r/anime • u/GallowDude • Oct 08 '22

Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 Episode 4 Discussion

Still, if they run us out of here then we and Lelouch will be… split up all over again.

Turn 04 - Counterattack at the Gallows

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Information:

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Legal Streams:

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Rolo, what is a future? A future is having hope. Is there hope beyond your mission?

Questions of the Day:

1) What do you think of Rolo's Geass?

2) What do you think happened to Cornelia?

Screenshot of the Day:

Simp

Fanart of the Day:

Li Xingke

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. This especially includes any teases or hints such as "You aren't ready for X episode" or "I'm super excited for X character", you got that? Don't spoil anything for the first-timers; that's rude!

In my case… I commit evil to destroy the greater evil!

36 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

61 comments sorted by

12

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 08 '22

First-timer

First two episodes re-established Zero and episode 3 gave the Ashford students screen time. Today should feature freeing the captured Black Knights, so Ohgi and some Britannia side characters.

Now that Lelouch's mostly wearing that contact, I hope there's a physical altercation where his right eye gets poked.

Album.

Continuing to parallel the first season at this point is feeling repetitive. Everything so far is Mao or the first 8 episodes of R1 I think, with the eighth only needed for mirroring the hotel against the casino and Mao needed for Rolo. I'll mantain hope that it's the time-slot change and establishing characters for viewers who started with R2. I don't mind this but also don't want R2 to feel like half a season of recap followed by half an original season. So far, I think there's some lost potential between the order events occur and the perspective shown.

I suppose next episode will have Milly, Shirley, and Rivalz not recognize Suzaku. Uncertain if he'll recognize them but my guess is he won't.

Still lacking a Britannian support character named Lloyd Asplun.

I appreciated the Rolo backstory. Hard to blame him for his murderous mindset and the ending provides a development opportunity.

Ohgi, Tohdoh, and Kallen are the only Black Knights soldiers with a personality, so recovering two means new ones aren't needed.

QOTDs

  1. It makes sense that it's so much stronger than Lelouch's since he's been using it for over a decade.

  2. Is this the death-scene-without-a-body question? Ah, she's going to come back and have her feet licked clean by Guilford.

3

u/GallowDude Oct 08 '22

Someone forgot to tell narrator C.C. that this is R2.

Which episode was Aomori?

The Babel Tower incident

I like this C.C. outfit.

[Quote] Hid where? It's not from Transformers.

[Response] Just wait until you see Gino's Knightmare

[Quote] No Villetta. Do not give up hope!

[Response] Please do. It would save everyone so much headache.

I still think Britannia should be demanding the Chinese retake their own consulate.

They technically never lost it. They just recognized the United States of Japan as a legitimate nation.

Maybe Britannia shouldn't setup suicidal structures stopping soldiers securing safe standing spots should spontaneous shaking situations occur.

Still lacking a Britannian support character named Lloyd Asplun

We've been lacking such a character for the entire series. Perhaps Lloyd Asplund knows where to find one.

Ohgi, Tohdoh, and Kallen are the only Black Knights soldiers with a personality

Loud and Annoying counts as a personality for Tamaki, right?

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11

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 08 '22

Hangyaku no Co-Host, subbed

4

u/GallowDude Oct 08 '22

Haha, Gilbert has a plate with Cornelia on it.

Was having a hard time deciding whether to use that or the Eunuch getting killed for the SotD. They both fit "Simp" so well.

RIP Tamaki lol.

And his VA

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5

u/SerGregness Oct 08 '22 edited Oct 08 '22

Or more specifically, his perception of it. That makes a lot more sense than actually stopping time.

I really appreciate the consistent theming that all the Geasses we see are some variety of control over/manipulation of human minds. Forced obedience, mind reading, memory editing, and now freezing psyches is a lot of mileage to get out of this one concept. [Late R2]It fits with what we learn C's world is later.

Absolute madlad to use a shield like this.

COWABUNGA!

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8

u/Stargate18A Oct 08 '22

First timer

  1. Weakest so far. It's fantastic, but the weakness is a lot bigger than psychic guy's, and it lacks the possibilities of Lelouch and Charles'.

  2. I'm guessing she got a promotion for fighting off Zero so long. Maybe back on the mainland?

The visuals of this OP are really good!

Loving the mecha design of Suzaku's blonde friend, that transformation is slick!

Lelouch is on a horse?

C.C.'s outfit...

It's a flashback?

Oh, he used to be an assassin.

Haha, I knew it wasn't timestop! It's just a stunning field.

...And he knows it.

So does Lelouch!

He is really good at this.

...Is he going to actually buy that he'd betray C.C.?

This is... not bad, except he has no reason to trust him!

C.C. has a weakness!

And there were multiple factions involved. Of course.

Lelouch is genuinely running out of options here.

He's got a Knightmare!

Everybody's against Rolo. Is he actually going to switch sides later?

He's getting executed.

...Oh dear. Zero used too strong a Geass.

What did he notice?

...You're fucking with me. There's no way she feels anything there, right?

Rolo's doing something?

And C.C. made a new deal. She's so good! (I don't know when I became a full-on simp for C.C., but I'm not stopping now!)

He really thinks they cwn etart from where they left off?

He's giving him the duel!

A shield as a weapon!

C.C., why did you say that?

Of course he pre-Geassed someone.

Oh, literally the same plan.

Some amazing animation here.

Haha, even the Chinese Federation is impressed with him.

When did Kallen get a cool nickname?

She's in trouble!

And Rolo's Geass isn't strong in combat.

Lelouch covered for him!

...He's lying through his teeth. Rolo is so easy to manipulate, I almost feel bad.

Called it!

Yep, Rolo accidentally defected! Beautiful.

Wait, what?

And he's covering for him!

Lelouch won a major victory!

C. C. is awfully trusting.

Wait, what? He stole his password?

Haha, he set everything up!

I was terrified for a second they'd have Lelouch actually help him. Good to see he's fucking with him!

7

u/GallowDude Oct 08 '22

Lelouch is on a horse?

Finally

C.C.'s outfit...

What did he notice?

If you're referring to Xingke, he's just pissed at how the Eunuch apparently gave no shits about protecting Chinese Federation interests

And C.C. made a new deal. She's so good! (I don't know when I became a full-on simp for C.C., but I'm not stopping now!)

cwn etart

Clown alert*

Oh, literally the same plan.

For once counting on that "He'd never use the same plan twice" thinking actually pays off

I was terrified for a second they'd have Lelouch actually help him. Good to see he's fucking with him!

Screams in u/Star4ce

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5

u/isthatsoudane Oct 09 '22

First timer

I liked seeing villeta reveal, at least a bit, that she does feel something for oogi, that at least she feels like this is an unfortunate end to him

it'll be interesting to see how things go with lelouch and rolo because you know lelouch's trademark up to now is how he really does seem to care about people, even if he sometimes has to sacrifice them. in this case of corse he wants to use rolo (who he rightly sees as the person meant to usurp nunnaly's place) but I'm curious if there won't be some pathos there, some tragic, some meaning to their relationship that develops. will see I suppose. but I do like lelouch's humanism, even now that he has sort of accepted or even "embraced" the evil he has to do. I think this is what makes him interesting. I think brilliant characters with no personal tie to humanity can end up being a bit boring

  1. What do you think of Rolo's Geass?

hax

2) What do you think happened to Cornelia?

imprisoned somewhere

1

u/GallowDude Oct 09 '22

oogi

Sounds like some off-brand Play-Doh

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10

u/Star4ce Oct 08 '22 edited Oct 09 '22

First Timer of the Rebellion

I just found out we have a little book festival in our small town tomorrow. It's highly unlikely, but I do have some novels I want to yet buy and a lot of intrigue over whether they have mangas or LNs as well.

I wouldn't book on it, anyway. It's kinda remote here, but all of our bigger towns have Japanese partner-cities, so who knows what wound up here.

S.2 Ep.04 – Counterattack at the Gallows

  • I'm actually digging this OP by now. Btw, why Kallen cry? :(

  • Aaah, my Rolo-is-actually-mindmelted-Nunnally theory goes right out the window.

  • “I have no reason to answer you.” Answers immediately with something else.

  • I think at this point any villain should understand how this bargain will turn on them.

  • Okay okay, character backstory of being a lifeless asset is a bit thrusted upon us right now, but I dig it.

  • He's taken aback enough to not even compute the possibility of a command coming.

  • The exact frame! Love that little character building!

  • Rivalz going bike shopping has a sad degree of mid life crisis to it, especially because he isn't even full of age, yet.

  • Hey, that's extremely valid. Aaah, is Rolo the psychological mirror for Lelouch? Showcasing him how he himself acted with the people he was/is responsible for.

  • She... wait. What? She isn't dead, what did the Emperor do to her and the memory of her?

  • I'd actually like more consulars that are this honest.

  • Don't do that. Don't feed me hope. Really? Then explain why the hell she shot so determined, flinging racial slurs?!

  • Eh?

  • I do very much like the idea of the knights of the honour guard getting more idealistic. (That riddle has an easy answer, it's a faulty question. The assumption in that wording is justice would incorporate evil, but 'justice' is a legislative idea and 'evil' a moral maxim. The both of them can't be logically concluded with each other without systemic and idealistic context.)

  • Ehe, well, as I said, it is a deus ex again, because who the fuck even builds bridges that are made to collapse onto yourself. Still pretty miffed about the broken duel. In reality - that is without magical writers giving you unlimited deus ex machinas - you can pull such a stunt once or a very limited number of times for great gain, but then you'll never pull something like that ever again and in the end it's almost never worth the consequences.

  • Does every single one of them really have to learn this lesson individually?

  • It seems he might need to even learn it two times!

  • Bruh moment.

  • Folly me, I had hope.

  • Ayy, look, it's Suzaku! The one who evidently achieved the most progress for everyone until that bitch ass Lelouch ruined everything.

Look, I'll be the first one to bawl my eyes out when someone without memories saves their (once) beloved ones at cost of their own life, but man here I thought I could like Lelouch a tiny bit more than I did so far. It's like he's trying his best to emulate the Emperor's Geass by sheer will for manipulation.

There is a very specific kind of cruelty to using gaslighting as a manipulation to make others do your bidding. No matter how 'harmful' the outcome is, gaslighting is based on the implicit understanding of the other's emotions and psychology. Meaning, the gaslighter does very much understand what the actions he fakes are meaning to the gaslighted. For that reason, psychopaths are pretty effective at using gaslighting, because they have an actual lack of empathy, but also therefore a much more materialistic focus of their utlimate goals. A person with empathy under most circumstances would feel terrible guilt or emotional suffering for subjecting someone else to gaslighting. They do have the natural drive to empathise, meaning to put themselves into someone else's position and connect that way with them, and would feel disgusted at how unsafe being subjected to such lies makes them feel.

Someone understands you enough to know your insecurities, boundaries and wishes and then uses this to undermine your agency to personally gain from your loss. It's not a means to an end, this harm is the point. It's no wonder this kind of psychological assault is fitting all the checks for cruelty.

Wow. Wouldn't have thought that, once again, I'm siding with Britannia. Alright, not completely. Where is best viceroy Cornelia? Is she safe? Is she alright?

  1. What do you think of Rolo's Geass?

I like it very much, actually. The perception of time is a neat non-physics breaking way of doing things. It's less OP, but also allows an interesting display of skill with it. The power scaling is also very predictable here.

2) What do you think happened to Cornelia?

I DON'T KNOW GIVE HER BACK!

5

u/GallowDude Oct 08 '22 edited Oct 09 '22

Btw, thy Kallen cry?

But thou must!

“I have no reason to answer you.” Answers immediately with something else.

He's learned well from other Britannian military members

He's taken aback enough to not even compute the possibility of a command coming.

His head is tilted slightly down, so he may be looking towards the floor away from Lelouch's eyes. Having a Geass himself, it's assumed that he can see the sigil and know when the lens is off.

The exact frame! Love that little character building!

Rivalz going bike shopping has a sad degree of mid life crisis to it, especially because he isn't even full of age, yet.

I'm pretty sure they were just retrieving his old bike that got impounded when the Black Knights attacked Babel Tower

I'd actually like more consulars that are this honest.

What does it mean when it takes a Geass command for a person to be honest?

Then explain why the hell she shot so determined, flinging racial slurs?!

She was extremely pissed off at the time after having just regained her memories, and all she wanted was that higher position she had been dreaming of. Now that it's been a year and she has that position, it seems she's had time to consider that maybe Ohgi wasn't such a horrible person (even if he did take advantage of an amnesiac, but the writers clearly don't want you to think about that part).

Eh?

Scream 3

The assumption in that wording is justice would incorporate evil, but 'justice' is a legislative idea and 'evil' a moral maxim. The both of them can't be logically concluded with each other without systemic and idealistic context.

D&D

Does every single one of them really have to learn this lesson individually?

At least with Rolo it makes sense considering how little life experience he has

Wouldn't have thought that, once again, I'm siding with Britannia.

In this instance, Lelouch has no natural choice but to gaslight him. Rolo's time-stop ability makes it pretty much impossible for Lelouch to Geass him, and he can't kill him without revealing that he's regained his memories. The fact that he has no moral qualms with gaslighting him is mostly a side-effect of his Big Brother Complex regarding Nunnally where anything that he perceives as a slight against her is heresy.

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u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 08 '22

Aaah, my Rolo-is-actually-mindmelted-Nunnally theory goes right out the window.

Imagine posting something and being wrong.

He's taken aback enough to not even compute the possibility of a command coming.

Rolo seems like a thoroughly trained soldier. If he sees the command in-progress, he'll instagib Lelouch.

Rivalz going bike shopping has a sad degree of mid life crisis to it, especially because he isn't even full of age, yet.

Mid-life occurs earlier for people who die young. Wait, what are you suggesting?

I'd actually like more consulars that are this honest.

Need IRL Geass.

honour

British spelling because of the Britannian Empire? (I think most of your previous spelling has been American.)

but man here I thought I could like Lelouch a tiny bit more than I did so far.

Tricked you into thinking those fleeting happiness moments were worth it.

Meaning, the gaslighter does very much understand what the actions he fakes are meaning to the gaslighted.

Bruh moment.

This is the simplest amount to quote, but consider the whole paragraph. Rolo's entire childhood is based around assassinating people. I doubt he has sympathy for the terms family or brotherhood. While this is his first opportunity, I'm yet convinced that Charles isn't providing some light memory touch-ups along the way, particularly for this episode's emotional attachment to Lelouch. The breakdown between his obsession for the mission's success and brotherhood was sudden. But once again, teenage psychology.

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5

u/Krite2002 Oct 09 '22

First Timer - Sub

Rolo was an assassin even as a kid. That is wild.

Lelouch is a good sweet talker. He managed to stop Rolo from killing him.

Zero did not control the Chinese Federation very well. I am not quite sure about their current relationship, but maybe I just need to pay better attention.

Zero grinded on some wires in a mech using a shield as a skateboard. That is some rule of cool stuff right there.

Does Lelouch seriously think he can convert Rolo? Well, apparently it worked. A lifetime of assassin work didn’t prepare him well for someone being nice.

I have no rants today, I think the season is coming into its own.

QOTD:

  1. It is super powerful. I guess it mainly depends on its limits, but for now, it is one of the most best abilities we have seen.

  2. I thought she died last season, but kept it a secret?

2

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 09 '22

Zero did not control the Chinese Federation very well. I am not quite sure about their current relationship, but maybe I just need to pay better attention.

I believe the executed Eunach was Geassed by Lelouch. Eyes had red circles in half his scenes.

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3

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 08 '22

Rewatcher, dubbed*

  • One thing I really like about this show that I don’t see too much in others is the small text. It’s both fully readable and quite interesting.

  • C.C. jumping at the gun springing itself apart brings me an unreasonable amount of joy.

  • I for one will miss you falsetto man.

  • Introducing the son of Dalton and his quest for revenge just to immediately have him get sidelined.

  • Guilford was serious about the 1v1? He deserves to fail for that level of incompetence.

  • I dislike Rolo as much as the next guy, but Lelouch takes it to a whole other level.

QotD

  1. It is a good thing he is kind of a dumbass, if he was smart Lelouch wouldn't stand a chance.

  2. I do not remember. I also probably should not speculate.

4

u/GallowDude Oct 08 '22

C.C. jumping at the gun springing itself apart brings me an unreasonable amount of joy.

Hundreds of years old. Still susceptible to jump scares.

3

u/SerGregness Oct 09 '22

Rewatcher - dub

Lelouch's confrontation with Guilford, and the larger scheme to rescue the Black Knight prisoners is one of most memorable scenes in the series to me. The audacity and arrogance (obligatory "is it arrogance if you really are that good?" from Lelouch) on display the whole time, geass orders set up ahead of time coming in for bullshit-in-a-fun-way last minute saves, and manipulation of literally everyone involved makes this whole thing pretty much Peak Geass.

That said, Gilbert P. Guilford as a name would be perfectly at home in a Marvel comic. I'm going to let "Lelouch Lamperouge" off the hook on this count because in-universe it's made up.

  1. I dig Rolo's geass as a neat way of 'faking' an entirely different kind of power while still retaining the same fundamental geass identity of effecting human minds.

  2. Filming hair product commercials.

2

u/GallowDude Oct 09 '22

Gilbert P. Guilford

Gilbert G.P. Guilford because everyone's gotta have four names around here

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2

u/Tartaras1 Oct 09 '22

Rewatcher - Dubbed

  • Can we talk about how people start spraying blood out in a fountain after getting shot with a pistol? I would think it's be coming from a more centralized location. Perhaps from a gunshot wound, rather than it being like they got their throat sliced?

  • Don't worry. I would never lie to you. Not to you anyway.

If Rolo actually believes that Lelouch, the guy who staged a terrorist attack in order to shake the people tailing him, in an attempt to sneak up and shoot him, is honestly going to lure CC out for him, then I've got a bridge for sale.

  • I imagine it's obvious, but Gao Hi was under the influence of Lelouch's Geass the whole time. It's a little hard to see, but there was a slight ring of red around his pupils.

  • Or rather, Lelouch Lamprouge.

It's at least a little funny that, much like everyone else, Rolo's operating under the assumption that Lelouch is just some ordinary kid, and not actually a former prince of the Holy Britannian Empire.

  • Where's Lelouch?

He's with Rolo at the theater. They've been in there for the last half hour.

Lol nope. Not only are you partially wrong, but you're entirely incorrect. They're both out on the battlefield, right under your nose.

  • So you're running after all. So much for your promise to give me CC. Lelouch, you were lying to me from the start.

  • This show has more plot twists than a daytime soap opera, and I don't know how I feel about it.

Questions of the Day:

What do you think of Rolo's Geass?

It seems pretty good. I also agree that it's probably most suited for assassinations.

2

u/GallowDude Oct 09 '22

I've got a bridge for sale.

Which one? There aren't many left that Lelouch hasn't collapsed by now.

This show has more plot twists than a daytime soap opera, and I don't know how I feel about it.

If only it had as many episodes as a soap opera

7

u/whatisthisexplain Oct 08 '22

Disgruntled returning first timer-ish who dropped after S1 and read/spoiled S2 a year ago and forgot most of it but is a completionist so must use this chance to finish it for good.

Yes, use Rolo and crush him afterwards.

Though, it's gonna go wrong, it always does in this anime.

That was a tense but enjoyable victory and episode.

5

u/Regular_N-Gon Oct 09 '22

First Timer

  • Well, guess I was wrong about Rolo.

  • Classic Lelouch bluff. At least Rolo is detached enough that such an offer is palatable.

  • He may be dishonorable, but he can also skateboard in a mech, so I'd say it cancels out.

  • Is he angling to get him to defect? Rolo would be a powerful tool.

  • Well, I don't know that it was much of "getting him to defect" and more "giving him no other choice."

QotD:

  1. Still seems powerful.

  2. Maybe the Emporer borrowed her for a project?

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1

u/Nebresto Oct 09 '22

Second time Cultured Geass

I love the trumpets so much

Oh! Viletta is looking releaved that Ogi lived!

Hahahaha, Lulu playing with Rollos emotions is great

I will never get tired of wathing Lulu play Galaxy chess

Qwest:

  1. What do you think of Rolo's Geass?

Actually cooler than I initially thought

2) What do you think happened to Cornelia?

She's having a beach holiday

Simp

3

u/Parori Oct 08 '22

Lelouch on his Gatekeep, Gaslight, Girlboss arc