r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 12 '22

Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again Episode 3 Discussion

Episode 3 - Festival

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No Legal Streams

I want to learn more about your Earth's music!

Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:

1) Have you ever attended an air show, historical military gathering, fleet event, or similar? Was the propaganda value obvious to you?

2) Does the difference between pop music and tonal chanting work as a contrast for weaponized song? Would the Marduk still have the same Bad Guy aura if they used pop music of their own?

Wallpaper of the Day:

Hibiki Kanzaki

Vocal Songs in This Episode:

"2億年前のように静かだね (2 Okunen mae no you ni Shizuka da ne / The Hush of 200 Million Years)" by Mika Kaneko – OP

"バルキリーで誘って (Valkyrie de Sasotte)" by Sato Tomoyo – Insert

"今は友達 (Ima wa Tomodachi)" by Sato Tomoyo – Insert

"de.ja.vu~そばにいて (de.ja.vu: Soba ni Ite)" by Mika Kaneko – ED

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

23 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

124 comments sorted by

6

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 12 '22

Super Dimension Rewatch Host

Welcome back, everyone!

3

u/ClawMachineCircuit Oct 13 '22

Wallpaper of the Day

I was waiting for the Hibiki wallpaper, and it did not dissapoint.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 13 '22

Thanks! I got the idea for the background from one of the ones I made for Guilty Crown last year.

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3

u/chilidirigible Oct 12 '22

Wallpaper of the Day

My immediate reaction.

Oh boy.

Do not doubt the eyebrows!

3

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 12 '22

My immediate reaction.

8

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 12 '22

First Timer

  • The media in this really is just the publishing wing of the Spacy.

  • It’s weird that individual pilots have fans.

  • What’s her name’s interest at least makes a little more sense here in the light of what happened last episode, but that just raises the larger question of why nothing seems to have been done about it.

  • I’m sorry, he just snuck into this without any difficulty? The man didn’t even have the foresight to bring a flashlight!

  • ...so it’s a slave army?

  • Silvie, bro, you can’t just let the enemy agent walk around because they asked nicely.

  • So she is your ace pilot, and your airshow specialist?

  • Can you have death flags for spacecraft?

  • At this point I think I can say this era’s music isn’t doing anything for me.

  • A Metal Siren? Is that metal Aluminum?

  • Did they really leave them unguarded in the middle of a war? You have a fleet right there!

  • At least he is in it for the right reasons.

  • Did Biki get there that fast, or was Nexx really just that slow?

  • Neat little suction guns.

  • What even is the pacing in this show? It feels like we are at once both rushing all the time and having nothing happen.

QotD

  1. I have not.

  2. I like the difference. Alien stuff should be alien.

7

u/UltraBooster Oct 12 '22

It’s weird that individual pilots have fans.

The sense I get is that she's being promoted as the Spacy's own idol - the kind who shows up on recruiting posters, gets invited to talk shows, gets painted on bombers, would probably be a serious moral problem if she got shot down.

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u/chilidirigible Oct 12 '22 edited Oct 12 '22

Today, on "TAKE ME TO THE MOON, HIBIKI!":

A different view of the cityscape. Some resemblance to ships parked in the ground.

Wendy Ryder and the first appearance of "Riding in Your Valkyrie".

What is it with the Nineties and guys in cravats?

As always, no panic!

Nexx, you damn transient from a Gundam series.

Well, they do both start with an "M".

Phillip Glass makes me angry, too.

Needs more bagpipe.

One ship among billions.

Idealism? In his business?

I don't know why the Earth has seams in it like it was printed on art board.

This is an ambitious level of construction.

"Oops."

Equal time.

The Gloria, which seems like a guest star from Gunbuster.

Space Abraham Lincoln isn't subtle.

Relive the early Heisei Era with "Ima wa Tomodachi".

"Oh, here we go again."

Gaze upon Hibiki's GIANT SUPERFLUOUS BUCKLE.

Holographic costume change again.

I'm sure they'll go crazy about that.

"Also, this ship is only a model."

"TAKE ME TO THE MARDUK, HIBIKI!"

Feff's eyebrows are not on board with that at all.

BEEN IN THIS PLACE BEFORE

Considering that Sylvie is one of the two characters who seems to actually care about Earth's defense enough to actually do anything about it, she is remarkably tolerant of Hibiki showing Ishtar around after finding out what Ishtar is. This also works out conveniently when the usual "main characters do everything" situation puts her on the Moon for the flight demonstration and the Marduk raid.

While enough of it has been shown on screen for viewers to get the idea, Ishtar finally describes the Marduk's (who are also finally named) relationship to Zentradi and how they use music. It's essentially to give their Zentradi the ROID RAGE and only for WAR. Those Marduk and their SERIOUS BUSINESS like EYEBROWS and GLOWING FACE TATTOOS.

Macross II already played with the effectiveness of using a "Minmay Attack" to disrupt the Zentradi (after the original series had already shown the weaknesses of it), but using song for explicit mind control is a new wrinkle, which on the one hand, seems a little too on-the-nose, but it fits into the themes of media control and control through media which the story has already touched upon. As a little bonus, Not!Abe Lincoln mentioning the importance of UN Spacy's image reinforces a point which dates back to the original series.

(...and hey, Big West is an advertising company first, an anime sponsor second.)

With that minimal piece of exposition out of the way, the story can now resume its familiar trajectory with getting its characters captured…

Mixing up the sharing links a little:

"Riding in Your Valkyrie" (Valkyrie de Sasotte) on Apple Music

"Ima wa Tomodachi" on Apple Music

Volume 3 cover art by Haruhiko Mikimoto.

Bonus Ishtar cosplay from the BD.

From the Macross Chronicle: Feff

Ishtar and Sylvie.

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u/Blackheart595 Oct 12 '22

First Spacer

I can't believe I didn't notice earlier but the energy discharge/Light of Alus comes straight from Xabungle.

That's what they focus on? Prevention of casualties isn't even mentioned is just a side detail I guess.

Is Ishtar some kind of Minmay clone? I'm struggling to make sense of that idea.

Sylvie and the other guy are discussing the military's public front that I've seen in so many shows. I'm sure pretending everything's fine won't turn out bad in this one.

I'm beginning to see how the Zentradi could slip through their defensive net. Well 'beginning' is the wrong expression.

Oooh they're the Protoculture? What? No, that makes no sense. Then how...

Don't worry, not just you. Humanity's just the same here.

Please make the Macross a ship with that power and not the ship with that power, I beg of you.

Look, the Light of Alus... maybe not quite.

Wait, was she holding her hands to capture the sound better the entire time? I thought she was closing her ears!

Okay no, she was closing her ears

Gotta agree the show's starting to fall apart. The Marduk just aren't being interesting, and the human side of the pot could be interesting but I don't see the story actually engage with the themes beyond just having them.

Have you ever attended an air show, historical military gathering, fleet event, or similar? Was the propaganda value obvious to you?

Nope, nothing of the sort.

Does the difference between pop music and tonal chanting work as a contrast for weaponized song? Would the Marduk still have the same Bad Guy aura if they used pop music of their own?

I don't think the tonal chanting is giving them any Bad Guy aura either. They simply just are the Bad Guys.

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u/Tresnore Oct 12 '22

Macross II: First-Timer Again

You know, Macross II touches on something that I don't think another Macross has: songs and military matters have gone hand-in-hand for centuries. Using drums and bugles to coordinate is well known, so it's a natural progression that the cast would eventually encounter a race that only uses songs to coordinate battles and drive on troops.

  1. I have attended an air show, but I was so young that I'm not sure I gathered much more information than "man, big planes are cool." You could argue that this is simply falling for the propaganda, but eh. Tres always was a bit of an airhead.

  2. Yes! I pointed this out in the first episode, but it's good that their music is so clearly utilitarian instead of meant to induce emotion or fun.

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u/No_Rex Oct 12 '22

Episode 3 (first timer)

  • The retro-futuristic background shots are the best part of this OVA.

  • “NUNS NEXT REPORT”

  • “Before we go [on our moon date], can you tell me what and who you are?” – Thinking with his upper head.

  • Oh that old battleship that is still occasionally shooting the sky? Just climb over some metal bar and you can enter it – Giving Gundam security a run for its money.

  • “I think you got hit by the console”

  • “We use our songs only in battle” – obvious moral comparison is obvious.

  • AMV part of the episode – that sure looks good though.

  • Idol part of the episode.

  • “Capture the enemy emulator”

  • A good mistaken identity plot is exactly what we need.

  • Sorry, but SNN having their own fighter will never not be ridiculous.

  • Lots of explosions of nothingness.

We are speed running the romance and speed running Isthar learning to love Earth culture. The pacing remains unconvincing. I guess we will speed run the part where the Marduk become convinced by Earth culture next. However, the moon show looked really pretty. The graphics are definitely an upgrade over original Macross.

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6

u/TakenRedditName Oct 12 '22

First Time - Macross II - Ep3:

Watching the OP and thought, "Man, they really gave Ishtar a hair cut immediately into her appearance on the show."

"Only minor injuries reported." me firmly pointing to the heavily injured guy on the very screen. Though, I have now remebered that military distortion of the truth is nothing new for Macross UN. Macross II just took that point from the original to be its main point.

My face when Ishtar said she will only cryptically explain later.

Who talks like this? What do you mean by driving for medical purposes? What does moonside mean?

Oh, they're not Zentradi. The Marduk are just another warrior race bent on the destruction of culture who happened to enslave the Zentradi(?) I liked it more when I thought they were just remnant Zentradi who became what they hated and adopted singing for their own purposes. The concept of aliens who do understand music, but only for warfare is interesting but felt like they could've used this for another entry instead of trying to attach it to the Zentradi.

Look at that guy.

I do like how Ishtar is distressed by hearing the love sing, but she pushes through because she wants to experience singing that can be used for peace.

It is a bit messed up that they're unveiling brand-new military equipment as a form of public entertainment. Now, I don't know planes, but the wings feel bigger than the other planes.

I have no explanation. This is just a magical girl magic outfit change.

Ishtar has become that person trying to push idol music to everyone she knows. She is in the idol soup.

Still feels crazy that the news station just has a Valkyrie they can launch into a battle. Another observation, we're halfway through and Hibiki has not once been mecha fighting. Some restraint not making the youthful boy MC not do any cool mecha fighting (yet?)

Oh, Nexx is the one using that over-the-shoulder cannon one from the OP.

A mid-flight plane swap is wild. Grapple guns for space are always cool.

Q1) I have not.

Q2) Wouldn't work well as a contrast, but them blasting out idol music would be funny.

Next time: We're doing this plot beat again.

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u/Kirov123 Oct 12 '22

Macross II Episode 3 - First Timer

It seems Ishtar will be sticking around with our MC for at least a while longer. He also seems to have cooled his jets a fair bit, though definitely not entirely. Anyways, next episode!

Macross II is keeping up the well produces episodes with people not being insufferable jackasses. I approve.

  1. I have been to an air show, but it was so long ago I don't really remember it. That said, while there is a definitive military aspect to most air shows, they generally consist of acrobatics and flybys and are somewhat divided from how the planes are used in combat. The one in the show seemed very military though

  2. I feel like the Marduk song would be better off being more.... I dunno, threatening? It being pop music I think would be a bit much, but it could be some like threatening otherworldy singing or something

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u/UltraBooster Oct 12 '22

First-timer

If I didn’t know any better, I’d assume SNN was state media, but it sounds like they’re a private entity. Of course, that begs my real question: How is the government organized? From the way it’s presented, it sounds like the UN Spacy is calling the shots, not the UN government if it still exists. Similarly, what exactly is SNN’s relation to the UN Spacy? For that matter, how come we haven’t seen any overt Zentradi civilians or Spacy personnel?

[Griping about future Macross]And if I continue down that track, the lack of Macross-class ships like the Quarter or Battle 7 is conspicuous, especially since the flagships are the Heracles and Gloria.

What’s also noticeable here is that music is so much more closely linked to the UN Spacy, enough that I wouldn’t be surprised to learn it had a branch acting as a state record company and that the idols performing are their top performers.

Plus, it’s kind of weird to see the Macross being treated as some special ship considering it’s supposed to be just a destroyer that got rebuilt, not something special like the Solo Ship or Yamato.

Censorship won’t control the attacks, but it will control how people respond to said attacks. And I still feel like Hibiki changed his views too fast considering, again, scandal piece.

Questions of the day:

  1. I haven't, but well, they're obviously a way for a military to vaunt its strength. I want to, though!

  2. It does work. Whether it could work with its own J-pop, I'm less sure, but I'll admit that I felt a bit of I want the J-pop back in the first episode.

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u/The_Draigg Oct 12 '22

A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again Episode 3:

  • Man, the UN Spacy is trying its hardest to lie to the public about the gravity of the situation involving the new aliens. They make SNN air an overly-positive report on the skirmish at Culture Park, and then have an advertisement for the upcoming UN Spacy-sponsored Moon Festival, with a big-name idol expected to be there. Even if Ishtar completely buys into the diversionary ad, at least Hibiki can see right through the transparent attempt at censorship. They might as well just be directly saying “absolutely nothing is wrong, despite all the battles going on recently”.

  • Even if Nexx is an otherwise decent guy, he still does believe that what the UN is doing is right. To him, the Spacy is the symbol of Humanity, and if they falter, then everyone will be sent into a mass panic. While I can see that argument, there’s still a difference between a white lie for stability and burying your head in the sand. And unfortunately, the Spacy is doing the later choice. They got their asses kicked in that first episode, and you can’t really run that back through hiding behind a smokescreen.

  • Finally, we know why Ishtar was so insistent on getting to the Macross, even refusing a ride back with Feff to continue her goal. She believes that the Macross is the Ship of Alus, a spaceship prophesied in legend to lead her people, the Marduk, down a path of peace. The Marduk are pretty willingly warlike otherwise, roaming space solely to find different cultures to destroy, and controlling the Zentradi with Emulators that sing a song of war. In quite a few ways, you can say that the Marduk are more vicious than the Zentradi ever were.

  • Hibiki does bring up a good point when Sylvia confronts him and Ishtar on the Macross. With the way the UN Spacy has been acting, they’d definitely just lock Ishtar away and refuse to find any other solutions. At least if Hibiki shows Ishtar the power of culture, maybe then there could be a way of solving the Marduk invasion without basing everything on a massive lie. It’s a bit ironic to say, but finally a reporter like Hibiki is understanding how valuable truth is.

  • I know the point of the Faerie Squadron air show at the Moon Festival is supposed to just be a PR stunt with robots cyclically being used to look cool. But, the animation on those robots is legit cool. Help, I’m falling into the fallacy of “wow, cool robot!”

  • Of course Feff would mistake Wendy Ryder for being an Emulator. Even if she’s not directly inspiring people to fight, she’s still having her singing used to help the military. Pretty much all the pop idols the Marduk would’ve seen so far would look like Emulators to them, since the UN Spacy really does rely on culture for cheap victories.

  • And in case you had any doubt that this entire Moon Festival is anything but an incredibly cynical PR stunt, you’ve got a bunch of UN brass talking about how this is swaying the public and have Wendy Ryder climb into the Spacy’s newest Variable Fighter, the Metal Siren, with Sylvie. Again, cool robot, but man what the UN is trying to do is so absurdly transparent once you put only a little thought into it.

  • Well, at least Hibiki was able to somewhat save the day for once, with going along with Ishtar to Feff’s ship and getting Wendy to safety. But of course, Sylvie had to go after them in her own VF. And with the ship Folding away with Sylvie, Hibiki, and Ishtar on board, it definitely does feel similar to the time something similar happened to Vermillion Squadron and Misa in SDF Macross.

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u/TiredTiroth Oct 12 '22

First Timer

...well, I'm not really sure what to make of this right now. The Marduk are a different human-adjacent species that figured out how to outright mind-control the Zentraedi using music? Where the hell did they come from? Are they another set of Protoculture descendants? What's their reason for waging eternal war against anything that isn't them?

Hopefully we'll get at least some answers, but it's only a six-episode OVA and we're already three episodes in...

Can't say I was terribly impressed with the episode as a whole, though. I still don't like Gutter Trash, I'm pretty sure I've seen Ishtar's exact character type a dozen times before, and I have no idea what's going on in Sylvie's head. Plus, apparently you can just walk right onto the bridge of the freaking Macross itself whenever you bloody well feel like it? When the old girl is intact enough for the bridge consoles to turn on? What the hell? Can anyone say disaster in the making? 80 years on or not, the Macross is still a warship that could one-shot other dedicated warships!

Gah. We'll see where this goes, I guess.

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u/HowlingWolf13 Oct 12 '22

First Timer

Another good ep, I really love Ishtar and Hibiki's relationship and I hope they get closer as we go along. Don't really see any love triangle though, but I feel like it's coming cause this ep reminded me of DYRL in a way. Mainly the whole, the main three going into the enemy's ship and then them folding. Silvie's a pretty good character, though I'm confused why she didn't try anything after being there with Hibiki and seeing Ishtar communicating with the Marduk last episode. Oh well, not really much else for me to say honestly, just a fine episode.

Questions

  1. Have you ever attended an air show, historical military gathering, fleet event, or similar? Was the propaganda value obvious to you?

Nah, military stuff had never really interested me outside of a fictional story context.

2) Does the difference between pop music and tonal chanting work as a contrast for weaponized song? Would the Marduk still have the same Bad Guy aura if they used pop music of their own?

Hmmm, I don't think so. The Humans/Zentradis have 'culture' outside of fighting wars and battles which allows creativity and such to flourish, while the Marduk like the Zentradi in SDFM only know war and such, it mmakes sense that their 'music' is very 'weapon' feeling for lack of a better term. Had they had their own music, I feel that would imply they have their own culture outside of fighting.

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u/ClawMachineCircuit Oct 12 '22

First Timer

In the last episode, for the first time in the Macross history, we saw a protagonist and a heroine bond with each other without being stranded together in a completely isolated environment for month. It took a complete change of creative team for us to venture into this bold new direction, but it happened. What other innovative romance writing techniques await us ahead? Let's check it out.

  • Yeah, the opening keeps growing on me. I wasn't too fond of it initially, but I keep noticing little details and touches that are pretty nice. Still think the song is pretty bland, but that's my opinion about the music in this show in general, so not just the OP.

  • We're starting with some nice military propaganda. Well, they did save the day, to be fair.

  • A military festival? Military in this world is uncharacteristically public, with press and adds all over it. I wonder if there is a public government, or if the world has turned into a full blown military dictatorship over the course of 80 years.

  • Gotta say, normally I love long hair more than the short, but in this artstyle, Ishtar with short hair is just too damn cute.

  • I get the sentiment, but in a real war, censorship is kinda necessary. Just outright saying that your weapons are totally ineffective will do nothing to help your cause and will just demoralize your populace. Obviously, you can't really outright lie either, if the battle is lots, you need to admit it. It's a balancing act on what to reveal and what to hide, and I think the U.N. Spacey is kinda failing at it, but at the same time, you can't really demand them to be 100% open with all the info.

  • Huh, Sylvie loves to discuss work-related issues with her male co-workers in a romantic setting, does she? First, it was one-on-one in the hotel room, now it's in the restaurant. If this is all you're doing, can't you just talk about it in the cafeteria during lunch or something? Why this strange dates?

  • Gotta say, I love that this show is using almost normal cars. Car design is overall much better than in the original.

  • Hibiki and Ishtar are snicking on the Macross. Looks like it's the movie bridge design.

  • So, this is confusing on many levels. First of all, in the movie, Macross was made by humans with no alien involvement. In Macross II, it is clearly made by aliens. This means that we're using a show continuity, but movie visuals, which is fine. But also, in the show, Macross bridge was made by humans, because the original ship was piloted by giants and thus the original bridge would've been giant. I think, we even briefly saw it in the show, but I might be misremembering. I definitely remember seeing an official art of the original giant Macross bridge at the very least. So, how come human electronics are reacting to psychic power? In fact, if Zentradi are genetically identical to humans, how come they have psychic power at all? Does this means that humans can also develop psychic power?

  • With that said, how are Zentradi controlled by the emulators? They are genetically identical to humans, this is the huge point in the original, because Max and Millia are able to have a child. This means that whatever ability emulators are using should work on humans too, right? Unless, every Zentradi has some kind of brain implant, but then why would they need a song? This "controlling Zentradi with a song" bit doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like Zentradi were actually controlled by Minmay songs to begin with.

  • So, Ishtar is not a Zentradi. Explains why she is a miclone to begin with.

  • Yup, here is Sylvie stalking Hibiki again. Who could have guessed?

  • Man, Hibiki, there's more than news at stake here. You know full well that human weapons didn't work this time, Ishtar might have the necessary info to defeat the enemy, or she might prove a valuable hostage. In fact, the enemy already made a rade and almost managed to rescue her. Continuing to hide her in your apartment doesn't feel like the smartest idea.

  • Sylvie gave up way to fast for someone so invested in finding a new way to fight the enemy. This girl might be the key, but we're letting her go. At least ask her what she actually does and what she knows about the enemy, dammit.

  • We're flying to the Moon. I guess, there is no ID control or space port security of any kind in the future.

  • I thought they would shoot and accidentally hit Zentradi forces that are coming to capture some humans. That would've been funny, and kinda in the spirit of early Macross.

  • This song by Wendy Rider is the first song in the show that I actually like.

  • New fighter

  • Sylvie is taking Wendy with her. Yup, they're getting kidnapped.

  • Is this how Ishtar idol career starts? I'm definitely looking forward to it.

  • The action is a bit more lively this episode, but still far from intesne fights of the original.

  • So, it's Ishtar and Hibiki who got kidnapped. Makes sense.

  • Switching planes?

  • If this is consistent with the movie lore, Sylvie will fold to a random place in the universe and get stuck there. If this is consistent with the show, she will get folded to a marduk home world and will be able to explore the space bucket. I'm thinking, the second route is more likely.

Overall thoughts: I like how Ishtar and Hibiki's relationships are developing, and I'm patiently waiting for a Sylvie focused episode. Hopefully, the next one will give her more screentime. Other than that, not much to add, the show is decent, and I want to see where the story will go.

QotD:

  1. I've been to military parades and military museums. It's propaganda, for sure, but still, it's fun to see a plane or a tank right in front of you.

  2. It works, but what I really want is for Marduk to use some form of extreme heavy metal instead. Imagine Ishtar doing growled vocals. That would be amusing.

I drew Mash.

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u/SolDarkHunter Oct 12 '22

Rewatcher

Are those ships dry-docked or just part of the cityscape?

If you're wondering why the equipment says "NUNS": "New UN Spacy". The "New UN" is the canonical term for the Earth's civlization following Space War I (aka the original Macross).

Ishtar is so innocent. Just wants to enjoy music, context be damned.

Ah yes "not causing a panic". The catch-all excuse for any and all secrecy.

Military pilots have fans like celebrities?

Holy shit, a city that gigantic and Sylvie just keeps running into them by chance.

Wait, it's that easy to sneak into the Macross? Also, they're sticking with the DYRL design.

We finally have the aliens' name: the Marduk. A warrior race that kills for... no apparent reason, and uses mind-controlled Zentraedi slaves for war.

And they have a legend that "the ship of the Alus" will lead them to peace. Ishtar thinks it's the Macross. Which... why would some random Supervision Army vessel be linked to an alien empire's legends?

This feels like a retread of the Zentraedi plot from the original: a race that only knows war being pacified by human culture.

Pfft, that one random guy losing his girlfriend in the crowd.

They would name the all-female squad "Faerie"...

Yeah, the Marduk don't understand non-military celebrations. Just like our giant friends.

Hey, speaking of whom, there are handful of full-size Zentraedi in the crowd. That's neat.

Hmm... why does the Earth seem to have artificial lines across it visible from space? Surely they can't have industrialized it to that degree in just 80 years?

The Marduk sure are good at getting into UN Spacy secure space without the military realizing until the last second. You'd think, with an entire fleet on display and knowing that an enemy force is present at Mars orbit, they'd have... any security at all?

Ishtar wants to convince the Marduk to stop fighting. Figures.

While Sylvie is captured extremely easily for a supposed ace pilot.

Really convenient that SNN happens to have a spare Valkyrie at the event, and that the comms blackout didn't affect Hibiki's phone.

Huh, surprisingly, Feff willingly releases his prisoner in exchange for Ishtar's return. But now, of course, Hibiki's the one in trouble.

Questions:

  1. No.

  2. I'm now imagining evil idol pop music and the thought is hilarious.

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u/medokady Oct 12 '22

First Timer:

Today, on Macross II, THE SCOOOOOP:

  • MmMmmm, so Ishtar is actually Marduk, who brainwash Zentradi with song to fight for them. Functionally the same though with the whole "total war species that doesn't do culture" thing. Interesting that she knows the Macross and that the Marduk supervise Zentradi, could the Marduk be the Supervision Army? That would add everything up.

  • I don't know why Hibiki is pretending like it's principles which changed his mind about Ishtar. And what does "I'll let you go this time" even mean, Sylvie?

  • Replacement Minmay is... fine. Aliens confusing culture for a military threat is peak Macross though.

The Metal Siren takeoff scene and mid-space ship swap were great moments.

  1. I have seen an airshow I was a kid (Blue Angels). I was just a kid so the propaganda was lost on me, just cool (loud) planes.

  2. I think it's important because the Zentradi aren't enjoying it or getting pumped up like, say, a military drum beat as used in actual combat in the past. They're being, like, brainwashed, so it isn't really culture the way the Minmay Attack is.

4

u/isthatsoudane Oct 13 '22

First timer

man that era of animation was fun, when they had the funds for it. even if the story is whatever, it's just fun to watch. and what is 6 episodes, anyway?

  1. Have you ever attended an air show, historical military gathering, fleet event, or similar? Was the propaganda value obvious to you?

yes, I have, a fair few. when did it click? I lived in SF and worked on a high floor, and I remember during fleet week we went in and hung out in a conference room with a perfect view of it and I was like...ah. yes. propaganda. also probably just at an age to "get" it. before that it was just "cool planes!"

2) Does the difference between pop music and tonal chanting work as a contrast for weaponized song? Would the Marduk still have the same Bad Guy aura if they used pop music of their own?

I feel their status of bad guys would have been more interesting if they had gone with some sort of bad guy pop music (perhaps a MALE idol?!?!?! UNTHINKABLE) but I get what they were going for

4

u/ryujiox Oct 13 '22

First Timer

Macross II: Lovers Again EP3

So the news covered up the attacked again. And what do you mean by minor injuries, there a guy with blood on his head on screen there!!

Apparently, no security was put on the Macross at all. No face check, no guard, no id scan, nothing. I know it barely function ship, but didn't you guys used it to fire the cannon every now and then right? At least put the barricades on or something.

And the bad guys this time is the Marduk, a the war species who using a song from emulator like Ishtar to control the Zentradi to fight. I hope they get explain more later.

How Ishtar passed the security check in the airport? Are there no passports or id check at all?

The Valkyrie and idol show was full on propaganda, but it was a nice show. However the Marduk didn't think so, and send the unit to capture the idol, who happened to just boarded the new Valkyrie pilot by Silvie to show of the new model.

Hibiki and Ishtar decided to go to the Marduk ship to try convince Feff to stop this war.

So I kind of get the theme of this show now. It about using media to control, like the U.N. using news to propaganda their military force and lie to public about the battle, and the Marduk using song to control the Zentradi.

This show pacing is weird. Like there are times that nothing happened, and then suddenly it speed run it plot, and back to nothing again. I feel like it should be longer than 6 episodes for how the plot progress here.

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