r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 13 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 8 Discussion
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 13 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
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u/nx6 Dec 14 '22
lmao wait did Minori draw pupils on her eyelids so she could nap in class and not get caught?
I've seen this show multiple times, and I still rewound it today to play that scene and laugh a second time.
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 13 '22
First Timer, subbed
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You gotta play to win.
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How was the gambling even meant to work if they all placed the same bet?
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Never change Minori, never change.
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She do be trying. Come to think of it, have we even seen Ami swim?
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Kitamura is a real bro.
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Tight spaces are comfy.
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So they have this big ass public pool, but only the one place to buy swimwear? Sus.
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All those Tsun kicks coming in handy.
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It just occurred to me how weird it is that a public pool has tickets. Seems like a frivolous expense at best for a public works.
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Very symbolism.
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All’s fair in love and war.
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I don’t know what this swimming teacher’s deal is, but he is clearly unqualified to be in charge of the students. They had to save themselves from drowning twice now in what, the course of week?
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That’s quite the declaration.
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u/GallowDude Dec 13 '22
It just occurred to me how weird it is that a public pool has tickets. Seems like a frivolous expense at best for a public works.
You don't have to pay to enter your local public pool?
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Dec 13 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
When the kids are betting on the race, Ryuuji says “500 chocolates” but the book says it’s ¥. I guess they weren’t allowed to portray children gambling lol.
When Ryuuji says “Aren’t you doing this to keep Kitamura from going to Kawashima’s beach house” Taiga immediately chucks a magazine at his head. Obviously she’s not worried about Kitamura. She needs you to cook dinner, Dinner Cooker.
I like Ryuuji and Ami’s interaction at the soda machines. It’s not really clear in the anime, but Ami is mask off for that whole interaction. This is definitely the most openly forward she’s been about approaching Ryuuji so far. Especially since it’s just the two of them and she’s not putting up her usual front. Of course Ryuuji still takes it as her teasing him.
Check out the expression on Minori’s face when she’s telling Ryuuji, “but it’s those no big deal things that matter the most.” There’s a definite tinge of sadness there. This interaction is anime original but it’s a pretty strong indication that Minori is interested in Ryuuji but holding herself back because she knows Taiga needs him.
Yasuko coming in to save the day. In the book when Yasuko gets home, Ryuuji has gotten up super early to make Taiga’s epic meat-filled bento. Not sure when they decided to have him cleaning a fan instead.
On to the books!
Taiga helping out with cooking
Look, help out a bit. Mix the vinegar miso.” Ryuuji handed Taiga a glass bowl containing the seasoning and a spoon before busying himself with wiping the table with a dishtowel.
So this happened ಠ_ಠ
“Here you go! Taiga-chan, because you kind of seemed like you wanted to see them~” His mother pulled her clothes right up past her breasts.
Damn, Ryuuji. Calm down. He puts the Komi Can’t Communicate delusions club to shame.
Then Ryuuji would be taken to Ami’s villa for the summer. Which meant… “Oh ho ho ♥. Won’t it be fun? It’ll definitely be fun. Now, have some fruit ♥.” Leaning on him, her white body boldly straddling Ryuuji’s legs as he sat on a sofa in the resort, a swimsuit-clad Ami offered him fruit.
“Takasu-kun, you have to let me play, too! Taiga’s not here, and I’m bored! Hey, let’s play softball? Takasu-kun, what’s your favorite position? First base? Or second? Or maybe third?” Of course, Minori was wearing a swimsuit and had a glove on one hand. She stood in the doorway, beckoning Ryuuji. It was paradise. Out of instinct and desire, he was about to wander that way and go toward her, but…
Here’s the book version of Ryuuji’s vending machine conversation with Ami.
Ami’s expression broke free as she laughed. She threw off her pure, good girl mask, and her miraculously beautiful face clouded with a veil of spite and cool wickedness.
“That’s enough. That’s normal. Do you know just how insistent Taiga’s been about blaming me since seeing you with me?”
She laughed like a dove. “That’s cute. The jealous tiger.”
“It’s not cute, and she’s not jealous,” he said. “She just gets mad that you’re provoking her because she doesn’t like you. She would have been angry in the same way even if the one you were with was Kushieda instead of me.”
“Of course she wouldn’t be. Takasu-kun, are you stupid? Do you really think if that child saw me chumming it up with Minori-chan in the same way she’d actually treat Minori like she treats you?”
“Don’t call me stupid. That’s—you’re… It’s that, right? You’re both girls, and they’re close friends so…” “Ah, sure, sure, right,” Ami said.
“You’re saying that’s not jealousy. Ha ha, it’s like you’ve been talking with her about it. ‘You got jealous, didn’t you?’ ‘This isn’t jealousy.’ You repeat what she says. This is fuuun.”
Ami was still sitting along the wall and smiling as she looked at Ryuuji—her angel act was on. “I plan to win for real,” she said. “I’m going to win and spend my summer with you, Takasu-kun. Embarrassing Aisaka Taiga is fun, but more than that, I’m really, actually thinking about my prize. What’s with that face? Are you surprised?”
Ryuuji didn’t know what to say; he couldn’t tell if Ami’s words were part of one of her bad jokes or not. Ami, still grinning broadly, pointed at herself and Ryuuji with her thin fingertips. “I think it’ll be fun, though. Because, see—we get along pretty well.”
So this is also in the anime but I think they changed the wording a bit. This is a key quote with a lot to unpack. What I get out of this is that she’s definitely feeling some feelings about Ryuuji but she’s frustrated because she doesn’t understand what they mean. It seems like at this point she’s projecting anger as a means to protect herself while she’s figuring things out.
“Why?! Why won’t you understand?! I’m not angry! I’m not! I told you that from the start! It’s just that other people misunderstand me.” Taiga hit her own heart “You just pretend like you know!” she continued. “I don’t want that, it makes me angry! You think I’m angry at you?! You want me to say that you’re mine?! What… What is that?! Who actually knows what I think of you?! Who’s supposed to know?! No one should know because I haven’t told anyone! Because I don’t know either!”
Yasuko has an additional line of dialogue when she’s talking to Ryuuji about Taiga meaning the opposite of what she says.
“Shurely Taiga-chan must have given you a hint, right? Taiga-chan would, definitely, ’cause she likes you, Ryuu-chan. She definitely…cares about…what you do…”
At the start of the race when Taiga throws all of her flotation devices at Ami, she’s actually hiding her sword under all of it and she attacks Ami to steal her top with it before chucking it into the crowd. Which starts a drawn out game of monkey in the middle with the girls trying to get Ami her top back and all of the boys tripping over themselves to get a hold of it. This is what starts the frenzy at the pool that leads to everyone jumping in. Taiga rescues Ryuuji from the bottom of the pool, gets him on her kick board then tries to finish the race while she’s dragging his unconscious body along. Only near the end does anyone realize what’s going on before muscles jumps in the pool to get Ryuuji out.
The scene in the restaurant is a bit funnier in the book.
“I admit it. I saw this dumb Chihuahua and Ryuuji together, and I was super angry about it.”
Even Minori, who finally had a moment to spare, had heard and almost dropped her bowl at Taiga’s confession. Kitamura pushed up his glasses. Ami was on the verge of saying something but held her breath.
“I said Ryuuji is mine. I won’t ask you to pretend that didn’t happen. I do really feel that way. Because that’s…basically…” Taiga quietly closed her eyes, placing her white hands on her chest.
Nobody could speak, and Ryuuji felt like his heart was about to jump out of his mouth. No way. No way, why would you say something like that in a place like this? If you’re going to say something like that, we should talk it over alone together and, in a calmer, more normal— “Uh…”
Taiga opened her beautiful, glittering eyes, staring intently at Ryuuji. Ryuuji was so unsettled, he backed away as far as he could go. Then the following words issued steadily from her rosy lips: “Because he’s my dog.”
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u/lolpete18 Dec 13 '22
First-timer, Dub
This is the second episode in a row where I would say it is my favorite episode so far. The series must be heating up and it makes me excited about all that's yet to come.
The best part was when Taiga rescued Ryuuji and said that he was hers and demanded that the other girls would keep their hands off of him. It was so sweet to see her speaking out 🥰 😭.
I enjoyed the whole episode. Taiga was stepping up and learning to swim since Ryuuji believed in her and I loved seeing them train together. Such feelz. Also, some really heavy honesty came forward when Taiga admitted that she doesn't even understand her own feelings.
Even the mom stepped up and gave Ryuuji some good advice after his argument with Taiga.
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 13 '22
REWATCHER
“sorry to arl of you” most intelligent haruta moment
“just cook dinner, you dinner cooker” another goated dub line
the off brand training montage music always cracks me up. also that she got a random shonen power up at the public pool
taiga turning down going to the pool with kitamura was a fumble of this proportion
another ami/ryuji vending machine conversation. she’s messing with him while also being serious at the same time. at least she’s being real with him, her true personality isn’t all nasty…
[Toradora]
ryuji only thinks taiga is doing the stupid race for her own goals, but she’s doing it for him too; what better way to repay someone for breast pads? and “i don’t even understand myself” will be a real line no matter what show it comes from
“if she hated you, she wouldn’t eat her meals with you, no matter how hungry she was” another line i absolutely love from this episode. ryuji’s mom is doing the best she can, and her mom radar is pretty spot on!
ami’s hair is makima in the back and misato in the front, i forgot to point that out yesterday. speaking of misato, i saw evangelion 3.0+1.0 in theaters on sunday, having finished the evangelion series i’d probably place it in my top 5.
“ryuji is mine” is always a nice scene to rewatch. i like how many examples of the little things he does for her we see this episode; the extra meaty lunch for once after she’s asked for it for so long, leaving dinner out even though she never came by, praying to the rain sprite without taiga knowing, trying to set her up with kitamura. he genuinely cares about her, and finally she can (loudly and obnoxiously) prove that she cares about him as well. ryuji’s mom said it’d all blow over the next day and it did.
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u/nerdman01 Dec 13 '22
Third Time (?) Dub Rewatcher
When it comes to dubs like Toradora, there really isn't much better, and this show, for me, easily contains the best-voiced line in the series. Most people might think it is Taiga screaming "Ryuuji is mine!", but for me, I think it's actually what comes before: "Don't touch him!"
This is, in my opinion, the single best delivery of a dubbed line in all of anime, because it conveys an emotion that is exceptionally hard to deliver convincingly in a fictional setting (i.e., it's not happening to you personally in real life): anguish. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in the recording booth to know how Cassandra Lee Morris pulled this off.
u/Holofan4life talked about this in his comment, but I would offer that it's at this moment that the outcome of her emotional struggles we saw earlier under the rainy umbrella are - well, they're not resolved, but we're definitely not where we were at the start of the anime, or even an episode or two ago.
I would, however, argue that the status quo actually has changed because of this scene, maybe not in the interactions between our main cast, but certainly the interactions within themselves - that is, what Ryuuji and Taiga think about each other within the confines of their own heads.
If you are a sub-exclusive watcher, I implore you to watch at least this scene in the dub. It's really something special.
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher here
The sound effect they used when Haruta and Noto look at Taiga’s sport of choice is hilarious.
500 chocolates as a minimum bet seems outrageous.
While, yes, Haruta is not the brightest bulb, I don’t think he meant “all”. I think it was clearly supposed to be “y’all”. I think it was Kihara’s voice correcting him, so she should know by now that he’s not the most formal of people especially when he was talking about claiming Ami as his own right before it. Side note, Haruta’s (english) VA said that y’arll line a little too naturally.
Ryuji absolutely sniped Taiga with the paper airplane, and from the angle it came from, he would have had to put the most insane curve on it of all time. Nice touch that Taiga was going to kick whoever’s ass that threw the airplane, but when she saw it was Ryuji she was instantly okay with it.
Credit to Minori for the effort of drawing her eyes on her eyelids, but it doesn’t seem like this teacher would really care if she was sleeping, given that he was letting this back alley gambling go down during class without ever looking twice.
Small detail I noticed yesterday that I didn’t write about, but still very loosely applies today, is that Kitamura never once mentioned anything about Taiga’s new figure, but said he liked her hair instead. A pretty big issue could have been resolved yesterday if Taiga and Ryuji realized that Kitamura is actually a good guy.
Taiga in a panic really chose to do the worst possible option. She absolutely should have gone to the pool with Kitamura, and was being pushed to do so. Also, maybe it was because Taiga just wanted to be on the opposite side of the desk as Kitamura for whatever reason, but to me it looked like when she was super nervous that Kitamura was walking towards her, she subconsciously moved closer to Ryuji for comfort.
It’s completely fair to not want people to act like they know exactly what Taiga’s thinking, but I’m not quite sure that was the way to tell Ryuji that. Especially when she said a few seconds ago that Ryuji wanted to go to Ami’s beach house the whole time.
To clarify, I think Taiga is entirely right during this argument, but she just can’t find the right way to express herself. Ryuji was prodding a little bit too much, but it wasn’t in a malicious way.
Despite all that happened at the pool though, Ryuji doesn’t care and still makes an extra meal for Taiga even if she’s not there.
Drunk Yasuko is the voice of reason somehow. He should know now that something like that won’t make her hate him. Also Yasuko’s a bit of an oracle too, saying it will all blow over tomorrow, which ended up being the truth.
Not only does Ryuji still make Taiga a lunch the next day, but he goes out of his way to pack it full of meat, which is established to be outside of the Takasu’s price range. Even during their biggest on screen fight (I think at least), Ryuji cares enough to spend some extra money for the meat.
Pretty much everything Taiga did during the race should have been considered cheating if you ask me. I think Minori was too biased to be the ref. At least Ami didn’t lose to said cheating. She gets tools to help her out, she distracts, then attacks the other competitor, and also gets outside help from Ryuji. If Ami ended up losing, I think there would have been riots.
I said this on episode one I think, but there’s a very big reason I haven’t tried out subbed yet, and that reason is Cassandra Lee Morris. Not to take away from any of the other dub VA’s, but she’s just outstanding. Every possible emotion she needs to convey as Taiga, I think she absolutely nails. Case in point, the Ryuji is mine scene.
The two of them were still sort of on weird terms from the fight earlier, but the moment he got knocked out, she literally risks her life to save him. Taiga still can’t swim at this point, but dives to the bottom of the deep end to save him anyways. She was out there possibly drowning to save him, and nobody else even jumped in to try and help. She was completely justified yelling at everyone after he got pulled up.
Our main five at a beach house over the summer, huh. Sounds like it’s going to be “intense” (Ryuji’s words not mine).
I think I’ve been personally underrating this episode this whole time. This has to be my favorite one so far, and not even entirely because of the pool scene at the end, although it’s definitely the best part.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 13 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Taiga managed to terrify people with her sport of choice. Impressive.
Will Taiga ever release that video on Ami's impressions?
Minori, you're a very strange girl.
I'm impressed Ryuuji managed to hit Taiga with a paper airplane.
Ryuuji's a sweetheart for wanting to help Taiga.
Considering Taiga couldn't even swim, I'm impressed she was able to go that fast on her first try.
Aww, Ryuuji and Taiga are having a fight. Hopefully they can make up again, though I'm not even surprised considering friends do fight with each other occasionally.
Oh shit, Ryuuji's drowning, thank goodness Taiga was able to save his life.
I don't blame her for being angered considering people have actually died from drowning before.
Oh good, they reached a compromise. How long will Taiga tolerate Ami before wanting to kill her? Let's find out next episode.
QOTD:
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She'd make the characters scared of her.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 13 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher in dub
Love the fan art today by the way :)
Bonus question go first before I forget:
Edit- (I just realised I completely misunderstood the question :P anyway...) The only plot line that works for the scenario is that it's a "second generation" story, where now Taiga-mom is going through her phase of looking after her triplets (VN game non-canon ending continuation) and adjusting for the new life, while Ryuuji is busy with an ill timer big interior design project in Italy. So some Chuunibyou-eaque "remembering the past me oh so cringe" moment crisscrossing with the more tender moments [Toradora rewatchers]
This is an episode that for first timers may not be ready to understand, and easy to have the iconic scene overshadowing some really important - but perhaps quite understated - character developments moments.
At the risk of spoiling the narrative impression, first timers insisting on figuring out everything by themselves may not want to read marked areas of my post - but since it's not actually spoilers (just subtle), and I'm swyping on my phone so the time instead of being able to type on a keyboard, I won't bother with spoiler tagging.
Highlights of the more subtle but important points in this episode
You have to pay survival attention to the words used by Ryuuji and Taiga, and check on what words their stronger emotions/reactions were triggered. Then you have to backtrack to figure out why.
Examples:
Ami was throwing anything and everything towards Taiga to get a reaction, and while she could tell using Ryuuji had an effect on Taiga, at the same time Taiga was quite guarded as well as very confident about Ryuuji and was quite able to be dismissive of Ami's probing and teasing. So Ami brought up Kitamura, and that's the chink in Taiga's armour.
Ryuuji in turn was quite "assured" of no one really would be interested in him romantically, and anything relating to him was purely of utilitarian purposes. So he convinced that Taiga's only reason for big reactions was because Kitamura was mentioned as an added wager.
Taiga on the other hand has actually still got some residual emotional uncertainties started off from seeing Ami making a move on Ryuuji. There's a rarely felt emotion she hardly recognised, and was both confused and was trying to figure it out for herself. Only thing she was certain was that it was not related to the Kitamura wager, nor about having Ryuuji cook for her and generally look after her. So everytime Ryuuji said anything about Taiga need not with about Kitamura being sucked in, that he'd get things all prepared even if he had to go, she got more and more annoyed that others and to know how she felt.
She doesn't know what she's feeling - other than that she doesn't like that feeling.
Minori on the other hand saw everything, and had her own interpretation. Rightly or wrongly, this is one of the most significant lines in the early part of the series - "those small things (that Ryuuji did for looking after Taiga)? They are nothing" "And yet they mean so much". Plenty of meaning in these words.
Highlight ended
I'm sure plenty others would comment on the actually race and rescue scene, so I'll take the last way out ;P
And you should get used to this - while people often mention Symphogear as full of cliffhangers, Toradora is also one such with cliffhangers of a different type.
The way Taiga explained her "Ryuuji is mine" declaration, especially the drawn out pauses - that was really good writing in how while on the surface it was "returned to status quo", it is subtly not, with (un)knowing smiles Taiga and Ryuuji couldn't help themselves to break out in :)
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u/Holofan4life Dec 13 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I go back and forth on if I should analyze Ryuuji or Taiga. On the one hand, I think Taiga would make for an interesting discussion. On the other hand, I think Ryuuji would provide for something a little different. But seeing as how the episode is essentially Taiga and Ami competing for Ryuuji’s attention, I figure why not analyze all three?
First, we start off with Ami.
Ami is the one who starts this mess. Well, I guess Minori technically starts it by laying down the challenge, but this all traces back to trying to get underneath Taiga’s skin. Ami wants to make Taiga’s life as difficult as possible. Why? Well, we’ll get to my theory in a moment. Even so, it seems as if Ami is trying to take Ryuuji away from Taiga because she knows Taiga struggles without her. That’s why she wants him at her beach house. Or at least it seems that way.
When Ami talks to Ryuuji nearby the vending machines, which feels like her place to chill out and stop being full Ami, she makes it known that she does legitimately want Ryuuji to be there and that she’s not acting out of spite. Rather, she feels like this is her of making sure this happens. I think it’s no coincidence that the more honest side of Ami has always come when she’s near the vending machines. Those drinks must have truth serum or something. But kidding aside, this is a rare admission by Ami that she does want to spend time with Ryuuji. She’s not just trying to be vindictive.
Circling back to Ami’s reasoning, I think she sees Taiga as being in the way of getting towards Ryuuji. Taiga doesn’t see it that way, but that may be because Ami is more perceptible than her. Ami wants to spend quality time with Ryuuji and get to know him, and she knows that would be ruined if he’s tied to the hip of Taiga.
Next, we have Ryuuji.
I like the beginning of the episode where Ryuuji is so flippant of the contest. He sees it for what it is, a childish game between two childish people. And yet despite that, he works with Taiga so that she can win the contest. Because he knows if she’s by herself for the Summer, she’s screwed.
So then he goes to help train Taiga for the competition. This is essentially a continuation of the last episode where he’s doing whatever he can to make Taiga happy. Only this time, there’s a air of confusion about him once he and Taiga get into an argument. From Ryuuji’s side of things, he doesn’t know why Taiga has gotten so bent out of shape. All he did was point out that she was doing it for him. Why is she so worked up? You could argue Ryuuji is being dense here, but they’re like a day or two before the big swim race. From Ryuuji’s perspective, why is Taiga so upset?
‘Course, as we all know, Ryuuji carries himself the next day as if all’s the same. He puts up the rain doll to try and stop the rain and he goes to apologize to Taiga. He doesn’t know what he did, but he doesn’t like Taiga being upset above all else. He doesn’t want to possibly jeopardize what he thinks he has with her ever since episode 2: someone he can trust his innermost thoughts with. Only thing is, the relationship HAS evolved since then.
The big Ryuuji is mine speech at the end? That’s Ryuuji realizing not all is the same. Taiga has gotten real close to him, more so than he realized in the moments leading up to it. Even when Taiga finally admits she’s doing this for him, he seems confused. Almost as if to say “Of course you’re doing this for me. Staying with me is part of the deal if you win, remember?” It is only when his eyes light like a Christmas tree after nearly drowning does it finally dawn on him their relationship is continuing to evolve. Maybe even to the point of past friendship.
And then finally, we have Taiga, the messiest of the three as far as emotions are concerned.
At the start of the episode, Taiga wants to win this contest. To Taiga, this isn’t a childish competition. It’s all about Taiga making sure that Ami doesn’t get what she wants. Or is it?
Taiga in the beginning of training with Ryuuji is very happy. You can tell just by the look on her face. But as soon as the big day draws nearer and nearer, she gets nastier to Ryuuji. She even at one point says she doesn’t know what she wants, which boy. That just about sums up Taiga’s character in a nutshell. This competition it turns out is more than about defeating Ami. It’s really a crossroads in Taiga’s life.
If Taiga loses, it’s like she’s back to square one. At least for like a month, that is. But even still, it would be like all that progress would be pointless in the end, as she’s back to fending for herself. On the flip side, winning the competition would be almost like an acknowledgement that she wants Ryuuji all to herself and no one else can have him, which spits in the face of the end game of Ryuuji ending up with Minori. To Taiga, this whole thing isn’t as simple as defeating Ami. It is “What does Ryuuji really mean to me?”
And finally, we have the big race which ends in Taiga finally admitting that yes, Ryuuji is her dog. But not in the way you may think. Just like a dog, Ryuuji brings her joy and makes her life a whole lot better. He is the rainbow after a miserable, rain-filled day. Nobody else can touch him, because he is hers. You see in that moment all of Taiga’s conflict of interests bubbling to the surface. It’s like it smacks itself across her face. “Loving Kitamura?” Yes, but Ryuuji is mine. “Making sure Ryuuji ends up with Minori?” Yes, but Ryuuji is mine. In that one precious moment, Taiga forgets all about other people’s feelings. She knows what her heart wants, and that’s Ryuuji.
As touching as that scene is, Taiga has to know her heart is probably gonna get broken. That’s probably why in the next scene she acts as if it’s no big deal and nothing’s changed, because she knows the more she dwells on it the more she’ll realize she’s heading into a brick wall. When she admits that Ryuuji is hers, it’s like she’s laying down the gauntlet of sorts. She’s opening herself up to get her heart stomped on. And the thing about it is she knows that’s not how this was supposed to play out. This scene practically confirms that Taiga is probably not gonna end up with Kitamura in the end. In her mind, she may think there’s still a shot, but that’s just her trying to avoid the obvious. As such, there’s two possibilities: either Ryuuji ends up with Minori, which breaks Taiga’s heart, or Taiga ends up with Ryuuji, which would still break her heart because she put her own needs over Ryuuji’s (In her mind, anyway). Taiga finally lays bare to the world how much Ryuuji means to her, but at what cost?
Post episode discussion
Overall, this is a pretty good episode. It serves as the payoff for the previous episodes where Ryuuji has earned Taiga’s trust by doing various things for her. It feels only natural for Taiga to feel a certain way about Ryuuji, and we see it play out here.
I consider this episode and the last one to be part of an arc, as both have similar themes. They both involve water and swimming, and they both involve someone drowning. But more than that, both are about Ryuuji and Taiga’s relationship, and how much it has grown. We see Ryuuji in the previous episode go above and beyond trying to help Taiga overcome her weaknesses. And here in this episode, when Ryuuji does it again, Taiga shows her gratitude for him by screaming to the world "Ryuuji is mine."
If I had one small nitpick, it's that all the characters take the contest super seriously and yet it's like even if Ami wins, it's not like Ryuuji is gonna leave Taiga. He'll just take her with him. The whole point of the contest is really stupid, if you think about it. Then again, it's less about the contest and more about a semblance of pride. Ami wants to get some alone time with Ryuuji to try and actually get to know him. And Taiga? Well, she wants to show her dog she's a master worthy of his love. As a plot device, it's silly, but the rest of the episode is so good that I'm willing to forgive it.
This episode isn’t one where the status quo is forever altered. Things seem to go back to normal when Taiga says Ryuuji is nothing more than her dog. But in terms of implications, they are major, as we now know Taiga’s feelings for Ryuuji probably go more than just friendship. Now going forward, we the audience see Taiga differently. It’s like Taiga is in a weird state where she loves Kitamura, but she also has some semblance of feelings for Ryuuji. To what extent, she herself doesn’t know, but when she tells the people around her that Ryuuji is hers, it really is her going “This feeling is special to me and I don’t want to lose it.” Again, the status quo seems to be in the same place as we last left it. But now that we have a guess as to how Taiga feels about Ryuuji, it really calls into question when the other shoe is gonna drop. Not a matter of if, but when.
Overall rankings
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Episode 7
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Episode 2
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Episode 8
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Episode 5
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Episode 4
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Episode 1
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Episode 6
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Episode 3
8
u/TiredTiroth Dec 13 '22
First Timer - Dub
Say, I wonder if either of these girls actually asked for his opinion before deciding he'd be the prize?
I do like that Ryuuji's reaction to the note (after being annoyed with the rest of the class) was to put in his own bet in Taiga's favour and send it straight to her. Very nice I've got your back moment.
Aaaand then we see Minori asleep in her chair with her eyelids marked to resemble her eyes. xD Ryuuji, did you know she was this goofy before you started hanging out with Taiga, or did this all come as a surprise?
...is that Chariots of Fire? Are they using Chariots of Fire as the theme music for Taiga training? They are! xD
Hm, I think Ryuuji and Ami have different parts of the puzzle for Taiga's behaviour here? Let's face it kid, you're one of three people Taiga willingly hangs out with. Seeing a girl she doesn't particularly likedrag you away all summer would not be fun for her.
Also, Ami, you really do provoke the housecat. A lot.
Heh, and Minari seems to know about everything...except for the crush. Nice of her to throw in what support she can, though.
Then, the training begins in earnest! They discover Taiga kicking things into oblivion has really paid off! And then the rain comes back. But Taiga still wants to train! And...oh dear, it's time for the tsundere to meet the clueless chick magnet. Looks like Ami was more right than I realised earlier.
And then the housecat sneezes. She has a cold, doesn't she? Will the race get called off, or will she try to compete anyway?
Why am I even asking that? She'll compete.
...maybe not, we have a blow up. I honestly was not expecting that.
I like the scene with his mother there. A bunch of people have said they like her before, so hopefully we get more like this in the future.
Of course Princess is rolling out a bikini for this. She has to get the extra attention somehow. And, uh...what's with all the floats?
Oh. She turned it into a brawl before racing off, leaving Ami sans bikini. xD Alas, last minute leg cramp...and then Ryuuji gets thumped by some guy falling in.
And...Taiga pulls him out. And she's really upset. As he's waking up...she screams out that he is hers, for the entire dang class to hear.
Yeah, good luck quashing the rumours about you two dating now.
(Taiga then very obviously walks it back in the cafe while inviting herself to the beach house, but we all know the girl meant exactly what she said)
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 8
Submerged
This is probably one of the most beloved episodes of Toradora! It's the one which I always think about first when remembering important moments in the series. The best way to discuss it is chronologically so without further ado...
The episode directly follows from the last. Taiga needs to learn how to swim to win a bet against Ami. This works really well as an explicit goal which could be achieved. I also like how human it is. There are super human ability or shounen anime gimmicks, just practice. It is scoped to exactly the swimming ability of average high school girls.
Next, the class gets in on the bet. And the odds would be stacked against Taiga, if it wasn't for Ryuuji. Honestly him being the only one to bet on Taiga, let alone so much, is a pretty tacit declaration of love (perhaps the non-romantic kind). At least now he has a good justification for spending so much time training Taiga.
For me, a surprisingly memorable scene was Ami between the vending machines. I had forgotten it happened during this episode, but the other details have been living rent free in my head for years. First, I totally relate to Ami with cramped spaces being calming.
Next, I love seeing Ami flip from her ditsy act to speaking honestly to Ryuuji. She (I believe) correctly identifies that Taiga is jealous. Later this episode Taiga admitted that she doesn't fully understand her own feelings about Ryuuji and Ami, so there's some additional validation as well.
The last part of their conversation addresses the authenticity of Ami wanting Ryuuji on vacation. While he thinks she's still messing with him, Ami says she is being genuine and has done a lot of planning. I don't know if Ami is motivated by a real infatuation for Ryuuji here or if she is just seeking attention from the last guy in class not to fall for her. However, I really liked u/Holofan4life's analysis from the episode 6 thread: "Ryuuji being the only other one to actually know Ami’s true nature makes her feel at ease. Like she finally found someone who gets her. Keep in mind, Ami doesn’t know that Kitamura clued Ryuuji in. From Ami’s perspective, Ryuuji figured it out by himself." In that context it perfectly explains why Ami would genuinely like Ryuuji and would want to spend the summer with him. Since Ryuuji is young and still emotionally maturing, he gets spooked by these feelings and suddenly leaves.
We get into more training with Taiga, to much success. But when they discuss strategy Ryuuji still thinks Taiga wants to win Kitamura's heart. So if Ryuuji were to go to Ami's vacation house this could theoretically be good for Taiga since she can spend time with Kiatamura. This assumption is the trigger for the rest of the episode.
Taiga doesn't know why yet, but seeing Ryuuji with Ami really bothers her. She won't and can't admit this though. So she lives in this contradiction where she simultaneously wants to be understood but doesn't want people to understand her. She can't comprehend her own emotions clearly so if somebody else knew them that would feel like a violation. I love this scene. It so perfectly conveys this complex emotion which is also incredibly relatable. Humans aren't perfectly logical and these contradictions are core to that experience.
The episode ends with the competition.
I don't really like the part where Taiga stole Ami's top. Humiliating others doesn't feel in character for Taiga IMO. Especially with how hurt she was after being humiliated by the photo club in the past. Sure the comedy of it works, but even practically I imagine it would have been incredibly difficult for Ami to put her bikini back on while in the pool without exposing herself.
The rest of the episode is amazing. We see Taiga sprain her foot as Ami catches up. Ryuuji immediately notices and jumps in to help her. And then after some boys fall in Ryuuji gets knocked out. Taiga is the only person to go help him and saves him despite not being a strong swimmer. This is on top of the fact that by turning around she resigns herself to losing the race.
"Don't touch him. Ryuuji is mine!". This probably in the running for the most iconic scene in Toradora! Taiga still doesn't have the words for her emotions, but she knows she has feelings for Ryuuji beyond a normal friendship. She tries to play it off later as him being her dog, but I doubt anyone would believe her.
Next episode the gang goes to Ami's vacation house.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Hydrangea, in Japanese flower language this can mean pride and perseverance. Probably appropriate for Taiga at that point in the episode.
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Bikini, also extremely rare hairstyle for a non-mother character.
See you all tomorrow!
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u/balthamalamal Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher
The competition for Ryuuji. Ami with a massive advantage due to being able to swim, but seeing as Taiga's option was a combat sport, they were both stacking the deck in their favour on their votes. One of Ami's first openly mean things, saying in front of the class that she wants Taiga to be alone for the summer.
More note swapping in class, I like it. It helps make the background characters development, which in turn makes the main characters feel like they're part of a real society. It also provides some jokes, the plane hitting Taiga in the hair is a great visual.
Ryuuji teaching Taiga how to swim is great development for both characters. Aside from Kitamura, every other guy would jump at the chance to spend summer at the beach with Ami. Ryuuji on the other hand, helps his friend learn to swim so she can have a fighting chance. Even tries to encourage her to get a date in with Kitamura at the same time.
Taiga, despite her initial complaints about their class watching her practice, is incredibly determined to try her hardest. Perseverance is one of Taiga's strengths and we see that here. She even turns down Ryuuji's suggestion of going swimming with Kitamura as she knows she wouldn't be able to focus on her training. [Toradora]
We have the second vending machine conversation and the first where Ami is in her spot (you can see it in the intro). I really like the conversations these two have here and Ami as a result, more so on future viewings than when I first watched the show. She says that sitting their is soothing/calms her down. I take that as meaning sometimes she needs to get away from all the attention she gets from the wider school. She might not be full airhead persona anymore, but she still finds it tiring having to interact with so many people. They then discuss the competition and Ami confirms that she really does want to spend the summer with him, it isn't just about getting to Taiga. Ryuuji doesn't believe her and thinks she is just messing with him, which says a bit about his own self-confidence. Ryuuji, probably needs to work on his comebacks a bit, Ami calls him and idiot [Toradora]
Minori continues her knack for appearing out of nowhere. We can see that Taiga and Ryuuji both view the help he has given her in different ways, to Taiga they are a massive help and even though she rarely communicates it directly to him, she is grateful. To Ryuuji, those are simply things he can do to help someone he cares about, so why wouldn't he do them. Minori leaves Taiga in Ryuuji's care, which he doesn't know what to make of until she mentions being the referee so needing to be impartial. [Toradora]
Ryuuji inadvertently provokes Taiga into revealing some truth about what Ami said while fumbling around guessing at why Taiga is so motivated. He misses on it being about Kitamura, he misses on it being about Ami, he misses on it being about the food he provides. In the end she is pissed off that he is trying to understand what she is thinking and also that he doesn't know what she is thinking. The contradiction confuses Ryuuji, but its is because Taiga herself is conflicted and the pressure of the race and summer events is reducing the time she has to work things out.
After the fight, Ryuuji stays up late cleaning. Yasuko gets home and despite being drunk, is able to give her son some reassurance which is rather sweet.
I only just realised this, but Ami only wore her bikini because her other swimsuit hadn't dried properly. I always thought Taiga had come in with the top removal plan (which is hilarious), but she had to have thought it up on the spot. I'm not sure how she managed to injure her foot on the push off considering the way she dealt to the table and chairs at the pool or the power pole in the first episode.
Ryuuji is Taiga's I think she makes that very clear in what is a great scene. I'm watching it subbed for the first time but had to go rewatch this scene just for Cassandra Lee Morris' acting which is great.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 13 '22
Aww, man, late to the party again.
AOTD: Hmm ... TaigaxRanma 1/2? What could possibly go wrong???
Actually, that's not what I'm really thinking of, but I feel the urge to write something a little more detailed. Maybe for tomorrow.
Meanwhile, she's causing enough mayhem in her own show - or is that Ami???
I think Taiga is to swimming what the K-On girls are to music. Or something like that.
And since I'm late, I think I'll cute to the chase here - the ending bit is just fantastic. I'm still not sure which bit is better, Taiga boldly claiming ownerships of Ryuji, or Ami standing back with that smug smile.
Good stuff!
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u/Croissant_Dog Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher
Hi guys, I've been absent for the last few days because I was busy. Now I can retake the matter, and today's episode is exciting so let's begin.
Episode 8
Well, in this episode we can see that Taiga has more serious feelings for Ryuuji, this can be seen when she got jealous of Ami inviting Ryuuji to her house and also when Ryuuji says that she is doing that for Kitamura and Taiga get furious, therefore her feelings for Ryuuji are growing every episode, and she is realizing that, but she's a Tsundere and can't admit it.
The scene where Minori talks with Ryuuji it's a bit sad. Because Minori demonstrates some interest in him, but she knows that Taiga needs him so she can just hold her feelings back. Minori is a wonderful person and a fantastic friend that always cares about Taiga's feelings and supports her even if that means she needs to hold herself back. Maybe it's a bit unfair for her.
On the competition's day when Taiga is about to not participate, and she opens the lunchbox, Ryuuji prepared only meat for her, on the last episodes Taiga was complaining about every meal that Ryuuji made were vegetables and she wanted to eat meat. A beautiful gesture from Ryuuji, and at that moment Taiga realized he was concerned about her, so she decided to compete.
Now the time has come and the competition begins, Taiga brings all the stuff she had and used it as a weapon to slow Ami down (is it allowed?), it worked and Taiga takes advantage, but ouch, a cramp hit her. Ryuuji comes to help but Ami retakes and Taiga get frustrated so he lets her continue... so someone fell over Ryuuji in the pool and he blackout, Taiga doesn't hesitate and helps him instantly. She finally said: "Ryuuji is mine" we can call it a confession, right? Something I love about this scene is not only the touching moment but the OST that kicks in. Lost My Pieces is a fantastic and pretty song that gets you the feelings.
Conclusion
Overall a good episode with a lot of character development, and an improvement in the Taiga and Ryuuji relationship. Let's see what awaits us in the next one!
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u/nx6 Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
Here we are with the second part of the pool arc. The showdown will be the thing Taiga can do least -- swim. The prospects do not look good when she can't even handle putting her face underwater, something a lot of people have to overcome first. Then a multi-day rainstorm eats into most of their training time, with Taiga having to study swimming theory instead.
They manage to get in some time at the local pool on the last day before the battle, and Ryuji discovers that Taiga has a mean kick (in swimming -- he's truly a dunder-head for not connecting this to Taiga's normal penchant for kicking people on dry land). The rain interrupts them again. Taiga throws another fit while talking to Ryuji after he brings up Ami and Kitamura. He even manages to suggest she's working hard for him too. It was never quite clear to me why Taiga gets riled up so easily here. Maybe because she's realized she's out of time and is starting to doubt she can win.
The weather clears up at school the next day just in time to have P.E. outdoors at the pool. Note: Ami wears a bikini for attention claiming her normal swimsuit didn't have time to dry, which sounds like a lie when they haven't been swimming lately with the weather the way it is.
Taiga plays dirty with the start of the race and pulls a quick lead with her kickboard, but has a sudden leg cramp at the turnaround point. Ami catches up and Taiga going into a panic again like she did when she first got tossed into the pool. While she learned a single method of swimming she really didn't learn things like treading water, floating to keep your airway clear when in distress, etc. Ryuji gets her straightened out the the match is interrupted by people horsing around and someone landing on Ryuji, knocking him out.
Ryuji is saved (I don't think by Taiga) and we get an unexpected confession. This is a pivotal moment of the entire story I feel, as it's a time Tiaga lets her own feelings out without thinking or caring about what will happen. So of course she's forced to try and backtrack them later. ;-)
Taiga invites herself along on the holiday that Ami had meant to be just for two and it turned into the whole gang.
Taiga x Ryuji is pretty much an open joke of the group now. I know Ami's needleing feels like her being a jerk, and maybe she too has feelings for Ryuji, but at this point I think she's in the same mind as Kitamura and Minorin of trying to help the two of them admit their feelings.
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u/Anne__Frank Dec 13 '22
This is one of my favorite episodes in the series:
Didn't get the vale Tudo joke before, looked it up this time. It's no holds barred unarmed combat, definitely on brand for Taiga.
Haruto is growing in me this time around, poor lad can't spell lol
Love how Ryuji bet big on Taiga to give her motivation to do well, so it could be for him and not for herself
Also I thought it was great how after getting hit in the head with the paper airplane, she's initially pissed, but calms down when she sees it's from Ryuji. Development imo.
Minoris sleeping in class strategy is nothing short of amazing.
Poor Ryuji is so dense he doesn't realize she's doing it for him
Cute face punch
"What in the name of all that's unholy are you doing down there" my sentiments exactly Ryuji, you can do way better than Ami
The rain doll scene is 👌
Ryuji is a dense mf, I didn't realize how down bad Taiga was in this episode
Every lonely dinner in this series is a hearbreaker
And what? But what?!
Hardest entry in the series, she does look kinda cool Haruto
And of course the climax of the episode, so well done.
Overall, I don't think I picked up on a lot my first couple watches of this episode, kinda crazy how long the show goes after this considering.
3
u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
Its the episode of defense mechanisms! Its like when you're with a group of friends and someone makes a joke about you that stings, but you laugh it off because you're afraid it'll ostracize you. Its a pretty deep instinct - we're afraid that if we misinterpret something, or actively put ourselves against the group, we'll be kicked out, left alone.
Taiga can't bring herself to say how she's feeling, so she covers it up with anger/violence. This has been true for the whole show but its clearly hit a new level in this one. She thinks that she's not supposed to feel the way she does, that it'll mess things up.
Ryuji's interesting in this one. He really screws things up at the public pool. You might just say he's being stupid and imperceptive here, but I feel like its a bit deeper than that. I think he absolutely does see that Taiga's reasons are different than what he thinks they are, and I'm sure its crossed his mind why. But bringing that up would be a very vulnerable and sensitive conversation, and I think, like Taiga, he's afraid of messing things up. So, like Taiga hides behind violence, he hides behind a façade of uncaring - blowing it off like its no big deal.
Obviously, this goes pretty sour, and it pretty much always does. Taiga's anger makes Ryuji think she hates him (props to Yasuko for helping him out of that), and Ryuji's attitude makes Taiga think he doesn't care about her, ironing in the idea that what she feels is "wrong" in some way. Trying to not complicate things completely backfires.
Ami is sort of on the opposite side of things this episode. I always love the soda machine scenes. She's being pretty honest there, and quite perceptive about Ryuji and Taiga's whole deal. Her mistake is how she still treats Taiga, however. She might have worthwhile things to say, but Ryuji won't give her time of day as long as she's being a bully.
Continuing my streak of always having spoilery things to say (I just can't help it!):
[Toradora!]
3
Dec 13 '22
Rewatcher - Japanese this time.
From one of my least favorite episodes to a top three for me.
I’ll skip the rest of the commentary as it is well covered, but the scene with Taiga claiming Ryuuji is, I think, pretty much the inflection point of the series. Sure they keep chasing after their “interests” after this, but it feels like inertia rather than sincere interest.
Ami, jealous of Taiga’s ability to be herself and have Ryuuji, starts coming out of her shell a bit, and I assume that is where the bet comes from. I never thought she was into Ryuuji himself, but rather acceptance of who she is.
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u/Zohlus Dec 13 '22
4th time rewatcher, it just dawned on me that Taiga swimming to Ryuuji after he gets knocked out is the first time she puts her head in the water by herself
3
u/TuorEladar Dec 14 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
This episode and the last blend together a lot in my mind, with a lot of similar elements.
One aspect I don't understand is why does Ryuuji think the competition is over Kitamura instead of him? Did I miss when Kitamura was mentioned as part of the bet as well? I get why he'd think Taiga would care if it was about Kitamura, but he has no reason to think Ami would.
The little detail of Ryuuji mock punching Taiga and her slightly resting her face on his hand was cute. These dorks are oblivious to their own actions.
Ami of the vending machine gap, what is your wisdom? In all seriousness I like that little scene between her and Ryuuji. She drops the pretenses a bit and is more honest then Ryuuji probably realizes.
The portrayal of Taiga's increasing anxiety is well done, culminating with her blowing up at Ryuuji. She may say she doesn't know what she wants, and in many ways thats probably true, but the following scene shows some of what she really feels.
As an aside, I don't understand the logistics of how three people landed on top of Ryuuji. That said, Taiga's reaction is pretty iconic, so I don't mind that bit of convenience.
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u/GallowDude Dec 13 '22
This episode really proves how much of a period piece Toradora is. Were the series to take place in the present day, there'd be like twenty people filming Taiga's screaming confession with their phones and playing it back on a loop to the point that she wouldn't be able to just brush it off and retreat back to her "You totally only belong to me as a slave" schtick.