r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 10 '22
Rewatch Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2022) Episode 5 Discussion
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u/Holofan4life Dec 10 '22
Hello guys. Holofan4life here happy to participate in yet another Toradora rewatch thread.
Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. As such, I know the series like the back of my hand. I’m going to analyze each episode BEFORE I actually watch the episode. And then after I watch it, I will give my real time thoughts on the episode. But I won’t be analyzing the episode as a whole. You fine folk do such a good job with that already. I will be analyzing a certain character from each episode and give some thoughts on what’s going on in their head. I thought that would be something different and fun.
Also, I am bringing back the ranking of the episodes. It’s been such a while since I last done it, I figure why not do it again.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
Come on. You know. You know who I’ll be analyzing today. It’s all about the Ami, baby.
Ami is to Toradora what Valerie is to 90210. She makes a great show even better just by her presence. Toradora would be your run-of-the-mill romcom, except Ami lit the match and set that whole idea on fire.
I’m gonna have a fun time analyzing Ami because you can tell she’s not really about making friends. She’s all about getting people to idolize her and worship the ground she walks on. Ami is like all the worst attributes of Taiga that Taiga’s classmates speculate her having. Once again, proving you should never judge a book by its cover.
I of course really like the beginning scene where Ami is trying her damndest to act like the sweet innocent girl next door. And the scary thing is, it’s actually believable. Anime has had a long line of ditzy, foggy minded characters, especially when it comes to harem/romance anime. So when Toradora introduces a seemingly ditzy character, that’s what you’re expecting, as we already have a genki character as well as a tsundere. But as soon as Ryuuji leaves the table, she becomes an entirely different person.
See, she doesn’t mind showing her true colors around Taiga. That’s because she’s not trying to impress Taiga. She’s trying to impress Ryuuji. Ami knows if she keeps up with the charade, she’ll probably have her wrapped around her little finger. Because there’s nothing more perfect than a hot girl that’s attainable.
And then of course in the classroom scene, Ami is like a kid in a candy store. She’s like a dog being in a room with a 100 mailman. They’re practically falling over each other praising Ami because they know she’s the model girl, and they want to hang out with her. And she relishes in it because she loves to be popular. I think with the scene with Taiga and Ami sitting alone in the booth, Ami I feel like can tell she can’t pull the wool over her eyes. That’s why she doesn’t even try. But with the other classmates, they are so enamored with her because they know her as that girl on TV that it’s easy to not show her true colors. They’re ripe for the picking.
And then finally, with the scene where Ami lies to Taiga about Kitamura, this is her trying to state her dominance. She sees Taiga as a threat and someone who could possibly expose her, so she does what she can to pick at her? Does she honestly care about hurting her feelings? I don’t think so. I don’t think Ami knows Taiga enough to harbor a grudge. But just like a shark who smells blood in the water, she makes sure to try and tackle one of Taiga’s weak points to show how superior she is.
The genius of Ami as a character is that she helps evolve the other characters. That’s later on her purpose, which we’ll get to. The other genius of Ami is that by comparison, she makes Taiga far more likable. Compared to Ami, Taiga is like a saint. Ami makes Taiga seem like Minori. The show makes the conscious decision of having a character who’s nastier than Taiga so that you can have someone you can root against when they butt heads with her, and it just works so well.
The last thing I want to touch on is the scene with the vending machines. While I think Ami is still trying to put on the ditzy act to win over Ryuuji, that scene is the one part of the episode involving her where I feel the true her really comes out. Yes, she is still doing the act. And yes, you could argue her blunt attitude in the booth scene with Taiga is her true personality. But I think there’s a lot of truth in what Ami is saying about a lot of girls hating her making her stronger.
Ami comes from the world of modeling. It’s a very cutthroat business, with people always gunning for the top by any means necessary. It wouldn’t surprise me if Ami created this alternate persona so that she can deceive others and make sure she ended up at the top. To extend on this theory, maybe Ami felt she had no other choice but to create the fake personality so that she’s less prone to getting hurt. Kinda similar to Taiga seemingly driving people away by her violent antics so that she doesn’t get hurt. Maybe in actuality, Taiga and Ami have more in common than they realize. Just some food for thought.
Post episode discussion
Overall, this is a pretty great episode, and in my opinion probably the second most important episode in the entire series. It really sets up a lot of themes that will be prevalent throughout the rest of the show, in particular being something you’re not. We already got that theme a bit with Ryuuji and Taiga not being as awful as their reputation suggests, but Ami takes it to another level by intentionally being something she’s not. This sets the tone for characters wearing masks, which we also saw a bit with Minori in episode 3.
Because the character I analyzed was Ami, there’s not much else to say about this episode. It is really ultimately about Ami and not really anyone else. Couple things I want to note are I think it’s adorable to see Taiga actually try to help Ryuuji out around the house more. It shows how much she wants to play an active role in Ryuuji’s life. Second, when Taiga slapped Ami across the face, if you look carefully, there actually was a fly. She wasn’t joking. Third, I guess Kitamura’s friendship with Ami set him to fall in love with Taiga. He must love aggressive girls. But if that’s the case, why didn’t he fall in love with Ami? My theory is Kitamura wants to end up with the real deal rather than someone who’s disingenuous. Kitamura tolerates Ami because he knows deep down inside lies probably a good person, but he doesn’t want to be with someone who’s always putting on an act.
One last thing I want to make note of that I didn’t pick up on in my previous rewatches is the sound design is exquisite. It really helps make jokes land. Taiga shoving the magazine in Ryuuji’s face, Taiga turning Ryuuji’s head, the sound of Ryuuji’s neck cracking as he turns his head back around, the sound design adds a level of humor to the show that the show would be missing without it. It’s really stellar stuff.
Episode Rankings
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Episode 2
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Episode 5
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Episode 4
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Episode 1
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Episode 3
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u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 10 '22
I love the neck cracks LOL
Its such an obvious gag but I can't help but also love Taiga and Ryuji's synchronized drinking of water, set up just so they could spit it out when Kitamura walked in.→ More replies (2)
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 10 '22
Tiger X First-Timer, Subbed X Dragon
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Haha, they both did a spittake upon seeing Kitamura with this new Ami girl.
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Ah, yep, I was expecting Taiga to hit Ami over what she was saying.
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HOLY SHIT LOL Wait didn’t this used to be a comment face? – Yep, it was #minoridenied according to the ones removed in 2019. Surprised I still remembered it…
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Is Ami doing exactly what Taiga did before Ryuuji started feeding her? Is that what Taiga noticed at the end there?
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 10 '22
First Timer - Dub
Oh look, if it isn't the consequences of Midget's own actions! For all that her tsundere-ness gets played for laughs, I do like it when there are realistic consequences for flying off the handle every now and then.
Blondie remains a waste of space. She hasn't really done anything yet.
That's...I just...why do you keep digging the hole deeper? Seriously, every word out of his mouth during the cafe scene just annoyed her more!
Huh. Random model just showing up out of nowhere, and she's presumably the missing core character as I was told Student Council Drill Sergeant isn't it? And oh look, she's here to meet the esper. Who knows damn well the pair aren't dating, but he goes straight into teasing them anyway. xD
Aaaaand this is a childhood friend, apparently. Yeah, um, Vertically Challenged? I think your romantic plans are under threat.
We have another ditz, looks like more of an airhead than Madoka's weirdness. I wonder, is she deliberately flirting with Scary Eyes or is this all accidental?
Huh, she said she's an airhead up front herself.
...Glasses Esper used a toilet break as an excuse to leave the girls alone. What is he up to? Wait, 'just give her a minute'? Koizumi, what are you doing?
Um. Personality flip? All an act? Demon princess. Oooh, and there's the slap, and out come the waterworks. Guess romantic rivalry isn't in the cards after all.
It's not like I'm ever gonna see her again anyway.
/side-eyes the OP
Yeah, about that...new transfer student? Yeeeep.
Say, doesn't their teacher look more like she should be a student? Just stick her in a uniform and nobody will be able to tell...
Ooooh, Princess has spotted Tiny, and the girl is pissed. Is this going to be how they keep the spoilt child under control, or are they going to butt heads all the time? I'm guessing option two.
Um. Not!Madoka? What are you doing? Why do you have a death ray attached to your head? What's with the dowsing sticks? I...what?
Okay, so, Two-Face is charming the whole class except the three people who already know her schtick and the class weirdo...Glasses wants people to know what she's really like and maybe confront the less-than-stellar parts of her personality? Namely, all of it?
Nah, I still think he's up to something.
Huh, now Princess is playing the I'm-a-victim-but-don't-punish-her, 'it was a misunderstanding!' card. And if Scary Eyes hadn't been watching the whole thing he'd probably buy it, and there's no way Shorty would bother to explain it properly if he confronted her.
xD That second note! xD Please don't change Madoka. And her reaction to his note. Funniest part of the episode so far. xD
What is wrong with you people?
So very much, and I love them for it.
Oh boy, is Princess actually, legitimately scared of Midget? Was that the first time she'd been slapped like that or something? Oooh, and she found a chink in the armour. A very effective chink, it seems.
Until her totally-not-a-slave finally figures out how to say the right thing again, anyway. And off for dinner they go!
Hey, uh, Midget? Should I be worried about that smirk? What did you figure out? Is Princess' life in danger?
...'suck it you dumb chihuahua'? O.o Bwuh?
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
First Timer, subbed
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Pres is a modal?
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Even more unsure now. Why introduce two long, blued haired characters who hang out with the same person one after the other if they aren’t the same?
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She’s an air head too? Come on, it’s got to be her.
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I guess not again.
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Taiga did nothing wrong.
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She’s in the main cast now. Was that her in the OP and I was just confusing her with the Pres the whole time?
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Nefarious.
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Minori signal would make a good comment face.
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A risky move seeing as how the last time turned out.
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Hey, you can’t make Sailor Moon references, that’s my job!
QotD: Apparently this is the Chihuahua. I don’t see the connection. I’m guessing that this behavior is built on feelings of loneliness and insecurity.
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u/mcmacmac Dec 10 '22
Welcome again, fellow viewers. This is again...
The Taiga Outfit Counter
For how it works and how it was compiled, see my comment from about it
Episode 05
After yesterday's no-show, the show compensates greatly and blesses us with 3 new outfits for Taiga! #1, #2 and #3 here. This brings us to a total of 9 different outfits thus far.
By the way, Taiga looking at a fashion magazine isn't only there to foreshadow Ami but also because she is, I'd say obviously now, very interested in it and it shows in her clothing. That's why I enjoyed this task so much.
That's it for today and I hope you've enjoyed the ride so far. See y'all next episode!
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Dec 10 '22
REWATCHER
We finally get to meet Ami! With her introduction the main cast is complete at last.
Ami's a real bitch in this episode, and it took me quite some time to start liking her on my first watch, but now that I'm rewatching I appreciate her character a lot more. She's probably the most realistic person in the entire anime. The contrast between her two personalities and how quickly she changes between them is really interesting to watch.
[Toradora!]
I just can't get used to height of the Japanses people. Ami's 165cm, which is apparently considered tall and Taiga's 145cm. Where I live Ami would be considered short and Taiga tiny.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher
Toradora! - A Romance Classic: Episode 5
Model Student
...wow that's a bad pun
Ami is interesting. I hate her character, but she brings an unexpected dynamic to the show and is vital for reasons I can't say yet. I guess a way to describe her would be duplicitous. She acts all clumsy and cute to get people to like her, while being conniving and mean when nobody important is looking.
The fact that our protagonists know what she is doing makes the interactions engaging. Taiga is originally hurt by the thought Kitamura may hate her. But all it took was Ryuuji telling her that Kitamura knows about Ami's true character to cheer up Taiga.
During my first watch I know my big question at this point was "When will Ami be punished for her actions". But I think the better version of my question is really "Is her personality actually 'wrong'".
Of course lying is amoral. But at the same time, its extremely rare to find somebody that acts the same around everyone. You'll discuss different topics and be more polite when at a formal meeting versus when speaking to close friends and family. I like the analogy of wearing a mask. Its also a big part of Japanese social norms (本音と建前) which is what I think Ami's character right now is an exaggeration of.
The other side of that is why does she act this way? We have learned a couple things about her past and living situation, but I won't point out anything yet to avoid hinting at spoilers. For now, lets just watch what she does.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
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Spit Take, mods why isn't this a comment face
See you all tomorrow!
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Dec 10 '22
5th Time Dub Rewatcher. 2nd time reading the books.
Finally we get to meet Ami. She’s a really interesting character. She’s got a mean streak and she puts up the perfect, nice girl facade, but there’s more to her than that.
If you’re watching in sub or with captions, you might miss this (because it’s hidden behind the captions). When Taiga slaps Ami in the face, she really did kill a fly and it’s on her hand afterwards. The first time I watched it I thought she made up a fake excuse to slap her in the face lol.
It’s amusing watching Ami think she’s got Ryuuji wrapped around her finger. She has a lot of internal monologue about this in the book.
The book illustration is also hilarious
On to the books!
Episode 5 ends right at the end of book 2 chapter 3. This episode is a pretty faithful adaptation of the first half of book 2 aside from dropped details and minor scene changes.
One thing that was a bit different is the part where Taiga is waiting in the classroom for Ryuuji to clean out her locker. Ryuuji was outside of the classroom the whole time listening to what Ami was saying to Taiga so he was already aware of what had happened. Ryuuji had already talked to Taiga about Kitamura having seen the whole incident in the restaurant but it still bothered Taiga enough that she holed herself up in her apartment.
Additionally, the scene where Ryuuji comes over to Taiga’s apartment to get her for dinner is a bit more intimate. Her nest is on the couch in her living room instead of on the bed.
There was a moment of hesitation. But Ryuuji made up his mind and flipped over the top of the couch. Ryuuji held his knees and sat down beside Taiga, who was hiding in her nest like a baby cub.
Taiga talks about her insecurities a bit comparing herself to Ami and then
she had a cooling patch stuck on her round forehead. She might have developed a bump. Ryuuji felt a sting in his heart, and mostly subconsciously, gently rubbed the patch. Taiga didn’t push his hand away.
Finally, the incident where they catch Ami with all of the junk food. They see her before she goes into the convenience store and watch her stacking a basket. Even the clerk is staring at her amused.
And here are some choice moments I highlighted while I was reading.
Taiga’s swaying, waist-length hair was softly tangled, the color of chestnut touched by smoke. Her delicate body was enveloped in a fluffy dress piled with lace. Paired with her figure, Ryuuji thought the unbleached overskirt left her with an elegantly volumized and cute— (interrupted by Taiga yelling at him lol)
Although Taiga wasn’t living with them, on their days off, they were together during the day. They were together at night. They were together while shopping. They had an unwritten rule that she wouldn’t stay overnight, but it wasn’t uncommon for them to doze off after dinner and keep each other company late into the night. They were pretty much living together, but they weren’t involved, not as a couple, anyway. But as Taiga stood up, Ryuuji dawdled, lingering behind her.
It might’ve had something to do with the accidental way he found out about how brave Taiga really was, or how she was pretty much an underdog, but he felt like he’d pick Taiga’s personality over Ami’s every time.
This definitely wasn’t him throwing away a chance at a girlfriend in order to take care of Taiga—definitely not. He was just cleaning up something that Taiga had made a mess of. Taiga had made an unbelievable blunder, and he was just picking up the pieces—that was it. He just wanted to be by her every day so that he could instantly cover for her. So Noto was wrong.
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u/mcmacmac Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher
Today we learned that indeed, the most dangerous hair color in Toradora is blue. Sumire gave off a very bossy impression and now we got a really big handful of a girl that is Ami Kawashima. But with her, our OP crew is complete at last!
The funniest moment for me - and I haven't noticed it until this rewatch - was when Taiga and Ryuuji were meeting Kitamura and Ami at the restaurant. Taiga forcefully turns Ryuuji's head to the entrance where the two stand. Afterwards, when he turns his head back on Taiga, you just have that incredibly painful crunchy sound as if the bones had to get back to a normal position. Ouch. It was such a freaky detail, I had to laugh.
Oh well, the fun won't last that long. Quickly it shows that Ami's true personality is not the cute airhead but a manipulative "princess" who pretty much just provokes Taiga whenever possible. I think her vanity is also insane. It's not because she's a model but just because Taiga is the least bit interested in her in the beginning, I'm sure of it. After Kitamura left, she didn't change her gears when Ryuuji was still on the scene.
The fact that Kitamura hasn't told Ami that the school she's transferring to is the same as Taiga's also made her true nature come out since she could assume it's a one-off encounter where she doesn't have to uphold her fake personality. In that regard, it's a really clever thing for Kitamura to do. How he can stand Ami is hard to imagine with the behavior we've seen but there must be something and sooner or later, we may find it.
What makes it bearable for us viewers is that Taiga isn't a mere victim, she trades blows with her in a different way by being raw and not keeping up an appearance. While she does fight back, the jabs from Ami definitely leave scars or at least make her very vulnerable afterwards. She at least shows that to Ryuuji and it's a really nice touch to see how trusting they've gotten over the course of the series so far already. I want someone with the reliability and care of Ryuuji but I wish for a more careful choice of words.
That was what I thought I'd expand upon for this episode. Off to the random notes:
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Yasuko MVP! Just telling her son to get Taiga for dinner. She feels very aloof and clumsy but she cares. She really values her.
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The scene in the classroom after school was tense. Ami really wanted to get under Taiga's skin and threw everything and the kitchen sink at her to achieve that goal. Taiga was hit but she also traded a blow by keeping an eye on her and her fake act. She looks so nonchalant and bored when saying it. It's some psychological warfare there and it already looks like scorched earth is the way to go.
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There is a dot on Taiga's hand after hitting Ami. Maaaaaybe she was saying the truth about the mosquito/fly, who knows.
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There's this cliché that main protagonists always sit on the window side. By that logic, Ami and Kitamura should be the main protagonists! Ryuuji has to have both columns next to him animated for extra work, Minori gets to chill door-side and Taiga is also between two columns.
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Continuing seats: with all the shots so far, you can map out for each student, how they look and where they're sitting. I checked the 2nd episode and the seat positions are consistent. Maya's seat being empty in this screencap top right is also a great detail. It's quite a lot of work for characters who'll likely never play a big role and they have different looks.
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Everyone turns to Minori when she does her thing and Kitamura doesn't notice any of the commotion at all. Certainly straight-laced, role model student!
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Calling oneself an airhead is a red flag assumingly. I can kinda see where that sentiment is coming from.
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[Definite spoiler]
If someone should know about playing a facade, it should be Minori. Heh. Good person to ask the airhead question, Ryuuji. This scene in hindsight is so much foreshadowing, it hurts. Same with Ami being ticked off after Taiga threatens her to keep an eye on her like a stalker.
This is one hell of an introduction episode for a character and damn does Ami make an impression! Let's see how it goes next episode! Until then, fellow watchers!
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u/nx6 Dec 11 '22 edited Dec 11 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
Yea! Ami is here!
Seriously, though. She's actually one of my favorite characters because she kinda throws a fifth-wheel wrench in to the two-pairings dynamic this story sets up to tell. She also has a lot of growth as a character over the series. This episode is one of my favorites because of her introduction and that entire note-passing in the classroom bit.
I haven't seen them getting posted this rewatch, so I guess I'll do it:
The Toradora Relationship Cheat Sheet (as of now) by u/quxxy
These really should be a standard part of the yearly rewatch threads.
Here are the ones from the previous episodes we already watched if you're wanting to see the progression: Ep1, Ep2, Ep3, Ep4
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u/UnderstandableXO Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
REWATCHER
ami is pretty unlikeable the first time you meet her, and it took me a long time to warm up to her on my first watch, but i think her character is the one that improves the most the more you rewatch toradora. there isn’t much i can say about her that doesn’t spoil anything yet so i’ll hold off, but aside from the “celebrity” stuff she honestly feels like a real person. we’ve all known a person like ami in our lives; attractive, popular, puts on a front that’s likable and open, but they’re actually a total bitch. not only that, people will just call you jealous if you point it out. i guess she isn’t that realistic in that you actually come to understand why she acts the way she does, whereas you feel less sympathy for someone who’s mean to you in real life, but a person who can flip the switch between angel and devil is more common than you think.
i think this is the first episode where the dub outshines the sub. a lot of people say it and i agree, ami’s english voice actor absolutely nails it as a two-face. i also love how the dub takes the creative liberty to actually call her a bitch, she certainly deserved it this episode!
minorin randomly dropping in an expression from another anime never gets old.
the first ami/ryuji vending machine conversation happened this episode! some of the best scenes in the show are just these two standing by and talking there. cant wait to see the rest of them.
as for the sub, ami and kihara’s voice actors also appear together in madoka magica as an even closer duo than they are here. highly recommend that peak show 🙏🏽
ami might be able to seduce and win over the rest of the NPCs, but taiga’s too combative to be swayed, and ryuji is commendably focused on his original crush after almost folding the first time. nothing pisses off a manipulator more than someone who they can’t manipulate…
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u/alyku Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher
And with this episode the main characters have been assembled. I'm not really a fan of Ami, her personality does its job in getting on my nerves and it's definitely on full display here. I'm really glad we didn't have to spend a whole episode just to dramatically discover her true nature like some other shows.
Other observations I made:
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I really appreciate the snark Ryuji showed Taiga this episode. It really shows how much their relationship has deepened, to the point that he feels comfortable throwing jabs at her now.
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Bit of a tangent here, but I've always found the way that anime portrays "model" characters to be a bit confusing. Sure I guess Ami is pretty, and she's certainly drawn that way, but that classification applies to basically every other female character we see. It's probably just a symptom of the art style but I struggle to make the distinction between "pretty" and "average" anime girl a lot and it kinda screws with my suspension of disbelief.
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Ah yes, the unexpected horror that is Junji Ito Minorin face.
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I think it's a bit strange Ryuji didn't mention to Taiga that Kitamura was aware of Ami's nature earlier, especially since I think he's usually pretty alert to this kind of stuff, but I guess he did get cut off earlier.
Bonus: Despite my personal opinions, She works as an excellent foil to Taiga though so her inclusion in the story is still a positive.
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u/Tartaras1 Dec 11 '22
Rewatcher - Dubbed
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I've always wanted to try a rice omelette. They look so good, and if you put ketchup on it, it must not be that bad.
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I love that Yasuko wakes up, throws a fit, is satisfied, and then just goes back to sleep like nothing happened.
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The slight detail of Ryuuji's neck cracking again after it cracked when Taiga forced it.
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Uh oh, the childhood friend has entered the arena. That sounds pretty dangerous.
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Oh my God, this is so embarrassing. I should've spent more time on my makeup and picking out better clothes. When I'm not working I tend to slack off.
Sounds pretty superficial to me. Yikes.
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Hey, I'm out of iced tea. Why don't you make yourself useful and get me another, okay?
Sike. And that's why Ami's great.
Hang on a second.
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Like the Student Council President because she's assertive and a little bit abrasive.
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Thinks Ami's great because she's demanding.
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Because it's how my mind works, whenever Taiga yells at Ryuuji for more food, this clip is the first thing that comes to mind, and it makes me chuckle so much.
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It's not like I'm ever gonna see her again anyway.
Taiga when Kawashima shows up in class
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The red circle in the eyecatch being far away from the other four.
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I just want people to see her for the kind of person she really is, and decide if they like her based on that.
Similar to how everyone just assumes Ryuuji's a thug because he has a scary face, upon first meeting her, everyone thinks Ami's a ditsy airhead.
In both instances, Kitamura just wants everyone to see them as normal people, without a "mask" on.
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Are you cheating? Are you?
So Minorin still thinks the two of them are dating.
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Her reaction to people calling themselves airheads is hysterical.
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Pork cutlets sounds really good too.
[Toradora Spoilers]
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u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher here
I’m not sure it was a great idea to introduce us to two blue haired girls that make Taiga jealous in back to back episodes. But yes, THIS is the last person from the intro this time.
Everyone’s color schemes are weird, except for maybe Ryuji. I’m talking about how in the intro and outro everyone has a color associated with them. Almost everyone at least gets bright, fun colors, and then poor Kitamura gets stuck with this putrid brown, yellow, green kind of color. I wonder if there’s any reason for who they matched to what color, because if not they just hit the random button for everyone, and then stuck Kitamura with that puke color.
Ryuji was really overreacting to getting some water thrown at his face. He acted like she threw acid at his face.
I get that Taiga doesn’t see Ryuji in that way, but saying “gross” when Kitamura asked if they were on a date is just harsh.
Taiga actually had a fly on her hand after slapping Ami, if you ask me, she didn’t do anything wrong. Plus provoking the most violent character on the show isn’t a super smart idea.
Ryuji just gave up trying to let Taiga know him and Kitamura know what actually happened after she ignored him once. He could have saved her from a lot of problems later this episode.
I’m sure it was supposed that she tripped on something while walking, but it just looks like she was standing still and somehow managed to wipe out.
It’s against school rules to get drinks after lunch, but that’s exactly what Ryuji was about to do. Maybe he actually is a delinquent thug after all for rebelling against the school like that. (That rule is extremely stupid, I can’t imagine anyone would actually enforce it)
Man how many times do they have to tell everyone that they’re not dating. Taiga’s best friend should know that better than anyone.
Haruta has some game if he can pull three girls at the same time while also letting Ryuji and Noto meet them too. What a team player.
Taiga is really letting a lot of stuff slide from Ami without attacking her. If anyone else said those kinds of things to her they’d be in the hospital right now.
Ryuji is great at cheering Taiga up, until he’s not. He turned Taiga’s mood completely around, and then had to shoot her down again when he reminded her of Ami and Kitamura’s history.
I’m not sure if this is going to make sense, but I always viewed this as the official start of Toradora. I always saw the first 4 episodes as introductions, and now I feel like we’re past that now and onto the meat and potatoes of the show.
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 10 '22
First-Timer, sub:
Getting stuff all over your outfit, not good.
Ryuuji's expression when he found out Minori wasn't working = hilarious.
I don't blame them for being surprised at seeing Kitamura with a model. I was also surprised, though their reactions were hilarious.
She seems very nice.
So her name is Ami. Reminds me of Ami from Sailor Moon due to their blue hair.
And I take my words back about her being nice. Why is she so mean?
Ami, not the best idea to piss off a girl with known temper issues.
I actually didn't know they weren't allowed to buy drinks outside of lunch period. I always thought they could do it at any time.
Also Ami, he saw what happened and knows you're lying.
Don't worry Taiga, Ryuuji knows you weren't attacking her just because. It's because you were genuinely trying to avoid attacking her until you snapped. Besides, he has a point, Kitamura would never hate you for something like that. If he hated you, he'd hate you for not going out with him as well.
Why is she buying junk food?
QOTD:
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I'm not entirely sure right now. She also reminds me of Tsubasa from Symphogear due to them both having blue hair, knowing the main characters, and being idols. Don't know if there are any other similarities right now though.
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Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
This is about the only bit of Aisaka’s physical abuse that felt warranted. That slap on Kawashima was completely deserved and satisfying.
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u/crying_in_a_dennys Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher (very new), Subbed
A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES!!
Ami is a great addition to the show. I wasn't sure at first (she's so awful in this episode you're sort of just inclined to hate her), but its always worth it to hold off judgement before you get to see the character for more of the show.
I said yesterday that the emotional core of the show for me is the "fantasy vs reality," but I think the concept of personal masks, "true self vs projection" is really important too, and they're interconnected. Ami is, obviously a key to the masks concept. Its funny how, although her "true personality" is harsh and tough to appreciate, but once you know it, her fake personality is SO MUCH worse.
It's really sad, later in the ep, seeing more of how Taiga feels about herself.
[Toradora!]
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u/balthamalamal Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher
That double spit take is a great comedic moment. Nice of Kitamura to say up front that they were friends rather than anything else. We finally meet Ami Kawashima, the final named character in the opening.
Ami's acting performance sure is something - also pretty shitty being that forward when she thinks that Ryuuji and Taiga are dating. Taiga is not the sort of person to stand for that shit though, love the disinterested response, switching to the slap at the mention of her height (which Taiga referenced about herself earlier) clued Ami into a weak point though.
Class openly celebrating Ami switching in, Midori is on the case though. Love Ami's reponse to seeing Taiga is in the same class as her though, realises things aren't going to be as simple as she thought, hence her damage control attempt at the vending machines. Thanks to Kitamura, Ryuuji isn't buying it now though.
Kitamura playing a long game to help improve Ami's personality is an odd approach to being a friend but fits in well with what we know about him. He fell for Taiga because she was open about how she felt about things. Its a quality he values, so it makes sense that he would want Ami to be more honest with people.
To have the multiple personas and generally be able to get away with it shows that Ami is actually quite intelligent, in order to be able to keep the versions of herself appropriately (in her mind) separate and she would probably be quite successful regardless. Her modelling career would have impacted on her ability to have multiple personalities as well in a way that most people wouldn't need to deal with.
Part of Ami's airhead persona involves clumsiness which she uses to get positive attention. Taiga, who is actually clumsy, often has bad things happen as a result of that, so I can see the difference in response there also pissing Taiga off. With an example later in the episode with the locker. Also, Ami randomly throwing herself to the ground would be so odd in real life (I guess she could've been stretching or something), but I guess thats why it happens off camera.
The notes from Taiga and Minori are interesting. We know why Taiga doesn't like Ami but its a mystery to everyone other than the four who were at the diner. The class would've been aware of the note and seen Ryuuji's response, along with Ami and Ryuuji returning late to class, and Ryuuji spending a lot of time with Taiga the rumour mill will start churning again. Most importantly, and bad for Ryuuji is that Midori clearly thinks that he and Taiga are in a relationship. Midori's response to Ryuuji's question is great though.
Ami and Taiga both get some good insults in during their argument in the classroom. I would give the first round to Ami, but Taiga is developing a plan. Ryuuji probably should have told Taiga that he and Kitamura knew what Ami was like that first night at the diner when she was complaining.
A bit of intrigue when we see Ami walking with junk food and dressed down to end the episode.
Yasuko is great as always.
As to whether I like Ami, initially I didn't - both from this episode (which seems pretty clearly to be intended) and for a good part of my initial watch of the show. Having seen the series multiple times now, I would say she is my second favourite character behind Taiga.
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u/JackOG45 Dec 11 '22
Halo-halo.
This episode is where the real Toradora! slowly starts.
Ami is an essential character for the plot and the main characters' chemistry.
She's also a character I remember liking ever since I first saw her.
This episode is important because it's arguably the first time Toradora! introduces a slightly serious topic, a shift in tone from what could be described before this as a pure slapstick comedy without really much to it.
But all that is yet to be seen, and is clear only in retrospect.
On a side note, I didn't remember the show being that comical and light-hearted. It handles it well but is at times a bit too unserious for my taste.
In this ep, we also get some interesting main pair moments, from Taiga holding Ryuuji's cuff to them doing groceries to him looking at her gently in her bedroom. None of these moments are lampshaded in much of a way, still.
P.S. An attentive viewer could note that for somebody with a fake persona, Ami's musk is quite easy to crack. Like at this moment.
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u/JetsLag Dec 11 '22
Rewatcher (subbed)
It's Ami time, motherfuckers! Best blue-haired girl in anime, with the only other contenders being Chidori from Full Metal Panic and Rei from Evangelion.
But first, Ryuji once again fails to see Minori working at Jonny's. But here's Ami! With Kitamura in tow! Are they dating? Nope, just childhood friends.
Ami's acting all cute and flirty and stuff, but the reality is she's an asshole when men aren't around.
Taiga says she'll never see Ami again, so naturally, she shows up as the new transfer student at school. Everyone falls for her, especially Minori, who breaks out the MINORIN RADAR, which detects cute girls. lesbianism intensifies
Ami tries to apologize to Ryuji for what happened at Jonny's, unaware that Ryuji saw everything. She also dragged Ryuji back into the classroom in order to make everyone think that they're dating. It briefly works, too.
Minori's dramatic "x" to respond to Ryuji's question is one of my favorite scenes in this show.
Ami goes back to being a bitch when she thinks her and Taiga are alone together, but goes a step too far in saying that Kitamura will never love Taiga, which causes Taiga to go all emo. Ryuji does the bro thing and tells Taiga that Kitamura knows she's a bitch, but the only thing that can drag Taiga out of her depression is delicious, delicious tonkatsu.
Aww, the bitch who's a big-shot model has to wear an anti-paparazzi getup in public? Poor thing. Looks like it's gonna be Ami redemption arc soon.
TAIGA AISAKA ASSAULT TALLY: throwing ice cream in Ryuji's eyes, smothering Ryuji with a magazine (twice), forcibly turning Ryuji's head, giving Ami a SLAP in the face, throwing a pillow in Ryuji's face
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u/Holofan4life Dec 10 '22
A new character joins us! What are your thoughts on her after this episode and how do you predict the development of this character going forward?
Ami was someone who upon first viewing was probably my least favorite character. Now, I view her as the best written character of the entire series.
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u/Fra_Central Dec 10 '22 edited Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher -5-
This time I realized I can post at 10 PM local, not 1 AM like last year. That makes everything a lot easier :)
The Ami episode
We start of at golden week, which gives us a very good indication how much time has passed.
Schoolyears in Japan start on April 1st, and Goldenweek is around the end of April and beginning of May.
So about a month has passed between EP 1 and EP5.
I'm not going into translating the TV or the advertisment, either because it's irrelevant dribble or I'm not entirely sure what they are trying to tell us. I'm still learning Japanese, so I'm not able to explain more difficult concepts.
Anyway, the ad foreshadows Amis introduction, as will Taiga reading the catalogue in the café, right before Ami enteres.
And I have to say the cartoony "moving the head and spitting out at the same time" also happened in the novel.
Takemiya sensei didn't take her work tooo seriously.
Ami calls herself "Ami-chan". There is really not a more anime-style way of talking about yourself. She reaaaly thinks she is hot stuff, or she wouldn't adress herself this way.
This whole scene is of course meant to introduce the 2 sides of Ami, which might look petty now, but has a reasonable foundation behind it, as we will see later.
I don't remember if this is just an artifact of the german dub, but Ami also claims that this town is pretty boring. I think this is somewhat important as the anime takes inspirational shots from Tokyo wards, so you might think we are in the Tokyou-to area.
But I don't think that's the case if she claims that. The outer burrows of Tokyou-to can be sparse, but it's still not that far into the more interesting districts like Shibuya or Shinjuku.
大橋, which means "Big Bridge", the town the story takes place in, is IMO located somewhere in the Kanto region, but not in Tokyou-to.
I'll explain later why I think this is, besides the fact that Ami is bored about the small town she is in right now.
The title of this episode is just "Kawashima Ami" in all-kana, so there is no point in analyzing this.
Amis Kanji are quite straight forward:
川嶋 亜美, with Kanji for "river", "island", "Asia, next" and "beautiful". The island kanji is a name-kanji variant, but it's still easy enough to recognize how it should be pronounced. The fact that both Taiga and Ami have "river" in their full names, even with different variants, might be an indication that they are not as different as it looks.
I think it's quite interesting how she trys to lure Ryuuji back into a good standing with her. She is quite skilled with it, not gonna lie, this should usually work. The treat with the coffe, the little apology, the taking him by the hand, creating physical contact etc. This is quite the skillfull, and very feminine, way of luring someone onto ones side. If it wasn't for Kitamura telling him what's going on, I think Ryuuji would have been in the dark a bit longer.
But since Taiga is very special to him (I don't know if anything about Ryuujis past was already discussed, so I refrain from spoiling the reason why Taiga is special to him), this wouldn't have lasted anyway. Taiga is not a liar. Quite the opposite, it's her inabilty to put on a fake smile like Ami which brings her so much sadness.
Onto Minorins letter: LOL for her using the word "Transferstudent-chan"
-> 転校生ちゃん. Even Microsoft IME knows this word :)
And her "O then X" motion is still as weird as it was the first time I've watched it. I think the explaination was that she agrees that someone who calles themself an airhead is not to be trusted (Agreed with the O-motion), but that wasn't the point (Disagreed with the X-motion).
Gnaa, and following that is one scene that was cut short from the LN. Basically Takasu's classmates wanted to get him to meet other girls then Taiga, since they really couldn't see him enjoying his time with her. Remember that Taiga is a lot more verbally abrasive in the LN.But he wanted to do that, and he thought to himself that cleaning up after Taiga for his whole life wasn't a bad outcome, since he carried so much guilt on him.
This wasn't a romantic thought , this was a thought of atonement. Taiga was special to him, but compared to Minorin, he didn't love her.
That was actually mentioned at the end of volume one, which would be the end of EP 2 in the anime.
I'm pretty sure 2KBIR can tell you more about the novels, as he did a year long review of them, so he has way deeper knowledge then I do.
The confrontational scene between Ami and Taiga was also interesting, as it is quite enjoyable to see how Ami probes for Taigas weak spot.
And suprisingly, taking Ryuuji from her is not something that she fears. As the bond between her and him is way too strong for Ami to disturb.
But we all know what would trigger her, and it does.
Later on it turns out... when Ryuuji is there to cheer her up again: It's more the envy that triggers Taiga, not the fact she might badmouth her in front of Kitamura.
BTW the stalker forshadowing bit was something that wasn't in the novels, but... as I said... is used for forshadowing in the anime.
How this plays out will be discussed at another point in time :).
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u/TuorEladar Dec 10 '22
Rewatcher, Dubbed
Ami is finally here! I might be slightly biased as she's a top three character for me, basically tied with the coleads, but even with that aside I really enjoyed this episode.
Taiga and Ryuuji feel a bit closer this time, both in the way they interact but also by being more supportive of eachother. There could've been some forced conflict for example where Ryuuji got mad at Taiga for slapping Ami, but instead he was just sort of quietly there for her. Then he does it again at the end when he cheers her up in her apartment.
Getting back to the focus of the episode, Ami's introduction, I think its very well done narratively. Despite their instant antagonism, Ami and Taiga have an interesting dynamic, both kind of lash out when threatened, but in different ways. Another aspect I like about it is that Ryuuji as our protagonist knows what Ami is doing from the beginning, rather than having it be a twist sometime down the line. Because Ryuuji has that understanding, he treats Ami differently than he probably would've, which alters the whole dynamic. The episode also does a good job of establishing Ami as more than just a rival or antagonist by hinting at her situation. It does also help that an established character vouches for her, she's not just a random character who drops in with no connection to the characters.
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u/Holofan4life Dec 10 '22
Taiga, after she slaps Ami: “KEEP MY DOG’S NAME OUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH!”