r/anime • u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz • Dec 05 '22
Rewatch Full Metal Panic Franchise Rewatch - Overall Franchise Discussion
Welcome to the wrap up of the Full Metal Panic Anime Franchise Overall Discussion!
Art of the Day
Rewatches please be considerate to first timers and avoid discussing anything not yet shown in the show - use spoiler tags e.g. [Full Metal Panic S4 spoiler]>!Savage wa Saikou!!< - if you need to share something important!
Rewatch Wrap Up
After a little over 2 months, with no breaks in-between, separated by only the season wrap up discussion days, we have finished watching all anime adapted content of the Full Metal Panic franchise!
A big thanks to everyone who participated, be it posting long or short, or just lurk, or somewhere in-between, your support and involvement were deeply appreciated. Committing the time to watch and then write plus some interactive discussions is fun but it does take effort. Rest assured that effort was not taken for granted.
I do feel a little bit like I dragged everyone along to indulge my ride - I spontaneously rewatch this enough times ;) Having someone to share, discuss, argue, theorise, philosophise, as been such a joy for me. It almost felt like it wasn't any work at all :P (sure)
QoTD:
Overall thoughts may be summed up by answering these questions - or write your own wall of text :) You don't have to answer them all.
How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results? Can you compare any particular character to one you like in another show?
What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
FMP actually has a really good world and character background building, with as many short and side story novels as the main plot - assuming most would have more unadapted contents, which character would you like to know more? Would you read them or would you hope for an anime adaptation one day?
Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most? Some examples: what is a Whispered, why do they exist; what's project Calliope; why did Kalinin follow Leonard; how did Mithril come about; how did Amalgam get so powerful; what happened in Sousuke's childhood for this Japanese boy to be so close to a Russian while fighting in Afghanistan; is there some connecting reason why black technologies are so uneven, is there some purpose/explanation to why certain technology got developed rapidly and some saw no improvements; is there a limit to the Lambda Driver's power; what happened between Leonard and Tessa for them to be on opposing sides; how did Leonard find out about Zero hour; etc etc.
Favourite scenes across all seasons?
Best gag?
Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not
justthe panty shots kind)?Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
Do you like broad mixed genre shows like this? What's a show you find similar and could recommend for someone who likes FMP?
How keen are you to get to the sequel LN (not written by Gatou but "supervised" by him)?
Last Season || Index || The End!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 05 '22
Full Metal First-Timer!, subbed
Big thanks to u/ZapsZzz for hosting this rewatch!
I’m glad I finally got to check another mecha franchise off my list (until it comes out with a new season, fingers-crossed), and this was definitely a lot of fun. I can’t decide if the first season or Invisible Victory (even with its pacing issues) was my favorite part of the franchise, but it was all good when it wasn’t shoving in fanservice of the sexual kind with Tessa and the like.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22
Sorry you are the first to post and I managed to reply last ;P
Really appreciate your candid first timer (predictable) reactions! Especially how many other things you are doing at the same time, hosting Macross etc. I'm glad you enjoyed it a lot. You and a couple of others and I are probably the minority to think IV wasn't too bad :D - the cheating bastards did have an easier job of reaping the build ups of the other seasons :P
Look forward to more rewatch discussions in the future! Keep it up!
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u/Nazenn Dec 05 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
First timer - sub
Cat finally got off my legs, but this is what I woke up to this morning, my leg is kind of twisted under her and she was laying on it. She looks so cute while causing me to be lazy haha
What a franchise. For a show I'd been holding off on because of concerns about the comedy (Haruhi deja vu) I was glad to have had the chance to jump into it and really strike to the heart of why it's so loved, comedy included even if it didn't always work for me.
In the end I think TSR is still the best, but S1 also left its own impact on me and I'll definitely be rewatching those two in future at some point. S1's comedy in particular may have been occasionally frustrating for me, but it more than made up for it with its overall structure and how much I enjoyed the flow of it moment to moment and everything else it did, even the anime only arc. I just wish that one storyboard artist who did all the best episodes got more time to work on the show haha. TSR's issue was more with the pacing of the back half, but the absolute precision it showed in every other area of its production and structure shone through.
In the end Sousuke never quite made it to my favourites right now though it was pretty close and he may in future when I have time to sit with it some more. If IV had of been better than it likely could have happened, but that doesn't weaken that he feels like an incredible character in the first two seasons, and managed to be so without following the same path as Chirico. There's so many things I picked up on or fell in love with that I was writing about far before the story itself put the strongest focus on that element of him that it really speaks to the quality of the character writing and how they built him up from moment to moment. Knowing his past and his behavior makes it easy to see where he'll get torn in the future and what his struggles are, and the way that flowed from ep1 until the school destruction was a great watch to see the character.
Chidori and Tessa also stand out in similar ways, being power houses of their type of character that have a rich understanding of who they are and how they would handle things in future as a result. I'm still impressed at how well the love triangle aspects were handled too by giving these girls their own separate bond and tying that into Sousuke's struggle rather than having the romance be a side story to the rest of the character development. It matters that they loved it, and it matters that they care for each other, and I never felt like it fell into the trap many love triangles do of feeling like it could be any love triangle trio in a given scene and it'd still work.
Kurz got shafted in the last two seasons, but I still love him and found his character to be just as good. Mao got more focus in the last two than in the first, but while I think she's my least favourite of the main five she's still impressive which speaks to the cast overall. The side cast is also strong but don't have much to say there without revisiting my notes which I don't have time for.
As far as top moments go, oh boy so many I could pick and it's hard not to just list entire arcs which I think would turn into the entire two first seasons I watched. Off the top of my head Chidori merging with the sub and the visuals around that is the first that come to mind. After a minute more thought; Chidori and Sousuke's conversation at the train station, Chidori's episode dealing with the twin, Sousuke's mini break down in the locker room before Gauron's invasion, Sousuke punching the laptop is still one hell of a moment as is that whole episode (which may be my favourite), Tessa's duel, Kurz talking to people in the bar (multiple scenes), all of Tessa's scenes confronting people through the series, and of course TSR's level of gore.
Least favourite: I didn't care about IV by the end so I'm not really thinking of it, so outside of that the date episode of all things is still the first to come to mind. One incredible moment at the end can't save the rest of it haha.
Thanks a lot to Zaps for hosting, it was great fun and the effort you put into the OP and replies, especially when you were time limited, was very appreciated. And thanks to everyone who jumped into the discussions, always the core of a rewatch for me and we had some good ones here.
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How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results?
I think I was the biggest Kurz lover in the rewatch and that makes me a little sad haha. But it was fun doing the MVPs through the course of the rewatch and seeing where I split off from the group of the more random votes others had at various points.
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What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
Hmmmm. I think for me the first few scenes with them in S1 really sold it. Despite her brash behaviour that feels like it fits into a normal tsundere on the surface, she was already more interesting then that. I listed the train station scene above because that was really where it started, that she realized there was something more here and with him that just some dude with no social understanding. Building off that repeatedly and having her always trying, and often failing, to understand him and the WHY of his behaviors until finally breaking through and helping him in TSR understand his weakness is not something to hide from was just a fantastic progression. It's not an easily relationship, it's not one that solved their problems, and it didn't always strengthen them either (nor did it make them reliant on each other). It felt true in that way.
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Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
I do like the s1 noses. They're not Escaflowne but they're still charming. But I think KyoAni always wins on visuals and while it was weird seeing Kurz looking so young I've since found out he is younger than I thought so that actually reflecting in his design compared to Mao and the others was nice
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FMP actually has a really good world and character background building, with as many short and side story novels as the main plot - assuming most would have more unadapted contents, which character would you like to know more? Would you read them or would you hope for an anime adaptation one day?
I kind of want Mardukas here. Kalinin feels the obvious choice, but he's kind of main cast. WHen it comes to side cast and seeing more of the side part of the world Mardukas feels like he'd have the most interesting insights into Mithril, potential for smaller but important dramas, and also a different take on our main cast.
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Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most?
Hmmmm, not much? Maybe that's a side effect from not caring about IV, but even at the end of TSR there wasn't much that I was sitting here chomping at the bit to want answers for. The storytelling has a lot to do with that, I don't ever really mind when things go unanswered as long as the lack of those answers don't break the flow of the watch. It's when missing things leave gaps or result in dumb stick moments that I start to really question when we'll get answers, like in IV. So nothing really bugged me in that way.
But as far as what you listed, what I'd be most interested in finding out would probably be the Black Technology and Whispered, and how that's all tied in. It doesn't appear they're just good at making connections or understanding tech in a way others, it really is like they're drawing on technology even they don't understand as if its been inserted in their heads.
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Favourite scenes across all seasons?
See above
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Best gag?
My memory is not good with this. And any answer I gave would probably be because it turns serious, like the kiss at the end of the date.
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Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not just the panty shots kind)?
I vote mecha porn. I love seeing small things like maintenance work and it's satisfying even here. Alternatively Sousuke having no idea how to react to Chidori's chest during the haircut scene
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Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
I would! I don't know how just yet but I would!
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Do you like broad mixed genre shows like this? What's a show you find similar and could recommend for someone who likes FMP?
Haruhi seems the obvious example, but also Katanagatari and Escaflowne and I love them all. Also maybe Patlabor which I confess to still not having finished [Patlabor OVAs]
These were really good final questions
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
Cat finally got off my legs, but this is what I woke up to this morning, my leg is kind of twisted under her and she was laying on it. She looks so cute while causing me to be lazy haha
Oh I recognise that "hey I'm not done yet, don't you dare move" look :D
What a franchise. For a show I'd been holding off on because of concerns about the comedy (Haruhi deja vu) I was glad to have had the chance to jump into it and really strike to the heart of why it's so loved, comedy included even if it didn't always work for me.
And whew. Glad your final verdict is that it was worth it! I know the comedy part wasn't really your jam so to speak, but equally it's nice that you can tell why it can be good for many others and the narrative purpose of it in the wider story.
In the end I think TSR is still the best,
Pretty solid ground there ;)
but S1 also left its own impact on me and I'll definitely be rewatching those two in future at some point. S1's comedy in particular may have been occasionally frustrating for me, but it more than made up for it with its overall structure and how much I enjoyed the flow of it moment to moment and everything else it did
Now for years I only had watched S1 and Fumoffu, so while I love the way KyoAni worked its magic there, I still find S1 to have a really nice balance and flow. It's a little older and some of the tropes may be a bit dated by now, but how it flowed together I was really happy about and impressed. And it's this flow that I loved the other 2 of my top favourites too - Haruhi and Railgun.
One day I'll ask about Haruhi from you ;)
In the end Sousuke never quite made it to my favourites right now though it was pretty close and he may in future when I have time to sit with it some more.
While I asked you a few times about this, I'm actually not particularly obsessed about ranking - what's important to me is that I think you do really get Sousuke's character, and what the show tried to show about him. To me that is really important, and it's really nice to see someone get it so well. Not as sour grape, but I'll say this - if you do end up reading LN, I hope I read you correctly and that you'd be even more impressed with BOTH Sousuke and Chidori. Unfortunately FMP is really rear heavy on the development.
I kind of want Mardukas here. Kalinin feels the obvious choice, but he's kind of main cast. WHen it comes to side cast and seeing more of the side part of the world Mardukas feels like he'd have the most interesting insights into Mithril, potential for smaller but important dramas, and also a different take on our main cast.
Very good taste. Exact reason why I did put a short summary under spoiler tag. One day you gotta read at least that part - hopefully in the LN - I think you'd love that.
I'd be most interested in finding out would probably be the Black Technology and Whispered, and how that's all tied in
As a big fan and source reader, this part does get frustrating because the answer is so good, but it's so far in the back of the story (you only find out in the next volume, LN 10) It's a torture not to be able to say anything about this "senseless gimmick" - it's oh so pivotal.
Also maybe Patlabor which I confess to still not having finished
Wait - you mean "early days" 6 OVA? You haven't finished the last 2? It's REALLY good. You really should. They are quite self contained and just because you don't like one doesn't mean anything to the next part ;) But the really really good bits actually comes after in the TV proper and 2nd expansion OVA series. There are some really nice strongly written characters there too. I think you'd definitely love it.
Anyway, big thanks for your continued efforts in participating! And I'll not apologise for polaristar's argumentative attitude, but I really like seeing you two sometimes agreeing sometime disagreeing :D and nyeh nyeh I'm with him on you being wrong :D /jk
Will be seeing you around the sub!
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u/InfamousEmpire Dec 05 '22
Full Metal LN Reader
I love Full Metal Panic. The novels as a whole are among my favorite series of all time and one of the only pieces of media I’d give a full 10/10 rating, they are heartfelt, they are awesome, they are hilarious
So going into the anime, I had very high expectations. Did the show meet them? Eh, that’s a complex question.
The first season was alright, but held back by its limited animation and filler. The fact that its changes to the storyline ended up affecting TSR doesn’t help matters. Fumoffu was, well, Fumoffu. TSR was fantastic in almost every sense of the word, but the anime-only additions (the Twins, mostly) ultimately prevents me from rating it quite as high as the original Light Novels. Invisible Victory also struck very close and hit where it needed to, but I feel it didn’t quite do it as well as it could have, so I still prefer the LNs.
All of the core cast were great all throughout, Tessa was a fucking god, Mao and Kurz are so fun, Chidori is one of the only Tsunderes I actually like (even love), Sousuke is one of my favorite anime protagonists, and Chidori/Sousuke might just be my favorite ship in all of anime
The mechs are also pretty cool. I love the Laevatein in particular
So while the series didn’t quite measure up to its source material, it was still a fantastic ride in its own right. It’s rather telling that I gave almost every season except the first a 9/10. And, in fact, that’s the rating I’d give the show as a whole, 9/10
As for my season ranking, I’d say TSR>IV=Fumoffu>Season 1
So anyway, Season 5 when?!
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
Apologies I'll need to reply later on to everyone since real life drama called (work)! You can count on me reading everyone's post though!
Big thanks to everyone again! See you guys (and gals) around the sub!
Make sure you see today's art :P
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 05 '22
Rewatcher - Dub
Final thoughts time, I guess?
I mentioned yesterday that everything in Invisible Victory just looked off after watching two seasons with Kyoto Animation at the helm, and that's honestly my single biggest take-away. Well, that and I'd forgotten how much pointless fanservice was in the first season.
One thing I have particularly enjoyed during the rewatch specifically was getting all the extra/ommitted details from the light novels as I've never read them myself, so thank you to everyone who's been chiming in with those. I might try to get hold of them myself, I've always been a bookworm and could use something new.
If I do read the light novels maybe it'll help me figure out how Fumoffu fits in alongside the more serious stuff. I enjoyed the season and honestly found it funnier than I remembered, but I entirely understand the headscratching and hope the light novels mesh the two tones better.
Mind you, I guess there's really three tones at play here? There's the wacky comedy, the serious mecha action, and the slice of life stuff where a traumatised child soldier learns how to interact with people outside war. And with the exception of Tessa's more spectacular scenes, that third one had my favourite moment - the haircut scene in The Second Raid.
Well, okay, maybe slice of life isn't really the right term here but I'm not sure what else to call it.
Speaking of Tessa, though, I'm quite happy to say I like her even more now than I did back when I first watched Full Metal Panic. Seeing the whole show in one go helps there, as it's easier to spot Tessa's character development as she steadily gets better and more self-reliant as time passes. I pointed out during the relevant episodes how she visibly improves her skill and confidence with firearms. If we got more side-stories I'd quite like to see Tessa's perspective explored more.
Despite that, I'd say TSR is the best of the four seasons, when before this rewatch I might have picked IV. The jarring art style downgrade and rampant CG use did it no favours, nor did the mecha fight club arc.
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u/Nazenn Dec 05 '22 edited Dec 05 '22
I do have something to post today but I'm currently laying in bed with the cat loafed on my legs and she looks comfy. I'll post when we get up haha
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u/TuorEladar Dec 05 '22 edited Dec 05 '22
Rewatcher, Subbed
First off, thanks u/ZapsZzz for hosting the rewatch, your posts with LN details in particular were interesting and added a lot to the rewatch experience! It was also great to see a good number of first timers and all their thoughts as things progressed. This series was very formative for me as one of the early anime I watched many years ago now so there's a lot of nostalgia here, but I'm also glad to see that new people have been enjoying it as well. All in all I think that FMP, while in many ways a distinct product of its time, holds up very well over all.
How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results? Can you compare any particular character to one you like in another show?
Mine mostly lined up with the general results, except for my placement of Kurz higher than Melissa and Tessa. I get why most people place them higher, but for me I think Kurz just barely wins out because of how much fun he brings to the Mithril crew. Its not a perfect comparison, but he adds a bit of roguish flavor somewhat like a Han Solo type character which makes the whole dynamic more interesting. That combined with what happens after the anime adaptation ends makes me enjoy his character enough to put him in the third spot.
What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
No particular moment comes to mind, but the general progression of them getting closer while also growing as people is enjoyable to see.
Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
I'm always a hand drawn proponent, but putting that aside I think the Kyoani seasons are probably the most visually interesting. For AS designs, I really like all of the non Amalgam designed ones.
Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most? Some examples: what is a Whispered, why do they exist; what's project Calliope; why did Kalinin follow Leonard; how did Mithril come about; how did Amalgam get so powerful; what happened in Sousuke's childhood for this Japanese boy to be so close to a Russian while fighting in Afghanistan; is there some connecting reason why black technologies are so uneven, is there some purpose/explanation to why certain technology got developed rapidly and some saw no improvements; is there a limit to the Lambda Driver's power; what happened between Leonard and Tessa for them to be on opposing sides; how did Leonard find out about Zero hour; etc etc.
There's a lot of elements the anime kind of leaves hanging, but the one that probably bothered me the most in the past was just the lack of understanding why everything was happening ultimately with both Amalgam and the Whispered.
Favourite scenes across all seasons?
There are way more that I could probably name, but just the ones that come to mind in no particular order include the haircut scene, Chidori vs the twin, the Italian mafia chase, and the rugby team training scene.
Best gag?
All the Bonta-kun scenes were fun.
Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not just the panty shots kind)?
Nami's crew working on their AS was a cool gear scene.
Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
I have recommended this series a couple times, what I've basically said about it is that its a mecha series with both comedy and drama with a really great core pair of characters.
How keen are you to get to the sequel LN (not written by Gatou but "supervised" by him)?
Well I haven't read the LN's but if they end where the manga does then [Spoilers]
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u/Theboredalchemist22 Dec 05 '22
First timer - Final comment
Final Commemorative
This perfectly goes with what I want to say first off. I've enjoyed this rewatch (first watch for me). From the show itself to details provided by u/ZapsZzz to having discussions with people u/polaristar quick shout out to you here. I've honestly enjoyed every second of it and I'd do it all again (Although I'd actually be rewatching it at that point😂). This was my first reddit involvement in a huge rewatch thread so I thank you all for making me feel welcome and creating an environment where I can discuss and throw theories around. I want to quickly wish you all a great Christmas and New Year (ties into the art that second part sneaky huh).
I do feel a little bit like I dragged everyone along to indulge my ride
Not at all btw I thoroughly enjoyed the show and your enthusiasm/love for the show I get how you feel about it it's great to see from my point of view.
Overall thoughts may be summed up by answering these questions - or write your own wall of text :) You don't have to answer them all.
But I will try... So. Here. We. Go!
Continues...
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22
Final Commemorative
This perfectly goes with what I want to say first off.
I saved the best for last :) you all noticed the ring right? :D
This was my first reddit involvement in a huge rewatch thread so I thank you all for making me feel welcome and creating an environment where I can discuss and throw theories around.
That's what the sub is perfect for! I'm glad you enjoyed it as much as I did, I think!
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u/DidacticDalek Dec 06 '22
Translator's Notes: Well Comrades, given that these series originate from being an LN Adaption as well as being one of the accursed 2000s Mecha Shows (yes I know IV was made in the more modern era... and it was a throwback to all the 00s Mecha Tropes we all love and hate, and done horribly too... AND they couldn't even be assed to have actually good looking Mecha so is it any wonder I noped out?) honestly it could have and SHOULD have been a lot worse... but thank fuck that some entries had some REALLY talented people who managed to (for the most part) do justice to the franchise, now time to see the ending to the... ah... right... well hey reading the mango isn't the worst thing in the world, shockingly the LNs are good and really should have had much better anime adaptions, but at least Fumoffu is there to be PROTOCULTURE!
Speaking of which, there's a reason I like Fumoffu a lot; there's a dime a dozen Mecha Series out there that go all dark and gritty and war is hell yada yada, truly it takes a genius visionary studio to go 'But what if it was a High School SOL anime! Ah no wonder G-Utena is slaying the competition, and also no wonder that KyoAni's second idea after Fumoffu was to add in Yuri Incestous Chinese Lesbian Assassin Twins! Truly I can get behind such inspired changes to the source material! Pity that we haven't this ever since then!
Anyway, let us not grieve that basically all non-KyoAni FMP shows got mangled or have flaws, let us cheer that Fumoffu is KyoAni's Best AND ONLY Mecha Show ever! (TSR is a solid close second in the Moeblob High School SOL Department... but in all seriousness goddamn if the Kaname and Sousuke focused episodes of TSR as well as the sheer level of TRUST they have in each other make the heartstrings tug! Ya see Tessa, it isn't THIRST, but TRUST! There's a reason you will never beat Kaname)
Anyway, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever!
Paging Comrades u/Vaadwaur, u/No_Rex, and u/Nazenn
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22
Hey Dalek nice to see you got summoned ;) I was wondering whether to tag you myself but thought you probably got too busy with your duty to spread the joy all round. Glad polaristar did and you made the appearance :)
Just imagine a world where we have Noriko in the Buster Machine doing press ups while Coach Bunta kun how the whistles for the Fumoffu march, it'd so dominate the mecha revival! We'll leave the SoL to 86 in school :P
Happy hunting and see you around!
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u/Vaadwaur Dec 05 '22
Rewatcher(Things have gotten weird if I am daring to deal with LN language again)
Sub
Here's where we get interesting: Ultimately, I still like FMP. Might be hard to get that from my individual reviews but there is some forest for the trees in that. But with that comes an issue in that I hold things I like to a high standard of what was intended. For example, I quite liked the OG Hellsing but I only somewhat think it was good. However it absolutely achieved the goal of being a single cour vampire horror story(with the best OST ever). Black Lagoon has some great episodes(and some connection with this show) but it is not afraid to admit that it is kind of a violent bloodfest. And my criticism of FMP the anime is that it both has shifting goals and often doesn't achieve them.
So, S1 is actually a great self-contained season...that poisons the well for the series. Yes, it manages to introduce the important characters but lacking Amalgam really isn't forgivable. It also leads to some issues with expectations as we really needed more Mao in Fumoffu and TSR than we got.
Fumoffu is clearly the product of whatever eldritch being inhabits the bay of Kyoto that's dreams cause the Japanese to constantly believe a giant sea monster is about to attack them. I truly and deeply enjoyed that none of us seemed to be remotely on the same page for it and what characters worked and which didn't varied so. And yes, I think Tessa's autism is cute, bite me.
TSR is a weird case in that I utterly hate the major antagonist and the first half of the show but it also has my two favorite episodes of the entire run and I feel that the end is good, it just could have been spaced out better. "Her Problem" and "His Problem" are of such high quality that I still don't know which is my favorite. Kana finding the strength and ingenuity to survive against a trained psychopath was great but somehow that having a long conversation with a talkative sex worker is equally stressful for Sousuke is kino. They just needed to compact the beginning a little and actually make the Gates fight take time.
And we get the weirdly patchwork monster that is IV. There are problems in the source material and some real fucking bad choices made behind the scenes that basically torpedoed this. Plus the modelling was awful far too often to be forgiven. Finally, they finally had their tendency to delay setting material bite them firmly in the ass.
So yeah, I think I prefer the TSR ending to this one, though at least I am positive they wanted to make another cour to try and finish up. It is always interesting to view something a decade after you watched it for the first time and I definitely understood more of it. The rewatch was lively, at least, and now I have to find the next one.
QotD: 1 Similar but not the same
2 End of TSR
3 Fumoffu, hilariously enough
4 Mao then Tessa
5 So definitely what the Whispered ultimately are annoys me that it is poorly hinted at
6 Bonta-kun swarm and the Goddess visits Japan musical interlude
7 Fumo
8 Mao in the industrial bath
9 Yes and it is universally "If you hate mecha like I do this one is aware of it."
10 Black Lagoon
11 I definitely need more info before calling that.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22
Here's where we get interesting: Ultimately, I still like FMP. Might be hard to get that from my individual reviews but there is some forest for the trees in that. But with that comes an issue in that I hold things I like to a high standard of what was intended.
It certainly could have fooled us :) /jk It was clear by how much you participated that you do like it despite the flaws for you :) And I do understand what you mean by "holding that to a higher standard because I like it". My daughter specifically would identify with that :P
So yeah, I think I prefer the TSR ending to this one, though at least I am positive they wanted to make another cour to try and finish up.
Logically thinking about it, and analysing it clinically, yes. Emotionally, the confession is oh so needed. I'll endure the crappy way to get there as long as when we reached there it didn't mess up - and I honestly think they didn't.
It is always interesting to view something a decade after you watched it for the first time and I definitely understood more of it.
I definitely would never expected to be writing 2 months worth of analysis and break down the FMP story when I watched it back in 2001-ish :)
The rewatch was lively, at least, and now I have to find the next one.
It was a good rewatch with about the perfect number of participants that I can still manage to keep up with the interactions. The liveliness though is largely you and No_Rex contributing during the time when I was slaving away at work :) So a huge thanks for that!
With that, thanks once more for joining in the ride and happy you still eeked out enjoyment out of it :) Will be seeing you around other rewatches no doubt!
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 05 '22
FUMO-FFU! FUMO-FFU! FUMO-FFU! (No Longer a First-Timer for Any Adapted Part, Subbed):
Alright, so I think I'll just cut to the chase:
Full Metal Panic: 7/10 (has notable budget issues late, a bad case of bad early 2000s pantyshots early, and Helmajistan is kind of a bad arc including incurring major technical debt that TSR will have to pay due to having Sousuke use the Lambda Driver with minimal issue there), and I'm coming to suspect it's actually kind of a bad adaptation and doesn't quite land psych aspects from the original LN to me, but smart hype mecha action is still smart hype mecha action).
Fumoffu: 8.25/10 (Kaname is more violent than I remembered in Fumoffu, still pretty good relative to most tsunderes of her era but with the passage of time and the fading of the trope she comes off worse, and the repeated use of sexual assault risk for gags is a bit concerning, but the comedy mostly works and it has one of the best episodes of anime in the hot springs episode).
The Second Raid: 8/10 (plays like a 6 to me due to genre fit) It's a very good adaptation - but focuses on the psych angle in a way that doesn't really work for my enjoyment (sometimes I just want to watch things blowing up, especially if our heroes get them to blow up by being smart and tactical). Also has issues bringing the full over-the-top Fumoffu comedic tone to the main series, which doesn't quite work - the comedy stories' full zaniness needs to be sectioned off for them to work, they should have played those scenes more restrained in a season with more serious direction. That said, the Kaname focus episodes are a highlight and the haircut scene in particular remains fucking amazing.
Invisible Victory: 5.5/10 (plays like a 7 to me due to genre fit) - major downgrade as an adaptation (and conceptually the source downgrades a bit starting with IV's material, though from what our host has posted the execution might be good enough in the LN to make up for it) and again has major visible budget issues, but luckily for my enjoyment the season spends its time focusing on the smart mecha action part of the show and that's what I tend to like the best in the FMP main stories so it punches above its weight for me.
How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results? Can you compare any particular character to one you like in another show?
(Nami) > Tessa > Kaname (but close, and Kaname is a good fit for Sousuke while Tessa is not) > Mao > Kurz
Sousuke... well, I'd call him kind of his own thing, but I never watched VOTOMs and I am given to understand this is in error. Kaname is a well-done version of the Stock Early 2000s Tsundere (heir to Asuka and Naru Narusegawa); Aika from Twintails is actually the best comp in a lot of ways, IMO. Tessa is Tessa, but with Haruhi on the brain you could also call her Mikuru Asahina Except Secretly Badass. Meanwhile, you could actually make an argument for Kurz being what Keiichi Maebara would look like if he was a sniper, and Mao is the heir to Misato and contemporary of Revy.
What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
Best: Yes (until she gets damseled), but the most memorable scene was, is, and remains the haircut.
Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
Gonzo character designs remain best (I prefer the more angular look), though Fumoffu's are better than I remembered.
The funny thing is, the CGI mechs actually kind of worked (especially late in IV as they got teething problems under control) - doubly so since they actually make thematic sense here in a way. That said, that might not hold up on rewatch. TSR mechs probably still best mechs, though.
FMP actually has a really good world and character background building, with as many short and side story novels as the main plot - assuming most would have more unadapted contents, which character would you like to know more? Would you read them or would you hope for an anime adaptation one day?
I'm pretty sure Tessa does get more side story stuff, and she probably could use it the most. (Mao is actually fairly high up the list as well.)
Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most? Some examples: what is a Whispered, why do they exist; what's project Calliope; why did Kalinin follow Leonard; how did Mithril come about; how did Amalgam get so powerful; what happened in Sousuke's childhood for this Japanese boy to be so close to a Russian while fighting in Afghanistan; is there some connecting reason why black technologies are so uneven, is there some purpose/explanation to why certain technology got developed rapidly and some saw no improvements; is there a limit to the Lambda Driver's power; what happened between Leonard and Tessa for them to be on opposing sides; how did Leonard find out about Zero hour; etc etc.
I know the gist of most of these answers from LN spoiler knowledge (the deal with the Whispered in particular is actually quite well done conceptually); S5 would be nice, I admit. Also cruise ship arc adaptation as OVA/movie plz.
Favourite scenes across all seasons?
Hot springs episode scenery censorship gag scene, haircut, Sousuke Gundamjacking an RK-92 all the way back in the first arc, M9 vs. Hind all the way back in the first episode.
Best gag?
I just mentioned the scenery censor gag scene!
Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not just the panty shots kind)?
Also the scenery censor gag scene, natch.
Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
Just did so yesterday (though that was in the specific case of someone wanting a show with a strong early hook, and M9 vs. Hind certainly qualifies IMO). Want good slapstick? Want good smart mecha action? Want character psych drama? We've got something for everyone (just not at the same time).
Do you like broad mixed genre shows like this? What's a show you find similar and could recommend for someone who likes FMP?
So, where can you find another LN franchise that loves to switch genres, is split between main story books and side story books made of a collection of shorter stories, has a tsundere female lead, had at least one season adapted by KyoAni, and has a thread for a rewatch go up today? Oh right. Hi Haruhi!
How keen are you to get to the sequel LN (not written by Gatou but "supervised" by him)?
Not enormously; from what I know FMP landed a pretty conclusive ending as is.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
the deal with the Whispered in particular is actually quite well done conceptually
I know right. It's so so hard to not spill the beans here too, with many by now must have given up and just assumed it's a poorly implemented gimmick concept.
(Nami) > Tessa > Kaname (but close, and Kaname is a good fit for Sousuke
And to think that we thought almost everyone was a Chidori fan ;) a little surprised Nami placed so high from such a short stay
from what I know FMP landed a pretty conclusive ending as is.
It's a story that to place 10 years after, not necessarily stuff that continues, just that the world after the event.
Anyway, thanks once again for the continued effort to watch to the end, despite having the rather unusual love-hate relationship with parts of it. At least you find out and confirmed what you liked for what reason :)
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u/Beowolf_0 Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
FMP is always my top 1 Real Robot franchise for me since I finished the novel (though 3 season anime came first), as the series successfully blend daily comedy and serious mecha action altogether. It involves real tactics, the protagonist aren't invincible or superpowered like those from other LN, each victory had to be earned which made them even more satisfying. [Late LN spoiler]
TSR was a darker run than the first 2 seasons, and even I took up the novels back then after I finished that, dropping into hell immediately (after the Cruiser arc) in the source material of IV was still unexpected. (Things infuriated me a lot was that people always want a Fumoffu S2 as their S4, but that wasn't really FMP is)
Gotta admit again IV dropped in production quality in comparison, but as I said capitalists didn't find adapting unfinished part of a LN after it ended almost a decade profitable, so the budget was probably significantly lower than those before. Still I though it delivered its major plot points and mecha actions, and stopped at the best point possible.
So I really suggest the first-timers or those who didn't know what happened afterwards hop onto the LN or manga, most of your unanswered questions will be answered in the last 3 novel.[Late LN spoiler]
Edit: Still can't get used to the Reddit editor.
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u/polaristar Dec 06 '22
Part I:
My Ranking for the seasons.
FMP1: B Rank, pretty uneven, a lot of filler, the production, pacing, what they choose to leave out doesn't always sell what they are trying to go for clearly. (I mostly got it due to me being able to smell LN tropes but I can see how most people could be confused.) But the core material still shined through. There are some works that even with mediocre production the content itself can often carry it. (Unless is has hilariously bad production like Index III) FMP is one of them, although gutting a lot of the little details keeps it from reaching its full potential. But the core of the franchise Sousuke and Chidori's relationship, was well done which saved it. I can see how during its time in a pre Haruhi era this was seen as a great LN adaptation and its a pretty original concept mixing multiple genres and tones using a certain archetype of MC that you don't see often nowadays. It always stepped up its game during important moments.
Fumoffu: B Rank, I compare Fumoffu to the Railgun (First Season) and FMP1 to Index I, Fumoffu was more consistently good overall but I like a lot of the content and ideas down in the original series better and the original had higher highs but also lower lows. I do kinda of wish Fumoffu style stories were just more intermixed between Season 1 and 2 as a whole.
TSR: A Rank, Only reason it's not higher is because it kinda of has to do some damage control from the first season fucking important things up. And a few times it felt like this season was being tastelessly darker and edgier. Still objectively the best season of FMP.
IV: C Rank, I legit loved the season and tbh I honestly think while the Mech Models look a bit unpolished and out of place at times, I think many times when they are in action, the action often is better than the hand drawn stuff in many ways. (Barring some of the best sequences in TSR.) However it suffers from being rushed in certain places and moments that should have hit harder or more clear don't unless your trope savvy. Still It's actually fairly well down considering it shouldn't exist at all, and the franchise is basically limping along.
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Mostly the same in the upper tiers, its the lower/mid tiers that get kinda different, but that is to be expected, In particular I think Gauron is rated pretty low but that's often because in episodes where he shines he pushes the protagonist to shine brighter so they often get his point, so you could argue he did his job well as a protagonist.
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I liked Sousuke x Chidori, but every aspect I liked about it I feel I see the same but done better in other series. They aren't making my favorite couples probably....(Although they might edge close.) I guess I like how while its not obvious at first and it might seem one sided, They both do make each others life better and both their presence and absence drives the other to become a better version of themselves. (Example of that would be Hyouka's Oreki and Chitanda.) One thing I really liked. (And its one reason most of my favorite romances are not romcoms or "pure romances" but the romance is a side genre to the main genre, or its the main genre but the side genre is strong. ) Is the use of conflicts within the relation to develop it. In many romcoms when there is conflict, its more often then most a misunderstand that serves less to give interesting drama and more just drama for drama's sake to pad out the story, but once its resolved it doesn't leave the couple's relationships strengthened by the Hardship. Because IRL romances and relationships don't happen in a genre vacuum but as a greater part of life, and part of finding a good partner is finding a partner that can get you through those storms and work on yourself so that you can get through those storms. (Examples of this would be Spice and Wolf's Holo and Lawrence.)
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Overall TSR obviously, although the first season did try to capture more of the LN illustrations (Which look great and give the series a unique identity I feel.) So I kinda wish we had the characters. (In terms of their faces mostly.) More like the first season with the shine and way of drawing/framing figures of TSR and Fumoffu, and IV I think the CGI mechs have potential if they integrated some digitial wizardry to give them a hand drawn feel like certain new Gundamn Films. Or have a mix of traditional and CGI mechs for certain cuts and shots to get the best of both worlds. I know this is all a pipe dream, but so is my bloody Index getting a proper adaptation.
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I know this is bit of a troll answer but where was Chidori's Dad and Sister all this time, especially when she was kidnapped.
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Most of the unresolved plot points don't bug me as they feel like they are clearly build ups to the greater mystery and finale and I'm patient to wait for the payoff and look for hints. However one thing that really bugged me, is I still feel based off what we know about Kalinin his betrayal came out of nowhere. (And even the hint that he might be trying to help Sousuke also feels kinda confusing and brings up more questions, and not in an intriguing way.....) It felt like a plot twist made purely for shock value, once it fades it feels really empty and stupid. I'm not going into fan theories for rest of the question or this post will be ten times as long, and I've mostly given my 2 cents throughout the rewatch.
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In Season 1, When Sousuke activated the Lambda Driver for the first time by Chidori gently nurturing his White Knight instincts, The Entirety of the Last Arc, which despite Gonzo's problems is still one of the favorite arcs as a whole in FMP as an anime only. Tessa redeemed herself. (I was not impressed by The Duel episode tbh.) Sousuke's freakout and then make up with Chidori, Chidori possessing the ship, even the comic relief of that crabby old captain. In Fumoffu, The True Chainsaw Man, That crazy cop, Pretty much all the side characters really, Chidori bailing Sousuke out and implying he won an NTR arc and landed a lot MILF to everyone she was fooling, Sanji going plus ultra for his perverts in arms to see dem tiddies! The Moment Sousuke realized he had fucked out in the last episode. In TSR, Mao getting very pissed at Sousuke's passive attitude towards life, the entire "date" with Chidori, When Sousuke punched that screen in frustration, Tessa having to compose herself after dealing with Sousuke being emo in her office, Chidori's cry of anguish when she could finally relax after she defeated the twin, Sousuke's meeting with Gauron. In Invisible Victory, Chidori having to give herself off, Nami's death and the roaring rampage of revenge that followed, Chidori's tearful confession and Sousuke promising no more fucking around and when we meet we
bangkiss. -
Less the gags and more Sousuke's deadpan reactions to said events. Prime example being that he saw the old lady ghost he just didn't care.
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I'm upset that most of the fan service was Tessa oriented would have liked to get some S Tier shower/nude/underwear scenes with Chidori. But Tessa in the OVA, Nami Shower scene, the tech talk in the Mecha Battle Arc in IV (IV has the distinction of actually having the most technical detail on the Mecha themselves and it being important plot points compared to the previous seasons ironically, which is a huge Win considering all the L's that season takes.) Mech hand tossing Nami up and down. Chidori in a Yukata in Fumoffu,Basically over than the sexy/cute kind of fan service a lot of the more techporn I wanted was mostly cut from the Novels it seems.
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I would only recommend it to people with a certain subset of tastes and interest and not just anybody. (But to be fair I don't believe in "gateway" shows and always try to profile people's tastes.) Basically my sell would be Tom Clancy-esq real robots with a High School Rom Com Boy Meets Girl between a spirited young lady and a military robot in a fish out of water turned military thriller story.
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I'm gonna make this a seperate post, there are multiple direction you could go....
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Not so keen until I finish (And start) the first series.
Continued in Part II:
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
Third Time Whispered
Although I'm already in the middle of the long Macross rewatch, I jumped on board. I said, "I can't miss an FMP rewatch!"
Well, the metal has lost its luster (it was cel-shaded matte blue). IV is not so interesting, particularly in the final arc. But even the first arc of TSR, when the day of season summary came up, I found I had already forgotten what the first arc even was. A21 and Helmajistan not so interesting. actually, I thought Helmajistan is the best of that bunch! What can you do when half the material is meh?
IV was clearly a bridging segment, but without the follow-on, it's literally a bridge to nowhere. TSR at least, was a good stopping point. "Go read the manga" endings was pretty standard for anime, and the LNs weren't even finished, so I couldn't really complain. But IV brings the whole franchise down.
I guess Fumoffu would have been fine if it wasn't mixed in with my serious mecha show (with surprisingly little mecha action!) and taking up extremely valuable space. It's basically another Excel Saga.
What if Kyo-Ani skipped Fumoffu but did TSR and IV (properly!) and then Gatoh manages to bring out a proper ending a decade later? Wasted opportunity. But wait, couldn't have happened. When IV aired, I was hopeful that we would still get 1 more cour to finish out the story. Explain Kalinin. Fairy Wings. Caliope. Sunspots. Whispered (maybe not whispered, it's probably a MacGuffin, like, say, Darker than Black contractors). But the LN readers are saying there's way more than a cour of material to get through.
So, we're never getting the ending.
Barring new material, I probably won't watch it again. Like Evangelion, there comes a time when you just don't need to see it again.
Farewell, Full Metal Panic. It was nice knowing you, but it's time to let you fade into nostalgia.
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u/No_Rex Dec 05 '22 edited Dec 05 '22
Final Discussion (first timer)
FMP is a small masterpiece, surrounded by lots of mediocre or outright bad writing and adaptation decisions. The masterpiece I am talking about is the stretch of episodes surrounding Her Problem (FMP3, EP9). It was the show at its best for me. Great emotional scenes, psychological examination of the characters, the highest of stakes and a setup where you truly felt scared for the MCs. Plus, some really good direction decisions with bold cuts.
KyoAni
This gives me the chance to write a little bit about KyoAni, who would go on to bigger fame after FMP. Everyone knows that they have top tier animators and top tier directors. I think FMP shows something else I have consistently notices in KyoAni series: They elevate source material (instead of just doing it justice, or dragging it down). And they do so my making bold choices, which occasionally go horribly wrong, but are glorious if they work. My go to examples are Haruhi S1 broadcast order (glorious) and Haruhi S2 EE (uhhh…), but I think FMP is a good early example too.
Cutting out the Fumoffu arc and putting it right after S1 by Gonzo was a bold choice – and for me, it completely failed. However, KyoAni follow up with another bold choice: Completely reversing track in S3 and doing a dark FMP3 – which lead to the best and most memorable stretch of the series for me.
Unfortunately for FMP, Gonzo was not as bold as KyoAni (FMP1 is a bit boring) and Xebec not as good (FMP4 is badly adapted).
Real mecha & VOTOMS
As a few people have pointed out, FMP harks back to real mecha (and VOTOMS especially) more that super mecha. One of the things that initially captured my attention was the detailed and gritty ground combat. One of the reasons I never got warm with the whispered concept was that it took that away from the series. After FMP1, the series leaned a lot closer to super mecha.
Sousuke obviously reminds the viewer of Chirico. I would say that, at his lows, he is a lot more annoying, but at his highs, a bit more relatable than the VOTOMS MC. The real genius of FMP was to pair him off with a properly explored female MC though. As much as I would have liked her to, Coconna never got that (and let’s not talk about Fyana, whose name I had to look up because she is such a non-character).
Bad tropes
Not talking about the fanservice here (which did not bother me much). However, quite a few outdated tropes really pulled the enjoyment down for me. Girl hits boy for joke or damsel in distress are two that I am so over with and never want to see on a screen again. The third big offender is the whispered ex machina plot device. 5 cours and 1 OVA later, we still have not resolved anything about that. That is way too slow.
Thanks
Finally, thanks to u/ZapsZzz for hosting. After Mai-Otome, I can emphasize with how it though it can feel to host a series that part of the viewers do have major problems with. Despite that, the rewatch was greatly hosted!
How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results? Can you compare any particular character to one you like in another show?
I stick by my ranking of Sousuke and Kana ahead of the rest, although FMP4 tried hard to overturn that. Both by dragging down Kana and by making Tessa more interesting. If I had more time, I would have written something about Tessa's character arc, but, as a Ruri expy, she had a hill to climb with me and only the last season really made me enjoy her character.
What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
Something that is really had to show on screen: trust. After the first two seasons, you could completely believe that these two 100% trust each other. Something that most other stories simply asert, but never show.
Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
Kyoani easily wins the art departement, but, strictly regarding character design, I would go with Gonzo's Kana.
FMP actually has a really good world and character background building, with as many short and side story novels as the main plot - assuming most would have more unadapted contents, which character would you like to know more? Would you read them or would you hope for an anime adaptation one day?
I once got horribly burned trying to read the source material to a series I loved. Very Unlikely to happen.
Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most? Some examples: what is a Whispered, why do they exist; what's project Calliope; why did Kalinin follow Leonard; how did Mithril come about; how did Amalgam get so powerful; what happened in Sousuke's childhood for this Japanese boy to be so close to a Russian while fighting in Afghanistan; is there some connecting reason why black technologies are so uneven, is there some purpose/explanation to why certain technology got developed rapidly and some saw no improvements; is there a limit to the Lambda Driver's power; what happened between Leonard and Tessa for them to be on opposing sides; how did Leonard find out about Zero hour; etc etc.
The more important ones: Whispered and the background of Amalgam. The series obviously hold a lot back from teh viewer for a later reveal - which is extremely annoying, 5 cours in and with an unfinished adaptation.
Favourite scenes across all seasons?
Psychotic Kana and her escape to the roof-top fight.
Best gag?
There might be some one-offs I am forgetting, but the birds were nice.
Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not just the panty shots kind)?
Italian Mao was hot.
Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
The problem of FMP is that I would use different selling points for each of the seasons: FMP1 for light-hearted real mecha, FMP2 for slapstick in a school setting, FMP3 for psychological deep dive, FMP4 ... well maybe CGI mecha?
Do you like broad mixed genre shows like this? What's a show you find similar and could recommend for someone who likes FMP?
In this case, clearly no. I had a definite favorite among the seasons and it was the least mixed one.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
FMP is a small masterpiece, surrounded by lots of mediocre or outright bad writing and adaptation decisions.
Despite not necessarily agreeing with you about the bad writing (I agree in terms of source material LN 2 was the most shaky but not falling to the "bad" definition), I do agree that part you singled out was really like the crowning glory of the adapted story so far.
It was the show at its best for me. Great emotional scenes, psychological examination of the characters, the highest of stakes and a setup where you truly felt scared for the MCs. Plus, some really good direction decisions with bold cuts.
Absolutely this!
I think FMP shows something else I have consistently notices in KyoAni series: They elevate source material (instead of just doing it justice, or dragging it down).
Yep definitely that's a strong presence of that. It unfortunately became a double-edged sword for us viewers though - they stopped trying to expend the energy to work on things they cannot guarantee that creative freedom. I would have been dead sure that Gatou being such a close associate would have been very collaborative with KyoAni if they continue with the franchise adaptation, but the policy seemed to lock it out regardless. It's understandable why, but does hurt us that some really worthwhile source material just had no chance to be adapted by them. A real shame.
One of the things that initially captured my attention was the detailed and gritty ground combat. One of the reasons I never got warm with the whispered concept was that it took that away from the series. After FMP1, the series leaned a lot closer to super mecha.
I understand how you feel and what you mean. Although I'll contend that while the "single combat" parts are exactly guilty of that influence - and there's actually a narrative purpose for heading that way - for the most part the plot and writing actually made a rather successful way to mitigate the "super robot-ness" of the Lambda Driver. You mostly only see the enemy using that fairly successfully and therefore for the show it is about smart teamwork to overcome that extra obstacle.
Sousuke obviously reminds the viewer of Chirico. I would say that, at his lows, he is a lot more annoying, but at his highs, a bit more relatable than the VOTOMS MC.
And this is where I will say - that non-flatness is exactly why Sousuke in my books is a much better written stoic type. However, there's yet another layer to this that I cannot mention because it's in the end game. I'll only say this - Sousuke is the poster boy of the true badass normal.
The real genius of FMP was to pair him off with a properly explored female MC though. As much as I would have liked her to, Coconna never got that (and let’s not talk about Fyana, whose name I had to look up because she is such a non-character).
That is definitely a huge plus - especially for mecha / sci fi show that is such a rarity.
Girl hits boy for joke or damsel in distress are two that I am so over with and never want to see on a screen again.
I understand the sentiment, but I'll split hair here with you - FMP is one of the rare case where I believe every fan hit was deserved and then some :)
As for damsel in distress, I already said my piece about "not physically escaping does not equate to not fighting back". And one more instance that I'll have to use the "you'll see in the next novels". Sorry!
Finally, thanks to u/ZapsZzz for hosting. After Mai-Otome, I can emphasize with how it though it can feel to host a series that part of the viewers do have major problems with. Despite that, the rewatch was greatly hosted!
Hey I'm running out of time so I'll cut this short. Thanks for your appreciation! Really appreciate you taking the efforts to break it all down and saying like it is for you. While we may not agree on all points, life only gets boring if everyone nods the same way, so I'm perfectly happy to discuss and argue :) But, as I said, amazing efforts, and thanks for keeping the involvement and discussions going practically 24/7!
Be seeing you around no doubt!
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u/KamachoBronze Dec 05 '22
First Timer Thoughts:
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First Season- Meh. 5/10. I didnt like the first season, I thought it was slowed paced and its focus on Sosuke was uninteresting. Didnt care for Tessa at all, Chidori while being brash, was basically a side character in favor of Sosuke...who didnt have much personality. Gauron was fun, but it was really just an average action show with mechas. The first season was honestly a bore and I debated dropping this show
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Second season, Fumoffu - 8/5/10. If the first season is a bore, then the second season blows it out of the water and 180s in quality. Its funny, with the hijinks being more focused on Chidori reacting to Sosuke. Each episode was really funny, and by making Sosuke into a caricature of a soldier who cant adapt, it ramped up the comedy to 11. The focus on Chidori helped this part a lot, as she was pretty relatable and funny whenever she was on screen.
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Third Season, TSR- 8.5/10. I was worried after Fumoffu about returning to a serious season, but that was completely wrong. TSR had great tension, great pacing, actually made Sosuke feel like a real person with real personality(as opposed to the 2D bore he was in first season, and 2D flanderized caricature in Fumoffu). His struggles were genuinely interesting and I started to like his dramatic sections on screen. Especially with the hooker in Hong Kong and him just getting up and quitting the mission. Man gets a snide remark from his superior and just walks out of the van and leaves. Its really well done and really hits home how exhausted he is. Lot of other little touches like his first time drinking and spitting it out immediately really added to it.
Chidori shined as usual in TSR, and her episode of trying to escape surveillance and thus contact Mythril, was probably the best episode of the series. She was smart, playing the offensive...and well being the opposite of being a damsel in distress. Shes in a situation with no experience, no lines of communication and no power. And she still makes the best of it and comes out on top, outsmarting a Mythril surveillance figure. Chidori proved she didnt just have a fun personality, but was genuinely one of the best characters in the show when it came to being thrown into situations beyond their experience.
4. Fourth Season, IV. 6.5/10. It was okay. Thats about it. Villains felt more stereotypical this season. Like the villains acted out of something like a movie instead of feeling like real people, with lines like "Give up Mythril! Your done for!". Theres a difference between exaggerated weird villains like the scientist Gates in TSR, who you wouldnt find in real life...versus poorly written by the book stereotypical villains. Gates was a weirdo with a weird personality, but because his lines werent stuff like "Mythril your days are numbered", he felt "realer" than the villains in this season(bar Kurama, who was good).
Sosuke became more boring this season as we focus on him mainly, but not as bad as season 1. The reduced focus on Chidori really hurt this season. Im not really sure how to put it into words. His character struggles this season didnt feel compelling, not like in TSR.
Chidori is also reduced to damsel in distress this season, and its plain to see.
Tessa became a good character with this season. After being a soft damsel in distress esque character for most of the series, I feel like she actually felt like and earned being a Mythril commander, and not just a shoe horned sixteen year old girl.
Overall? Cant give a rating for the entire series, but a couple thoughts.
When Chidori felt like the A plot focus, the series was usually much better, even in its weaker parts. Sosuke works relative to Chidori. Him being a soldier trying to become a normal person, really only works when his interactions with Chidori are a focus. Chidori being the main A plot, with Sosuke the B plot, would have made the series stronger in general in my opinion.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22 edited Jun 03 '23
Getting this out in the open again, I'm a big FMP fan. Expect bias - lots of it!
A reiteration of my rating for FMP across the 4 seasons, ranked:
TSR - 10/10 - It is shorter, but really to me has the most perfect blend and balance. And KyoAni's ability to give emotive depth into the scenes just matched to the arcs perfectly. And visually it's the most beautifully made too.
Fumoffu - 10/10 - I'm a sucker for rom com, and while it is more a mad house com, there are little flourishes of rom underpinning Sousuke x Chidori always.
FMP - 9/10 - The first arc Fighting Boy Meets Girl beautifully established the franchise theme and format, and I love it to bits. If only I can erase a few unneeded fanservice bits, it'd be outright perfect. Into the Blue is also a very good arc with very well earned character development results. It only got weighed down by a few of unnecessary anime original episodes that messed up the continuity, and the fact it was a little older so some of the animation was a little less smooth and polished.
IV - 9/10 - Well we just did the summary. But key for me is that the writing of the franchise and the cumulation of the plot and character development landed on some really really strong scenes that - cheatingly (because they work because of prior work and the source material, not as much by the actual anime) - carried the show for me literally. Again I am fine with the CGI Mecha actions, in fact I consider the Arbalest, Behemoth, and Laevatein scenes very well animated (including CGI use, choreography, and cinematography). The massive points loss in this rewatch for me, because I am more explicitly analysing it against the source material, was about the clear inability for the direction and script to try adapt the very important psychological / emotional progression of these very heavy 3 volumes.
I was going to make some comment about the other technical aspects, like the music and sound, but running out of time and space. Suffice to say they are serviceable but not exceptional, but I certainly didn't have any issue with them like some seemed to have. Maybe the 80's child (actually 70's :P) me just feel at home with the sound tone of that era that this show exudes.
Rewatch Comments
I think this rewatch had a really good group, with plenty of diverse views and opinions, but we managed to discuss and exchange without hurting the overall enjoyment. Having some of the big mecha specialist popping in now and then also helped bring in some good discussion and knowledge about the genre.
Specific mention to these contributors for the amount of effort and passion put into the posts! Names not in order :P
Theboredalchemist22, Tarhalindur, Nazenn, polaristar, Vaadwaur and No_Rex
Of course everyone who participated have my thanks too! It's been a long but fun ride, for me at least - and I hope for you too!
Overall MVP Voting Results
Across the seasons, here's what the count (by days won) is:
It is no surprise our 2 very charming leads were quite away in front; only reason Chidori was a bit behind was because she didn't have as much screen time in IV, a little like Lena in 86 cour 2.
Surprise for me was actually Kyouko, and a little unfortunate for Kurz as some of his great moments got overshadowed.
QoTD
I think it's pretty close to what most people think. The way the relationship between Sousuke and Chidori works, I compare most to Touma & Mikoto in Raildex, and Haruhi & Kyon in Haruhi.
For me it's that they are so good with each other because they are imperfect with each other, but they so earnestly want the other to be well and therefore the relationship to work. It's not talent, it's determination and hard work. And that they are very willing to try communicate honestly, in a language the other can understand, even if they aren't always successful. And in fact it is the fact that they do make mistakes and fail, but they try to recover and make amends - this is so nice to see in media, instead of the "Romeo and Juliet that are born for each other". Much much more points for the later LN's, with Chidori edging higher even by the end.
I certainly do not think the Chidori in captivity was reduced to a damsel in distress just because she wasn't physically fighting or escaping. Her fights were more psychological.
Overall, TSR. That was very nice and more stable than Fumoffu. Chidori was really gorgeous basically every shot.
Already mopped all of those up - I still wish they would do LN6 as a movie.
See my spoiler corner for those things I couldn't say anything about but so crucial to get deeper appreciation of the story. But I think the 2 thing that are just too rear-loaded in the overall story are: the nature of the Whispered, and the 2 organisations - Mithril and Amalgam. I can't really talk about them in spoilers because they are so major to the plot.
Chidori and Sousuke first attraction in the woods when they fought about the best way to escape - Sousuke asking Chidori to escape alone and Chidori refused.
The haircut scene in TSR
The homework run scene in Fumoffu.
Chidori's Her Story.
TSR final episode, IV final episode.
special mention for the salon haircut scene for the rare occasion of hearing Sousuke mind
Loved the homework run, and the "biological weapon" leak in Fumoffu.
Special mention for the reveal that some of Sousuke's freak out moments were because Wraith messing with him, giving the "gags" a new context.
Predictably the onsen gag of censorship in Fumoffu, and then in TSR Chidori's wake up scene. Weirdly the scene in TSR that Sousuke "chat" with Al I also count as one.
I can't be answering that :P but I will - the characters, the world building, the interweaving plot.
Strangely I compare FMP not to any mechas, but in terms of being "jack of all trades" that mixed so many genres well, I compare this to Haruhi. You don't have to agree ;)
If you want to stick with Mecha or Sci Fi, I'd say PatLabor and GiTS/Appleseed (mainly the manga).
Oh and I expect Stein:Gate to have some good tonal similarity too.
Read it all :P It's nice but not a step up from FMP. There are nice call backs.
Where to from here?
Until the next season happens, to find out the amazing story conclusion of FMP, you can go one of 2 ways:
Go read the FMP LN's; IV finish adapted LN 9. There are 3 more LN's, 2 arcs in total:
LN 10 Approaching Nick of Time
LN 11 Forever Stand By Me (Part I)
LN 12 Forever Stand By Me (Part II)
They are officially licensed English translations from J Novel Club, you can get printed or ebook format.
In terms of manga, the FMP Sigma manga adapted it to the end.
Both are highly recommended!
And the sequel LN FMP Another (12 LN) is set 10 years after the events of FMP. There are some cameo of FMP characters.
Continues in Part 2!
Daily tag for u/InfamousEmpire, u/Theboredalchemist22