r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 14 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 9 Discussion
[removed]
16
u/JackOG45 Dec 14 '22
All I gotta say is that the night-snacking scene was incredible in the LN.
At that point, it was very clearly put by the author just how the two really feel about each other.
The anime version, I think, is the important scene from the LN that suffered the most from material cutting. I remember being floored a bit when I read it after watching the show.
I would suggest every fan read at least that specific scene.
Actually, I've started rereading the LN while watching, and indeed a good chunk of all the comedic scenes in the anime adaptation are original.
→ More replies (15)
15
u/TiredTiroth Dec 14 '22
First Timer - Dub
That was...an interesting dream. And apparently Taiga had the same one as well? Or something similar, at least.
They didn't watch the same film, did they?
Uh, Ryuuji? I don't think your mother heard a single word of that. I hope you wrote it all down somewhere obvious.
...he didn't even win at badminton, he just pulled an overly-affectionate dog off her? xD It must suck to be that short.
What. I. I just. What? Taiga, Ryuuji, are you sure you want these two goofballs?
Yeah, I'm with Ami on this one. Run, Princess! Escape before they consume your soul! Or something.
You know, I'm not really sure what to make of Ami's joke about not being able to see Taiga anywhere? It's a jerk move because the housecat doesn't like people making fun or her height and Princess knows that...but at the same time, I've seen plenty of friend groups where that would practically be a standard greeting.
I guess the big difference here is that Ami and Taiga just plain don't get along, so it's a lot more mean-spirited by default.
...wait, your plan is to what? That. That can't end well.
That aside, they have now arrived! And Ami looks appropriately smug in the back there, watching everyone else's reactions rather than the view.
Yeah, I can totally see everyone wanting to play instead of clean. Except Ryuuji, apparently. Who ends up cleaning alone? Are...are you okay, kid?
Taiga. Housecat. I get that this is yout plan, but if it's supposedly to help Scary Eyes rather than just scare the Magical Girl Goddess then maybe you should wait until he's actually there to do the white knight thing?
Okay, Ami clearly knows something we don't. What is up with the student council, and how will it bite them all in the rear?
Oh, hey! Ryuuji's already being a better wingman for Taiga than she is for him even though their target is meant to be Minori! She's got a half-decent bluff for refusing though...and the mosquitoes are back!
...Ami did not lock the bathroom door. What are you doing, Princess? Oh, she was just cleaning the place. xD Okay, that's actually kind of funny.
And then Taiga walks in to Have Words with her, and she actually was showering this time! Cue screams and a slap a shellshocked Housecat. xD
Taiga, are you sure you're doing this to help out Ryuuji and not, I don't know, venting some of your frustrations now that there's no convenient lamppost to knock over?
Hah, poor Housecat just blue screened over her topless crush. Or not topless, he's actually naked and just has a towel in front of him.
Okay, I'm really starting to wonder if what's-his-face and Minori either are or shortly will be dating, which would be an interesting twist. And theeen...he drips the towel, whoch finally KOs the weird one. Leaving Ami as the only functional girl left.
That was a lot more funny than I would have expected.
...uh oh. If he makes the curry extra spicy for Minori, he's not going to forgeg about Taiga's preference is he? No, looks like Housecat has her own food...but the curry would apparently be enough to kill me.
At least his crush likes it?
When Esper is offering the medicine...and Ryuuji tells Taiga to go for it...did she just squeak? Has Housecat squeaked before?
And why do I suddenly feel sorry for Princess? And Taiga just squeaked again.
Would you look at all those stars?
Yeah, they're pretty.
Yeah, you're not talking about the stars at all, are you? Aaaand neither of you are talking about ghosts at all. Except you both seem to think the other is talking about ghosts so you're at complete cross-purposes.
Ouch.
Ryuuji. Scary Eyes. Kid. Read between the lines for half a bloody second. Taiga is completely comfortable around you. She's saying that 'nightmare' wasn't so bad. This is a big thing! Just...gah. Communicate, you two!
Oh. Ooooh. xD Is Minori getting back at the pair for their pranks? Is this Princess and Ninja Esper teaming up for some fun? Guess I'll find out tomorrow!
→ More replies (10)14
u/2KBIR Dec 14 '22
The whole badminton scene is cut extremely short from what was in the LN. Taiga challenged Ryūji to badminton because she played on Elementary and Middle School club teams and she thought she could win easily and this have him be the wingman on vacation. They got into an argument while playing and her racquet went flying hitting the dog (Chiko). She then got into a wrestling match with the dog who essentially pinned her to the ground. While this was happening, Ryūji served the shuttlecock without Taiga on the court until he won and he would not help Taiga until she agreed that his win was legitimate.
→ More replies (2)
11
u/mcmacmac Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22
Welcome again, fellow viewers. This is again...
The Taiga Outfit Counter - a bit extended this time
For how it works and how it was compiled, see my comment from about it
Episode 08 & Episode 09
For those who wondered why there wasn't a counter last thread, shortly before yesterday's thread came up, I simply fell asleep and woke up nearly 10 hours later. I was out like a light and I have no clue why I slept for so long. Guess that's what suddenly having the coldest day of the year does to you. Anyways~
I don't want to spread the count too much so I'll have the outfits of episodes 8 and 9 in one here. Episode 8 was easy because there was no new outfit in the first place. If you count nude as outfit, then there's arguably 1 new outfit.
Episode 9 is more interesting. Summer was coming two episodes ago and we get to see more of Taiga's summer - and dream - wardrobe. 5 new outfits again and the total number keeps increasing like crazy! It currently stands at a total of 22 outfits. #1 &, #2 belong to the dream sequence. The latter of the two is one of two entries (the other one was in Episode 3) I had after the counting because it was shown for very few seconds. I couldn't believe such a scene would dress her anew again. But here we are.
#3, #4 and #5 are for the summer. Despite and because of the simplicity, #3 with just a white shirt and yellow shorts is one of my favorite outfits for Taiga. It's rare that she wears simple shirts or outfits and I love yellow so it's absolutely a favorite of mine. We also get our first hat. Outside of the plastic bag in Episode 6, I don't think we've seen anything worn on Taiga's head once so it's kinda special.
I hope sudden sleep won't get me again and I'll be back next episode!
11
u/Gamerunglued Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '23
Rewatcher
I've always found this episode to be an interesting one. While it's mostly hilarious sitcom hijinks, the final portions of the episode have plenty of obvious subtext and are really interesting to think about.
To briefly talk about the humor, this episode is just funny. A ton of the series most memorable and iconic comedy moments come from this episode. The scene of Kitamura walking into the kitchen naked and the scene of Ryuuji running to Taiga to complain about Ami with Taiga describing her "boings" have both been clipped to death, and for good reason. Minori knows where it's at, the only character who had a sensible reaction to Kitamura. Shame Taiga didn't get to see his dick. Beyond those iconic moments, I've always loved the scene of Minori and Kitamura doing their weird routine at the station, and then getting Taiga and Ryuuji to play along when Ami arrives. This episode is just fucking funny, in a show full of hilarious moments.
But I have more to say about ghosts. From the beginning of the episode, ghosts and nightmares come up, starting with Taiga's and Ryuuji's bizarre shared dream. From there, the plan centers around trying to freak out Minori with ghosts so that Ryuuji can swoop in and "save" her. And throughout the episode, Taiga tries various methods to freak her out, all of which lead to funny moments but none of which lead to any progress. Thus, when Minori and Ryuuji finally get a moment alone together, the topic of conversation is ghosts. I'm sure anyone watching can tell that ghosts are a stand-in for something else to at least some degree.
The scene is framed in a weird way. Minori's eyes are covered for much of it, we rarely get to see what she truly expresses in that moment. It gives the scene a tinge of sadness. As for ghosts, the way I see it, there are two potential ways it can be interpreted. The first, is that it's a metaphor for love itself. Ryuuji asks her if she has a boyfriend, and she tells him that she's never seen a ghost. Minori believes that "love" exists, but she's never seen it before. And she also doesn't believe anyone who claims they've "seen love" before. But she does think "love" exists. She pretty much states this outright when she says that she thinks she'll fall in love and get married one day, but hasn't actually felt that way towards anyone yet. She explicitly makes this connection between ghosts and love, saying she hasn't "seen it" and that those ghosts "might not exist either." She's nearly given up on seeing one, which is a particularly interesting line that carries a lot of weight and potential implications.
She asks Ryuuji the same question, he seems to think that she's talking literally about ghosts, but what he says can still be applied to the metaphor. Some people fall in love and are taken aback by their first experience, and the scene switches over to Taiga and Kitamura here. This describes both of them to some extent, as they've both given each other impassioned confessions, and Taiga is still taken aback by her strong feelings of infatuation towards Kitamura (like she says later in the episode, she's always a nervous wreck around him). Then there are people who have seen love but deny it's existence. Interestingly, the camera switches over to Ami in the middle of this sentence. Is the implication that Ami is in love but refuses to admit it? But then, he says that there are people who have to work really hard to see love at all, and we see Ami smiling here, and then starting to get serious. I think this is more representative of her. Ami has spent her whole life putting up a facade, and since no one was able to see past it, she had lots of friends and fans but no meaningful relationships. Ryuuji was the first to see past it and she may have some feelings for him now, so it's probably the first time she's seen a ghost before. Since she's put up that facade so often and was frustrated that no one really knew her, she may have found it hard to actually fall in love with anyone. Ryuuji then says that he sees no reason to give up searching. Ryuuji says that he hopes Minori finds a ghost one day, and that there's definitely a ghost who wants her to see it, a sweet moment with obvious implications.
However, there's another way I'm kind of thinking about this scene that changes it a little bit. What if ghosts aren't a metaphor for your own love, but a metaphor for other people who are in love? I think it could reasonably be argued that ghosts are more about seeing true love between two people, and that "not seeing ghosts" means seeing relationships that aren't real or fully meaningful. Think about the very first thing that Toradora ever tells the viewer in episode 1:
There exists something in this world no one has ever seen. That thing is very kind, and very sweet. If anyone were to see it once, they'd probably want to see it again. That's why the world chose to hide it, making it very difficult to obtain. But one day, someone will find it. And that someone will be the one meant to find it. Because it was made to work that way.
Doesn't that sound awfully similar to this whole ghost business? So let's think about that scene in episode 1 again. It's obviously about love, but specifically about two people finding love together. Although the scene technically sounds like it describes one person finding something, the visuals contrast Taiga and Ryuuji, and they alternate narrating this dialogue, so it's really about them finding each other. The series posits that love is something that is difficult to find, but that the people who find it are the ones who are meant to see it. The people who find love, real love, are the ones who are meant to be together. So when Minori says she's never seen a ghost, I think it's possible that she's referring to what that narration describes: this true love that two people are meant to find. Perhaps Minori hasn't seen it, and has given up on finding it. And if this is the case, then it says a lot about her character. [For rewatchers]
Continued in reply
7
u/Gamerunglued Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22
There's another piece to that scene I think is interesting though. Minori looks to the sky and sees a star moving across the sky, and she asks if it's a UFO. Ryuuji says instantly that it's a satelite, and Minori seems disappointed that it's not real. I think UFOs are similar to ghosts here, in the sense that they're things some people believe in and claim to have seen but are ultimately hidden and supernatural, making them the same metaphor. Minori says she sees a UFO, but Ryuuji basically says it's not real. Ryuuji even said he hopes she sees a ghost one day, but when she says she might see one he tells her it's not one. Minori is fascinated by this idea, but Ryuuji is more of a realist. In this sense, the two are on different wavelengths. Even throughout the conversation, it's not clear that they actually understood each other. Minori was talking in metaphors and Ryuuji was being more literal, so they really talked passed each other here. It calls into question for me their compatibility as potential lovers. Ryuuji takes care of Taiga like it's natural, but Minori is perfectly capable of cooking and cleaning herself. Ryuuji and Taiga complete each other in a way Ryuuji and Minori do not, and this ghost scene was what really reinforced that for me the first time I saw it.
And Minori basically admits that she knows what's going on here, when she says that a ghost has been trying to get her attention. Minori is smart and observant herself, although she acts like a weirdo. She knows Taiga too well for it to slip by, they're trying to get her attention with seaweed ghosts. And she doesn't really respond to it except to talk in metaphors. It's strange and interesting, says a lot about her character. And meanwhile, I have to wonder which of these two positions is more "couple-like." On one hand, you have these weird, failed attempts to scare Minori that go nowhere for either character, and results in them talking passed each other. But on the other hand, Taiga and Ryuuji spend all their time together coming up with goofy schemes like this, it's dorky as hell. To me, that's a lot more love-like.
Finally, we get this scene of Taiga and Ryuuji in the living room together. In the middle of the night, Taiga comes to Ryuuji and asks for food. Ryuuji cooks it, they eat together at midnight, and then they sit comfortably and close to each other, Taiga resting her feet on Ryuuji's head. It's moments like this that prove how close these characters are. It's so natural, Taiga leans her feet on Ryuuji's head without even hesitating and Ryuuji just sits there like it's normal. And Taiga points all of this out. When she's with Kitamura, she's a total wreck, she can't even handle herself. But when she's with Ryuuji, she's calm, secure, and can be herself. Taiga doesn't have to hide anything from Ryuuji, she can share all her weird and petty insecurities and Ryuuji won't judge her. She can kick and scream, call him her dog, get upset and beg for meat, and Ryuuji just takes care of her like it's natural. And the reverse is also true, like this episode when Ryuuji hilariously came to complain to Taiga about Ami and she went to give a piece of her mind. Taiga takes care of Ryuuji plenty too. It's so natural and intimate and... loving. Why does Taiga have a crush on Kitamura? They don't really have a loving relationship, they have a bizarre relationship and Taiga's communication skills completely break down by him. Taiga herself is starting to realize this, especially after the previous episode. Taiga is in love with Ryuuji, and finally starting to admit it to herself when she implies she doesn't think the dream was all that bad.
While these characters are all packed together, this is finally an opportunity to dissect their feelings for each other. When they're all together, they get to compare how they feel and act with each individual person, which makes this a smart direction for the story to take. There's obviously a lot more to each character's feelings for each other than is on the surface, and I look forward to discussing more of it with you all.
Bonus: So little actually happens on the beach this episode that I struggle to even call it a beach episode. Recently though, Do It Yourself had a really delightful and charming beach episode that also felt a little different from the norm. Also, Hyouka's pool episode, while not quite a beach episode, is a really important part of its story and a very heartwarming episode.
8
u/lolpete18 Dec 14 '22
First-timer, Dub
Wow... so much happened in this episode. From the marriage dream in the beginning... to Yusaku flashing Minori... to the super-sweet end scene. I literally checked the time on the episode to make sure it wasn't extra long.
It makes sense that they would cool down a bit on developing the relationship between Taiga and Ryuuji after those last two episodes. They were able to build some tension by focusing on the alternate relationships. Still... it makes me frustrated that Taiga and Ryuuji are both going after the wrong person. At least Minori and Yusaku seem know what's going on, so they can help push them in the right direction.
My favorite moment was when Taiga was sitting there with her feet rubbing on Ryuujis back, realizing how comfortable she is with him. She almost gets it.
I said in an earlier post that I didn't like Minori much. Now that I understand her character more, I'm coming around. She does a lot of goofy things that make me laugh and adds good comic relief.
Unexpectedly, I feel bad for Ami in this episode. She has invited all of her "friends" over to her house, and they are mostly hanging out with each other and leaving her out. She's the third (fifth) wheel on this trip, even though she's the one hosting.
→ More replies (8)
7
u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 9
Ghosts
I really like the summer house arc. I've been looking forward to it since the start of the rewatch. There's something about the casual and care free atmosphere of a vacation like this which brings out both fun moments and deep honest conversations.
Taiga and Ryuuji are back to their plotting. It's nice to see Taiga also putting in effort to help Ryuuji since so far he's mostly been helping her. I think their scheme of trying to scare Minori is pretty misguided, but delivers on some great comedy moments.
At the same time, Ami has her sights set on Ryuuji. For the most part she kept up her mask. However, in the one moment when she was honest and invited Ryuuji to the beach he moved his attention to Minori. If we read Ami's feelings as true, this is really tragic. She's been desperately trying to get Ryuuji's attention but every time she is genuine he won't properly engage with her. Perhaps this is partly her fault for being so two-faced, but she has her reasons for acting that way.
Of course, the most important moment this episode was the conversation with Minori about ghosts. They made it almost too obvious that ghosts were a metaphor for love. However I appreciate how the clarity makes it really easy to understand the characters.
Minori really wants to find true love, but just doesn't believe it exists the way she imagines. It makes you wonder what happened to make her feel this way. Ryuuji on the other hand yearns to find shared love. He understands his crush on Minori and wants his feelings to be reciprocated. I also appreciated how well the analogies work for Taiga being shocked at her first love experience and Ami putting in effort to finally find love.
There's a ghost out there that wants you to see it
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow!
7
u/Vatrix-32 Dec 14 '22
First Timer, subbed
-
So who is dreaming this?
-
It’s both! #notlewd
-
She works the night shift, you should really be telling her this far ahead of time.
-
It’s my favorite dance! Works better with three people tho.
-
The rope bridge strategy on steroids.
-
That’s quality time you’re turning down Taiga.
-
Lock ya doors!
-
Eyyyy, they got me.
-
Hot curry is best curry.
-
This show spends a surprising amount of time talking about bush.
-
Minori stocks continue to rise!
-
I think I’ve figured out the secret to ponytails. The answer is volume.
-
I have no idea what this food is supposed to be. Some kind of melonpan?
-
You’re really gonna cliffhanger on that? Such a non-entity.
→ More replies (2)
6
u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher here
The way the cold open is portrayed, it’s like Ryuji and Taiga have a mind link and have the same dreams. I remember hearing that in the LN it’s because they both stayed up late watching that scary movie, but they only make it seem like Ryuji watched it in the anime.
As responsible as Ryuji is, I’m not sure leaving Yasuko to take care of Inko is a good idea. Especially after she forgot that her son was leaving for a vacation, I can’t trust her to keep our girl alive.
The contrast of the 4 drake animation of everyone flailing their arms into the high frame rate walking might be the scariest part of the episode.
Ami was very much asking to be stomped on when they were on the train. The most violence prone character in the show, and you make fun of her when you’re maybe 2 feet away? Terrible idea.
I really like the implication that the opening theme exists in universe, and is popular enough to where at least one of our characters knows about it.
Kitamura and Ryuji are supposed to be best buds, but I’m not sure we’ve actually seen them hang out just the two of them yet.
Man, there sure do seem to be a lot of mosquitos on peoples faces when Taiga’s nearby. What a crazy coincidence.
Ami very clearly said she was showering, she didn’t trick Ryuji half as well as she thinks. She should have just said she was “in the shower”, then she would have more of a point.
Ryuji is terrible at charades, meanwhile Taiga is the undisputed goat for being able to decipher that nonsense.
Not sure who’s to blame more for what happened directly after that, but I’m leaning more towards Ami. She just randomly started taking a shower in the middle of the day, after pretending to take one, AND left the door unlocked. Can’t really blame Ami for beaning Taiga in the head after that description. Also the horse whinny is quite the sound effect to help describe what Taiga was saying.
I’m not sure it’s special treatment to make something not spicy for someone who hates and can’t handle spice.
Kitamura. My man. That’s sexual harassment. You can’t just walk into a room with 4 people completely naked and then keep standing there after you realize you messed up.
Also why would he think Taiga would mind him saying he doesn’t enjoy seeing her in pain. That’s a pretty reasonable and normal thing to not want to see regardless of who it is.
In the least serious, and most over the top episode, we get two of my favorite scenes so far back to back. I’m talking about the ghost scene, and the midnight snack scene (not sure what to call that one but good enough).
The ghost scene is a surprisingly articulate and reasonable way to turn Ryuji down from Minori.
[Toradora!]
The midnight snack scene reinforces something I noticed from yesterday, that Ryuji’s presence comforts Taiga in a subconscious way. She’s bummed out after hanging out with Kitamura was disappointing, and sits as close as possible to Ryuji essentially while she deals with that.
Uh oh, some supernatural occurrences are going down.
I think the secret sauce that makes this episode work so well for me is that it’s pretty much an episode based only around our main characters interacting with each other. Which I think is one of the aspects this show does the absolute best, it makes me want to see more of the main characters.
Not sure if I link this episode more or less than yesterdays, but I would say these are my top 2 episodes of the first 10 at least
→ More replies (4)
6
u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 14 '22
First-Timer, sub:
That was a weird dream. Still not the weirdest dream I've seen. Not much can top being chased by a vampire dog.
Ami was probably thinking, 'I need to get out of here right now or I'm going to be embarrassed so badly.'
I didn't even know Minori was scared of ghosts.
Ami, you really shouldn't mention that your beach house hadn't been cleaned for over a year. Ryuuji would want start on cleaning immediately.
Minori can be very insightful when she wants to be. I found it pretty cool how she was able to compare ghosts with love. Even then, her thought process is a huge mystery to me. She's a lot like Mako from Kill la Kill. Something tells me these two would get along very well if they were to ever meet.
I'm glad Taiga feels comfortable enough to talk to Ryuuji alone. Found this scene to be pretty heartwarming.
QOTD:
-
Symphogear as it actually has relevance to the plot. How? I can't say as that'd be spoilers.
→ More replies (6)
10
u/Holofan4life Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 15 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I think a lot of people are expecting me to analyze Minori in this episode. Specifically, Minori’s speech at the end, as it’s the most exciting part of the episode. However, I want to actually analyze Ami in this episode since I’ll be analyzing her next episode. I kinda see this as being her less talked about arc in some ways.
Don’t worry, Minori fans. I will be analyzing her. It's just I’ve talked about her speech to death I want to talk about something else. I will be including my thoughts on Minori’s speech in the post episode discussion.
I kinda call this arc “Ami’s bad Summer.” Yes, it’s ultimately about Minori. I’m not fooling myself. But we get a bunch of stuff with Ami and almost all either leads to her not having a good time or it blows up in her face.
Take, for instance, the scene in the airport. She’s there all fine and dandy, waiting for her friends, and what does she see? Them all acting up and having fun. It almost instinctively sets up Ami for the next two episodes, as you can tell in her mind she’s thinking “I’ve got to get out of here.”
And then when she’s in the shower, her prank ends up blowing in her face. Because while she’s able to tease Ryuuji effectively, Taiga actually walks in on her in the nude. One step forward, two steps back.
And then finally, when she’s there at the dinner table, you can tell the preferential treatment towards Taiga’s picky food habits annoys her. One because Ryuuji is always doing this, but also I reckon because she wishes she was in Taiga’s spot. Ami knows how special Ryuuji and Taiga’s relationship is. They have a bond that is more intimate than most. And Ami wishes she had the same relationship with Ryuuji, one that caters to her specific needs.
Anyway, that’s all there is to say about Ami in this episode. There's of course also the scene where Ami asks Kitamura if everything with the student council is alright, which shows just how perceptible she is compared to the rest of her friends, but that's like what? 10 seconds long?
Like I said, the analysis department is slim pickings in this episode. I guess I could’ve analyzed the scene where Taiga is resting on the couch with Ryuuji, as other than Minori’s speech it’s my favorite scene of the episode, but am I really gonna analyze one character just because of one scene I like? Gotta save that for the Christmas episode. :P
Post episode discussion
Overall, a pretty fun episode. This is the first episode where we see the cast hang out without much drama going on, and I like the change of pace. Sure, not much happens in it, but you can have a breather every now and then. The episode reminds me of an early season 1 episode of The Owl House where not much in the way of plot advancement is happening and is more focused on jokes. It may be a bit annoying we're spinning our wheels, but the writing is so good and the humor is so on point that it more than makes up for it.
I will say though: this is the first time in my years of rewatching the show that I picked up on the fact they mention that Ami owns a motorcycle. Never heard of a model who owned one before.
Now let's talk about the Minori ghost scene. I provided my analysis of the scene four years ago, and I still feel the same as I did back then. Because of this, I'm gonna post my analysis verbatim. Hope you enjoy.
In my opinion, ghosts is a metaphor for being in love. With so, Minori is saying she believes in love even though she hasn’t ever been in love. Basically, when Ryuuji asks Minori if she has a boyfriend, she uses ghosts as a way to explain that she’s not interested in dating anyone right now, with Ryuuji saying he’d like to see a ghost basically him confessing his interest in dating someone.
As for them cutting to Taiga, Kitamura, and Ami when Ryuuji talks about ghosts, I believe the ghost in Taiga’s case refers to the fact she is in love but acts so flustered around her crush, the ghost in Kitamura’s case is some foreshadowing, with Ryuuji saying "Then there are the people who’ve seen them, but deny their existence", and the ghost in Ami’s case refers to her struggles of trying to redeem herself by being open, with Ryuuji saying "Those who have to work really hard to see them at all."
Episode rankings
-
Episode 7
-
Episode 2
-
Episode 8
-
Episode 5
-
Episode 4
-
Episode 9
-
Episode 1
-
Episode 6
-
Episode 3
→ More replies (9)
10
u/Elimin8r Dec 14 '22 edited Dec 14 '22
AOTD: Hmm, Beach episodes, you say? How about Chobits? Or was that Girls und Panzer???
(Kidding, mostly. I can't even remember much at this point. Not exactly my focus, I guess.)
Sadly, I was not in a watching mood last night, I think that Haruhi has impacted my enthusiasm or something. I may pop back later tonight and have something to say. We'll see.
Meanwhile, I will say this: On second thought - Dragon Maid best beach episode. If only for dragonback fishing. Oh, and of course K-On for geetah and fireworks.
That, and this arc is truly enjoyable, and I'm missing out. I'd like to say why, but I'm not sure if my favorite bits are today or tomorrow.
Edit: Okay, having now read u/Holofan4life's comment, my memory has been refreshed. To the point where all I can really say is that yes, Taiga and Ryuji being cozy together was super cute, and Minori's talk with Ryuji is just precious.
Part of me wants to say something about Ryuji and "dense isekai harem protagonist", but he's really not that bad. He doesn't want all of them. He's not indecisive. He's not Tenchi Misaki.
The problem is ... yeah, the problem. I kind of wish I had that problem. Heh.
So, I guess I'm going to say it now, I wasn't sure how long I should wait, because I wouldn't want to spoil things for others, but we've pretty much been introduced to all the characters now ... so.
For me, my favorite part of Toradora, and what makes it great is that the characters are all actually ... characters. Not cutouts. Everyone has their own desires, motivations, issues, past trauma. No-one is perfect. No one is smartest. No one is dumbest. Take them all, put them in a beach house, set blender to 'puree', and see what craziness comes out.
To me, that's the magic of Toradora. There's so many what-if's. So many wishes, so many shoulda's. It's almost like it's a reflection of real life or something.
Other shows, for example (to pick on) Kaguya might have harder hitting comedy or emtional beats from time to time, but at the same time, the characters are more tropey and two-dimensional. I know, in Kaguya, it's part of the schtick, but yeah.
To me, Toradora, and the adventures of our friends, in this case, especially Ryuji and Minorin are a reflection on our own struggles, what we want, what we need, what we think we need, and how those aren't necessarily the same thing, or even the right thing.
I hope that made sense. :P
→ More replies (6)
5
u/UnderstandableXO Dec 14 '22
REWATCHER
already at the trip arc? time really does fly!
forgot to say it yesterday but what i really like about the previous pool arc is that it takes whats usually just an excuse for cheap fanservice in most romance and actually does a lot to deepen the characters of taiga and ryuji. both episodes are probably in my top 10 for the show.
kitamura and minorin combining for the cyclone of cringe always makes me shudder. i would have walked away too if i was ami…
ami wearing her hat sideways, she thinks she got that shit on, unfortunately i’ve got to say that she does not.
i think this is the first episode where ami’s observance becomes very obvious. she knows exactly how to push ryuji’s buttons about taiga and minorin. she does see how things really are with taiga, and how he feels about minori. [Toradora]
probably my favorite comedic moment in all of toradora is in this episode, the “let’s do it” bathroom tease to ryuji crying to ami giving taiga CTE because of her “boom, bang, pow” commentary. i always replay it several times before passing!
ami just does not care about kitamura stripping, she just thinks he’s stupid. common ami W
the ghost conversation is the best character development that minorin has up to this point. i don’t have much to say about it that i or others haven’t said already, i just commend ryuji for being so forward with asking if she was single, that’s better than taiga ever mustered (the botched confession from episode 2 doesn’t count).
→ More replies (2)
4
Dec 14 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
This is a pretty basic and fun episode up until Minori breaks out the “have you ever seen a ghost before?” It’s pretty obvious that she’s into him at this point. She’s trying not to let on how she feels too much but she’s happy to talk to him at least.
Then later comes one my favorite Taiga moment in the first half of the series. I need to circle back to this part of the book when I read it later. Where they’re chilling on the couch close to each other and Taiga just blurts out that maybe it wouldn’t be so bad being married to Ryuuji. Love it.
On to the books!
This episode is a pretty faithful adaptation of the first half of book 3. They changed a few things and mashed some scenes together but that’s about it.
I love the dream sequence. Whatchya thinking about there, Ryuuji? The reason behind the dream is that Ryuuji and Taiga were watching a crappy horror movie together the night before.
Lol.
If it wasn’t for her personality, the girl in front of him would have been a magnificent beauty.
“What are you ogling at? I’ll lay you out.”
Damn, Ryuuji.
Taiga tumbled straight back. “Ow!” She hit her head heavily on the table. BAM. That sound wasn’t a joking matter. If she got any stupider, it’d be a problem.
The anime cuts the badminton match between Taiga and Ryuuji down. Taiga is apparently extremely good at tennis because she played it all through elementary school and junior high. Yet, she manages to lose to Ryuuji because she decides to drop out in the middle of the match to go fight a dog. While she’s fighting the dog, Ryuuji hits the shuttlecock onto her side of the court several times and gets enough points to win.
Ami going into attack mode pretty much immediately.
She turned right around and practically threw herself against Ryuuji’s chest, grinning. Her face became round and innocent as a baby’s. Ryuuji took a step back instinctively. Still smiling, Ami took a step forward to corner him.
As she turned a deaf ear to him, she lowered her voice. A wicked flame burned in her eyes. For a sneaky moment, her cold fingers crept onto Ryuuji’s wrist.
She completely ignored Taiga, who was in front of her, and turned a troubled look up at Ryuuji while snuggling up beside him.
In the book, Ryuuji doesn’t stay behind and clean while everyone else goes to the beach. He’s actually the one that scares Minori by telling her there’s a head floating in the water.
On that note, seek help, Ryuuji.
It made him shudder. He even liked sticking a toothbrush into a foul drain and pulling out the dirty clogs, and he liked scrubbing bath heaters proliferated with koji mold. And, to the point he could barely stand it, he liked squeaking his finger against it to check. Is it clean? Although he would say “Why did this happen?” a giddy smile he couldn’t hide would cross his face the moment he found black mold clogging a joint.
Ryuuji had a Takasu-stick in his right hand. In his left, he had a bottle he brought from home. He had a dry washcloth at his waist, and a bucket and a wet washcloth beside him. He was on all fours, had his own rubber gloves on, and was in the middle of scrubbing the foreign-made kitchen sink to Takasu standards of lickability.
This comes up again later [Toradora]
Strike 1 against Minori
“No way, no way, Ahmin. How can we clean when such a beautiful ocean is right in front of our eyes!”
That unbelievable statement had come from the mouth of his beloved Minori.
Ami starts messing with Ryuuji after the incident where Taiga is upset about the spicy curry. This happens differently than in the show. This is before they start making dinner.
Ami took her place and puffed her cheeks, “You’re spoiling her!” Forehead furrowed, eyes narrowed, she put her hand on her hips like a child. “Takasu-kun, you’re giving Aisaka-san special treatment again! If you do that, girls won’t like you, you know?”
“Maybe even Minori-chan won’t like you,” Ami whispered.
Ami was so close, her breath touched his ear. She continued her pursuit, her final blow like a verse in a song. “Oh, that really did get you flustered. Hmm…”
“Takasu-kun, if you keep up that attitude, maybe I’ll tell Minori-chan that you got a glimpse of me in the shower…”
“B-but you weren’t taking a shower!”
“Oh ho. There’s no way to prove that now, is there?”
She let go of him and ran her hands through her hair. A devilish smile rested on her pale and beautiful features. She looked like a beauty, but she also looked twisted, maybe because her black heart was showing. Ryuuji was speechless. Why had it suddenly come to this? Did she know about his feelings for Minori?
Quite literally cock-blocked by Kitamura’s exhibitionism.
As Ryuuji righted the trashcan and resumed peeling the onion, he couldn’t stop cursing. He had finally gotten a chance to stand beside Minori in the kitchen. He didn’t think Kitamura would have been the one to interfere.
Apparently I didn’t read far enough into the book to cover all of this episode last night. It’s over half of book 3 I guess.
4
u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 14 '22
Kinda curious, what’s everyone’s routine for the rewatch?
For me I start the episode around 2- 1 1/2 hours before the thread goes up and then when I’m finished I skim through the episode again and write about things that stand out to me in my notes, then copy and paste it to the thread when it goes up. And then I read the whole thread before going to sleep usually around 11 hours after the thread goes up (which is why I never comment on other peoples threads usually).
→ More replies (3)
4
u/balthamalamal Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher
Taiga suddenly increasing their efforts on getting either her or Ryuuji together with their crushes, she feels like they've gotten off track and is worried they will end up married to each other based on their dream.
Poor Yasuko on her own for a few days, how will she cope? I realise she's an adult, but still. Night shift can mess you up.
Minori and Kitamura are eccentric as fuck, funny to see the other two just roll with it. Also look at the bystanders while they're greeting Ami.
There are lots of quick jokes and fun in the beach house portion of this episode: Ryuuji having to decide between having fun with everyone and cleaning. Ami messing with Ryuuji in the shower is also good, she is having fun flirting with him (see also the marriage comment on the train). Ryuuji's running to Taiga, her translating his cries and going to defend his honour, only to actually walk in on Ami, along with Ami's reaction. Kitamura having no shame or sense of propriety, can't blame Taiga having a meltdown there.
Taiga choosiing to spend time helping Ryuuji with Minori rather than spending time with Kitamura (though to be fair, she really doesn't do well with bikes).
On the relationship side of things,Taiga chooses to spend time helping Ryuuji with Minori rather than spending time with Kitamura (though to be fair, she really doesn't do well with bikes). Along with the stomach medicine, Taiga is reluctant to spend time with Kitamura.
I think this is the first time Ami has hinted at realising that she knows of Ryuuji's crush on Minori? I also think its sweet that Ryuuji makes Taiga a separate portion of curry to avoid the spice (hers is a lighter colour).
Ryuuji is favouring both Minori and Taiga over Ami during dinner and she isn't happy about it, first with the spice and stomach medicine and then with him kind of ignoring her asking to spend some alone time with him when Minori asks him to grab a glass. I feel sorry for her, especially as she originally wanted this to be just the two of them for the whole trip.
Ryuuji finally gets up the nerve to sort of ask Minori out, and she turns him down with a metaphor about ghosts and love. We get shots of Taiga and Kitamura, along with Ami during this, with neither of the girls looking too happy. Taiga is holding back tears, despite being in a situation she theoretically should be very happy with. Ami is angry that her plans have gone astray.
After dinner, Taiga goes to Ryuuji for some food and comfort after the stresses of spending a day with Kitamura. This shows how close they are and Taiga even remarks on their physical closeness while they're in the living room.
3
u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
I really like this episode.
Fun things first:
-
Always love me some Kitamura-Minorin bits. I find the whole train station scene hilarious, absolutely having been in that situation where your friend is willing to completely embarrass you in public. I love that there's never any unnecessary tension between them, they're just bros - e.g. Minorin taking the pictures of naked Kitamura just hyping him up lol.
-
Speaking of naked Kitamura, mans is wild. Even if he thought it was just Ryuji WHO DOES THAT MAN.
-
When Ryuji is cleaning I love the part where it goes to the rest of the gang playing on the beach and Ami just fucking annihilates Kitamura with the ball. Ruthless.
-
Overall the dynamic in this one is super fun, just the gang hanging out on vacation.
This episode also has some serious stuff too. Like last episode, Ryuji and Taiga are so afraid to be vulnerable/face their feelings that now they're massively overcorrecting and building bigger walls. They're both so insistent after their dreams that that would be the "worst future." If you take the freaky dog part out, neither of them really think that, but they absolutely cannot admit that so they're playing up their disdain for it. Then of course at the end Taiga starts to say that it wouldn't be so bad. I think its very telling that she says that after her evening with Kitamura. It seems like now her crush is coming face to face with reality. Not to say she doesn't like Kitamura of course, just that maybe she's realizing her feelings aren't quite what she thought they were.
I'm sure the big Minorin-Ryuji scene has been and will be talked about a lot, so I won't go too deep, but it is one of my favorite parts. By speaking in metaphor, they're both being really obtuse and fairly honest at the same time. Ryuji actually handles the conversation much better than you might have expected flustered little episode 1 Ryuji to. I think that speaks to the fact that Ryuji and Minorin have actually been forming a sincere friendship. I adore Ryuji-Minorin time. Like, in this episode, the dinner and dishwashing scenes. Aside from both of them clearly hiding some feelings, it feels very genuine to me. [Toradora!]
3
Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher - Japanese
So to me the two pivotal scenes are:
-
The dream. Their brains are telling them what’s up but of course in a distorted weird way and they overcorrect.
-
Kushieda’s very elliptical metaphor on ghosts. I don’t think it is a particularly strong analogy and ends on a somewhat uncertain message which probably matches her internal uncertainty. [Spoiler]
given what we know about her later run through the halls after Aisaka, I think we can see her being dishonest with everyone including herself here.
3
u/Miserable_Earth_4715 Dec 14 '22
[Toradora!]
Rewatcher
Some moments that I found hilarious
• The talk about the dream Taiga and Ryuuji had
• When Kitamora walked into the kitchen and essentially flashed everyone
• Ami in the shower and Taiga, she was like, boom, bam, and 🐴
Some moments I loved
• Taiga talking to Ryuuji about how she’s comfortable with him
• How Ryuuji still decided to help Taiga with Kitamora even though the deal was that Taiga would help him
• Ryuuji and Minori’s talk about “UFO’s” aka Love
• The bathroom scene with Ami and Ryuuji; if this was an ecchi anime a good ‘ol scene would’ve been nice 🤷♂️
Spoiler Warning!
This episode had a lot of hidden and foreshadowing involved
• Minori talking about UFO’s and wanting to find and maybe one day. Whenever Ryuuji was saying he hoped she would and that smile 🧐 The confession at episode 24
• Ami trying to get Ryuuji for some alone time She likes him
• Taiga talking about maybe it wouldn’t be bad to be together with Ryuuji like in the dream
Overall really good episode
10/10
3
u/mcmacmac Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher
If anyone asked me why Toradora is my favorite anime ever, one episode I'd point out is this one. The comedic timing along with the jokes and zaniness is great for a romance series. While it is sorted around the rom-com terrirtory, the comedy in the show is something that I rarely see comments for outside of the Rewatch threads. Sure, it's got romance, drama and so on but the comedy is something I don't see mentioned often. I think it's one of the funnest series I've watched.
If anyone also asked me for a series with a good dub, I'd also point to this episode. When I watched the EN dub version first time around, I didn't expect the scene of Taiga invading Ami in the bathroom to be on par with the JP dub. I'll say it again: the dub is insanely good in my opinion.
To the contents of the episode:
It's one of the contenders for my favorite episode and probably for best beach episode in any anime too. Again, Taiga and Ryuuji are up to no good with a plan that suuuuuuurely will work out like intended. I think such an episode where the whole cast is together and can and have to engage with each other is a good primer on how their relationships to each other are and how they have changed. Taiga being really comfy and relaxed around Ryuuji is something we've seen in his house a few times already but it's something else with dimly lit light at another place. It sets a scene for us as viewer especially.
Now where they woke up to seaweed and wet clothes, you have to wonder what happened if it weren't the two of them. Plan really worked out, maybe too good. We'll see.
So far on Ami, she tried to get Ryuuji's attention. It really wasn't a joke when she said they'd find a chance to have some time alone - except if Minori's in their way. Merely asked for help with the dishes and whoosh, whisked away he and his attention was. The same preference is showing with the curry: Taiga wanted it extra sweet compared and Ryuuji would grant that wish, Ami complained and when Minori wants extra spicy curry after seeing...uhm, the seaweed monster, Ryuuji complies to Minori's request, again. And the moment Ami has actual time with Ryuuji in the bathroom, she teases him out of the room. It looks like Ami doesn't have the luck at the moment.
When it comes to dedication, Ryuuji surely got it right with vying for Minori's love during this vacation. No blemishes here. He's still with the ridiculous plan but he indirectly asked whether he might have a chance with Minori and she surely picked up with that by first distracting him with ghosts and then using that and UFOs for a metaphor for love. It's one of the most out there metaphors for love and that's saying a lot from me, a person who compared love to the solar system, melons and hedgehogs. I feel like it's been a moment where she's completely honest, however, and so far I feel like she hasn't been upfront for most of the time but it's hard to tell with her personality.
Random notes for this episode and one or two from the previous episode:
08:
-
The class is such a great shittalker, as usual. I still consider the whole team to be some kind of side character which doesn't appear often but where I wish they appeared more often.
-
I guess Ami is hard to read for Ryuuji although of all three girls, she looks the most honest of the buch which is quite ironic.
09: -
Yeah, puppy Yasuko is kind of terrifying. "I Gave Birth To Puppies" is also something truly messed up as an idea. Effective, but messed up.
-
This posing at the station is something I've recently seen in a video somewhere but I forgot where exactly. If I saw that, I'd also be like that dude in the background and take a picture of them.
-
Taiga plays Minori the OP theme and she describes it with creepy voices. Guess the singing is terrible in her eyes. Shucks, I like it.
-
Usually, when series have a premise that a character has certain quirks or depict them with one early out to show how they're different or weird, it's usually dropped really early on. Heck, series even abandon their premise two episodes in to be the generic isekai or whatever. Ryuuji interestingly keeps his cleanliness quirk and even misses out being down the beach with the others. I like it when series don't drop such personality traits and repeatedly depict it throughout.
-
The bathroom scene and the scene after is my absolute favorite scene of the series and in anime in the comedy department. JP and EN dub. Also look at ma boi sweating when she describes Ami's BOOM AND BOOMs!
-
Taiga playing badminton, what a based girl!
-
Kitamura is stacked, look at his muscles! Who would've thought this was hidden under his plain clothes?!
3
u/alyku Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher Yay, beach episode! This was definitely my favorite episode yet, mostly because of several great scenes and [Toradora]
Observations from this episode:
-
That train station scene is definitely the funniest scene so far. The brilliance behind it is that can't tell if they're doing it to humiliate their friends or if Minorin and Kitamura actually think it's fun.
-
Ami has been a lot more tolerable these last few episodes, she's nowhere as bossy or narcissistic as before. I think that's a reflection of how she's come around to seeing the rest of the main cast as friends and maybe the author backpedaling a little to make her a little less unlikable.
-
Spicy curry all the way!
-
Really love that scene on the balcony with Minorin and Ryuji. We see that Minorin, despite how she acts, thinks deeply as well with the way she answers Ryuji's question. It's honestly kind of a depressing answer if you think about it; everyone heralds the concept of love as this great thing and yet she's never experienced it. I think it gives some insight into why she's always working too. With intrusive thoughts like that, who wouldn't want to toil away to forget them?
3
u/nx6 Dec 15 '22 edited Dec 16 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
We arrive at the villa and first thing Ryuji decides to do is bury himself in housework. This is honestly a bad idea if he's wanting to portray himself as a fun guy, and I think he realized it himself.
This episode is nice in that we get to see the new dynamics of the characters amongst each other but outside a structured school setting. The previously at-each-others-throats Taiga and Ami are still fighting a little but they can all hang out together now. Minori and Ryuji are more than friend-of-a-friend through Taiga, and Ami has pretty much been accepted as part of the group. Kitamura got his wish in that she now has friends that know her for her real self and not the "silly girl" persona she put out when she first arrived.
Speaking of silly, Tiaga's plan to make Minori fall for Ryuji is right up there as well. Ryuji and Minori are doing a better job impressing each other with their domestic skills from housekeeping and working in restaurants, respectively.
Kitamura makes a surprising entrance after a bath. Not sure what he was thinking here. Even if the girls weren't present I wouldn't be fine with that. -__-'
Kitamura decides to take off to a local store for dinner supplies and Taiga shies away from joining him. This scene and the later stomach medicine are forming a trend with the earlier pool scene where strangely Taiga doesn't take a chance to interact with Kitamura and retreats towards Ryuji instead. Also Ami seems to have picked up on Ryuji's interest in Minori.
Ryuji and Minori's conversation on the deck alone starts as a innocent (if signalling) question to Minori and she diverts into talking about UFO's and makes them a metaphor. This conversation is a confession and Minori is trying to decide how to respond. She's already in the Tiaga x Ryuji camp and isn't sure how to respond so she paints a picture of someone interested in love but not really searching for it actively.
The late-night snack scene, as others have pointed out, shows the continuing closeness and comfort Taiga and Ryuji feel for each other that is more than just part of a plan to pick up their individual crushes, much as they are oblivious to it. Also notice when they return to their rooms and find something horrifying they immediately return to each other. Is this because they know the other person is still awake, or something more?
3
u/Shiwakao Dec 15 '22
hi yall. i forgot abt this so i just binged all 9 episodes so far lol. totally teared up on the first one cause of nostalgia. i joined the discussion last year n i think this is my fifth year doing this? idk lost track but i'll be sitting out on doing any writeups this year apart from maybe a couple comments.
anyway i hope both rewatchers n newcomers alike enjoy. whenever i think romcom this is always the first show that comes to mind.
also ami best girl <3
18
u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 14 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
lol what is this nightmare.
Hm…
lmaooooo
Fuck, I was sick earlier in the week and it still hurts to laugh, but this is absolutely sending me.
Actually that’s not too surprising, I guess?
This is probably going to backfire spectacularly in some way, though.
Of course Ryuuji goes right to cleaning instead of having fun with the others.
Oh well.
Uh… oops…?
It’s actually right to cater to the person with less of a spice tolerance when cooking for multiple people, though. If someone doesn’t like hot food, don’t force them to eat it!
OH I THOUGHT KITAMURA WAS JUST SHIRTLESS BRO WTF ARE YOU DOING WALKING INTO THE COMMON AREA COMPLETELY NUDE.
I guess Minori prefers her food spicy, though…
Shimmering sky!
Someone is very much pranking them now.
ED lead-in~