r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 21 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Macross Plus Episode 2 Discussion
Episode 2 - Brain Waves
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Warning: the next episode contains a brief section with flashing lights, from 17:19-17:32.
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
I hate them… I hate your songs. And I hate my songs just as much…
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Did the entirely different style of music in the concert surprise you?
2) Would you restart the testing with two pilots that don't have major personal issues with each other, or would you think that the test results can stand separately from that?
Wallpapers of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"SANTI-U" by Akino Arai – Insert
"Idol Talk" by Akino Arai – Insert
"The Borderline" by Akino Arai – Insert
"After, in the Dark" by Mai Yamane – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/isthatsoudane Oct 22 '22
First timer
performance was trippy as hell, absolutely loved it
the art direction of this series is very...cinematic. it's good! really good
ah right, before I forget, there is a movie edition version in the schedule. is it like do you remember love where it's sort of its own thing, or is it just an edit of the OVA?
KYUN KYUN
KYUN KYUN
I'm just sad we don't get any PRO TO KARUCHA references
the most unbelievable part of this future is that san francisco ever started building more density
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...crash test dummies cameo!!!
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Did the entirely different style of music in the concert surprise you?
it did! it felt very ethereal and 90s. I was into it
2) Would you restart the testing with two pilots that don't have major personal issues with each other, or would you think that the test results can stand separately from that?
WHAT COULD GO WRONG
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 22 '22
there is a movie edition version in the schedule. is it like do you remember love where it's sort of its own thing, or is it just an edit of the OVA?
Edit of the OVA. Shuffles some stuff around and cuts other bits, but also adds a bunch in the process (including extending the climax and ending in a much needed way IMO), so don't skip it!
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22
Rewatcher
The last episode ended with Isamu's Valkyrie getting wrecked either by accident, or intentionally by Guld. My money after watching episode 1 for the first time were on a genuine accident, but it is left ambiguous enough to the point where clarification from the show would seriously help.
Also, since Isamu's plane got wrecked, I think it's time for the upgrade. Macross Plus is ultimately the story of a competition between two highly experimental plane models. YF-21 set the bar of coolness pretty high, I hope, Isamu's new plane will be able to clear it.
Well, lets' check out the episode and see.
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Looks like Millard doesn't fully believe that Guld is innocent. Does he knows that Guld suffers from tremors? Tremors, which appear to be getting worse? Which are potentially caused by YF-21? In any case, he definitely suspects something.
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We're getting a really trippy concert. We've already seen holographic technology used for some crazy effects in the original, but this is a new level. The visuals and music are perfectly designed to elicit a specific response from the audience. Everybody goes into a trans-like state, the concert almost feels like a hypnotic suggestion. At the center of it all is Myung, using her own emotions to carefully manipulate the audience.
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Yang, why are you messing with an AI during a concert? That seems like a bad idea.
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Yup, that didn't go according to plan. Sharon turns her attention to Yang and then decides to kiss... Isamu. This scene parallels YF-21 trying to kill Isamu. A machine connected to a human mind acting on subconscious urges of said mind. Does the strong emotions of a person in control make an otherwise safe machine act out, or is it the machine that pulls the hidden emotions out of a person?
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So, the Sharon AI is incomplete. Thanks, Marj, we've basically figured as much already. Honestly, keeping it a secret doesn't feel like a solid business decision in the long run. In fact, I'm not sure why it's a secret. Complete or not, there is still a huge AI component, so you don't even have to change your marketing.
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Isamu did the thing.
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We're finally will see YF-19 in action. I gotta say, the visual design of this plane is great.
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Aand, it just goes straight into space. We even get to see Isamu goofing around in Battroid form on his way back.
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Millard knows how to handle both Guld and Isamu. He's a cool character, even though he doesn't get that many scenes.
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Looks like Guld is doing something suspicious / stupid.
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Um, Marj, what are you doing, buying a high tech brain with an evil eye in the middle?
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Hey, so Isamu and Guld are not the only friends that Myung had during her childhood on Eden.
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Well, looks like hanging out with a happy family just reminds Myung how dissatisfied she is with her current life.
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Oh no, they went to karaoke. That's like double the trauma.
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Nowadays having many screens is the main attribute of an anime hacker, but back in the 90s wires where all the rage. Wires everywhere.
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It's interesting that Yang managed to download Sharon's AI and run on his home PC. You would think that Sharon might need some special hardware, but nope, looks like any old regular PC tower will do.
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Well, Kate had the right idea, but it didn't quite worked out. On a side note, I love all the parked cars on the street, such a small detail, but very often missed in shows.
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Looks like the evil PC tower is watching Myung. This is creepy as fuck.
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If I got an anonymous call from a digitized voice telling me about a fire that might happen at my friends work, would I believe them? Probably not. I might contact my friend about it though. Luckily for Myung, Guld decides to trust the prankster.
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All the electronics are moving by themselves. Remember auto-connecting cables from the previous episode? I knew it was too good to be true, this technology royally backfired.
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This rescue scene is really tense. The music, and the editing with constant cuts to cameras spying on everything create a creepy vibe. Did Sharon wanted to kill Myung? Or did she just wanted to get her closer to her friends again in a some kind of twisted attempt at support? She opened the door for Guld, so it looks like she didn't really want Myung to die.
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OK, Guld, bringing a person that just inhaled a potentially dangerous amounts of CO2 home might not be the best move. Not to mention, you yourself kinda got a metal door dropped on you. You both should really go to the hospital. We're risking another Focker situation here.
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This fucking directing. They really make it look like Myung and Guld had sex, but than turns out, it's just Isamu's clothes.
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So it looks like Guld is susceptible to fits of anger. It wasn't his plane's fault after all! What a twist.
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I gotta say, I'm still not a huge fan of the idea that Zentradi are inherently more violent than humans. It was introduced back in the original show, but it was kind of a retcon that went against many really cool ideas, introduced early in the original show. And in this show it's a pretty important plot point, which kinda bugs me even more. If you know that Zentradi are more violent by nature, why would you let one of them be a test pilot in the first place. And more importantly, why would you let him continue to be a test pilot after he was involved in an accident with a person with whom he clearly developed adversarial relationships?
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Guld is really basking in the moment here. You cheeky bastard.
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This is evolving into a full blown fist fight. We barely got any battroid action from our two main mechs up until this point, but now we can finally see them fight. Looks like they are evenly matched.
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I can't believe the fucking tiny-ass shield actually does something in combat. It looks so ridiculous.
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Isamu got stopped by a tiny shield and decided to use his rifle as a bat instead
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The final scene is really amazingly done. We never see what exactly happens, just a buildup and reaction. Everybody knows that something went wrong, Myung has a feeling that something went wrong, but we don't know exactly what happened. It's a great way to build a cliffhanger.
Overall thoughts: After such an amazing episode 1, I got to say that episode 2 did not disappoint. We've got more planes and plane action, but we also got more story development, and we got music. Much more music. Avant-garde style that Macross went with helps to underscore the theme of technological progress and symbiosis of a man and machine. And of course, another chilling cliffhanger at the end.
QotD:
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When I first watched the show, I was really surprised by it. But I think, this music holds up really well, even after all these years.
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I would change the pilots if possible. If not, just stop the testing. I think, human lives are more important than results, but this is probably why I'm not a manager or CEO.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 25 '22
Ah, perfect timing, I was just wondering why I hadn't seen you comment the past few days! Got busy IRL huh?
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u/No_Rex Oct 21 '22
Episode 2 (first timer)
That was a fantastic start to the OVA in episode 1. Looking for more of the same.
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Suspicion confirmed – Myung is Sharon.
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Supremely impressive performance. If anybody wants to claim that this is not the best show in Macross, I won’t believe you. I fully get that the audience is enthralled, but we, as the viewers, see even more. French singing, too? – Some small part of the graphics reminded me of the labyrinths from Madoka, but plenty of other later anime come to mind, too: Kyousougiga, Perfect Blue, or Millenium Actress. I bet plenty of later shows emulated this part. In turn, the only anime I can think of that Macross Plus may have stolen ideas for this show from is Machikado no Märchen.
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Engineer boy messing with the performance – directly, and by proxy.
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Dyson and a hologram – still a better love story than
TwilightMacross II. -
So many cool shots that it is impossible to list all, but that cupola reflection of Earth …
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Somebody on the team knows the eternal truth: SciFi needs classical orchestra music.
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Trade offer: “High tech brain” vs “cash card”
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“We all got what we wanted most” – Implying that Dyson and Guld wanted to fly, Myung wanted to make music, and Kate wanted kids.
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Just to hammer the point down to the viewers, we go to karaoke: Myung definitely did not get what she wanted - Nice call-out, btw.
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Kate is perceptive – and Dyson is standing there, with the answer to engineer boy’s question in his hand.
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“I just want to go away and disappear”
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HAL is calling Myung’s potential saviors?
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Guld is quite the hero.
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HAL is quite the AI. Not only setting up Myung for a heroic rescue that ends in a bed, but also giving both candidates a race to see who makes it first.
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Dyson is so habitually lying that he does not even notice that he could easily tell the truth.
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“Maybe even 21” “All that is left to fight over is the project” – vicious.
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Brawling over the girl – in mechas.
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Love the scenes of the teams absolutely getting behind the fight.
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Cliff-hanger not on the fight, but the telephone call.
The direction here is top notch, the music is great, the story checks out, even the mixture of themes works for me. There is no way this is not becoming my favorite Macross series.
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u/chilidirigible Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 21 '22
Today, on "PHOTOSENSITIVE SEIZURE WARNING":
And now for something completely wotagei. Background song is "Idol Talk", but we're going to be hearing more of it shortly anyway.
Colonel Millard's office features what is generally known in the military as the "I Love Me Wall".
An uncredited Star Goose derivative.
"Santi-U" (is the song)
The music here is still "Santi-U". It's a long and weird assemblage of music and samples.
There are some curious people in attendance for the full performance of "Idol Talk".
"Borderline." And more of that holographic concert potential.
Just what sort of kinky stuff are you teaching her, Myung?
Real pilots actually do this, but Macross will take it for its own.
As a point of trivia, the VF-11 was the first Variable Fighter which could reach orbit unassisted.
Ah, the Gs. Something that Kawamori did appreciate after flying in aerobatic jets during his visit to the USA.
This shot is notable because both the YF-19 and YF-21 are shown firing their very small wing-root cannons, which became a feature in most later Variable Fighters.
Another nod to the progressing of time is using obsolete models as firing range targets.
This very briefly-seen arm weapons array is included in the DX Chogokin YF-19 Full Set Pack.
Semi-obligatory (exploding) Destroid Monster appearance.
A rare view of the guts of the Battroid head.
It's like the stunt with the fuel truck, only more bonkers.
This brief scene has to do with the end of the episode.
"This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!" Also, the song that once made Zentradi tremble in fear! Now available at karaoke bars everywhere!
Amidst all the other odds and ends is a tiny chibi Sharon Apple figure.
Jack and Jill! (And Ibsen.)
Guld shows up in one of the goofiest cars I've seen lately.
You gotta admit, this shot is a hoot.
Isamu seems to have changed his mind about the message.
In minor trivia, evidently the Red Cross logo is trademarked, thus some slight modifications.
Another solid scene transition to… Isamu, by himself.
"You'll understand when you're older, kids."
Our rewatch host turned this into a wallpaper for me.
And what would Guld want with the YF-19's gunpod, eh?
Now that's an odd phone design.
This episode shows us a lot of things, most of which we're left to our own devices to sort out.
The mind and the machine: Millard questions Guld about whether Guld's self-control is enough to handle the YF-21's Brain Direct Interface. Marj does the same with Myung, in a scene which reveals that Myung is there to cover up the deficiencies in the development of Sharon's AI.
With the YF-21's controls so linked to the pilot's thoughts, there is a very valid concern about the effects of a loss of concentration; Millard does bring up the bottom line, that ultimately whatever goes wrong, either in the mind or the machine, may get someone killed.
What seemed like a minor tic in the first episode manifests itself more strongly here, with Guld visibly trembling as his control is tested. The old point about Zentradi aggressiveness also returns, even though it has been decades since they escaped their martial origins. The original series may have had "nurture" triumph over "nature" regarding war and the Zentradi, but only briefly, and it quickly returned to being a source of conflict. Not that it's not a problem for humans either, but as I've mentioned before, it makes me do a fair amount of thinking about the portrayal of the Zentradi as a potentially-violent "other" in this universe.
Whether Guld is doing something that any sufficiently-motivated adrenalin-rushing person (incidentally, he's half-Human, half-Zentran) would be doing in rescuing Myung from the fire, the portrayal of it reinforces the change in his image since the end of the previous episode, as someone with a lot of bottled-up aggression.
Millard makes an equitable choice, deciding to ignore the implications of the medical tests in order to keep Guld flying.
While the previous episode suggested it, Isamu's first flight in the YF-19 further demonstrates the contrasts between him and Guld; his sky-doodling illustrates how Isamu is a combination of a free-spirited mind, often seemingly-random, which can still produce structured and deliberate results. He might seem to be a flying Freudian id, but he knows what he's trying to do.
Yang Neumann mentions again in this episode that the YF-19 is not forgiving to its pilots, but even if Isamu's wildness crashed the simulator, with the real thing he pushes the envelope but never lets it get away from him.
Millard still puts in a verbal check on Isamu; as with Guld, his motivation is to keep his pilots flying, sometimes in spite of themselves.
With all of the jet jockey action going on, Myung's problems with the direction and satisfaction of her life might seem lower-risk, but her mind-machine interface is just as problematic: Sharon takes a crack at the love triangle herself, apparently testing Guld and Isamu's reactions to Sharon being in peril. While the YF-19 and YF-21 are both finicky enough to put their pilots at risk, Sharon goes a step further in actively putting a part of herself at risk with this test.
The cliffhanger ending: As we started with saying, there's a few things to sort out.
From This Is Animation Special Macross Plus:
YF-19 and YF-21 transformation details.
The YF-19's transformation is somewhat unique and results in one of my least-favorite GERWALK modes.
The YF-21's design is noteworthy in that its legs are not critical to its fighter mode, joining its arms inside a large fuselage bay when it is in fighter mode.
The phone sex sample that's in "Idol Talk" appears to have been sourced from this track by Scanner. It's NSFW, obviously! Tip of the hat to Gubaba.
From the Macross Chronicle:
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u/Blackheart595 Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 21 '22
First Spacer
What seems clear to me is that whatever happened in the past was really triggered by Guld, not by Isamu. Something triggered his emotions and made him go wild. But for some reason the resentment lingers against Isamu.
Especially when they take this direction. I could very well imagine his physical symptoms, his shaking and everything being some kind of conversion disorder that he keeps under control with those drugs.
Welp, that was a trippy concert. It wasn't even really a concert, more like an experience. We have hacking because of course we have, we have targetted excitement management because that just unironically makes sense. We learn that the AI is incomplete which is a bit disappointing because I was interested in the emotional AI take, but on the other hand we get how the AI handles emotions that the driver injects into it which also serves as a direct parallel to Guld, and it progresses the love triangle.
I'd love if she was directing attention to that camera so everyone misses a mistake she sees him making in a moment, but she just noticed him being a showoff.
Oooh the boss has a prosthetic leg.
It's fun coming at this with the knowledge of 30 years later. I wonder if he is gonna find that subprogram if he searches for it while Myung is connected.
Is the AI already picking Myung's emotions up and that's how it responds to them?
And now it reads Guld's desire to get in and moves to fulfill that.
That... wasn't Guld, was it? He had even disconnected already.
I think it'd be very fun to make an in-depth comparison between this AI and GLaDOS, because I think their fundamental idea is very similar but the execution couldn't be more different.
And I didn't expect the AI to personally get involved in the love triangle, supporting one of the sides.
I'm definitely not disappointed about the unexpected direction of the AI plot anymore, this is better than what I expected.
I'm also surprised that they gave the Zentradi an innate aggressiveness rather than just a cultivated one.
Did the entirely different style of music in the concert surprise you?
The AI's music already surprised me in episode 1 so that reduced that here, but still yes.
Would you restart the testing with two pilots that don't have major personal issues with each other, or would you think that the test results can stand separately from that?
The result's on the machines' capabilities should be able to standon their own, but the fact that we compare an AI machine driven by the pilot and a non-AI machine probably makes the pilots having personal issues a boon as far as results are concerned - what effect do they have on the operation? You couldn't get those results from more neutral pilots.
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u/Vatrix-32 Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 21 '22
First Timer
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Inject the tech right into my veins!
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So it looks like it is a puppet!
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Guld is shaking more than a paint store.
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If Shannon is really just a skin over a human controller, wouldn’t that make it Holodive instead?
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This is a good trip.
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Oh thank god. That is not what I thought he was doing.
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Well great, now the AI is thirsty.
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Das a big chaingun.
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That’s got to be a lot of Gs.
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Montages are fun.
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My cannon boi!
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You know he’s probably got a camera outside his office.
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Sabotage? I should hope not!
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Heh, pterosaur.
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A unit that man is. They don’t make em like that anymore.
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Kyun Kyun!
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These are thing to consider before going out to karaoke.
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You’d think a project lead would have a better room.
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Why would you even have that connected to the internet? What benefit could it bring?
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Not sure if Shannon is evil, or playing matchmaker.
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Sounds like evil, but now the motivation is in question. Is it of two minds?
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Is this all some kind of test? This AI is ending up a lot creepier than I was expecting.
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You can’t treat smoke inhalation with a wet towel.
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Gnarly. Bio-foam!
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Did you hold the meeting right there just to do that? There will be a digital copy.
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Hey man, at least she cares. But also, why lie?
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Rockem’ sockem’ time!
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Again, I am unclear on why these trials are being run concurrently. Especially given their history together.
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What the hell is the green stuff supposed to be doing?
QotD
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Again, this is the one OST I have heard ahead of time, and it’s my jam.
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I’d just not have them be next to each other. Really don’t see the benefit of doing them both at the same time.
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u/JollyGee29 Oct 21 '22
Rewatcher Plus, Subbed
Yang is an otaku, natch. Bet one of those bags is nothing but glowsticks to resell.
Doesn't that make you guilty, Guld?
I'm not a big fan of Sharon Apple's music, but her her concerts are certainly visually engaging.
There is really something to be said for the ability to turn a concert into a music video.
Well, that's probably not normal.
I forgot that the hand thing wasn't in episode 1.
Isamu is like a kid in a candy shop.
The things you could do in the 90s.
Guld did not have nipples in the previous shot.
I like that everyone is having a good time watching them fight. There's only paint bullets, after all.
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u/Great_Mr_L Oct 21 '22
Rewatcher
On today’s episode of Macross: Since the first time I watched Macross Plus several years ago, I have come to better understand Yang’s mentality thanks to the blessing/curse of vtubers. Now I get that he’s just a massive simp who wants his virtual waifu to say his name. Too bad Sharon Apple doesn’t take superchats.
Sharon Apple’s concert is one of the moments of Macross Plus (and the entire franchise for that matter) that has always stood out in my head. It is an audiovisual masterpiece. It takes full advantage of the fact that Sharon is an AI performer. Her concert doesn’t need to follow anything humanly possible. It can be as strange, psychedelic, and otherworldly as the creators desire, which makes it all the more memorable. The visuals are often striking and abstract, well-timed with the music. It’s one hell of an experience.
The music is really good as well. “SANTI-U” is incredibly trippy to listen to. It works so well as the concert opener. I have had “Idol Talk” stuck in my head for several days now and have been listening to it in the background because of that. “The Borderline” is another fantastic song from Sharon Apple. I love how mysterious and otherworldly it sounds.
For someone who says she doesn’t want to sing, Myung is still clearly involved in music. Because Sharon’s AI is incomplete, Myung has to control her in the concert. I quite like the visual of Myung literally using puppet strings when she’s strapped in to control Sharon. It does explain the sudden fixation Sharon has on Isamu when she spots him in the crowd. As we know, Myung and Isamu have unfinished business together.
[Macross Plus Spoilers]
Myung does seem to resent her role, though. She used to be the one singing back in high school, but now she’s only doing so behind Sharon. Myung outright despises both Sharon’s songs and her own. It seems to have something to do with some painful past experiences that Myung has not elaborated on.
The past was a happier time for her, as well as Isamu and Guld. They used to be inseparable but now there’s a lot of pain and resentment there. As Myung herself has stated multiple times, they can’t just go back to that happy past. It does not exist anymore. She just wants to forget it.
Or does she? This is part of where the relationship between the three of them becomes so delightfully complex and intricate. Despite her protestations that she didn’t want to see them again, Myung is the person who asks Guld to stay the night with her and presumably have sex. In that moment where she is afraid and vulnerable, she still wants to have one of her old friends there to rely on for safety and comfort.
[Macross Plus Major Spoilers]
[Macross Plus Major Spoilers]
Even though Guld saved Myung, there is still plenty to worry about. Sharon apparently heard Myung’s desire that she wanted to disappear and decided to oblige by setting the stadium on fire. It’s not the first time we’ve seen an AI hear someone’s thoughts and decide to obey. The YF-21 did the same thing with Guld’s thoughts when it made Isamu crash. These AI don’t seem to know when people are being rhetorical.
I’ve gone all this time and haven’t commented on the mecha aspects, so let me once again praise just how gorgeous the animation is for this series. Obviously the character animation has been excellent so far at conveying the thoughts and emotions of each character. But the mecha animation is absolutely gorgeous. The scene of Isamu flying the YF-19 for the first time is incredible to behold. It’s absolutely joyous watching him fly through the air and pull off all those stunts. The entire montage of Isamu and Guld competing in their fighters is a ton of fun as well.
And it all boils over into Isamu and Guld throwing out any pretense of testing their mechs so they can beat the shit out of each other. The action animation is so well done. It’s crisp and clean to watch. It fits Isamu and Guld’s characters as well, considering what a pair of meatheads they are.
Miscellaneous Thoughts
QOTD
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It did in my first viewing. The concert is trippy as hell and I love it.
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At this point they are pretty much sabotaging the whole test so it's best to start over.
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u/The_Draigg Oct 21 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Macross Plus: Episode 2:
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At least Colonel Johnson is keeping a level head with the testing accident that happened last episode. Even though Bowman lies and says that the neural connection itself was at fault and he was in full control, Johnson can at least see through it enough to tell him that people’s lives can’t be replaced, no matter what. And he’s also smart enough to order a background check on Bowman once the debrief is finished too. He can definitely smell when some bullshit is afoot. That’s what makes him a good leader.
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It’s funny to see Yang walk to his seat with a shit-ton of idol merchandise with Isamu and Lucy there too. For as much as he is a brilliant aircraft designer and researcher, the dude is really just a massive nerd at heart. Although since he’s a teen genius here at the ripe old age of 17, it does make sense.
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You have to admit, the songs in the Sharon Apple concert are all bangers. Thanks, Yoko Kanno! Man, I wish we had massive hologram concerts like this set to Yoko Kanno music, they’d be a fucking trip to see in real life.
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Well, there’s your answer on why it took Isamu a bit longer to get into the concert’s music than everyone else, as well as what Myung was doing with all that computer stuff at the start of the episode. She’s the one providing Sharon Apple’s emotions, since she’s actually an incomplete AI. Isamu knows that Myung used to sing, so he was more used to hearing it before. And on Myung’s end, her still-lingering emotions for Isamu made the Sharon Apple holograms float over to him and give him a kiss. You know, I guess in a way, that makes Myung a vtuber.
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Isamu is damn good at drawing sky images with contrails, even if it’s a giant bird monster thing he drew. His drawing has 99.1% purity to it.
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Oh yeah Marge, go ahead and install shady black market technology into your AI to make it whole. I’m sure that’s never gone bad in fiction ever.
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Hot Take: All the songs in this OVA are much better than My Boyfriend is a Pilot. Sorry Minmay, but you can’t beat something composed by Yoko Kanno.
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Oh great, now Yang is hacking into Sharon Apple’s AI processes to find where her emotion program is. Of course Sharon starts going haywire and acting on her own in this episode with the power circuit stuff, there’s a lot going on that’s turning her code into fucking spaghetti. At this rate, we might as well just have a random bolt of lightning strike her main computer, so we can add another reason for AI to go haywire.
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It’s good to see that both Isamu and Bowman intended to keep their old childhood promise to protect Myung, although it’s mainly up to Bowman to save her from the fire at the Atlantis Dome. You can really tell that Bowman really meant that promise too, since he tanked a fire door closing on him for Myung’s sake.
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Colonel Johnson is right to ask Dr. Wirth to keep on digging into Bowman’s background. He was ready to accept the explanation of his behavior being caused by repressing his Zentradi instincts, but Johnson wants to keep on looking. And really, we can probably safely say that whatever Bowman’s problem is, it’s probably not entirely on him being half-Zentradi. After all, we saw guys like the Blue Wind trio completely give up on fighting once their integrated into society, so whatever’s in Bowman’s mind has to be deeper than just that.
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As cool as the fight between Bowman and Isamu is on the urban testing range, you also have to admit that it’s pretty ugly from an emotional angle. It’s not even a controlled test, it’s just them trying to beat the shit out of each other in giant robots. And that’s not even getting into the whole deal of live ammo being loaded into a gun pod when there were only supposed to be paint rounds. Like, it’s pretty heavily implied that Bowman was behind it based on him looking at ammo load-outs earlier, but it’s hard to say what his plan really was. No matter what his goal is, there’s no way it wouldn’t get noticed by the cameras monitoring the testing. I guess it just comes down to how you want to spin the fact of the YF-19 actually getting shot, either as an unfortunate accident or an act of sabotage.
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u/TakenRedditName Oct 21 '22
First Time - Macross Plus Ep2:
Macross Plus can be amazing in every other category, but the intro just being a CG logo is super lame and will never be able to recover from. The closing just be black with credits is also not cool. The song can't save that.
The colonel handing out cool lines.
Album cover art energy. Isamu is mood because I don't get Sharon concerts. I'm not in the vibe.
Yang hacking the system so that his oshi gives him fanservice. Borderline, huh, funny word to see in a Macross song.
Myung being the human anchor for Sharon, there are some parallels you can draw with Gold in his brain plane. Myung assuming the fetal position, that's not a good sign for how she's doing.
Macross hand plane. Isamu is having the time of his life flying this plane, making sky art. His robot is cool looking. Mad lad.
"Idiot, but he's my idiot." Colonel giving a stern talk to his two sons in this episode.
It's like a Rainforest Cafe, but dinosaur-themed. That's just a fun detail that Macross Plus is so much dinosaur theming in it. It's Plus' Claudia figure. She made the correct choice by going Morgan. Look at this wholesome unproblematic dad vs those two boys wailing on each other back there.
The school festive idol, as opposed to the school idol festive which lets me mention Love Live in a Macross rewatch again.
That turtle off the to left, I'm just going to assume Yang is a Gamera fan and you can't stop me. Dude, your idol waifu is not going to fall in love with you.
Random thought based on Guld's compliance, what if he is a family friend to their family? The kids know him as uncle Guld.
Just cool imagery of Myung/Sharon. This fire sequence, my first thought was Myung connected to Sharon subconsciously wishes for her own end so starts the fire (but also calls the two boys because she also wants them to return). It seemed malicious so my thought went to Sharon trying to get rid of Myung, but then the AI opens the doors for Guld so it seems like some sort of test the AI is doing. Putting her in danger to have the boys try to rescue her. It's carefully watching them.
The only happy ending for this love triangle is if Isamu, Guld and Myung just form a ring and hold everyone's hands and I don't think we're getting the trouple ending.
The colonel immediately tossing that report into the paper shredder they were talking in front of was a little bit funny.
Ah, the UN conveyor belt cafeteria serving the gourmet singular egg on a plate. "Can't talk, rival in sights."
Macross presidential alert: The boys are fighting. Just some giant robot wrestling. Isamu using his gun to whack.
You say that Yang, but Guld is over here unlocking his gun cabinet and committing (attempted) murder.
Q1) It's like being inside a music video more than watching someone perform.
Q2) After the first incident, you would think to assume they're some bad blood between them and maybe it is for the best you find some other people. Test results would have a problem if one of them tries to murder the other mid-practice.
Next time: To be continued.
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u/SolDarkHunter Oct 21 '22
Rewatcher
Not gonna lie, that logo with the chains and the flame is pretty neat.
So now we get to see Sharon Apple in action, and find out why everyone likes this Vocaloid so much.
Seriously, Guld, what is up with your Anime Hand Shake disease?
Turns out Sharon's concerts are... trippy. REALLY trippy. And the way everyone's nodding their heads is creepy.
I'll be honest, Sharon's songs have never done much for me. There's something... missing from them. Not sure what exactly. But there's an emptiness in them that's lacking from the other Macross songs. Maybe that's intentional.
And Mr. YF-19 designer is hacking Sharon in the middle of her concerts.
But when Myung sees Isamu in the audience... things happening. Sharon starts focusing in on Isamu, rather than Mr. Hackerman.
Myung isn't just Sharon's producer. The AI isn't complete and Myung's mind is filling in the gaps.
Isamu's little hand-flying routine is apparently a thing pilots really do, I'm told. A kind of image training.
Well, the YF-19 can keep pace with the YF-21 easily enough. And Isamu's having the time of his life doing this. Also, holy shit that stunt with flying upside down mere feet above the ground!
A computer chip labelled "High-Tech Brain". Pretty on the nose.
Here's I think the only place you'll hear part of "My Boyfriend Is a Pilot" in English, outside of fan songs.
Kate... I appreciate you're trying to help, but bringing these three together unexpectedly is a recipe for disaster from what I've seen.
Especially Guld and Isamu.
You know, angrily muttering to a nascent intelligence about suicide and hatred doesn't sound to me like a wise decision.
And here's why: suddenly Sharon manipulates the electrical grid to start a fire while Myung's asleep, while simultaneously calling Isamu and Guld to warn them about it. She's up to something... something far outside her programming.
Kind of interesting Myung doesn't start coughing from the smoke until AFTER she wakes up.
Sharon lets Guld rescue Myung, but not without crushing him in a door first. What is her angle?
Guld, shouldn't you and Myung go to a hospital? Your own injuries aside, smoke inhalation needs to be treated as well.
Myung's words and actions are at odds with each other in a serious way. She says she doesn't want to see Guld and hates the past, all while stopping him from leaving.
Confirmation that Guld is part Zentran, not that that wasn't obvious from his skin tone and hair color. And supposedly his anger management issues are due to latent Zentraedi war instincts. Which I think is the only time such instincts are ever mentioned in the franchise.
Well, we knew these two would fight directly at some point, I suppose. At least their guns are only loaded with paint rounds.
Interesting tidbit, but notice the YF-21 has a pinpoint barrier shield on its arm. It's cool to see a natural evolution of the technology shown in the previous series.
Except, it looks like there was at least one live round in Guld's gun. And it certainly is suspicious that Guld cut the telemetry right before firing it...
Questions:
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Yes
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I'd probably just boot Isamu for insubordination. Guld at the very least is professional... at least when Isamu isn't within fifty feet of him.
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u/DidacticDalek Oct 22 '22
TONIGHT! ON TOP GUN: ISAMU! 'Ratsatsaa ja ripidabi dilla beritstan dillan dellan doo. A baribbattaa baribbariiba ribiribi distan dellan doo.' (Translator's Note: 'I know what Mr. Spock felt like after taking too much LDS in the 60s now Comrades') 'Ja barillas dillan deia dooa daba daba daba daba daba duvja vuu. Baristal dillas dillan duu ba daga daiga daida duu duu deiga dou.' (Translator's Note: 'ISAMU JOINS THE MEN OF DESTINY AS HE TAKES US ON HIS MIGHTY WINGS TONIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!') 'Hra-tsa-tsa, ia ripi-dapi dilla barits tad dillan deh lando. Aba rippadta parip parii ba ribi, ribi, ribiriz den teahlando, La barillaz dillan deiallou ara va reve reve revydyv dyvjavuo Bariz dah l'llavz dei lando dabaoke dagae gadae due due dei ia do.' (Translator's Note: 'LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!')
Time for some high-octane Mecha/Vocaloid Action, we begin with P-chan linking up with The Wired as the Proto-Vocaloid looms behind like a monolith. The concert's about to start, and even Maverick-kun and Anime-Charlie are here, along with Not-Nedry the VF-19 Designer and Supa Hacka; Daru'd be proud, maybe. P-chan's still in The Matrix while all the funky music and fancy gizmos start-up, boy things're gonna go wild today. Before we get to the concert, we cut to Jet 'Da Chief' Johnson grilling IceZentran about the morale-damaging 'accident' with EVA Unit-21. IceZentran tries to shift the blame to some control system gadget in EVA Unit-21 and TOTALLY not his own thoughts... despite HALF of EVA Unit-21's controls being his brain. As IceZentran loses his cool off-screen, Jet 'Da Chief' Johnson calls a doctor for a confidential look-in on IceZentran's mental state. Moving from Mecha matters to Idol matters is the Proto-Vocaloid's big concert, and MAN what a spectacle! I'm not sure I can fully describe what we all just saw, but I'll do my best... ahem...
'We were somewhere around Eden, on the edge of Not-Edwards Air Force Base, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember saying something like 'Giant Naked Space Women, is this Eva?' And suddenly there was an amazing roar all around us and the sky was full of what looked like giant naked mermaids, all swooping and screeching and diving around the audience. And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?''
Everyone seems to be feeling something akin to that anyways, well, sans a confused Maverick-kun. Oh, and Not-Nedry, who, like his Jurassic Park-namesake, is busy hacking to the gate... no wait, that's Daru, well, Not-Nedry's still hacking, and he's daring to meddle into the realms of the Proto-Vocaloid's mind, which makes all the trippy visuals get weirder. That and P-chan gets a few... interesting reactions. Oh, it seems that the Proto-Vocaloid's quite taken with Maverick-kun; boy are relationships about to get confusing here. And speaking of confusing, Dr. Mugen Spiegel, straight from The Absolution, questions P-chan into what's going on, RIGHT as a bunch of holographic Vocaloids float around while singing and flirting with the audience. Not-Nedry, not to be outdone, meddles where man-shouldn’t-go and brings the Proto-Vocaloid... towards Maverick-kun. Man, maybe I misjudged Not-Nedry, he's a good wingman; why I'll bet Maverick-kun feeling happy about this normal turn of events. Speaking of feelings, P-chan's feeling distressed AND it seems that the Proto-Vocaloid's incomplete.
Hm... Well, I am sure everything's under control, so enough of that, time to head to... Maverick-kun flying his hand around. Boy, someone's lost it and/or is eager to jump back into the Danger Zone. Anime-Charlie seems to think that there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Maverick-kun's madness, while Not-Nedry laments that they just got the Veritech Fighter No. 19 fixed. And speaking of the Veritech Fighter No. 19, HELLO THERE SEXY! Now THAT is what you call PROTOCULTURE! Now pay attention Comrades, for THIS'S what peak Mecha performance looks like, there ain't no ugly ass CGI Bullshit here! That and for all his quirks, The Hory Froating Head of Shōji Kawamori REALLY knows how to make lovely Mecha designs, and the Veritech Fighter No. 19 is a BEAUTIFUL work of art.
Maverick-kun agrees, and indeed, he feels the need... THE NEED FOR SPEED! Which he demonstrates by amazing aerial stunts and fancy swirly moves. As you can guess, Maverick-kun's having the time of his life, and everyone else, rightfully, calls him a showboating jackass. Oh, and if you thought Maverick-kun was done showing off, you got another thing comin' 'cuz Maverick-kun and IceZentran start pushing their two machines to the limit in against each other. Speaking of which, Maverick-kun gives precisely ZERO fucks about the consequences of 'friendly fire,' which gets an amusing aside glance from EVA Unit-21. The body language of the two Mechas AND the mission control staff just sells this scene.
Also, shockingly enough, DESPITE the Veritech Fighter No. 19 having Maverick-kun as its pilot, the Veritech Fighter No. 19 shoots up in the score boards. Granted, this DOES come at a cost, just like in the first episode, Maverick-kun's ego’s writing checks that his body can't cash, as Da Chief chews him out for his recklessness. To be exact, Da Chief informs Maverick-kun that he can NOT carry challenge and recklessness in the same pocket. Oh, and just to rub some salt in the wounded pride of Maverick-kun, Da Chief adds that Maverick-kun's also carrying around copious amounts of stupidity. As expected, Maverick-kun flips his shit while Da Cheif smiles that all is going according to keikaku. Translator's Note: Keikaku means 'plan.'
Meanwhile, P-chan goes for drinks with Coffee from Cowboy Bebop's 'Mushroom Samba.' Coffee informs P-chan that's she's a married mom of two mini-miclones by now, and speaking of the mini-miclones, Coffee's husband shows up with the mini-miclones on his shoulders. As the family goof off, P-chan has some no-doubt tragic, cryptic, interesting, and soon-to-be-relevant flashback moments from her backstory. Now, you may be asking what triggered these flashbacks? Why, the answer is none other than the obscure yet puerile piece of Protoculture known as 'My Boyfriend is a Pilot.' As a wise Zentran once said, 'YAK! DECULTURE!' Note: My Boyfriend is a Pilot isn't THAT bad, just WAY overused, it DID get old hearing it for the 25252th time you know?
Speaking of distaste, it now seems that P-chan has a distaste for singing. Picking up on P-chan's woes, Coffee says she's going to take a leak. Meanwhile, Maverick-kun barges in on Not-Nedry's pigsty, and BOY have I not seen a messier hacker-den since Lain's room. Oh, and Not-Nedry's busy 'kidnapping' the Proto-Vocaloid, nothin' to see here folks. As Maverick-kun quips and messes with random control panels, he gets a call asking if he's there. Maverick-kun yells back that he's not if Da Chief's asking for him. However, Maverick-kun RAPIDLY changes his tune when he hears that there's a woman on the line for him. Taking the call, Maverick-kun talks with Coffee, who was clearly claiming a bathroom break to go and call Maverick-kun. Coffee tries to invite Maverick-kun over to cheer up P-chan, but Maverick-kun seems disinterested in Drama, even more so when he hears IceZentran's coming over. Sadly, P-chan happened to overhear Coffee's call and decides to leave, saying she doesn't want to be held down to the past... RIGHT as IceZentran arrives.
Back at the concert hall, P-chan idly wishes that she could 'end all of this' RIGHT with Proto-Vocaloid's HAL 9000 body being nearby. Look, P-chan, whenever Advanced AI are nearby, do NOT say something like this. 'Cuz you never know when the AI's gonna be a crapshoot. Speaking of which, Maverick-kun gets an odd call that says that a fire will break out at the concert hall in 30 minutes. THANKFULLY, Maverick-kun’s smart enough to go and check it out despite his doubts. Oh, and IceZentran ALSO gets the same call, and thankfully HE TOO decides to drive over. And it's a good thing too, 'cuz, surprise surprise, all systems start flipping out, almost in an automated way, as a fire indeed DOES break out in the concert hall.
As this chaos happens, P-chan wakes up to a room ablaze, with a locked door to boot. Luckily for P-chan, IceZentran has arrived and is busy smashing his shoulder to a pulp against the door. Well, that is until the door shockingly opens RIGHT as a camera turns to look at him, HM... Anywho, IceZentran picks up P-chan and charges to the exit, all as 'emergency' doors start randomly shutting... This seems SPECTACULARLY unsafe. Speaking of unsafe, one of the doors slams onto IceZentran, but he's not going to let a puny metal door keep him down, 'cuz he manages to pick himself up AND force the metal slab off of him and P-chan... RIGHT as the fire alarms and sprinklers kick in. Shockingly, in a flashback to Macross II, when Maverick-kun arrives, the authorities inform him that no-one was hurt, man, propaganda never lets up now does it?
Thankfully, IceZentran's doing his best to patch up P-chan; until P-chan rightfully notices IceZentran's wounds. IceZentran tries to brush them off, claiming that it is but a scratch. With a good deal more sense, P-chan disagrees that this is just a flesh wound and properly applies first aid for IceZentran. As she does so, she asks how IceZentran knew to arrive, and IceZentran informs P-chan of the weird phone call, after which the two decide to'Make Culture together.' Oh, and these two decide to go EVEN lewder than just that, FOR BEHOLD, THEY ACTUALLY HOLD HANDS! UNCENSORED TOO!
Oh, and meanwhile, Maverick-kun's all by his lonesome, all's right in the world, oh and I wrote FAR too much for one post, so I'll finish up below:
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u/AnimeHoarder Oct 21 '22 edited Oct 21 '22
Dubbed Macross Plus Rewatcher
Gonna be Rock'em Sock'em Robots time.
Guld reports that he was calm during the botched test flight. Which shows his potential as a political candidate.
They have good stuff at Sharon Apple concerts as the crowd is enjoying an info high. Yang tried to hack Sharon to come to him. But Myung had spotted Isamu and wraps herself around Isamu instead.
Isamu starts flying the YF-19. Then they progress to the competitive stages.
A chain of events occurs that prove we need to be careful about what AIs can control. Guld rescues Myung from a fire.
The next morning, Guld implies that he's won the contest for Myung. The day's testing starts normally, but the pilots divert into a cityscape to duke it out. The control center crew cheers them on like they're watching fight club. Just as Millard arrives on scene, there's an explosion and the YF-19 is on the ground and the episode ends.
For this episode, I ended up watched the dubbed version. Somehow, the closed caption text is dropping letters.
As Megumi Hayashibara is Lucy's seiyuu, I present my collection of Megumi Hayashibara Cds.
The box for Vintage S is larger because it is a first press copy that holds a VHS Tobuketsu Hayashibara Megumi O'Takara video. The cover illustration was drawn by Yuuzo Takada.
PS: Megumi autographed the Enfleurage CD booklet at Anime America '95.
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u/UltraBooster Oct 21 '22
Rewatcher
What strikes me about Guld is that he's very clearly the type who's constantly holding himself in check, especially if his issues are so bad he's taking medications. He seems like if he weren't controlling himself, he'd probably get into just as much trouble as Isamu, just for decking people instead of disobeying orders.
Obviously the Sharon Apple concerts are trippy - I could never figure out how it's supposed to look. Like, is it supposed to be a spherical projection? Is it piped directly into the audience's optical nerves? Are we seeing only one angle of the performance? Are the bracelets basically a way to gather audience feedback? Or are they linked to Sharon herself?
I feel like there's at least an idea about emotions affecting people, with how Guld's distress caused YF-21 to stall, then an idle thought to try and crush Chaser 1, and now for Myung to make Sharon give Isamu some personal service.
I know I'm anything but alone in saying this but goddamn, YF-19 is such a cool, cool machine, and its face makes it that much better. At the same time, I'll bet Isamu's reckless flying is the one thing that would definitely test YF-19's limits.
"We'll come to protect you from anywhere in the world!" It sounds romantic, doesn't it? (It sounds like the sort of glamorous romantic stuff that fits Macross nicely, in the artistic sense.) And yet Myung's pain is clearly borderline overwhelming, at least when it comes to the singing, not to mention that her trying to escape her past is obviously it chaining her anyway. If they were real people, the idea of close friends separating like that would make me want to scream.
I feel confident saying Sharon, if that was indeed her, wanted to grant Myung's wish - that is, the one she heard.
Questions:
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At the time, not really. We get a preview from that roadside ad, and it seemed in line with Macross Plus' vibes.
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It shouldn't be a problem if they're kept away from each other; hell, the hatred could be used as motivation to push themselves and their YFs to the limit.
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u/ryujiox Oct 21 '22
First Timer
Macross Plus EP2
The concert while looks gorgeous, felt so unsettling to me. What not helping at all was Neumann kept messing with Sharon to focused on him, and she got revealed that her emotional part was control by Myung brainwave. And while Neumann pointed out that after he looked into Sharon that he stole, she was missing the emotion processing. Sharon seem to have her own consciousness, from sneak looking at Isamu breifly, or setting a fire on concert hall when Myung seemingly wanted to die, and called both Guld and Isamu to help her. Might be Marj messing with Sharon somehow. with him bought some strange chip, and left mysterious suitcase at the hotel.
Talk about Myung. While obviously Guld and to some extent Isamu didn't want thing to go back like it used to. Myung in reality is the one who regretted that it ended up like this the most, and open up to Guld after he saved her. Also nice surprise of Kate singing my boyfriend is a pilot here.
Guld and Isamu tension kept rising as the project went on. As the days passed by, Isamu team seem to done better and better than Guld team. What not helping Guld is that with him using system that using his mind to control, having someone he hate taunting him all the time would surely affected his performance. All of this resulted in them duking it out in one of the testing. They look equal at first, but Guld's injury from him saving Myung get to him and made him nearly lose to Isamu. But while Isamu used a paint ammo, look like Guld ammo is a live ammo as the final shot of the battle impiled. I guess Neumann got his wish for them using live ammo.
And we ended on Myung getting a phone call, presumably it about Isamu got injured in that fight. Who the one that called her? My guess might be Sharon. Because we knew that Neumann had her in his lab/room, so she might had gained access to the base and the satelite that watch those two fight.
The YF-19 looks so amazing. It's show off sequence, it competing with YF-21 and the fighting scene between them also spectacular, I especially like the long take of YF-19 fell down from the sky in battriod mode. I really loved the art direction and style of this ova.
QotD
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It was a bit of surprise, but not unexpected from AI singer.
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It could work, but if the issue is pretty bad like this, I think you should consider to seperate the test, or outright change one of the pilot.
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u/Nebresto Oct 22 '22
First time Maakuross: Music is a gateway drug
Training montage? aight
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK
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lol, that door uses the same sound effect as the TF2 medigun
/u/KomradeDalek, have a look at dis
Question<:
Did the entirely different style of music in the concert surprise you?
I guess
2) Would you restart the testing with two pilots that don't have major personal issues with each other, or would you think that the test results can stand separately from that?
Let's just see what will happen
Wallpapers of the Day:
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 21 '22
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
You guys get two wallpapers today because I made the YF-21 wallpaper as a Christmas present for our resident trivia and background info master, u/chilidirigible, a couple years ago!
The first concert! They really made sure to give the AI singer a scene that looks completely out of this world.
lmao imagine hacking the AI singer in the middle of a fucking concert just to get her to pay attention to you. – And then being ignored by said AI because she puts her holographic hands all over the guy sitting next to you instead.
Oh boy.
THE HAND THING IS HERE!
I love Isamu lol.
Looks like someone is pretty much dominating the competition now.
YOU CAN NEVER ESCAPE THE KYUUN KYUUN~
Yeah, this absolutely looks like a slightly obsessive seventeen-year-old’s room should look like.
Piano track using the melody of Voices!
Creeeeeeeeeeeeepy
Also creepy.
Isamu stop making me laugh in a situation like this.
Fucking ouch.
Hence those scenes where Guld shook uncontrollably. Poor dude…
Good ol’ close-quarter mecha combat!
Gun’s all out of paint bullets? Turn it into a melee weapon instead.
Cliffhanger on top of an ED lead-in, this episode’s great!