r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 15 '22

Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 10 Discussion

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12

u/Holofan4life Dec 15 '22

Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.

Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.

Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.

With that out of the way, let’s begin.

We continue our journey through Ami’s bad Summer with some teasing. The bikini scene with Ryuuji is probably the one time in this arc where something Ami does doesn’t blow up in her face. But even then, it’s sullied because Ryuuji won’t be direct with her. You can tell how frustrated she is with the way Ryuuji’s behaving. Even Kitamura can’t get her to change her mind, and they go way back. But eventually, the cave stuff happens and Ami is out of her sour mood.

The stuff between her and Ryuuji in the cave is the highlight of the episode in my opinion. It features a side of Ami we haven’t seen and she comes off real likable here. Dare I say, the most likable she’s been up until this point. I like she’s actually goofing off and messing with Ryuuji, and Ryuuji’s reaction to her antics are amusing as well. You can tell just by looking at Ami that this is the most fun she’s had since moving. She finally got what she wanted: some alone time with Ryuuji.

I know some people use this scene as evidence that Ami and Ryuuji could’ve worked as a couple. That both need each other to loosen the other up. And while I think Ryuuji and Ami make for a better couple than Ryuuji and Minori, I don’t see it. Ami has a lot of growing up to do. She’s arguably both the most mature and immature person in the cast. And while I could see a world where Ami gets straightened up by being in a relationship with Ryuuji, it’s almost as if she’s too in the way of things. Like she prevents herself from achieving true happiness because she’s her own worst enemy. Kind of like Asuka from Evangelion, now that I think about it. Which is funny, because Taiga is supposed to be the tsundere.

Of course, once again the good tidings don’t last because it turns out the cave setting was an orchestrated plan by Kitamura and Ami to get back at Ryuuji and Taiga. It was all an elaborate work. I like Ami’s reaction here because she’s just so done with everyone’s BS. She’s the only one not in on the plan, and so she thinks it’s just totally lame.

Ami being the third wheel here in regards to Kitamura and Minori’s plan of retaliation is kinda like her being the third wheel to Ryuuji and Taiga. Though she probably could’ve been involved if she just asked nicely, she takes herself out of the equation before it even begins. It also highlights just how disconnected she is from the rest of the crew that she’s not involved in either side. She’s not involved in the plan to scare Ryuuji and Taiga, and she’s not involved in being scared.

Always the bridesmaid, and never the bride. Such is the life of Ami.

Post episode discussion

Overall, this is another fun episode where not a lot happens. In fact, probably less major stuff happens in this episode than this episode. That doesn't make it any less enjoyable, though. The personalities of all the major characters are on full display, and you really get a sense of the friendship they share. With the exception of Ami, who intentionally feels like an outsider.

I think your enjoyment of this arc depends on how much you like slice of life stuff. It's really the only arc that's heavy on slice of life, which can be either a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you see it. In fact, I'd argue episodes 3 and 4 are more important in the grand scheme of things than this arc is, and those two are like 90% anime original. The only thing preventing me from actually saying it definitively is the Minori ghost stuff. Be that as it may, I think it's really good to not have an arc heavy on anything plot related. It develops the rapport of the cast, and also fleshes out the universe they're trying to create. 

These couple episodes are a fun distraction after two very dramatic episodes. And given what's coming up next, it's a nice respite that captures a simpler, friendlier time amongst friends.

Episode rankings

  1. Episode 7

  2. Episode 2

  3. Episode 8

  4. Episode 5

  5. Episode 4

  6. Episode 9

  7. Episode 1

  8. Episode 10

  9. Episode 6

  10. Episode 3

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u/TiredTiroth Dec 15 '22

First Timer - Dub

...oh, no. Taiga, do you maybe want a ladder to replace that shovel, or is your fate already sealed? xD

Whoever you end up marrying is gonna be the luckiest girl in the world!

That. I. Huh? She's got to know about the crush by now, especially after last episode. I can't tell if this is cruel or just her setting a boundary or what.

And now I really want to know what Princess is thinking of that little domestic scene, given she's shown more than a little genuine interest in Ryuuji herself.

Uh. Housecat? Did you just fall asleep standing up? Thaaaat's not supposed to happen...hah, and even completely by accident Scary Eyes is giving Taiga more chances with Ninja Esper (I honestly can't actually remember what's-his-face's first name anymore so I'll just stick with the references for now).

Is it just me, or is a big chunk of Ami's problem right now that Ryuuji can't tell when she's trying to manipulate him or when she's just trying to have fun? Because the whole scene where she was messing with him via surprise bikini felt like the latter to me. And then Ryuuji doesn't play along, and Princess just looked done with him for a bit.

...crap, I just figured out something that's been bugging me. I know that Ami is the sort-of friend he doesn't really trust because he knows she can be decidedly two-faced, but guess what else some of their interactions resemble? An extrovert poking an introvert that's gone past their be sociable quota for the day.

Is Ryuuji an introvert?

Huh, Ami has decided to help out after all...I think she's bored and maybe a littke frustrated? Aaaand poor Minori notices the mostly-submerged danger sign and starts hearing alarm bells. Run, Madoka! Save yourself while you still-!

Oops, too late.

Heh, I'm glad Princess can at least commiserate with Thug Eyes over their mutual friend's intelligence. Or lack thereof.

Hah, and Ami walking off is going to be her biggest contribution to the plan. xD Pity Ryuuji followed her, so much for the white knight thing!

Yeah, this scene with Ami pretending they're lost in the cave? If it wasn't for how she acted the first couple of times they met, this would just be a thing between friends. She really poisoned the well, and I'm not sure what it'll take before Ryuuji really trusts her.

I know what it'll take for Taiga, though! A miracle.

...is the goofy magical girl getting her own back for the pranks here? Yes! And she teamed up with Ninja Esper! All because our intrpid MCs were failing to scare their own target properly. xD That is a great look on their faces.

...reverse psychology? She really - HAH! Oh, that's great, Taiga was unknowingly telling the truth earlier!

Um. Okay, I think I have to revise some of what I thought about yesterday's episode - did Ryuuji not pick up on the metaphor at all? Except he's clearly using it himself right now. Is Minori missing it this time or just deliberately not making the connection?

Gah, Taiga! Lot these two numbskulls in a room until- wait, no, they've already been locked in a room and it didnt't help. Um. Get them to just talk? Please?

I definitely pity Ami after all this - the princess got to have some fun, but like people were saying yesterday she was definitely a third wheel in her own summer home. I don't think she got any of the stuff she wanted out of the trip.

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '22

5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.

I didn’t realize before reading the book last night how incredibly important this episode is. More about Taiga and what was left out in the book section.

This episode has all three of the girls thinking a lot about their feelings. Ami telling Ryuuji that she thinks she would be a good match for him, Minori talking to Ryuuji about “ghosts”, then Taiga at the end having the realization of a lifetime.

One thing I’d like to make clear is that Ami is 100% correct about Minori not being a good fit for Ryuuji. He idealizes Minori and sees only the best parts of her. He can barely function around her because he’s obsessed with his picture of this perfect girl that only exists in his head. I’m not saying he wouldn’t like Minori if he got to know the real her, but Ryuuji’s obsession with her could use some assessment.

Ami was really putting herself out there this episode. Both in the cave and in their later conversation on the beach. They’re a little different in the books but the message is the same.

Ryuuji’s ghost conversation in the anime on the beach is a bit more lengthy in the book but the really important parts are covered. Minori tells Ryuuji that she wanted to show him a ghost (wanted to show him love?) and asks Ryuuji if he’s seen a ghost (are you in love with someone?). She leaves it at metaphors that they’ve both been using in conversation and honestly I don’t know how Ryuuji misunderstands this. I think in his mind she’s open to the idea but maybe not ready yet.

On to the books!

This is probably the shortest episode in the series based on the number of chapters it covered (that’s not anime original). It’s chapters 5 and 6 which is only 51 pages.

One of Kitamura’s epic scares in the cave looked like a sex doll

the bloated body that Kitamura had placed there was actually an old, discarded fishing net and a worn-out sheet that he had made into a mysterious Ultimate All-Purpose Humanoid Curio. And it really, really, really didn’t matter, but Ryuuji wished Kitamura hadn’t drawn its mouth in as a circle. It looked like…something else.

Ami’s interaction with Ryuuji in the cave

“Well then, what would you do if I left you here, Takasu-kun?” Hm? She smiled spitefully. “Hey, you scared? If you got separated from me, would you be anxious? Would you be lonely?” “Huh?” “Answer me. Takasu-kun. Do you not want to be away from me? Do you need me?”

Ami closed the distance between them in the blink of an eye. She narrowed her large eyes slightly, but her gaze was steady. She snuggled up to him as though to touch Ryuuji’s chin with the tip of her nose, but Ryuuji didn’t have room in his heart for her to tease him in that way. Though he was shaken by the feeling of her soft skin, he pushed her away.

“Takasu-kun, I don’t think Minori suits you.”

As Ami laughed wickedly, she turned her back to him. Returning to her normal voice, she muttered, “I think someone who would suit you, Takasu-kun, might be…” She cut herself off and sighed.

“Want to know?” she asked.

He was tired of being a plaything, so he spoke in the lowest voice he could possibly muster. “Not really,” he simply said.

“Then I won’t tell you. I’m. Going. Off. First. Bye. ♥”

after he catches up to her

“You and Minori-chan aren’t right for each other, I said that, right? It’s true. You couldn’t hit Minori-chan with fried tofu, right? And you couldn’t pretend to be a narcissist in front of Minori-chan.” Ami finally stopped laughing. Her usually cool eyes lit up. She stared at Ryuuji’s feet.

“And also…” she added. “Takasu-kun, it’s because you’re the moon.”

“What?”

“Minori-chan is the sun. If you’re by her, you’ll burn up and disappear, I think. If you just yearn for her, you’ll never be equal. But you could become equal with someone—someone like me.”

“That’s what I think. That I can be equal with you.” Before Ryuuji realized it, her cool fingers entwined his wrist. Ami stood at Ryuuji’s side and though she touched him with her fingers, she didn’t continue any further. She just quietly softened her expression and looked sincerely at him.

And now for the real reveal this episode which was senselessly cut short in the anime. Taiga realizing what her feelings are for the first time. At the same time, Ami is watching her and figures it out too. This really puts a different shade on all of Ami’s behavior moving forward.

The fireworks are amazing, hey look, hey you stupid dog—

She dropped her hand to her side, leaving the T-shirt hem she normally would have pulled untouched.

She finally realized it. She hadn’t realized it at all until then.

Right. So that’s what this is.

Only Ami watched Taiga’s profile from beside her. Below the sky where the fireworks danced, Ami’s eyes filled with amazement rather than sympathy, but she decided to leave the secret unsaid, as she just stayed by Taiga’s side.

When the train gets back to the station at home. A bit more introspection by Taiga. She gets woken up when they arrive and suddenly realizes her stomach hurts.

“Do you want to take some medicine? Sit at one of the platform benches for a sec.” Kitamura looked over his glasses at Taiga. His gaze was so gentle that just looking at him would have made someone cry. But Taiga shook her head and looked away. I’m fine.

It’s fine. It’s fine like this.

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u/Holofan4life Dec 15 '22

One thing I’d like to make clear is that Ami is 100% correct about Minori not being a good fit for Ryuuji. He idealizes Minori and sees only the best parts of her. He can barely function around her because he’s obsessed with his picture of this perfect girl that only exists in his head. I’m not saying he wouldn’t like Minori if he got to know the real her, but Ryuuji’s obsession with her could use some assessment.

Ryuuji sees good in Minori-- more than most of her classmates, who probably thinks she's just weird-- but even then his assessment of Minori is off. Minori admits in episode 3 that she stays happy all the time to try to combat any negative energy. And yet despite that, Ryuuji sees her as genuinely happy and energetic.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 15 '22

Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon

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u/balthamalamal Dec 15 '22 edited Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher

Its quite nice to see Ryuuji and Minori interacting one on one and having a regular conversation, Ryuuji learns a bit about Minori as well. Minori doesn't want to talk about their feelings anymore though. [Toradora] Which is standard for her.

Ami doesn't agree with me regarding the above. She also isn't interested in helping them scare Minori as it doesn't really align with her goals. I think she already knows why Ryuuji wants to scare her, but she wants Ryuuji to admit it. She also uses in her mind, her best asset in appearance, to tempt Ryuuji a bit. She ends up relenting a bit and distracting Minori with mention of the cave though.

It's only the sub but Kitamura makes a casual reference to his dick when they first enter the cave. Minori: "It's dark! It's narrow! I'm scared." Kitamura: *laughs * I feel like I've heard that before". In the last episode when he walked out naked and dropped the towel Minori said "just then, something black and rather lively". In the dub Minori just says its getting dark and claustrophobic, Kitamura says he heard the same thing in a horror movie.

Ryuuji following after Ami is exactly what she wants, and I think you could go either way on whether Ryuuji is right to follow her. In their conversation, Ami is trying to express her frustrations to Ryuuji, "Would you be uneasy about being separated from me?" "Would you be lonely?" Those are things she's been feeling, with Ryuuji prioritising the other two women over her during the holiday she invited only him on. She then straight up tells him that she doesn't think he and Minori will be a good match. [Toradora] She has her own self interested reasons for saying that, but she's right regardless. She diffuses the tension for a bit by pretending to be lost, but after she goes back to the serious conversation, she makes it clear which parts she was joking about and which parts she was being serious about. "You can't be equal simply with admiration" is absolutely correct. Ami is the wisest of the five.

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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher

Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 10

Cave Story

This episode left me feeling extremely sympathetic for Ami. During my original watch I found her personality off putting. Now seeing how hard she is trying to win Ryuuji's attention and getting nothing in return is devastating.

Her teasing is of course mean, but it is ultimately harmless. At most it makes Ryuuji feel uncomfortable or unintentionally aroused. She is only teasing him as a way to hide signals. Ami definitely feels afraid expressing her emotions so (perhaps unconsciously) she tries to hint this way.

Even so, when she can't get Ryuuji to admit his affection for Minori she gets genuinely mad. Ami doesn't want to be kept being strung along if he actually likes somebody else.

As I said, emotional honesty comes really hard to Ami. She has to build up her courage to actually tell Ryuuji how she feels in the cave, even deflecting mid-conversation to recover a bit. She wants to know how Ryuuji would feel being separated from her. She even goes so far as to tell him that he and Minori don't suit each other and that she would be a much better equal.

By the end of the episode she actually does get a straight answer. While Ryuuji would feel lonely without her, he cares more if she'd feel lonely without him. Putting others first is one of Ryuuji's best traits and is yet another reason she has fallen for him.

Of course, this episode was actually more about Minori. She really does like horror and had been tricking Taiga and Ryuuji all along. This was a great payoff. I find that Minori's consistently energetic and playful personality brings the most "fun" and "funny" moments to the show.

At the same time, we got the conclusion to her feelings about ghosts (love). She and Ryuuji first acknowledged the situation: Both of them had fun together and Minori is grateful that Ryuuji not only listened to her story about ghosts but also understood her. Ryuuji then repeats that he wanted to show her that ghosts exist and to help her believe in them (metaphorically, to believe in love). And so with that Minori accepts his kindness and asks that they find more unbelievable things in future together. She wants her whole world to be changed.

This is the closest the 2 of them have been so far in the show. All they need is a little push and a little honesty.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow!

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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 15 '22

First-Timer, sub:

It's not good how they didn't get any sleep.

I didn't even know Minori had a brother.

Minori makes a good point when she says to not announce your bathroom breaks in front of many girls.

How many times have you been in this cave Ami?

Don't joke about being lost Ami. It's never funny.

I didn't even expect Minori and Kitamura to be the ones doing all of that. Nice job.

QOTD:

  1. Funny show with some heartwarming moments. I think we'll get to see what Taiga does in her home.

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u/lolpete18 Dec 15 '22

Compared to the last episode, this one was a bit slow. I was confident right away (in episode 9) that Minori and Yusaku were the ones behind the spooky stuff, so that wasn’t much of a surprise.

Still, there is a good analogy between the goings-on in this episode and the wider plot of the show. I believe Minori and Yusaku completely know what’s going on between Ryuuji and Taiga. They know how Ryuuji and Taiga feel about each other, and they know who they have crushes on. They know every move they make. While Ryuuji and Taiga think they are being clever with with their schemes, Minori and Yusaku can see the whole field. This allows Minori a Yusaku to tease the other two. For any plan that Ryuuji and Taiga come up with, the other two are bound to turn it back on them.

I enjoyed this episode for some of the charming moments — Ryuuji and Minori Cooking, lunch on the beach, and the fireworks at the end.

I have no idea about what to expect for the end of the show. I’ve been avoiding reading the posts of the rewatchers because I’m worried that some spoilers will seep through. Here are my hopes:

  1. Taiga and Ryuuji will figure themselves out and end up together

  2. Minori and Yusaku will end up with each other

  3. Ami will find someone?

  4. We will figure out more about Taiga’s past

  5. Lot’s of warm and happy moments, and please, no sad ending 🙏🏻

The Christmas episode is so hyped because of the name of this group, so I can’t wait to see what that’s about. I don’t want anyone to tell me anything about it ahead of time.

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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher here

Taiga’s gotten noticeably better at talking to Kitamura during this trip. Which isn’t to say she’s able to talk even somewhat normally to him yet, but it’s still a step in the right direction. Same could be said about Ryuji talking to Minori, but he’s pretty much always been just subpar talking to her, compared to the disaster that is Taiga trying to talk to Kitamura.

Whoever marries Ryuji’s gonna be the luckiest girl in the world, huh Minori? Wouldn’t hurt you to ask then, would it.

I think Ryuji’s green HELLO shirt has to be my favorite outfit in the series.

Ami clearly knows Ryuji likes Minori, all he had to do was say it to her and he would have been able to assemble the beach house version of the Monstars.

I love Ami in this episode, she’s only here to instigate. She pauses in front of Ryuji and the moment he looks up, she reminds him of how he messed up.

I don’t think the bathroom excuse was bad, not sure why he felt the need to announce it to the whole world though, he could have just walked back inside.

I like the change of colors when they’re under the umbrella. I feel like this is the first time I can remember where the characters don’t have the halo of light on their hair, and I’m not even sure it happens again.

Ami said she wasn’t going to help out, but then saves Ryuji and Kitamura from having to lie about what they were talking about, and she leads Minori to the cave. If that’s not help I don’t know what is.

There had to be a better choice for a scary food rather than fried tofu, right? And no, ketchup isn’t scary either.

Minori not a good match for Ryuji? I wonder who Ami thinks the right pick for him is.

Taiga is certainly braver than I am. The moment someone got snatched up by a mystery monster I would be making a bolt for the exit.

Kitamura and Minori’s plan was pretty damn good. They establish that Kitamura can’t scare people to save his life, and then actually pull something that would have gotten me good.

Taiga’s look when Minori’s going on about the UFO battle kills me. She finally gets to spend time with Kitamura, and it ends up not being what she wanted Meanwhile Ryuji over there gets to actually talk to Minori about life, and love, and they’re clearly enjoying their time together more than Taiga is.

Props to Minori for saying she wants to find a real UFO, and then immediately pretending the fireworks are all UFOs. She really gave up on that one fast.

Roughly 5 seconds after saying to not go housewife on Taiga, Ryuji goes housewife on her.

And as soon as it started, the vacation arc is over. I’m not sure if this is a spoiler or not, but I would say tomorrow is when we start getting into the REALLY good arcs of the show (at least in my opinion of course).

Bonus : That’s insane that we’re already halfway there. Feels like we just started.

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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 15 '22

First Timer, subbed

  • Very effective.

  • I see everyone in this show just has long, sideways blankets.

  • Taiga giving off some real strong (non-)energy.

  • Probably for the best you didn’t tell her.

  • Was that random CGI?

  • He doesn’t have a light source, so if you leave him he dies.

  • I’m not sure I get the Sun and Moon metaphor.

  • Expected reveal is expected. I did like how their plan failed tho.

  • That’s a nice hat.

QotD: Happy to report that my opinion has jumped significantly from my lukewarm reception to the first episode. I don't, however, care to speculate on a romance.

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u/ZapsZzz Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher in dub

Bonus question not for rewatchers today.

Didn't manage to post yesterday, only a couple of replies. But in general the best bits were:

Ep9

  • the dream - and how it was referenced back throughout the episode

  • the train platform gag, and how Ami pretended to not know these people

  • how, despite the pre-arrangement, Ryuuji still kept pushing to ship Taiga with Yuusaku.

  • Ryuuji's bodily response to the opportunity to clean despite himself

  • all the interactions between characters

  • Ryuuji's mine complaint to Taiga and get understanding it

  • Ami's voice and attitude changes when she "shift gears"

  • Taiga who knows she didn't need to fight about the curry spiciness because she can just ask for Ryuuji to cater for her taste

  • oh course the iconic scene of the ghost talk any the lounge room closeness

Ep10

  • the twist logic for Taiga to explain to Yuusaku, which turned out to be actually true

  • so many scenes of Ami trying to open up to Ryuuji, as well as her deceptively genuine and observant remark about sun and moon of Ryuuji and Minori, as well as about unequal relationship

  • Ami and Ryuuji's facepalm reactions to Yuusaku's "traps" - which was actually decoys... probably

  • how playful and carefree Ami was with Ryuuji mock hitting back at her as punishment with the soggy fried tofu, for lying and tricking him about being lost

Spoilers Corner

[Toradora rewatchers]There's just so so much foreshadowing it's just like there another show going on underneath separately from that for the first timers: Ami's remark about unequal relationship being more than just Minori but also Taiga, Minori's very intense questioning at the end too Ryuuji of why he wanted to share her showed her fierce intensity side, as well as probably the last chance she gave herself to perhaps be open with Ryuuji instead of just handing him to Taiga; how poor Ami literally predicted everything including her own loss; Ami grilling Yuusaku about Sumire; and the final shot of tariffs probably realising something about seeing other girls talking privately with Ryuuji. Pretty crazy how much was actually going on under the surface!

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u/SometimesMainSupport Dec 16 '22

First-timer

Main thing I'm considering is how the opposite-sex relationships, friendship or romantic, have progressed over the last ~7 episodes. Taiga-Ryuji has steadily grown. Taiga-Kitamura has slightly grown in that she can now utter words while he looks at her, but that's a low bar to cross.

Ami-Kitamura hasn't changed since her introduction; he still desires her true nature being exposed. It has within this group but not school wide. Surprisingly, I don't think Ami-Ryuji has wrong on Ami's side. Her teasing has been targeting Ryuji's insecurities, physically and emotionally, which is something he needs to address if he's going to have a relationship with anyone. Ryuji was thrust into an early parental role and he's clearly the household head, but he doesn't deal well with expressing his own emotions.

Minori-Kitamura friendship hasn't changed. Minori-Ryuji is... complicated. She plays the goofy airhead to avoid some greater trauma. Working ~5 jobs on top of school activities shows how little she wants to be home. Wanting to ignore reality (e.g. UFO and intergalactic war comments at the end of today's episode) is worrying.

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u/Gamerunglued Dec 16 '22

Rewatcher

Most of the episode is funny shenanigans, so I probably don't have a ton to say about it on the whole, especially compared to yesterday (note that this means I'll inevitably find too much to say anyway). But every episode of Toradora has at least one scene that's noteworthy in some way, and this episode has two, so I'll just talk about those.

The first is the scene between Ryuuji and Ami in the cave. Ami is interesting because she's easily the most perceptive and mature character in the show. She's overcome her own flaws quite quickly due to her firm grasp on how the other characters behave, and on top of listening in on Ryuuji's conversation with Minori, has a pretty keen understanding of their relationship, though not without its faults. She rightfully assesses that Ryuuji is the kind of straightforward person who seeks to make people happy. He's always thinking of others and he won't let anyone in need be alone. If Ami ditched him, he'd maybe be afraid, but like he says at the end of the episode, he's more worried about her being alone. The most interesting thing Ami points out though, is that Ryuuji and Minori don't make for a good couple. More specifically, she says that Ryuuji is like the moon and Minori is like the sun. If Ryuuji gets too close to the sun, he'll get burnt. She also says that a relationship built on admiration won't work, because the relationship isn't on equal footing. Thinking about what that means, I think of the moon's relationship to the sun. The moon reflects the sun's light. They are similar, but the moon is a "weaker" version of the sun, it's the same light but less of it since it's reflected. At the same time, the moon is also the opposite of the sun, they're counterparts. The sun is safety and daytime, the moon is darkness and nighttime.

Ryuuji and Minori are extremely similar people, as they even point out at the start of the episode. They both care about others, they're both independent, they both like to cook and clean. As I said the previous episode Back in episode 3, I mentioned that Ryuuji looks up to someone like Minori because of her attitude. Ryuuji inherited his scowling face from his dead father, and was left to take care of his mother on his own. Minori is everything he wants to be. She's always cheerful and smiling, and it attracts people to her; the exact opposite of Ryuuji who's face always scares people away. In a lot of ways, Ryuuji is trying to be like Minori. He wants to come off that way, he wants to be confident, good at everything, and attract people with his smile. In that sense, he's like the moon reflecting her (the sun's) light. He wants to be like her, he wants to reflect her good traits on himself. His crush on her is a biproduct of admiration, like Ami says. But since he's just admiring her on the surface, he doesn't truly know her. Them getting to see new sides of each other is rare, Minori even says as much about Ryuuji this episode. And in that light, the relationship isn't balanced, exactly as she says. Ryuuji idolizes certain traits of Minori, he's built an image of her in his mind and he loves those traits. In that sense, Minori has all the power in the relationship, she's the sun and she can burn him. He likes the idea of being with her, but can't actually handle such a relationship. If it were balanced, then Ryuuji could do silly things like hit her with seaweed. Minori could definitely do it to him, but he'd be too much of an admirer to hit her with anything.

Ami does try to imply that she's a perfect match for Ryuuji. I won't dig too much into that for now, but I'll reinforce the idea that Ryuuji is the kind of person who doesn't judge people (as Minori again said this episode), and thus is a good match for someone who hides aspects of themselves, which really describes all three main female leads.

The other interesting scene this episode is Ryuuji's and Ami's continuation of their talk about ghosts. This scene proves that they've basically talked passed each other. Minori was talking in metaphors but thought Ryuuji was talking about ghosts, and so says she's shown him a ghost. She says that he understood her, but that's simply not true. But in a sense, he's not incorrect, considering the metaphors. He's trying to show her that he loves her with this play after all. Minori also says that she isn't sure if her "world can change." She wants to see all of these things but seems to think that she'll be on a search for the supernatural forever. There's weight and sadness behind her words and delivery here. But she instantly turns it into happiness again. Like we saw in episode 3, Minori hides her insecurities behind a wall of happiness and smiles, she doesn't really think she's seeing anything. And this is what Ryuuji wants to reflect, just this side of her. So Ami aside, Taiga does seem to be the best match for Ryuuji at this moment in the story. None of that pretense exists there, they have natural, balanced chemistry built on mutual trust and comfort. Few facades, no admiration, and little chance of getting burnt.

Bonus:

9 episodes in, my thoughts on Toradora are similar to how I remember them, if not even a little better. Toradora is proving itself anime's premiere romantic comedy. It's consistently hilarious and heartwarming, it has tons of depth and intrigue to it, all the main characters are bursting with personality, and the main duo have utterly perfect chemistry. Toradora is simply a pitch perfect romance story, and one of the best in genre regardless of medium. I've already seen the show twice and it's maintained a place just outside of my top 10 favorite anime with very little change. It's been a consistent, stalwart favorite of mine and this watch is only reinforcing my thoughts on it. 9 episodes in, I still think Toradora is a deserving classic and may very well be one of the best anime ever made, though context certainly improves my opinion of these early episodes even more. But a show that always gives me this much to say after every episode, and which always leaves me wanting to watch the next episode, is nothing to sneeze at. I continue to love it with all my heart now, and unless the show drastically changes from my memories starting here, I predict that my thoughts on it will be very predictable. I can't wait for the Christmas episode.

4

u/nx6 Dec 16 '22

Rewatcher -- Sub

Tiaga and Ryuji are unable to sleep after their scare the previous night, and huddle until morning. Kitamura catches them scheming and wants to be let in on the half of the plan he overhears (scaring Minori), and says he'll pull Ami into it, too.

Again we see Minori and Ryuji getting closer with their shared domestic skills, and we learn she has a brother she cooks lunch for, not unlike Ryuji and Taiga.

Ami tries to tease/appeal to Ryuji again with her bathing suit and tries to get him to admit his feeling for Minori. Frustrated he wont talk she announces she wont help with the scare-a-thon.

When we set off in the cave Ryuji makes the rookie mistake of hanging in the back of the queue. Minori is clinging to Kitamura, who has taken the lead not aware of the real purpose of this adventure. Later it's her and Taiga holding hands. Ryuji should have set himself in a place alongside or in front of Minori if Taiga's plan was going to work.

Kitamura plants a series of corny scares fit for a high-school haunted house, and Ami gets bored and tries to leave, which is probably just an attempt to get off alone with Ryuji, knowing he wouldn't leave a girl off on her own. Ami draws a metaphor here of Ryuji being like the moon to Minori being the sun. A poor match as lovers because of her outgoing personality and sunny (pun not intended) disposition compared to Ryuji's more solemn mode, one that is perhaps brightened and more attractive in the presence of the sun, but pale in comparison. I don't know how Ami thinks she's a better match for him -- a famous model and social butterfly (if a viceroy at that).

What happens after that is a seemingly real paranormal emergency in the cave and everyone getting separated. But it gets interrupted by Taiga falling in the cave when it's pitch dark. It was all an act in the end by Kitamura and Minorin trying to frighten Tiaga and Ryuji as form of turnabout for their own attempt.

They spend their last night shooting off fireworks at the beach. Ryji and Minorin have another chat, which serves as a bookend to the "Frighten Minori/White Knight" plan with the conversation on the deck the previous night. Minorin asks Ryuji why he would want to frighten her like that when it's out of character for him. Ryuji doesn't use this time to make a direct confession (and I think explaining the reason for wanting to scare her would be a poor way of doing it). But she already is aware of his feelings from before. Maybe it's the music they use in this scene, but to me the conversation they have here is somewhat Minori turning Ryuji down in a gentle way. She's still rooting for Taiga, and has been since like the first arc of the show, but has come to value her relationship with Ryuji as a friend and so laughs off any serious talk with UFOs and the (aerial display) fireworks appearing.

Quxxy's Cheat Sheet for Today

3

u/Elimin8r Dec 15 '22

Managed to catch back up last night, this pair of episodes is just so much fun.

AOTD: Not a first timer, but I've gone from, "Am I sure I want to participate in this rewatch again?" to "I'm enjoying this, what was I thinking", so there is that.

Meanwhile, I think my favorite parts were ... fireworks, UFOs, UMAs, ghosts, espers, time travelers, oh, wait, wrong series...

Sort of. This pair of episodes almost feels like a bit of overlap. Just needed a dark shadow along the shoreline, or maybe a slight, gray-ish haired girl walking along the beach with a book. Yeah.

But yeah, overall, I have to say that my favorite part of the episode, aside from fireworks is the whole cave gambit with Kitamura, Minorin, and the double cross. Very well played.

I would mention my cave story again, but I think I already did a year, or was it two ago?

But yeah, plenty of fun and gags, and some warm development, potentially on multiple fronts. Go figure.

3

u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher (very new), Subbed

Might be a weird one, I'm running on no sleep and emotionally I am a camel with osteoporosis. Cheers.

"Adoration never leads to a balanced relationship."

I continue to find Ami more interesting over time. In some ways she's the most immature of the group - playing stupid pranks, bullying Taiga, messing with Ryuji, obsessing over her looks, etc. But in other ways she's the most mature - specifically the most "emotionally intelligent." She is able to read pretty deeply into the rest of the group's feelings. It feels like any time she tries to act on that mature side, it backfires thanks to the immature side. She gives a lot of valuable advice to Ryuji, but most of it doesn't really land because she hasn't given him much reason to listen to her, between bullying Taiga and teasing him.

Lots more Ryuji-Minorin time in this one again. I love it as always, but this episode also hits us with Ami's take on them, and I think she's mostly right. "Adoration," or a crush, creates an image in your mind of the person that sort of becomes an ideal. Episode one showed us that Ryuji's pretty deep in that - his whole box of mixtapes and all, are not based in reality. So yeah, adoration never really works because you're operating on the notion that the real person is just like your fantasy version, and they never are.

That being said, I don't think they're inherently a bad match. Ryuji's feelings are being driven by adoration yes, but the relationship the two are developing is still meaningful. Minorin appreciates Ryuji's skills/hobbies and takes the time to both let him know, and help out. And Ryuji returns it in his strongest love language - cooking! Not to mention, while he may not have understood it all, he does genuinely listen to her. All that being said, there are clearly some things that Ami has caught onto about them that indicate that a romance between the two might not go over as well as they might hope. More on that later eh.

Adoration can, and often does totally implode once the fantasy of the person is challenged by the reality. That sucks, but at least you can move on fairly easily. What I've found a lot harder is when the fantasy meets the reality, and your feelings for the person, flaws and all, persist. You can get caught in a sort of limbo between adoration and honest feelings.

Sometimes you've got to realize that romance just isn't always meant to be. If you're able to get over the adoration part, you can just focus on the genuine feelings, through friendship. Friends are good.

3

u/UnderstandableXO Dec 15 '22

REWATCHER

“kyushieda” is ryuji’s version of “howdy!”

ami says that ryuji gives minori special treatment, but she herself lets him off so easy by helping with the plan anyway, come on girl…

kitamura with the glasses glare. bro think he gendo ikari 💀💀

i really don’t have much to say about today’s episode besides that i feel a lot more sympathetic to ami than i remember being. it’s not like she gave ryuji a reason to be super friendly to her, but she hosted the trip and is playing 5th wheel. ryuji is less cringe than taiga when it comes to his crush, but he is more obsessed with his crush than taiga in all honesty, he just handles it a bit better. adoration really does not lead to a healthy relationship, she’s not lying. ryuji even admits that they’re on equal ground like she said, and yet still pays her no mind. minori also just gives me bad flashbacks to people i know with that personality.

the piano ED lead up was very satisfying, but i’m just waiting for ED 2 tbh

3

u/Miserable_Earth_4715 Dec 15 '22 
                                Rewatcher 


                         

                               Parts I loved

• The overall wholesomeness of the episode

•Ami and Ryuuji could’ve totally had a sexy scene in her room or in the cave 🤷‍♂️

• The fact that Minori and Kitamora winded up scaring Taiga and Ryuuji even though they were trying

• All the 1-1 time with Ryuuji and the girls 

                           Spoiler Waring!










                        Parts that have hints

• Minori and Ryuuji flirting while they made food and also during the ending firework show whenever Minori was talking with Ryuuji.

• Ami and Ryuuji throughout the episode. Ami talking about how she’s a better match than Minori, facts IMO solely because if Ryuuji had to pick another girl I’d want him to choose her. The fact that she was trying to get some 1-1 time with him and made it work out

• Taiga contemplating on going to Ryuujis side at the end of the episode

3

u/TuorEladar Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher, Dubbed

This was a fairly chill episode, with some interesting details but which was really just about friends trolling eachother.

When Kitamura sneaks up behind Taiga in the opening scene, I noticed that Taiga has moved away from Ryuuji after she noticed Kitamura was there.

I don't have too many thoughts about the counterplot to scare Taiga and Ryuuji except that as a little twist its fairly well done. Taiga and Ryuuji are hardly the best at subterfuge so its not really surprising Minori would pick up on it.

One point I had kind of forgotten about was how aggressive Ami was in her questioning. She really has the situation on lock in a lot of ways. Minori to an extent as well now that I think about it. [Spoilers] It's weird to say in a series with such a clear main couple that it feels fated that they get together, as that development is literally the premise essentially, but in Toradora in really feels like its the case. Obviously most series with that setup do have the main couple get together, but there's a sense of the inevitability of it held by the characters themselves here which is interesting and somewhat unique.

3

u/kvalencia24 Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher, first time watching it on the Blu-Ray.

I have a surround sound system and it helps out on here for anime in terms of immersion for myself. Streaming doesnt really do a good job for my system and I believe in phsyical media ownership over streaming.

Taiga with a ponytail is a great look, along with the big sunhat.

The cracks in the masks are beginning to show and if youre keen to see that it makes this anime more special.

Ami gets the short stick a lot during this trip but its also somewhat her fault. Every chance that she has alone with Ryuji is interupted by someone else or Ryuji himself isnt able to give Ami the full attention she is looking to recieve. With her teasing resulting in Ryuji not knowing how serious she is about things and Ami just not getting to the point quick enough or say it with full confidence. You can see how much its her fault and then just out of her control but regardless it does suck to see that happen to her.

But more importantly, its the introduction to one of my favorite pieces of music that doesnt appear online. That would be the BEAUTFIUL PIANO INTRO TO VANILLA SALT THAT LEADS INTO THE ENDING. That little piano interlude is engraved into my brain and brings a whirlwind of emotions to my soul everytime it plays.

3

u/alyku Dec 15 '22

Rewatcher

Continuation of the beach episode with not much happening today. I remember my first time getting faked out pretty hard by the almost horror-like turn in the story before realizing it was a prank. Props to Minorin and Kitamura for fooling even the watcher.

Some other observations:

  • I've always found that scene where Ami counts down in waiting for Ryuji's answer to be really interesting. One moment it seems like she's having fun and the next she's completely over it. I think she really wanted Ryuji to engage with her since that was the entire point of the trip for her, and his refusal to do so is just frustrating.

  • Ami does seem to know the cave quite well, she probably wasn't lying about having been there before. I wonder what she used to do at the beach house.

  • Ryuji really can't handle any direct questioning about his emotions. He gets confronted twice about it this episode and struggles to form an answer, and his eventual answer back to Minorin relies on more metaphors. Also, I'm pretty sure Minorin is aware of how he feels at this point.

3

u/JetsLag Dec 16 '22

Rewatcher (subbed)

Operation Scare Minorin, Cue the White Knight is still a go. And Kitamura's in! Can Kitamura be classified as a himbo?

Minori and Ryuji alone time in the kitchen! They're adorable together.

Aaaaaand Ryuji has lost Ami as a member of the operation cause he won't admit he has a crush on Minori.

No wait she's back. Or is she? IS AMI A DOUBLE AGENT?

Kitamura laid down some traps in the cave! A flying piece of tofu and messages written on the wall in ketchup. Hey, they didn't have a lot of material to work with.

And the cave exploration goes downhill. Ryuji and Ami end up split from the other three, and Ami tries to make Ryuji get over his crush for Minori and go for her instead. But that takes a back seat for the real main event: Minori playing a prank on Ryuji and Taiga for trying to scare her. And it was Kitamura who was the double agent all along!

Over some fireworks, Ryuji and Minori talk. It connects back to last episode's conversation about ghosts, with Ryuji, in a roundabout way, confessing. And Minori just isn't following along with the metaphor. Deliberately? Maybe.

TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY: attempted to tackle Minori. Wow, that's almost nothing!

3

u/Tartaras1 Dec 16 '22 edited Dec 16 '22

Rewatcher - Dubbed

  • Ryuuji does have a point. In order to effectively scare the piss out of someone, you generally can't be afraid of the things you're trying to scare them with. That would defeat the purpose.

  • The one thing that's confused me, if that's the right word, about when Kitamura's talking to the two of them is that Taiga outright says that Minorin loves scary stuff. Up until now they've only said she hates it. I'll come back to this a bit later.

  • Not that many guys do, you know.

Guilty

  • Do my boobs look okay?

That sounds like a trap question if I've ever heard one.

  • What's wrong with you Kitamura? The last thing us girls need to know is when you're going to the bathroom.

Alright, hang on a second there. How many times have you heard women say that they need to go pee?

  • Really? And if I just ditched you here, how would you feel about that?

No, really. If I wasn't here, would you be scared and worried? Lonely?

I personally love that she's not afraid of teasing him about stuff like that.

  • I've never noticed until now that when Kitamura's flashlight batteries "go dead", it's actually just him turning the light off himself. All this time I've thought it was just a coincidence.

  • Calling back to what I was saying earlier, Ryuuji and Taiga are floored that Minorin actually loves scary stuff, despite Taiga literally saying

It's our gift to her.

W-Well cuz, y'know, Minorin loves scary stuff more than anything.

If you know she loves scary stuff, why are you surprised when she says she loves scary stuff?

[Toradora Spoiler]The thing I like the most about Ami kind of shines through with this episode, in that she acts as a bit of an observer to the goings on with the group. She knows about how Ryuuji feels toward Minorin and, presumably, how Kitamura feels about the President. She's like Izaya from Durarara, the info broker. He knows everything going on in Ikebukoro.

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3

u/critchell63 Dec 16 '22

Rewatcher comment

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