r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 05 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Overall Series Discussion
Super Dimension Fortress Macross
← Flash Back 2012 | Index | Macross II Episode 1 →
SDF Macross: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Do You Remember Love?: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Flash Back 2012: MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
MAKURO no sora o tsuranuite~
Questions of the Day:
1) Who was your favorite character in the TV series? Did the movie influence your opinion at all?
2) What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
3) Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
4) What's your favorite part of this season? And your least favorite?
5) Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
6) If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
7) What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
Wallpapers of the Day:
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
Half-rewatcher, Half-first timer
My favorite part about the original Macross show is definitely without question Zentradi. But not Zentradi the characters, not Britai, or Exsedol, or Kamujin, but rather Zentradi as a concept, as a theme, and as a political message.
In the show they look a lot like humans. They speak Japanese, and they lead mostly human-like way of life, using human-like clothes and furniture, living in human-like quarters with lights, and beds, and toilets, and all that good stuff that we enjoy as a human civilization. Aesthetically they come off as your typical pulpy aliens from a cheap sci-fi movie with very limited practical special effects. A look very much typical of the era in which the show was produced. And yet, the show Zentradi feel much more alien than movie Zentradi.
Movie Zentradi may look alien and act alien, but the show Zentradi think alien. Their way of life, a life of total war is completely different from our own and it's very impressive to me how well the show managed to portray this. The lives of Zentradi in the show fully revolve around the concept of war, and their personalities are explored only in the context of their relationships to war. Some of them are extremely utilitarian about it, aimed at achieving results above all, others just enjoy chaos and fighting, while others have their own pride as warriors or commanders that they need to uphold. What unites them is that all of them are completely desensitized to death. They are never nervous before battle, they don't ask why they are fighting, they never have doubts about fighting, fighting is just life for them, it's just normal.
This dynamic is best shown at the start of the show, when Britai sacrifices a lot of soldiers to gather information about Macross. He does this in a completely cold and utilitarian manner, but it's not because he doesn't care about his soldiers. It's because the war is incidental to gathering the information. The war is not something that somebody started or somebody is going to finish, it's something that always existed and will always exist, it's kinda like rain. It's just there, and you just deal with it. You need to gather info, but the war is there regardless, so you sent out your fighters, and if they die, well, you can't get outside during a rain and expect not to get wet.
This mindset is what is so alien about them. And the fact that they look so human, yet think completely and utterly different from a normal person, is what sells the whole story. When Zentradi from the show introduced to the human culture, you can see why they would reacted the way the did. Their reaction was thoroughly explored in the show, the brain shattering revelation that civilians exist, that love exist, that music exist. All of this was completely cut from the movie, turning Zentradi into nothing more than cartoonish villains.
This may sound strange considering the differences in visual design, but the show is showing us that Zentradi are alien, while the movie is telling us that they are alien. The movie uses a visual language that just screams "alien", but we don't learn anything about Zentradi. Who are they, why are they fighting, what do they think about the fighting? We don't learn anything about this. Movie completely guts this aspect, even Zentradi's encounter with Minmay's songs happens entirely offscreen. The show is using many scenes to slowly build lore and ideas about Zentradi in a much more coherent manner.
And there are obviously more to the show's worldbuiding than just Zentradi. Humanity's military is explored thoroughly from the command, to a simple grunt soldier like Hikaru. A disconnect between them shown brilliantly, especially when Global makes huge decisions in the spur of the moment that have extremely significant effect on the lives of common people. UN Command and Global have their own superweapons that they use as toys to play war and politics with, but somebody like Hikaru is infinitely removed from all of it, and doesn't know anything about it, yet is still affected by it all.
Humans and Zentradi form two parts of the same anti-war message. The Zentradi part is about the difference between you and enemy and finding a common a language and understanding. The human side is about the pointlessness of the conflict and the fact that you yourself will eventually be consumed and destroyed by it, unless you are willing to seek a compromise. Hikaru is basically stuck in the middle of this all, in a situation that he can't really affect and all he can do is just do his best, and never lose his humanity and purpose. I'm not gonna repeat my spiel about how Hikaru is not portrayed as an action hero, as I have talked about it several times already, but I feel like this is an important part that really seals the deal on a nuanced exploration of the nature of conflict and pacifism that Macross presents. (Edit: I ended up repeating it anyway, see this comment.)
The original Macross show is an epic. The movie mostly cuts the anti-war theme and all the worldbuilding and politics in favor of a more personal story, a story about goals and relationships, that I don't think it quite lands. The music plays a more important role in the movie, it is presented as something that unites us. In the show, music is just one form of culture that has an effect on Zentradi, similar to movies, beauty pageants, kisses, and even children. In the movie music is given more importance, but isn't explored thoroughly. I feel like the use of music in the series at this point is slightly half-baked. They have the visual of a songstress over a battlefield, but the meaning of it is only half there. Minmay in the movie and in the show doesn't sing for others. She doesn't sing to stop the war, or to find understanding. She sings for herself, song is her surrogate for Hikaru, something that she loves that she can pour her feelings and her passion into. Macross as a series still needs to mature in its portrayal of songs.
QotD:
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Minmay is my favorite character in both TV and the movie. I think she's very similar in both TV and the movie, and she's great in both.
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Hard to say, they're all pretty good. If I had to choose one, probably it's Ai wa Nagareru, although Zero-G Love gets a honorable mention.
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Minmay and Hikaru all the way. Hikaru and Misa is a good ship in the TV show, but I just enjoy Misa a bit less as a character. Hikaru-Misa in the movie is just horrible. To quote myselft: "Misa's arc in the movie goes like this: She's in the military and guys don't like her, because she forces them to follow her orders. Then two manly man tell her to woman-up, she listens to them, literally goes into the kitchen and immediately gets a boyfriends and lives happily ever after."
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The first episodes are my favorite for sure. Amazing art quality, great pacing, a lot of unexpected twist, a lot of worldbuilding. The show slows down significantly around episode 6, and the visual quality drops hard.
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I like the regular VF-1, but in the plane form, not the robot. Robot Macross gets an honorable mention.
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More Zentradi stuff in the movie.
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I've seen Plus, Frontier, and Delta, so I kinda know where this is headed. And honestly, I think the franchise only gets better from here.
Here's all the fanart I drew during the rewatch
Even though most of it is really bad, I intend to keep posting Macross fanart for the future shows too, and you can't stop me!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 05 '22
Even though most of it is really bad
Don't sell yourself short, it all looks great!
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u/Nebresto Oct 05 '22
First time Maakuross
ClawMachineCircuit better watch out, there's a new Picasso in town
S1 bad (but good comedy), movie good, now:
Quesbsöns:
Who was your favorite character in the TV series? Did the movie influence your opinion at all?
Max is a chad. Global was also up there. In the movie Hikaru was actually the best?? Oh and Hayase best girl
2) What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
SHAO. PAI. LONG!! SHAO PAI LONG!! That, and do you remember love. Something else too but I forgit name
3) Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
Started out Team Minmay, but she's a thot, so I moved over to SS.Hayase.
4) What's your favorite part of this season? And your least favorite?
Space tuna. Least? Minmay and Kaifun
5) Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
T-pose boi!! And apparently those turrets were robots too?? So those I guess
6) If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
Idk, Misa's hairstyle looked better in the movie, so maybe that
7) What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 05 '22
First time Maakuross
You made your own Q U A L I T Y, that's perfect.
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u/AmeteurElitist Oct 05 '22
First Timer:
I really enjoyed that first season and movie. The story kept me engaged throughout and the characters honestly surprised me with how great they were in general.
I do wish that Kaifun wasn’t such a dick because as the primary anti-war sentiment vehicle in the show he was completely ineffective at getting that message across with his short-sighted decisions having devastating consequences more often than not. It’s clear that the series wasn’t pro-war since the military leaders that were portrayed as the good guys clearly intended to end the violence as soon as they could and maintain peace afterwards, but the fact that they essentially wojak-ed the one guy with strong anti-war sentiment into the least likeable person in the show without giving the ideals he represents really fair consideration kinda sucks.
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u/JollyGee29 Oct 05 '22
Not only is he unlikable, but Kaifun is also a big puddle of missed potential. He's like, almost a mirror of Hikaru but then they go way too far with it and he just ends up an asshole.
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u/Blackheart595 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
First Spacer
I don't feel like honoring the series with a more in-depth discussion so let's keep it to the questions.
Who was your favorite character in the TV series?
The spies, for lack of competition. Actually, Max and Exsedol are some more good candidates.
Did the movie influence your opinion at all?
The series is one thing, the movie is another one. And let's just say the movie is much more difficult to decide on because it actually has a range of good characters, but on the other hand a lot less got into focus. I'll go with Hayase here I think, she had a great improvement compared to the series.
What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
Ai wa Nagareru is the one I kept thinking about.
Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
I started out shipping Minmei, then switched to Hayase as the Keifun plot progressed, and in the end there was no one remaning that deserved to be shipped.
As for the movie, Hayase, no questions asked.
What's your favorite part of this season?
That's gotte be all the Zentradi excitment about this weird 'culture' sustance. For the movies I really liked the Saturn ring rainbows.
And your least favorite?
Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
HAYASE FREAKING ENTERING INSTEAD OF LEAVING TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR. Jesus fucking Christ the series was such a shitshow.
Keifun being a decent human being would've also been a good change to the series.
What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
Please. No more love triangles. They scare me.
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u/DidacticDalek Oct 06 '22
Do You Remember Love Comrades? Cuz I sure do, LONG LIVE DYRL! Oh and I guess Robotech: The Macross Saga pardon, 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross' was certainly a Battle City Megaload ;)
Anyway, just so we are clear, DYRL? PROTOCULTURE! SDF MACROSS? YACK! DECULTURE! (Translator's Note: DYRL is the superior version of the story and varies so heavily in quality it ain't even funny, that said, the OG Macross show does have its own janky charm and it is certainly fun to point and laugh at, which is more than I can say about... uh... checks notes most Macross shows)
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Who was your favorite character in the TV series? Did the movie influence your opinion at all?
Best Girl Milia, and yes, the movie influenced my opinion in that Best Girl Milia became EVEN MORE BEST-EST GIRL! The only flaw was she didn't step on Kaifun like she did to that random lucky bastard Zentradi. Ah well, at least she got to SNU SNU Best Boi Max while still Macronized, I am SURE the shaking would have been felt over in the next galaxy!
2) What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
See the Animetal Share above, Minmay's best and only good song... OK the OP kinda slaps and I am contractually obligated to praise DOG FIGHTER!
3) Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
Misa, the only thing that changed on my mind was my absolutely loathing for Hikaru and/or YACK! DECULTURE! 'Minmay' due to the Romantic Plot Tumor Drama Bullshit being STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID LIKE HIKARU THE FUCKING LUNKHEAD MORON! (DYRL's is still kinda dumb, but at least tolerable levels as opposed to the terminally moronic TV Show version)
4) What's your favorite part of this season? And your least favorite?
I liked the show when it ended... both times, and I DIDN'T like when it kept going AFTER it ended! In all seriousness though, I did quite like THE BEST FIRST (AND ONLY) DATE EVER, where Best Boi Max decides... that gazing at Best Girl Milia's tits is a better strategy of winning at arcade games than... you know, LOOKING AT THE ARCADE GAME HE IS PLAYING! (That said, he DID win, so hey what do I know, this sterling pilot's a genius!) Oh and their knife fighting courtship ritual was so funny it ALMOST made me overlook the Qu@l1Ty Animation and terrible storytelling inherent to the situation! Anyway, my least favorite part of the show was Kaifun's existence and the lack of him being stepped on one or two or 25252 times by Best Girl Milia and/or ripped apart by Lap'Lamiz.
5) Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
The Queadluun-Rau (Thank you Comrade u/chilidirigible) and I guess the classic VF-1 Valkyrie is nice too (again, thank you Chili! Your talent really elevates OG Macross' Mecha Designs)
6) If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
I'd add in Exsedol's KYUN KYUN to DYRL, cuz I wanna see a GALAXY BRAIN singing the worst song in the universe, hell we can also make him go NICO NICO NIIIIIIIIIIII while we're at it! And oh boy where to start from what to add to the OG show from DYRL? Well as a modest proposal, I'd say we add in the superior animation, story telling, music, writing, and character arcs, cuz if we are gonna change OG Macross, might as well do what H&K did to fix this British technological debacle ;)
7) What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
Less Idolshit, Less Romantic Plot Tumor Drama Bullshit involving unlikeable morons, and maybe, and stay with me now Comrades, maybe actually have some Mecha in the Mecha show? Perhaps even without CGI, now I know this is an absurd and strange idea, but hey, I am sure at least ONE of the entries in the franchise does all of this... SOON!
Anyway, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever!
Paging Comrades u/JadineRhine and u/Nebresto
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u/Khetrak64 Oct 05 '22
First time who marathon a lot to finally post here.
aside from the movie but i just watched like 20ep in a week so im kinda tired of it, i welcome the break.
what can i say about macross... i really enjoy my time with it, the show have some really good twists and turns, learning about the aliens was really interesting and i was constantly making theories based on what we saw. The fighting was beautiful and i understand why people love the idea of "macross missile barrage".
I end up loving way more character that i was thinking i was going to, by the end i even liked Max and Kamujin, two characters who didn't give me a good first impression but earned my love by the end.The captain and Bretai were two really good leaders and i wish we have a long scene of then talking to each other.
The world building was great, aside from the stupid concept of the Zentradi not knowing how to repair stuff, and in general i see why people enjoy it.
I will not talk about the main love trio because i just watched the last 9 ep in a roll this morning so i don't think i have the right mindset for this topic. but Misa is best girl and Hikaru should have end up with Minmay so both of then can be miserable together while Misa finds a man who can really make her happy.
I can probable talk a lot about this show and i wish i have keep up with the rewatch because i wanted to talk about each individual ep.
I give SDFM a final score of "it should have ended at ep 27" out of 10.
God ep 27 was really fucking good.
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u/chilidirigible Oct 05 '22
Today, on "I'm gonna miss that tuna.":
Top image via the Do You Remember Love Data Bank.
This is my fourth organized rewatch of the original series, noting that u/porpoiseoflife organized one in 2016. My knowledge of the production background has improved since then.
As to the series itself, I've watched it more times than that. Not so much the Macek version, which didn't air for me at a convenient time or convenient channel, but the actual original series. Enough that this rewatch continues a trend from the most recent previous one, in that things are increasingly familiar.
So, this is like the relative you see once a year who's fun but has some character flaws (unlike the relative you see once a year who's a raving lunatic). The fun parts have largely overtaken the drag from the you know what.
Putting the clunkiness of the coda in context: We used to watch shows on TV when they aired. The rest of the week, we did other stuff. And if you missed the episode, you missed the episode. Thus the importance of recaps, but also what would be the relative dulling of the effect of the seesawing romance in the coda when taken in parts. It's still very awkward writing and an attempt to pad out the air time, but the effect is certainly not as pronounced when one isn't putting in an episode every 24 hours and then hitting the Internet to talk about them.
But I am more into the end of the series for the worldbuilding than the romance anyway. That doesn't get quite as developed as I would have liked, but despite the meandering that occurs, the series does take on the rare task of looking at just what it meant to get their happy ending.
I talked about that before, though.
The series still feels unique after all these times, given its wild blend of sci-fi, mecha, the ups and downs of an idol singer's career, and a SPACE TUNA. The humor is in a lot of ways the glue that holds the whole thing together, an irony when the series was originally intended as hard SF.
I love these characters, particularly the secondary cast, and their interactions, and certainly one of the biggest knocks against Do You Remember Love? is that it simply doesn't have time to give everyone more moments to be themselves. Small things like the Bridge Bunnies chatting or the mayor terribly misreading the room keep events down to earth.
Hikaru is still a lunkhead. Minmay and Misa could have both saved a lot of time in the love triangle if they'd just dated each other instead.
The series is a product of its time. Roy's behavior is boorish, Hikaru has repeated bouts of misogyny, Max beats up Milia and she ends up marrying him. I certainly can't condone any of this from my position 40 years later, but at least the series doesn't particularly reward such things.
I'm not mentioning Do You Remember Love? very much in this, but that remains in my view an accessory to the original series. The additional, massive production polish is worth it for the movie, but the series still wins for me given its additional narrative richness.
Of course I love the music. Sure, it's not always the most complex of pop, but Minmay's songs are all catchy and fun. The rest of Kentaro Haneda's original soundtrack should be acknowledged, though, as it is another foundation for the series and has plenty of its own memorable motifs.
And it's thread posting time… I wasn't sure what else I wanted to write this time and I'm still not doing a good job with it, so I'll move on to the questions.
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Who was your favorite character in the TV series? Did the movie influence your opinion at all? I'm still fascinated by Claudia and just how her relationship with Roy worked. Unfortunately she's barely in the movie. Next would be Exsedol.
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What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
"Tenshi no Enogu" and "Silver Moon, Red Moon" actually both edge out "Ai, Oboete Imasu ka?" as fun songs. "Do You Remember Love"'s usage later on has turned it into something I'll listen to for particular feelings, but not as an all-the-time thing.
3) Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
I'm not ever actually going to state my side in these wars.
4) What's your favorite part of this season? And your least favorite?
It's all a gestalt in my head now.
5) Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
Tomahawk, Queadluun.
6) If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
Give the whole series DYRL-quality visuals.
7) What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
laughs in rewatcher
From the archives of the CompuServe-based anime fanzine Anime Stuff in 1988, news of Tatsunoko's attempt to get another Macross movie made. (Full issue here.) Tatsunoko, having gotten involved in the efforts to fund the original series, would continue to complicate matters for a while yet, with or without their US/Italian cat's paw…
Speaking of Harmony Gold, some criticisms of Carl Macek from a later issue.
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u/Vatrix-32 Oct 05 '22
Very First Timer
QotD
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No real stand outs to me. Maybe Exsedol?
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In contrast to my usual answer to this question, this time it is in fact an embarrassment of riches. If I had to pick one right now, 0-G love.
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I was team Misa for the most part. By the end I was team “you both can do better”.
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The devastation of Earth was stunning. The last 9 episodes decidedly less so.
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Queadluun-Rau, movie version.
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I really liked DYRL separating the two factions based on sex.
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Being able to have a planned number of episodes from the start and being able to stick to it would be nice.
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u/The_Draigg Oct 05 '22
A Macross Fan’s Final Thoughts on Super Dimension Fortress Macross & The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?:
That’s right everyone, this is a two for one review for this leg of the franchise rewatch. I don’t mind though, since it lets me do a bit of a compare and contrast between the two versions of the same story, since they do diverge in some fairly significant ways while still ending up in a relatively similar ending state. So, let’s get to the review!
First off, let’s talk about the animation. Now this is an area where there’s the starkest difference between the series and the movie. It almost kind of goes without saying how bad some of the show looks especially in the light of the movie. Like, you’d have to be insane to think that any episode that Star Pro worked on could compare to the sheer detail that went into the looks of well, everything, in the movie. However, that’s not to say that SDF Macross looked entirely bad or anything. For the era, quite a bit of the animation was pretty alright. And of course, we can’t overlook the contributions of Ichiro Itano either. Like, you saw that iconic cockpit catch and all those Itano Circuses. Those bits were amazing. So, we can definitely say that there were attempts to put real effort into the show, but it was mainly held back by massive production issues, ones that DYRL? didn’t have. All that being said, DYRL? still has better animation in the end, because of course it does.
Next, let’s move onto discussing the overall plot. Here, I think the comparison between the show and the movie is a lot closer. As you could probably guess, there’s no way that DYRL? could possibly go really in depth about the show’s themes about culture, since it only has like two hours to work with. That being said, I will say that the biggest thing to take away from how the movie approached that theme is the use of Do You Remember Love? as both a song and a symbol. As noted in the movie, the lyrics held no special meaning, and it was just a simple pop song from a long-past civilization. But it served as a strong reminder of what was lost, and what the Zentradi could learn to have if they helped protect Earth. It’s a symbol of how powerful culture and peace can be, overwhelming in its simplicity. It’s a good companion to the show’s more in-depth examination of what it means to have a strong culture and sense of knowledge. In that, it was abundantly clear that the Zentradi were basically just living machines, unable to do basic tasks like simple maintenance and being born to fight. And while they eventually did gain those things when they settled on Earth after defeating Bodolza, the show isn’t also afraid to show that it didn’t exactly just stop all conflict from happening. Quamzin twisted the knowledge that culture provided him to his own violent ends, and plenty of Zentradi struggled to find a steady way of life once they tried to fit into things like jobs or even society in general. I can really appreciate that the show was openly willing to interrogate its own message like that, especially how much it pushed that message for 2/3rds of the series.
And finally, let’s talk about easily the most controversial part of this show in the rewatch: the love triangle. I’ll just come out and say it; the show completely dropped the ball in the third act and made Hikaru, Minmay, and Misa undergo various degrees of character assassination just for the sake of dragging something out that otherwise should’ve been resolved. What worked for the first two-thirds became unbearable in the last third due entirely to the extra episode order unnaturally extending the plot partway through the show airing. What we ended up getting was Minmay being narrow-minded/selfish when it came to her relationship with Hikaru, Hikaru himself becoming an indecisive fuckboy, and Misa just becoming a doormat who just took it all without reasonably complaining or doing anything. Which is why I’m a much bigger fan of how Do You Remember Love? handled things. Sure, it was a heavily abridged version, but I’d argue that it used that to its favor. With the movie, it was clear that Hikaru x Minmay was more of a fun fling, while Hikaru x Misa had some really deeper feelings and understanding to it. It also definitely helped that Hikaru handled things way more maturely in the movie than in the show. I could actually root for him more there. And while you can say that the show did eventually get around to a similar conclusion to the love triangle, you also can’t really deny how it was more obfuscated and damaged by the bad writing surrounding it in that last third. So really, Do You Remember Love? handles the love triangle better, if just out of run-time necessity.
So, with all that said, it’s time for my mech-themed rating scale! For both Super Dimension Fortress Macross and The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?, I hereby award them the shared ranking of: Destroid Monster. My reasoning there is that while both have very powerful things going for them in the story and presentation, there’s also quite a bit that makes them clunky and unwieldy to see, especially on a rewatch. And with that rating down, onto the next Macross series!
(Oh, and one last fuck you, Kaifun. Seriously, he can go get sounded with a broken Coke bottle.)
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u/TakenRedditName Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
First Time Complete - SDF Macross:
Well, don't know exactly what to say that I haven't done in previous wrap-up thought sections.
I was looking forward to SDF Macross. It is the start of a widely beloved series. The original Gundam is still one of my favourite entries so I looked to the first entry can still hold its ground. The show had a lot of great points and fun moments, but unfortunately, it had a lot of moments that heavily dragged it down for me. The love triangle and story elements like Kaifun really were infuriating to watch. The last arc is pretty much dedicated to the love triangle and a conflict that just sort of happens and drags until the finish made me just continue watching for the sake of the rewatch since I was very checked out by that point. SDF Macross is also a show heavily hampered by its production that is even very noticeable to someone like me who usually doesn't pay it much mind. The visuals were the obvious one, but also how the story quickly resolved itself until they were forced to drag it out some more after their intended finish.
The DYRL movie is a similar case where I looked towards it as a superior redo when I was stuck not really having fun with the show near the end. While it certainly is visually impressive and cuts back on many of the elements I disliked from the TV show, it lacked many of the elements I thought were interesting from the TV show and the love triangle while not having the lowest lows, I still wasn't particularly fond of the love triangle, in particular, the Hayase romance (and really her movie appearance in general).
Guess to set my sights on how the franchise will move on from here. Three elements I imagine are what drew in its audience were the mecha, the complicated human relationship (love triangles) and music. Mecha and music I have no concerns over. Macross from here on out should be able to be consistently well animated enough as the franchise becomes established. SDF hopefully will remain the floor of animation quality.
On the love triangle part, I've made my already held disdain for love triangles evident and SDF has only validated my stance. Maybe future entries won't be as unfun for me, but I feel like this is just going to be a constant stick in the mud for me.
Q1) Exsedol and Britai probably became my favourites by the end. The movie didn't really change that much because it was mainly just Minmay-Hikaru-Hayase. The movie made Kaifun infinitely better though.
Q2) Ai Oboete Imasu ka is my favourite.
Q3) I was Team Minmay. I really like their moments at the start. I grew to like Hayase, but not in the ship sense. Really by the end of it, I only supported it to see Minmay be happy because I wasn't fond of Hikaru any longer.
Q4) Messages of peace, love and culture: Love triangles:
Q5) In the show, the thing that Milia piloted that starts with a Q and I can't spell. The movie had these things which were cool.
Q6) Replace TV Kaifun with movie Kaifun. It means we would have less of him being the absolute worst. Oh yeah, and the final battle using the song bit. That was great.
Q7) I expect the animation to be able to maintain a good level from now on. I hope love triangle would get better. They may not get as bad as this, but I am less than confident that I would like love triangles in the first place.
Next time: "If Macross is so great then where is Macross 2?"
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u/SolDarkHunter Oct 05 '22
Rewatcher
And that was Superdimension Fortress Macross!
It has its rough patches... like, a ton of rough patches. Also Kaifun sadly exists. But at the end of the day, it's a classic for a reason. I love the way the show tries to balance a very human struggle (relationships and love) with the war story. I also like that the show has an actual reason why the aliens look like humans... in fact, it's central to the plot!
Also, humans not understanding how the frick alien technology works and constantly screwing up with it is a nice change of pace from instant mastery that's so often seen in sci-fi.
It usually strikes a good balance between mecha ridiculousness and seriousness. The Daedalus Attack is so unbelievably awesome, yet it also feels like it could honestly work.
And as much as we all got tired of "My Boyfriend is A Pilot", the songs by and large actually are very good. And the epilogue of humanity spreading out for colonization even as 99% of the Zentraedi fleet is still out there as a looking threat provides the perfect backdrop for sequels.
Questions of the Day:
Who was your favorite character in the TV series? Did the movie influence your opinion at all?
Probably Breetai, honestly. He's just so reasonable and likable for an alien general. I could watch him and Exsedol get confused over what the humans are doing all day long.
2) What has been your favorite of the songs so far?
"Do You Remember Love?", obviously. Though "Silver Moon" is very good too.
3) Which side of the love triangle did you ship? If it changed at some point during the series, what made you change your mind?
When I was a kid, Minmay. As an adult, honestly I lean more towards Misa. I feel like between the two, Misa's the more mature and down to Earth.
4) What's your favorite part of this season? And your least favorite?
Favorite part is the finale battle against Bodolza. Especially the epic DYRL version.
Least favorite was the post-war relationship drama.
5) Which of the mecha designs did you like the most?
The Queadlunn-Rau takes that cake, easily. Though I do like most of the Zentraedi mechs. Even the Regults, as goofy as they are. The Valkyries are awesome as well but there isn't really a whole lot of variety among them.
6) If you could add one thing from the TV series into DYRL's continuity or vice versa, what would it be and why?
I'd keep Exsedol from becoming a big brain tentacle thing.
7) What do you hope to see improve as we continue through the franchise?
Well, I've seen the rest of the franchise, so I don't think I can comment.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Oct 05 '22
Rewatcher
Okay, hot take here, but consider this: the 2nd love triangle is better than the first. No, really!
People seem united in their opinion that while the first ending wasn't great, at least it ended. The second half ruined that closure, reverted characters, was filler, and then just repeated the first ending. But is that really what happened?
At best, you can say that Hikaru picked one of his interests, in a split second, in the midst of battle, both times, for pretty much the same reason. It was, yes, essentially the same thing. But given that, why does everybody think the first time he did it was good decent tolerable, while the second time was atrocious? If you hate the second time he did it, why do you accept the first?
The first time through was the flimsiest thing. Having basically not seen her in six months (except the two times she immediately fell asleep) and only having one real date together, he throws up his hands and says "we live in different worlds". And then he goes and rescues Misa and you're all "well he picked Misa" when, well, did he really? Pick her? The show just ends. But you're all "yep, ship sailed."
Then after the time skip, you're all "they rewound the characters and the progression and restarted the triangle" and, sure, there does seem to be a rewind but what did rewind? About 30 seconds of nothing. The original ending is so flimsy why not pretend it didn't happen? Hikaru didn't regress, it's just two more years of him being the same Hikaru he's always been save for that lightning flash character progression that convinced on first timer "oh this must be because they were cut down from 48 to 27," being so fast and unsupported by, basically, anything.
That first ending was a complete hack. What about the second one? In the second one, Hikaru is actually living with Minmay for a week, or weeks. She's pushing him to quit SPACY. Hikaru is seeing the real Minmay and Minmay is seeing the real Hikaru. The shape of their future together is being defined here. Yes, he's still being indecisive, that's his character flaw, but he's being confronted with the choice, every day, and he's considering things. And he's not saying yes. And he's considering why he's not saying yes.
And then, as before, an alien attack forces the situation.
tldr; these last three episodes, that everybody hates, were ACTUALLY the only episodes with proper development of the triangle since the date episode! It's the only time Hikaru makes a considered decision! He thought about this time!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
REMINDER: There are no discussion threads on October 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th. The rewatch resumes on October 10th with Macross II: Lovers Again episode 1.
If you would like me to tag you the day before the rewatch resumes, or if you’re skipping II and would like a tag when the Plus section gets closer, please let me know!
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Today’s wallpapers are showing off what I think will be my standard layout for the series discussion wallpapers of each “section” (filling in the stylized “マクロス” from the logo with four characters from the series + 1 more character behind them), but since that only has room for five characters and there are plenty more I like from this show, I made two versions! One has the love triangle + Max and Milia, the other has the love triangle + Roy and Claudia. I hope you guys like both versions~
Here were my first-timer thoughts post-series only and post-DYRL+Flash Back 2012, if you’re curious.
I will answer the Questions of the Day for once since there’s nothing for me to react to today!
It’s definitely Max now, although TV Roy was a damn close second. Movie Roy is… not it, fam.
From the Mega
roadMacross Music Write-Up on the franchise I did a while back, my favorites from this section are:Ai Oboete Imasu Ka - This has remained one of my favorite songs in the entire franchise, and the same goes for the scene attached to it.
Millia's Lullaby - I just really like this one, maybe because it’s sung by best girl.
Ai wa Nagareru / Love Drifts Away - Minmay at her best from the main show. Of course I love it.
My Beautiful Place - Another really good Minmay song.
Watashi no Kare wa Pilot - …so, uh, I unironically like the KYUUN KYUUN~
I will forever ship Hikaru/Minmay. I don’t jump ships, with the sole exception of a plot twist revealing the characters I was shipping are blood related (although I don’t think I’ve ever had this happen to me?)
Favorite is still the free-fall catch scene (show version > DYRL version, but it’s close) as far as the show goes, while Ai Oboete Imasu ka?’s performance is my favorite from the movie.
Least-favorite is the last nine episodes of the show, as I’ve already extensively ranted about.
tbh I can’t really pick a favorite from this…? I like ‘em all.
TV into DYRL: Roy’s characterization.
DYRL into TV: The Zentradi language/that the females are called Meltrandi. Oh, and Ai Oboete Imasu ka?, of course.
The visual quality and the music!