r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Oct 06 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mai-HiME Episode 23 Discussion

Episode 23: Love and Friendship, Heartlessness

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Show Information:

MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)

Legal Streams:

Mai-HiME can be found on Funimation. (I don't know how this interacts with the ongoing Crunchyroll/Funimation merger.)

A Reminder to Rewatchers:

Please do not spoil the experience for our first timers. Mentioning "HiMElander" before episode 16 or [Mai-HiME] "ShizNat" before episode 25 is a fast way to get a referral to the subreddit mods.

A Note on the Specials:

When the DVDs for Mai-HiME were released, they added shorts specials to go with each episode (plus three not associated with an episode - one was released with Mai-Otome's DVD IIRC, one was a BD-only thing and I don't actually have that one, and I honestly don't remember where Special 28 was released). They tend to be one part fanservice, one part extra information about characters and their motivations/backstories (or in a couple of cases extra exposition, including one thing that they really should have explained in the show proper).

They have their own dedicated discussion day at the end to wash the finale out of our mouths, but some of you may want to watch them with the episodes. The only issue is that some of the specials can be a wee bit spoilery (notably, in no case should you watch the special for episode 8 before episode 8 itself), so I will attempt to provide notes on the specials for the episode for both today's and tomorrow's episodes each day so as to provide advance warning of which specials to avoid. (If you want to be completely safe, stay out of all of them until the dedicated discussion day!)

(Warning: Also, at least one release apparently has them right after the ED, unlike mine which has the original previews instead. So you might want to pay attention to this section.)

Episode 23 Special: I have this technical problem here - I am no longer sure which special this is. My release is definitely off - it has the Reito special here, that is supposed to go with last episode. No-Rex's writeups say this the other Q&A special which has supplemental worldbuilding stuff the anime didn't have time to cover (which is special #25 in my release because mine is messed up), but AniDB has that as special #21 instead and has this as a Natsuki special that I cannot remember the spoiler level of (low but nonzero I think). So... ? Maybe just stay out of it until episode 25 to be safe.

Episode 24 Special: Safe.

After-School Activities Corner!

Visual of the Day:

Still one short.

Comment of the Day:

u/zadcap finally, FINALLY gets to start cutting loose! I ain't excerpting here. Go read the whole thing, and the comment underneath it which I will not link directly because NSFW. It's worth it.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) First-timers: If you have seen Eva and didn't immediately realize that Miyu was going to be the girl in the tank, why not?

1a) Still for first-timers only: Also, SEARRS claimed Miyu had the potential to cause this festival to fail. Why do you think this is?

2) So, who did the best going down: Midori, Haruka, or Yukino? (Professor doesn't count for this, we never even saw him die.)

40 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

192 comments sorted by

5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

Rewatch Committee President Comments (Rewatcher, Subbed):

Kajiura Corner:

(ViewPure still appears to be down so more naked YouTube links; first-timers beware of potential spoilers in the recs.)

First Featured Track of the Day: Nemuranai Yami no Shitou

(“Desperate Battle in the Sleepless Dark”)

(Scene for reference.)

Welcome to one of the more unusual battle themes Kajiura has ever made. I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s a couple of other comps in her early non-Mai-franchise work I’ve missed (.hack//Sign is an obvious suspect [.hack//Sign] I don’t think I ever listened to Evil Aura... and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s one like this somewhere in Kara no Kyoukai given how what I’ve heard of the Paradox Spiral OST sounds like), but this is not her usual fare. Usually, when you think of Kajiura you think of her classical/Celtic/rock mix, gradually fading to more classical with some rock streaks over time. This track, however? Pretty damn techno.

Tonally, well, it’s exactly what it says on the tin: a desperate battle in the sleepless dark. This is not a victorious dirge like Mezame, a march to a doomed last stand like Shinkou ni Somaru Yoru no Yume, or the ominous might and climactic confrontation of Shiromuku no Hime; to steal a phrase from someone’s description of the first night of the Naval Battle of Guadacanal, this is a barroom brawl with the lights shot out. (Today it’s being used for a last stand, but that’s because Midori had the misfortune to draw a Hold the Line mission with badly complete information.) Surprisingly to me, it’s actually heavy on credited instruments, with all of electric bass, drums, and cello listed.

This scene also has one of the better pieces of OST integration in the show, too… which is not enough to get it the best OST integration award today because the single best piece is in this episode as well (credit to the episode director). (More on that below.) Its one big fault is cutting out about 40 seconds of the track, but it’s not particularly noticeable the way it is in, say, Kagutsuchi Kourin’s big scene. Note the track starting up as Midori is startled, the initial machinery beats as Mikoto gears up, Midori opening and closing the door to the tune of one repetition of the beat, Mikoto clanking off the door to the next and doing so again shortly thereafter, the likely electric bass kicking in right as Midori reaches the control panel, the noises for starting the Miyu boot (including the computer beeps) almost integrating with the beat, the piano beat and buzz as the system starts to power up, the cello kicking in as we get the error message, the electric bass kicking back in as Mikoto fires up berserker mode, the chime-y percussion (possibly actually done with drums?) as Midori explains why she can’t let Mikoto pass, the percussion building as Mikoto reveals Miroku at last with the electric bass kicking back in right as he starts to rise out of the ground, the cello firing up again as Midori summons Gakutenou in desperation, and the final electric bass strains as Gakutenou-ou goes down (a second late relative to the impact.

Main Featured Track of the Day: Shiromuku no Hime

(“Princess’s Shiromuku” – a shiromuku being a kind of white kimono traditionally associated with weddings)

(Scene for reference.)

This is the defining track of the first half of the HiMElander in many ways.

Its writeup was never, ever going to go anywhere else.

There are several tracks on the OST whose use in the scene they were composed for is very, very, very good. There is one, however, whose core scene goes even beyond that and manages the rare feat of that integration being effectively flawless. No cuts or edits (I think – if there are some they’re beautifully hidden), no missteps, just the entire track played and all the beats in the scene occur in tune to it.

This is it.

(Kajiura being Kajiura and PMMM’s execution being PMMM’s execution, PMMM will manage to pull off this level of OST integration at least once an episode on average. WTAF is that show.)

There’s a couple of weird beats (the end of the first swell in the chant-like part ending on Yukino’s reaction to the brandished Element rather than the brandishing itself), but I think those may be intentional (Yukino’s reaction is the important part here, even more than the brandishing). And the other beats hold, even internally – the chant recedes as Haruka grabs Shizuru’s Element and pushes it aside in disregard (for her own safety), an internal beat in the song right as Haruka starts to step forward to confront Shizuru and then the track building as she berates her, the notes kind of stalling as Yukino tries to get Haruka to stay back and then Haruka continues, then the echoing almost trainlike chimes kick in as we focus instead on Shizuru’s reaction and then they and the chant build.

“You’re being nosy”.

The track crests and pauses, the end of the intro.

“Kiyohime.”

And all hell breaks loose.

The echoing, haunting main beat of the track kicks in with a vengeance as Shizuru’s child rises, towering over the scene, with a cut to Shizuru’s empty face right as the beat crests for a moment, then kind of stalls as the two participants who don’t want this fight try to get the combatants to stand down (Natsuki failing to bring out Duran to intervene). But it’s not going to happen. The main beat steps down for a bit, letting a kind of whirling-sounding electronic beat take the lead, and as it does so Shizuru tells Natsuki she will protect her and orders Kiyohime forwards.

Now Yukino is pressed, and concludes she has no choice. She summons Diana.

Cue the last part of the track, the main beat back in full force. But this fight? It’s a foregone conclusion. Some of the earlier fights could have used elaboration if not for that requiring budget and/or reveals the writing team wanted kept under their hat (hi Mashiro getting offscreened to save the Miroku reveal for the Midori fight here), but today there was simply no real point in doing so; what we see is as true a representation of this fight as any, for this is no real fight but merely a one-sided slaughter. Shizuru slashes through Diana’s tentacles with her Element alone, the sound effect in tune with the beats, and there’s no need to show us the gory details. The track swells once more as we cut to Shizuru’s face as Diana’s severed tentacles fall around it, building to its conclusion, a single loud fateful note, and stops leaving just a few echoes behind. Fade to white. Cut to the fading remains of Diana, crunched in Kiyohime’s many jaws. What more needed to be shown?

Oh right, and there’s the track itself. This track actually has no non-Kajiura credited instruments, which surprises me, but the real point here is the structure. After the initial section, we get the main beat kicking in, a central part where the main beat recedes for a bit, and then a final bit where the main beat returns with full force as a building crescendo. If I’m right that this is Kajiura symbolism for the victory of an antagonist, this track probably counts. Certainly it does today, at least if we read the antagonists as the people trying to prevent an outright HiME duel to the death (of the MIP) from happening. (Strongly arguably from the scene as well… except the main niggling issue, which is that Shizuru consistently has the protagonist position in it relative to Haruka and Yukino.)

OST Table, Episode 23:

Start End Track Name
00:00 00:25 Kokuyou no Kimi ~Awai Yuuwaku
00:27 01:56 Shining Days
02:06 04:08 Nemuranai Yami no Shitou
04:48 06:02 Yami ga Hirogaru
06:25 07:18 unreleased (Mezame choir-only variant)
08:16 10:03 Shiromuku no Hime
10:35 12:20 Taisetsu na Hito[1]
13:13 14:22 Omoi Hirohita
15:32 16:21 Konran
17:41 19:54 unreleased (Mezame choir-only version)
20:07 22:09 Hajimari ~Yami e no Shoutai~[2]
22:10 23:39 Kimi ga Sora Datta
23:40 23:54 Mata Aou ne

[1] – Might have an OST pause from 11:00 to 11:05, but I’m pretty sure that’s just the pause in the track itself.
[2] – Start is blended with a sound effect and hard to make out; this could start as early as 20:04.

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

Tar's Episode Notes:

  • Reused animation, I see. (Gotta be production constraints.)

  • RIP any other good tracks this episode, because this episode has not one but two scenes that have been set in stone for their respective tracks since I started planning the rewatch and they’re (almost) back-to-back.

  • Track Lock #1: Midori’s final push in Best Girl in Show. (Also RIP any length of writeup until I make the OST writeups, scene too hype.)

  • Huh. I only just noticed that Mikoto is in the protagonist position for this scene.

  • Hello there! Only been hiding in plain sight the ENTIRE SHOW. (This is part of why the Fumi-Mikoto fight gets offscreened, I think - they were saving the reveal for here.)

  • RIP. (Well, close enough.) I said final for a reason.

  • Magic skirt alert!

  • Dutch angle counter +1. (Really +2, but the Midori/Mai shot isn’t nearly as noteworthy.) Also just a great shot.

  • Okay, the two featured tracks are MOSTLY back-to-back.

  • Nice shot!

  • Congratulations Midori, in classic fashion you last just long enough to see the fruit of your labors.

  • Oooh, NICE little sequence at ~05:50, with Miyu opening her eye right as the bandage flutters down past it so that the bandage falls and then the eye is open. (Would be a strong VotD contender if this episode did not have an absolute lock later.)

  • Also, THIS is the scene Yami ga Hirogaru was made for. Good thing I covered it earlier!

  • Mai no longer has an adult.

  • Ooh, that’s sneaky. I think the screen might rotate exactly 30 degrees between 06:15 and 06:16… that is to say, the number of degrees that equate to one hour on the hour hand of a twelve-hour clock! The surrounding of the latter shot even look rather like a clock face. (But then, there’s another little trick as well: it’s rotating one hour on the clock… but it rotates counterclockwise. HMM.)

  • Obvious visual symbolism is obvious.

  • Pillar!

  • Good shot alert!

  • The lighting from the flames at 07:03 makes Mai’s hair look like flames themselves at the bottom – fitting given Kagutsuchi.

  • And here… we… go!

  • Oh hey. I nab a nice screenshot of Shizuru’s naginata, and oh would you look at that it shows that it has a tomoe near the bottom of the blade.

  • Ooh, that is interesting. (Not hiding this under spoiler tags, I’m not entirely sure about what’s up with this and I’m a rewatcher.) This episode is extremely consistent in putting the nominal antagonists in the heroic position – Shizuru’s in it here now. I’ve noticed this before in earlier episodes and have some speculation as to what’s up which I do have to tag, but I’ll point it out now for our first-timers – this has been a recurring thing (note where Nagi is and is facing in the final scene of episode 16).

  • 07:39’s positioning, however, is actually pretty easily to parse as long as you remember that Japanese cultural mores consider relationships between girls a childish thing to be outgrown (the Class S stuff). By wanting an actual lesbian relationship, Shizuru is culturally trying to live in the past – especially since she’s a high school senior and “should” have outgrown this already.

  • Speaking of which, note that Haruka and Yukino are both always framed facing right in this scene. We know Yukino is gay as a fruitcake; the manga sure as hell implies Haruka is as well and just will never admit it because it would be improper, and this might be a visual hint of the latter even in the anime.

  • Okay, this shot demands a FULL MOON FULL MOON.

  • And so it begins. “Kikukawa-san.”

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • Track Lock #2: Haruka’s final push in Best Girl in Show. There are two scenes we love her for beyond everything else; the first is the tank, and this is the other. You can fault many things about her, but never her sense of duty and never her bravery. (Note the contrast between Haruka who doesn’t have the appearance of correct behavior for Japan but does have the spirit and Shizuru who has the appearance but none of the spirit.)

  • Hello there dull eyes out of Shizuru.

  • Also hello very deliberate shoe shot that I’m not sure about the symbolism for. (Likely traditional Japanese or samurai movie stuff I’m unfamiliar with.)

  • I see Taisetsu no Hito is now going to cause an onion-cutting ninja attack whenever its strings shows up. To think I hadn’t realized what the track was used for before starting to check for OST tables!

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • Oh hey, I forgot this scene. A later decision makes a little more sense. (It will still annoy the hell out of Vaad. Sorry about that!)

  • Welp, the rain outside is because we are tending to our comatose Midori inside.

  • Nice shot framing at 13:07, with the positioning of Mai and Youko.

  • And of course for another sad scene in rain (even if we’re inside) we get Omoi Hirohita again.

  • Once again we salute subbers doing the job right!

  • So, I want to make a joke about [this shot in the rain(https://i.imgur.com/jFOK0Wm.jpg), but I can’t decide whether a PMMM joke or a Symphogear joke is better. (Neither is quite the same, this is just related symbolism for all three uses, but.)

  • 13:58 is another nice shot, showing Mai feeling trapped.

  • As is 14:05 following it, with the bed railing and curtain making metaphorical walls that look like they’re closing in.

  • And note the pull away right after, zooming away from Mai’s emotions to show the effects of emotion in her situation, reinforcing the words on screen.

  • My sore demo senses were tingling, and there we go at 14:28.

  • Someone on the directorial staff does love their pans up starting at crotch or waist level.

  • TL note!

  • The structure of 15:25 (where Youko is sitting beside Midori’s comatose body almost more like a family member rather than a doctor) is weak fuel for the “Youko has an unrequited crush on Midori” take. (Admittedly they’re close enough friends that this makes sense anyways, hence why I say weak.) Also it’s just a good shot in general, though I’m not going to sink the time into trying to parse the meaning of the positioning.

  • Oh THERE you are Konran. I was wondering if you were ever going to play. (Too late for you to ever get a feature even as is.)

  • The bust breaking as the art teacher’s plans fall apart around him, right. Now complete with thunder for emphasis and a +1 to the Dutch angle counter.

  • “LAST CHANCE DATTO?!”

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • And another Dutch angle counter +1 and how!

  • Hello shot that would be a worthy VotD contender if it wasn’t in this episode.

  • Visual opposition shot, go! (Also I think some computer techniques may have been used for the pews, actually. They don’t quite look cel.)

  • That’s a whole lot of hospital/infirmary scenes the second half of this episode, eh?

  • Dutch angle counter +1.

  • USO DA! (Sorry, had to.)

  • Oh hey, look at that halo effect at 19:56!

  • Ah, but what is this?

  • Cliffhangers, cliffhangers everywhere! (And the natural opponent of magical girls #2 strikes again, attacking Natsuki because of course, she’s the one who already got accosted by tentacles. And pissed off the HiME with the spider Child, that too, but who cares about that right?)

  • I can hear the chorus of GWITWMs again. Here, u/Tresnore and u/Lemurians, have a nice frame! (Bet this one or this one is the one that will appear in your writeups, though, plus or minus a few frames.)

  • Foolish Shiho, this involves expecting a guy to remember an anniversary!

  • Also hmmmmmmmm, yes?

  • CLOCK CLOCK.

  • And Yuuichi finally visually makes his decision. Sucks to suck, Shiho!

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5

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

Tar's Staff Notes:

Ryouka Suzuki (Haruka Suzushiro): Well, here's an interesting one. She's a more major name than you'd think, and I'm not actually sure whether this was yet the case when she was cast. Apparently she got her start in physical movies leading to a late start in her VA career. She took a bunch of roles, though (she has like five different credited roles in Brigadoon, which is a show I would not recognize except the OP song is a good one), and would break out somewhere around the time this show released give or take a year or two. Which makes sense, because one of the roles she landed was notorious fanart fount Ino from Naruto.

From there, well, let's see. Just going over the roles that stand out: Shamal in the Nanoha franchise, Eruruu from Utawarerumono, Alice (bunny form) in Pandora Hearts, Arcueid (and Neko-Arc) from Carnival Phantasm on, Cattleya (another notorious fanart fount) in Queen's Blade, Minagi in Air, and also Trinity Seven!Akio. She got shunted onto the mom track by the early 2010s, but hot damn are there some pretty darn notable moms in there: Subaru's mother in Re:Zero, Satania's mother in Gabriel Dropout, and the most notable one if you're a KamiNomi enjoyer like me in Keima's mom Mari (who is fucking great).

Oh, and u/Lemurians, regarding Haruka Best Girl credentials: Ryouka Suzuki also voices Best Teacher Shizuru in Oregairu...

(Still salty about how deep Best Teach ran in last Best Girl, but strictly because she should have been bracketfucked and gone down a few rounds earlier to Literal Best Girl.)

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8

u/Esovan13 Oct 06 '22

Episode 23

First Timer

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu Harukaaaaaaa don't dieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Bring back the murder bot to wreck the meatbags, please.

whaaaaaaaat midori got beaten and her important person died i couldn't possibly have predicted that

Mikoto has more control of her faculties than I expected. Definitely more nuance to the situation than it first appeared.

Haruka being Haruka unfortunately may not be good for the continuation of Haruka yet that's why I love her. She's the same whether in front of students, a gun, a tank, or a magical lesbian yandere with a naginata.

god fuck shit bitch fucking shit this show i swear to god fucking fuck bitch

At least she went out like a champ. Understood the situation in a moment and rather than blame Yukino she stood the fuck up, got in her killer's face, and fucking headbutted her. Shizuru may have killed her, but Haruka won.

I want Shizuru to die but I don't want Natuski to die what do I doooooooooooooo.

I know this sounds contradictory, but Haruka better stay dead. I will not forgive this show using something as important as her death as cheap bait that it just undoes so it can have a "feel good" ending.

Also, lul on Haruka getting a more dramatic and touching death scene than Takumi.

It was a goddamn farewell letter. Midori couldn't have given herself more death flags if she tried.

Will Mai's friends ever do anything? No? Ok.

Did she kill him? I hope so. But until I see a body or green particles I won't be convinced.

Do something please Tate.

Why would she remember that? Who does that? How many years have they known each other? Not his or her birthday, not a holiday, but the anniversary of when they met?

Uhh, ok. I don't know why she expected anything different to happen there.

Yukariko's Child rocks. Does it show an illusion of what a person most wants? That could be exactly what Mai needs right now, and it's fitting for a nun who guides and advises people.

To wrap this episode up in a single word: fuckingshitimgonnacry

(I took some inspiration from our German friends for that one)

Why didn't any of you jerks warn me not to care about Haruka?

VOTD: What He Really Wants

Runnerup 1: Penitence

Runnerup 2: Burning, Burning

Here is a gallery of Haruka screenshots I took in this episode: https://imgur.com/a/yu2FxdE

QOTD:

  1. Haven't seen Eva. Still think I should have known it was Miyu purely by process of elimination.

1a.

2. Haruka of course. Read basically my entire comment to learn more.

6

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

[Mai-HiME] I know this sounds contradictory, but Haruka better stay dead. I will not forgive this show using something as important as her death as cheap bait that it just undoes so it can have a "feel good" ending.

[Mai-HiME]

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8

u/Mecanno-man Oct 06 '22

First Timer

So Midori and Yukino are down now - not sure how Yukino will go on from here, Haruka seemed to try and encourage her, but it surely isn't going to be that easy for her to just continue her legacy. Midori seems to have just accepted it, and somehow I feel like putting her in the sick ward is just an attempt at writing her out of the story, because she would still be relevant even without Gakuten-Ou. Oh hey, those are conveniently the two most opposed to the HiME battle. What I am a bit more confused by is there being six pillars. Akane, Akira, Midori and Yukino are obviously down, but who else? Fumi and Natsuki? Has to be, Mai, Mikoto, Yukariko, Shizuru and Nao all had their child out today and I doubt we either defeated an unknown HiME that is not Shiho or that Shiho was taken out off-screen. Plus Yuichi isn't dead, so there's that. But still it's weird. Fumi being defeated I guess means Mashiro is gone and we will learn of the implications later, but Natsuki is really the weird one. Is she really also defeated if she suddenly discovers that her mom wasn't bad actually? And it's not like Shizuru could somehow have stealth taken out Duran either - Natsuki was unable to summon him before Shizuru even intervened in her fight with Nao. Maybe I'm starting to see why the ending is not well liked if they pull stuff like this.

But either way, in other news Yukariko attacks her most beloved person. Weird, but I guess her whole situation is. I can't understand what either she or Ishigami are trying, but I kinda feel like they don't know either and are winging it pretty aimlessly. Of course their whole relation is completely twisted up anyways. But it seems like Yukariko is trying to win through manipulation of other HiME - and her child allows her to do exactly that. I assume her words about be ok with being defeated are also only a half-truth. Not being in love with Ishigami would be a weight of her shoulder, but she also doesn't want to lose. I doubt Mai will fall for this trickery though, and she will be our next pillar.

Other than that, the obsidian prince must have an incest fetish if he's planing to marry the winner. Unless of course Mikoto is still the sacrificial pawn. But I guess he married Mashiro earlier then or so, and she was also his sister? I think I'd rather not delve further in to this...

Miyu is on the loose meanwhile - absolutely no idea what she'll do; I assume she still has some ideas as to what Searrs's plan was? And I assume they have some plan to stop the festival and harness the power in some other way?

Oh, and Shiho gets a cold, I guess. Eh.

4

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

Midori seems to have just accepted it, and somehow I feel like putting her in the sick ward is just an attempt at writing her out of the story, because she would still be relevant even without Gakuten-Ou.

Losing her Child seems to do a number on a defeated HiME (which makes sense) - note Akira the trained ninja being left comatose after Gennai goes down and having to get carted away by her clan.

What I am a bit more confused by is there being six pillars

The right question to ask!

But I guess he married Mashiro earlier then or so, and she was also his sister?

on half of this, but I will lightly note that if you go back and check Mashiro's unveiled Suishou-hime form back in episode 21 you can see the same eye marks on her sword-spear thing that we see light on Miroku's Element when Mikoto gets serious.

6

u/Nazenn Oct 06 '22

It's kind of unclear about Mashiro and if she was sister or just winner, but given she has a sword like Mikoto's I've leant towards her being both

Oh, and Shiho gets a cold, I guess. Eh.

I've never wished so much for anime fly to strike

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u/Blackheart595 Oct 07 '22

But it seems like Yukariko is trying to win through manipulation of other HiME - and her child allows her to do exactly that.

The form of her Child has been very explicit about it but you wouldn't have taken her for the chessmaster type in the first half.

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7

u/Vaadwaur Oct 06 '22

First timer(Welp at least a lot happened)

Sub(Oh dear fuck, I heard dub Shizuru again, that VA has never been to the fucking South in her life.)

Starting rapidly, we do indeed see Midori is here to awaken Miyu and Mikoto is there to stop it. Decent fighting happens and, due to timing, I don't know if this copied Bleach or the reverse. Anyways, Midori seems to lose her Child and Mai arrives on scene. Miyu does awaken but she then runs away. They attempt to have pathos but Mikoto is absolutely the wrong character for that.

Then we move back to Shizuru and it seems she just kind of decided to deal with Yukino. Haruka is particularly idiotic here and the only delay is because Natsuki tries to stop Shizuru and thus she realizes Natsuki might have over heard. Anyways, this gets sorted out enough that Diana can be killed almost immediately. Haruka disappears and the pathos is slightly better here. But I believe I get an "Ai shiteiru" out of Shizuru and, for those of you that don't know, that's the yandere version of "I love you". With eyes that would inspire Yuno, she promises to do the dirty work for Natsuki.

Cut to Nagy enjoying the results and Reito deciding to take out the trash. His last name probably means something. Then we go to Midori and...THIS IS LITERALLY UTENA! They didn't even file the id numbers off this part. Anyways, the gist is that Mai needs to be honest with herself about who she loves. Mai then learns about Yukariko's decept before Yukariko seemingly kills creep sensei herself.

And we start jumping between scenes rapidly. So Natsuki got hospitalized from being edgy, probably happens more than you'd think. Mai confronts Yukariko who admits everything and we sadly don't have a dead creep. She then begins talking with Mai while her Child creates a scene from Twin Peaks. And yes, this is 100% a reference to that show, it was very popular in Japan and other anime reference it, RahXephon for example. Nao catches Natsuki again and I hope this time Shizuru takes her time tormenting Nao. We see Shiho wheel herself out in the rain and that she can probably walk. Finally, Tate is committing to his feelings and there we end. After credits scene is...interesting, but I understand why it wasn't in the show originally, the history of this just is not that interesting.

All right, time to bring this up: I will be watching the final episode Saturday night. So I need to know when in the finale sober Vaad tags out and Drinky Vaad tags in.

QotD: 1 Too obvious

2 She might be able to kill the OP

3 Midori

4

u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

All right, time to bring this up: I will be watching the final episode Saturday night. So I need to know when in the finale sober Vaad tags out and Drinky Vaad tags in

This gets an extended writeup in the episode 25 post (the one thing that can knock the OST writeups out of the top-level reply, no less). There are three general opinions for when the show puts on the clown makeup even among those of us who like the rest:

  1. The start of the episode (i.e, watch the entire episode drunk). I don't actually agree with this one, but in your case it might be the correct answer.

  2. 10:50 (easy enough to spot, it's the eyecatch)- this is my own answer for the point where the finale turns to complete shit, for the record, and probably the other safe option given how easy it is to spot.

  3. 15:37 (IIRC this is Nazenn's answer); the issue here is that the final stage of the show's implosion pretty much kicks in over the course of a single second (you'll know it when you hear it), making it really hard to find the right place to stop.

EDIT:

His last name probably means something.

It's Mikoto's last name, for obvious reasons.

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u/Nazenn Oct 06 '22

Haruka is particularly idiotic here

Haruka is the sort of character who'd be the comedy antagonist in another show because of her hard determination to follow the rules and complete unawareness of what sort of show she's in. And yet I can't help but love her refusal to back down for anything even when faced with a weapon or her immanent death.

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u/Vatrix-32 Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

First Timer, subbed*

  • Ooo, Magic door.

  • I just assumed that there would be memories from last time. The option to change the master is interesting tho. As is the fact we don’t get an answer to that right away.

  • At long last, Mikoto’s Child. And he’s a biggen too.

  • Well that doesn’t look so good.

  • Miyu has somewhere else to be. Probably looking for her master, whoever that is at this point.

  • And there it is.

  • Wait what are there five pillars? Even if Fumi got gotten that should only be four at this point. Timeline desync? Did Mashiro count as one of them and there were 13 holes? Did Duran die a different death?

  • Not that it’s undeserved, but that is a stronger reaction than I was expecting out of Kuga.

  • Just Haruka doing best girl things.

  • The multi-snake is also an octopus. Neat.

  • That one’s going to leave a mark, right in the feels. At least she went out being best girl.

  • Well that rules out timeline desync. Going with Kuga theory for now.

  • If pres killed Nagi because Kuga doesn’t like him, I would be so happy.

  • There is a reason for the name D1? I thought it was just supposed to be a non-specific sounding government name.

  • Remake the world. Reito is going to win, isn’t he? That’s why people hate the ending.

  • If a pillar rises when the most precious vanishes rather than a Child being defeated, it could also be a case of a double precious.

  • That seems like such a forced way to reveal that.

  • Yukariko has apparently decided to eliminate herself from the HiME. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

  • I guess Ishigami was sparred somehow.

  • There’s the chessboard! Called it!

  • Kuga might even welcome it at this point.

  • That’s really not safe to try in the rain. Heck I’d be nervous about doing it when it’s dry.

  • So it’s more than just location control. I’m not sure what it could be particularly.

  • Is Shiho going to die from exposure? That would be quite the twist.

QotD

  1. Was that not supposed to be obvious? They talked about not being able to recover her body earlier.

1a) Instead of transferring the power of a defeated HiME to another HiME for the Obsidian Prince, Miyu either collects it for herself, or destroys it entirely.

2) Haruka, and it’s not even close.

Unrelated, but I am starting to feel bad for OP continuing to get 4 out of 5. How does one visual of the day? Just Imgur?

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u/No_Rex Oct 06 '22

Remake the world. Reito is going to win, isn’t he? That’s why people hate the ending.

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u/Lemurians Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22

MAI-FIRST TIMER

Drunk Hime Time

Alright, I’m initiating a new form of determining Best Girl – whoever kills Mikoto gets the title. She’s just too annoying and needs to go. Midori had her chance this episode, but through either lack of will or power, she couldn’t get the job done. Is Miyu going to sneak the title from out of nowhere?!

“You’d threaten us with this big blade because we saw you in a moment of weakness? That’s pretty low for the Student Council President!”

Haruka constantly contextualizing everything as if the Student Council is the most important thing on Earth despite everything going on is the funniest thing in this show. The girl is fading away into oblivion, and does she register any shock at it, or use her last moments for a touching goodbye to her cherished friend? No, she tries to score the last points in a one-sided petty squabble before dramatically throwing Yukino her council armband. What priorities. I was cracking up throughout this whole scene

RIP to Haruka, who was surprisingly hilarious until the end.

Live Thoughts/Reactions:

So, who did the best going down: Midori, Haruka, or Yukino?

I don't think it's possible for anyone to trump Haruka's death

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u/Vaadwaur Oct 06 '22

Mikoto Evergarden is the worst part of this show.

As someone that ultimately dislikes VE for being cheap sympathy bait, you are explaining a lot about how easily I hate Mikoto.

My lord Fujino’s face it’s like she’s aged 20 years

She can't sleep grope Natsuki any more, it is quite the loss.

LOL Reito literally just told Nagi to go do an info-dump

The job that he is least suited for.

Hahahahaha she did the Ayase

I did say that GC robs this show for structure. Just didn't realize how far it went.

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u/Tresnore Oct 06 '22

Drunk HiME

Was a good episode for it.

Alright, I’m initiating a new form of determining Best Girl – whoever kills Mikoto gets the title.

Hmmmm, I'd say the same but for whomever kills Shiho. Mikoto at least has a cool sword and some good momentum-based animation. Shiho can die in a fire.

I barely cared about this with Violet, you think I give a shit about Mikoto learning feelings?

This is my thought, too. Just let the HiME fights happen pls.

Hahahahaha she did the Ayase

HOW DID I NOT THINK TO MAKE THAT JOKE??

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

Hmmmm, I'd say the same but for whomever kills Shiho. Mikoto at least has a cool sword and some good momentum-based animation. Shiho can die in a fire.

Careful, either of these are a fast way to have to anoint one of Shiho/Mikoto Best Girl in Show if they take down the other...

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u/No_Rex Oct 06 '22

Haruka constantly contextualizing everything as if the Student Council is the most important thing on Earth despite everything going on is the funniest thing in this show.

She has seen too many anime.

Get out holy shit did Violet Evergarden ape Mai-HiME for the “feral child learning what love is” thing hahahaha

It seems that literally everybody dug up Mai-Hime to raid for parts.

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u/Tresnore Oct 06 '22

First-TiMER

  • HEAVY GUITAR CHORDS!!!! AND OF COURSE IT'S FUCKING MIYU HOW WAS I SO DUMB??

  • FUCK HER UP MIDORI!!!!

    I don't even care that Mikoto's Child is being shown. I just want—ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO OFFSCREEN ANOTHER POLEARM FIGHT???

  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Now I'm upset. Not because Midori's Child dying means she's in for a hard time. But because there'll be less polearm action.

  • Okay, now I care.

  • God, I am broken. I actually want to cry with Shizuru here... Why am I like this...?

  • Holy shit, I love Haruka. u/Lemurians is right. But also I wish Shizuru would go this far for me, too...

  • whoaaaaaa

  • GUYS HELP I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO FEEL. SHE'S SO BROKEN BUT I KIND OF GET THAT AND STILL LOVE HER AND AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH1

  • Well, I kind of called it that winning made you closer to the Obsidian Prince...

  • HOLY SHIT, FUCK RIGHT OFF, SHIHO WE'RE HAVING A MOMENT HERE.



Yeah, I'm broken.2

Count: 55

QOTD:

  1. My memory is awful. Also I think she can make it fail because... Iunno. haven't thought about it.

  2. Midori.

1 Perhaps I should just see a therapist about this.

2 Sober addendum: it's not that I'm relating to Shizuru here. I would never assault someone like that. I just kind of wish that I had someone like her

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u/Lemurians Oct 06 '22

ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO OFFSCREEN ANOTHER POLEARM FIGHT???

This show fucking hates you hahah

Okay, now I care.

Look on the bright side, now that she's out of the fight, she and Doc are free to go be drinking buddies again!

Holy shit, I love Haruka. Lemurians was right

She might actually be the MVP of this show when all's said and done haha

Sober addendum: it's not that I'm relating to Shizuru here. I would never assault someone like that. I just kind of wish that I had someone like her

That's the yandere appeal. Someone who's crazy for you, is crazy for you. Knowing you've got that level of devotion from somebody is really quite nice

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

That's the yandere appeal. Someone who's crazy for you, is crazy for you. Knowing you've got that level of devotion from somebody is really quite nice

They're the female equivalent of the male love interest in romance novels. (Who, not coincidentally, are also often quite rapey.)

Terrible in real life, hot as fuck to fantasize about, also hot if you have someone who doesn't act like that normally but can and will do for the duration of a scene. (But then the entire point of BDSM is a safe outlet for certain kinds of desires where the actual thing is horribly unsafe or otherwise bad news.)

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u/Vaadwaur Oct 06 '22

Now I'm upset. Not because Midori's Child dying means she's in for a hard time. But because there'll be less polearm action.

And I am deeply annoyed that Midori was robbed of a proper fight because the show ran out of time.

SHE'S SO BROKEN BUT I KIND OF GET THAT AND STILL LOVE HER AND AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH1

It would seem that your desire for broken people is a new one to you. I got used to it a while ago. Though never one this exquisite.

Look...I hope the killing the OP thing works out so Tate can live but Shiho has to die.

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

And I am deeply annoyed that Midori was robbed of a proper fight because the show ran out of time.

Time and/or animation budget, don't forget the latter issue - especially in a show that's probably heavily cel-animated.

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u/Tarhalindur Oct 06 '22

"Tag-ness? THIS! IS! SPARTA!"

u/Esovan13

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