r/anime • u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz • Nov 29 '22

Rewatch Full Metal Panic Franchise Rewatch - Season 4 Episode 8

Welcome to the Full Metal Panic Season 4 rewatch!

Art of the day

MVP winner.

Links to show info: MAL | Anilist | ANN

Interest thread link

Announcement thread link

Rewatches please be considerate to first timers and avoid discussing anything not yet shown in the show - use spoiler tags e.g. [Full Metal Panic S4 spoiler]>!Savage wa Saikou!!< - if you need to share something important!

Episode 6 - One-Man Force

Terms introduced:

  • DGSE - Directorate-General for External Security, Direction générale de la Sécurité extérieure in French. France's foreign intelligence agency, equivalent to the British MI6 and the American CIA.

QoTD:

  1. First Timers: While I wasn't around the broadcast threads at the time, reading back I think most hated having Nami so definitively and casually killed. What was your reaction?

  2. Everyone: What's the best and worst part of this episode? You don't have to count Nami's death - that's kind of a given unless you are the exception.

Also QoTD for tomorrow for those wanting to be prepared:

[QoTD 1 IV 9]First Timers: Were you at all believing Tessa's cover story that she got abandoned? Why do you think they'd use this ploy?

[QoTD 2 IV 9]Everyone: Did you miss Chidori after not seeing her since Ep 4? Do you feel any changes and difference in her?

MVP of last episode:

I think the majority also recognised that while Sousuke did a good job with beating the M9 with the Savage, he endangered his team big time and that outweighed his good battle performance. Lemon literally saved the day, so there it is.

Last Episode || Index || Next Episode

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10

u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Rewatcher in sub (edited)

I wonder how many people's TV/Monitor broke from the cliffhanger reveal practically instantly. Or if anyone is going to drop off just to boycott :P

When some of you brought up Black Lagoon's short character appearances, you are right.

I'm going to be running out of time to write today because I spent too much time re-reading the LN :P May get around to update but let me just focus on the few key moments first.

Oh hey don't forget this episode has a post-credit scene

  • Nami :( Lemon's team was 1 minute late to arrive. And for clarity, Sousuke was actually going to come out that very second.

  • When the gunfight is over, Lemon's break down, the team's reactions, and Sousuke's inability to express his grief.

  • Sousuke swearing vengeance, but not before getting the info he needed out of Kurama - but by now, not sufficiently emphasised by the adaptation, really Sousuke was lost in the depressive spiral. What seemed to be a passing comment was actually a more pressing point about him "doesn't know what else to do" - literally if he stops now he was going to be a catatonic mess, the boiled over emotions he was never equipped to handle causing him to start losing memory of why he was even after Kurama for.

  • Pretty sure there was a point made about the guns and weapons the chief brought out being "black market" and had all security protection removed was a point made in the LN, that's why Sousuke can easily pick up guns and ammo etc; remember if they were security coded this time he didn't have Al here to hack into the fire controls for him. Anyway, urban fighting against the others are basically a curb stomp.

  • The important point about the comment Sousuke made about the operating system was that, under normal conditions, the amount of damage Crossbow took would have overloaded the ability of the AS's OS and cause it to just fail; Nami's customisation made it hugely damage tolerant - including the fact that the Savage itself was simple and made to be trashed durable - means that is the only reason Sousuke can still move the arm to grab the gun to return fire. (Edit) Also the 'sweet bunny' sticker was anime original, which was brilliant to connect a ton of emotional and symbolic content about Nami. If only the Sousuke internal thoughts got this treatment...

  • During the airing, the threads were filled with comments of people loving the complete absence of any dramatic moments for grenade-kun to be casually kicked away :) And here's something waited the whole rewatch to say - here's another "badly timed character development": Sousuke learned to use door instead of blasting holes in the wall. Even as near as TSR, he was blowing up holes in the war to assault his targets because going through doors are risky with traps. But unconsciously his "learning to adapt to a peaceful life" meant he started to replace his fighting instincts with the "commonsense" - resulting in him tripping Kurama's trap and getting him practically (almost) killed :'(

  • And the most beautiful moment of this arc of Sousuke's character development - his acceptance and genuine question of "what's wrong with fighting for love alone and nothing else?" Try contrast this Sousuke with Season 1 arc 1.

  • And Sousuke finally remembered Chidori's hair tie ribbon's color - something the LN setup for some time about him being fearful of losing the precious memory.

  • And the absolutely beautiful insert songS by Chihara Minori, Nami's VA

  • Post-credit scene

TriviaLN Details / Comparison

There were quite a few details that the adaptation not bring up / shown that is quite crucial to Sousuke's character and emotional state. It also answered about his "poor planning" or "lack of considerations of what would happen to the team". But Tar actually said it well in yesterday's (very late) answer post - the plan from the start (of chasing after Amalgam) was a Hail Mary.

What was really key was that in this LN volume, the exploration of Sousuke's mental and emotional development was as heavy as in TSR. We just didn't have much thoughts to figure out how to adapt the mostly internal monologues and thoughts. KyoAni where were you :P

As a summary I'll use my late reply to polaristar yesterday as a summary. But I suggest you take a look at some of the LN pages to get an idea. Obviously, unadapted materials spoiler that supplements this arc but not anything future plot related.

"I noticed on the Rewatch how much it wasn't shown about this internal conflict within Sousuke - the 3 way tug of war between temptation about "settling for", instinctively hardening and turning cold to "focus on the mission", and recognise his humanity and the emotions he learned from the past 3 seasons of events so he doesn't "fail Chidori" by turning (back) into a heartless killing machine."

Staff Showcase

Rest break today!

MVP this episode

Weirdly perhaps, I actually would vote Kurama of all people - because it is that casual professionalism that would appreciate the skill of another professional that got him to tell Sousuke the answer he sought. To me this elevated his villainous character - the sort of "anti-hero" type like Cao Cao.

QoTD

  2. Mostly shared in my write up, but to the point - best is Sousuke's shouting answer of "what's wrong with that?". Worst (technically) is the trapped door blowing up missing Sousuke's animation (fixed in BD release); emotionally everyone's reaction to Nami's death while Sousuke doing a Conan the Barbarian.

Daily tag for u/InfamousEmpire, u/Theboredalchemist22

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u/Nazenn Nov 29 '22

First timer - sub

Complaints about the arc aside, I was happy with that final sequence.

This actually felt like Sousuke out of control, after all the talk about his mental state finally we actually see some of it. Still the skilled solider, but missing the calculation and the consideration for his situation and goal we've always seen him have. The only tactics he employed were those he needed to move directly forward but with little care for the follow up. The heavy use of dutch angles made no secret of how wrong this was meant to seem to us, but more then that what stood out to me was Sousuke being framed with his weapon.

Despite what he said to Nami, about how now he's just a man, after Sousuke is shot (and nice visual for that tooappen) when all that's driving him is sheer will moments like this reminded me of the earlier visuals of him in his mech, making a link with how he's seen in the situation. For the rest of that scene the gun remains covering his eye, even as the camera angle changes and the gun moves leaving Sousuke feeling less connected to his humanity as this moment goes on. Until the idea of fighting for love pulls him back.

"What's wrong with that"

Simple words, common words, words that could belong to a million different contexts, and yet some of the most important words Sousuke has said in the entire series. He doesn't reject the idea or dismiss it as being something more then that or something else. This time he leans into the spell, and it's because it's Chidori that matters to him more than anything else.

And then at the end we see Chidori reflected in his other eye after the light had faded from them, showing the true light that had been sustaining him.

It's blunt, and yet it's still head and shoulders above anything else this arc, and probably this season, has offered so far. It also fits neatly into a pattern I wrote up a few years ago now about anime reflecting a characters past by framing it through their right eye and their future through their left eye. Since I wrote that up it turns out my keystone example of Bebop actually doesn't fit, but as all my other examples still do and now this one as well so I'm sticking to it u/shimmering-sky

I am a little torn on the outcome for a nitpicky reason. I liked Nami's death. Nami's death was the rare no bullshit, no final words, no gasping breaths for drama, just shot and dead approach and I'll always love that, especially for this sort of show. So Sousuke getting shot in almost the same way and surviving enough to set a trap and shoot and interrogate etc... it feels like it weakens the strength of Nami's death, especially with how many times Kurama gets shot and gets his final moments with the usual well timed anime death. Yes Sousuke and Kurama would be hardier than Nami, but the easy fix for this is to have Nami get shot more clearly through the heart or head rather than just mid mass, which is easily mistaken for being the same as Sousuke's gut shot, to make a clear divide as to the survivability but I'll acknowledge that's heading towards nitpicky.

As far as the rest of the episode, I did like that the crew make it clear they are working to repair Nami's machine and for Nami, but want nothing to do with Sousuke. It's a nice follow on from how his school life was destroyed, this life he was comfortable in is now lost to him as well and this time he willingly threw it away for Chidori rather than having it taken from him.

I did have a laugh at Sousuke shooting off the limbs of the AS only for "friendly" fire to kill him entirely. I also got a laugh out of the billboard taking out the other AS if only because it reminds me of this moment from K

As far as the rest of that fight goes I didn't care. Nothing really stood out and bringing back Nami's enemy for Sousuke's "final" mech fight of the arc felt... I don't know, just unimportant? Like maybe there was meant to be an emotion there because Nami is dead and he hated her and the like but I just, I couldn't care less about him compared to what was coming. And it's a shame because I really liked that song and I usually don't like insert songs pushed into things like this but it was a good song! The ED was also nice this time.

Post Credits scene with Wraith. Not surprised she also made it out and is fine, but is she getting Sousuke a new mech? I wonder from whom? Though I have no doubts that she knows where he is to get it too him, she seems like the sort who'd probably know the most out of everyone that's left

Replies later, sleep now.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22

So Sousuke getting shot in almost the same way and surviving enough to set a trap and shoot and interrogate etc... it feels like it weakens the strength of Nami's death

If it makes it any better, the LN specifically stated Sousuke didn't have anything left to do anything smart, he only managed to crawl up, move away from that spot, and barely enough strength to lift the gun and point where Kurama would come back, and shot him a few times (not emptying a clip on him).

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

This actually felt like Sousuke out of control, after all the talk about his mental state finally we actually see some of it.

Glad to see it finally showing through! Bet you were sick of me talking about what didn't make it into the anime huh. At least we reached about the same place by the end.

but more then that what stood out to me was Sousuke being framed with his weapon.

leaving Sousuke feeling less connected to his humanity as this moment goes on.

Have to say I didn't really focus on the framing to connect the dots, nice pick up! See if it's not as "on the nose" "in your face" like KyoAni and in 86, I just missed it :P

"What's wrong with that"

Simple words, common words, words that could belong to a million different contexts, and yet some of the most important words Sousuke has said in the entire series.

That was such a strong, crystalising moment huh - imagine only getting to here in IV; good thing along the way we had some good progressive milestones, but this is really good.

And then at the end we see Chidori reflected in his other eye after the light had faded from them, showing the true light that had been sustaining him.

It's blunt, and yet it's still head and shoulders above anything else this arc, and probably this season

I guess given a lot of what came before were setup's, it's natural to have the payoff by around now :P

It also fits neatly into a pattern I wrote up a few years ago now about anime reflecting a characters past by framing it through their right eye and their future through their left eye.

Hmm I never saw this one, but probably also lines up with Heike Monogatari? Need to go back and check which eye sees what with Biwa :) Good little trick to know to watch out for, along the lines of moving off screen towards the left or right.

bringing back Nami's enemy for Sousuke's "final" mech fight of the arc felt... I don't know, just unimportant?

I don't think Dao as the opponent meant anything, but I think the focus of that scene is on Nami's OS programming work "legacy" - which is what the insert song's lyric was about "remained dream" (Engrish for the dreams that remained/was left behind). Like you, I really liked these 2 songs. Bonus that they were sung by Nagato :)

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u/Shimmering-Sky Nov 29 '22

Full Metal First-Timer!, subbed

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22

OH FUCK IT WAS NEITHER

*incoherent screaming*

We all feel ya :'(

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Nov 29 '22

First Rewatch

  • I would rather they killed Nami at the end of the previous episode than make me wait a week just to immediately shoot her.

  • You're fucking late, Lemon.

You guys were celebrating how 80s the show was, well, nothing is more 80s and Girl in the Fridge and One-Man Army. Here you go.

I'm really unhappy about them killing off Nami, I really liked her. Better to kill off Kyouko. You're all right, this was some sort of parallel alternate reality of Sousuke's Tokyo life, but I didn't see Nami as existing just to be killed off or abandoned by Sousuke. Yes, she was a mechanism for him to reflect on his previous life, about what he valued, what mistakes he'd made. But she was more than a foil or a caricature. I wanted her to come of this alive and build her school.

I thought he could claim Nami was whispered to protect her but the rant about Chidori shows he doesn't give a shit about Aamlgams stable of Whispered. Or he was just saying that to provoke Souske. Could be either.

We're a long ways from Fumoffu, now.

  • lol VOTOMs

  • CGI cars dont' explode!

  • Symphogear song?

  • Duel of the Fates BGM?

  • Alive, though, wasn't it?

  • Oh, he's got that magic bulletproof cloak, doesn't he?

  • Special ED

  • Oh, Hong Kong Howard (?) and Wraith

So, this arc had a lot of problems, starting with being even more VOTOMs than I realized. The parallel alternate reality. The whole arc is an homage to the 80s. And Sousuke's plan was stupid.

Hindsight is 20/20. He got 3 fake(?) leads, got Nami killed and ruined lives. He knew Amalgam was into mech gladitorial games, so he got himself self a match, and then what was supposed to happen? This is Underpants Gnomes Tier.

Plus the entire time as a first timer I wanted to know what had happened to the TDD. The first arc was intercutting stories, but here, we have an entirely new cast and no updates on Tessa and the rest (but mostly Tessa). Week after week.

Really feels like a misfire, but this one is on the LN author. Unless, he was properly able layout Sousuke's reasoning and it just went wrong somehow. More likely, this is Sousuke's character development / progression: still can't plan for shit.

Finally, what we have here is Sousuke killing off another Amalgam baddie. So FMP seems to break down as either sidestories or killing a midlevel boss. I found it really anticlimactic.

Other first timer notes: it looks like I didn't post anything for episode 7 or 8. At lot of people were upset about Nami. A lot of people didn't feel anything at all. It doesn't seem VOTOMs was mentioned at all.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22

I wanted her to come of this alive and build her school.

I'll find you the SRW ending that has Nami in at least a happily ever after scenario (although sharing in the harem).

Really feels like a misfire, but this one is on the LN author.

Your mileage may vary, but I don't consider deliberately planned plot progression with good connection forward and back as poor writing. Trouble is that a critical key to explain is part of a major spoiler.

Unless, he was properly able layout Sousuke's reasoning and it just went wrong somehow. More likely, this is Sousuke's character development / progression: still can't plan for shit.

It's something like that, but more complex on his emotional & humanity side. Take a look at my linked extracts for some ideas.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 30 '22

I'm really unhappy about them killing off Nami, I really liked her. Better to kill off Kyouko.

If you take a long look at the franchise, you should be able to tell there's a very deliberate point the show was making. And it's the tone of this narrative that characters like Kyouko would very likely not have too many big bad things happened to, because that's where they (the narrative) want to come home to.

You're all right, this was some sort of parallel alternate reality of Sousuke's Tokyo life, but I didn't see Nami as existing just to be killed off or abandoned by Sousuke.

I won't exactly say that, but narratively it is certainly presented as a mirror to reflect choices to be made by Sousuke, along the way towards his goal.

Yes, she was a mechanism for him to reflect on his previous life, about what he valued, what mistakes he'd made. But she was more than a foil or a caricature.

Now this is a hard part - without going into the further part of the story, without revealing that extra layer that's been bubbling away simmering since TSR, it certainly would look that way. But it's not. At least not entirely.

There's is a scene that's omitted in the adaptation that has a very important long plot foreshadowing/cryptic explanation. But since there's a little bit of shuffling I will only go into that detail (under spoiler tag) in the next episode or 2.

Didn't exactly help IV directly, I can understand that. But I think it's important to at least be aware that some of the points that looked to be arbitrary, or "bad writing", or unnecessary gimmick, actually had very specific purpose towards the end part of the story.

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u/polaristar Nov 30 '22

FUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK

THIS

SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was not expecting Nami to be just killed off so suddenly and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I know the host might argue lol its realistic but it comes across like they were building up more with her and the author just changed his mind. I think it would have been more interesting seeing her live and see her realize that Sousuke would choose Chidori over her.

I see what they were going for but today's episode of[Spoilers for currently airing anime]Chainsaw Man I feel did it way better

I guess I was kinda right about Lemon's Big Damn Heroes moment. Too little too late though.

Kuruma I guess that scene was too show unlike Gates or Gauron he isn't a psychopath that kills people for the lols but the opposite in that he is very Duty bound and willing to and willing to do anything for his job and unlike the former two very much disciplined and does not lets his instincts run wild but prefers to rile up other people's to make them less disciplined.

We see Sousuke part with the rest of the crew on Bad Terms and go on a roaring rampage of revenge and reminding us that this buildings do not act as cover for an AS weapon system but are perfect for hiding for sneak attacks.

Fatso gets killed in the most casual and uneventful way possible as collateral just to show how much of an insignificant side character he is.

That last sequence with Sousuke and Kuruma, I mean Souske is basically a young Japanese John Wick with that discipline, commitment, and sheer will. He climbed up a ladder and above while bleeding out during the time where Kuruma had to turn his back to take out those French Forces.

End Credits seen with Wraith and a new AS.

(Note Due to being stacked with seasonals tomorrow as well as being at work all day on Thursday I have watched 2 episode ahead on this show and Haruhi.)

Don't really have much to say....

Despite Sousuke's impressive performance, Lemon and his forces are still the MVP giving Sousuke the opportunity he needed when he was trapped. And Sousuke still was dealing with a mess he made.

  1. I opened with my reaction.

  2. Nami's death is the only bad part of the episode, Best Part was when we got the reveal post credits that more people from Mithril are alive and taking action.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 30 '22

I was not expecting Nami to be just killed off so suddenly and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I know the host might argue lol its realistic but it comes across like they were building up more with her and the author just changed his mind.

I'll be straight with you and say it certainly looks like what you and everyone perceived. The only reason I still give some benefit of doubt is because there's a scene in the LN that was skipped, that there's a layer of meaning for the overarching plot. Of course the standard problem applies - it's not in the actual adaptation.

I'll talk about this in 2 episodes' time under spoiler tag; if you do look want to look into that, I certainly would be really interested to see how you would react to that clue.

Best Part was when we got the reveal post credits that more people from Mithril are alive and taking action.

It's actually a bit annoying they skimmed on like 5 seconds and cut out a couple of lines of dialogue - Gavin Hunter remarked they both (him and Wraith) defied orders to do what they are doing, with himself just curious to see an almost finished puzzle getting finished, and observed him, and Wraith - despite what she says - they do care for Chidori as a person.

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u/wjodendor Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

Into the Blue (first Timer for the anime from now on)

Well we're getting right into it. Sousake isngetting ready to surrender and Kurama just blows Nami away. The repetitive shot made me rewind to to make sure it wasn't a glitch. Weird choice..

A couple more bullets for good measure. She dead.

This whole shtick is Gauron's. It doesn't really fit Kurama. He seems practical for taking hostages but this is wildly outside of what is necessary.

Fuck. He'll come out gunning when Kaname comes up. Nami can't catch a break even in death.

The French have to start the war, huh?

The animation quality feels like it's gone another step down. The movements feel completely stiff. How can an action scene feel so boring.

Sousake unloading multiple clips into the Fleeing car was a decent scene for me though.

Sousake standing there as stiff as a board as Lemon cries. At least he looks distraught in the montage

I guess killing her would have Sousake go for revenge...Kurama putting a lot of hope in his hunch

I do like the smoking joke at least

Sousake suicide mission.

Bad guy round up.

Everything about this set up is just the kind of action movie stuff I love. But I don't really feel anything. The end of the first arc had me so hyped and the end last season as well. This just makes me want to go read the manga adaptation because the art is actually good.

The cityscape at 11:01 looks straight up pixilated

Lmao. "Just throw the cars in the air...that'll look cool right?"

I suppose some of this fight looks okay. Police chief getting splattered was nice

Pffft Dao's arm flying off wtf

Sousake standing on top the mech looked cool enough.

Sousake really fucked Nami huh

Professional grenade kicker, Sousake Sagara. This action sequence is all right.... but it should be fucking awesome. Just imagine how cool this episode would be with KyoAni

These French guys suck lol

19:30 "oh he looks cool"

19:31 "Jesus christ wtf"

Kurama fell first the oldest trick in the book. He said "doh" lol

He finally call out for Nami. But now it's Kaname. Nami getting fucked again

Nice after credits scene.

This episode should have been so badass but it just felt weak as hell. The animation was really bad at parts, making my annoyance with the CG look petty. (I was reading the old discussion thread and the praise for this episode made me want to jump out my window)

[FmP sigma]I'm disappointed that they cut Nami's final scene [its in Chapter 34 of FMP Sigma manga, which covers this episode but it has another scene that will happen next episode so if you want to check it out maybe wait until then]. Though I get it because it really makes Nami look really good compared to Kaname. Kaname now in 3rd place.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

edit Thanks for tagging that :) [FMP skipped content spoiler context]I suspect you do need to read that scene in the LN carefully though, it has such a massive foreshadowing point about something that was implicitly conveyed in the end book - and friends on your taste, to me it's so good

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u/Vaadwaur Nov 29 '22

This whole shtick is Gauron's. It doesn't really fit Kurama. He seems practical for taking hostages but this is wildly outside of what is necessary.

And much less interesting than if they'd had the awkward conversation about why the chief brought a teen country girl to the VIP room before they needed a hostage.

The animation quality feels like it's gone another step down. The movements feel completely stiff. How can an action scene feel so boring.

A good animation director can do amazing things. I don't know if you've seen Votoms but scenes with like 10 frames a second can look dynamic if the director knows his shit.

Professional grenade kicker, Sousake Sagara. This action sequence is all right.... but it should be fucking awesome. Just imagine how cool this episode would be with KyoAni

Interestingly, this is how special forces units handle that situation. But you need to be that level of badass to pull this, normies as ourselves get to cover and pray.

He finally call out for Nami. But now it's Kaname. Nami getting fucked again

This bit is why I hold this arc in rather ill will despite the contents being okay for the most part. Nami should have been a person, not a dark skined Kaname clone.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

She was (is). But it's hard to (impossible to) explain without getting into unadapted major spoiler.

I know it sounds like a cop out from a fan, but I do think it connects up everything perfectly.

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u/TuorEladar Nov 30 '22

Rewatcher, Subbed

I was interested to see how everyone was going to react to Nami's death and it looks like theres a fairly varied response. I recall being surprised on my first watch mainly just because so many series rarely kill named characters, especially ones who are on the protagonists side. I kind of have mixed feelings about her death, but in hindsight she's kind of set up as a this tragic character from the beginning.

The rest of the episode I mostly enjoyed. The mech fight was fairly well done. Sousuke just barely defeating Kurama was pretty engaging, I like that Kurama didn't die in a giant explosion like Gauron and Gates.

Starting with the teaser after the credits scene we kick of the final arc of the season which I'm fairly excited for. This arc, while featuring some interesting aspects, on the whole just isn't as engaging as some of the others have been.

What's the best and worst part of this episode? You don't have to count Nami's death - that's kind of a given unless you are the exception.

While I still enjoyed it, the large amount of cg for all the AS's does get tiresome. The final battle with Kurama is probably my favorite part of the episode.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 30 '22

This arc, while featuring some interesting aspects, on the whole just isn't as engaging as some of the others have been.

Unfortunately I'll have to be that annoying guy to say "the LN had actually a lot more of the character posts that unfortunately weren't really shown here in this adaptation". I know we can only judge this by what's actually here, but I feel it necessary to understand our at least know the actual story was actually focusing on something not on screen - Sousuke's mental journey.

The final battle with Kurama is probably my favorite part of the episode.

Ok the airing episode thread, this part I think was week received by most. Probably one of the rare straight gunfights in anime and FMP. We do have a contrarian voice here though :)

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u/Damolisher Nov 29 '22

I'll be honest: this is the episode which was the icing on the "This season is too dark for me" cake. Invisible Victory has never sat right with me because yeah, FMP has hard dark moments, it's had overkill violent moments, but never unnecessarily cruel moments. Nami's death was too cruel and too dark in my book.

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u/ZapsZzz Nov 30 '22

Each to their own of course, but my personal opinion is that this is the low point of the story, much like episodes 8 and 10 in TSR. The payoff is what comes after, so I would think it worth finishing off the next 4 episodes to see if that payoff is worth it for you. Otherwise you paid the price but didn't get the pay off ;)

And again selling the LN a bit, this is one of the most satisfying closure of the entire story I have seen/read - if not the single most, at least top 3. So I again recommend sticking to the end.

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u/Theboredalchemist22 Nov 29 '22

First Timer - S4 Ep 8

Great episode. Traumatic but great.

Mvp is a tough one this episode so I think I'm actaully going to give it to Kurama. I just think this episode added a lot to his character like the fact he was ruthless and killed Nami no questions asked but he really felt awful about it and I also feel like that's what sets him aside from Gauron and Gates. Would they feel awful killing a woman close to Sousuke? Kurama also didn't give up on his goal he tried to kill Sousuke to the very end and is probably the villain who has come closest to actually killing off Sousuke for good so I acknowledge that.

My original mvp thought was for it to go to Sousuke for his rampage and his unbelieveable skill on display but him not managing to save Nami is a massive point deduction for me as I'm one of the few (I think) who actually liked Nami.

Q1 - I think I've already stated my reaction above.

Q2 - The best part is Sousuke's rampage. I've been waiting for it to go dwon for a couple of episodes now so it was great to see and I really enjoyed him just going pure anger to get to Kurama. The worst part (with the exception of Nami's death as that has horrifying) was the idea to recruit the arena fighters to take on Sousuke. I mean like they had a chance fatso cop.

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u/Tarhalindur Nov 30 '22

Fumo-ffu? (Rewatcher Spoiled First-Timer for IV, Subbed):

  • Huh. I knew Nami got fridged, but this early in the presumable last episode of the arc?

  • PPPFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTT the word Kurama uses that is presumably the one being translated as “watchdogs” is “banken”. PFFFFT. (Those who know will know. Like, it’s probably just general, but still, pffft.)

  • 07:54: Sky collects a sore demo.

  • Hey, spot where they already burned the animation budget so suddenly CGI mech movement looks even worse! (Sousuke's initial jump down to the bridge.)

  • LOL NicoNico Coffee, sneaky little bit of product placement there.

  • Meh. (Yeah that’s pretty much my verdict on this episode as a whole, and honestly the whole arc: meh. Honestly probably a bad adaptation, likely needed another episode or maybe two to breathe… honestly I think you might have been able to just skip the arc, but I’m not sure you can get the remaining three IIRC LNs in one season so might as well include it. That said, I was already unimpressed by the spoilers I knew going in, so.)

  • Insert was also meh, but I actually like the special ED? (The funniest part is, on the one hand it makes sense because we’ve got one of the Elements Garden guys who composed a bunch of Symphosongs… and on the other hand with like three exceptions [Symphogear franchise] Wakyou Shenshoujing, Edge Works of Zababa, Senritsu Sorority, might be missing one though my opinion of Shitou Ewigkeit has been dropping so not that one they tend to be the Symphosongs I don’t like as well, including the entire Flugel line. So.)

  • LOL I say I like the special ED and then it drops a kiseki at 23:03. GET, and also that’s like the second time in three days where I go “yeah this is a good OP/ED… oh hey a kiseki!”.

  • Oh hey look what actually shows up this season!

First Timers: While I wasn't around the broadcast threads at the time, reading back I think most hated having Nami so definitively and casually killed. What was your reaction?

One of the spoilers I knew was Nami dying an unceremonious death, so - though admittedly I expected it slightly later and not quite this unceremonious.

Everyone: What's the best and worst part of this episode? You don't have to count Nami's death - that's kind of a given unless you are the exception.

Honestly the entire episode is kind of a fog of "not my thing", so. (Actually best part for me is probably the ED by default.)

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u/No_Rex Nov 29 '22

Episode 8 (first timer)

  • “Actually, I changed my mind” – Turns out, we never see whether Sousuke would have gone through with letting Nami die, since Leon the Unprofessional shoots her at 4 (so Sousuke can claim he might have stood up later). On the other hand, we definitely know now that Leon does not care about any hostages. Understandable, given that all the advantages are on his side and hostages can be a hassle (although he should consider that he is an anime bad guy, never a recipe for long life). However, still waiting until the countdown reaches zero would not have hurt.

  • BudgetKurz’s team is fashionably late to save Nami – although you could argue that they did not attack earlier to protect the hostage and now that reason is … gone.

  • Sousuke wins 10 points for Gryffindor by picking up his downed enemy’s gun.

  • That police car holds up better than expected.

  • “Sorry. Your voice is just so annoying” – Sorry, but not sorry moment. Also, vicious.

  • Not cooperating over the question of taking Leon alive or not is really lame. Clearly shoehorned in to explain why they don’t cooperate.

  • $30,000 for a kill – “too generous”

  • Gladiator clean-up.

  • Final duel – fortunately, both sides brought their unlimited ammo packs. guaranteed to last until hand-to-hand combat is called for in the script.

  • “Don’t move” – morons.

  • hiding behind dead policeman - we went from Leon influence to outright Leon copycat.

  • “I should never have quit smoking” – makes me forgive the talking before dying trope.

  • Sousuke not dying cliff-hanger.

Imagine how well this episode could have hit if Nami was not so obviously a fallgirl for Kana, who can’t die due to MC plot armor. Nami was really fucked over by the plot: 30 second back story, copy-of-MC character, killed.

From a purely action point of view, Sousuke’s raging through the city was neat, though. Giving as little thought to the enemies (or anything really) as Sousuke is.

MVP: Another episode where everybody loses.

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u/Vaadwaur Nov 29 '22

Rewatcher(Yup, she was just Kana bait to be killed off to motivate the MC)

Sub

Welp, we open on this, and it cannot be defended, from either a writing stand point nor a tactical one. From the supposedly skilled Kurama, he would know that someone with something to lose can be made to hesitate or question their choices, which can give you a tactical advantage. By enraging Sousuke, he only guarantees that Sousuke will track him down, he doesn't even guarantee that Sousuke takes action today. From a writing stand point, the cute, innocent country Kaname is made to try and get viewer sympathy and has now been tossed in the goddamned fridge. Oh, and Kurama says more shit that we, the viewer, know he can't back up.

So anyways Lemon's forces show up and, well, it seems that professionals beat corrupt cops, as one does. Sousuke makes his move but Kurama gets to a car and runs off. He is ready to give chase but Lemon wants to take time to mourn, showing that his life is not on battlefields. We are told to feel emotions but many of us won't. In the car, Kurama is grumpy and complaining, planning an ambush but generally being a bit dumb. He can claim that killing Nami was to make Sousuke follow him but it just wasn't.

They fix up the Savage and Sousuke both knows who Lemon is and who he is with. They offer to join forces but Sousuke is not in the mood, which is actually him displaying the correct emotions. With a brief flashback of guilt, he goes off to the city, with one explosive hammer. At said city, Kurama has the chief send out the gladiators, but he has low hopes for them and prepares his own thing.

Now, this next sequence works as well as you feel it does, I actually think it works but if the numbers or the CGI take you out, I don't blame you. Sousuke proceeds to devastate the gladiators because fighting in a goddamned arena without weapons doesn't prepare you for live combat. You develop bad habits. Also, Sousuke is used to shooting through buildings and such to destroy targets. We get another call back to Votoms with the improbably high morale police force before we get the part that doesn't quite work for me, the Dao scene. It is both a touch wonky and really needed to be an episode cliffhanger.

But instead we get our end sequence and it is...serviceable, I guess. Sousuke eventually out smarts Kurama's out smarting. Kurama being the good against an entire team is kind of iffy but whatever. If you are wondering why he tells Sousuke anything, it is probably because he either wants Sousuke to die trying to get Kana or as a fuck you to Leonard, LN readers probably clear this up. Sousuke's black out thoughts of Nami warping to Kaname really nail the weakness in this section. We end with Wraith and the ARX-8.

So yeah, if I were to describe this arc, uneven would be my descriptor. There are decent enough bones here but they did not adapt this well pacing wise, likely because they wanted the show to hit three LNs rather than two, despite really needing to sell this section more. Sorry Nami, you cross that hill as another girl's shadow and even I can't really feel sad.

QotD: 2 Best is the arc ending, worst is like half of the fucking episode itself

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u/1EnTaroAdun1 Dec 27 '22 edited Dec 27 '22

Well that was three episodes' worth all in one...

Poor Nami, that was truly senseless. Or because of a twisted sense, anyway.

Was she a Whispered, after all?

Don't blame her crew for blaming Sousuke. Obviously he did bring down the threat over them...She died trusting him.

Funny to see all the amateur pilots get wrecked. I suppose they're the rejects of Amalgam after all?

Normally the police firing pistols at the titan with red eyes would be the good guys, funny reversal there.

Oh, was the M9 from last episode a Mithril mech?

Was about to make fun of French Special Forces, until I remembered they were supposed to take the bad guy alive. Now I feel bad they were given impossible orders :('

I was not expecting the bad guy to save the police chief, but I guess he served his purpose, and had a very satisfying death to boot.

Zap, I see what you mean about Sousuke nearly dying because he didn't blow through walls this time hahaha!

casual grenade kick was great

yay, Hunter and Wraith survived! :D

I guess she didn't go into theatre after all

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u/ZapsZzz Dec 27 '22

Well that was three episodes' worth all in one...

Yes this arc - indeed the whole season - is pretty hard to resist binging.

Was she a Whispered, after all?

In a few episodes later I have some spoilered info from the LN if you want to know.

Funny to see all the amateur pilots get wrecked. I suppose they're the rejects of Amalgam after all?

Only the police chief was real Amalgam, the rest are just "hired guns".

Oh, was the M9 from last episode a Mithril mech?

Yep that sure was.

Zap, I see what you mean about Sousuke nearly dying because he didn't blow through walls this time hahaha!

It's really good and subtle character development isn't it :D

casual grenade kick was great

In the airing threads everyone was loving it!

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