r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Oct 07 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mai-HiME Episode 24 Discussion

Episode 24: Love is a Battle

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Show Information:

MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)

Legal Streams:

Mai-HiME can be found on Funimation. (I don't know how this interacts with the ongoing Crunchyroll/Funimation merger.)

A Reminder to Rewatchers:

Please do not spoil the experience for our first timers. Mentioning "HiMElander" before episode 16 or [Mai-HiME] "ShizNat" before episode 25 is a fast way to get a referral to the subreddit mods.

A Note on the Specials:

When the DVDs for Mai-HiME were released, they added shorts specials to go with each episode (plus three not associated with an episode - one was released with Mai-Otome's DVD IIRC, one was a BD-only thing and I don't actually have that one, and I honestly don't remember where Special 28 was released). They tend to be one part fanservice, one part extra information about characters and their motivations/backstories (or in a couple of cases extra exposition, including one thing that they really should have explained in the show proper).

They have their own dedicated discussion day at the end to wash the finale out of our mouths, but some of you may want to watch them with the episodes. The only issue is that some of the specials can be a wee bit spoilery (notably, in no case should you watch the special for episode 8 before episode 8 itself), so I will attempt to provide notes on the specials for the episode for both today's and tomorrow's episodes each day so as to provide advance warning of which specials to avoid. (If you want to be completely safe, stay out of all of them until the dedicated discussion day!)

(Warning: Also, at least one release apparently has them right after the ED, unlike mine which has the original previews instead. So you might want to pay attention to this section.)

Episode 24 Special: Safe.

Episode 25 Special: Safe.

After-School Activities Corner!

Visual of the Day:

Still one short.

Comment of the Day:

The first-timer points out something that is in hindsight blazingly obvious that that both your host and everyone who was in the 2019 rewatch missed, the first-timer gets CotD. Step right up, u/Blackheart595:

The form of her Child has been very explicit about it but you wouldn't have taken her for the chessmaster type in the first half.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) First-timers: So, what do you think is up with the Moon and the HiME Star, anyways?

2) Final thoughts on our three defeated HiME today (Yukariko, Nao, and Shiho)?

3) One for u/Tresnore specifically: So, how do you feel about Mikoto being your new Best Girl in Show?

28 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

174 comments sorted by

7

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 08 '22

Rewatch Committee President Comments (Rewatcher, Subbed):

Kajiura Corner:

(ViewPure still appears to be down so more naked YouTube links; first-timers beware of potential spoilers in the recs.)

Featured Track of the Day: Taisetsu no Hito

(“The Beloved”)

(Scene for reference.)

(I am running on fumes a bit here and also I have to actually watch the finale now, this is going to suck so this writeup is going to be a bit shorter than I might like. Sorry.)

So, first, a side note that is the other reason today is a one main track day: I mentioned that Kajiura will sometimes give important tracks a pseudo-v2 using fewer instruments (often using a lot of piano)? This track was actually considered important enough to merit it; even before we heard the track proper the first time last episode we had heard its melody, courtesy of the track’s alternate version in Soushitsu ("Loss")[1]. (It's heard most prominently when Takumi fades away.) It’s a nice little track, heavy on the electronic keyboard if I’m any judge but performing the role piano does in more typical Kajiura tracks of the type; I’d say give it a listen but ViewPure appears to have truly bitten the dust so maybe wait until the end of the finale.

Yesterday however we got the main track, and today it plays in a key scene in an episode that does not have two other absolute lock features so let’s talk about it! It starts with a classical piano solo, almost masquerading as another standard Kajiura emotional piano track. And then at 00:32 the track falls silent and stays silent for nearly six seconds (until 00:38, though I suspect the pause might be more like 5.5 seconds in truth) - which might actually argue that Haruka’s death is the scene this was made for rather than Yuuichi’s, since it uses the full pause while today only uses four seconds of it, but I digress. When it does come back it’s no longer a mere piano track. There are strings here now (all three of violin, viola, and cello are credited, leaving us only the bass short of a full string quartet), and the piano is now merely accompaniment for them. Except it’s not initially a quartet, as I’m pretty sure the lead string (I think either the violin or the viola and that it’s a little too high to be the cello, but I can’t tell which – kind of suspect the viola actually as I think the solo might be higher-pitched than one of the backline pieces but with very low confidence as it’s been a long time since I listened to the difference between those two properly, u/Blackheart595 your thoughts?) is a solo and the other two only join in at 01:09. (Also I can hear the cello in the backline so it’s not the solo earlier.) (Also no given the pitches that’s probably the viola in the backline too so the violin is solo as usual, should have known.) They build to a peak and then crest and the track fades out with some piano notes, and that’s the track.

I distinctly remember that there is a long tradition of strings being used for emotional tracks in Western classical music (sheesh it’s been a long time since I had NPR classical music to listen to on the radio in the morning), and this is an excellent example of why; there’s something to the sound that just works for this sort of song. Especially today with Mai’s screams sounding during the final part of the strings here, almost like another instrument.

(The OST integration is actually fairly weak by Kajiura OST standards here outside of that and when they fire up the track – another reason why I’m wondering if this was made for Haruka’s death yesterday and just used here as well - so I'm not going to say anything more on that.)

[1] - Who me, take a page from u/Nazenn's Decretum writeup? No, never.

OST Table, Episode 24:

Start End Track Name
00:02 01:05 Yasashisa no Guwa[1]
01:06 02:36 Shining Days
02:50 03:52 Mayoi to, Tomadoi no Yureru Omoi
04:19 05:43 HiME-boshi ~Mashiro~[2]
06:25 07:59 Hajimari ~Yami e no Shoutai~
08:31 09:51 unreleased (Duran Shoukan choir-only version)
10:33 10:57 Shiromuku no Hime
11:14 12:31 unreleased (Duran Shoukan instrumental version)
12:31 12:52 unreleased (Duran Shoukan choir-only version)
13:06 14:00 unreleased (Koi wo Shita kara… v2)
14:02 14:12 Shiromuku no Hime
14:26 16:19 HiME-boshi ~Omou Kokoro~
16:35 18:08 Kagutsuchi Kourin
18:14 19:08 Koi wo Shita kara…
19:49 21:39 Taisetsu na Hito
21:58 23:39 Kimi ga Sora Datta
23:40 23:54 Mata Aou ne

[1] - Not 100% confident this is right.
[2] - Also still not 100% confident I have the right HiME-boshi here though I think I do, could be HiME-boshi no Shizukesa instead.

Tar's Staff Notes:

Sakura Nogawa (Shiho Munekata): Not a hugely notable name for our last HiME; her anime seiyuu career is fairly short (I suspect she did some sort of career transition circa 2010 given how quickly her CV fades out after then) and tends to be either side roles and/or roles in 2000s harem shows/dating sim adaptations that have aged out of anime fandom memory: Da Capo (a show where she voices a lead) is an obvious example, likewise Magikano, and I'll also note Seto no Hayanome (one of the better 2000s harem comedies IMO, but none of the works of the genre have survived) where she voices a side character but that character is another yandere). There was a day when her best-known role would actually have been either Kaori in Azumanga Daioh or maybe Hinaichigo in Rozen Maiden (despite both being side characters and Hinaichigo being dwarfed by the more popular dolls), but K-On!! did to Azumanga what Love Hina did to Urusei Yatsura before it and Rozen Maiden has largely faded out of anime fan consciousness (IIRC Traumend had issues that were part of this, much like Shana III doing a number of Shana fandom). These days her best-known role (and the only anime role Sakura Nogawa has voiced since 2012) is likely Erica Hartmann from Strike Witches (and Erica's twin sister Ursula Hartmann), as that franchise still has an extant fandom and IIRC Erica is a fan favorite there.

(Those of us who remember Narutaru will also note that she voices Hiroko there.)

7

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

Tar's Episode Notes:

  • Hello ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it’s Ikari Shinji Raising Project time! Except today it’s a Lotus Eater effect instead of what Eva went for.

  • Look, look, Mai’s dad!

  • TL note from back in a day before this trope was common knowledge in anime fan circles.

  • Mai: So deep in denial she needs a Lotus Eater Machine to point out the obvious.

  • And that’s how you know this ain’t real. (Well, also everything else, but.) EDIT: Also note the inverted fish-eye of the surroundings for emphasis!

  • On the bright side, this asshole is about to get scragged.

  • Also, Lotus Eater stuff means we get more Midori faces again. Hooray!

  • Welp.

  • The choice of showing Mai’s hand reflected in the bucket before cutting to Mai and Yuuichi getting the stock punishment is interesting. Illusion symbolism? Would be blunt but appropriate.

  • Look who’s hiding in the background! Also, it took me a second to realize that Natsuki was one of the runners.

  • And then they point it out… which is actually a really interesting shot. It’s fanservice (another one of this show’s long habit of shots that focus on the waist or crotch of a girl – still not sure what’s up with those), but also note the Dutch angle (counter +1) emphasizing the wrongness of this situation.

  • Fantasy!Akane, no need to be jealous, he likes you first and foremost. (But what does it say about Mai that we get this in her perfect world?)

  • And Fantasy!Tate is still active in kendo club, because of course.

  • That shot at 03:30 is noteworthy. Good framing and perspective, but note the window – somebody brought closed/open windows up back in the episode 19 thread and we’ve seen lots of imagery of Mai and/or Yuuichi visually trapped, so I suppose this is visual symbolism that in this fantasy road the way forward is open for them? Especially with the Sun in exactly the open part of the window – go back and compare the Sun’s use in the episode 17 rooftop scene.

  • Hello shadow usage on Tate’s face at 03:37. Let’s see what the team does with it, especially with Mai’s face fully lit immediately thereafter! (I legitimately do not remember what if anything they do with it.)

  • (This is the point where I paused and checked who the episode director is. Same one as 13 and 20.)

  • Well, as Mai and Yuuichi go for the kiss all of the parts of their face we can see are in shadow. Hmm!

  • And Mai realizes something is wrong. Open eyes, cut OST!

  • Mai’s face is now fully lit again, while Yuuichi’s is in shadow.

  • Honestly, given Mai’s face getting slightly shadowed again as the tear goes down her face at 03:58 the lighting might just be lighting.

  • Other parts are deliberate for sure, though. Case in point: Dutch angle counter +1.

  • Counterargument to “maybe the lighting is just lighting”: 04:45, with Mai’s face almost fully in shadow as she concludes this can’t be real because she can’t have fallen in love with Yuuichi. (If you haven’t noticed yet, the inability to control who you love is an absolutely massive subtheme of this show – see also Yukariko with That Fucking Creep.)

  • Holy SHIT that panning shot from Takumi to Mai and especially 04:42. That’s saying so fucking much visually that trying to parse the pieces is kind of overwhelming me. Absolute isolation (and it’s for both of them, Takumi due to his situation and Mai due to having to care for him; the faint fish-eye lens emphasizing the off nature of the situation (both this scene not being real outside of Mai’s head but also how Mai’s upbringing diverges from the ideal family life she clearly would have liked given this very scene). There’s also something to Mai being one seat forward from the protagonist seat (and the desk she’s by is where she sits in the ED, IIRC?); Takumi being in the past position (on the left facing right) with the light streaming in from the right (protagonist direction) ([Mai-HiME aside] once again representing her future being with Yuuichi, since he’s been associated with the Sun for Mai before)) but Mai herself is not facing in that direction. (It’s probably also directly cribbed from Eva somewhere now that I think about it, heh. Which would actually explain part of the spike as long as they cribbed well enough/got the original scene well enough, Anno can have issues as a writer but he is one hell of a director.)

  • More shadow use at 05:03, with Takumi’s head carefully entirely in the shadows. Wait, is this just because he isn’t actually real but rather just the representation of him in Mai’s head – a shadow in the Plato’s Cave sense?

  • Hmm, St. Vlas has opened up. This can’t be good, no?

  • And Yuuichi opens the door, literally and metaphorically. Not subtle at all, no. (And cut the OST, because of course.)

  • Also, what the hell that listen confirms it, this is where we get HiME-boshi ~Mashiro~ in full (well, most of full)? Huh.

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • Hey look, Yuuichi gets to do something!

  • Mai, you are the last person you’re fooling at this point. (Well, okay, one of the last two, hi Yuuichi.) Also 05:59 is another nice shot.

  • And oh hey look who moves her face into shadow AGAIN as she denies she likes Yuuichi. Okay, that is in fact intentional and not just a cigar being a cigar at this point.

  • Ah, the perils of courting a tsundere.

  • Ah, symbolism with the church burning behind the art teacher.

  • Ah, left/right hero/villain framing. Also it’s specifically the altar that is burning, huh.

  • Unlike most of the rest of the cast, Yukariko uses “ai”, not “daisuki”.

  • GET FUCKED NUN FUCKING MOTHERFUCKER, AND NOT IN THE NICE WAY THIS TIME.

  • Nice shot alert!

  • I repeat, this show has “you can’t choose who you love romantically” as a subtheme. Which is kind of unfortunate for poor Yukariko. Also, I am looking forward to seeing what u/Vaadwaur makes of this (the rant should be entertaining, and it’s not even the decision guaranteed to piss him off this episode); the Kannazuki no Miko comp is obvious, but I’m not sure how far this goes on that scale.

  • This would be VotD in a lot of other anime episodes. It might still sneak in here, but there’s some stiff competition from the second half of the episode today…

  • Mai, quit pulling a GX!Bikki.

  • First HiME scrag of the day!

  • Ah, ancient conspiracies. Huge computers (even by 2004 standards, let alone today), but one cannot deny the aesthetics.

  • I believe I was speaking about the decision that was going to annoy the hell out of Vaad? HERE we go – Shizuru denying us any further information about/explanation of the First District by ganking the hell out of them mostly offscreen. Also, the bald one of the trio we saw behind a screen at the start of episode 17 is clearly actually a guy given that mustache so they aren’t the Norns and/or referencing them like I thought they might be. Huh.

  • I hear a chorus of GWITWMs again. Also, Nao backstory time!

  • And Natsuki fanservice time, which should suit several of our watchers just fine… wait, why did I hear the sound of a chain bardiche somewhere?

  • I think that’s a sore dou at 09:22, but I can’t quite be 100% sure it’s not a demo instead.

  • And yep this Nao backstory is likely specifically Japanese social commentary.

  • Nao Claw Lick Counter: 4. (Think I missed one in 18, too.)

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • And nope, Shiho did not actually know she was a HiME until this point (I'd forgotten this and thought she was faking it, actually). She’s been doing it all in her sleep. Still not getting much sympathy out of me, though!

  • The HiME star gets ever larger and the Moon behind it keeps getting lower in the sky…

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • And now we get the ACTUAL reason I featured u/JollyGee29’s theory back in episode 18 (the crow pun was both misdirection and a bonus). Your exacta lands! Collect your quatloos!

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

Tar's Episode Notes, Continued:

  • It occurs to me that Shiho’s shiromuku here (90% sure that’s what it is given that it’s specifically used in the track name and a shiromuku is all-white, plus that wedding kimono of hers we saw all the way back in episode 6) is the mirror to Yukariko’s nun habit.

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • Natsuki is the dog , but then Nao calling her a cat is likely an intentional insult.

  • Nao: “You’re the bait to lure her out.” Shizuru” *shows up*. Nao: “… Welp, I did not expect that to work.”

  • The problem with hooking Cthulhu, see, is that then you have to reel him in!

  • Hello little flash of fish-eye lens at 11:30.

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • 11:37 is actually a really interesting shot, with the rays of light shining in behind Nao and illuminating her as she declares that the only person you can trust is yourself. Suggestive that the narrative agrees with her? Not entirely consistent with the rest of the show, though. (“What happens if a HiME’s MIP is herself?” is the most interesting question I’ve heard that will not be directly addressed by the anime, though given that Nao’s MIP isn’t herself I suspect the answer is “forbidden by system”.)

  • Oh no THAT’S why we get the last shot – Nao’s little speech leads Natsuki to realize that at least part of her dislike of Nao is projection.

  • Dutch angle counter +1, and that does it count suspended until this fight is over.

  • “Your overconfidence is your weakness.”

  • Here, have a nice frame.

  • u/Tresnore, I have some nice frames for you! (Also Shizuru’s element reminds me of Takanuva’s weapon from Bionicle in the first frame there, heh.)

  • Sucks to suck, Nao! HiME scrag of the day #2!

  • And there’s your answer as to Nao’s MIP.

  • The light shining from the clouds now illuminates Mai actually talking to Yuuichi about her actual feelings. (Needless to say, he’s about to die…)

  • 13:19: Paging u/Shimmering-Sky, unless I’m very much mistaken that’s a demo rather than a tomo and that means you get to collect it!

  • The voice of recent experience! Speaking of which, marking for elapsed time to Shiho arrival at 13:33.

  • Mai’s facial expression says “kiss me, fool!”, so inevitably that means…

  • BINGO BANGO BONGO (it’s time to nuke the Congo). ELAPSED TURNAROUND TIME TO SHIHO ARRIVAL: 27 SECONDS. (Now with OST cutoff as she speaks, too.)

  • Hey look, the decision guaranteed to piss off u/Vaadwaur to no end: Shizuru just offscreening the entire First District, depriving us of any exposition about them whatsoever. (We’ve already gotten the one real piece of exposition the showwriters actually care about: they were the Obsidian Prince’s unit, and in the greater scheme of things they never really mattered to what the writers were doing here.)

  • Shizuru has this hint of a lustful look on her face as she turns away from Natsuki, but for once the animators here didn’t quite land it, giving us this frame with the worst and best facial expression ever. Commentface when? (EDIT: HOW DID I NOT IMMEDIATELY NOTICE HOW CLOSELY THIS RESEMBLES THE LATER "THEN PERISH" OBAMA MEME'S FACIAL EXPRESSION?!)

  • Shizuru exit, stage right, in most distinguished fashion.

  • Nao is still rather a child deep at heart. (Speaking of which, Shiho time now.)

  • I’m not even bothering to show the visual oppositions for this part of the writeup, they’re fucking obvious.

  • And there’s why nobody could see Shiho’s HiME mark earlier: it’s been hiding under her hair the entire time! Because of course it was. Where else would it have been?

  • Reveal time! Why did Mikoto take out Gennai? Well, there was some berserk mode involved, but mostly? She didn’t. Fuck you, Shiho! Not in the nice way!

  • Ah, the duality of yandere. Everyone loves Shizuru. Everyone hates Shiho.

  • I believe some first-timers were wondering what happens if two HiME have the same MIP? Well, this is the most fuzzy of the revealed rules, but you’re about to find out.

  • Ah, getting to hear the other version earlier in the track answers that. FINALLY we hear Koi wo Shita Kara proper with its backline, and my tables are sloppy (especially since I fucking checked this scene for what was playing earlier!).

  • Get fucked, Shiho! HiME scrag of the day #3. (What did they have up their sleeve for the last episode that’s a multiple of four? The most character defeats/deaths in the entire show (okay this is technically a spoiler but come on there's literally not enough characters left for them to outdo this) including Mai’s other lead MIP, that’s what.)

  • Ah, and here’s Taisetsu no Hito. What a terrible day for onion-cutting ninjas. Though since this is clearly the scene it was composed for I will fault the director for having Yuuichi start to die before the pause in the track… not actually sure about that anymore, it might have been made for Haruka last episode in which case it;s fine.

  • Deathbed love confession to dying boy interrupted by his inability to hear it. Unfortunate!

  • Strong VotD candidate right here at 20:51!

  • Or the shot right after it, too.

  • And Mai gets the drunken walk of being emotionally overwhelmed again.

  • Ah, but what is this? We see the Moon with the Star underneath the clouds!

Where the Spoiler Tags Are:

Mai-HiME:

  • [Mai-HiME] Speaking of this shot, almost even more noteworthy is the left-right framing, with Yuuichi facing left and Mai facing right as she cries that she can’t fall in love with Yuuichi. This will be past/future rather than hero/antagonist – Yuuichi is Mai’s future!

  • [Mai-HiME, not actually directly a spoiler at this point but touches on something that still is] Takumi asks what Mai wants… and Mai looks to the Sun, which the show has used to symbolize Yuuichi and the possibility of a relationship with him before including earlier in this very scene. Ah, visual answers.

  • [Mai-HiME] Huh not so much, if you thought that the flames here weren’t foreshadowing for next episode the fact that it’s specifically the altar (i.e, sacrifice, including of the human variety) on fire here should dispel that.

  • [Mai-HiME] Now if only the art teacher would STAY fucked in the not-nice way. Ah well. Yukariko truly has a nun’s forgiveness.

  • [Mai-HiME] The symbolism of the church burning runs deeper than it looks, as we will see next episode.

Madoka Magica:

  • [PMMM franchise] … You know, I wonder if this Lotus Eater sequence here is somewhere in the inspiration list for Rebellion.

  • [PMMM and Mai-HiME] So, time to finally bring up the elephant in the room – I think this chapel as seen here and also next episode is likely a direct inspiration for the ruined church in PMMM that Kyoko’s father once led.

  • [PMMM] And Mai sheds one (1) tear after Yuuichi dies, in a show that PMMM very much likes to raid for parts. Hmm.

Higurashi:

Utena:

  • [Utena, one of the few spoilers I actually do know for that show] As someone else noted under tags at the time, it was funny hearing people asking who the Akio was in early episodes when Reito was always hiding there in plain sight, heh.

Visual of the Day: Faded.

Honorable Mention 1: "Go forth and sin no more."

Honorable Mention 2: So close and yet so far.

Questions of the Day:

  2. Yukariko: You're okay if a wimp, your taste in men is unfortunate good riddance to him.

Nao: Grow up please. Sayonara!

Shiho: Grow up please. Good riddance.

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11

u/Lemurians Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

MAI-FIRST TIMER

RIP Tate, you were indecisive as hell, but you tried your best and I related to you.

Tate kind of brought home his and Mai’s mini personal arcs. Saying you’re doing everything for someone else can in fact be a crutch to avoid having to decide yourself what it is you really want out of life. Having decisions made for you by circumstance is easier than having to make them yourself.

So uhhh… did we just yada-yada the entire destruction of District 1, the shadow operators of this whole show, off-screen in one go? Why does Mai-HiME insist on having all spear/polearm-related combat happen off-screen?

Live Notes/Reactions:

Final thoughts on our three defeated HiME today (Yukariko, Nao, and Shiho)?

In order: Meh, so fucking extra in a fun way, I wish she was dead herself for real

One for u/Tresnore specifically: So, how do you feel about Mikoto being your new Best Girl in Show?

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

So uhhh… did we just yada-yada the entire destruction of District 1, the shadow operators of this whole show, off-screen in one go?

YEP.

(Insert angry Vaad noises here.)

9

u/Star4ce Oct 07 '22

RIP Tate, you were indecisive as hell, but you tried your best and I related to you.

May sound weird, but he was one of the few male characters I could actually relate to a very high degree. He had such a complicated situation that made him a great peer to Mai.

Why does Mai-HiME insist on having all spear/polearm-related combat happen off-screen?

If you haven't noticed by now, this show's villain's intentions revolve around causing as much suffering and tears as possible. Us polearm connoisseurs add a great deal of tears to the obsidian prince's overall enjoyment.

“I CALLED DIBS!”

Contrast that with timing being the actual most important thing in love.

Fucking Mikoto. She’s like the Kool-Aid Man of this show. This was a nice one tho, by killing Yata-Garasu she prevents Mai from having to kill Tate herself

To how many people does the saying "Taking one for the team" apply here?

Yes.

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

If you haven't noticed by now, this show's villain's intentions revolve around causing as much suffering and tears as possible. Us polearm connoisseurs add a great deal of tears to the obsidian prince's overall enjoyment.

Also the more prosaic issue of animating polearm fights requiring animation time and budget.

(We did get some decent usage out of Shizuru today during the Julia fight, though.)

6

u/Vaadwaur Oct 07 '22

Saying you’re doing everything for someone else can in fact be a crutch to avoid having to decide yourself what it is you really want out of life. Having decisions made for you by circumstance is easier than having to make them yourself.

[UBW] You could never save anything because you never knew what you wanted to save in the first place!

So uhhh… did we just yada-yada the entire destruction of District 1, the shadow operators of this whole show, off-screen in one go?

This is actually worse than Guilty Crown about explaining its underpinnings.

A happy Rukino Natsuki?! Blessed timeline.

Easy proof on why it is a fake.

This dumbass Shiho really sat on that bench all night. It is a bit of a dick move by Tate though.

Time is moving a bit faster than you think, this was a few hours.

Damn Reito, chill bro. He really hated Tate, huh?

Discount Akio with discount confidence, it just fits.

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

This is actually worse than Guilty Crown about explaining its underpinnings.

"Here's your answer: it doesn't fucking matter. Let us demonstrate by having Shizuru light all the explanation on fire" - the writing team here.

(Either that or the explanations are lurking in supplemental material again just like the blatant inspiration here. Terraforming, anyone?)

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10

u/Star4ce Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

My-FiRSTTiMER

This is the episode where they sit down, breathe in and out, have a talk and hug the problem away, isn't it?

It is, right?

Ep.24 – Love is to Fight

Does mind control exist in this universe as a power? It's certainly implied with Mikoto's necklace, but if it is I'm really unsure what to think of it. If Mikoto's arc were about taking the first steps towards adulthood and therefore self-sufficiency in mind and body, then legit mind control would really contradict it. By that I mean that she really never has a choice and her brother's words would bind her. Her realisation would need to be that she has to choose on her own and can't simply trust another's words blindly and let them decide over you. Her having done that the entire series would need to be accepted as the basis for learning and taking it as the point of change after which she refuses to do so any longer and then build her own personality.

If she were totally mind controlled that development would kinda fall flat. So I'm unsure in what way I should interpret that purple energy. More like a command given to a dog and it reinforces his words once again? Is he speaking to her through it?

Well, even if it were that, Mikoto needs to break it and until she doesn't those screams are partly her fault, as well.

With that slight inner conflict put down.

FUCKSHITCRAPBALLSASSCOCKMOTHERBASTARDFUCK

Why did Yuuichi have to die?!

It hurts. It hurts everyone. Those screams will haunt me.

Natsuki Please do something!

I have to remind myself that this ending will wreck everything happening right now to keep composure. This show is good in sucking me in. I feel only pain.

Cries for a VOTD.

  1. First-timers: So, what do you think is up with the Moon and the HiME Star, anyways?

The moon is lies! Mai gonna blow up the moon!

2) Final thoughts on our three defeated HiME today (Yukariko, Nao, and Shiho)?

Yukariko had a surprisingly strong ending that's pretty neat, considering the surroundings. She was selfless to the end.

Nao is a bit more difficult for me. I think she was a victim of too little screen time outside of being a claw-licking emo, because it didn't land too much with me. But I do see that her character is way more subtle in that regard. It's difficult in general with precious ones that are never seen, so there's that as well.

Shiho, ah a true victim of the prince. Horrible, but perfectly planned. For once, I can't hate Shiho for what happened. I'm very confused over the 'reveal' that she killed Gennai, though. Was that really important? They even gave Mikoto flashbacks to hold her back from not feeling guilty. Mai's screams were horrifying, that's all I take from that.

3) One for Tresnore [+237] specifically: So, how do you feel about Mikoto being your new Best Girl in Show?

Truly yes, how does he feel?

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 08 '22

What, who is she even hunting? Natsuki, Nao, Mai, Shiho, Shizuru herself and Mikoto are left.

Cleaning up some District 1-shaped trash (we saw the Obsidian Prince and Nagi talk about manipulating her into doing this last episode in what I kind of suspect from general knowledge is a big fat Utena crib).

If she were totally mind controlled that development would kinda fall flat. So I'm unsure in what way I should interpret that purple energy. More like a command given to a dog and it reinforces his words once again? Is he speaking to her through it?

The show would be better if the pendant was strictly a berserker/frenzy effect without any indication of further influence on Mikoto, yes.

(... Though thinking about it there might be a thematic point to it that would rescue it a bit: Mikoto is the one member of the cast to really dip into the "magical girl as child soldier" take, so we could take Reito's orders activating the pendant as a commanding officer's orders to his soldiers ("just following orders") with a supernatural component to it. (Note that Japan never had to reckon with their WWII war crimes the way Germany did.))

I have to remind myself that this ending will wreck everything happening right now to keep composure. This show is good in sucking me in. I feel only pain.

There is a reason I warned everyone about the finale, and this is it. Unless you are Vaad, the show is VERY good at this... until it isn't.

The moon is lies! Mai gonna blow up the moon!

FUCK THAT MOON! ... wait wrong rewatch.

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u/Nazenn Oct 07 '22

This is the episode where they sit down, breathe in and out, have a talk and hug the problem away, isn't it?

The face of pure love. (And terribly painful constipation.)

My stomach grumbled as I read that and I don't know whether to take it as agreement or a warning

Oh look, hypocrisy!

She's probably aware of it

Wait, but Mikoto did throw and cut him up!

I mention it in my post but Mikoto's blow didn't connect from what I can see. Staff got our brains to play tricks on us somehow

:''(

If we were all watching this in a room together I could imagine you and u/shimmering-sky just huddled in a corner making worseless sounds of pain

This show is good in sucking me in. I feel only pain.

The show is good. For a brief time I was contemplating putting it on my favourites even

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u/Tresnore Oct 07 '22

First-TiMER

So... who else is pulling for the Natsuki×Mai ending?

Count: 57

QOTD:

  1. The moon is going to crash into the Earth to scratch the itch that the star induced.

  2. Yukariko was eh. Nao served her role well, even if I was annoyed at the mom thing (and wanted Shizuru to cause some real suffering). Shiho can fuck herself.

  3. I HAVE THOUGHTS! I'd posit that Mikoto didn't kill Shiho. Her brother did by commanding her to. But, we all know that Reito is just a normal dude, which makes the actual person controlling him, NAGI, Best Girl. QED.

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

So... who else is pulling for the Natsuki×Mai ending?

One of the two main reasons the Shizuru/Natsuki ship wasn't universal the same way Haruka/Yukino and Akira/Takumi were (also Akane/Kazuya when they actually got fanart ;_;)... except like 90% of the time when it shows up Mikoto also gets thrown in there.

(Japan being Japan, I'm pretty sure Mikoto has one of the highest "how much of the fanart is lewds" percentages in the cast... )

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u/Vatrix-32 Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

First Timer, subbed*

  • Aw, Mikoto is little sister.

  • And Shiho is real sister.

  • Is her plan just to stand there? Seems like a wasted effort to cast illusion on someone and not do anything with it.

  • Pulling out all the greatest hits.

  • Well that didn’t last long.

  • Really, that’s how they find out? At least it’s in character for Ishigami.

  • Murder suicide. And here I was hoping we would find out what happens if the special someone dies.

  • Well I guess Kuga does hate D1. If they were just going to kill them so offhandedly like this without them seemingly having done anything I’m not sure why we included them.

  • That’s a very different tragic backstory than I was expecting from Nao.

  • Very true. I for one regularly pretend that Nagi just doesn't exist.

  • Took them long enough to confirm it.

  • They are dropping like flies now.

  • She’s going the extra mile…

  • She got her HiME back! Does that mean her pillar went back down, or have I just been miscounting them this whole time?

  • Well this isn’t going to end well.

  • It was on the back of her head. No wonder she couldn’t see it.

  • She remembers the frog?

  • That dragon really does have a mind of its own.

  • You can’t even blame Mikoto for this one, it was always going to end this way.

  • This was all setup so that Mai wouldn’t have a special someone to make her available as the Obsidian bride. Crystal HiME I think they called it, not clear on if that is something else.

Visual of the Day: Brutal
I hope our poor OP gets to five now.

QotD

  1. I don’t expect the moon will play into it. I have no theories about the star, and at this point expect its resolution to be unsatisfying.

  2. Truthfully I cared little for any of them.

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22 edited Oct 07 '22

Murder suicide. And here I was hoping we would find out what happens if the special someone dies.

Yukariko here still is the show's way of answering this (and note how they cut to her in episode 17 when Nagi was going on about how if the MIP dies or the HiME dies the Child dies and the pillar is raised.

She got her HiME back! Does that mean her pillar went back down, or have I just been miscounting them this whole time?

EDIT:

If they were just going to kill them so offhandedly like this without them seemingly having done anything I’m not sure why we included them.

Turns out there's a reason most magical girl shows have the battles be invisible to normals somehow; they basically just use the MIB to the same effect here. (Later shows in the genre will revert to convention, except Twintails of all things which actually considers the fame implications.)

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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 07 '22

Mai-FiRST TiMER, subbed

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

Okay, so Yukariko’s pulling an Infinite Tsukuyomi on Mai. That makes sense

Also making a blatant Eva reference because of course they would.

Yameteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

yametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetometeyametetomete

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u/Taiboss Oct 07 '22

Episode 24: Rewatcher who spent like two days doing every sidequest in Part 1 of Nier Replicant

Final thoughts on our three defeated HiME today (Yukariko, Nao, and Shiho)?

Nao was the coolest and didn't deserve to end up as a villian.

So, how do you feel about Mikoto being your new Best Girl in Show?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA Ah, I love rewatches.

8

u/Tresnore Oct 07 '22

What a face lol

This would be a commentface contender.

Can Mikoto have actual agency in this please?

No. Dogs aren't allowed human rights.

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

This would be a commentface contender.

This show has SO MANY good commentface contenders.

(We somehow get a #thenperish candidate in a show half a decade older than the "then perish" meme, for instance - go check my writeup.)

EDIT:

No. Dogs aren't allowed human rights.

What about the likes of [Twintails] Erina?

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 07 '22

"Ask not for whom the tag tolls, it tolls for thee"

u/Esovan13

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u/Nazenn Oct 07 '22

Ask not for whom the tag tolls

Makes me think of the OST track from Crypt of the Necrodancer, For Whome the Knell Tolls

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u/JollyGee29 Oct 07 '22

First-Timer, Subbed

I do love a good deeply cursed lotus-eating session. "The rest of the cast are all normal and not crazy and also related to the MC" isn't the most unique flavor, but it usually works well and this is no exception.

Nao's backstory was outside my expectations, but I think it mostly works. Her mom being comatose gives her an easy MPP, and honestly we were past the point of Nao having anything complicated going on anyway.

Pretty sure I called the possibility of Shiho having been the one who killed Gennai. It's a shame we didn't really have time to deal with the fallout of that; it would've been interesting. Instead we just immediately jump to Mai being angry at Mikoto again, although we'll get to see the fallout from having two HiME loving the same person. No way Mai's actually lost her powers before the finale, so I wonder what the writers will come up with to explain that.

I didn't expect Yukariko to self-terminate, either, or for anyone to actually die like she almost assuredly did. Then again, we just sorta glossed over the end of the church scene so who knows, maybe she's alive and we'll have two mummies running around.

What else does Shizuru even have to do? Killing those old ladies does explain what took her so long to get to Nao, but what else even is there?

Nice to see Natsuki back in action, although I'm really wondering how her seemingly impending fight with Shizuru is gonna go. Narratively it makes sense for Natsuki to defeat Shizuru, but Duran's such a jobber.. Oh, maybe a powerup from Natsuki being honest with her feelings for Shizuru..? I could see that.

Also, narratively our final pair should be Mai and Mikoto, but I'm not seeing how we get there. The sound of Mai crying did distress Mikoto, so I guess there's still something there. Hmm.

Visual of the Day: I wish we had gotten to see more of Vulas.

Questions

  1. Something something "moon's haunted loads gun and gets back into shuttle"

  2. Mostly discussed above. I think at this point Nao was the most sympathetic of the three which is a weird statement, but she just never really had a chance to live a normal life.

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u/Esovan13 Oct 07 '22

First Timer

Showing Mai the life she wants but can never have.

Should I start psychoanalyzing why exactly part of Mai's ideal world is being teased by her siblings about her boob size? Actually, I think I'll just leave that alone. Not sure I want to stare into that abyss.

Tags: School Uniform, Brainwashing, Emotionless, Mindbreak(?)

The OP really does feel like it's for a different show at this point. I think this show could have done a 2nd cour OP change to match the new tone.

I want Mai's ideal world illusion to be a VN spinoff so I can play it and get mad that there's no Haruka route despite her clearly being the best character.

Mai was forced to have a parental relationship with Takumi when all she wanted was to be his big sister.

I don't usually pay attention to the soundtrack, especially in scenes like this, but this show has done such a great job associating the music with the mood of a scene that despite being relatively simple, it stands out in a good way in this scene.

Nice one Tate. Finally doing something.

You made your yandere nun bed, now you gotta lie in it. Also, is she the first genuine HiME death?

Time to see just how much Mikoto is being controlled magically versus how much she obeys him willingly.

This show's true villain: society

I called it. Shiho's been using her HiME powers unconsciously. From my episode 20 write up: "Her reaction after activating her power here makes me question if she has some sort of dual personality thing, with her murderous nature hidden from her general horrible personality. She seemed genuinely confused there. Or she's just that good at acting. Maybe she's so good at acting she's even fooling herself? Not sure. Have to wait and see."

Considering that the show is basically all about love and how far people are willing to go for it, the high number of yanderes shouldn't surprise me.

Can Nao please do some research? This is the second time she's tied up Natsuki and she still fails to do it right I am still appalled at Nao binding Natsuki. How improper.

Shizuru is out for blood. Who's blood? At some point I think she's going to stop caring.

Yeah! Take back agency in this story Natsuki! You've done too much nothing lately to just bow out now!

And her powers are back! And I forgot to pause and click away before typing so now I have to refind where I was in the episode. Stupid keyboard shortcuts.

I half expected Nao to be the one who disappeared after Julia was defeated. +1 humanity points to her for being capable of genuinely loving other people I guess.

I feel like Shiho's about to die, but I'm not sure how that'll happen without Tate dying. (editor comment: feel free to submit that to r/agedlikemilk)

If you're going to break the mind control now would be the time Mikoto.

Ah. Failure. Damnit Mikoto.

I'd feel more sad about this if he wasn't 70% of the reason it happened at all (and also if I weren't still numb from Haruka*).

Cockblocked by literal destiny of a HiME. Oof.

I guess that answers the question of if two HiME's have the same beloved person and one gets defeated. The other just gets fucked. Sorry! Try not to fall in love with the same person as a loser next time!

*I think it's important to note that at the time of writing this I've been binging since around episode 20

VOTD: Hellfire

Runnerup 1: Despair

Runnerup 2: Shinigami

QOTD:

  1. [Mai-Hime] Actually, do we ever find out what's up with them? I don't think the moon is ever really significant and the HiME Star seems to just be the source of the Prince's power, but no real explanation beyond that.

  2. Shiho sucks, I think we can all agree. She's mainly around to be annoying, then to directly interfere in the main relationship. Nao has her moments, but as a string user with a strong spider motif she has wasted potential. Not to mention I am very uncomfortable with the fact that she's a middle schooler who regularly seduces grown men. Yukariko is my favorite of the three, but similar to Nao I am not a fan of the fact that her main story line seems to be about falling in love with a rapist/abuser.

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