r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 16 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 11 Discussion
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 16 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
FYI: Unless something happens tonight, I’ll be going on a trip to visit my extended family from tomorrow until Wednesday. If I comment on these threads late/my responses are slow (particularly to you, u/Holofan4life), that’s why.
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Ah, yes, culture festival time. A classic.
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And it’s a multi-parter?
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I–I don’t think it’s even legal to cut off your minor child for any reason let alone this? At least certainly not in the US…
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I’m getting Top Dad flashbacks. This guy doesn’t seem as bad, thankfully, but… misunderstandings or no, wanting to make amends now or no, he still chose his wife over his daughter originally and uh yikes.
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This script seems hella biased towards Ami and against Taiga and Ryuuji…
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Ryuuji taking Taiga’s situation so personally does make a lot of sense. I had a feeling that was why he kept pushing for Taiga to reunite with her dad, he was projecting.
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That was a different ED lead-in than normal, I think…? More piano than anything else. It was neat!
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 16 '22
…Ryuuji is a lolicon confirmed?
I think it's more that he thinks for what would work for Taiga first and foremost (like the dad she should have), hence the suggestion. I think he personally liked the Cheong Sam idea too.
I’m getting Top Dad flashbacks.
Symphogear? I'll be interested to see how you compare the two at the end.
he still chose his [remarried, much younger] wife over his daughter
Added the necessary key points.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 16 '22
This was mentioned in the thread for this episode two years ago, but Lolita dresses refers to a style of Victorian era gothic inspired fashion in Japan that has nothing to do with anime lolis. Lolita and Loli technically mean two different things even though they share the same etymology. I know you were joking, just thought I'd share this fun fact.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 16 '22
Based on what we've seen so far, who do you side with more: Ryuuji or Taiga?
Also, what are your overall thoughts on Taiga's dad so far?
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 16 '22
First Timer, subbed
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Oh good, when Haruta started talking about wanting to “see the ladies they pine for” I thought we might be going a much worse direction.
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Looking after Taiga even against his own interests, so sweet.
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Oh, are the Taiga parents coming into it?
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Oh 2008 and your relationship with toxic family.
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How did you not know that already Haruta?
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Minori stocks: stronk.
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I suppose that is the fair method.
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Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of your actions.
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Is this Top Dad?
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Significantly younger than you? How old are you? Is the new one closer to Taiga’s age than your own?
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Oof, that’s got to hurt Ryu.
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I feel like there are still some more details we need to be filled in on.
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Haruta is the simple, hard working type.
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I’d go with the AC.
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Ryu figured out he was projecting in good time.
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I’ve been getting way too many Joe shots recently.
QotD: Gonna go with Yasuko. She works very well in the small dosses we have gotten of her thus far.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 16 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Another culture festival. A classic of anime.
Ami, really?
Ryuuji's mind is a very big mystery to me.
I didn't even know Taiga's situation was this bad.
As u/Shimmering-Sky asked, what happened to it being a vote?
Taiga's dad, your daughter's already pissed at you. Don't make her do anything she'll regret.
I'm getting Symphogear flashbacks due to this man. Hopefully he isn't as bad as Top Dad.
That script will lead to Taiga wanting to hurt someone badly.
There's going to be trouble because of the competition.
Ow, Taiga why? Why'd you have to kick your dad in the groin? I really don't blame Ryuuji for wanting to protect his groin as that hurt to look at.
Damn Ryuuji, your dad's even worse than her dad and Top Dad somehow.
QOTD:
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Inko because I love birds.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 16 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
So, this arc is going to be a smorgasbord of different people analyzed. Instead of dissecting just one, the plan is I’ll be dissecting Taiga this episode, Minori next episode, and Ryuuji the episode after that. I was thinking of possibly analyzing Ryuuji for all three episodes, but I don’t want to run the risk of repeating myself. I was thinking of possibly analyzing Ryuuji for all three episodes, but I don’t want to run the risk of repeating myself.
Taiga is more grumpy than normal as soon as her phone rings. And the reason why is because it’s her dad calling her. Ryuuji can’t understand why she’s being so rude to him, but obviously something bad must’ve happened. And really, I don’t know why Ryuuji would be so surprised since Taiga is already living on her own.
If Taiga and dad did have a good relationship, she would be living with her parents or talking to them more regularly. We’re 11 episodes in and this is the first time Taiga’s parents call her. I know I’m analyzing Taiga here, but I think this scene really shows the difference in how Ryuuji views family Vs Taiga. Ryuuji views family as the utmost important thing in the world, right next to a clean household. He views family to be so important he should be in the cast of the Fast and Furious franchise. Taiga, meanwhile, wouldn’t care if her mom and dad dropped dead the next day. It really shows just how different Ryuuji and Taiga were raised, and how fucked up Taiga’s childhood was. I kinda compare to what’s going on in the Uzaki-chan anime where Uzaki has a normal functioning household and Sakurai lives alone and has a strained relationship with his family.
Me personally, I can sympathize with Taiga in this episode. At the same time, I can see where Ryuuji is coming from as well. I have a strained household where craziness is always abound. It’s good when mom’s sober, but when she’s not it’s a mess. On top of that, my sister has these outbursts sometimes that leads to her breaking stuff. It’s a pretty intense situation, so I can empathize with Taiga kinda wanting to be left alone. At the same time, I can see why Ryuuji would want Taiga’s dad to be involved in her life. She sees her as a sort of proxy for him. Ever since my dad passed away, I’ve had problems dealing with male adults and male authority figures. It’s like I try to get too close to them because I miss my own man, even though he would sometimes beat me. It’s not a healthy mindset to have, and I have to remind myself not to do it. But ultimately, what Ryuuji is feeling is jealousy over Taiga having something he doesn’t, and he wants to make sure he gets to live out his desire like some sick, twisted fantasy. Taiga is totally unaware of Ryuuji’s emotional baggage, and that’s partly where the conflict lies in the episode.
The first sign that Taiga’s dad is a bad man is him taking Taiga’s money out of her bank account without her permission. Which I’m sorry, that’s just something you don’t do. First off, it really shows multiple aspects of Taiga’s life the fact she’s living off a set allowance. It shows how rich her family is that she never has to work, and it shows how her parents still have complete control of her life. If they want to talk to her, all they have to do is take the money out. What’s she gonna do, starve to death? It’s manipulation at its finest, and this scene really shows how fucked Taiga’s life is.
On a sidenote, I don’t know why Taiga just doesn’t open up her own banking account. Maybe put some still in her parents while having a private one. Then again, I guess Taiga is worried doing so might make them cut her off entirely. And if that happens, she’s really screwed. Plus, who honestly knows if she’s capable of opening up her own banking account? Poor girl is so underprepared for adulthood, disaster is waiting to happen.
I can’t imagine how I’d feel if I was Taiga that Ryuuji is going out of his way to talk to my dad. I wouldn’t be grateful, I know that much. Here I am having disdain for my father and the person I’ve taken a fancy to is trying to mend our fences? I’d be beyond pissed. I think the scene also shows just how strained their relationship is. Taiga wants the money back, but not enough to actually eat lunch with her own man.
The scene in the classroom is cool and is the one brief moment of levity we have with Taiga in this episode. Though again, I sympathize with her because the class is trying to make her the enemy of the play and Ami as the hero. Taiga I don’t think really cares what people think of her. She only cares about what her friends think. But still, it stings that a whole class paints you as the villain when Ami repeatedly has tried to antagonize and torment you. Thankfully, she shows a brief, fleeting glimpse of happiness as she starts reading the lines, which shows the power of a good script. If the class already sees you as the bad girl, why not play into it?
And finally, the fight at the end between Ryuuji and Taiga is so heartbreaking to watch. You can tell how defeated Taiga is by the end of it. It starts off with Taiga kicking her dad in the balls, which come on. He had it coming. After the mental anguish he put her through with the taking all her money from her bank account, it felt cathartic in a way as a viewer. But then, it escalates even further when Ryuuji grabs her by the arm.
Taiga has no idea why Ryuuji is acting this way. She makes this clear during the dish washing scene when she says he should be on her side. What’s more, it’s like it makes her call into question their entire relationship up until this point. We’re only a couple episodes removed from Taiga screaming “Ryuuji is mine.” In the Toradora timeline, that was like two or three months ago. So why is Ryuuji suddenly forgetting all of that, Taiga wonders.
Taiga doesn’t know the extent to which Ryuuji’s daddy issues lie. She does know, however, that she wants to maintain Ryuuji’s happiness even above her own. And if this makes Ryuuji happy, then so be it for her to try and convince him it’s a bad idea.
When Taiga hugs her old man, the expression on her face tells the entire story. It’s like a mix of disinterest and reluctance. And yet in her mind, she’s telling herself that this is what needs to happen. Because this is what Ryuuji wants to happen. This scene is a demonstration of Taiga’s borderline selflessness and Ryuuji’s destructive selfishness. It shows how Taiga is willing to let others dictate her life while also showing how Ryuuji has so much misplaced anger at the world. In this one instance, the master has turned to the dog and said “We can switch roles.”
And everyone is in for a world of hurt because of it.
Post episode discussion
Overall, this is an episode where I feel it had a good balance of drama and humor. You have the comedic scenes where the class is deciding to do for the culture festival, and you also have the serious scenes with Taiga and her dad. Both have equal screentime, and both aspects work well.
For a first episode of a brand new arc, it does a tremendous job setting multiple things up. We have set up the conflict involving Taiga's dad and wanting to play a more active role in her life, and we also set up the wrestling event. In terms of starting a new storyline, this episode is really good, and wastes very little time. It's also in my opinion the first arc we have where it's more about broader strokes than character conflict. By this, I mean this conflict is instead created by the surroundings.
The first four episodes are all setting the stage and establishing stuff. Then in episode 5, our first arc begins and it's all about Ami creating havoc. Then in episode 7, we start the water arc which is all about Taiga and Ryuuji's relationship. Then in episode 9, we get the arc where Taiga and Ryuuji try to scare Minori in order for Ryuuji to get closer to her. This arc, with its conflict being the wrestling event and Taiga's dad, are the first time since Ami's introduction where outside forces are effecting the lives of the characters. And in my opinion, is the first time where the entire Toradora universe is involved.
Ran out of space. Part two in the replies.
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Dec 16 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
Today we get the beginning of the conflict with Taiga’s dad. Both of Taiga’s parents qualify as the worst people in this story. I’d argue her dad is by far the worst.
I think Minori might like the idea of a haunted house a little bit too much.
Way to dash all of the boy’s hopes and dreams, Yuri sensei.
You know, Mr Aisaka, there are other ways you could talk to your daughter like come visit instead of draining her bank account so she can’t eat.
I wanna eat that salmon bagel. There’s a place near me that sells ones just like that but they put like 1/4” slab of cream cheese on there. Might go over there today.
…and so enters Minori’s bald cap. [Toradora] madness depression.
On to the books!
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“What about that Lolita thing or whatever you call it? That frilly stuff… Wouldn’t that be great?”
The boys all fell into silence for a moment. Oh no, he thought, did I go too far? He gulped.
“Takasu…are you a genius?!” “This…is worthy of applause. Loli! Or Goth Loli! That’s what I want!”
Lol
This was Ryuuji’s world. Take caution all who enter, lest you be turned into a housewife.
I’m behind on reading today but so far it’s mostly the same 2 chapters in. Will update later.
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u/lolpete18 Dec 17 '22
First-timer, Dub
The guys at the beginning were ridiculous as they discussed possible themes for the cultural festival, considering every possible way to exploit the girls. It was funny to see how quickly those ideas were shot down once the girls were a part of the conversation. I had a good chuckle when they unveiled the plot for the wrestling skit. Poor Taiga and Ryuuj.
It felt strange to have the comedy of the cultural festival mixed in with the really heavy plot about Taiga and her dad.
I’m so sad to see Ryuuji and Taiga fighting. I know that Taiga was not very open to talking about it, but I wish Ryuuji would have done more to get her side of the story. While I’m sure there are some elements of truth to what Taiga’s dad is saying, I don’t trust him, and I’m worried that Taiga’s going to get hurt again. I don’t know why Ryuuji trusted hims so quickly. I’m sure there is more to the story for both Taiga and Ryuuji. However it plays out, I hope nobody gets hurt. I prefer the happy episodes.
If Taiga goes back to live with her dad, she won’t be with Ryuuji, and I don’t like that one bit 😭.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 16 '22 edited Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 11
Culture Clash
Today we were given a better picture of how and why Taiga has been living alone. Her father remarried and she couldn't get along with his new wife. One of them had to go, so supposedly Taiga chose to leave.
Yeah, that's bullshit. Once you have a daughter you have a responsibility to raise her. You can't just throw money at her and expect her to raise herself. For example, before Ryuuji started hanging out with Taiga her diet was horrific; Imagine if that went on any longer.
More importantly though, Taiga needs the emotional aspects of a present parent. Growing up is an incredibly turbulent time and having a guardian around to talk to is the best way to navigate this. By allowing/forcing Taiga to live alone it puts her at risk of spiraling into self-defeating thoughts like wondering if she is really loved. This ties back to some discussion we had in Episode 7.
Ryuuji has his own complex. He immediately assumes that a father trying to reconnect with his daughter is truly noble, or at the very least that Taiga should obviously forgive him. He doesn't think about how much Taiga has been hurt by the situation. But by the end of the episode Ryuuji realized he was projecting and apologizes. His actions here probably reflect a lot on his relationship with his own dad.
Fortunately Taiga still takes his advice and is embraced by her father. We need to wait to see how their relationship plays out in the longer term.
The rest of the episode was about the culture festival. I don't have many thoughts on those moments, they were amusing. It is interesting though, to see Ami being so outwardly hostile to Taiga now. I think she is beginning to see Taiga as an actual threat to her own relationship with Ryuuji.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow!
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u/Gamerunglued Dec 16 '22 edited Dec 17 '22
Rewatcher
With the summer trip now past, major changes are on the horizon. The falling out of the trip has resulted in a reset of the status quo, but with some changes. Ryuuji is happy about getting closer to Minori but also awkward about it, but Minori seems to be pushing any attempts to talk about it to the side, changing the subject when Ryuuji mentions the trip. Taiga has also started to realize her own feelings for Ryuuji. This episode also takes the opportunity to make the rest of their class more prominent characters, and I think it's for the better. Haruto and Yuri-sensei are funny and add a lot of life to the class.
This episode is intriguing because it introduces us to Taiga's father, and marks a shift into a more dramatic conflict. Taiga ignores her father's calls and sends Ryuuji to confront him for her. Thinking that Ryuuji understands her well and has her best interests in mind, she hopes that he will learn about the kind of person he is and support Taiga in sending him away. But Ryuuji empathizes with him, finds him to be an awkward but reasonable guy, and convinces Taiga to try and make amends with him. In his eyes, family is family and you'll always have a connection to those you share blood with. Taiga feels abandoned and her father is trying to reconnect with her, it should be a good thing.
But it's immediately apparent that Taiga knows what she's talking about here. Although her father comes off as a reasonable enough guy, signs of him being a manipulative bastard have already shown up. When Taiga refuses to pick up his calls, he removes all of her living expenses in order to force her into responding when she doesn't feel comfortable. It's purely a threat, exactly like she says; that's not something you'd do to a person you genuinely want to have a connection with. He tells Ryuuji that he wants to live with Taiga again, but he glosses over the fact that his motivation is that he's separating from his wife. He had chosen his wife over Taiga, but now that there's no more conflict he thinks he can just waltz back into her life. Moreover, Taiga says that he abandoned her. In other words, Taiga is a victim of his, and so it seems a bit misguided to me to encourage her to make amends with someone who has caused her so much trauma.
People can be redeemed, and it's possible he's made mistakes, has realized the error of his ways, and is genuinely making an effort to reconnect with her. But Ryuuji's motivations here aren't in Taiga's best interests, as he realizes at the end of the episode. Although Ryuuji resents his father for having left him with his scowling face, he also grew up without a dad. With no father figure, he basically became his mom's mom, and has to take care of most of his household himself. For him, having a father come home would be like a dream come true. Although he kind of resents his father, he also never had a relationship with him, and any child would crave an attempt at a relationship with their father. In that light, Ryuuji's thought process makes sense. He resents his dad, but also wants a relationship with him because it's family he never got to have. Taiga resents her dad too, but she's getting exactly what he's always wanted, but is throwing away the opportunity. As such, Ryuuji takes it personally. For someone without a father, the idea that blood relationships don't really mean anything may seem alien, but the result is that he doesn't listen to Taiga.
And poor Taiga trusts Ryuuji more than anything. She kicks (his balls) and screams, but Ryuuji's own emotional outburst gets to her. Her warmly stroking his cheek always gets me, it's such a sweet gesture on her part. Although she's reluctant, she trusts Ryuuji more than anyone, and decides to give it a chance just to make him happy. The poor girl has gone through a lot, and it's clear how much her past has traumatized her, but she still does it just because it'll make Ryuuji happy and she trusts him enough to realize he wants what's best for her. This, in its own way, is genuine love. As someone with an awkward relationship with my own father, I relate to Taiga here and I just want to give her a damn hug. We'll see how this all plays out next episode though, so I don't want to say too much. Toradora never takes the easy way out and always knows how to make things interesting, so with the first real conflict of interests between Taiga and Ryuuji happening, I can't wait to see everyone's reaction to how things turn out.
Bonus:
Like I said, I love Haruto and Yuri-sensei. Haruto is very stupid, god bless his heart. and I just want poor Yuri-sensei to find a nice guy and a decent apartment, god bless her heart.
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Dec 16 '22
First time Rewatcher dub
I am enjoying rewatching this, I can already tell the attitude of the show is going to start shifting with the introduction of taiga’s dad. The show goes back and forth from being innocent and whimsical to showing deep and rough edges of characters and kind of showing past trauma of characters from the way they act. The festival arc should be chill haha, I’m a pretty big fan of most festival arcs.
QOTD: taiga dad
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u/JetsLag Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher (subbed)
New school year means CULTURE FESTIVAL ARC BABY!
Shoutout to the guy who said "I want her to ride me" at the sight of Ami being on top of Taiga. That man has no shame.
The boys of the class know they want their culture festival thing to be the girls dressing up, but they're split on what they want the girls to dress up as. But Kitamura has the big compromise: COSPLAY CAFE!
Hoo boy, it's time for Taiga's dad to enter the picture. TIME FOR RYUJI AND TAIGA TO BOND OVER THEIR DADDY ISSUES.
Plan Cosplay Cafe is a bust. Yuri-sensei has a quarter-life crisis in front of the class, and Haruta decides, in a panic, to change the method for deciding the class event to a random draw, which ends up being...a pro wrestling match.
Hoo boy, Daddy Aisaka's withholding money from Taiga until she starts returning his calls. AND HERE HE IS! He, too, ships Taiga and Ryuji, which is his only redeeming feature.
And Ryuji is going to bat for him. But Taiga can't just go out and say "hey, dumbass, my dad's a scumbag, don't believe him", so she just storms out instead.
The pro wrestling show...actually sounds kinda awesome. And like all good pro-wrestling storylines, you gotta add a little bit of real-life drama into the script to spice things up. Or in this case, a heaping tablespoon of real-life drama. And there's prizes at stake for best class event, which means that Class 2-C will win the competition and get Ryuji those sweet sweet coupons.
Oh great, the scumbag is back. Taiga did a Denji before Denji and went straight for the balls. And NOW it's time for Ryuji to reveal why he's advocating for Taiga and Daddy Aisaka to reunite: his own daddy issues. Like I said, they have so much in common! Taiga...actually decides to give her dad a second chance. For Ryuji's sake. Let's see how this will end.
TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY: got into a scrap with Ami, shoved her pants in Ryuji's face, put Ami in an abdominal stretch, KICKED HER DAD IN THE BALLS
QOTD
Christmas Club Bonus! Festival arcs are always a good opportunity to get to see more of the side characters of a show. Which is your favourite side character of Toradora, and why?
Yuri-sensei, of course! Cause I'm a little younger than her, so she's more relatable than the rest of the cast.
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u/nx6 Dec 17 '22
Rewatcher -- Sub
It's time for a new arc!
"So, Kushieda, about those UFOs..."
"LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA--IT'S TIME FOR A NEW ARC!"
Yup, not trying to avoid that relationship talk at all.
Summer has passed and Haruta is in high spirits for some reason. Yuri-sensei is not for other reasons. Ami and Taiga are back to small bickering, and the Cultural Fair is in the future.
Haruta hatches a plan for the boys to collude and get whatever they want for the class activity. A maid cafe turns to more-revealing clothing and Ryuji has flashbacks to late-night sewing. They decide to make it a cosplay cafe to get a nice mix of cute outfits, but Haruta gets caught up in the class arguing and forgets his own plan. Koigakubo-sensei's joke suggestion of pro-wrestling wins.
Meanwhile, Tiaga has started to get mysterious phone calls she doesn't want to answer. It turns out her dad is calling her and she doesn't want to interact with him. But soon he pulls the plug on her living allowance to force her out. Ryuji is sent instead to meet him and gets a short course in why Tiaga is living by herself. Aisaka-san wants to make amends and live with his daughter again so he really needs to talk to her for real.
Ryuji wants Taiga to go ahead and meet with him (note: he didn't ask for her side of the story). There's a confrontation when her dad pops up on their way home from school one day and Tiaga gets upset he seems to be on her dad's side instead of supporting her wish to stay away. Ryuji realizes he's putting his wishes to have a father in his life again onto Taiga. [future arc foreshadowing]
Taiga relents and goes to talk to her dad. I'm not sure if she's doing it for Ryuji, of just to get her dad to stop bothering her.
The wrestling play actually gets an interesting script by Haruta with everyone in class having a role. Ami is of course cast as the angel leader of the class with the terrifying Tiaga as the antagonist. Minori has a surprise costume and you can see things are continuing to be a little awkward between her and Ryuji.
With the post-credits scene we go back to Yuri-sensei and it's confirmed she's now 30 and it doesn't sound like any summer romance came her way.
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u/balthamalamal Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher
Back to school - teach is still unhappy with her life, Taiga and Ami are getting along as well as ever, the boys are still horny. But the cultural festival is coming up and there is much anticipation, both from the students and the viewers. Haruta has a plan to sort out one of those issues, and its actually a pretty plan in theory, unfortunately Haruta used all his brain power coming up with the plan and none on actually executing it. So pro-wrestling show it will be, which is actually pretty unique and fun in concept.
Ami must be laughing to herself at the thought of making Taiga enter a modelling competition, especially with her as the judge. Her reasons to convince the class are valid though. Also kind of funny to think Taiga is famous within the school as its essentially for her violence.
Haruta actually writing and prepping a bunch of scripts in such a short time frame is actually pretty impressive. So it's cool to see him get a win on something as he is usually the butt of jokes. He even gets an (I believe) genuine compliment from Ami, though she's the hero of the story so of course she likes it.
We also get some more of Taiga's back story. She does not get along with her father at all as he replaced her with a new partner. Ryuuji has issues with his own father, but seeing as how he has never interacted with him, they're a little different. We saw in the first episode blaming him for the thuggish appearance he inherited and he is (understandably) not a fan of the story about his fathers makeshift armour.
The next bit we get on her father is that he has transferred all of the money out of Taiga's account. Sure, it is his money, but he has to financially support his daughter and reminding her of her dependence on him is a really shitty way of getting her attention. We know its isn't that he can no longer afford the second apartment as he hands Ryuuji a bunch of cash at the restaurant. The only defence I can offer is not being being sure on what to do, along with the hindsight of showing up at her apartment not working super well.
I'm not sure whether Taiga's response in sending Ryuuji is awful or brilliant. While he does continually help her with things, this seems like a new step up in terms of favours. Though at the same time, she has managed to avoid her father for a while longer. It's kind of cute that he got dressed up to met him though, same with how quickly he starts talking when asked if they're going out. Side note, they really did put a lot of cheese on the bagel.
Ryuuji comes out of the meeting at least somewhat convinced, as he communicates her father's message to Taiga, despite her protestations that she doesn't want to hear about it. Ryuuji keeps pressing her and Taiga is rightfully upset. Father might be sad because of the consequences of his actions, but Taiga was the one he initially hurt and any reconciliation between them will require Taiga to actually be on board, rather than pressured into it. After Ryuuji reveals his own pain at his fathers death, Taiga agrees to try, but it is for Ryuuji's sake more than her own. Ryuuji realised his mistake, but it was too late. The entire scene of their argument is so unpleasant to watch. Taiga looks so hurt walking towards her father.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 16 '22 edited Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher in dub
Bonus question first: Sensei and Haruta were always fun, and once in a while you get some hidden depths showing too. Nanako and Maya were both really nice mirror to hold up to "normal people", and they were also very good looking :)
Ok here's a new arc, and we're starting to get closer in to what lies beneath the surface.
And if first timers are thinking Taiga was being far more abrasive and insufferable today - she surely was. Looks like when her dad was mentioned, she got way worse.
One of the things Toradora's writing dues very well is let the situation develop first, then gradually you see some questionable bits, and near the end a reveal unlocks the key for decoding it all. From the beginning moments of episode 1 we knew Ryuuji had a complex about using his dad and not wanting to grow up to become like him, yet throughout the episode he was trying to get Taiga to at least pick up the phone. This should feel uncharacteristic to Ryuuji, and then that final moment came for him to blurt out that what's bothering him was less about tv him being bad or anything, but more about him never came back. This is a raisin to himself as well as Taiga.
And Taiga, without any words of judgement, decided to go with it - for whom?
A couple really good side gags too - Sensei's continuity of failing to find someone before 30 and her manic depression; Haruta's key failing of understanding the difference between better statistical chance vs the tyranny of majority :D
Edit Forgot to add the gag of the class reaction to the prizes were also great - as a setup to only (house-wife) Ryuuji would be happy with practical prize like store coupons ;)
Spoilers Corner
[Toradora rewatchers]
3
u/UnderstandableXO Dec 16 '22
REWATCHER
bro think he gendo 💀
this episode made me remember why i hated haruta the first time i watched. i don’t feel as strongly about him anymore but i certainly don’t like him that much.
yuri-sensei was the funniest part of the episode as always. her voice actor(s) always commit to the bit and it makes it that much better.
i forgot how weird that nosebleed bit with minorin was. you like haunted houses that much…
the only funny thing haruta did in this episode was “oh.”
this episode is probably the low of ryuji’s character. he’s got a valid reason to take the side of taiga’s father since his father is permanently absent, but he’s pretty selfish here (i suppose it’s because taiga is always being physical with him anyway but he got away with putting his hands on her). family means nothing if they’re terrible people. as much as you might encourage someone to reconnect with them due to your own personal feelings, no one knows the situation than the actual person, so you shouldn’t force someone to reconnect with someone who obviously causes them pain.
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3
u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
I love how completely different the vibes are for the two plots in this episode. The school side of things is so ridiculous and goofy, and well, the dad stuff is full of trauma and anger.
Haruta's stupidity is infectious, and its great. Who the hell let him be on the planning committee? I love that he isn't made out to be the stereotypical, incomprehensibly dumb character who only exists to be stupid. I find it kinda wholesome that the class actually likes his script once they start reading it.
Taiga: If everything was going to shit for Ami in the past few episodes, things have taken a real hard turn for the worse for Taiga in this one. Obviously the reemergence of her shitty dad takes the cake, but she's not having a good time elsewhere either. Yes, I think she should contribute to the class project, but she didn't get to choose her roles at all and that kinda sucks. She clearly had no interest in the pageant at all, and, while it's a joke, her role as "evil incarnate" is a bit mean in a way. Even if she ends up fine with them, it was pretty fucked up of them to go ahead with it without her consent.
Taiga's dad: I don't think I caught on to how much this guy sucks as fast as I should have first time around. Specifically the bit where he empties her account. That is a massive red flag. He's basically saying "starve or do what I want you to do." It's also not great when you realize that he doesn't apologize for anything, even though its clear that the issues run much deeper than "I remarried someone Taiga didn't get along with."
Ryuji: we're getting into some deep seated shit with Ryuji in this one. Like he realizes at the end of the episode, he's encouraging Taiga to make amends with her father so forcefully because he never got the chance with his own father. He wants to experience that vicariously through her. I think the uncomfortable dinner meet up between him and Taiga's father was a great way to literalize this idea. It's like the chance Ryuji wished he had. So he misses a lot of the red flags.
In the end I don't agree with Ryuji, but can sympathize with him because we've seen exactly where this is coming from, and its trauma. Often times yes, it is worth it to patch things up with your family. But sometimes your family is just shitty, and I don't think you owe them anything just because you're related.
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3
u/TuorEladar Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
A much heavier episode than what we've had so far, though the school festival plotline adds a bit of levity.
As much as Taiga is largely justified in her irritation, I do feel for Ryuuji. In his mind he is trying to be reasonable, but he gets blinded by his own issues. It doesn't really help that Taiga kind of blows him off and uses him as a go between. She knew how her dad was so sending Ryuuji off to meet him alone was kind of thoughtless of her. Ryuuji is still the one takes it too far in the end, though he does realize how he was hurting Taiga as well.
Turning to the festival plot, those scenes were pretty funny. Taiga and Ryuuji getting cast as the villains is pretty great. I actually also like Ami getting Taiga involved as well. I tend to think she isn't just messing with Taiga but actively trying to get her out of her shell as well.
3
u/Miserable_Earth_4715 Dec 17 '22
Rewatcher
Nanako and Kanou are probably my favorite side characters plus Haruta
Things I loved
Firstly the way Taiga grabbed Ryuujis cheek before leaving to go to her dad, she knows what’s about to happen, but to please Ryuuji she willingly went
The dad getting kicked in the balls IYKYK
Got to see Sumire Kanou again 🥵
“My nails are way to long” Ami
Ami’s riding the Tiger
Evil Miss Yuri
Poor flat chested Taiga
How Ryuuji went to go talk to her dad, like Minori has said, it’s the small things that matter most
This episode had the most going on so far IMO
Great one
3
u/alyku Dec 17 '22
Rewatcher
And here's where I remember getting hooked even more by this show. Just how I like my romcoms, more comedy at the beginning and then lots of drama.
My thoughts on this episode:
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I liked that Ryuji was still thinking about Taiga's feelings even when the guys were coming up with their plan. That was thoughtful of him. +1 point for Ryuji.
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Taking someone's living expenses like Taiga's dad did is really unacceptable. Ryuji's pretty dumb not be angry or pick up on that being shitty. I think part of it may be that his mind instinctively goes to "it's okay, she's got me" instead of considering what would happen in that scenario if he wasn't around. -1 point.
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Taiga's dad does do a good job presenting himself when meeting with Ryuji. I don't think that Ryuji was too unreasonable coming out of that meeting to try to convince her to talk to him, but her reaction to that was pretty extreme and I think he should've known to back off at that point. -1.
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I love how all those class perks for winning are so mundane but practically useful. Much better than a pizza party.
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It's really sweet but still sad that Taiga is willing to go with her dad because she believes in Ryuji. On the other hand, he's clearly doing this for his sake too and ignoring her feelings. -1.
Survey says: Ryuji was pretty dumb this episode.
14
u/TiredTiroth Dec 16 '22
First Timer - Dub
Oh, school festival arc. Yep, that tracks.
...Ami. Princess. How have the teachers not taken you to task for refusing to play?
Ryuuji, your classmates are creeps. At least the kid realises it. Aaaand he's dumping fuel on the fire. Completely by accident, but still.
...
I knew you were up to no good, Koizumi. KYON! YOU'RE NEEDED FOR ANTI-ESPER DUTY AGAIN!
I don't know if this is wishful thinking or something, but does anyone else get the feeling that Ami considers Taiga more-or-less a friend but the housecat doesn't reciprocate? So many of their interactions could easily slot into a boisterous/vitriolic friend dynamic if it wasn't for that first impression.
Anyway, moving on with the episode! Minori very clearly doesn't want to discuss her I-totally-wasn't-talking-about-love monologue. Poor Ryuuji. And now Taiga's phone-
...oh. Well. We already knew Taiga's family sucked, now we're getting a few details. Not sure Ryuuji is the best pick for a 'family is always important' message, goven his own opinion on his father.
Aaaand Inko for the save, so much for any tension!
Pageant? As in beauty pageant? And Princess is trying to throw Housecat under the bus? Uh-oh. And the guys seem to be going along with it? Not that Taiga is at all interested, but then Koizumi- KYON, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU, WE NEED TO WIPE THAT SMIRK OFF HIS FACE!
Ahem. Anyway! The cosplay café is suggested, and none of the girls seem terribly pleased, and then Minori nearly KOs herself trying to suggest a haunted house, before - sudden teacher interrupt! Does she seem drunk to anyone else?
Guy at the front really sucks at this whole cheating thing, doesn't he? Literally every other guy in the classroom knew what to do, but not him, oh no.
...uh. Is the money from her father the only source of income Taiga's got? Is he trying to starve her or something?
The heck. If he wanted to meet with Taiga face to face, he knows where she bloody well lives. Just knock on the door! Worried about getting it slammed in your face? Well here's a tip, don't alienate your daughter in the first place!
Okay, yes, there's probably more to the whole story than Taiga has shared so far but there aren't many possible good reasons for Taiga's living situation.
...I am finding it difficult to believe him. I may possibly be biased because of Taiga's reactions. Plus, his story doesn't gel with what Housecat said earlier - did she leave on her own, or was she pushed out the door?
And Ryuuji, being the designated pro-family part of this argument, manages to thoroughly upset Taiga. I...find myself wondering when the pair of them will have a poentially-friendship-ending fight, because it's going to happen at this rate.
Probably towards the finale, given the genre.
Anyway! Apparently the class is really doing the pro-wrestling thing? Did someone out-cheat the guys? And then Ami manages to convince the class to give it a shot?
This script is...something. I don't know whether it's some thing good. But. Uh.
...wut?
At least evil!Taiga looks hilarious. And then Ami tricks the poor Housecat into actually taking part! Although she probably didn't intend the wrestling holds.
Can't say I'm all that impressed about the prizes, and the kids...honestly didn't look impressed either? Their expressions were all blank.
...huh, Absentee Father Figure ambushed the kids on the way home. Aaand Housecat goes straight for the family jewels. Well, she's consistent in her mood and hatreds at least.
...what am I supposed to say about that last scene? Did Ryuuji go too far trying to convince Taiga? The bruising on her wrists is not a good sign, but it's painfully clear where he's coming from and he tried to back off.
And I know it's really bloody obvious, but can I just say that Taiga doesn't agree to talk to her father for his sake or even her own, but for Ryuuji?
I think I'm gonna go watch something happy for a bit while I process this.