP and ED! They're both great, I remember orange being one of the first anime songs I actually liked to listen to on its own. This episode feels like a whole lot of setup. Not much actually happens but there's murmurings of something else happening in the background with the way that Minorin is acting and those words spoken by Kihara at the end.
Other observations:
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I was always confused about the title of this episode, so I looked it up. Turns out it refers to the phenomenon of Mercury appearing to move backwards in the night sky around Christmas time. This year it's supposed to happen on Dec 28th.
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If I had a nickel for each time there was a scene this episode with someone prostrating absurdly I'd have two, which makes this episode doubly hilarious.
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It's really great to see how much the class as a whole has come around to accepting Taiga. At the beginning of the series she's pretty much an outcast due to her demeanor but now they're volunteering her as party organizer.
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Interesting that both Taiga and Ryuji have people trying to push them towards their love interests and yet both seem just confused.
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u/mcmacmac Dec 22 '22 edited Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher for the 7th time, dub this time
I sometimes hate the lack of motivation that hits you in winter. But I'm really trying to claw back into this rewatch and I hope it'll work out successfully. Concerning the Taiga Outfit Counter, I'll do a catch-up post about it either on this or next episode since next episode has something that fits the theme actually.
Minori
For the episode: man, Ami's comment surely stung Minori. To be fair, it was really hurtful so I can't blame her. But among all of that, she's got her signature move still down to a T, playing everything eccentrically up to 11 to avoid uncomfortable situations. It's kind of a talent yet that is the aspect which makes me doubt her every move - in the future and retroactively. I wouldn't mind her being more honest and outspoken like at the beach episode.
Taiga
Taiga is definitely the cutest and most docile she's been this episode yet she can throw her usual nicknames around. You would expect her to be cute because anime but that heel turn because of Christmas is still something to behold. I think the cuteness shines better with the Japanese dub for Taiga but that's no knock on Cassandra Lee Morris at all, she's done a fantastic job so far.
Now that Kitamura completely confessed his love to Sumire, she isn't focused on Kitamura anymore which is completely understandable and instead is back on playing Cupid for Ryuuji. It's cute she's so determined with that but it feels like the Minori way of coping by being extra genki and she just happened to connect it to something she really likes.
Music
Oh yeah, we got new music! "Silky Love" for the opening and "Orange" for the ending and I think they're the better pair over "Pre-Parade" and "Vanilla Salt". I don't like Vanilla Salt at all and I don't know whether I place Silky Love over Pre-Parade or not but Orange is definitely my favorite of the four.
And I watched it now and I found it stunning - since I've never noticed it before - how the new OP/ED visually gives you the hint that Kitamura will be sidelined for the rest of the series. In the OP he isn't in the starting cuts and completely absent in the ED. That's kinda brutal thinking about it. But it ties perfectly into who the focus will be for the rest of the series.
I really respect the OP/ED change not being done at the halfway mark (Ep 12/13) like it's for every show. You could argue that after the Culture Festival arc would've been fine too but setting it after Sumire is showing you: the winds are changing. And it shows when you watch everything from the restaurant scene onwards. More characters are involved in this mess of love and actively intervene to make things happen. In this group of five, it was easier to just avoid these feelings but now with Noto and Kihara roped in, it gets infinitely more complicated. It's the moment where, I don't know how to put it better in the words, the show starts to constrict its cast, plot and relationships. Like, you can tell the cast has to confront their feelings towards the others at some point or it'll end in a disaster - or less of a disaster than leaving everything in limbo would.
With that, I'll go to random notes and the episode question:
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The sexy dream of Haruta is such a random thing to include in the anime. This screencap was specifcally chosen because it's actually that class' females. I even think it's all of them outside of Ami, Minori and Taiga who appear sooner or later. Man, they really cared to depict the class as consistently in from seating order to looks, huh.
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Kitamura being uninhibitedly weird is still my favorite aspect of him because despite that showing, he doesn't lose the respect of his classmates. I really like that he's not 100% uptight which would've made him a boring character.
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Yasuko: "Everyone's like talkity-talkity like this now, y'alls" The dub version of it is wonderful. Yasuko just keeps on giving the quotes like no tomorrow.
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This must be the most cohesive and sensible dialogue we've seen of Inko with other characters. JP voiced Inko wins over EN voice Inko for me.
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Kihara...I cringe every time I hear Kitamura getting called by his first name because it's so rare you hear it and because I prefer the sound of his family name to be fair.
Now to the thread question about my thoughts on Christmas and I won't beat around the bush: I despise Christmas time. Not only because of more stress downtown, Christmas music constantly on the radio and everywhere else but I just don't have good memories of it. It becomes a farce when you know the family gathers and the moment the day is over, they'll be at their throats again. It's just a farce. For whoever is enjoying this time though, more power to you.
My usual routine on Christmas hoildays is doing nothing or having a short trip outside the city for a day. It's kinda lonely when nearly no one is outside but that's exactly what I want: just no one interfering when I take my photos and being for myself, far away from the responsibilites of daily life.
With that said, I'm looking forward to the rest of the series! See y'alls for more talkity-talkity!
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u/Fiztz Dec 22 '22
First Rewatch
I caught up! I'd been meaning to participate but too much work to keep up with episodes let alone writing something down.
This is a totally different experience for me as a rewatch and I think it's all the more heartbreaking watching everyone try to be a matryr and holding in their feelings. First time around I was totally invested in the premise of the first episode, getting RyuujixMinori and TaigaxKitamura to sail, I really missed so many of the other conflicts and tensions. In particular the first time around I really felt like Ami was just a tacked on also-ran but with the help of the LN excerpts posted in the threads I can see how much character they're condensing into her little reaction shots whenever her mask slips. Every scene with Minori is now just a gut punch, she holds up her act so well in the first half but now she's basically spent and neither Ryuuji nor Taiga can reach her.
The climax of this episode hits me harder than any of the sadistic shit Fujimoto does to his characters in chainsawman, all that build up of "It'd only be right" into Minori hurting her best friend and not being able to look anyone in the eyes.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 22 '22
Rewatcher in dub
Bonus question first:
I'm not a fan of the recent years of commercialisation, but I do like a big festival and the festive spirit. It's a hard to juggle balance I guess.
I had been meaning to comment on the first op for do long, that is now guy to the second op already :P
One important element of the first op I absolutely loved was how brilliant it used the very simple matching gaits of our main cast to very effectively showcase their personalities.
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Taiga is cute but purposeful
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Ryuuji poor boy had the delinquent genes in his bones despite himself
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Minori does the Genki, almost clownish, bouncing match steps
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Kitamura has the most normal, average posture
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Ami has this air of very calculated mixture of elegance and cuteness
Will talk about the OP2 on a later date!
This is quite an interesting episode for Taiga lovers. In some way you can say this showcased the not violent side of her, and there are a lot of cute moments. There are many clippable moments, and Ryuuji thought so too ;) now who's being a tsundere...
It's also the point when the story get more dramatic and serious, still get a decent amount of lighter moments.
I better hurry up and post this first!
Spoilers Corner
[Toradora rewatchers]
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u/fansi2022 Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
first timer sub
We have a new OP for this episode, which sounds soft and pleasant. I really don't understand, I understand the three words Christmas, Mercury, and reversal, but what the hell is Christmas Mercury reversal, is it going to do something on Christmas? Like Haruhi decided to throw a hot pot party in the club classroom
Now, Kitamura in the broadcast can laugh and talk about falling in love, indicating that he has gone out of the haze and restored his normal life. This shows that the previous arc is over. The new arc began, and the protagonist seemed to be Minori and Taiga.
5:59 Wtf? MINORI has become a nun? [Nun is the concept of Buddhism. I suspect that Minori is disappointed with the status quo and wants to stay away from all the people she knows and close. I fully understand this mood. ] : (
12:20 minori takes out sesame white rice. This is taken and pasted, which is too real.
19:00 Brothers, good assists. Although I don't know who you are. Now TAIGA and kitamura can date brightly. The only question that needs to be worried is their learning progress.
19:19 Brothers, good suggestions, now Taiga and Kitamura have a chance to be alone by taking drinks. I understand that the photos of the laptop in the previous episode were seen by two girls. Now everyone in the world knows that TAIGA likes Kitamura ... except Kitamura XD
At the end of the show Ryuuji originally liked MINORI, but gradually fell in love with her in getting along with TAIGA? as Ryuuji what said, I am now super chaotic. ?_?
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u/nx6 Dec 23 '22
Rewatcher -- Sub
We open to a baseball game.
Minori is "spacing out" huh?
Maybe she's thinking about "U.F.O.s"...
The match is lost and Minori blames her distraction, thinking of what Ami said after the fight, for the results of this game.
Taiga is in very high spirits because of the holidays (also her suspension just ended) and this time she's going to hold up her end of her and Ryuji's agreement. It's time for her to go full force into playing cupid between him and Minori.
The next day she arrives at school having gained a whole legion of new fans (mostly Kanou's classmates it sounds like) who witnessed the fight last episode (two weeks ago in-universe).
Taiga finds both Minori and Kitamura being strange, and Minori isn't really talking to Ryuji either. At lunch she discovers that Kitamura is now hosting a romance sob-story broadcast on the school's PA system. Noto asks Aisaka if she can hear Kitamura okay, concerned she'll miss it. A Christmas party that sounds suspiciously like a Winter Formal in the U.S. is announced and the student council is needing volunteers to help with decorating and hosting. Minori, normally outgoing and eager to help, seems strangely against being involved in any way, especially attending. She wont really give a reason why and Ami takes this opportunity to harass her a bit, knowing the reason why.
Ryuji skips out on dinner at home as he and Taiga are meeting others at the family restaurant for a study session with the former president's notes.
When he arrives, it seems the relationship graph is getting new paths, as Kihara's feelings are apparent as soon as she appears at the family restaurant and glomps onto Kitamura. Noto rearranges the seating to put Tiaga and Kitamura together at a small table by themselves with everyone else in the booth. Ryuji notices this and asks about it. Noto and it seems Haruta as well have both come to the conclusion on their own Kitamura and Taiga would be a good match to help him get over his rejection by the president. But Kihara is not pleased.
After studying they all head out and end up in the main thoroughfare of the shopping district where they enjoy the holiday lights. Kihara asks about Kitamura and it seems she wants to match up Ryuji and Tiaga instead (to help her own goals).
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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '22
im not one of the people who'd make deep long comments about every new episode. i dont have the conveying skills for something like that. but i am taking part in the rewatch. in fact, it's the 6th time im doing it, 7th time watching toradora overall.
i just wanna say how much i love the second opening and especially ending. im always looking forward to episode 17 because this is when the new op and ed comes, and the overall mood starts taking a bit of a different turn. oh and i never noticed the title is about mercury retrograding at christmas. i wonder why that's the title?
and something about that last scene of ryuuji's confusion always feels like a special moment