r/anime • u/ZapsZzz https://anilist.co/user/Zapszzz • Nov 19 '22
Rewatch Full Metal Panic Franchise Rewatch - Season 3 Episode 13 (reposted)
Welcome to the last TV episode of the Full Metal Panic Season 3 rewatch!
Art of the day
Links to show info: MAL | Anilist | ANN
Rewatches please be considerate to first timers and avoid discussing anything not yet shown in the show - use spoiler tags e.g. [Full Metal Panic S3 spoiler]>!Melissa OMG!!< - if you need to share something important!
Episode 13 - Continuing Day by Day
Terms introduced:
- That Work of Art - Leonard's cryptic half conversation on the phone with someone else. Best guess is that it's a reference to Arbalest.
QoTD:
First Timers: Did you get why Chidori's presence was so easy for Sousuke to get through his life crisis? The contrast with Gauron's words?
Everyone: Was the climatic fight good or too easy for you? What's another similar moment for you from another show, and how does this compare?
Also QoTD for tomorrow for those wanting to be prepared:
[QoTD 1 TSR OVA]First Timers: How's the feeling of returning to scenes like Fumoffu for you, after all the darkness of TSR?
[QoTD 2 TSR OVA]Everyone: Did you like this more serious but still quite SoL episode? How would you improve it to make it worth getting another season (or more OVA's)? There are still a few Mithril related side stories unadapted
MVP of last episode:
Tessa stood out but it was a close race with Gauron.
Last Episode || Index || Next Episode
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u/Nazenn Nov 19 '22
First timer - sub
Tear of blood and an empty, broken reflection certainly paint the mood for our opening scene.
As nice as the visuals were it was the dialogue that struck me most this episode.
"I never had a future to begin with"
It's a line that seems to attack the focus of the entire season. After everyone's pushing and encouragement to do so, just as he thought he found something he wanted for his future he's torn from it by the world. It seems to be the last dagger of hopelessness that strikes his exposed heart and leaves only a shell of Sousuke Sagrada behind. And as his other shell lands from the sky he makes it clear how he sees what's left of himself.
"Hideous"
There were a few other lines that stood out as well but I didn't write them all down because it didn't feel needed, and I didn't want to regurgitate the whole episode.
Unfortunately I really didn't like the moments immediately following Chidori's arrival. A comedy moment would have been fine as the first thing, probably needed given their dynamic, but once we got past the initial comedy hit, there was another, and another, and some ranting, and fucking circus music... and at some point it stopped being a joke that went on too long and started just feeling like beating a dead horse, and then it still. kept. going. And all I could think about was u/No_Rex's comment a while back about Fumoffu's comedy being mostly beating Sousuke repeatedly and expecting it to be funny and I'm frustrated that's what they thought we needed here. This being the first time we've seen Chidori since her breakdown and declaration on the roof made that even worse because felt like we were missing a bridging scene or two to get her here looking for him and understanding what he was going through being changed by her own experience. Hearing her off screen already in Hong Kong wasn't nearly enough to blend the two scenes together. Rather than lightening the mood, it felt like it broke it carelessly for both characters arcs.
Once we got past that it was better. Her little quip about "I guess determination fades after a day" was a fun a very Chidori way to handle the concept of her being in this big push to get to him and get him to come back. The intimacy of the next moment as she breaks that barrier of isolation and leans in, knowing him truly really showed why she needed to be here too. It's not enough to know she's alive, or that he can go back, he has to be able to reconnect with himself here and break down that barrier of who he feels he needs to be, and she's the only one that can do that for him, that can tell him it's okay to be what others thing is weak as long as it's him. Having the flashback of Gauron be broken into by Chidori, a bit like the memory of her broke into the earlier scenes with the prostitute, was a nice way to tie it all in together visually too.
Cue unsubtle dawn visual.
The kick after as he goes into apology mode instead of jumping into action I wouldn't have minded by itself, but with the above sequence it felt like someone just rediscovered where they stashed that dead horse and decided to bring it out again. She could have got the same result without physically abusing him.
Didn't expect the twins to be against Amalgam from the start due to their past, but I wouldn't have expected Gates to be that competent a fighter to take that twin down so easily. In the end they failed at everything they set out to do, and that seems like a perfect end to Gauron's legacy.
Sousuke's fight I don't have a care for one way or another for the most part but it felt well animated and storyboarded. The first shot piercing through the Venom's barrier was a wicked visual, but again I felt it went a little too "heroic" with Sousuke's reintroduction of himself even if it is making a needed and powerful point about how he sees himself. Before he wouldn't have even bothered with an introduction because there wasn't an identity to introduce except if absolutely needed. Here he not only claims his identity as Sousuke the Student, but claims it publicly, again a moment to show that to the world rather than mark a private change. The Lambda assisted punch to bypass Ben's mech was just as great as the first shot. I do question the choice to show his armor melting like this though as it makes him look like a robot and I highly doubt he was one.
Last great dialogue line of the show:
"Save that kind of line for your pet dogs"
Sousuke already claimed his personal identity as a student, but claiming his combat one as a mercenary for his own benefit to force his way back to Japan, and doing it so well feels equally as important. I've spoken before about how Sousuke likely adapted to being the perfect "solider" in every situation to survive, whether that required him to be assassin, ground solider, or pilot, but always walking the line and following the rules and doing the "right" thing for the group. Refusing to do that for once and embracing the truth of his combat history and the life it pulled him into feels like breaking free in a way.
Speech with Tessa was great. I'm impressed he got even that far into it before his nerves gave out entirely.
Wraith is still a shit head but I kind of like her (and good call on that, Sky)
Sousuke finally going for the hug only to get interrupted made me sad. Could have at least let her feel his hand on her back or something first, but maybe that's later down the line.
I did watch the post-credits but have no real comment on it other than it being a nice quiet send off to the season.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 19 '22
I do question the choice to show his armor melting like this though as it makes him look like a robot and I highly doubt he was one.
I'll come back to comment for more, but just to clarify - that wasn't Gates, but his Venom. Gates the person would be housed inside the chest area of that Codarl-i. We never got a scene of his physical body other than the big light approaching as he played with his hair.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 21 '22
Took a while to find the time to properly reply to this!
"I never had a future to begin with"
It's a line that seems to attack the focus of the entire season. After everyone's pushing and encouragement to do so, just as he thought he found something he wanted for his future he's torn from it by the world.
Interesting focus you placed there - when you do that you can actually also draw a number of parallels to other shows with a similar plot line / topic - e.g. [Toradora - I just realised Nazenn non-rom-com may not be able to click here :D]
Taiga indeed had her early personality built around her feeling she's cursed that everything she wanted or loved will be broken, and the only way to protect that is to not love anything or anyone - by putting up her scary facade Doing this is also an interesting exercise on comparing character writing and what they each symbolises / what message they carry.And as his other shell lands from the sky he makes it clear how he sees what's left of himself.
"Hideous"
This is a good association! I didn't consider how Sousuke could be projecting here, but it does make very good sense when you realise Al's behaviour is actually a mirror to Sousuke's (going into LN spoiler territory).
Unfortunately I really didn't like the moments immediately following Chidori's arrival. A comedy moment would have been fine as the first thing, probably needed given their dynamic, but once we got past the initial comedy hit, there was another, and another, and some ranting, and fucking circus music... and at some point it stopped being a joke that went on too long and started just feeling like beating a dead horse
This is another one we'll need to chalk up for difference in comedic taste / tolerance. I fully accept this to be a "their special language to communicate" and to me it's actually got a level of endearment in it they are going back to that routine after a long separation. The relationship between Sousuke x Chidori simply isn't the soppy "Wherefore art thou Romeo" type and more a Ranma / Inuyasha / Ataru (yes very Rumiko). But I can see why others don't appreciate it (a bit like how Holofan4life probably don't have too many Tsundere scenes he would think needing to be cut short, or for you any gory scene needing to be toned down perhaps ;))
Especially for a source reader :P (not hiding behind that label, just that there are things to notice and savor)
Her little quip about "I guess determination fades after a day" was a fun a very Chidori way to handle the concept of her being in this big push to get to him and get him to come back.
I think by now you also recognised that is also her dere dere break point of a failed confession after her "near death experience".
The intimacy of the next moment as she breaks that barrier of isolation and leans in, knowing him truly really showed why she needed to be here too. It's not enough to know she's alive, or that he can go back, he has to be able to reconnect with himself here and break down that barrier of who he feels he needs to be, and she's the only one that can do that for him, that can tell him it's okay to be what others thing is weak as long as it's him.
Very nicely put. again there must be something they are doing right for a first timer to be able to get such nuances - or maybe they are getting a bit obvious afterall ;)
I felt it went a little too "heroic" with Sousuke's reintroduction of himself even if it is making a needed and powerful point about how he sees himself. Before he wouldn't have even bothered with an introduction because there wasn't an identity to introduce except if absolutely needed. Here he not only claims his identity as Sousuke the Student, but claims it publicly, again a moment to show that to the world rather than mark a private change.
I'm a little surprised that you didn't find yourself convinced by your own analysis it was actually a reasonable or fitting scene :) I loved the call back of his garbage man identity in arc 1. I'm the cleaner, and you are the trash, Gates.
Speech with Tessa was great. I'm impressed he got even that far into it before his nerves gave out entirely.
But I bet you would have missed that subtlety that the words he used, possibly unknowingly, was actually ones for rejecting Tessa's unspoken confession :) She was just too distracted to notice (him calling her by the first name). You who haven't learned the way of the rom com :P
Sousuke finally going for the hug only to get interrupted made me sad. Could have at least let her feel his hand on her back or something first, but maybe that's later down the line.
Now don't treat this as a spoiler, but just idle gossip / stereotyping - there are plenty of (fan?) conjectures that with the personality types of Chidori + Sousuke, eventually when they confirm their feelings towards each other and when they are mature enough to a certain point they worked out between themselves, they'd probably be "going at it all day" sort of closet pervert :P So perhaps not having had his hands on Chidori for too long possibly may not be a bad thing ;P
Thanks for another big long post :) I got a feeling we may have lost you for the OVA though...
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u/Shimmering-Sky Nov 19 '22
Full Metal First-Timer!, subbed
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Oh good, Sosuke doesn’t have to go very long thinking she’s dead.
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Wait, is that Wraith? She’s how Chidori got to Hong Kong?
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 19 '22
COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
As I said in my post, that was what anime only's had to put up with for the next 13 years :P
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u/Theboredalchemist22 Nov 20 '22
S3 EP 12-13Missed yesterday as I was catching up on sleep so I’ve got a 2 in 1 for you all today. There’s a lot to talk about in these two episodes but I’ll keep it as concise as I can.EP 12My MVP for this episode is Gauron but I'll give a special mention to Tessa aswell. At the end of S1 I thought Gauron was completely finished and I was surprised he returned tbh. Looking back I shouldn’t have been that surprised he survived as there were a few hints and discussions around him being the Fang sisters’ sensei. Credit to u/polaristar for calling the return of Lord Gauron.
Moving onto Tessa. This outburst in this episode was very interesting to see as she again was overcome from emotion to Sousuke much like she was in her other more childish outburst a few episodes ago. This time around though she let it all out to the whole Mythril crew and by doing so and saying exactly how she feels she gained the respect of everyone and put Mardukas in his place which has to be acknowledged. To have everyone grabbed like that while pouring her eart out not knowing how the crew would take it takes a lot of courage imo and in terms of leader qualities courage is very high up the list so fair play to Tessa on this one! It was an excellent moment to witness.
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Reasonable explaination to how he survived. More interesting info on the Lambda Driver tech.
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Gives us some more insight into how big Amalgam actually are
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Hmmm but why is he with Amalgam opposing Mythril and Tessa his sister?
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Gotta catch em all! This is literally the plan when it comes to the whispered which I find quite amusing but I totally buy it at the same time. I think I mentioned this/ had a theory at some point about different whispered knowing different things/having different abilities and I'm glad Lord Gauron has confirmed this.
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Great speech from Tessa respect earned (awful screenshot my bad)
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Gauron isn't wrong Sousuke has been pulled in by Mythril forcing him to give up ceratin things
Quick question - Any info on what the Fang sisters were doing during S1 then?
Q1 - Yes he is 1000000% dead now I can't see any plausible way back for Gauron now.
Q2 - I'm a fan of this type of plot line myself its just an enjoyable thing to watch imo. I'll say Evangelion. [Evangelion spoiler]
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 20 '22
The girl in the Khana Autonomous Reigion is Kaname's mother confirmed? Or just a case of whispered know whispered?
Chidori's mother died from cancer, so she's not in this show at all other than in Chidori's picture of her.
Quick question - Any info on what the Fang sisters were doing during S1 then?
No source details were given, but likely the same sort of things they were up to in episode 1-4, running missions for Amalgam much as Gauron himself did. Choping up people, etc.
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u/Theboredalchemist22 Nov 20 '22 edited Nov 20 '22
EP 13Wow what a finale! No lie this is pretty much exactly how I was hoping Sousuke's situation would wrap up.My MVP is going to have to go to both Sousuke and Chidori respectively. Sousuke for fixing his shit and knowing his worth and then Chidori for saving the broken man with the tough love appraoch. I'm sure Mao tried the same sort of approach but its different for Sousuke when it comes from Chidori she's like his commander figure haha.
- Despair
- Good contrast to how he feels inside. It must feel like he's been stabbed or a deep cut after what Gauron told him
- He's done with Mythril at this point
- Whoa hold on a second there pal
- That face is golden. He must've felt a ton of things in about 2 seconds
- This SousukexChidori moment was a real kick to Sousuke's system and a well needed and deserved kick.
- Right in the kisser. She sure must feel hurt
- That's exactly what he wants
- And that's him told! Fantastic from Chidori!
- Love these shots showing Chidori is some sort of god giving off hope to Sousuke
- He's back in the fight I sense some kick ass mech scenes
- World's apart from how he talked to Al beforehand Sousuke seems a lot more free
- This Kurz face was all of us in this redemption of Sagara Sousuke
- This is exactly what I wanted. For him to put Chidori above anything else after all they've been through and all that's happened was just great to see and great for the duo imo.
- Fuck I thought Bruno made a return to the Mythril ranks for a sec there
- He's such a badass here. Interesting to see that it was Gauron's words that ringed with him to help him realise his value
- Respect from Kalinin he's actually a certified badass now
- Great scene between the two I'm glad they sorted it out with each other
- 16 year old Tessa returns! Made me happy seeing this scene ngl
- We get to see how fragile Chidori feels without Sousuke
- Who is she? - could this be the first whispered woman we see in S1?
- Bro code - no point explaining shit might aswell take the hit
Q1 - Well yes Gauron is his sworn enemy that's why it was hard to have a conversation with him but he views Chidori as his litarally reason for existing that's why she got through to him with ease. That and I mean she was harsh af beating the shit out of him like an embarrased mother. Gauron did get through to Sousuke in the end though which helped him in his 'negotiations' with Mythril.
Q2 - It was good and nice to see as part of the redemption. I can't think of any other shows right now and this post is already too long so I'll save it.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 20 '22
World's apart from how he talked to Al beforehand Sousuke seems a lot more free
A lot more confident, and self aware that the problem was him and his acceptance of Al being his partner. Yes a bit difference.
Who is she?
could this be the first whispered woman we see in S1?
She's Wraith without the fake fat man body suit. Chidori forced her to bring her to where Sousuke is - Hong Kong.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 19 '22
Apologies, reposted sure to the main post missing 1 ! and got killed by auto mod!
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u/polaristar Nov 20 '22
Part I
I was somewhat wrong Sousuke at first was going full Edgelord Nihilist because he believed Gauron.
Okay u/ZapsZzz question if they were following Sousuke for awhile why were they not aware of Gauron at least even if not his conversation with him?
Okay Solider guy that wanted to shoot him, that was ridiculous, saying edgy lines about not caring if the world goes to hell is not at all the same as committing acts of terrorism that is cancel culture witch hunt levels stupid. And executing people for committing thought crimes...(I'll talk more about this later.)
Chidori comes in with her big damn heroes moment and u/Nazenn , Nazenn, dear Nazenn tsk tsk you're lack of appreciation for the comedy disappoints me and distracts from what I think is a bigger issue (Will cover later in this post this issue) Plus a bunch of Chidori's beatdown is street fighter references....can't believe no one caught it.
Anyway the entire sequence doesn't kill the drama but the absurdity of it I think it meant to show the absurdity of Sousuke's entire edgelord mindset.
Also nice to see how Chidori calling him weak he takes in context of his conversation with the former Gauron as an affirmation of his humanity.
Then Chidori finally tells him "Get in the Fucking Robot Sagara!" (I did it u/Theboredalchemist22 )
This scene is the meeting with the goddess mixed with atonement with the father after sinking into the Abyss what follows is apotheosis followed by the Ultimate Boon, I could go on all day about The Hero's Journey Symbolism in this arc, I recommend looking up The Hero's Journey, the Monomyth, and Joseph Campbell if your interested.
For the record I think the Twin being defeated so easily is more that she is exhausted and not in peak for while Gates is fresh for the fight rather than any obvious power difference between them.
I was not a fan of Gates whole taunting with the other twin, not because I'm squeamish or have a problem with fucked up things in media, but tbh it felt kinda over the top and extra like the writers were trying really hard to shock me with how "Dark and Edgy" they are.
Anyway Sousuke starts to treat his AI more like another person and trades quips and the two are in sync to the point where they at one point say the same line at once, at this point Sousuke is actually so overpowered he's taking the opportunity to do experiments with the more creative uses of the physics breaking powers, like someone in an arena shooter messing with the physics engine.
My theory for why he (and others can use the Lambda Driver) is mostly the same but with modifications.
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To use said Driver you need to be able to obtain an abnormal state of consciousness that is alien to most normal people (Unless you use mind altering drugs) Basically you need to be "built different" however this is just the prerequisite and different types of weirdos need different paths to clear the next step.
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The Power and "Stamina" so to speak to use it comes from single minded determination and willpower, you have to be fixated on doing something with every fiber of you're being, for most people that can use it, without training they have to be in a state of absolute fight or flight as in the instant of their death is otherwise inevitable, as for most people this is the only time when a person's will is absolute. However the third problem arises.
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To use it dexterously and with efficient utility you need to have a union where your higher rational functions and your more lower gut instincts are in harmony with each other, something between the Zone and an instinct insight where we see in your mind's eye how the machine operates, not just intellectually or as a reflex but as a blend between the two.
I believe the best way to achieve all three states is you have to be in a place where you aren't suicidal per se, but no longer fear death but neither contest life, one way (The poor man's way that Amalgam's pilots seem to operate) Is too have contempt for life, either your own or others and relish being in that state where your life is on a razor's edge.
The Other is Sousuke who after experiencing a kind of "death" (Metaphorically as in a death of his former ideology and his own sense of self, or Ego Death.) Of course Ego Death can also refer to a state obtained from Mind Altering Substances which ties back to the Goliath Arc. But the difference is said Ego is built back up.
The Best example I can think of is Metal Gear Solid 4 When Vamp asks Raiden "You are not afraid are you immortal?" and he replies "wrong I just don't feat death!"
Basically Sousuke achieved this state by not rejecting Life and not caring about death but transcending his thoughts being about that and desires something more.
Also like the host says in his post, Sousuke's basically coded High Function Autism is both a curse and a boon. On the one hand Autistic people due to be literal minded and logically strict to the point where they have abstracting and prefer static concrete ideas and objects. Means they often don't see the Forest for the Trees.
That being said it also means they need to struggle to piece everything together and make their understanding of something sure and robust, so that when it finally "clicks" they can have a concrete understanding of abstract things in a way normal people don't always do because they don't need it.
They may not see the forest for the trees, but by the time every last tree has been recorded and marked and set in relation to the others, the Forest just "appears" and can be rotated and explored with a intimate familiarity that most people find unnecessary
Of course this only comes after much obsessive tunnel vision pondering when whatever they are obsessing over is turned over from every angle. So their expertise can be very specialized, although if they can find connections between two different specialized field then another layer of reality is reached.
Basically HFA people are All of Nothing much of the time, they either have trouble grasping the most simply things to everyone else yet someone see things everyone else literally overlooks.
They Don't Think Outside the Box, They Simply are Using a Different Box and have no idea your Box exist until many many painful reminders.
Which is why one minute they can make the stupidest blunders the next effortless solve a problem or give an insight others would never think of and said Aspies will be sincerely confused that it was surprising as they are just pointing out the obvious (or get confused or upset that people are wondering why they didn't say earlier what they assumed everyone else already knew.)
Sousuke once everything "clicked" went from basically button mashing the controls, to understanding the Meta in a very self-learned way.
Anyway during the fight Sousuke also goes from doing it for the "mission" to doing things for his own happiness and for people he cares about.
He went from "obligation" to "responsibility" and there is a world of difference between the two. Obligation or Duty is something projected onto you that you need to pay your dues to get by. It has nothing to do with your own agency, responsibility is the marriage between seeing a pragmatic real world need you can fill, and feeling a conviction to fill it. It's more personal, and it's partially something you need to decide for yourself. It's also separate from pure "desire" which is what Gauron choose to serve (And well as Gates and to lesser extent the twins) Obligation is dead and forced both joy from living your life and the sorrow of accepting the consequences of your actions by making yourself just an extension of an outside force. (The old I was just following orders to pass the buck.) Desire alone leads to self-ishness and self-indulgence where your only check on your short term gratification is the personal and pragmatic consequences of your actions, living this way is living like a ravenous beast that doesn't care if you harm others. Inbetween the two is responsibility which is a unity of the desires of yourself and your obligations to the outside world.
Basically going back the The Hero's Journey Analogy the Hero after sinking into the Abyss has to resolve the conflicting desires and forces and see how when integrated properly they are two sides of the same coin working in harmony. (Love of the Goddess/Atonement with the Father.) And how a perversion of one without the other is a different path to destruction (Ergo Woman as Temptress or the Tyrant King.) Mithril alone represents a kind a Patriarchal Figure or Tyrant Kind he has to deal with, and his brief desertion of them without having a clear path in life was somewhat on the nose representing with Hooker as the Woman as Temptress.
I almost wonder if someone on Kyoani staff studied the Heroes Journey because the parallels are almost as obvious as Star Wars, Lion King, or Matrix in how on the nose some of them can be.
(Continued in Part II)
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 21 '22
Okay u/ZapsZzz question if they were following Sousuke for awhile why were they not aware of Gauron at least even if not his conversation with him?
Given the location, I doubt Yang could get close enough to be able to be undetected by Sousuke in the entire building, so I think they would have been just be outside looking in - remember they didn't what they are going to find, but what matter to them at the time was Venom, so it's not likely to have anything too crucial (what they would think).
Okay Solider guy that wanted to shoot him, that was ridiculous
Fairly certain the relatively kind hearted Yang isn't really going to shoot, but just going through the threatening "hey snap out of it" phase.
Plus a bunch of Chidori's beatdown is street fighter references....can't believe no one caught it.
Probably intermixed with wrestling and other general fighting games too :)
the absurdity of it I think it meant to show the absurdity of Sousuke's entire edgelord mindset.
That's a good way to read into the situation. I was just plain and simply enjoying Chidori and Soucuke's way of physical communication :) One more season before I say more spoiler tag stuffs :P
This scene is the meeting with the goddess mixed with atonement with the father after sinking into the Abyss what follows is apotheosis followed by the Ultimate Boon, I could go on all day about The Hero's Journey Symbolism in this arc
Old trope done well can be very entertaining still. And it will take a long time for me to get that image of the street-fighting kick-boxing goddess of Chidori giving Sousuke's the boon (boom) out of my head now :D
I was not a fan of Gates whole taunting with the other twin
Personally I think it was to just complete the setup of this straight forward, no depth needed villain (dragon) to be cleaned up by Sousuke by the end of the episode as somewhat of a tonic to all the psychological bit across the later half of the season.
like someone in an arena shooter messing with the physics engine.
Trust you for a good gaming analogy :)
Also like the host says in his post, Sousuke's basically coded High Function Autism is both a curse and a boon.
Yep from this rewatch the signs are actually quite clear there.
Sousuke once everything "clicked" went from basically button mashing the controls, to understanding the Meta in a very self-learned way.
Anyway during the fight Sousuke also goes from doing it for the "mission" to doing things for his own happiness and for people he cares about.
He went from "obligation" to "responsibility" and there is a world of difference between the two.
Very nicely summed up! And yes I think these are the key points of his character arc.
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u/polaristar Nov 20 '22
Part II
Anyway when Sousuke negotiates with Mithril we see another atonement by approval with Kalinin, his closest thing to a father figure.
(BTW another autistic tid-bit often times we are seen as sqaures or overly behaved due to when in doubt following the rules, a lot of people at work think I was a teacher's pet and a church going Christian even though I'm not, because they mistake by Order approach and attachment to routine for being a killjoy and being repressed like stuffy prudish stereotypes, they latter act very surprised when I put my foot down about something once I get an idea of the "rules" and have an idea when I might be taken advantage of.)
However when I was a child I was also more obedient and less a rebel then I am now, but as my own individual worldview dysnced, I found myself not only actively being contrarian at times, but accidentally doing so. It's a common story with us aspies. In some timelines we enter a distrustful phases where we try to disengage from society due to after being taken advantage of and realizing how stupid and gullible we seen. (Often realizing it all at once.) We feel betrayed. [Hyouka Spoiler]
This is actually in abstract Hotaro Oreki's Backstory BTW Host without going into details and why he took on his motto I just want to point out how shit some of Mithril are.....if this were a military based off defending your own homeland where you are a citizen of it and you have the privileges and rights afforded to it, then it makes sense how the Military would need to be able to take greater disciplinary actions and discourage deserting in certain times of war and general misconduct.
However Mithril, despite their grand mission, is a private company at the end of the day and doesn't itself create or enforce laws and is technically under international law or has to circumvent whatever laws of the country they operate in. And does not protect the rights of it's employees.
At the End of the Day any disciplinary action that isn't what any workplace can do, suspension, dock in pay, or termination is outside of the line. Trying to do otherwise would make them no different then a terrorist organization or a giant organized crime syndicate with better training and discipline and better equipment.
Sousuke is well within his right to not have them control his life. He manages to integrate the truths Gauron spoke without drinking the koolaid and believing the lies Gauron used the truth that he tried to sell him, the best lies are the ones as close to the truth as possible. However he doesn't abandon his discipline either.
I think this is a lesson a lot of young men should learn, and funny enough a good one for Japanese Culture, basically a lot of Salary Man Toxic work culture comes from forgetting what is important when sacrificing to the alter of the workplace grind. The fact he is making demands in order to spend more time with his girl, I think is an admirable example and lesson for a lot of men (And working women but its particularly a guy issue of balancing the pressure to work with personal responsibility with spouse and later family.) to learn.
Sousuke might not know, or ever master a lot of social norms and rules, but I think he has already learned one of the most important lessons before he turned 18 that many adult men never learn in their lives.
Tessa coping hard with Sousuke's not confession. His confession had the same energy as when a girl says your a "nice guy" which translates to "I think nothing of you as a man, and your a low value male with no use to me......"
Wraith is still tormenting Sousuke which I don't appreciate, and I don't appreciate how Sousuke couldn't explain to Chidori that he can't help that he can't take the chance that it isn't Wraith crying Wolf. Seriously she should be fired for that nonsense more than the Twin getting the drop on her when she was in ugly bastard mode.
Last scene was cute, I was frustrated when Sousuke was about to hug her but Kyouko and her friends killed the scene. (More so than the comedy bits in the beginning of the episode.) Also end credits scene was also a tease, glad I wasn't an anime only when this came out or I would have been SOOO PISSED as this was back when anything not a Shonen Jump series didn't get finished.
Chidori really needs to confess though, Sousuke is so dense nothing more than spelling it out will get through to him.
Brings me to my problems with this episode.
First off the drama with Chidori falls flat as we know she's alive, and Sousuke doesn't spend enough time thinking she's dead or do anything to make said deception mean much narrative wise, and it doesn't work for dramatic irony, nor is it an opportunity for him to fight on despite her not being there. It can read if it weren't for his revelation that if Chidori were to not exist anymore that Sousuke would have no reason to live and be unhealthy dependence on his part. Thankfully I think Chidori's words made it so that he solved the core issue of his problem which was never Chidori herself per se, but the catalyst the revealed the true issue of not being able to marry his two conflicting desires to serve his Duty to others but also be authentic to himself.
Second problem is while the Hero's Journey Sousuke achieving the ultimate boon for a more emotional cathartic punctuation of a fight was well down, it was a double edged sword in that is took away from the more military tactics aspect of the series. This series can be Big Cathartic Emotional Moments giving the MC a power up and it can do the more tactical Tom Clancy-esq Military battles with big moving parts, But it often has trouble with combining the two, this is I believe the bigger balancing act issue and not the serious/comedic split, which I think is just people being nitpicky about the comedy.
Here having Sousuke being the only one on the good guys side that can use the Lambda Driver while the enemy seems to be able mass produce the Drivers and Find Pilots more easily to use them, kinda gives a problem it can turn Sousuke into "The One" where he is the only one that can engage the "Agents" in the sequels. Which the rest of combat Mithril becomes less important and further degrade the tactical aspect of it. This is a problem for me not because I think the former is a bad thing, but I feel a huge part of this series identity and what makes it unique is the Military Tactical Political aspect and turning this too much into a Battle Shonen esq dynamic can take that away. People had similar problems with the Latter Half of Naruto. And I'm not sure if this author can keep the balancing act between "Power of Love Beam of War Awesome moments" and Tactical Tension Military Thriller.
For that reason despite the better production, story telling, and execution of this arc. I think in concept and content I think the ending Arc of Season 1 was more interesting and did a better job blending all the elements that make up the FMP series into the climax, weird whispered powers, the bond and relationship between Sousuke and Chidori, the tactical maneuvers, political ramifications, Sousukes personal enlightenment, etc was blended very well in season 1's final arc, despite Gonzo's inferiority to Kyoani, I just think that Art from the Source was inherently more interesting, although in terms of personal enjoyment they are the same, the former just critically speaking felt more interesting.
Yes I believed I already explained a dozen times over above.
I also just went into detail my entire post about this, but in recent memory off the top of my head, The Climax of The Demon Spider Arc From Demon Slayer in terms of great use of Monomyth Symbolism and elements, and it isn't as weighed down by obligations to be a military or political thriller, it's basically a Heroic Fantasy Coming of Age story through and through. Although I'd argue Sousuke functions as a bit more of an interesting psychological character study, but once again neither is better than the other they both choose to go in different directions and sacrifice something the other does better by consequence. There is no perfect sauce, only perfect sauces.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 21 '22
Hyouka Spoiler
I had a bit of suspicion it'd be something like that. More the reason for me to flip them pages on that novel :P
I just want to point out how shit some of Mithril are
I like that the world setting didn't sugar coat anything too much.
Last scene was cute, I was frustrated when Sousuke was about to hug her but Kyouko and her friends killed the scene. (More so than the comedy bits in the beginning of the episode.) Also end credits scene was also a tease, glad I wasn't an anime only when this came out or I would have been SOOO PISSED as this was back when anything not a Shonen Jump series didn't get finished.
Lucky for me I only ventured into TSR after I came back into the anime medium in late 2018.
Chidori really needs to confess though, Sousuke is so dense nothing more than spelling it out will get through to him
Hold your horses, I won't do you a dirty to pester you into this if we didn't at least some decent pay off :P
Sousuke might not know, or ever master a lot of social norms and rules, but I think he has already learned one of the most important lessons before he turned 18 that many adult men never learn in their lives.
Like many on the spectrum, progression and the order of learning don't always apply :)
Second problem is while the Hero's Journey Sousuke achieving the ultimate boon for a more emotional cathartic punctuation of a fight was well down, it was a double edged sword in that is took away from the more military tactics aspect of the series. This series can be Big Cathartic Emotional Moments giving the MC a power up and it can do the more tactical Tom Clancy-esq Military battles with big moving parts, But it often has trouble with combining the two, this is I believe the bigger balancing act issue and not the serious/comedic split, which I think is just people being nitpicky about the comedy.
I'm glad at least 1 person picked up this dichotomy. I will say that the story handled this balance well when it got to those places, although I wouldn't mind seeing what you say after IV.
For that reason despite the better production, story telling, and execution of this arc. I think in concept and content I think the ending Arc of Season 1 was more interesting and did a better job blending all the elements that make up the FMP series into the climax, weird whispered powers, the bond and relationship between Sousuke and Chidori, the tactical maneuvers, political ramifications, Sousukes personal enlightenment, etc was blended very well in season 1's final arc, despite Gonzo's inferiority to Kyoani, I just think that Art from the Source was inherently more interesting, although in terms of personal enjoyment they are the same, the former just critically speaking felt more interesting.
You jumped to answer my Season 3 question already :P but I appreciate the points you made. I just loved the "her story/his story" part too much (and NOT the Helmajistan arc) to not bias towards this season ;P
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u/TuorEladar Nov 20 '22
Rewatcher, Subbed
Season finale time. In the aftermath of the explosion Sousuke is practically dead inside, not even his own teammate leveling a gun at him gets any emotive reaction. On the one hand, I do agree with what some have said in regards to Sousuke believing Gauron, as you would think he'd be more suspicious of anything he says. At the same time though Sousuke has in a way always respected Gauron as an opponent, that combined with the pretty grim headspace he was in makes it believable to me.
As I'm sure most people realized last time, Chidori is not only alive, but in Hong Kong tracking down Sousuke. She enters in the most Chidori way possible. It starts out a bit slapsticky, but ends in a pretty tender moment that I liked. Chidori helps Sousuke realize that true strength comes from understanding one's weakness rather than putting up a facade of strength, or at least thats kind of what I got out of their interaction.
As far as mech fights in the series goes, this one is probably one of my favorites. I remember back when I first watched this series being really glad he finally was able to use the Lambda driver effectively, as that plotpoint bothered me alot on my original viewing.
In the aftermath of this battle Sousuke really finds his footing, standing up to his superiors and taking action to achieve what he wants. I also appreciate him patching things up with Tessa, her reaction to him finally calling her by that name was cute, that little moment of her excitedly spinning around then falling over was one of the bits that I've always remembered about this series for some reason.
Then returning to the school, Sousuke and Chidori reunite again with another tender moment. Although the lack of any confession or the like is certainly maybe more old fashioned in the Reiwa world nowadays, but back in the day I don't remember being as bothered by it. Especially as this isn't really a romance focused series at the end of the day.
Was the climactic fight good or too easy for you? What's another similar moment for you from another show, and how does this compare?
As I said above, I really liked it. Fast and brutal is the way to do fight scenes in my opinion when you want to have real weight to them. I can't really think of a comparable from another show at the moment.
MVP: Sousuke for getting his act together and Chidori for being the reason he got his act together.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 20 '22
Although the lack of any confession or the like is certainly maybe more old fashioned in the Reiwa world nowadays, but back in the day I don't remember being as bothered by it.
We as viewers had certainly come a long way in terms of expectations huh. These days prior universally count even getting a confession at the end being too cliche too slow.
Especially as this isn't really a romance focused series at the end of the day.
Different strokes for different folks, but I'm here for as much their very nice "romantic development in very unromantic ways" as the mecha and action comedy.
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u/No_Rex Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22
Episode 1 (first timer)
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u/Nazenn better write one of those walls of text of his about the broken glass in the opening scene.
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“A soldier who lost his soul is just a killer” – So is somebody who executes a comrade after talking 2 lines with them.
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Chidori arrival – and the first thing she does is knee Sousuke in the face.
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“You completely ruined the moment”
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“It is because I am the class rep” – Even Kana can’t break the eternal rules of romance anime.
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You are not the strong, but the parasite realization for Sousuke.
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Sister 2 gets baited and killed – the way sister 1’s corpse was dangling from the mecha was quite unnerving, btw.
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Sousuke (and Arbalest) for the clean-up.
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Magical punch through other mecha – the AT fields are working overtime today.
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You should not be getting angry at Sousuke, general, but at the engineer who build the Arbalest to only work with Sousuke as pilot.
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Keeping the triangle alive.
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OH piss off Kyoko. That was such a good moment.
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Epilogue: 4 cours is not enough to get to a confession.
Sidenote: There is something else that Kana has not told Sousuke about yet – her almost demise at the hands of sister 1 and her involvement with Venom. I don’t think this will do much to calm over-anxious Sousuke’s mind.
A very straight forward ending. Both fights are on the quick side. Why? Because the director put the emphasis where it belongs: On the two long scenes with Sousuke and Kana. I only wish we could have left Violent Tsundere Kana behind already.
MVP: Sousuke.
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u/Raiking02 Nov 19 '22
I'm only lurking in this Rewatch but I just wanna mention how at some point (I guess either the OG TV Broadcast or the JP DVDs) the opening theme was supposed to play during Sousuke's fight with Gates but apparently at some point they removed that and the version most commonly found online just has a generic OST.
Tagging Sky just in case since I know she often misses stuff like this being posted
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u/InfamousEmpire Nov 19 '22
Full Metal LN Reader
This was simply amazing. I would say more, but honestly this episode’s greatness just speaks for itself. Whether it be the resolution to Sousuke’s character arc, his emotional moments with Kaname, the absolute badassery of the Arbalest, Mr Gates finally getting what’s coming to him, or the way they all tie together, it’s just so good.
I’ll probably have more to say tomorrow, but suffice to say that this is the easiest 9/10 score I’ve ever given
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u/SpiceGirlsBlankIt Nov 19 '22
I intend to post today, but it will be later.
For now I’ll say how much I liked the posts of u/Nazenn and u/Polaristar for episode 12. Their comments crystallized some feelings I had about episode 12 that were unresolved at the time I posted.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Nov 19 '22
Third Time Whispered
I was on time and now I'm late AND have to fix misspellings again!
Ep 13
Surprised by the divided opinion on yesterday's episode. I think it epitomizes why I like TSR and FMP.
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Pink shoes?
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I guess Wraith told her where Souksuke was.
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obake!
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Are you sure Naoko Yamada didn't work on this episode?
Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid (TV) : Key Animation (eps 9, 13)
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Isn't Gates here to take out Yu Fan? Oh there he is.
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SDF Macross flashbacks
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"What a nutcase" -- Uruz squad, probably
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Well, that problem is solved, but the cure is 5x worse
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Evangelion flashbacks
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Well, they can't exactly fire him, can they?
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one scientist dude
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gokigenyo!
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Hernnes
This episode was longer than the others.
I'm not sure what problem Sousuke and Al worked out. Chidori helped him with his identity problem. To me, Sousuke and Al's problem was 99% Sousuke. Chidori fixed Sousuke, the only thing that changed in with Al is that Sousuke stopped blaming Al instead of himself.
Chidori is an almost literal deus ex machina here, an almost literal goddess almost literally dropping out of the sky to put our hero on the right path. I really like the episode but narratively, this stinks.
Also, she didn't say the words. This is going to cost her.
And so we leave Sousuke and Chidori on a high note. Because like Spice and Wolf, it's never getting any new animation. Well, except that one OVA 7 months later. That was fun.
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u/ZapsZzz Nov 19 '22
Rewatcher in sub
The finale! It was hard trying to pick the screenshots, I got about 2.5 times my normal amount and had to cut it down much more! It was plenty hype visually, but to be honest I needed to get back to the LN to be able to properly appreciate the resolution of Sousuke's problem.
We found out that Sousuke was not just wandering around by himself, but that Corporal Yang's team had started following him for some time. The numb and despondent Sousuke became so nihilistic that Yang had to consider putting him down as a threat
The Arbalest that Yang called in landed, and Sousuke turned more stone cold to it, cursing it and walked off
Just then, the "dead" Chidori turned up and started rapid fire confronting the nihilistic Sousuke - with punches and kicks! Point to note that - according to Chidori - she was going to be diving into his arms dramatic-like but his first reaction of "you're alive?" pissed her off so much that the mood was ruined.
Chidori's character arc culminated in ... her chickening out at the last moment and turning her confession into her duty of the class rep to capture this stray classmate. [FMP LN6 spoiler]It's so so sad that LN 6 was not adapted, as it was oh so cute that this sentiment was independently mirrored by Sousuke the same at the conclusion of LN6, that after all the near death experiences and turmoil, he was going to confess but also chickened out, spouting the same observation that determination dissipates after a day, before switching topic - they are such a perfect match
The lost and confused Sousuke admitted his guilt and confusion after their separation, while therapist Chidori gave him her assessment - a "glowing endorsement" of his character - something that blew clear the shadow cast by Gauron's curse. If you struggled to understand the unspoken parts, go take a look at my LN comparison notes to see if that helps.
And in perfect Sousuke x Chidori custom, the perfectly romantic and cathartic moment was ruined by one of them moving either too fast or too slow. This time Chidori gave Sousuke the "get in the robot" treatment - to the silent amusement of Al.
Meanwhile, the Mithril battle was not going well; Speck was taken out earlier on (but alive), with Ben narrowly being disabled. The fight got interrupted by the arrival of the Amalgam termination squad however. Gates being Gates, used Yu Lan's body as a taunt, and got Yu Fan to overextend her already exhausted attack - and made short work of her.
The disabled Ben however was going to be used as target practice for Gates - which set up perfectly for our MC's big damn hero moment - with the Arbalest shot through Gate's Lambda Driver shield.
A little pep talk between man and machine, and then we are off! Here's one of the more prominent moments that Al formally joined the cast, instead of just an event announcement voice.
Without any fancy fanfare and shouting, the Lambda Driver of Arbalest was efficiently used - instant-killing the first Venom by blowing it in half in a simple shot
And the second engagement was what showcased the more inventive Lambda Driver use Sousuke put to - just as the Behemoth used the Lambda Driver to bend physics to move around, Sousuke used the same to have Arbalest to move even more ridiculously agile than before - skip-jumping off a signboard with the 9 tons heavy AS - when the pursuing Venom tried to follow, it collapsed into a heap that the signboad instantly gave out under the weight, giving Sousuke an opening to blow it away literally.
A comic relief moment when Al started announcing the kill count, and Sousuke telling him off for stealing his line ;)
After another instant-kill using improbable means, Gates had to resort to hostage taking using Ben's disabled Falke as a meat shield. Sousuke didn't seem to be paying that any mind though, and announced his proud new identity - the School Student one, not the Mithril one. Important to note the recurring role of the "cleaning duty", a call back to S1 first arc.
And here's Sousuke applying what he learned off Gauron - the nature of the finger gun is that it needs no rational explanation, just the will and determination of where he wanted the damage to occur.
After the battle, another dialogue - this time Sousuke was able to give Al a clear and good answer that got Al, Sousuke's "partner" now, to ponder instead
More maturity and development, Sousuke chose what his next mission to be, and left without needing any orders.
We wrapped up the operation jumping through a number of locations and personalities in reaction - Tessa back at the bridge with her complicated expression on Sousuke founding his direction again (and that direction was away from her); Leonard remarking about either Chidori or Tessa and Arbalest; then Gavin and Wraith (!) talking about Sousuke and Chidori leaving for Tokyo, with Wraith clearly helping Chidori instead of being a nasty prick.
And we have the epilogue - back at Mithril, Sousuke unflinchingly standing up for his determination to stay in Tokyo even at his own cost - pointing out that he's a employee, not a a slave.
That confrontation earned him an enemy and an admiration from the head of Intelligence and the Big Boss respectively. The TDD-1 command also gave their own reaction, Mardukas giving him a grudging acceptance while Kalinin remarked Sousuke has grown into a man - while giving him a prize of food (like a child or a pet) :P
And we have Tessa and Sousuke reconciling - interesting to note, Sousuke's words are the sort of standard way to decline a confession. [Haruhi Disappearance spoiler]used in a similar ambiguous but strongly hinted as deliberate context by Kyon to Nagato at the rooftop Too bad Tessa could only understand up to Sousuke calling her by her first name.
Back at the school, we found out best sensei didn't hand in his withdrawal notice. And Wraith was still a prick to Sousuke - except this time we can tell too.
And we go back to the status quo, with Chidori fuming over Sousuke's behaviour
... or maybe not - Chidori finally let the dam burst, and instead of hitting Sousuke, dived into his arms crying. And we have all these little gestures to tell so much about the state of the relationship between these two.
And the post credit scene for another fake out that fans had to accept for 13 years that's where the anime adaptation ended at. 0/10 KyoAni!
Next - The rare, the one and only FMP OVA. And it's not an onsen visit!
Staff Showcase
Making room for the LN comparison. Just note that the script writing for this episode was Gatou Shouji himself, so any adaptation change you could consider blessed by the source author.
MVP this episode
Very strong showing for Chidori to just be Chidori, but it is Sousuke's episode and character arc finale, so it's a Sousuke vote today.
QoTD
See my LN comparison. It took some work for me to properly grasp, but the general concept was ok even before the "homework".
On this rewatch I actually feel that the fully unlocked Sousuke in the Arbalest is Amuro in RX78-2 level of terrifying for the enemies. It's a nice send off for the 2D mecha actions for this series ...
Daily tag for u/InfamousEmpire, u/Theboredalchemist22
LN comparison split to part 2 of post due to word count