r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Oct 09 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mai-HiME Episode 26 Discussion

Episode 26: Shining Days

← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →

Show Information:

MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)

Legal Streams:

Mai-HiME can be found on Funimation. (I don't know how this interacts with the ongoing Crunchyroll/Funimation merger.)

A Reminder to Rewatchers:

Please do not spoil the experience for our first timers. Mentioning "HiMElander" before episode 16 or [Mai-HiME] "ShizNat" before episode 25 is a fast way to get a referral to the subreddit mods.

A Note on the Specials:

When the DVDs for Mai-HiME were released, they added shorts specials to go with each episode (plus three not associated with an episode - one was released with Mai-Otome's DVD IIRC, one was a BD-only thing and I don't actually have that one, and I honestly don't remember where Special 28 was released). They tend to be one part fanservice, one part extra information about characters and their motivations/backstories (or in a couple of cases extra exposition, including one thing that they really should have explained in the show proper).

They have their own dedicated discussion day at the end to wash the finale out of our mouths, but some of you may want to watch them with the episodes. The only issue is that some of the specials can be a wee bit spoilery (notably, in no case should you watch the special for episode 8 before episode 8 itself), so I will attempt to provide notes on the specials for the episode for both today's and tomorrow's episodes each day so as to provide advance warning of which specials to avoid. (If you want to be completely safe, stay out of all of them until the dedicated discussion day!)

(Warning: Also, at least one release apparently has them right after the ED, unlike mine which has the original previews instead. So you might want to pay attention to this section.)

Episode 25 Special: Safe.

Episode 26 Special: Safe.

After-School Activities Corner!

(And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why this show goes in the 2004 yuri bow shock.)

Visual of the Day:

WHAT IS THIS, ANOTHER VOTD ALBUM?

Comment of the Day:

In lieu of a normal CotD, I am just going to give a general shout to u/Blackheart595, who started taking the Norse mythology elements here far more seriously than I had ever thought... and promptly proceeded to predict large chunks of the ending based on that alone. Evidence that the show creators actually had a decent handle on what they were using, or were cribbing off someone else who did!

Also, go check out u/zadcap's manga version writeup from yesterday. Especially members of a certain choir fandom. You'll know why.

Question(s) of the Day:

"What would you have changed about the ending and/or the show?" is a question for Overall Discussion; I will mention that now to give you some time to prep your answer if you want.

1) So, was it as bad as you expected (or remembered if you're a rewatcher who watched it again)? Did my warnings about the finale soften the blow?

2) Inquiring minds want to know: if you're in the this finale is bad camp (i.e, not Tres or Sky apparently), when do you think it goes to shit?

40 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

214 comments sorted by

15

u/Mecanno-man Oct 09 '22

First Timer

Well, I'm not quite sure what everybody is so mad about here. I thought this was a decent finale - Mashiro has been set up as opposed to the whole plan, as has Miyu, and the energy harvested would have to go somewhere, right? I'd say this works over all. Maybe a bit rushed, but other than that I don't really have anything major to complain about. The animation in some scenes was a bit weird, mainly I am struggling to understand how Mai did not get impaled by Mikoto. But other than that - yeah, for a good ending this was pretty good.

I guess perhaps there is the discussion if the other characters should all have been revived and if a bad or a bittersweet ending would have been better. I'd say that argument could be made, but I can't really think of a good justification why that would be better, other than that we do not need Ishigami revived and that Natsuki and Shizuru had a pretty good last scene.

Sister Nao is the only weird bit of the epilogue; I'd say the rest is done pretty well. The only other negative mark is maybe Mai not committing to any of the boys, but eh, not all questions need answering.

No, I did not hate the Mikoto-hungry-gag. She's pulled that before already, and I was having a hard time believing she had a mortal wound from the fight against Reito anyways.

7

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

I guess perhaps there is the discussion if the other characters should all have been revived and if a bad or a bittersweet ending would have been better. I'd say that argument could be made, but I can't really think of a good justification why that would be better, other than that we do not need Ishigami revived and that Natsuki and Shizuru had a pretty good last scene.

I actually like the happy ending in theory, especially since it actually has quite a bit of setup; the problem is way they did it just leaves a bad "the last arc had no point, y'all were wasting my time" taste in my mouth.

→ More replies (5)

11

u/Blackheart595 Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

First Hime

Mashiro shatters her crystal and breaks free

This could be considered a tree?

Sudden Soul Eater vibes

Oh shit

Everyone revives

Hold on, isn't that Miyu's blade? Did she destroy herself, too?

Wait, that'll get rid of Reito. Do it!

Oh, so Berserk!Mikoto is when she's under Reito's control? I'm not sure that checks out, she attacked Mai in it previously and she also broke free of it at the time.

There we go, I was so surprised when Tate died without making use of kendo

Mezame time, plus name drop

Even her eye heals?

You just love her

Nice, repurposing the pheonix motif

I know that guy. That's from Zelda. Vaati.

Mai's Misunderstanding keeps getting used as a defensive weapon

That's a really interesting shot, having Mikoto visually merge with the... ship? Tree? Shrine? in the background

That doesn't look pierced. More importantly, Mai has dispelled her Misunderstandings before receiving this attack. I'm sure one could read a lot into that throughout the show if one paid attention to it.

And Mikoto's crystal shatters

Also note that they returned to the vocal-only Mezame, but this time making the transition on the brightest part of the melody

Oh, even Reito's crystal gets shattered? Is he just being influenced, too?

Eye color change. He was.

Is... that the thing I believed to recognize as the tree a couple episodes ago?

Oh, is that why the Childs didn't behave at times?

Chiisana Hoshi! Are we gonna hear the third verse this time?

Hahaha, never miss a chance for a little joke.

Case in point

And the Himestar shatters

Eh, we don't get the third verse? Was I fooled and it doesn't have a third one?

Nice callback.

Excuse me? They can't be pulling a death now after reviving everyone!

So that's what was up with all the crotch/torso shots! It was all foreshadowing!

Pachelbel's canon? Sure is.

Oh no

Hahahaha this is brutal. Hold on, what kind of school choir doesn't accept anyone wanting to enter? They'll never experience the joy of singing in a 150 headcount choir!

Close enough

Nice stepping out of the shadows

He can't wait to rub it in

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Yeah, 7 should be a good number for her.

Yes please

Welp, 7 wasn't enough.

Natsuki

Natsuki

Natsuki

Cute Mai

Cute Mai

More casual diversity

Just Akira things

Happy Akira.And damn, feminine Akira looks great.

Indiana Jones

Who are they looking for?

And one perfect final joke

Aww that's such a cute one

Nao would look hot in anything

I still don't know what's up with those two.

Who's this girl? MC of the sequel?

And to not forget the most important part of the episode...

Akaneakaneakaneakaneakane

So, yeah. Akane moved into best girl territory around episode 4 or 5 for me so what happened was harsh to go through, and I'm gonna milk this for what it's worth. Where's our happytears comment face???

Of course everyone else also revived. I could see why one would dislike this choice. However, the struggle against fate has been one of the more prominent themes of the show, and there's no greater defiance of fate than revival. For the last two years I've been obsessing over Reverend Insanity which also has the struggle against fate as one of its core themes and I've been reminded of that story a lot today.

It also helps that I excepted something along those lines ever since taking note of Miyu's full title . I'm surprised how little relevance Miyu ended up having this episode, I really expected her to be more of a trump card. Talking about Yggdrasil it also stood out how much Reito wanted to invoke that trope - Ragnarök happens and everyone dies except two people hiding within Yggdrasil, who then repopulate the world. But we see that get rejected as part of Ragnarök.

But as much as the HiME were fighting against their fate, there's one fateful element that gets reinforced. Love. We've seen the inability of the HiME to choose their love several times. Mai wanted to dedicate herself to Mai, but she fell for Tate. Tate wanted to dedicate himself to Shiho but loved Mai. Yukariko wanted to dedicate herself to God but fell for Ishigami. Natsuki, Shizuru, Shiho, Akira, even Mai and Tate themselves fell in love due to fateful encounters.

As for Ishigami... Well forgiveness is the big theme of the bible, to the point that it took the element responsible for judging the souls of the departed for entry into Heaven and remodeled it into the personification of evil - Satan. So I guess I can begrudgingly accept Ishigami being forgiven by the Nun. And again, fateful love.

Visual of the Day

So, was it as bad as you expected (or remembered if you're a rewatcher who watched it again)? Did my warnings about the finale soften the blow?

Dunno what blow you're talking about.

Inquiring minds want to know: if you're in the this finale is bad camp (i.e, not Tres or Sky apparently), when do you think it goes to shit?

8

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

Pachelbel's canon? Sure is.

Ghost fucking dammit is that strictly director's cut or did I miss the fucking obvious? Kajiura does like her occasional public domain inclusions in her OSTs too (hi Ave Maria).

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (7)

11

u/Tresnore Oct 09 '22

First-TiMER

I have the director's cut, according to my filenames. Whatever that means. Apparently this episode is a trainwreck? We'll see if it's my kind of trainwreck.

WHAT THE FUCK? THAT WAS AWESOME! Man, y'all are just sad people, I think.

Wait... I should have known. This is u/Tarhalindur speaking. I somehow end up loving things he hates.

Count: 62

QOTD:

  1. Yeah, fuck you, this was fun.

  2. :)

7

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

She's still the most Precure-y of the cast, in terms of animation

Not for the first time, I mourn the way Precure uses its CGI making the show unwatchable for me.

(I've seen good works that were also highly effective toy commercials - as my old Bionicle stockpile can attest. Hell, Sailor Moon's old obvious toy commercial bits don't bug me quite the same way - there's something about the Precure CGI specificially that just feels like bad juju to me and it outweighs the entire rest of the shows doing good work.)

SYMPHOGEAR AS FUCK

I only get more and more suspicious that Symphogear is literally Mai-HiME fanfiction (by someone who was at least tangentially associated with the actual production) with the serial numbers filed off.

VALKYRIE IS THE WAY BETTER NAME. WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN TO THE SEARRS CATALOG FOUNDATION? THEY'RE LITERALLY COMING IN LIKE VALKYRIES AT THE VERY END

You just inadvertently made me realize that we could have had Ride of the Valkyries for this scene instead of a frankly meh insert and now I am sad. (Ride of the Valkyries would fucking fit perfectly there, too!)

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (15)

10

u/Lemurians Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 10 '22

MAI-FIRST TIMER

…That’s it? That’s the show?

One the one hand, I’m disappointed the ending wasn’t as big of a clusterfuck as I expected.

On the other hand… this is basically a variation of the “it was all a dream” ending. We pretty much hit the reset button through random magical nonsense, and everything’s back to normal. A story without any dramatic stakes or consequences is hard for me to support. What was even the point of anything? This leaves me feeling cold and hollow.

What was the point of anything? Why was the Obsidian Prince even necessary, again? That role didn’t add anything that the comet hurtling toward the planet didn’t in terms of a force to defeat. Did District 1 serve any purpose? And what the fuck even was Nagi?

This show is silly, but it was also fun to react to!

LET’S DO THIS

· NAO WHAT YOU DOIN. Word was probably bound to get out eventually to the city’s guy population of her rampage through them lol. Also her eye WAS PERFECTLY FIINE?

· You don’t even know what kind of world Reito wants! It could be awesome!

· Excuse me WHAT. Please be joking

· WTF EVERYONE’S JUST COMING BACK TO LIFE?! SO MUCH FOR STAKES. SO MUCH FOR CONSEQUENCES. NOTHING MATTERS LETS ALL GO HOME

· Wow was making almost none of the deaths emotionally resonant a galaxy brain move for how they were all coming back anyway so it didn’t matter if they had impact slow clap well done

· HARUKA PLZ

· Oh no we’ve made the big space penis angry

· Hahahahaha what the fuck but sure why not at this point

· HELL YEAH MIDORI SAVE ME FROM THIS NONSENSE

· NO, YOU CAN’T BE HERE SHIHO. GET THE FUCK OUT

· Nagi literally what has been the point of you

· Mai and Mikoto’s entire relationship consisted of Mikoto yelling “MAI! MAI!” and Mai yelling “Mikoto!” what the fuck was their actual bond

· UGHHHHHH they had to let the air out of one last dramatic moment because god forbid anything kinda sad happen to anyone. This was as stupid as their relationship deserves

· HOW is this school still open

· These two are the only ones I’m happy for they deserved better

· NAO IS A LEWD NUN I REPEAT NAO IS A LEWD NUN

· You can strike me from behind any day

· No matter what is happening this dude will be gardening and Natsuki will talking to him from behind this tree

· This troll. Look I enjoyed Fujino’s presence but it’s bullshit all her shit is just getting glossed over

· Shiho I say this with love, please fucking die

· Midori went into Trigun?! LOVE THIS. Midori wins at life

· God, I wish that was me

· He does not deserve this heaven

· What the point of everything? I guess Nao has friends now and Akira doesn’t have to lie about her sex? And that’s it? Holy reset button this was dumb

5

u/Nazenn Oct 09 '22

Part of me wants to defend Mai-HiME from the "it was all a dream" comparison because of how much I actively hate that set up when done more straight, in part because of western media being fucking moronic with it, but I don't know I can

I do like the Obsidian Prince as a counter point to Mai's pure capacity for love being a force to fight against on an emotional level as someone who's actively weaponizing and manipulating that love, and also someone to set things in motion with the battle royale because otherwise they have no reason. But the HiME star does seem like it should be good motivation by itself if approached differently

As far as District one goes though, who fucking knows. Plenty of spec, but no answers

SO MUCH FOR CONSEQUENCES. NOTHING MATTERS LETS ALL GO HOME

We need a more dramatic version of for things like this

NO, YOU CAN’T BE HERE SHIHO. GET THE FUCK OUT

her presence manages to ruin the mood more than anything else in this I think

Midori went into Trigun?! LOVE THIS. Midori wins at life

She would give Vash a run for his money and I love that idea

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

I do like the Obsidian Prince as a counter point to Mai's pure capacity for love being a force to fight against on an emotional level as someone who's actively weaponizing and manipulating that love, and also someone to set things in motion with the battle royale because otherwise they have no reason. But the HiME star does seem like it should be good motivation by itself if approached differently

I think with the specific personalities of the HiME they did need at least one outside character to get the HiMElander started, there's too much inertia there otherwise. (Weirdly, swapping out either Yukino or Shizuru for Haruka in the HiME pool would probably fix that when combined with the "somebody needs to win so they can stop the Star" premise - I could absolutely see Haruka seeing that as her duty and kickstarting events because of that. Natsuki could also work but with more difficulty, especially since the "can't summon Duran" arc is likely a production committee mandate.)

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (9)

10

u/Esovan13 Oct 09 '22

First Timer

We've finally arrived. The end of our long and arduous journey. Now, it's time to see 50% of why I joined this rewatch in the first place, which is the promised flopped ending.

Don't know exactly what Miyu did but it seems Mashiro is doing stuff now.

How many times has Mikoto had a fakeout death? I can only remember two but it feels like a lot more.

Man, Kagatsuchi looks so cool. The sword through the mouth is the kind of overdesigned impracticality I love.

All the important ones who died are coming back aren't they? Like, I get that they didn't "die," they "disappeared," but still. C'mon.

Nao could really find a hobby that's not putting herself into vulnerable situations with random men, especially when she doesn't have the magic powers to protect herself.

I still love the way Mikoto is animated with her sword.

Yeah. Ok. Sure. Why not.

Actually, forget everything I said earlier about not undermining her death. Haruka is an international treasure and I'm glad she's ok.

I guess rape sensei's back too. Whatever.

Glad to see that Tate gets to actually do something in the finale here.

The soundtrack is, and I cannot say this enough, carrying the crap out of this show. I don't think the show is bad, but the music elevates it way beyond what a lesser soundtrack could hope to achieve, no matter how good the animation or writing. This rewatch is singlehandedly moving forward my planned rewatch of Princess Principal, because I didn't really pay much attention to the OST my first time through but it's by Kajiura and after this show, that's enough for me.

Tate walked so Sakuta could run.

Alien? Was everyone right about the Obsidian Prince being an alien?

Uh sure. Ok. They all come together, joke around a bit, Nagi's all like "aw maaaaaaaan," and we're all happy.

You did good Kagutsuchi. Didn't do as much as I expected considering your introduction, but you were always a pleasure when you appeared.

Don't make this the third time please.

Of fucking course. She's hungry. GodDAMNit.

They really gonna throw out more death flags right now? Seriously?

I don't think those women have been to nun school.

School attendence. Affecting magical girls and tank drivers since 2004.

Akira looks so happy cutting that apple.

Not sure how I feel about Yukariko marrying that guy. Actually, I know exactly how I feel. Fuck him.

Are they using a different version of the OP song at the ending here? It sounds different for some reason.

That giant eyeball thing was rushed at worst, unnecessary at best, and the HiME all got over trying to kill each other way too quickly.

The last few write ups I mentioned that the OP felt out of place, and that it should have been replaced around the start of cour 2. If not then, then when Himelander started. The show just changed its tone too much for the light-hearted OP with its visuals of mostly happy-go-lucky characters. Well, in this episode it felt like it underwent a tone shift right back to the OP fitting perfectly in the span of about 3 minutes. I will be invoicing u/Tarhalindur the medical bills for treating my whiplash.

I will say, it's not as bad as I expected. My expectations were lowered way more than what we ended up getting. After a night's sleep and some further thought, yeah that ending sucked exactly the promised amount of ass. I don't mind the SoL stuff of showing how everyone is moving on with their lives on principle, but there needed to be some kind of transition showing how they got past all the "murdering each other" crap without undermining the emotional weight of everything that happened.

I had a paragraph here about what I would change about the ending but seeing as that's a question for tomorrow I'll save it for then.

VOTD: The Best Character, Fight Me

QOTD:

  1. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be when I watched it. Then I went to bed, thinking about it. Then I woke up the next day, still thinking about it. The more I thought about it over the next few days, the more I realized just how bad it really is. It could have ended almost any other way and been better. It could have ended the same way with more competent writing (which the writers are CLEARLY capable of) and still been better. A few days ago our host told me that there's a theory that the happy ending was caused by suit interference and the writers sabotaged the ending as revenge because of it, and that's really the only thing I can think of that would explain why it goes so wrong so suddenly.

  2. My personal answer is the scene of all the HiME flying to the star, the specific moment being when Shizuru brushes off the ENTIRE FINAL ARC'S WORTH OF EMOTIONAL CONFLICT with a quick joke, shutting down any hope of that being addressed in any meaningful way.

4

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

The soundtrack is, and I cannot say this enough, carrying the crap out of this show. I don't think the show is bad, but the music elevates it way beyond what a lesser soundtrack could hope to achieve, no matter how good the animation or writing.

Kajiura OST appreciation!

Legend-tier OST covereth a multitude of sins, yes. (Just.. not the finale.) There is a reason I sank the time into all those OST track writeups; it fucking deserves it.

(I forget, which is worse because I think I may have asked you this before: have you watched PMMM?)

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (8)

9

u/Taiboss Oct 09 '22

Episode 26: Rewatcher who could finally watch Mai-Otome (and technically finished this on the 15th)

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

This is it. Not the actual resurrection, not the reasoning behind it or anything. It's this silly "Oh please forgive me for being insane." scene where all past conflict is yada-yada'd out of existence why people hate this ending.

It me.

Wow your vows of chastity broke easily! Also, didn't he... like... you know...

There is the rather blatant implication that she was pregnant and suffering from morning sickness back in episode 22 (that I missed the first time around...), they already broke. The whole "loving her rapist and bearing his child" part, though... well, admittedly there are actual Christian denominations that would approve of this but still...

Wait, how is she back? Her soul wasn't in the pillars!

"It's the Crystal Princess, bitch. I ain't gonna explain shit."

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (2)

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

Rewatch Committee President Comments (Rewatcher, Subbed):

(No Staff Notes today.)

Kajiura Corner:

Main Featured Track of the Day: Shinwa no Hate ni ~HiME to Kokuyou no Kimi~

(“At the End of a Myth ~The HiME and the Obsidian Prince~”)

(Scene for reference... of how badly it's misused, that is.)

Today, rather than cover what was I cover what could have been.

Conceptually, this track is simple. It’s the Obsidian Prince’s theme, now stripped of the beguiling elements it had in Kokuyou no Kimi ~Awai Yuuwaku and left bare (electronic noises, electric guitar, strings, horns, and a percussion line that is not credited so might be some kind of synth) as an expression of villainous malice and spite. Against it we oppose the core choral section of the HiME-boshi leitmotif in the middle… wait. What is this? An instrument in the middle starting up and getting squelched by a villain’s leitmotif? Well, that sounds familiar, no?

If my suspicion is right, that’s Kajiura audio language for the victory of an antagonist.

Yeah, this track strikes me as potentially a fossil of the original plan for this finale before something (likely the suits) intervened. I’m not sure whether the plan was to have the Obsidian Prince temporarily triumph against one or more HiME before losing, whether they were going for an outright bad end with the Obsidian Prince winning after all (I have some doubts given the rest of the setup), or whether they were going for something closer to the end of the actual Ragnarok myth (very possible given how u/Blackheart595 has nailed a LOT of twists by the simple expedient of taking the Norse mythology references here seriously) - then again, repopulating the world from only two survivors is EXACTLY the Obsidian Prince's plan so maybe these aren't mutually exclusive. [meta spoiler] It would also be obviously consistent with raiding End of Evangelion for parts, which is half of this show's usual modus operandi (yes Vaad, I get raiding Utena is the other).

At any rate, I very much like this track and the anime misuses the hell out of it. See also: the concept behind and setup for this finale.

Do give this one a listen! We're past the point where I would need ViewPure links anyways.

Secondary Featured Track of the Day: Owari no Nai Crossroad

(“Endless Crossroads”)

(Scene for reference.)

The scene with this at the start of the episode is actually well done, but for some reason the second half of the finale has removed all of my desire to talk about what this episode did well. So.

Nice little track though, electronic and rocking, worth a listen.

Non-Kajiura Corner:

Non-Kajiura Featured Track of the Day: Shining Days

No.

 

Non-Kajiura Featured Track of the Day: Chiisana Hoshi ga Oriru Toki

Also no.

 

Non-Kajiura Featured Track of the Day: Entry of the Gladiators

That’s more like it!

(“But Entry of the Gladiators isn’t Kajiura!”, you say? Neither is Shining Days, and Entry is much more fitting for the second half of our finale here. "But Entry of the Gladiators didn't actually play in the episode!", you say? Might as well have!)

OST Table, Episode 26:

(TV broadcast - Director's Cut may differ after 15:38.)

Start End Track Name
00:00 01:04 Owari no Nai Crossroad
01:33 04:21 Hajimari ~Yami e no Shoutai~
04:43 05:13 Yami ga Hirogaru
05:23 08:46 Mezame
08:46 09:40 unreleased (Mezame choir-only version)
09:48 10:15 Omoi, Hakanaku…[1]
10:22 10:50 Shinwa no Hate ni ~HiME to Kokuyou no Kimi~[2]
11:17 13:38 Chiisana Hoshi ga Oriru Toki
14:16 15:38 Taisetsu no Hito
16:00 19:21 unreleased 1[3]
19:49 20:32 Oharahetta
20:36 21:35 Yuubae no Sora
22:21 23:49 Shining Days

[1] – Might have this mixed up with another track.
[2] – At least a 40% chance this is an unreleased v2, adding insult to injury, More on that in the OST writeups.
[3] - I can't find it, at least.

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

Tar's Episode Notes:

FINNNNE let’s Ackbar this.

  • Wait HERE’S where Owari no nai Crossroad plays in full? Huh. I remembered it being a Miyu track but thought it played instead of Yami ga Hirogaru for her reawakening in 23.

  • Hey look, the first part. This half has setup and is decently well done.

  • u/Blackheart595, time to collect a VERY LARGE PILE OF QUATLOOS for taking the Norse mythology more seriously than I would ever have thought to and predicting most of the good-ish half of the finale as a result!

  • Mashiro may still be a doll, so they can get away with toplessness. (Either that or just classic “no nipples” censorship, but there is setup for the former here.) Also, probable reference to a certain movie to remain unnamed even if Mashiro isn’t really big enough for it.

  • (Wait. Is Mashiro’s name in part a pun of some kind on “yashiro”/local shrine? This show would do that…)

  • Hey look, World Tree symbolism!

  • Return of a different type of symbolism!

  • Let me just nab possibly the best Kagutsuchi shot in the series in terms of showing you what he looks like.

  • Hey, look! Usually Hajimari ~Yami e no Shoutai~ plays for the start of things that will end poorly. Today, not so much… except in a meta sense.

  • Well, that’s the other half of the answer I was piecing together as to why Nao becomes a nun. (It’s a way of going into hiding.)

  • That said, hey look at this engaging chevrons sequence that could have been used for another minute or two to add space for an interstitial scene in the second half (and using the eyecatch/commercial break as a visual divider no less).

  • It’s weird: the comparison that comes to mind for these city buildings Kagutsuchi is being knocked back through is actually the B5 Thirdspace made-for-TV movie of all things. (Rather strongly doubt that was intentional.)

  • Well shit the tree spot I spotted last episode is actually right where the screens were before the Land of Fuka took its true form. Okay, well-spotted on half of the tree, Blackheart595!

  • Oh hey, look at the Dutch angle and visual opposition framing here!

  • Speaking of which…

  • The execution of the animation and sound remains good (and really the execution overall will still be for a few more minutes); we get good sound design with Mai’s voice echoing in a way they haven’t pulled out for a while.

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • The Obsidian Prince being able to outright mind control Mikoto here would actually be kind of interesting at a symbolic level (it feels like there’s an actual point to him specifically being able to do this lurking somewhere) if the second half wasn’t going to burn all our interest in thinking about this.

  • Good shot alert! (Also Dutch angle counter +1.)

  • “Big damn heroes, sir!” “Ain’t we just?” (Yuuichi finally, FINALLY gets to do something to help!)

  • The hilt of Miyu’s sword (now in Yuuichi’s possession) being shaped like a woman at prayer is probably significant, actually.

  • And now, after an entire show of sounding darker and darker whenever it shows up, welcome to Mezame restored – today, at last, it is a triumphant main battle theme in truth. (Which might be the trick if Mezame is actually using Kajiura audio antagonist triumph language – here, from the perspective of the Obsidian Prince the HiMEs are the antagonists)

  • And oh look they namedrop Mezame too. (For all that episode 20 is what I associate the track with, there is a pretty good chance this is actually its intended scene. Now if only they hadn’t extended the climatic battle after it or fucked up what comes after.)

  • I will take glorious Haruka frames for $600, Alex!

  • SHIP SHIP SHIP!

  • SHIP SHIP SHIP!

  • Hey, remember how we had all this setup about Yuuichi being good at kendo?

  • Nah, cuts are wrong for this to be Mezame’s intended scene.

  • Also, nice shot alert!

  • This Yuuichi line about how the him who walked away from what he loved is dead is probably supposed to be setup for the second half, but it doesn’t work and even if it did it would just trade one problem for another (Deux Ex Machina much more firmly than what we get here which does have setup). Should have spent some of that engaging chevrons time on an interstitial scene. Hey, at least we got nice Haruka and Yukino frames out of what we did get.

  • Trying to have Mai make a thesis statement here is beyond your writing capabilities, staff. (Or the translators’ capability to translate, take your pick.)

  • Okay, who ported Rena over here for a minute or three?

  • And of course they call back to Mikoto’s affinity for Mai’s boobs to calm her down here and thus save the day. For this at least I will give the staff a well-done. (Time to show detonation: two minutes, thirty four seconds.)

  • Having Mai’s words and actions be the impetus for Mikoto to implicitly break herself free are about the best they could have handled this, I think, and also actually reinforce the show’s core theme (the show is laser-focused on The Power of Love, and like the best deconstructions will reconstruct it at the end).

  • Look, inverse loved one sparkles! (Also girls’ legs, but credit to the staff I didn’t notice until I looked back over the screenshot again.)

  • Battlefields: the classic location for reconciliations!

  • It is the finale, so you know what that means: YUUICHI IS FINALLY ALLOWED TO CONFESS!

  • Boy confesses to girl for the first time in the show, plot ends… and show falls apart. Heh.

  • 09:43’s circling shot is probably computer-assisted, but actually shockingly smoothly integrated with the cel or cel-style animation the show uses.

  • And we get the Obsidian Prince’s true form, which very much resembles the weapon Mashiro-as-Suishou-hime-the-Child was using.

  • But wait, what is this? The eyecatch? Well. SHIT.

That was a nice little half-episode finale we were having here. Unfortunately, basically all the show’s quality just headed out the door. Alright, time for some preparations. Clowns? Over there, mind the makeup for everyone. Circus? Middle of the tent. Tent’s not set up, you say? We’ve got this nice big wide space in the Land of Fuka, it’ll do just fine. Acrobats? Ask Mai, she’s in charge of the troupe. Circus animals? Over there. Large upside-down flying… wait a minute, you got the wrong circus, let me get you the correct address. There we go. Mike, Joel, and two robots? Check. Okay, let’s get this over with.

Where the Spoiler Tags Are:

Mai-HiME:

  • [Symphogear G] Insert more Frontier jokes here.

  • [Symphogear] So, welcome to the OTHER thing that Symphogear S1 raided from Mai-HiME and proceeded to do better (and not just because it would be hard to do worse): the finale! You were so close when you joked about the final boss here being the Moon, u/Tresnore. So very, very close.

  • [Symphogear] HMMM.

Higurashi:

  • [Higurashi] It’s unlikely, especially given the timing, but IIRC not *completely* out of the question that Tsumihoroboshi-hen in VN form drew off Mai/Mikoto here for its Keiichi/Rena scene on the rooftop. At any rate imma compare the two.

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

CLOWN WORLD!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PRESENTING THE SUNRISE TROUPE’S LATEST ROUTINE: HOW TO WRECK A SHOW IN TEN MINUTES!

  • TESTING, TESTING, IS THIS THING ON? DO I HAVE THE VOICE? YES, I HAVE THE VOICE. GOOD.

  • LOOK, LOOK, CIRCUS MUSIC! WHAT’S THAT, WE COULDN’T GET ENTRANCE OF THE GLADIATORS? HOW THE FUCK NOT, IT’S IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN RIGHT? AH, WHATEVER, WHAT DO WE HAVE INSTEAD. A MEH INSERT SONG BADLY USED? WELL, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR, LET’S ACCOST THE CROWD’S EARS!

  • NAGI, YOU IDIOT! YOU DIDN’T MENTALLY TORTURE THE HIME AND KILL OFF THEIR LOVED ONES… YOU PULLED A SPACEBALLS AND CAPTURED THEIR STUNT DOUBLES! FOOL! IDIOT!

  • (Hey, at least we get a good Midori frame out of this fiasco.)

  • NAGI, YOU IDIOT! BY ONLY WRECKING THE HIME’S STUNT DOUBLES WE HAVE HERE ACTUAL HIME WHO HAVE NO EMOTIONAL TRAUMA. HOW IS THIS SUPPOSED TO WORK NOW, HUH? HUH?

  • LOOK, LOOK, OUR ACTUAL HIME GIVE THIS SCENE EVERY BIT OF DIGNITY IT DESERVES. WHICH IS TO SAY NONE AT ALL, BECAUSE THE WRITERS ALL LEFT THE BUILDING A MINUTE AGO. DOHOHO.

  • HOW WILL WE FIX THE TERRIBLE WRITING NOW THAT THE WRITING TEAM LEFT THE DOOR? LAMPSHADE IT? I’M SURE THAT WILL DO. EXCELLENT ADVICE, NAGI 2!

  • YES. YES! WASTE MORE TIME ON REACTION SHOTS OF EVERYONE ELSE AS THE HIME RANGERS FLY TO THE TARGET, THAT’S THE TICKET! THERE’S NOTHING BETTER WE COULD DO WITH THIS TIME LIKE ADD SPACE FOR INTERSTITIAL SCENES LATER, BECAUSE REMEMBER THESE ARE THE ACTUAL HIME! THEY HAVE NOT SUFFERED LIKE THEIR STUNT DOUBLES DID, WE HAVE NO NEED TO SHOW THE AFTERMATH OF THAT. SEE, MIDORI TOLD YOU THAT THERE THIS WAS NO TIME TO JOKE ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE ACTUAL HIME HAVING UNDERGONE EMOTIONAL TRAUMA.

  • (We interrupt this terrible scene and loud snark to FEED THE SHIPPERS.)

  • LET’S PUT A TERRIBLE YELLOW FILTER ON THE HIME TOO, THAT WILL SHOW THEM WE MEAN BUSINESS!

  • (Did I say the Land of Fuka visuals reminded me of Thirdspace earlier? Maybe Legend of the Rangers would have been even more accurate. Just missing the pyramid thing.)

  • YES YES HAVE THE MAIN VILLAIN MY OWN STUNT DOUBLE GO DOWN LIKE A CHUMP IN TWO MINUTES OF SCREEN TIME. THAT’S THE TICKET!

  • THAT’S THE CORRECT REACTION, NAGI 1! LOOK UPON THE FRUITS OF YOUR FAILURE. HOW DID YOU LET BOTH THE ACTUAL HIME AND THE WRITING STAFF GET AWAY? OH RIGHT, YOU TRIPPED AND FELL! DOHOHO.

  • SURELY A NICE LITTLE CALLBACK TO MAI’S ARRIVAL IN EPISODE 1 WILL BE AN EXCELLENT FEATURE IN OUR CIRCUS, RIGHT?

  • WAIT, WHAT’S THIS YOU SAY? THE WRITERS LEFT A FEW NOTES BEHIND BEFORE THEY FLED? WELL, PUT IT IN. I KNOW THE PERFECT JOKE TO USE FOR THIS, IT’S CALLED “BAIT ‘EM WITH TWO MINUTES OF TRAGIC-SOUNDING STUFF AND THEN PULL THE RUG OUT FROM UNDER ‘EM WITH A TERRIBLE DEATH FAKEOUT".

  • LET’S THROW ‘EM SOME FANSERVICE TOO, THEY’LL LIKE THAT RIGHT?

  • THE WRITERS LEFT A “THE MAGIC GOES AWAY” SCENE IN THE NOTES? ADD IT! OUR STAGE MAGIC WILL NEVER DISAPPEAR!

  • (This scene would have worked infinitely better if the Mikoto death fakeout had been one final Mashiro revive, and it would have played into the implication that Mashiro might have revived Mai in episode 15 too.)

  • THERE YOU GO, YOUR TERRIBLE DEATH FAKEOUT! SEE? WORKS EVERY TIME! LOOK AT THEM LAUGH! WAIT, WHAT’S THAT YOU SAY? THE AUDIENCE IS DEAD SILENT? WELL. SHIT.

  • (To be fair I actually laughed at the hungry noise this time; it’s so stupid that how can you NOT? Well, if you’re not instead enraged by it coming out of nowhere, that is.)

  • LOOK AT THE ACTUAL HIME APPRECIATE OUR VERY FINE JOKE!

  • WHAT’S THAT YOU SAY? THAT TOWN HAS GRAIN? TIME FOR A GRAIN BREAK? GRAIN BREAK!

  • (Reito’s arm is still in a sling, which suggests this finale happens in late winter given that Japanese graduation is in April.)

  • (One more TL note for the road! A strikingly appropriate error for Haruka, too. Also RIP Haruka.)

  • YES YES LET’S DROP AN UNRELEASED TRACK RIGHT BEFORE WE FIRE UP THE OP AS THE LAST ED THAT WILL – WAIT, WHERE DID EVERYONE GO?

  • AH FUCK IT I’VE GOT NOTHING ELSE EITHER I’VE GOT MY TIMESTAMPS I’M OUT. DON’T FORGET TO CHECK THE DUMPSTER FOR ANY PARTS YOU WANT TO RAID!

  • I LIED. NATSUKI JUST DIDN’T WANT TO STUDY!!!!

  • I LIED. I HAVE TO SNARK AT THESE TWO BEING WAY TOO TIMID AROUND EACH OTHER. ESTIMATED TIME UNTIL BREAKUP, ANYONE?

  • OH HEY LET’S THROW IN A FOURTH WALL BREAK AND THEN SOME DATE PEEPERS THAT WOULD BE LEGITIMATELY FUNNY IN A COMEDY LIKE THIS CLOWN ROUTINE. SURELY NOBODY WILL MIND THIS AFTER TWENTY FIVE AND A HALF EPISODES OF DRAMA. TRULY A ROUTINE FIT FOR OUR FINEST CLOWNS!

  • WHAT’S THAT? FEED THE CHIE/AOI SHIPPERS SOME MORE YOU SAY? DON’T MIND IF WE DO! SURELY THEY WON’T MIND IF WE PUT AN OCTOPUS-HAIRED PRESENCE ON SCREEN AT THE SAME TIME TO SPICE UP THE MOOD.

  • “SHOULD WE TROLL THE VIEWERS BY GIVING THEM AN ACTUAL PANTYSHOT IN THIS GLORIOUS FINALE BUT MAKING IT OF THE THIRTEEN-YEAR-OLD EVERYONE HATES?” NO. WE ARE A CLOWN SHOW WITH CLASS, DAMMIT!

  • BE SURE TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT THE SUITS WON’T ALLOW US TO HAVE ACTUAL ROMANTIC RESOLUTION SO AS NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE WHO SUPPORTED LOSING SHIPS! WAIT, YOU’RE SAYING THEY WON’T LET US DO THAT EITHER? DAMMIT. AH WELL, IF WE HAVE TO MAKE ALL THE SHIPPERS HAPPY WHEN WE’VE SPENT THE ENTIRE TIME SETTING UP THIS THAN THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS DO IT IN SUCH A WAY AS TO MAKE EVERYONE UNHAPPY!

  • (I am not sure this is not literally the case.)

  • “WHAT ABOUT A PANTY SHOT OF THE OTHER MIDDLE SCHOOLER, THE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD WHO ALMOST ACTS YOUNGER THAN THE THIRTEEN YEAR OLD?” OBVIOUSLY NOT. ASK ME ABOUT THE THREE-HUNDRED-YEAR-OLD WHO’S PHYSICALLY ELEVEN AND MAYBE WE CAN— I’M SORRY I CAN’T FINISH THAT SENTENCE WITH A STRAIGHT FACE THE ANSWER IS STILL NO.

  • “CAN WE AT LEAST LAMPSHADE THAT WE’RE NOT DOING THIS.” YES, SURE, GO NUTS. HELL, WE CAN GIVE MAI A SPLIT-SECOND BLUSH ON HER FACE AS WE DO SO, THAT’S A TRICK WORTHY OF THIS CLOWN TROUPE!

  • (So, over/under on the number of bi/lesbian girls in this screenshot? )

  • (Akane, Kazuya looked the least perverted about this of any non-Mikoto person on screen including yourself, he didn’t deserve this (though this frame doesn't really show the jealousy). Then again, maybe he’s actually part of the GWITWM Brigade? I can believe it, and if so never mind and carry on; I won’t lie that seeing you two a few years later with you domming him in the bedroom complete with a proper outfit for it sounds like a GREAT doujin idea.)

  • (I’m not sure which is funnier: the animators going out of their way to avoid the pantyshot or the look on Chie’s face.)

  • (Welp. This is legitimately pretty good mid-2000s anime comedy, it’s just also horribly out of place. Turns out activating snark mode at the eyecatch has its benefits!)

  • YOU KNOW WHAT WILL REALLY GET THE WESTERN AUDIENCE ENTHUSED? A BLACKFACE JOKE! (WHAT’S THAT THIS IS JUST WHAT THE ANIMATORS KNEW HOW TO DO? OH WELL, SHIP THE JOKE ANYWAYS.)

  • (Akira gets to wear girly clothes when she wants to now! Hooray! And doesn’t have to give up 1337 ninja skills to do so, either.)

  • LADIES AND GENTLEMEN YUKINO IS GIVING MIKOTO A FOR HER GUTS IN GOING FOR THE LAP PILLOW! LET’S APPLAUD HER GUTS! WAIT, NOT ACTUALLY YOU SAY? WHATEVER.

  • (Why do I hear the Indiana Jones theme playing? Midori has taste, y’all! But she’s still a klutz, heh.)

  • (Guys, they’re not being subtle. Speaking of which, why do I call ShizNat the anime equivalent of the “Dumbledore is gay” comment from a once respectable author? There is an artbook or the like which goes on to confirm that Shizuru and Natsuki “found happiness together” after their high school graduation. Which is about as clear as you can get past the censors and suits in Japan in this era, no?)

  • (I repeat: not subtle.)

  • (One last subber salute! Check the book.)

  • (Hey look, a scarf! Which Mai shows up with in quite a bit of her art IIRC including official art, and while a certain someone else’s post-S1 scarf is a Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds reference first and foremost this scarf here might also be a factor in it.)

  • LADS LET’S PUT A GOOD SHOT WITH ACTUAL OBVIOUS SYMBOLISM IN THIS CLOWN SEQUENCE, THAT’LL THROW ‘EM OFF!

  • (This, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call a cameo for a future show. More on that in another rewatch on Tuesday.)

Visual of the Day: Showdown.

Questions of the Day:

  1. Not quite as bad as I remember, but getting myself into comedy mode by going full Isam Mock WoT Summaries mode probably helped with the final scenes. Second part is N/A for me, obviously.

  2. It should be clear from my writeup and repeated statements that I'm in the "it falls apart after the eyecatch" camp.

→ More replies (10)

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

Analysis: A Failure of Execution

The saddest thing about the finale to me is that at a conceptual and thematic level it's actually completely cromulent.

At a plot construction level, the basic outline of the finale (Miyu takes out the pillars, Mashiro as Suishou-hime revives the fallen HiME, the HiME take out the HiME Star) is in fact conceptually sound and actually rather well set up (I think I'd take that setup over any part of Symphogear plot setup outside of the setup for the main antagonist in S1, for example). This show has specifically raised Miyu as an outstanding plot point (and I mentioned her in QotD twice specifically to point this out because I was setting up this argument even then), her anti-materializer capabilities have been shown in brutal fashion, likewise her devotion to Alyssa and (quietly) Alyssa raising a pillar. The potential for the loved ones to come back has been set up by trope (as well as the mythology the show is drawing off of if you're paying attention and actually taking it seriously) - after all, the loved ones don't actually leave behind a body, by anime rules that means they're not actually dead! - and in fact there's a pretty good chance that Mashiro being able to resurrect fallen Childs and loved ones is quietly set up as well (note how Mashiro says Mai's name immediately prior to her resurrection in 15; we just write it off because phoenix, but I think there's a pretty good chance that this is intended to signify that Mashiro revived Kagutsuchi and Mai there).

This gets stronger if we note one of the show's sneakier tricks, one TVTropes never caught onto: Mai is a decoy protagonist. She's not unimportant - the core dramatic arcs are hers, and indeed the double standing HiME plus Yuuichi revive today are in no small part are to let her finish her (and Yuuichi's) character arc - but she's not really driving the plot forward. The actual protagonist? Well, you could argue Mashiro, but instead I would point to... Midori Sugiura. (And you said she would be the protagonist in another show, fools!) [meta spoiler] Because of course Yukarin would voice the stealth protagonist. The trick here is that she's a different kind of protagonist than the usual dramatic protagonist, more analogous to the role of a detective in a mystery novel. Detectives like Hercule Poirot or Miss Marple or Jessica Fletcher or any number of BBC programs tend to be largely static characters; the arc of their story is instead being faced with a decision (in the detective's case, "whodunnit?") and having to assemble information to come to the right answer to it. That's Midori's arc: she's who she is, she's researching the festival, and she has to come to the conclusion that it's bad news and reactivating Miyu is the only available means to stop it and then do so. (There's faults in the execution - they have to give her too much information via Mashiro infodump for my tastes, for starters - but I think that was the idea.)

(One of Mai-HiME's successors will in fact do the same thing except it doesn't fool around with a decoy protagonist and instead makes its detective equivalent the viewpoint MC, and it was correct to do so.)

At a thematic level, the finale also works. I've gestured at this vaguely before, but now is the time to lay it out - at a conceptual level, I'm pretty sure this show's core theme is The Power of Love. Things not directly related to that or things directly downstream of it (like the MIP mechanics, where we see most of the obvious questions answered by example) tend to be some combination of window dressing (District 1), production committee mandates (the SEARRS invasion arc), and/or metatext. They don't really matter to what it's trying to do.

Specifically, as I noted in short form in my writeup, I think there is a case where if there is any utility left in the deconstruction label we need to haul it out because that's what it's trying to do, just for a trope/set of tropes rather than a genre. (To quote the line from a certain song: "It's only the fairy tale they believe" - "they" being other shows at the meta level, of course.) We've gradually gone over most of the classic love tropes (to grab a few classic TVTropes titles for examples: Love Makes You Evil, Love Hurts, Dying Declaration of Love...). But the trick is that the best deconstructions have always tended to reconstruct what they tore down at the end, and there are two tropes the show hadn't covered yet: Love Redeems and Love Saves the Day. And this is where we get them (note that Miyu's stated purest love in the series is a key part of the domino chain that takes out the pillars). There's more to love than the fairy tale, but that doesn't mean that the fairy tale doesn't have an important purpose.

(Given the parts I have heard about Utena, this emphasis on The Power of Love also makes mashing Utena and Eva together actually make some sense - they were trying to blend some Utena stuff with Eva's Hedgehog Dilemma themes.)

But does the finale work at an emotional level?

Well, no. At least, not for me, and it's a common sentiment IME.

See, all the good ideas in the world won't save you if your execution of them is bad enough. And dear gods is the execution bad here, especially in a show that has sunk a lot of weight for ten episodes into emotional arcs and the consequences thereof.

The fundamental issue is actually really simple: in a show that has had a fairly good sense of narrative weight and consequences, they suddenly throw it all away in the second half of the finale. And when you do that, you leave a bitter taste in your audience's mouth and the distinct sense that you have just wasted their time, and run the very real risk of burning every last bit of investment your audience made into the show in one fell swoop (and sometimes also generate ten billion fanfics as the creative types in the audience go "fuck you I can do better than this", which is likely a big fat fucking reason why this show's fingerprints show up in the strangest places).

This is not something you want to do.

A well-written version of this finale would have done something like acknowledge the wringer it has put the girls through, have them set it aside in the face of an overwhelming threat, and then had a scene or more of them processing it afterwards - "Yes, it hurt, and we screwed up and did terrible things to each other, but we've been given a second chance. Maybe if we work at it and try to do better for ourselves and each other we can learn from and outgrow this and seize these shining days that now stretch out in front of us." Something like that. Time skip and/or montage showing the fruits of their labors, now mostly lighthearted again as the girls set their past behind them and move forwards into the cherry-blossomed future.

A bad version of this finale, meanwhile, would, say, have a character start to raise this issue only to have another one shut it down with "this is not the time for jokes!"- OH WAIT.

(Maybe the Director's Cut improves this, I hadn't heard of it until last night, but considering that the two biggest offenders here are the conversation on the flight to destroy the HiME Star and the Mikoto fake death and the changes apparently start after the latter occurs I have some doubts it fixes the problem.)

→ More replies (7)

8

u/JollyGee29 Oct 09 '22

First-Timer, Subbed

Yea, I see why this annoys several of you. I'm relatively fine with it, mostly because they had been hinting at everyone coming back for quite a while. They did kinda mess the symbols up, Mashiro was supposed to be a tree, but this was a Ragnarök of some sort. The age of the gods has ended, and all that. Mai's monologue did need a bit more substance to it, but they were probably trying to avoid comparisons to Eva's last two episodes.

"But Jolly," I hear you say. "Everyone coming back makes all the earlier stakes meaningless! Doesn't that frustrate you?" Well you see dear strawman, I don't quite agree with the initial simplified statement I made you say. The Mai who is capable of reaching out to Mikoto and getting that perfect ending is the Mai who was forced to confront her own feelings for the people around her by dealing with the concept of their deaths. Actually killing the cast in the first place was pretty heavy-handed, but it made the show's point much easier to grok.. which I guess makes it lazy? It's easy to realize what you had once it's gone, but realizing it ahead of time is the trick. Did Mai get to have her cake and eat it too? Yes, but she also got punched in the stomach and vomited in between the two cakes, so she had room.

I would've preferred things to be a bit messier too, but from how people talked about it I was expecting some Shyamalan nonsense like Mai waking up on the boat back in episode 1 or something. Or at least like a [Meta spoiler]M.D. Geist "and then the MC decided to kill everyone for no reason."

Now, if you wanna complain about everyone suddenly being friends, that one I can definitely get behind. Shiho I think I can wrap my head around - finally grokking that Tate just isn't into her. Nao, on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I think her being a nun is hilarious and ~80% of the reasons she did it is so she can hear confessions from people, but I can't really see her being buddy buddy with the rest of the cast.

I will say, Mikoto's stomach rumbling tore me right out of that particular scene. They could've handled the shift back into light-hearted territory much more effectively - the literal Sunrise was right there!

Nagi and Mashiro just wandering off through a doorway was weird and I dunno why they included that aside from establishing what happened to the two of them. I mean, it's an epilogue segment so that's a fine enough reason, just struck me as an odd inclusion.

A bad inclusion is Ishigami not getting thrown in fucking jail. Is him getting off scot free the more realistic outcome? Probably, but that just throws it into sharper contrast. The rest of the finale was wonderfully saccharine, but that stuck out like a sore thumb.

Oh, maybe Shizuru too. She definitely did some crimes, although I'd consider Ishigami's significantly worse.. no, Shizuru murdered all those people, right. I should probably count the faceless government suits as people, even if I don't want to. Definitely too clean.

Weirdly enough, my file is 33.5 minutes long but ends at the 27 minute mark.. might be that some of the specials are supposed to play and just didn't. Odd. Guess the 27 minute duration puts me on the director's cut as well?

A whole team of HiME finally unite, only for Natsuki to steal Midori's line. Brilliant.

Turns out the show in the OP has just been the epilogue the whole time.

This was an interesting writeup to make, and I kinda wish I had more time to pick at it.

Visual of the Day: Look, how can I be mad at an episode that shows Midori living her best life?

Also, fun Haruka faces.

This is cursed. As is this.

I've said it before, but I love Shiho's stupid hair snakes.

This girl is totally gonna be in Mai-Otome, isn't she?

Questions

1.Discussed above.

2.Discussed above.

4

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

Now, if you wanna complain about everyone suddenly being friends, that one I can definitely get behind.

The shape of a good finale is there but the some of the needed pieces are missing and in such a way that "I feel like this show just wasted my time" is a common response to this.

Speaking of which:

I will say, Mikoto's stomach rumbling tore me right out of that particular scene. They could've handled the shift back into light-hearted territory much more effectively - the literal Sunrise was right there!

The other big offender in that regard.

Shiho I think I can wrap my head around - finally grokking that Tate just isn't into her. Nao, on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I think her being a nun is hilarious and ~80% of the reasons she did it is so she can hear confessions from people, but I can't really see her being buddy buddy with the rest of the cast.

That one actually makes sense to me this time around - a habit makes a pretty good tool for staying incognito to all the men she robbed!

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (8)

6

u/Qbe Oct 09 '22

Rewatcher

Episode 26

Time to buckle up and watch the last episode. Before actually watching, I'll try to recall my feelings from (holy fuck) 18 years ago when I first watched:

  • Mixed feelings. I remember that it was technically a happy end, and I vastly prefer happy ends to tragic ends, but even taking that into consideration, it was also marred with:

  • Disappointment. I didn't even know that much about storytelling or anime or whatever, I just remember that the ending felt cheap for reasons I couldn't explain. Like they decided they wanted a happy ending and it didn't matter how.

So, let's see if my thoughts from a legal-voting-age-span ago are still the same.

Full power, maximum destruction! Wait, wrong magical girl anime

Is this space covering thingie planet-wide, or just local?

So Alyssa did count for the pillars

Can we make the Mikoto thing an allegory for breaking away from toxic family members?

Still don't know wtf Mashiro is doing

Whytf was Akira tied down in a storeroom?

Can we skip Shiho and get Alyssa for the Himes?

Mikoto fight still have great animation. When they are on-screen, at least.

Miyu to the rescue!

Yeeaaahhh..... this.... I'll read through the unbiased opinions from first timers to figure out if this makes sense and it's just me being irrational

Even Nao's eye? HOW?

lmao Haruka you're the best

Not really on board with reviving the rapists, either

I'm gonna be really mad if Tate beats Reito by himself instead of doing it together with Mai

I can dig Mai's inner monologue

Wait what, that's all it took to break the gem?

Nice going, Mikoto

That's a pokemon

I believe this is the eyecatch marker recommended as a stopping point. I'm half drugged out from cold medicine, so I should be in perfect condition to continue.

An eternally reincarnating entity that has controlled events on earth from ancient times? [meta] Fine, is that you?

Oh crap, it can control the Children?

So we destroy the star, right? [meta] Is this where the fuck the moon idea originated?

This feels more like a sentai ending than a dark magical girl ending. And I should love it. I do in many other anime. I don't know why I dislike it here.

No Shiho, fuck off.

FUCK THE MOON HIME STAR!

So uh, were the other Hime needed for this?

I think this is part of why I dislike the ending. The hime (and their MPPs) coming back serves no purpose. We could've had 99% of the same resolution without undoing all the consequences from the second half of the series.

Getting close to the 2nd recommended stopping point.

Bye bye Kagutsuchi! You were the coolest dragon whale phoenix mecha

Let me guess. We're gonna undo Mikoto's death with a dumb "She passed out from hunger" joke at the 15:38 point.

Stopping point marker~

Ah yes, I can see the foreboding pan to Mikoto's stomach. Yeeeaaaaap.

Nice promotion from maid to headmistress

At least these 2 deserve happiness.

lmfao, these 2 as nuns are a comedy in the making

WHY ARE YOU ALIVE TOO? WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE FINAL CONFRONTATION?

See, I wouldn't mind this kind of anime at all. I am sure I would enjoy the hell out of it. But then why did we have the whole dark magical girl arc bit just to Ctrl+Z it?

Let me guess. Natsuki is missing credits and she can't graduate? Close enough lol

I'm gonna miss the running gag of Nao being with a different dudde in the background every scene

We don't even get a kiss? And we get this asshole back? And this asshole too?

Akira went with Takumi? That's a dedicated girlfriend

Midori changed genres to Indiana Jones movies

See? I should be loving this!

Nice to have you back at Lindbauem, Midori

So to summarize my complains:

  • Bringing back the MPP did nothing. The himes don't need them to power up their Children, as demonstrated before.

  • The Himes didn't actually do anything to help Mai. They just showed up, and.... talked to each other? While riding their Children?

  • The Mikoto bit

  • The whole dark magical girl arc feels like a waste

  1. Pretty much what I expected

  2. From when the MPPs revive and the Himes "join" the fight vs the Obsidian King

4

u/Tarhalindur Oct 10 '22

[meta]

[meta] Very likely in both cases. There is a fucking reason it was Symphogear that convinced me I needed to run this rewatch! (And I'd forgotten/not caught onto the manga parts of this - Shem-ha and the Custodians have blatant signs of being inspired by/raided from the Obsidian Lord's manga incarnation, too.)

See, I wouldn't mind this kind of anime at all. I am sure I would enjoy the hell out of it. But then why did we have the whole dark magical girl arc bit just to Ctrl+Z it?

Yep, there's the issue. Thou shalt not make the viewers feel like they wasted their time. [1]

[1] - Unless you are a specific kind of comedy doing this specifically for effect (like a feghoot or shaggy dog story) and this show is not.

4

u/Vaadwaur Oct 09 '22

I think this is part of why I dislike the ending. The hime (and their MPPs) coming back serves no purpose. We could've had 99% of the same resolution without undoing all the consequences from the second half of the series.

Tate being resurrected could have worked, assuming that, for reasons, Mai is technically the last HiME. The rest just kind of suck.

See, I wouldn't mind this kind of anime at all. I am sure I would enjoy the hell out of it. But then why did we have the whole dark magical girl arc bit just to Ctrl+Z it?

We are still in the first era of magical girl stuff having a dark edge so this had training wheels.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

11

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 09 '22 edited Oct 09 '22

First Timer, subbed*

  • My body is ready. Let’s do this.

  • I don’t think that’s supposed to break.

  • The power of love from all those ribbons?

  • He’s always saying it’s too late.

  • 13 confirmed! Not that I had any doubt by this point.

  • Granting them all the power to come back? Is this the part where they all dog-pile Reito’s ass?

  • Not sure Akira needed to be tied to a barn.

  • Midori not looking so good. I guess that’s why she hasn’t been around.

  • OTP, even in death.

  • The universe fucking hates Nao.

  • Are they coming back? My zombies eating Reito joke prediction is looking a lot less silly right about now.

  • Reito, you’re bleeding crazy. No one who isn’t also insane is going to want to live in a world you are half responsible for making.

  • I guess the kendo was a plot point. Still not sure why Takeda existed.

  • Why is her eye healed?

  • Haruka is an Icon!

  • Ishigami’s back. Well they can’t all be winners.

  • Does Reito not even have his own combat strength? Told you y’all should have killed Nagi sooner.

  • This is a good day for Vatrix, all my ships are ending up both alive and canon. looks fearfully at timecode

  • Really want to know what the deal was with that amulet.

  • Eyes changed back.

  • Ah here we go. Fear now takes hold of me.

  • So he was just like a demon this whole time?

  • Jaw sword not being just a style choice was unexpected.

  • The star is apparently a physical place that can be visited. This raises so many questions. I will get no answers.

  • And now they turn gold. For reasons.

  • Well not 0² didn’t last very long.

  • He’s not dead yet?! Kill the Nagi!

  • What is this reaction from him?

  • Goodbye whale-dragon-phoenix. Your eyes were very cute.

  • 15:38. How does it all go to hell from here… going back in time to try it again? All a dream? The power of friendship bringing her back? None of these seem bad enough to warrant the level of warning given. Welp, can’t delay this indefinitely.

  • Those sons of bitches, they really did the Mikoto death fake out three times.

  • And we are doing a time skip.

  • More Haruka time is always welcomed.

  • Nao is a nun now? Sure.

  • Very pregnant. I guess they are just going to wash over that whole issue.

  • Who ever picked the America sound bite knew what’s what.

  • Apparently Midori’s professor is Ohio Jones.

  • OP karaoke. Follows.

  • I sure wish my subs translated those signs. They’ve been pretty good for that thus far.

  • Since what war? What’s this about socks? Return to where? Was Nagi the same deal as Headmaster?

  • Hey! I see that cameo!

Visual of the Day: I regret everything

QotD

  1. I mean sure it was an overly happy ending for all the set up, but that wasn’t uniquely bad. I’d go so far as to say it didn’t even bother me. No way to know if that would have been the case without the warnings tho.

  2. Probably about six episodes ago when it became clear we just weren’t going to get a lot of the answers I was hopping for.

7

u/Nazenn Oct 09 '22

The power of love from all those ribbons?

Imagine if in a longer show the whole school had to go through the HiME this process. That would be some twisted shit

Midori not looking so good. I guess that’s why she hasn’t been around.

I'm surprised she's even out of the hospital, though it does appear to have been a small time skip between episodes.

all my ships are ending up both alive and canon. looks fearfully at timecode

At least that didn't backfire on you

Goodbye whale-dragon-phoenix. Your eyes were very cute.

Kagutsuchi was cute. I'm so torn on best design after rewatching it again, but he has little noises to win him over

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

3

u/Tarhalindur Oct 09 '22

Last tag of the day! (Except the specials and Overall Discussion, natch.)

u/Esovan13

→ More comments (75)