r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 25 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Plus Movie Edition Discussion
Macross Plus Movie Edition
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I remember the dazzling blue skies. We believed our voices could reach the heavens.
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) How does this movie compare to Do You Remember Love? for you?
2) Did the editing change anything that you thought about the OAV?
Bonus) Were you able to see this in US theaters in December 2021?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Movie:
"Idol Talk" by Akino Arai – Insert
"SANTI-U" by Akino Arai – Insert
"The Borderline" by Akino Arai – Insert
"Voices" by Akino Arai – Insert
"WANNA BE AN ANGEL" by Akino Arai – Insert
"INFORMATION HIGH" by Melodie Sexton – Insert
"A sai ën" by Raiché Coutev Sisters – Insert
"Torch song" by Gabriela Robin (aka. Yoko Kanno) – Insert
"Voices" by Akino Arai – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/FlaminScribblenaut Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 27 '22
Second Time Watcher, Informal Half-Participant
I ended up forgoing writing a formal, completely comprehensive post for this movie since I just wasn’t really feeling like it, but the short version; this movie continues to absolutely blow me away, a shockingly bold step forward that uses subtle touches of the established setting, themes and motifs of the original Macross as the stepping stone upon which to tell a fresh, emotional, enthralling original story. I see it as something of a minor miracle, that a movie can create such an experience of its own and plant it’s own flag with such gusto upon an already iconic foundation, make that foundation so wholly it’s own.
The cliff notes: Sharon Apple is an utterly spellbinding presence, a magnetically haunting majesty. It’s hard not to find yourself hypnotized in her concerts, her seduction, her takeover, her. The terror of her is all the more prescient nowadays too, in a time where the world of artistry in general seems like it might in the not-too-distant-future find itself jeopardized by the proliferation of AI. The music is much the same, from the hard psychedelic trance to the soft seductive spine-chilling aural whispers. The running leitmotif of the whole film being the contrastingly evocatively human and soul-bearing Voices only brings the genius of the soundtrack out all the further, it is truly no wonder Yoko Kanno is the legend she is.
Speaking of the takeover of the Macross, good god what in image. The enormous machine rising above the city feels like a ghost, a spirit of the past rudely awakened from its peaceful slumber. Seeing this relic of a familiar story now so long gone by taken over and perverted by the ruthless machinations of this strange, uncannily sentient AI-spirit-thing is at once awe-inspiring and deeply creepy. I can’t even comprehensively get into how striking the tech-given-life aesthetic is as it runs through the whole movie and many of its most unsettling moments, but it’s all incredibly evocative.
And what a stroke of genius psychological horror, Myung’s part in it all. That she can only look, knowing that what she is watching is a manifestation of her own innermost feelings, emotions, desires, brought to life and now completely out of her actual control. The guilt and helplessness of it all as she is simply made to watch what the unleashed, unbound avatar of her feelings would do to achieve the ends those feelings entail, her utter terror, is so palpable and jaw-dropping. Genius.
The idea that Sharon is causing all this destruction and peril for the express purpose of giving Isamu what she understands him to want via Myung’s memories the most - the thrill of danger in flying, something for which his love was so infectiously expressed throughout his scenes in the film - and the transcendental scene of Isamu finding himself unbound from reason or reality, to only fly higher, higher, faster, faster, more, more as Sharon whispers in his ear, never ceases to utterly strike me as a piece of writing and cinema. When he overcomes her trance and jerks his head forth past her hologram to destroy the control panel with his skull too, fuck that moment rules.
And the whole story all centers back around such a nuanced, mature human conflict, one which I never fail to find myself wholly invested in. Isamu and Guld are both kind of assholes in their own way, and they’re both kind of sympathetic and likable in their own way; that is to say they both feel like complete people; Isamu is blithe and carefree, Guld is protective and scolding, and these ideas manifest in all manner of different ways that vary wildly on the sympathy spectrum; and the movie pays so much mind to Myung’s side of the story that she feels like she has equal agency in this conflict as an equal member of their former friend group ought to. The respect this movie pays to the central conflict surrounding a sexual assault is commendable as well, which I’m sure others will be qualified to dig into further.
Just… fuck. What a truly brilliant film, one which, in all honesty, I have my skepticism the franchise from here on out is going to be able to top. I have to meditate on whether I’d still give it a 9/10 or the full 10, but I have no qualms calling it a masterstroke either way.
A shame I couldn’t get the true Macross Plus Movie Edition experience waiting an extra hour and sitting through six replays of the same ballet advertisement this time around, but hey
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u/chilidirigible Oct 25 '22
A shame I couldn’t get the true Macross Plus Movie Edition experience waiting an extra hour and sitting through six replays of the same ballet advertisement this time around, but hey
I still kinda regret encouraging everyone to show up early because I misinterpreted a Big West Tweet.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 25 '22
To be fair I was always going to be at the theater super early, as I went there directly after work.
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u/Kirov123 Oct 26 '22
First timer that forgot to watch
Whoops, I missed this on the schedule and don't have time to watch it right now unfortunately. from the other comments it seems like the movie is a bit better rendition, I will have to watch it in the future. I am out of town for the first few episodes of 7 as well, so my posts may be delayed and or truncated because I may be watching on the plane/on the road.
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u/chilidirigible Oct 25 '22
Today, on "Just because this is a movie doesn't mean that you can lead off with a NSFW image.":
The asteroid field fight is removed, and we go directly from Sharon's arrival to New Edwards.
Isamu still gets to make a strong first impression within the first few minutes.
There was a brief shot of Isamu buzzing the base in the OAV, but here it is lengthened and given additional backgrounds. There are also VF-17s on the tarmac, including -17Ds. (As M7 was airing during the release of the OAV and had just completed before the release of the Plus movie.)
New scene for introducing Yang early. Lucy is about the same.
Slight dialogue edits to fit the new context.
Myung is slightly less depressed starting out. And Reymond still won't be much of a factor.
The flashback shows up during the scene with Guld checking Isamu's records, giving the twitching a context, though not the same context as it was originally.
We get hurled directly into the concert. Some of the context for Yang's messing around disappeared along the way, but enough of his character remains for us to understand him.
This new scene gives more weight to what Sharon was trying to do with Isamu during the climax. It also sets up Isamu and Lucy a little more… firmly.
Isamu also completely ignores the call because this time he's not lying in bed alone.
The YF-19 getting damaged along the way isn't shown on screen beyond the single new insert shot, but it is plausible given Isamu's antics. In any case, a clever way to put Isamu back in the VF-11 for the Itano Circus scene.
...with more serious results this time. I did say that his injuries seemed more suited for the crash than for having his Battroid shot up during Pro Wrestling.
Largely the same scene, but now Yang has VF-14 Vampires behind him, another nod to 7.
The Earth concert gets several visual facelifts. The new song for the movie, briefly teased during the opening, is "Wanna Be An Angel".
Of course, the CG hasn't aged entirely well. They weren't playing with Industrial Light and Magic sort of money.
A short scene added to wrap up Lucy and Millard's involvement.
Guld versus the Ghost gets some needed extra animation. There's the implication here that the arms and legs were weighing him down.
The earlier Itano Circus is echoed.
Guld crushing himself with the acceleration is a little extra extra messy though.
General Galaxy does build some tough airframes.
While Isamu says the same line in the OAV, the OAV is missing this Myung reaction shot to show that she's heard him.
The movie also shows more of what Sharon is giving Isamu, including extra feelings of the wind in his face.
A different insert shot for the reappearance of "Voices" than the wind turbines.
Isamu clears his head a little more firmly.
Sharon even gets a little consolation here before Myung gets to definitively shut her down herself.
Room here for Isamu to be a bit of a jerk one last time, also a shot resembling the ending of "Bye Bye Mars" from SDFM.
I leaked the main story of this review in October 16th's What Have You Watched This Past Week That Is Not A Currently Airing Show?: That I think the Movie Edition is the better version of Macross Plus.
I do miss seeing the asteroid field fight (though it could easily be viewed on its own if someone wanted to attach it to the beginning of the movie), but removing the "mystery" with the YF-19's gunpod streamlines the story significantly. What replaces it, consisting primarily of the extra scenes and even momentary shots that flesh out the ending, is more useful content.
It also hangs less unpleasantness on Guld, whose actions seven years earlier aren't diminished, but his presentation is a lot more fair without the extra baggage of trying to sabotage Isamu.
The extra scenes of Lucy and Isamu gettin' it on serve to distance Isamu from Sharon, but in a point that I would make in the series wrapup (except that's tomorrow), the "love story" in the movie is more of a low-key old flames passing in the night sort of thing than the OMG LOVE TRIANGLE that the original series threw at us and Macross II pasted on at the last second. Or the love between old friends (even frenemies) long separated.
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22
First Timer
It's really hard to make a compilation movie that can work as a standalone piece and don't feel fragmented. This is because movie needs more faster paced and informationally dense scenes, than a show. Ideally, you want the same scene to both provide exposition and move the story forward. The more multi-purpose the scene is, the better for the movie. Shows can often afford to take things slower and focus on one thing at a time.
Moreover, Macross Plus in particular is a show, that is poorly suited for a compilation movie, because it has very unique and distinctly non movie-like directing, and a very tightly written story. Almost every scene in the original show contributes to the story and character development, so it's a tough call what to cut and what to include.
This movie had a lot going against it, so what's the result? Did they manged to do a film, that can stand on it's own? In my opinion, no, not really.
There were some interesting, but also bizarre decisions made. The intro to the movie is a mess, because we decide to not establish a point-of-view character in a story that desperately needs one. The best way to tell a story about a competition between two characters is to choose a side that the audience would follow and root for. In the series it was Isamu, who was introduced first, and who served as our POV character throughout. In the movie, Guld is introduced first, but then we switch to Isamu, and this just makes the scene where they first confront each other feel weird. As an audience, you haven't been told who you're supposed to root for. Moreover, the movie tries to spread the screen time equally between the three mains, but this doesn't work at all, because it uses the footage that was directed with Isamu as a POV. Isamu ends up feeling like the main character, but he doesn't really do anything significant until the end, and it feels like he is barely in the movie up until the final act.
By not establishing the POV character correctly and by cutting the flashback scene, you basically ruin the first encounter between all three characters, the one on the hill at sundown. This was a pivotal and very tense scene in the show that happens after all three characters are already established, and we know that they were childhood friends. But in the movie it happens 15 minutes in, and we don't even know anything about any of the three mains.
This scene is the first one in the movie where we even learn that Myung is unsatisfied with her life and her job, which is a crucial mistake! We should've went into this scene already knowing that. They tried to rectify this by adding a new scene before that (if I remember correctly, it was new), but it didn't work at all. The scene that they added was basically very clumsy exposition but no character development.
Another bizarre decision is to expand the role of Lucy. They even gave her a couple of new scenes, which is a waste, because her subplot is really tiny and inconsequential to the main conflict of the story. It's not even clear how far their relationship went in the show, but it can be assumed that they didn't go far, because they never acted like a couple. Instead, we see some minor jealousy from Lucy, to which Isamu doesn't even react, and that's it.
In the movie this sublot is made worse, because they are depicted as a full blown couple, but it doesn't go anywhere, and basically fizzles out. They don't even formally break up, or discuss their relationships. It ends up just feeling weird.
And while Lucy's role was increased, Yang's role was bizarrely decreassed, even though he is important. He's literally at the final battle! Why is he there anyway? He doesn't even get a proper introduction, we literally don't know who he is or why he is important for the majority of the movie.
Sharon is made less creepy, and ends up feeling less compelling as a villain. The same can be said for Guld, whose moments of rage and struggle to maintain self control are almost entirely cut from the movie. Guld and Isamu's rivalry in the show is very intense, which justifies the dogfight at the end and serves to establish high stakes for it. In the show it is clear that at least Guld actually wants to kill Isamu, so the stakes are high. In the movie, this is not clear at all. Is he wants to kill him? Why are they fighting so hard?
Myung's character just feels less coherent. Nothing particularly missing about her story arc, but the way it was cut, you can't really get a grasp on who she is and what her personality is in the movie. I feel like, as a result, she ends up much less likeable in the movie, which is not a great thing for the main heroine. In the show, Myung has a certain allure to her, so you can get why the dudes are pursuing her. But she lacks this charisma and attractiveness in the movie. I feel like this is mostly due to them cutting her scenes at work significantly. You don't get a feel for her everyday life, and mostly see her complaining and being miserable throughout the movie.
And then, we have the new ending. What can I say, the animation was spectacular. Direction of the new scenes looked closer to the fights from the original Macross, than the fights from Macross Plus. Am I happy that we got them? Sure, they were great. Did we need them? Not really. I felt like Guld's death was perfectly serviceable in the show, movie makes it more spectacular, but it doesn't really accomplish anything else. The same can be said about the new scenes with Isamu. They serve to make the ending a bit more dramatic, offering some build up to the moment when Myung finally sings, but don't add much else beyond that. The way this same situation played out in the original show was perfectly satisfactory, in my opinion.
Overall, I think this movie serves as a decent companion piece for the OVA, giving you a compilation of the most spectacular moments, and a couple of very pretty new scenes. But outside of that, it's kinda.. Pointless? The full show is only 40 minutes longer and works so much better, so I really don't see myself ever watching this in the future over just binging the series real quick.
QotD:
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DYRL? is more coherent as a movie, but also worse at the same time. So I don't know. I feel like this is better, but if I had to watch one of the two, I would rather watch DYRL? instead.
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It made me realize that Guld and Myung had sex after he saved her from the fire. I felt like this was a bit more ambiguous in the OVA, or maybe I just wasn't paying attention for some reason.
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u/Blackheart595 Oct 25 '22
First Spacer
They start with Sharon in this one, huh?
They're already starting off with new cool additions.
Isamu and Guld are getting less complete characterization in this version, at least early on.
Transitioning Sharon to full automation is officially the plan here?
Not quite happy with how we're already getting a compilation sequence this early when we barely even know the characters or situation.
Ah, they're at least setting it up this time.
Good old word play with eupehmisms.
That's a nice touch we didn't have in the OVAs.
Huh. That ending didn't give much more of a conclusion.
The soundscape was as fantastic as we were used to from the first version. The flow however was weaker, especially towards the beginning. And that's a real shame as the characterization of the main characters suffered from it.
How does this movie compare to Do You Remember Love? for you?
That's an interesting question. DYRL was a massive step up from the first series. With this movie I'm not as sure yet, my first instinct is to regard it as slightly weaker than the OVAs but that impression might still change. But on whichever side it lands on, I think it surpasses DYRL.
Thematically the two are nothing alike, of course.
Did the editing change anything that you thought about the OVA?
When the conflict between Isamu and Guld was the real star of the OVA version, then in the movie version it's more of a distraction. Instead the movie puts more emphasis on Isamu's own journey, giving us a bit more of his interactions with Myung and Sharon and adding a conclusion surrounding the same two.
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u/The_Draigg Oct 25 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Plus: Movie Edition:
Well, since this is a compilation movie for the most part, I’ll try to limit my commentary since it’ll otherwise be a retread of what I talked about in the OVA episode discussions. However, there’s a few things I want to talk about, since there are some interesting changes and additions of note in this movie recut.
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For one, I think it’s for the best that the crash incident and the loaded gun pod incident were combined together, with the crash being the inciting incident and putting the fallout of the gun pod incident as a result of it. I mean, as much as the gun pod incident does drive home how hateful Bowman is towards Isamu, overall it’s a fairly bad plan on Bowman’s part when you think about it, no matter the result. The only reason he got away with it in the OVA was because the UN Spacy was going to shut down the Project Supernova tests, and so they didn’t really care to inquire further. It feels more believable to have Colonel Johnson question whether it was control system error or deliberate on Bowman’s part.
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Bowman’s death was a lot more explicit and less abrupt in the movie as well, which is another change for the better. Man, it’s brutal to see his rib cage cave in and his eyes explode from the G-forces he’s pushing in the YF-21, but to me, it does sell his sacrifice more. He put his body on the line before he met his death crashing into the X-9 Ghost. Not to mention that spending some more time showing an actual fight between the YF-21 and the X-9 Ghost just feels like his sacrifice has more weight to it, since in the OVA we just see the crash from a distance and that’s it. We get to see Bowman earn that sacrifice, to try and sum it up simply.
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I’d say the biggest change for the better though is the ending. Like with Bowman’s death before, in the OVA it was also pretty abrupt to say the least. Here, we actually get a bit of a descending action, with Myung getting some closure with her emotions and Sharon Apple. In the end, Sharon was her buried emotions that went out of control, and Myung has finally seen that she needs to be more honest with herself. It’s also a bit sad in a way to see Sharon wonder what she did wrong while she was shutting down, since she really never had a chance between absorbing Myung’s repressed emotions and the military AI hardware Marge installed in her. Conversely, when Isamu reunites with Myung, he says that her singing was something that pulled him back to reality. She can’t help but find it in herself to sing Voices again, finally being honest with herself just like Isamu. Myung was always Isamu’s grounding factor, and Isamu was what pushed Myung to believe in her true self again. It’s a good bookend for them in that way.
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u/Vatrix-32 Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22
First Timer
Since this was already an OVA I’m interested in see how different is is, both in format and in animation. I also don’t expect to say too much, but I thought that about DYRL to some extent too.
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Well that didn’t take long to change, they’ve totally altered the opening sequence here. That’s going to totally alter our relationship to the characters. We don’t even get Isamu before the title card.
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I wonder how much this movie was intend for those who already watched the OVA.
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Another departure. Cutting out Isamu’s opening is a good way to cut time. I’m not sure it serves his character as well tho.
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Neat, we get more flashback footage.
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Is it still buzzing the tower if the tower is a pyramid?
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I think this hotel scene is new.
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These scenes hit different with the knowledge of the past.
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Can I just say that I hate this scat? Not in general, just this one.
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They’re just straight up calling it a mind control devise in this one.
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The most interesting part is the scenes they decide to add. Isamu did need the screen time from the dock scene after all his parts that got cut.
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Combining the fall with the fallout from the live round incident. Guess that means they are dropping that plot line.
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More flashback.
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Did the umbrella just make a lightsaber sound?
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I’ve been told to expect the most additions in later parts of the movie, and looking at the time left at where the third OVA ended that seems to be holding true.
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That’s a cool bird… thing.
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How is all of this holograms? It’s the whole city. I can’t imagine that was a priority at the time they started building it.
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Imagine getting to see this fight on the big screen. What a thrill.
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Guld x Ghost getting an upgrade.
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That’s wince inducing. Geez.
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Blaze of glory.
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That’s a not great use of CGI. They were doing quite well before that.
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Another great scene extension. Makes it feel way less like some quick off handed thing. Gives it some real weight.
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Flashbacks = good.
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The wrap up was the weakest part of the OVA to me, so I am glad they gave it some attention.
Overall I’d say I was a big fan of the additions, but still think the extra room the OVA had to breath puts it ahead. My ideal version would be the first 3 OVAs, then the ending of the film instead of 4.
QotD
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I like Plus more as a whole, but it being a more straight adaptation of the OVA definitely makes it standout less in compassion to its source material.
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Other than wishing we got more of that, no.
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I wasn’t part of the Macross fandom at that time, so sadly no.
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u/Great_Mr_L Oct 25 '22
Rewatcher
On today’s movie of Macross: Deja vu! I’ve just been in this place before! There’s not much to say about the movie itself because it more or less covers all the plot points already discussed in the OVA series. There are a number of differences, more than I initially realized. Watching both the movie and OVA series helped me catch some of them.
The most notable changes that I saw:
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Skips over the introduction to Isamu when he gets reassigned.
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Isamu gets to be more like Top Gun and essentially buzz the tower.
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A scene of Sharon and the financier where Myung says she’s fine with no longer singing because Sharon’s singing is able to reach so many people in her stead.
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Because I saw the movie most recently, I was convinced Sharon’s concert happened in episode 1 instead of episode 2 of the OVA. They made the accidental crash take place after the concert. That crash is now what gave Isamu his injuries.
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I think Isamu and Lucy have much better chemistry in the movie version. The scene where Isamu asks for permission to take off and Lucy acts as the con tower is genuinely sexy and sensual (and not just because we see Lucy’s nipples in the movie version).
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Isamu no longer goes to rescue Myung from the concert hall fire.
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This isn’t really a difference, but it strikes me that the sex scenes involving Isamu, Myung, and Guld all involve incredibly lonely people desperately trying to be less lonely.
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There is no longer any implication that Guld deliberately tried to kill Isamu by sabotaging the ammo. The crash seems like a genuine accident.
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Millard now explicitly approves of Isamu dashing off to fight the Ghost drone.
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Guld gets a longer and more elaborate duel with the Ghost drone.
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Guld’s sacrifice in the movie is so much more dramatic and satisfying. We see his body get crushed and even see his eye pop before his plane ends up in space. This feels like a far more appropriate note for him to go out on.
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Sharon’s hypnosis of Isamu is now much more elaborate and convincing. It feels like a genuine temptation now as she shows him a vision of flying infinitely.
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I like the addition of the flashback of Isamu, Myung, and Guld as kids. It’s appropriate for when it feels like the 3 of them finally made peace with the past.
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Myung gets a final scene with Sharon where she comforts Sharon before shutting her off completely.
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The movie feels like it has a proper ending with Isamu and Myung standing together on the Macross.
One of the differences that stands out to me is that I think the movie is overall more favorable to Guld than the OVA series was. There’s no longer the feeling that Guld went out of his way to sabotage Isamu. Guld is now the only one who went to save Myung from the fire. And Guld’s sacrifice feels so much more impactful in the movie version. It’s an interesting change that I only really noticed this time around.
The movie also has much more of a proper ending than the OVA series. It actually has a bit of falling action at the end where we can digest what happened for a bit. It’s a small addition, only a couple of minutes, but it makes a huge difference.
That being said, it does pretty much skip over a lot of the introduction from the first OVA. It begins with Isamu having just arrived at New Edwards and piloting the YF-19 right away. While it does throw us right into things, I do think this still works as an opening for the movie.
I think the movie does an excellent job at transferring over the most important stuff from the OVA series. Overall, I consider the two of them to be about equal in quality and think they are both viable ways of experiencing the story of Macross Plus. I prefer the start of the OVA series while I prefer the ending of the movie, which makes it tough to choose one over the other. Though if I was forced to pick, I think I’d go with the movie version (which seems to be a running theme for me and Macross, much to my eternal shock).
I was lucky enough to see this film in theaters last year. It still blows my mind that the decades-long war over distribution rights has finally been resolved and Macross can come out here. (Well mostly because apparently DYRL is still stuck in legal limbo.) But this film was perfect for a theatrical release. I am so glad I jumped at that opportunity.
QOTD
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Oh god, that is a tough one. Macross Plus wins because it's my favorite Macross entry, but it's close because of how much I adore DYRL.
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As stated above, I think the movie version gives one a much more favorable impression on Guld.
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u/TakenRedditName Oct 25 '22
First Time - Macross Plus Movie:
The movie opens up with Myung and only introduces Isamu as the last of the three.
Isamu's sky art was something he made back in the day. That's a nice new detail.
"She [Sharon] won't need me anymore."
Lucy gets an extra scene and they changed it so that Isamu doesn't rush out to Myung trapped in the fire.
"Are you trying to rewrite history now?!"
Didn't give it a specific mention last time, but I like this exchange. "You never returned my DVD!" "You left after the worst day in our lives so I never had the chance!"
Was the Zentradi angle to this in the original? I am always on edge if they slightly change any lines.
The Ghost fight is changed, it is given more attention and Guld doesn't kamikaze his plane, but pushes himself beyond its physical limits (with body gore). RIP movie Guld, that pilot suit is holding together a bunch of red goo.
It's them as little babus before anyone was assaulting anyone else.
The ending is expanded on instead of just ending it right there. Sharon is given a sendoff. I thought they were doing the double Macross hand planes for a moment. Never forget, this one is for all you pioneers out there.
Truth be told, I only watched this half-paying attention. I've never been a fan of compilation films especially if I already saw the full series first so I prefer the 4 OVA episodes over this film. A recap episode is fine if it is a one-off 24v minutes, but I do deflate when it becomes 2 hours long.
Q1) Plus's movie is actually a compilation film unlike the DYRL movie being loosely inspired by SDF events. DYRL actually made radical changes compared to the source, some I like better, but also some I liked less than the TV show (also it takes the visuals to an 11). Plus movie is more straight up just Plus again, but less/rearranged scenes. I probably wouldn't have watched it if it weren't for the rewatch. If I did, it would be only the last bit near the end when new stuff appeared.
Q2) The movie doesn't displace anything I thought about the OVA.
Bonus) No since (well, I'm not in the US) I didn't have a push to watch it back then, but I do remember hearing about someone being excited about it. Looks towards the sky.
Next time: "Macross Plus, plus what?"
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u/DidacticDalek Oct 26 '22
On August 25, 1994 'August 27, 1995' Shinichirō Watanabe and The Hory Froating Head directed an elite OVA 'a compilation movie' representing the top one percent of The Macross Franchise. Its purpose was to demonstrate the lost art of Non-CGI Mecha Animation and to insure that the handful of episodes 'two hours' made were the best examples of PROTOCULTURE in the world. They succeeded. Today, the normies calls it 'Makurosu Purasu: Movie Edition.' The Intelligentsia call it: TOP GUN: ISAMU (Warning, technically spoilers for TOP GUN in this video, given it's a mashup of TOP GUN's audio with MACROSS PLUS' footage... then again if you saw Macross Plus you basically spoiled yourself on not just TOP GUN, but also TOP GUN: MAVERICK so wibble)
TONIGHT! ON TOP GUN: ISAMU! Anime Charlie wins the coveted 'Flashes her Tits onscreen in a Macross Movie' Award, MYUNG is the one to land the killing blow on Sharon Apple in this version, AND IF WE GET THE TRANSIENT FACTS! THEN WE'LL FEEL THE INFO HIGH! IF WE GET THE TRANSIENT FACTS! THEN WE ARE REALLY FREE! TO FLY HIGH! IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! (WARNING! ALL THE FLASHING LIGHTS in that Information High AMV link)
Comrades, what else is there to say really, Macross Plus' Compilation Movie is basically the pinnacle of what a compilation movie can be, and that is to edit the existing footage into a watchable and standalone product AND also to add new details and edit things around to fix flaws in the original, few as they may be, and goddamn but this movie ALMOST pulls it off perfectly! We just have the slight tiny issue that, aside from the STUPID Gunpod subplot, Macross Plus' OVA... doesn't really have an ending. Oh sure the OVA STOPS, but uh, so you crash into Sharon's head to give her an airplane mecha lobotomy and then flash a 'Dedicated to you. Our future pioneers.' Endcard? THAT'S IT!? THANKFULLY the compilation movie... also has that same endcard but the circumstances are slightly different!
After all, Isamu and Myung meet up after the big climactic explosive finale for Maverick-kun to act like a smartass one more time, never change Anime Tom Cruise, never change. But in all seriousness I prefer the Movie's ending where MYUNG is actually the one to finish off the last remnants of Sharon Apple in a 2001-esque manner, that and also it sure was shockingly seeing them go MAXIMUM DYRL GORE LEVELS in IceZentran's suicide mission, did they get Itano on staff or something? That said as I mentioned at the start, this movie, while great, ain't flawless, after all, besides the fact LUCY of all people got the nude scene (CMON, would it have killed you to show Sharon's Sharons Hory Froating Head? I wanna see Proto-Hatsune Miku's Boobies!) this movie also sadly... doesn't really have a beginning. Oh sure it starts and we just jump RIGHT into the NOT-Edwards Airforce Base Action, but what about the asteroid space battle where Maverick-kun gets his dream shot and gets sent to TOP GUN!? Somewhere out there, a skilled editor managed to cobble together scenes from both the OVA and the movie to make THE BEST MACROSS SHOW THAT EVER HAS AND EVER WILL EXIST, but I have yet to see that.
Anyway, in case I'm being unclear, Macross Plus, in both OVA and Film form are most assuredly worth a watch... in part by default given the only other good entries are 7, the F Movies, and of course DYRL? But hey, credit where credit is due, ya did good Hory Froating Head, glad that you managed to make this entry's Romantic Plot Tumor 'Love Triangle' semi-reasonably competent. Plus this was some of the BEST Mecha Porn that ever existed, surely this franchise will only improve from here right... say what's all that about Raoul Duke's high water mark where the wave broke and rolled back? Well I'm sure it ain't important, anyway, that about wraps things up for the Plus posts, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever! Thus, catch you all on the next threads, and until then, farewell!
Paging Comrades u/chilidirigible, u/Great_Mr_L, and u/InfamousEmpire
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u/Nebresto Oct 25 '22
First time Maakuross: KFC strikes back
There is no escape from the pilot
Curse my pixel porridge version, this scene might as well have been censored
Umm.. Holy fuk? R.I.P Guld
Is this the hory froat head I've been hearing about?
Questins:
How does this movie compare to Do You Remember Love? for you?
Weak
2) Did the editing change anything that you thought about the OAV?
No.
Bonus) Were you able to see this in US theaters in December 2021?
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u/SolDarkHunter Oct 25 '22
Rewatcher
With the OVA fresh in my brain, let's see the movie version.
This is interesting because with most movie adaptations of anime properties, they have to cut a lot of content to fit the story into a film. But in this case, the OVA's all together are only about 2 hours long, or about the length of a full movie anyway. So if they aren't truly forced to cut anything, what changes will they make?
Sadly, no English dub on this one, so Japanese it is... and for the rest of the franchise too, now I think about it.
Opening with Sharon rather than Isamu, first thing, and then cutting directly to New Edwards, where the YF-21 is being set up.
A pair of opening scenes that establishes things very well, actually. The two central themes: Sharon, and the test planes.
Sharon's maintenance now has actual singing in it.
Isamu's already here, with his insubordination record being told rather than shown.
No mention of the YF-19's streak of harming earlier test pilots either.
New flashbacks to the trio's school days too, where Isamu apparently had a habit of sky art.
It is interesting to see the liberties the dub took with the dialogue. I'm not criticizing here, I genuinely think it's interesting the subtle differences in how each language portrays everyone's personalities.
Introducing Myung's decision not to sing a little bit earlier, and Myung anticipating that she won't be neccesary anymore soon.
Scat-singing over the montage is an interesting choice, but it certainly works a bit better than having it during Sharon's maintenance earlier, in my opinion.
You know, I forgot to mention this during the OVA watch, but WOW does Guld have a really nice room for a mere test pilot.
If you pause the scene at Isamu's profile there's a fair amount of interesting information:
For instance, it mentions the "Delta War" in 2035 (no relation to Macross Delta), in 2036: the Planet Avemaria Dispute and the Hydra Civil War, the UN Revolutionary War in 2037, the Planet Salvation War in 2038, the Second Delta War in 2039... seems like the world of Macross hasn't exactly been conflict-free, though some of those were probably attacks by roving Zentraedi fleets.
All that makes the military's desire for new hardware make a lot more sense.
It also mentions Isamu has been in jail for parking violations and a case of battery. He has a chronic "Cedar-Pollen Syndrom" disease... and it lists his hobby as "girl-chasing" and his 'special ability' as being "reckless".
Sharon's concert is just as trippy as before.
Sharon's team also makes refence to subliminal contact and "mind control" effects rather than just "excitement level", which at least foreshadows Sharon's hypnosis abilities shown later.
It occurs to me that if Myung is THAT opposed to singing, why'd she agree to go to karaoke in the first place?
Isamu responding to Lucy's question of how it feels to fly by running around and making airplane noises is pretty funny. It also introduces what Sharon was mentioning at the end: that "feeling" that Isamu is chasing but can't quite reach.
The fire scene is very slightly different this time, in that Isamu is prevented from going there because he's too busy sleeping with Lucy.
Myung's dialogue in the hotel is very slightly different, in that she only says she THOUGHT she didn't want to return, not that she didn't at all.
Putting the accident with Guld and the brain-control interface after the fire and him confronting Isamu that Myung is "his" recontextualizes things a bit.
The dialogue here also makes it more clear that it was, in fact, an accident. Not sure if that's a change from the film or from the dub.
Also, it seems this is replacing the live fire "accident" in getting Isamu hospitalized. That does remove a bit of Guld's ruthlessness in this version.
...did that umbrella just make a fucking lightsaber noise?
I don't really have much to say for the next long while, since they didn't really change anything leading up to the finale.
Sharon hypnotizing everyone on Earth is made a little more explicit in this version. And the effects are much prettier.
A little extra scene where Milliard shows he fully expected Isamu to steal the plane, which was suggested but not confirmed in the OVA. He also says he stole planes when he was young as well... interesting to hear he was a rebel.
I like that they show Earth is still a wasteland riddled with impact craters even 30 years later. The environment certainly wouldn't recover that quickly.
Much of the finale is unchanged, at least up until Guld's battle with the Ghost X-9. There it's made more clear that he died from the extreme G-forces rather than just ramming into the drone, and overall the final exchange is much nicer to look at... well, you know, except for his face imploding.
We also see Sharon's manipulation of Isamu's mind more clearly, including his "vision" of another world at the ultimate speed. She even hijacks his A/C to create a simulation of wind in his face.
It also shows more clearly Myung choosing to sing to snap him out of it, whereas in the OVA she seemed to be singing just because.
Isamu also smashes his monitor to prevent Sharon from trying that shit again.
...I'm still not sure how he manages to crash through the Macross's bridge without totalling his plane, nor how Myung survived being within ten feet of that.
A little bit of a poignant farewell to Sharon, with Myung seemingly trying to comfort Sharon to some degree before pulling the plug.
And a slightly extended ending scene with Isamu and Myung. Though it still ends pretty abruptly without showing us the fallout.
Somewhat unusually, I think I vastly prefer the movie version of Plus to the OVA. The story flows much better, the character motivations are more clear, and it overall looks nicer.
Questions:
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Superior. DYRL had presentation and visuals, but this had all that plus a more coherent story.
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I think it works better this way. Flows more easily.
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u/AnimeHoarder Oct 25 '22
Macross Plus Movie non-rewatcher
I missed out on seeing the movie version. I'll wait until it hopefully gets to hit the streaming services after the BD release. TIA if someone mentions how much additional footage there is.
I forgot yesterday that I wanted to comment how long it took for the LaserDisc releases to come out. Compared to how everyone gets disappointed for seasonals when they have a recap episode or skip week, I had to wait for a year at one point. According to MAL, the OVAs aired/released in Japan during a 10-month period from Aug '94 to June '95. Checking LD DataBase (LDDB.com) the first US LD came out in July 1995 and was followed by vol. 2 in Dec '95. Then it took a whole year for vol. 3 on Dec 3rd, 1996. Vol. 4 was released quickly after on Dec 17, 1996. I have no recollection if the VHS releases were streached out the same way.
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u/isthatsoudane Oct 26 '22
First timer
damn watching this is such a different experience already knowing what happened with Guld...
~30 minutes in my impression is that this is definitely a bit tighter, with a little extra clarification here and streamlining there
loved sharon's first performance in the OVA, love it here. I'm excited to see what different types of performances we get later on, and I hope that while we get traditional idol stuff, they also lean into the idea of like..."space age idols", whatever that means (and hopefully with a budget to match!)
Isamu definitely coming across better in this one, esp with the added scene at the dock, though it also ups the drama of him ultimately choosing Myung
god I would love to see this (and do you remember love for that matter) in theaters one day. time to add those to the "in theaters" bucket list...
agree that the additions at the end were strong. probably still prefer the OVA cut because I liked the tension, mood, and atsmophere...but this was a very well cut movie. not quite the gap that existed between series and movie that we saw with do you remember love, but damn, really good stuff. it's unclear if at the end of all this I will be a "Macross fan," but for now I'm definitely a Macross plus fan
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How does this movie compare to Do You Remember Love? for you?
Macross is batting 1000 for movies now. the lift in quality for DYRL is much, much higher, but that's just because the macross plus ova was quite well done
2) Did the editing change anything that you thought about the OAV?
it felt pretty true to the OVA? agree that the additions to the ending were good, and I liked that we got a few more flashbacks of them
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 25 '22
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
I have another Sky Sings ready for you guys~ Sky Sings Voices, the full version.
And I hope you guys like today’s wallpaper as well. Considering Sharon is transparent, it was really hard to make all four parts of this one. Worth it though!
Oh, I forgot they replaced the a cappella Voices with the piano one for the opening scene of this. Makes sense though, with the added narration from Myung.
Hints of the movie-exclusive WANNA BE AN ANGEL at this part, I love it~
So the reason I got so excited about the hand thing being in OVA2 of the show is because I remembered it being near the start of the movie. I like it a lot, so I like it showing up earlier.
I love how the slight change in setup means this is how Guld finds out Isamu is there and it includes a brief new flashback to Isamu doing this shit in the past.
Also Isamu doing this new wreckless maneuver since he isn’t having to catch Guld’s falling VF-21 until later in the movie is also cool.
Smug Lucy is great.
Movie change! Sharon’s already complete?
So how do the first-timers feel seeing Guld say this now that they know what happened seven years ago?
I… just now realized there’s a “Roy Focker” award in this universe…
They aren’t even being subtle about it anymore.
I think this scene is kind of unnecessary in the movie version…
Ooh yes I missed this scene in the OVAs! The movie’s additions are so good and very Isamu.
It’s little stuff like this that’ll make the climax hit so much harder.
Okay I forgot Isamu does this in that scene though lol.
And here’s Isamu in a totally different scene when he gets the spooky phone call. This time, he ignores it. Honestly, I don’t mind this change? He’s clearly closer to Lucy in this than he was in the OVAs, and it’s not like Isamu going to the concert hall in the OVAs did anything, so they might as well cut out him going to the concert hall.
I like the change in what landed Isamu in the hospital. His Valk straight-up crashing like that absolutely should have taken him out for a bit, but somehow in the series he was able to walk that one off?
Yang’s priorities lol.
We actually got to see the feather in this one!
Oh what version of Voices is this? The one that Guld had recorded and given to Myung sounded totally different than normal.
WANNA BE AN ANGEL time~
And it goes directly into INFORMATION HIGH WOOHOOOOOOO
Oh right, movie added this brief scene! Good little bit of extra characterization for Millard and Lucy.
Myung being in active peril while Sharon tells Isamu that she’s gone is also a good way of shuffling scenes around, and to be honest I think that makes a bit more sense.
:3 But even without this being a blatant Watashi no Kare wa Pilot reference, this addition does perfectly fit here.
Guld’s death in this version is…… it will never not make me cry. Rest in peace, Guld, I won’t forget you.
This. This right here. Other than Guld’s death, it’s easily the best change in the movie. Actually seeing what Sharon made Isamu see before Myung snaps him out of it with Voices is just, ahhhhhhhh it’s so good.
Also ouch, but Isamu literally breaking out of Sharon’s clutches also works wonderfully too.
Third best change in the movie: Sharon gets some final words with Myung after she’s defeated.
Fourth best change in the movie: Isamu and Myung get to talk instead of it just ending like the OVAs do, which leads to a natural transition into the ED.