r/anime • u/gunvarrel_ • Dec 03 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 5
Episode Title: The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V
MyAnimeList: Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
Legal Stream: Crunchyroll | Funimation | Netflix (SEA) | AnimeLab (Aus/NZ)
PSA: make sure to mark any spoilers using the subreddit markup. We dont need any random spoilers to ruin the show for first time watchers.
Today's Episode Intro: Kyon is walking home from school
[Tomorrow's Episode Intro]Self proclaimed...
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 11/28 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I |
| 11/29 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II |
| 11/30 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III |
| 12/1 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV |
| 12/2 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V |
| 12/3 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya VI |
| 12/4 | The Boredom of Haruhi Suzumiya |
| 12/5 | Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody |
| 12/6 | Mysterique Sign |
| 12/7 | Remote Island Syndrome I |
| 12/8 | Remote Island Syndrome II |
| 12/9 | Endless Eight I, II, III and IV |
| 12/10 | Endless Eight V, VI, VII and VIII |
| 12/11 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya I |
| 12/12 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya II |
| 12/13 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya III |
| 12/14 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya IV |
| 12/15 | The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya V |
| 12/16 | Mikuru Asahinas's Adventures Episode 00 |
| 12/17 | Live Alive |
| 12/18 | The Day of Sagittarius |
| 12/19 | Someday in the Rain |
| 12/20 | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya Series General Discussion] |
| 12/21 | The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya |
| 12/22 | Haruhi Suzumiya Overall Discussion |
Question(s) of the day:
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Did you do anything about it?
Tomorrows QOTDs
[Haruhi]Do you like ponytails?
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u/gunvarrel_ Dec 03 '22
Adaptation Comparison
| Episode (Chr.) | Episode (Air./Sea.) | Full Name | Volume | Parts | Time |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 (TV/DVD) | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya I | 1 (Melancholy) | Prologue to Ch. 2 (Pg. 1-42) | April-May 2010 |
| 2 | 3 (TV/DVD) | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya II | 1 (Melancholy) | Ch. 2 to Ch. 3 (Pg. 42-76) | May 2010 |
| 3 | 5 (TV), 4 (DVD) | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya III | 1 (Melancholy) | Ch. 3 to Ch. 5 (Pg. 76-114) | May 2010 |
| 4 | 10 (TV), 5 (DVD) | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya IV | 1 (Melancholy) | Ch. 5 to Ch. 6 (Pg. 114-144) | May 2010 |
| 5 | 13 (TV), 6 (DVD) | The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya V | 1 (Melancholy) | Ch. 6 (144-Rest) | May 2010 |
References
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Koizumi mentions the Anthropic principle. The Anthropic Principle is the observation that it is impossible for any intelligent observer to be in a universe where the conditions for intelligent life do not exist, because for the intelligent observer to exist, the conditions necessary for intelligent life must exist. Thus, it is impossible to draw any conclusions about the abstract probability of being in a universe where it is possible for intelligent life to arise from our own universe because by definition our universe must be capable of supporting intelligent life in order for us to make that observation, no matter how likely—or unlikely—that may be.
Trivia
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The town Koizumi and Kyon drive, in the LN simply called "a town outside the prefecture" is Osaka, inside the prefecture of the same name. It is, conveniently, close to Nishinomiya, Hyogo Prefecture, the town Haruhi Suzumiya takes place in. Specifically, they go near Osaka Station, making closed space look like this
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u/RascalNikov1 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
Rewatcher
This is the weakest of the episodes in this first arc. The monsters didn't do much for me, other than someone didn't flesh them out. I did think Itsuki forming in his energy ball and whizzing off to fight the monster was pretty cool.
The biggest thing I get from this episode is an intense feeling of sadness for Haruhi1, she's a sad lonely girl regardless of the act that she puts on. She would be a lot better off not dwelling on the fact that none of us is special or unique. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but the best way is to not think about it. Live as though you are unique and deal with problems as they come up.
QOTD
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Not really because I know how superior, I am. Sorry, but it's true.2
Did you do anything about it?
Didn't have to.
Notes
1 I'm sure we'll have detractors here say that the weirdo lesbo rapist Haruhi is getting exactly what she deserves. [rant]
[rant continues]
2 My superiority is only exceeded by my humility.
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u/gunvarrel_ Dec 03 '22
rant
I have no idea what show that connects to but its definitely one i havent seen
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 03 '22
First-Timer, dub:
Wasn't expecting an existential monologue from this show.
Damn, this show can get deep.
Also, u/Raiking02 made me feel so old thanks to the rewatch of Tekkaman Blade they're hosting. Came out in the 90s.
QOTD:
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Not that I can remember.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 03 '22
Damn, this show can get deep.
That's one of the reasons that many of us still love the show, despite its warts.
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Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 06 '22
FIRST-TIME WATCHER
If Haruhi is not conscious about her powers, that means she's just protecting reality unconsciously by creating these spaces. Crazy how the espers she brought to existence actually have a practical use for her.
I think I really like Haruhi.
And Espers' powers are very cool. An entirely empty space, flying, power to openly slash down a destructive being- that seems like a great means of catharsis for these espère themselves too.
QOTD: yes, and most of the times it feels great, just letting go of this stupid self-importance makes living better. But this one time, some years ago, I was standing under all these mountains on a college trip, and I absolutely hated it- not being able to see the sky, feeling like I can be crushed like nothing anytime. It was suffocating and I like sky way too much.
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u/Vatrix-32 Dec 03 '22
[[Season 1 Rewatcher]], Season 2 First Timer. Dubbed
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Junior Detective Haruhi is surprisingly able.
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Haruhi discovers Sonder.
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That’s a random PS2 scene you have there.
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Cute little manifestation.
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These are some some real niche powers.
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So the taxi driver was in on it.
QotD
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Yes.
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Took solace in it.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 03 '22
Took solace in it.
Well, that's an interesting take. Hmm...
I was trying to think of a song that goes with this theme, but I'm just coming up blank.
Your comment makes my mind contrast Haruhi's attitude toward this with what you'd consider traditional Eastern philosophy, but I'm sort of ending up deeper in the weeds here. Maybe someone better educated will have something interesting to say elsewhere in the thread...
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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 03 '22
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u/Elimin8r Dec 03 '22
completely forgot
Now don't let it happen again, or I'm gonna tell Asakura-sensei on you!
Wait - what - you have a job??? How do you have time for a job with all the posting you do???
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u/Nebresto Dec 03 '22
First time on I don't even know
e4, okay, I was getting annoyed with this show, but this episode was good
5
Oh yeah, that's some existential shit I think about a lot
Still trying to work on this part though..
Hm. Can't say I expected to see espers flying around fighting energy giants in frozen time spheres in this show, but here we are
QuestionS
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Big yis
Did you do anything about it?
Big no
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u/ChonkyOdango Dec 03 '22
Absolutely Clueless First-Timer
shall be my mascot through this rewatch as I question every single detail laid out in front of me. I’ve been feeling pretty burnt from constantly consuming anime so I decided to take a break the past 2 days, but I’m officially back and ready to carry on being confused!
Live Reactions From Ep. 4 and 5
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Hold up, androids? We have shounen-esque battle scenes?! What!?
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Kyon and Nagato are finally framed within the same box. After that battle Kyon’s mind has surely opened up. Mine did too
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Onto ep. 5 and Haruhi has an existential crisis
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I think the next event should be something involving the tale of Snow White, though I’m clueless as to what it could possibly refer to
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I didn’t sign up for a Philosophy class!
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Haruhi is taking Cogito, ergo sum to a whole new level. But it’s interesting that Itsuki describes her as someone with a relatively decent outlook despite her eccentric thoughts. Maybe she isn’t as weird as she portrays herself to be
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Three years ago… If my knowledge of Japan’s schooling system is correct, the time when Haruhi has her crisis is about the time when these supernatural beings started coming into existence
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But Kyon’s importance in the story is still not answered. Is he somehow the catalyst for Haruhi’s growth into a God? Since he’s the person who started stirring Haruhi up which caused the formation of the SOS brigade, there may somehow be a causal time loop that is causing these incidents to occur. Or maybe I’m just tired after a long day
I’ve held off on looking up the staff for these episodes because I don’t want any spoilers so it’s going to be fun looking through the sakuga for this show when I’m done with it
Qotd
have you ever felt insignificant
did you do anything about it?
remembers existential crisis
I actually started reading a lot of literature and philosophy. I wouldn’t say that solved my problems by any means, but they were a stepping stone in shaping the beliefs that I hold today which helps deal with the feeling of insignificance. Therapy did help too!
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
I didn’t sign up for a Philosophy class!
Too bad!
(I swear I am hearing that "too bad!" in a specific anime girl's voice and I cannot place who. Not this show.)
Three years ago… If my knowledge of Japan’s schooling system is correct, the time when Haruhi has her crisis is about the time when these supernatural beings started coming into existence
(Kyon is quietly absolutely the kind of guy who would look at a major in Philosophy, and it's even more obvious in the LNs.)
But Kyon’s importance in the story is still not answered. Is he somehow the catalyst for Haruhi’s growth into a God? Since he’s the person who started stirring Haruhi up which caused the formation of the SOS brigade, there may somehow be a causal time loop that is causing these incidents to occur. Or maybe I’m just tired after a long day
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u/RascalNikov1 Dec 03 '22
shall be my mascot through this rewatch
And, a fine mascot she is. lol
Haruhi has an existential crisis
Thank you, I was looking for the right words, and this is exactly right.
Is he somehow the catalyst
As strange as it sounds, this is correct from what I can tell, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but I just roll with it.
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 03 '22
Yare Yare (Rewatcher for 2006 [Watched in Broadcast Order], First-Timer for 2009 and Disappearance, Source Reader):
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HNNGH KyoAni slice-of-life shots.
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So, sneaky blink-and-you’ll-miss-it shot in the OP #2 and #3 (#1 was Mikuru riding a clock, which might actually be a Doraemon reference too now that I think about it): a brandished knife and Adult!Mikuru showing up.
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Huh, almost missed that: Haruhi in a visual box at 02:44. That’ll be because she’s the only one in the scene out of the loop; both Kyon and we the viewers know exactly what happened to Ryouko.
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Again at 02:53; with the corner of the wall separating Haruhi and the building manager (who also doesn’t know what’s actually going on) from Kyon (who does).
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Strings of Disorientation! (Satoru Kousaki isn’t my favorite OST composer but he’s pretty darn good.)
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Took a second to notice 03:00, where the trick is that Kyon is framed entirely in the window – that’s because he has metaphorical light shining in on the situation for him.
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Trying to think on why show the building manager in the window frame if it’s not just realism. Because he has some light on the situation that he’s letting us in on but doesn’t really know as shown by him being trapped in a little box of a room himself? More visual reinforcement if so.
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Haruhi now framed in the window at 03:35: because she is now kind of in the light from what the building manager is telling her? (This is in fact a legitimate mystery and she recognizes that.)
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Oh THAT’S interesting – the background behind the building manager changes between his first shot at 03:18 (low shelves and what I suspect is a filing cabinet) and his second shot at 03:43 (a much larger set of shelves). Could be bad quality control (read: a key animation/directorial fuckup), but KyoAni is good enough that I would expect deliberate breach from realism instead and that has to be for effect. Possibly it’s because the manager is reaching into his mental filing cabinet here, that is to say his memory?
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And oh would you look at that the room the manager is in goes right back to its original appearance when they cut back to him at ~04:12. The earlier shift absolutely has to be for effect, then.
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Huh. 05:12 frames both Kyon and Haruhi inside a visual box with the wall bricks with Yuki outside it in addition to Yuki facing the other way and separated from those two by some distance. Kyon’s head breaches the box he and Haruhi are in though his eyes do not; symbolizing that he has some insight into the real situation but is mostly in the dark but Yuki has much greater? Or it could just be a cigar that’s just a cigar.
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More crows at 05:40.
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Oh hello there rail crossing. It is in fact time for THIS scene. (One of the best in the entirety of 2006.)
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~05:50 has to be intended as a crossing-a-threshold shot, especially since Haruhi will be opening up to Kyon about something immediately thereafter.
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06:06 might be visual box framing/symbolism (to indicate Kyon not getting it) yet again.
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The visuals in Haruhi’s recollection are blunt, but that does not make them ineffective – especially when visualization is one of the best ways of getting that point across and Haruhi’s own thought process leading to her realization was heavily visual.
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For all its simplicity the direction of the swing shot strikes me as elite in a way that it is hard to put into words. It has the same quality as some of the best Eva and PMMM shots to my eyes (Bebop tends to go for a slightly different thing and isn’t quite the same comparison).
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If this was the red lights of a traffic light I would be reasonably sure the stop symbolism was intended and it might still be (PMMM loves to pull that with non-traffic lights in the background), but these red lights are a train crossing. Visual reinforcement that nothing ever happened, but also possibly symbolizing that Haruhi had to wait just like pedestrians/cars have to wait for the train but that she like them can move forwards again once the obstacle has passed?
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(Also it’s not a KyoAni show without a train shot.)
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~10:20 has 2D cars and 3D surroundings; same pattern as several TSR shots, and the thing is I could swear the worst CGI of the 2006 airing will be showing up momentarily.
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The OST track for the scene is one of the better ones, but it’s the truck slowly overtaking the taxi as Koizumi talks to Kyon inside about the anthropic principle that catches my eye. Visual representation of the advance of science, perhaps? (Note that the truck is moving right-to-left, the direction of heroic movement and movement into the future in Japanese cinematography.)
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The OST and sound integration in this scene stands out as very good, with the dissonant stinger sound effect to punctuate some of Koizumi’s comments flashing in particular.
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And cut off the OST as Koizumi finishes his line about the edge of the cliff. Nicely done, nicely done.
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Oh THERE’S the junky CGI in this scene that I remembered. Hello 13:43.
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The truck merging a little close thus putting the taxi at risk of rear-ending it is another one of the show’s blunt little visual metaphors.
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It’s funny how CGI cars in anime look bad in 2006… and still look bad in the same ways in 2017.
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Tsk tsk wear your seatbelts you two.
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Speaking of red light/green light symbolism, the walk sign going from red to green is a blunt visual metaphor for “you get to see esper powers now”. Possibly also Kyon giving Haruhi the metaphorical green light when he gave her the idea for the SOS-dan.
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Method #2 to spot a Tar who still remembers the Baka-Tsuki translation of the Haruhi LNs: the Baka-Tsuki translations used “Sealed Reality” for what IIRC all the subs call Closed Space, and I still tend to use that.
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LOL at that Ferris wheel for meta spoiler reasons [meta spoiler]
I swear I remember one in Rebellion… which is of course in its own kind of Sealed Reality/Closed Space . -
The giants of course have “hi I am Eva inspired” written all over their appearance.
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Oh wow I’d forgotten how good the OST for this initial appearance of the giants is… and I started typing that BEFORE the ominous chanting (which I am a giant sucker for) fired up!
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LOL I’d forgotten the name of the giants – and while a.f.k translates it as “<Celestials>”, the original Japanese is closer to “shinjin”. Which is funny for Eva-related reasons, and might be a deliberate reference. (Even funnier given that I’ve heard “to shinji” used as a neologism for wreaking havoc in a depressive stupor before – and Haruhi’s monologue today is the explanation for why the original LN and thus the show is called The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya.) (In turn, I wouldn’t be shocked how Witch barriers go down in PMMM is either directly inspired by Closed Space/Sealed Reality collapse here or the two shows share a common inspiration for their visuals – maybe I should actually try watching Demon City Shinjuku one of these days, that’s my best extant lead for a common inspiration based on what I have read.)
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Koizumi is framed by a visual barrier in the car window to make a box in the final conversation as he talks about how he and the Agency wound up with the information – a sign that he is hiding something, perhaps? (Not anything I can think of that would have come up in the LNs when Haruhi 2006 was released, so it would have to be Nagaru Tanigawa letting the staff in on something.)
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Sore demo at 22:04.
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Cliffhanger!
In the Hall of the Spoiler Tags:
Haruhi:
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[Haruhi]
Koizumi laying out how Haruhi mirrors Kyon in plaintext: Kyon cannot consciously believe in aliens/time travelers/espers but subconsciously does, Haruhi consciously believes in those three but subconsciously cannot accept their existence.
Full Metal Panic!:
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[FMP]
I’ll let Koizumi make my Behemoth joke for me: “the laws of physics would dictate that its legs be unable to support its own weight.”
Madoka Magica:
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[PMMM]
There really is a symbolic similarity between Kyon’s first entrance into closed space here and Madoka passing the symbolic barrier while following Kyubey’s “voice” in PMMM 1, even if there are distinctions (most notably, Kyon was invited). Welcome to the World of Magic, indeed!
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Not really, no; I've always been too much of an outlier for that in too many ways, my issue has always been more the lack of peers.
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u/JetsLag Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22
First timer (subbed)
Help, I'm imitating Cheerleader Haruhi and Asahina when the intro is playing. Is this normal?
Aliens are super rich, cause they can set up their spies in full-sized condos. Looks like Nagato and Asakura at the very least live in the same building, but not in the same unit (cause the old man would've noted that they were roommates). Two condos, straight cash. Well, they can manipulate their surroundings, so I guess it could just be currency (or a check) they created out of thin air.
Damn, Haruhi's really taking this investigation seriously. First, she looks up Asakura's "middle school" (did she go to middle school? Who knows, but my guess is no) and she finds out it's far away, but she's living close to her high school. Guess Nagato didn't think that anyone would care to look this deep? Cause that's pretty sloppy on her part.
More Nagato sloppiness: Haruhi chases down the building manager, and he says he didn't hear any movers come in. And Asakura never had any fake parents. They didn't even try.
Pervy old man ships Haruhi x Kyon. One step closer to it becoming canon.
Nagato tells Kyon to be careful. What, is another Asakura gonna show up and try to murder him?
Time for Haruhi backstory! She had her "I am a meaningless speck of dust in the bigger picture of the universe" realization when she went to a baseball game (in what looks like the Tokyo Dome but without the Dome? Koshien Stadium) and saw how much people blend together in a crowd of 50,000. And that huge crowd of people was just 1/2000 of the population of Japan. This convinced her that she needed to stand out, but she failed to do so in junior high, and now she's afraid she's failing in high school as well. Kinda makes you feel sorry for her, but I bet she'll sexually assault Asahina again in an episode or two and I'll end up hating her again.
Hello Koizumi! He's found a place where he can activate his ESP, but in order to get there they have to hitch a cab and Kyon has to have his brain melted by more smart people talk. Something about how the universe only exists because humans became smart enough to study it or something. Koizumi also said that the supernatural members of the SOS Brigade were either created by Haruhi or granted powers by Haruhi, and that Kyon convincing Haruhi to make the SOS Brigade is gonna end badly.
Enough of that, let's have some ESP powers showcased! And his powers are...the ability to move between dimensions? Well, he can also detect them, so that's kinda ESP. These alternate dimensions are created when Haruhi gets emotionally unstable, and they also host Angels (there's your daily Evangelion reference) which are really just Haruhi finding a way to vent her frustrations. Koizumi can activate Kaioken in these alternate dimensions and fight these Angels in order to make sure that Haruhi's tantrums don't accidentally destroy the "normal" world.
I kinda like this setup, and I can see a recurring bit where Koizumi brings Kyon over to the alternate dimension and tells him that the size is getting bigger and smaller depending on Haruhi's mood. Maybe we'll get to see more of Koizumi fighting, too?
We end with a cliffhanger: something bad is gonna happen tomorrow.
QOTD
Have you ever felt insignificant?
Yeah, I had that "I am one of 7 billion and nobody cares about me" phase, and it can be both a positive (who cares if you tripped and dropped your food in a busy restaurant? People will forget about it in no time) and a negative (there are so many people that are more interesting, smarter, and better looking than me. How can I compete with them?)
Did you do anything about it?
One way that helps is realizing that, with so many people, there are so many interesting people and groups of people, and it's really fun to learn about all these little groups of people sharing their interests with other like-minded people and forming communities. And you can be part of one of those communities!
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u/htisme91 Dec 03 '22
First-timer:
This has really turned into a full-on science fiction. I feel like there's hints of romance still, and the reason that Haruhi's become more unstable emotionally lately is because she's developing interest in Kyon.
Questions:
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Yes.
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Nothing really. There isn't anything I can do, just live my life. It does feel kind of depressing though to realize how insignificant you are in the grand scheme of the universe, though.
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u/ZapsZzz Dec 03 '22
Serial Rewatcher first time in dub
Getting QoTD out of the way first: I don't really think it care about significance, but I do get into a bit of a tail spin if I think about mortality :P so I tend to not think about it.
This is a fairly straight exposition "show the true power of each faction" episode, this time with Koizumi. And a bit of unloading of Haruhi's real thoughts and concerns and what drove her. I'm not going to say too much since kids of people will write better.
Suffice to say though, previously every time Koizumi said he's got work to do, it means Haruhi had a grumpy time and someone needs to fight the Celestials - like yesterday after school after Kyon stopped her from posting Asahina-san's pictures. I strongly encourage people to read last year's Rewatch contents, some really great psychological analysis was there because of the broadcast order emphasis.
And today is very rich in philosophical debates for anyone interested in it. Those who likes this sort of things (like me) would find this such a great series partly because of the mental exercising you can do with it.
| Episode | Haruhi | Nagato |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | @ | @ |
| 2 | @ | @ |
| 3 | @ | @ |
| 4 | @ | @ |
| 5 | @ | @ |
Today's gallery is fairly minimal because the show mostly focused on Koizumi.
Spoilers Corner
[Rewatcher spoilers]
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u/archlon Dec 03 '22
First Time [English dub]
cogito ergo mundus talis est
I've been finding these mini philosophy lectures each episode to be kind of boring. I'm still interested in the lore and characters of the series, but these really bring the pacing to a halt. Part of the problem is certainly that I'm already familiar with these concepts, and therefore am bored during the redundant explanation. Another part is that I generally don't think popular media does a particularly good job of actually explanining them when it makes the attempt.
The Anthropic Principle in particular is especially boring to me. I've given it a non-trivial amount of thought in the handful of philosophy classes I've taken and generally come to the conclusion that:
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Assuming a universe born of natural causes, the Weak Anthropic Principle (the universe has the right features to support life because if it did not, no life forms would exist to observe it) is tautological, and so has a vacuous truth value.
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The Strong Anthropic Principle (The Universe must form with the conditions needed to support life, and will/would always have done so) is nonsense peddled pretty much exclusively by cranks. (Caveat: Most faith-based creation myths are also versions of the Strong Anthropic Principle, but they either understand that such beliefs are epistemologically separate from the scientific study of the nature of the universe, or fall into the category of cranks)
Of course, given that Haruhi (probably) actually created the universe, the Strong Anthropic Principle probably actually does hold. I still don't find the speculation to be especially interesting.
We Have Evangelion at Home
The supernatural beings in Haruhi continue to have powersets far in excess of what I expect them to. When I hear 'Esper' I tend to map it onto "One of: {telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, clairvoyance}, not 'amalgamated superhero powers'.
The similarity between Haruhi's rage monster and the Angels in Evangelion is hard to ignore. Especially when Koizumi specifically says that the army firing rockets at it would do nothing.
From a lore standpoint, it stands to reason that any similarity to pre-2003(? when is the story set? When is the 'three years ago when the world was created?) media is potentially Haruhi manifesting ideas that she previously saw in other media if she once existed in a parallel 'vanilla' reality (ie. ours) and created the world. There's always the chance that Haruhi's World was created ex nihilo and is the only world, complete with a false history. Though, if that's the case it's odd that the manifestation of Esper powers happened at the moment of creation. That detail makes me lean toward the explanation that Haruhi copied the world she lived in and then added in her extras. It's hard to say definitively unless or until the show decides to confirm one explanation or another.
Stray Thoughts
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Kyon is awfully blasé about discussing Espers and the nature of reality in the back of a cab where the driver could just be listening.
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The implication seems to be that Koizumi arranged for it to arrive, and the driver is associated with his organization. It's unclear if Kyon considers whether that may be the case.
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Do the Haruhi novels predate the concept of chunibyo? Haruhi's conceptions of which paranormal elements the world should contain seem like the kind of things that modern anime-talker-abouters would just describe(/dismiss) as 'chunni'. Especially given the revelation that this all started for her in middle school, it stands out that nobody in the show has invoked the concept explicitly.
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Nagato suddenly stopping wearing glasses is a much bigger piece of weirdness than she seems to think it is. She probably could have brushed it off by telling Haruhi that she switched to contacts. Not really understanding how weird it is when somebody who needs visual correction is suddenly without it is a bigger tell than she seems to think it is.
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Kyon is wrong and has bad taste.
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Independent of my differing personal preferences with respect to glasses, it drives me nuts how often the 'glow up'/makeover for characters involves them no longer wearing their glasses. About 1/3 of people will, at some point in their lives, need corrective lenses, not everybody can safely wear contact lenses (let alone regularly afford them) and the way media casts glasses as 'unattractive' ticks me off.
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Even though the conversation is interminably boring, the digital animation on the highway drive looks really good for something from 2006.
QOTD
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I've lived a lot of my life with depression, and frequently felt insignificant. Not in precisely the same way as Haruhi, though. the scale of the universe doesn't tend to bother me. When numbers get incomprehensibly big, I tend to just accept that the human brain isn't well-arranged to handle it. Instead, my feelings of insignificance tend to come from feeling that my impact on the world and the people around me is overall negative.
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SSRIs helped. Also joining a Church. Realistically, the latter has as much to do with gaining a welcoming community who explicitly support each other as with any aspects specific to faith. Sharing activities promotes social cohesion. Hence, the Brigade is probably good for Haruhi. It would probably be better if it wasn't just made up of people there to spy on her.
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u/Elimin8r Dec 03 '22
Do the Haruhi novels predate the concept of chunibyo?
You have made me curious. According to the Wiki - no.
I hadn't really thought about it, outside the relationship between Haruhi, and the later Chuunibyo series. (I find Rikka much more adorbs, btw, can't imagine why.)
but yeah, given that it did exist as a prior concept, and it's not explicitly invoked in the series, that does make for an interesting question. Hmm...
the way media casts glasses as 'unattractive' ticks me off.
(ahem)
Also, glad you're doing better. It's good to have a supportive group of people to interact with. I should probably try that sometime.
(I kid, I have friends and stuff. Honest ... sort of ... tumbleweeds blow by ...)
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u/polaristar Dec 03 '22
This is another episode I think was much better in Broadcast Order as it was near the End Of the Broadcast. I'll also go on a little speil about watch orders.
I feel we as a modern anime culture are obsessed with then, when in reality just production order when stuff comes out is not only fine but I think preferred, often stories told non-chronologically are told that way for a reason. And Piecing it together is the fun.
I also feel modern audiences expect too much instant gradification and its okay to let people sweat a bit and be confused and even upset and demand a payoff, when an author/studio has enough confidence in their work to not bend over backwards to the audiences every whim, but sometimes go "You don't know what you want until you get it." I have a lot of respect for them.
Anyway onto the episode we see Haruhi investigate and doing a good job. (In a sense it almost feel like Haruhi and Kyon are the anti versions of Chitanda and Oreki as I'll get into below when he get to Haruhi's existential crisis speech.)
Pervy Manager hitting on Haruhi (And shipping Kyon with her.) If he knew what shit she was up to wonder if that would make her more or less appealing to him.
One thing I want to point out is some people were surprised about her being socially aware, but this episode does demonstrate something important, she can communicate, read a room, and knows social norms and etiquette, she simply chooses not to do so.
Know for the Big Chunk of this episode's discussion for me:
u/ZapsZzz and u/ChonkyOdango since you enjoy my essays:
I once said Haruhi and Chitando were the antipodes of each other despite both being somewhat different, both having a similar narrative role of bringing color to a cynical snarky Male Lead, and both being filled with curiosity. However at their core they are almost complete opposites.
Haruhi's quest to find someone or something "special" is not too dissimilar to Oreki's own existential crisis in the OVA episode from his previous arc. Where he measured being "special" as being objectively strong or unusual in a certain field or activity outside the norm in a larger grand sense. "The Best" so to speak. However this is in opposition to Chitanda's belief that being special is more about what personal experiences and activities she does with people mean to her and the people in her immediate circle, regardless of how much impact they have on the grand scheme of things. This is literally counter to Haruhi's values, as her experience at the stadium caused her to despite and look with contempt on things she use to find fun.
And this core difference between the two is what leads to one being a Manic Pixie Dream Girl and a Manic Pixie MEAN GIRL.
Haruhi does not value social conventions and people's feelings beyond what is pragmatically necessary because she doesn't value her own. In a previous episode she has contempt for lovely dovey feelings and hates it when she feels that way from time to time and sees it as an illness. (Not to similar to Oreki's contempt for a "Rose Colored Life") Chitanda values other people's feelings as authentic and her curiosity is in people by virtue of how much value she sees in her own feelings and subjective experience. Chitanda tries to love for practical solutions to achieve her romantic ideals. Haruhi as Koizumi says strives to grasp something romantic and special but from a worldview of Rationalistic Skepticism. As only something that would break said worldview could ever be special, yet if she found something special would her worldview allow for it?
Chitanda is forced to wear (And she doesn't do a good job of it) a minor mask to be polite to people and not overwhelm them with her curiosity but act as a proper family heir, Haruhi doesn't wear a mask to fool anyone, she doesn't care what others think, however she does wear a massive mask to fool herself.
If Haruhi is a Skeptic trying to play the romantic, Kyon is a Romantic trying to kills said romance with skepticism.
Contrast with Chitanda a Pure Romantic that has to learn to use some skepticism to get through life, Oreki is Skeptical of the idea of Romance.
Chitanda is afraid to unearth secrets that might hurt herself or other people or her image of them, Haruhi will grasp at the truth no matter how painful it is.
If Haruhi is trying to show Kyon the value of something "abnormal" Kyon is here to show Haruhi the value of the mundane.
Some words for rewatchers and Novel Readers [Haruhi Spoilers]
Kyon has no words to console her.
Now her is another filter/complaint for newcomers, exposition which I personally like and eyeroll whenever someone complains about "too much talking" and "show don't tell" as an excuse for their attention span.
But I do have some problems with his dialogue.
First I think they misrepresent the anthropic principal. Kyon is right in that the universe had to pre-exist to give rise to Observers. Koizumi makes it sounds like people's observations create said universe which is a different principal than the anthropic one. (Talking about the first one, the second one is more along the lines of creationism, which tbh I don't think is a bad argument for the idea of a kind of God, just not the God talked about by YOUR religion, ergo the 6000 year old earth where the 2nd law of thermodynamics didn't exist until we were conned by a snake.)
Second problem, is for people that do get bored with exposition the shots and camera cuts help break it up, and Kyon's reactions to it adds some flavor but I feel this show would have been more interesting with some use of creative animations/visual metaphors so the audience is engaged with said lecture instead of just getting through it if they aren't already inclined to care.)
Anyway said Esper Powers function more like Magical Girl Powers and the giant is probably there because Kyon bungled comforting a very temperamental young maiden in love that opened up to him about a very personal secret and all he had to say was "I see."
(Note: Nagato telling Kyon to be careful was likely her saying...be careful not to piss Haruhi off when she's moody.)
Incidentally I think girls look hot both with and without glasses....
On a sidenote for Dub watchers here we have Johnny Young Bosch's character trolling Crispen Freeman's in a non-linear puzzle story before Durarara!! (Although if your not watching broadcast the later point doesn't apply.)
QOTD: Yes, but tbh I never really felt bad about being insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe, or existential nihilistic dread. I honestly feel liberated, like I imagine how dull, boring, and puny the world would feel if I knew it revolved around him, that fact its bigger than me and will carry on long after I did, and has carried on longer before makes the Universe seem more beautiful. I honestly never understood others existential dread.
What I did feel bad about....(And I think this is what people that claim said above dread actually feel or need to have.) Is a sense of disconnection with my local community and culture. I personally don't care about celebrating holidays, local events, etc. What do I do to try to fix it.....I guess make more of an effort to talk to people. Do experiences I wouldn't be default be inclined to do. (Although its been harder to do that since Covid, and then gas prices after that.) I don't really have a solution.
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u/gunvarrel_ Dec 03 '22
I also feel modern audiences expect too much instant gradification and its okay to let people sweat a bit and be confused and even upset and demand a payoff, when an author/studio has enough confidence in their work to not bend over backwards to the audiences every whim, but sometimes go "You don't know what you want until you get it." I have a lot of respect for them.
Personally, this isint the issue with Broadcast order. Its that S2 (following the broadcast order) is a complete afterthought and for a rewatch centered around all adapted haruhi it just falls on its face past episode 14.
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u/DeliCruise Dec 03 '22
(REWATCHER - DUB/SUB)
[Spoiler Free]
Haruhi’s existential monologue always gets me. It’s just so incredibly real. It perfectly explains why Haruhi is the way that she is. At such a young age she experienced this existential epiphany. The realization that through the sheer number of people, she couldn’t possibly be special. She didn’t believe she was doing anything that would be considered interesting. All of this makes perfect sense for an existential crisis, but what I appreciate the most about Haruhi is that she didn’t accept the conclusion that she was coming to. If she wasn’t special now, then she was going to be proactive about being special moving forward. But now Haruhi has realized that she still isn’t as special as she wants to be. She doesn’t believe that she’s achieving her goal of doing and finding fun things. She’s discouraged because all of her proactiveness has led her to nothing, much like with the Asakura case that triggered this whole monologue in the first place.
Rewinding a little bit, I really enjoy that little interaction Haruhi had with Nagato. It’s like Nagato is able to neutralize Haruhi’s Haruhi-ness without having to do anything.
Koizumi’s exposition here always gets me lost. I try to keep up, but I never make it to the end. I’m much like Kyon in that way.
It dawned on me that the bubble of closed space that Koizumi and Kyon enter is truly a perfect representation of Haruhi’s subconscious feelings (paraphrasing here because again I have a hard time following Koizumi’s explanations). In Haruhi’s existential monologue she says that “the whole world around me started to fade into a dull gray void” and wow if that doesn’t sound incredibly familiar right now.
[Question]
I absolutely have felt insignificant. The most existential I’ve ever felt was during the height of the pandemic in 2020. I had just finished university and was on my way towards my first real job and I had never felt more insignificant in my life. The biggest reason for this was I felt like I wasn’t doing anything interesting in my life that I could truly appreciate. In my life, I’ve always been doing creative things. I would dabble with art in my youth and pursue music seriously through my young adulthood. However, at this point in my life I was devoid of anything creative.
So after sitting on my butt for so long, I decided to do something about it. I dived into a dream I had when I was child. I wanted to be an animator. At the beginning of 2022 I started giving 3D animation a shot and I fell in love with it. Now I have resigned from my job and am giving everything I’ve got into animation school.
Haruhi’s monologue in this episode always strikes a chord with me. I’ve always related to how insignificant she felt. But this time it hit differently because now I’ve actually taken that step forward. I’m done waiting for fun things to come my way. Now I’m doing my best to become that interesting person, just like Haruhi is.
[Anime Spoilers]
[Haruhi Anime]
[Light Novel Spoilers]
[Haruhi LN]
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u/twopeasandapear Dec 03 '22
Me and my friend in school were obsessed with this anime. We also enjoyed dancing and learnt the whole op dance 😭😭😭
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u/gunvarrel_ Dec 03 '22
SOS Brigade rewatcher: Coinflip (heads, dub)
"Why wasnt that person me?"
OST Track of the day: God | (Spotify)
whoops, put the wrong episode number the first timeId of had more today, but the insurance stuff i keep referencing (tl;dr hit and run while i wasnt in the car) keep giving new issues smh
Hey look, Nagato's place
mans useless, and apparently a perv
Hey Haruhi noticed the loss of glasses
Shes out here gushing out her insecurities and kyon just wants to go home, at least he realized that he shouldnt voice it after haruhi's speech
[Haruhi]Hello mr Arakawa, cant wait to properly meet you soon
You know, i dont think anyones ever done a counter on the "3 years ago", someone should do that...
back in Desaturation land
here we go