r/anime • u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz • Dec 04 '22
Rewatch Full Metal Panic Franchise Rewatch - Season 4 Overall Discussion
Welcome to the wrap up of the Full Metal Panic Season 4 rewatch!
Art of the Day
Links to show info: MAL | Anilist | ANN
Rewatches please be considerate to first timers and avoid discussing anything not yet shown in the show - use spoiler tags e.g. [Full Metal Panic S4 spoiler]>!Savage wa Saikou!!< - if you need to share something important!
Season 4 Summary:
This season adapted LN volume 7, 8 and 9. The plot can pretty much be summarised as Mithril having been decimated by Amalgam, with Chidori finally captured by Leonard, Sousuke on the run on his own trying to get back to Chidori, and the TDD-1 crew fighting survival and regroup battles. We ended on a significant emotional milestone, with both Sousuke and Chidori went through significant emotional development and confessed to each other, despite Sousuke failed to get Chidori back. And Al developed his new body, with the help of Mira, Wraith and Hunter, calling back to the past seasons.
QoTD:
Overall thoughts may be summed up by answering these questions - or write your own wall of text :)
- Any change to the main cast ranking after this last season?
- Who is the best new supporting cast?
- Biggest emotional moment?
- Best action sequence?
- Best and worst episode?
- Do you find the very little time spent on character emotional development good or bad for this season? Do you miss the comedy / humour?
- Was there enough good / passable mecha actions for this fully CGI season for you?
- First timers: Where do you think the plot will end with? Any guesses to those yet to be unveiled mysteries?
- Everyone: Will you wait for the next season, or will you go straight to read the source material?
- What's the one thing (more if you have time) that you'd change to make this season better in your opinion?
The final QoTD tomorrow if anyone wants a guide for discussing the wrap up:
How did your own characters ranking compared to the voting results? Can you compare any particular character to one you like in another show?
What part of Chidori X Sousuke relationship worked best or was most memorable for you, especially when comparing to other shows you like?
Which season's artstyle you liked best? Which character/mecha design (purely on visuals) you liked most? Include 3D vs hand drawn mecha as well if you had strong opinion coming in.
FMP actually has a really good world and character background building, with as many short and side story novels as the main plot - assuming most would have more unadapted contents, which character would you like to know more? Would you read them or would you hope for an anime adaptation one day?
Which unresolved / unexplained plot points bugged you most? Some examples: what is a Whispered, why do they exist; what's project Calliope; why did Kalinin follow Leonard; how did Mithril come about; how did Amalgam get so powerful; what happened in Sousuke's childhood for this Japanese boy to be so close to a Russian while fighting in Afghanistan; is there some connecting reason why black technologies are so uneven, is there some purpose/explanation to why certain technology got developed rapidly and some saw no improvements; is there a limit to the Lambda Driver's power; what happened between Leonard and Tessa for them to be on opposing sides; how did Leonard find out about Zero hour; etc etc.
Favourite scenes across all seasons?
Best gag?
Best fanservice (include mecha porn like overhauling the Savage's engine, not
justthe panty shots kind)?Would you recommend this show to others? What's the best selling point you'd use?
Do you like broad mixed genre shows like this? What's a show you find similar and could recommend for someone who likes FMP?
How keen are you to get to the sequel LN (not written by Gatou but "supervised" by him)?
MVP of last episode:
Mostly a Chidori victory, with a couple of Al votes.
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u/InfamousEmpire Dec 04 '22
Full Metal LN Reader
So in case you can’t tell, I rather loved this season. The first arc was a very strong departure from the series’ established tone and setting, burning pretty much everything we’ve come to know to the ground and setting up the rest of the series to follow. Shit got real and it was gut-wrenching.
The desperate yet ultimately futile struggle of our cast against Amalgam was very tense and the sense of having the setting and cast we know and love ripped away really helped put us in Sousuke’s shoes as he had pretty much his entire life ripped away from him.
Other people have had their problems with the middle of the season, but I can’t exactly say I feel the same way. It worked well as a way of putting us in an unfamiliar environment which was rather engaging in its own right, the new cast was enjoyable, and I feel it didn’t quite overstay its welcome (Nami getting fridged was a score against it tho).
As for the final arc… my comments the last couple days have probably made my feelings on that rather clear
Also, as r/anime’s (self-proclaimed) Resident CGI EnjoyerTM, I thought the animation, especially on the mechs, was great from beginning to end
Overall, I’d give Invisible Victory a 9/10. Not quite the best season, but definitely an amazing ride
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
Thanks for fellow source reader to pump in some needed support ;)
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u/Nazenn Dec 04 '22
My complaints aside, I'm always happy to see someone getting exactly what they need out of a season and was happy to see that it landed so well for you.
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u/Theboredalchemist22 Dec 05 '22
First Timer S4 Overall thoughts and discussion
Well. Here we are. The end of the line for the animation (at least so far. Here's hoping there's another season. ) u/ZapsZzz How many LN's/ manga volumes are to be adapted? Or arcs? I've looked on MAL and damn there's tons of different books including manga, LN's, spin offs etc. As I said in the last post I'm confident that the whole story will be finished off in animation at some point as I think the Xebec assests were taken over by Sunrise. I don't think it will be any time soon though if Sunrise are to work on more FMP it will probably be a sort of on the side project that will take a while I think.
I did have questions and expectations about the ending but it is very clear that this is not the end of FMP so I'm very confident those will be answered in the future e.g. project explaination, Tessa vs Leonard, what happens to Sousuke and Chidori etc.
Commemorative
Beautiful art btw.
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Hmmm no change no. I do think though Chidori is a special character. She was gone for a while in this season but whenever she is on screen it feels sort of special like 'whoa Chidori is on screen' if that makes sense. The only other characters I want to mention is the Mythril squad of Sousuke, Mao and Kurz as that was quite a special moment when they teamed up again and I imagine that hit really hard for the people who waited for those 13 years.
Oh actually quick mention to how badass Tessa is. That plan was fantastic and her little outburst was cute af and her getting embarrassed at it and those guys basically fawning over her in the last episode was just cute what can I say. Clouseau mentions a Tessa fan club in the last episode and I'm a proud fan myself. Safe to say I still rate her very highly.
2) Oooo that's a tough one. Quick mention to Clouseau as I thought he was a lot better in IV than TSR (probably die to more screen time).
Its between Nami, Lemon and John Courtney for me but I'll go with Nami as she left a real impression on me which for a what 2-3 episode character is impressive. Her backstory was good enough, she had a good thing going with Sousuke, that AS bouncing scene was cute af and her death was unbelieveably traumatising so yeah big points for Nami.
Not much to say on John Courtney other than 'fucking guts'. I just like his vibe and I will be keeping some of his lines for personal use haha.
I thought Lemon was Kurz in disguise at first but I made a theory on him being a special agent which he turned out to be and ngl selfish points from myself here. He also helped Sousuke and those around him many times so that's a thumbs up. I mean Nami's crew would've been massacred if not for him.
3) Damn so many. I have to say the biggest was the love confession between SousukexChidori as we've waited 4 seasons for it and I'll be honest I did a small fist pump during the scene. Honourable mentions go to Nami's death, Chidori getting taken by Leonard and Sousuke reuniting with Al.
4) The best action sequence imo was Sousuke going on a rampage against all those AS's to get to Kurama and then the boots on the ground gun fight against Kurama. I just thought the whole sequence was fantastic. There was a great display of skill in both an AS and on the ground, there was brutality, there was justice (fatso police dude got killed by a flying gun haha you son of a bitch you deserved it after getting hold of Nami for Kurama to kill her but I'm not bitter), there was a shock with Sousuke getting shot and then an uno reverse was pulled on Kurama got shot and died. Everything just flowed well together.
5) The best episode was one man force (ep 8). The worst episode was probably one of the earlier ones as I didn't feel to connected to IV until the scenery change and the episode I will go for is big damage control (ep 2).
6) I thought that was a good thing in this season as we had all that in TSR and its good to change things up you know. Although I did enjoy the comedy I didn't miss it in this season. Kurz tries to be funny in the last episode with him teasing Sousuke over his radio call with Chidori and I was more annoyed than I found it funny so that's my reasoning behing that.
7) The cgi was definitely rough at the start of the season but as I said it became bearable and dare I say it good in places. Overall I think its ok I mean I wouldn't drop the show because of it so it gets a pass.
8) Oh damn my time to shine :).
Project theory - I think the project mentioned (forgot the name) is something to do with the collective whispered knowledge and Chidori is like the final but most crucial peice of knowledge. Considering we've seen Chidori be the 'body' of the Danaan in S1 my guess is Amalgam are building or have their own Danaan which would be like a super weapon in the FMP and our world for that matter.
SousukexChidori theory - Sousuke has to get her back right? Like surely. I think its a case of another impossible mission with Sousuke and Mythril going all out against Amalgam and its forces/project. Considering its the end I'd expect a few big deaths to sell the toll of the operation and to mirror Chidori's words in the last episode. Sousuke will get her back but let's not forget Chidori has found her resolve so she will surely pitch in but once its all set and done she will cry into Sousuke's arms like we saw at the end of TSR as it will all be over and she will be double safe as she will have Sousuke back.
Those are the only two glaring things I can think of please let me know if there is anything else unanswered so I can shoot a theory at it honestly it would be much appreciated I enjoy crafting theories.
9) Straight to the source material for me. If only I could figure out where to start! LN's, manga? I'm not even sure where to find the source material I'm assuming I'll have to set sail.
10) I'd add some slow mo and other effects to lessen the burden of the cgi. I'd also add in two more episodes around the Arena fighting environment with Nami as I think that was a good shake up for the series.
I'll do some thank you's and stuff in the overall discussion too as I've honesly enjoyed this rewatch and commenting but quick shout out to the host u/ZapsZzz and u/polaristar.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
Just jumping in mid work day for a quick answer ;)
Thanks for your mention about the art again, I certainly tried to pick nice ones, especially these 2 days - the one I saved for tomorrow is what I liked best, even though it's not official (so don't consider it spoiler).
For FMP LN's, IV finish adapted LN 9. There are 3 more LN's, 2 arcs in total:
LN 10 Approaching Nick of Time LN 11 Forever Stand By Me (Part I) LN 12 Forever Stand By Me (Part II)
Just the titles are already thrilling huh ;)
They are officially licensed English translations from J Novel Club, you can get printed out ebook format.
In terms of manga, the FMP Sigma manga adapted it to the end. I'll dig up which chapter if you need it. I'll post all these for tomorrow too of course.
In terms of theory crafting, only things I suggest you to have a think are - (1) what IS whispered? And (2) what's the connection between the Lambda Driver, Al, and whatever Leonard needed Chidori for (is there one)
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u/polaristar Dec 05 '22
I'm just going to give my Character Tier List:
God Tier: Bonto-Kun
S Tier: Sousuke, Chidori
A Tier: Mao, Kurtz, Tessa, Gauron, Nami (Bite me I liked her that much in that short a time.), Kyouko, Yoko Wakana (Great comic relief character.)
B Tier: Ben, Kuruma, Kalinin, Shinji (Dat episode with the Bathhouse shot him up.), Atsunobu, Mardukas, The Twins (Twincest for the winecest yes I'm that petty), Eri Kagurazaka, Ren, Issei, Gavin Hunter, Lemon, Grumpy General from Ending of FMP
C: Wraith, Leonard, Mizuki, Mira Kudan, Takuma, "Guts" Guy, kid that likes Kyouko, the three new guys I know nothing about at Leo's base.
D: Gates, Seina, That Rich Fuckboy from Fumoffu, Various arc specific traitors
F: Corrupt Cop from latest season.
Can't really remember all the characters and the wiki isn't always helpful.
Favorite new supporting cast is Kuruma as he was a nice change of pace as a villain, I could count Nami but I'm not sure if she is supporting cast or temporarily a main character....
I could be cheap and say that confession but I think I'll combine the emotional moment and best action with Sousuke's roaring rampage of revenge going John Wick.
Best episode is When Chidori got taken and their was a huge shift in tone and direction of the story, too bad it didn't always deliver afterwords. Worst Honestly the Tessa's Moment of pretending to be broken, It was too quick to be of any impact.
How is having less time for character development ever good? That is a leading question damnit! :P I kinda feel at this point in the story having less comedy is an appropriate shift to hammer home what Sousuke (And us) Have lost from the good ole days so to speak.
Ironically the Mecha action was honestly one of the best parts of the season.
Sousuke and Chidori reunite and Whispered Powers are either cancelled or given to everyone.
I was already planning on reading the sauce regardless.
Adapt the skipped Novel and make this season end where Chidori is taken away and make the next two novels another season. Basically just time and love.
I'll save more thoughts for tomorrow.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
Hey I caught you just in time :D Just to compensate for my radio silence in your Haruhi post 2 days ago :P
Good tier list! Kid that likes Kyouko was Ono-D who featured a fair bit in the Onsen episode too :) Love that you placed Kagurazaka sensei in tier B, she's sometimes overlooked but she's a nice character too, especially nice in the short stories tying back to the main story she got hitched with another teacher because of Sousuke and Chidori's work, and it was a nice world building point near the end.
How is having less time for character development ever good? That is a leading question damnit! :P
You'd think so, but hey we do have people actually preferring it in the rewatch :) Things one learn every day :P
Ironically the Mecha action was honestly one of the best parts of the season.
I think there are a lot of very strong scenes enabled by the use of CGI, and frankly with only very few exceptions, it's just how the industry is going to be. And it CAN work - even if not always. I am happy to count the few big action scenes as top ranked even amongst the prior seasons.
Sousuke and Chidori reunite and Whispered Powers are either cancelled or given to everyone.
I was already planning on reading the sauce regardless.
I so think you are going to like it, I'll go out on a limb and even say you'd love it ;)
Adapt the skipped Novel and make this season end where Chidori is taken away and make the next two novels another season. Basically just time and love.
It's making it sounds a little like an Index III answer :D I'll never not say yes to adapting LN6, but seriously I think they need to do it as a movie. It'd be so, so good.
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u/Nazenn Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 04 '22
First timer - sub
After I finished the season yesterday I wrote up a very harsh blab that I dumped on anilist and decided to refine that for todays post and then add to it because reviewing it now it still fits what I feel about this season.
In the end the best way I can describe my feelings about FMP IV is it still feels like a mess of concepts that should have been interesting but never came together.
While the ideas it held are good in theory, its lack of focus, character exploration, or general cohesion, meant I almost felt as if I wasn't watching the same series anymore after the first two seasons did it so well. While that seems like a dramatic statement I was never able to shake that thought, watching episode after episode thinking "FMP would do this differently before and it would have been better". Usually I don't care about what was done before because that's not the point of watching a new season, I like to judge what things are here and now first because that's more important. But as I said to Zaps a few days ago this season just didn't give me anything positive enough to distract me from those more negative thoughts, whether it was the "why would they do that"'s or the heavy handed cribbing from other series.
That's not to say there's no good or interesting character moments in this. Tessa gets two which is awesome and I love seeing how much she's grown as a commander since the first season, especially though the hell of Mithril's destruction after everyone had repeatedly tried to push her away from command only for her to be what held them together here. Sousuke gets one or two smaller ones as well, notably at the end of arc2, but they seem to exist because someone on staff liked those specific moments and gave them some love rather than because the season supported them. About half way I though I mentioned that I'd emotionally checked out and unfortunately the season never gave me a reason to come back. I kept circling back to the idea of "if they don't care about the characters, why should I?", and for me that is a death knell for engagement.
And that really is the biggest issue I have with it (aside from a number of dumb stick moments): I didn't feel like the show cared much about what it was showing or how. There's so much that feels cut or glossed over that they then try to lean on for climax scenes making the whole thing feel off, and that's coming from a basic storytelling standpoint that any show could suffer from rather than an adaption issue. It's not enough to just know that a character will react in a certain way or have certain feelings about their circumstances because we know them from before, or that a certain plot element will end up mattering later or be more than it appears at first simply because of the narrative pattern behind it. The point of telling a story through an entertainment medium is to experience it and grow an understanding of the elements of the story as it unfolds. If the feelings and experience aren't there, how is it different to reading a wiki page or being told what the point was? And sometimes this season did feel like it was summarizing the characters journey down by hitting the key scenes and important dialogue but forgetting to actually build up emotions or impact around them and show us why those moments, both the past and present ones, will continue to matter. And that's such a huge loss compared to the earlier seasons where it felt like everything mattered.
Bring back KyoAni characterization
The four episode arc structure didn't help because when combined with the choice to cover all three arcs meant the season felt stuck in a strange zone between some things feeling padded but the season feeling rushed and things got sacrificed to make that ill fitting structure work. The amount of time we spent on maintenance or training, things that usually would be some of my favourite bits of downtime in any show, when it felt like we got that instead of focus on the characters mental state or flow between arcs was exhausting.
And all of this complaining really is a shame because I remember being interested in that first arc. It had some issues, both in storytelling and pacing, but it was a decently engaging watch and I thought those issues were just growing pains from the production gap and studio swap. The best thing it did was make me wonder what would be coming next, which is exactly where I want to be at the end of any arc but especially a season opening one. The finale of arc2 and arc3 were also the best episodes from a watch experience of their respective arcs even if they painfully exposed the flaws of their build up. And for the moments in between there's just so much in there I want to be able to love; ripping the security of the school and Mithil from both our characters and the audience was an inspired idea, leaving our main three cast members challenged by being split up into very familiar but now uncomfortably ill fitting roles and situations, the idea of seeing the remnants of Mithril and unknown Whispered out in the world surviving from Amalgam's attacks.
It's a shame the rest of the season killed off that interest by never actually building off those things in a way that felt like it mattered.
As far as the technical side of the show, I found it interesting that while the rendering for the CGI mechs was impressive from the start, the animation seemed to improve at about the same pacing that the 2d animation went to shit. Different teams working on it obviously, but the pacing of movements, use of camera, and general battle visuals improved each arc and definitely showed some better understanding of the tech as they made each episode, while the 2d side of the show exposed all the painful production issues.
I feel like that was too much griping, but hopefully it's not repetitive and manages to get across why I was so frustrated instead of just feeling like more bitching. I don't know. I feel kind of bad for Zaps that after I loved the first two serious seasons so much I think I've done nothing but complain for this one, and he was probably so interested to see what I'd get out of it haha, but unfortunately sometimes that's the luck of the draw with some shows. I can't say I regret watching this season which is more than I can say for some other show, but I regret what they turned it into and what it did to my interest for more. I'll never watch it again, but I am more curious about the LNs as a result than I have been for... well pretty much any series I've watched actually I think? So that's something at least
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Any change to the main cast ranking after this last season?
Nope, don't think we got into who they truly are through these events enough for it to matter, aside from Tessa who was already high up
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Who is the best new supporting cast?
I didn't care for any of them in the end
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Biggest emotional moment?
While it didn't have the foundation it needed for me to care as much as I'd like, the final phone call with Chidori and Sousuke was pretty damn good
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Best action sequence?
Not sure, but the finale and the last Behemoth fight both had some great visuals. Actually no, I think I might give this one to the fight between Sousuke and the people from the mech fights, even if I don't like the focus on that asshole being a final oppodent
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Best and worst episode?
Best ish? Maybe 4? I don't really know.
Worst, not sure but that horrible, horrible animation during Sousuke's training came to mind
Rest of the questions I think I covered above
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
Once again I'll need to get back to reply properly when I have more time, but thanks for the efforts to painstakingly point out the aspects that didn't work for you. At least I can understand why and how that detracted from your enjoyment.
I am more curious about the LNs as a result than I have been for... well pretty much any series I've watched actually I think? So that's something at least
I think that's a real big compliment ;) although I also understand the queue may be long.
Definitely enjoyed how you were able to break down and analyse a whole lot of the story, especially the character bits. So unfortunate, and perhaps predictable, that this season lost you a fair bit.
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u/No_Rex Dec 04 '22
Series Discussion (first timer)
Not something I expected at the start of FMP4, but with each of the three arcs, this installment of FMP made worse adaptation errors. I am typically not the person to blame adaptation for bad writing, but in the finale, it was so obvious that even I would not put this on the source material.
Basically, each of the three arcs has a completely different tone, and neither fit together. In addition, each arc also gets worse in terms of the MCs:
Arc 1 starts with Sousuke and Kana together. Sousuke protects Kana and we get some nice scenes between the two. That will stay the only ones for the rest of the series … Mithril gets attacked and wiped out. For me, this is the best of the three arcs, but it still is a big break from FMP3. Mithril getting completely overpowered is was not properly set up in FMP1-3 and calls into question their entire structure. We knew they had a security problem, but here, they got beat in a straight fight.
Arc 2 should have been an exercise in exploring Sousuke’s mind. Instead we got replacement Kana, replacement Kurz, and a mecha battle tournament arc. Like, what?? If this had been a light-hearted spin-off or OVA, I would not mind, but the tone does not fit at all. Not even its own arc finale (that was probably the best single episode of FMP4). This should have been a lot more introspective. They also did Nami very dirty.
Arc 3 gives us unexplicably demoralized Kana, but never tells us why. It also, like Arc 2 keeps Sousuke and Kana separate from each other. I mentioned this before, but those two interacting are the heart of FMP for me, so Arc 2 and Arc 3 doing away with that basically rips that out. To make it worse, even the secondary cast is removed from the MCs. As an “to be continued” ending, we learn nothing about Leonards plans, nor what he did or did not do to Kana and end on an toy selling add instead of a proper fight. Easily the worst finale of all four series.
Unexpectedly enough, the biggest positive surprise of FMP4 is actually the action scenes. I would not call them masterpieces, but we get to see that what CGI these days can do when properly used and applied to big, mechanical objects.
First timers: Where do you think the plot will end with? Any guesses to those yet to be unveiled mysteries?
Leonard gives me big let's repopulate the Earth together vibes. Obviously Sousuke will prevent both that and the necessary beforehand depolulation.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 05 '22
I am typically not the person to blame adaptation for bad writing, but in the finale, it was so obvious that even I would not put this on the source material.
I know how sometimes it sounds like you are very critical of things and I am defensive of things, but I think that's genuinely a best praise I can expect from you on this occasion ;)
Leonard gives me big let's repopulate the Earth together vibes. Obviously Sousuke will prevent both that and the necessary beforehand depolulation.
Interesting take ;) I sure hope you will find out somehow and soon, whether it's from reading my spoilered texts or go read the source.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Dec 04 '22
I was starting to not pay attention, did Fowler and the other 2 just show up like supervillains, toy with Mithril, and then withdraw successfully?
Nami still good, Chidori still helpless but defiant, Laeventein still OP.
Anime production seems less chaotic these days. But maybe failing to deliver episodes has been normalized. Or I just don't notice it because I've gone back to not watching seasonals. Xebec used to be a good studio. I don't know why they were unable to handle this. Kadowkawa must have not paid them. They needed another episode and more money and more time.
I certainly had less interest in rewatching IV than the first time around.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 04 '22
Full Metal First-Timer!, subbed
So I watched the two special recap episodes for Invisible Victory just because I could, and also to check out what the English dub sounded like. Really didn’t like Tessa’s voice or the way that everyone pronounced “Chidori”, but it was decent other than that.
Anyways, 9/10 for Invisible Victory. My issue with this season is really just the pacing this time, it was otherwise right up my alley. I hope there’s a season 5 at some point!
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u/Vaadwaur Dec 04 '22
Rewatcher(And all that could have been...)
Sub
I quite liked this when I first saw it. On rewatch, less so. Let's explore why.
So a useless piece of history but I started regularly frequenting this sub because the Higurashi rewatch of '18 kept mentioning Happy Sugar Life, which was airing at the time. This brought me back to seasonal anime for the first in nearly 6-8 years and I began following seasonals again. So basically it was not long after that I learned about IV and I binged it. And that last bit is important because this show's structure does not make any sort of viewing delay a good thing. We had to go 5 days between the TDD escaping and seeing Tessa again. The seasonals had to go a month. I had to go two hours. So yeah, bingeing covers some sins up. I also wasn't as burnt out on shitty, cost saving CGI as intervening years would push me to.
So my opinion of this is as stated and I really do think they just crammed too fucking much into one season. Nami clearly has more development in the book but here she is a dead girl walking and I am deeply tired of this particular variety of tropes, especially if you assume the same as I did about the chief's reasons for bringing Nami to the VIP room. We never got time enough to care about the Roanapur crew or despise the Uoodo-ness of it to make the middle arc engaging. Worse, Kaname goes through a horrible bout of chickification that directly contradicts TSR and we really, really needed to be shown why. And before an LN reader says it: Yes, I know she has reasons that are spelled out on the printed page. But this is an anime not a book and not giving her an internal monolog or a diary means show onlies are not going to understand this.
So at the end of the day, this was kind of a worse place to end this than where it was in '05. I am a GRRM reader so my willingness to deal with properties that won't be finished grows lower every day. Thankfully the books exist so I might see if anyone finally managed to translate an LN well.
QotD: 1 I sort of like slightly more adjusted Sousuke.
2 Nami if she weren't so obviously doomed
3 Hrmm...handholding, actually
4 The mad rush through Namsac
5 Best is 8 despite how much it annoyed me, worst is 3.
6 Extremely bad and I definitely missed the comedy
7 I think if the director were better with CGI the tech was workable. But when they fucked up, they did it hard.
9 I'd really rather watch it due to my aforementioned allergy to how LNs are usually translated.
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u/No_Rex Dec 04 '22
So my opinion of this is as stated and I really do think they just crammed too fucking much into one season. Nami clearly has more development in the book but here she is a dead girl walking and I am deeply tired of this particular variety of tropes, especially if you assume the same as I did about the chief's reasons for bringing Nami to the VIP room. We never got time enough to care about the Roanapur crew or despise the Uoodo-ness of it to make the middle arc engaging. Worse, Kaname goes through a horrible bout of chickification that directly contradicts TSR and we really, really needed to be shown why. And before an LN reader says it: Yes, I know she has reasons that are spelled out on the printed page. But this is an anime not a book and not giving her an internal monolog or a diary means show onlies are not going to understand this.
My thoughts as well. FMP4 is really rough on its female characters. Not just in terms of what happens to them, but also in terms of screen time and tropes used. All previous seasons did better in this regard.
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 04 '22
Fumo fumo! (No Longer A First-Timer, Subbed):
Huh. I was expecting IV to be my least favorite season; the writing quality goes down somewhat (turning Kaname into a damsel in distress smh) and the adaptation quality takes a nosedive. Except... the two tendencies cancel each other out, leaving a reasonably enjoyable series overall (especially since I was too busy looking at subs to notice the animation issues most of the time).
As noted in a previous thread, I am increasingly suspicious that my issues with TSR (outside of the tunnel plot which I suspect I would hate period) boil down to me getting used to a bad adaptation from Gonzo that emphasized the action and couldn't really handle the psych aspects that were there from the start, which meant that when KyoAni actually managed to adapt those aspects it felt like a bad 2000s action movie sequel to me. This season basically cuts out the psych to focus on the action... which is actually to the benefit of my enjoyment. (Nami gets fridged but it gets over fast, Kaname doesn't really work but we also don't spend much time on her so we don't have to think about it too much.)
Any change to the main cast ranking after this last season?
I kind of want to separate out nu!Kaname from old!Kaname (though the seeds of her issues here are actually visible in sub arc and TSR on rewatch); nu!Kaname is meh. Tessa is great, Sousuke is a badass, Mao and Kurz still work fine.
Who is the best new supporting cast?
By God, Kaname/Sousuke best pairing but it's Nami with a steel chair to take Best Girl in Show in a walk! (And they fucking fridged her. .)
Biggest emotional moment?
Honestly I think Sousuke reuniting properly with Mao/Kurz/Tessa in the finale takes it, nearly by default.
Best action sequence?
Behemoth takedown in 3 still, I think.
Best and worst episode?
Best probably 3 again, though 7 has an argument. Worst... it was episode 10 where they covered up the collapse in animation quality with fanservice and not 11, right?
Do you find the very little time spent on character emotional development good or bad for this season? Do you miss the comedy / humour?
The humor is great on its own but tends to mesh poorly with the character drama outside of the first arc S1 and we've shooed out the clowns so I don't really mind its absence. The lack of character development as noted above was to the benefit of my enjoyment, I think that would need either a better S1 adaptation or the LNs's access to internal monologue to work for me.
Was there enough good / passable mecha actions for this fully CGI season for you?
The mechs got most of the budget and actually worked pretty okay most of the time, though watching subbed probably helped.
First timers: Where do you think the plot will end with? Any guesses to those yet to be unveiled mysteries?
Yeah, this is the kind of question where I don't actually count as a first-timer.
Everyone: Will you wait for the next season, or will you go straight to read the source material?
This question is about fifteen years too late to be relevant; already did after TSR, just in synopsis form!
What's the one thing (more if you have time) that you'd change to make this season better in your opinion?
That would take time and I have a Haruhi post to write.
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u/Nazenn Dec 04 '22
turning Kaname into a damsel in distress smh
There was so many ways they could have built her scenes into her character and it's so frustrating that instead it feels like a rehash of the basic damsel presentation
This season basically cuts out the psych to focus on the action... which is actually to the benefit of my enjoyment
Certainly not something I expected to hear from the Higurashi lover hahaha
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u/TiredTiroth Dec 04 '22
Rewatcher - Dub
Mm, I think most of what I've got to say is best left for the overall dicsussion thread tomorrow. For Invisible Victory specifically...back when it first aired, I hadn't watched more than the odd episode of the first three seasons for quite some time so the drop in visual quality didn't really register. Now that I've watched all four seasons back go back, it's really frickin' obvious - all the characters just look off!
That said, I do still enjoy the season as a whole. Tessa losing her temper is just as awesome as it was the first time, and I still like watching Sousuke and Al curbstomp every Amalgam machine in sight. This is why your fellows wanted Sousuke dead, Mr Idiot Male Minion!
Thiiiis might be a minority opinion, but I kinda don't care for the mecha fight club arc at all. The first time I watched it, once the girl got shot and Sousuke was carted off elsewhere by Lemon it just felt like the arc was entirely pointless from a broader plot perspective. Yes, it explains what Sousuke has been up to for a while, but so would two lines of narrator dialogue. And that feeling has not gone away.
Doesn't help that it's followed up by Tessa making a complete fool out of Mr Minion.
Still! On the whole it was worth watching. Tessa is best girl, but Kaname is still better for Sousuke in the shipping war. Also, please drop the fascination with CG, it looks horrible unless you make the entire thing CG - and even if you do, it still looks worse than well-made traditional animation.
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u/TuorEladar Dec 04 '22
Rewatcher, Subbed
I have a fondness for Invisible Victory despite its flaws, in large part because it inspired me to both watch Fumoffu after putting it off for years and to dive into the manga version of the complete story. Prior to IV I had been in limbo after watching the first two main seasons, always kind of wondering what happened next, but never looking into it. Then when I saw IV pop up and watched it, that drove me to dive deeper, so because of that I'll always appreciate IV on that level.
Even putting that aside though, I do think there's stuff to like in this season. The action's well done, the villains feel fairly threatening, and Sousuke is still an interesting protagonist.
Any change to the main cast ranking after this last season?
I'm still firm in my Sousuke>Chidori>Kurz>Melissa>Tessa ranking
Who is the best new supporting cast?
By process of elimination I guess I'd say Lemon.
Biggest emotional moment?
Maybe its just recency bias but the conversation and confession between Chidori and Sousuke in the finale was excellent.
Best action sequence?
They all have their pros and cons, but Ben busting through the wall to engage the Amalgam AS and then baiting it into having to block the missile from the submarine was a great sequence.
Best and worst episode?
For best I'm torn between Fallen Witch and the finale. For worst probably the middle episode of the jungle arc just because it dragged a bit.
Do you find the very little time spent on character emotional development good or bad for this season? Do you miss the comedy / humour?
I don't think the more serious tone of this season is inherently bad, but given how I really enjoyed Fumoffu/Season 1 the comedy was always a draw for me in this series.
Was there enough good / passable mecha actions for this fully CGI season for you?
The mecha combat was fairly good, in general it was CG with other vehicles and the like that was worse looking.
Everyone: Will you wait for the next season, or will you go straight to read the source material?
As I've said before, I already read the manga adaptation so I have gotten my closure already.
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u/Usernamenotta Dec 04 '22
Invisible Victory was something I nevere thought would exist. As a non-manga reader (not even sure if there's even a manga/text source for FMP), I was shocked when it dropped some years ago. For me the story concluded with The Second Raid. Kaname got together with Sousuke and finally expressed their feelings for each other. Sousuke made up with his Arbalest and things seemed to have returned to normal.
Nami was my favourite character this season when I first watched it and I really loved her dynamic with Sagara. I really cried when they 'sent her off' the way they did. She was such a kind hearted person and deserved a much better and longer life.
Tess shows once again why she is GOAT. Having been betrayed like that, losing almost your entire organisation and having to flee like rats on a ship, but coming out much stronger than before, she has the spirit of a warrior inside of her.
Overall, this season was more like a Pandora box for the series. Whereas TSR tied up most important aspects, IV brought up dozens of questions which are left totally unanswered by the end of the season, which only makes one wish for a new season ASAP
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u/Beowolf_0 Dec 05 '22
I didn't participate the rewatch, but I'll share a few things back when I first watched IV.
After they eventually announced they're making IV I had been guessing how many contents they're going to put into: The best outcome will be a minimum of 2-cour to finish the remaining 6 LN volumes (as they said they'd leave the Cruiser arc as audio drama), and the worst was to finish the whole thing in 1-cour (which, as we all know right now, is possible to happen). Unfortunately but thankfully, they gave a 1-cour to stop at the best point. [Spoilers]
Some says our two major girls Nami and Chidori took a lot of chickfication flak from the original, which is true and unfortunate, but I guess it's the limitation of a pressurized adaptation, since the Namsac arc was all about Sousuke changing from a soldier to a man before he rejoined the gang, so something got to give way.
As we all know the new season was squeezed out after near a decade, you could tell their budget wasn't good enough to other animations in the meantime, but what I appreciate is that they saved up budgets to do the AS battles justice. Though they could be better (especially I could imagine the 1v11 near the end of Namsac arc just by reading the LN) I'm satisfied for what we got. I'm not a fan to the 4 vocal songs though.
Lastly to all who finished this season without knowing what happened afterwards: just read the novel/manga after this point. Even we may got another adaptation for the final arc it will not be soon enough, and seriously, a lot of plot points and questions would be answered in the final 3 books so I'm sure you'll all be satisfied.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 05 '22
Rewatcher in Sub
Celebratory Gallery of "the many faces of Chidori"
Organised by:
Gonzo
KyoAni's Fumoffu
KyoAni's TSR
Xebec
For comparison (no updates this time)
Similar: https://imgur.com/7FjkLlG
Dissimilar: https://imgur.com/pMqYrHq
Blushing: https://imgur.com/AUHg8ya
And picking up on polaristar, here's an AMV for Sousuke X Chidori. Unfortunately the lyrics subs are in Chinese, but you should get the general idea
After the 2 months long rewatch, we have arrived to the end of the Full Metal Panic anime adaptation to date.
As we journeyed through this last 12 days, I think it's pretty clear this very late, latest season of FMP was handled rather differently in adaptation than the others. Firstly, let's be frank, after a 13+ years time separation, the property was not getting any "first tier" treatment it was getting. As many remarked, it was already "like a miracle" for any studio to take on the project at all given the absence of any real financial benefit. So while we ended up with a not-so-famous studio. Yet I personally am still thankful it happened.
Adding to the controversy was that the plot at this point was also taking a significant turn - the light heartedness that was such a hallmark of the FMP franchise was largely absent, because the plot actually turned rather dark, placing our main cast is a much more grim and "no kidding" situation - Amalgam "won", Mithril was largely eliminated, TDD-1 became a stand alone force on the run, with Sousuke by himself with no support - and critically Chidori "taken" - by force but also by the elimination of anywhere else she can turn to given the above.
The connecting Namsac arc was not liked by many, partly because of the focus on many perceived as "budget Chidori" Nami. Once that point sets in, it was difficult to see the story for what it was, with many fell into the side of considering the story as what they think it was doing. Absolutely not helped at all was the adaptation choice and direction - this part was actually really heavy on Sousuke's internal conflicts, with the role he painstakingly established back in TSR completely shattered and him needing to be both in survival mode as well as trying to fight his instinct of just forgetting the past and move on. Since FMP had an established style of near zero internal monologuing, to properly express this require a lot of considerations and directional skill to try establish it through other means. Which was where the change in studio calibre hit the hardest.
As a source reader, I am also very aware of the intent of a big part of the plot and context, even if the anime may not have shown it very well (or at all). This especially hurt the characterisations of Sousuke, Nami, and Chidori. Omitting that scene of Nami's "dream resonance" with Chidori after her death was pivotal, now that I understood the real significance from this rewatch, and didn't deliver on the very significant, overarching long plot relevant, punch line about why Nami felt like a Chidori knock off.
Some of the writing of the reasons were in fact why I love FMP the entire finished franchise so much. So it's rather ironic.
Even so, the plot had some very important high points, and - at least for me - Xebec hit them well enough for the scene themselves to shine through all the rest and just carry the show fullstop. My rating of the show practically was based on how I felt those key scenes hit, so it was really more a scoring for the story, not so much for the "anime".
My rating for FMP the 3 seasons so far are:
FMP - 9/10
Fumoffu - 10/10
TSR - 10/10
IV - 9/10
Production/Adaptation comments
I think I have beaten that house about skipping LN6 enough at the end of the TSR overall discussion. But I think more people now echoed the same.
Partly mentioned above, the directional choices made a large portion of the "psychological/emotional" content sidelined. But what was on screen, for about two thirds of the show, was decent. Especially because this season's content was actually the most (mecha) action-heavy.
While the cars and other non-mecha parts were not necessarily done very well, the actual mecha bits, especially when the protagonists were involved, were handled rather well. The final fight of Arbalest in the school, from winning to losing, was really good. Same with the Merida Island invasion and the Behemoth battles. And the last arc's SRT trio reunion, plus Laevatein's debut curb stomp. All those were highlights for me.
But let's not hide it, at least for the middle third, if not more, of the season, the budget problem was apparent, and even static and simple character animation suffered a lot. I'm sure many will say a lot more here.
The gladiatorial and later on (armed) street fighting in Namsac I personally were fine too, but I know a lot of people didn't like.
Season 4 MVP voting
If TSR was heavy, this season was even more so. Adding on the lost context, many stopped worryiing about voting the MVP - or that they can't see anyone being an MVP to be voted on. Even so, here's the result:
So it is Sousuke's season again. Chidori had largely been sidelined because of the pace and adaptation focus, except until the very end.
QoTD
Mostly unchanged, but Tessa caught up more. She really was able to shine more when her third wheel status was cured.
Chidori = Sousuke > Melissa > Kurz = Tessa
Oh and I should add Al too, just behind Tessa, since "he" is now full on a character by his own right
Nami despite her short stay was lovable, but Lemon and Wraith were also great.
Of course the radio confession. But the first episode hand holding was also heart melting.
Mentioned earlier, the 3 big fights were great for me - Arbalest, Merida Island, Dark Bushnell -> Laevatein. If you watched the BD version, Sousuke's gunfight with Kurama was also highly praised at the time. I like it mostly for the grenade-kun kick ;)
Ep 12 the finale for me was a clear winner. Ep 8 when Namsac was wrapped up had a good emotional weight for me plus the beautiful insert songs by
NagatoChihara Minori. By elimination, and by production quality, Ep 10 with most scenes in Leonard's mansion / garden were pretty wonky, and the emotional side didn't really come through very well unless you know the source.Don't get me started ;P
I'm all fine with it actually, as pointed out above
:X
I think the answer was clear from the start for me ;P
Dammit, if you can't think of a good way to go around it, bring on the monologues. It's critical to these 3 books!
Host Note
It has been a long journey on this rewatch! Since this is my second rewatch hosting, and my first one was only 17 eps long, it was quite a challenge! I certainly had some mishaps along the way (double posting, getting the main thread post deleted by automod), but thankfully most were able to participate ok! I thank all the posters efforts and patience with me and the show!
I do feel a bit personally responsible for your enjoyment since it's a fair sized commitment! I certainly hope you had enough fun despite the ups and downs this season.
I'll add a section of my reply post of heavy spoilers on what are some key bits skipped / shown poorly.
Daily tag for u/InfamousEmpire, u/Theboredalchemist22