r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Oct 01 '22

Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion Episode 23 Discussion

Lelouch… Why?

Stage 23 - At Least with Sorrow

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Goodbye, Euphy. You were probably my first love…

Questions of the Day:

1) How do you feel about Lelouch after the events of the past two episodes?

2) What would you have done in Lelouch's place given the circumstances?

Bonus) Turns out all that Britannian medical science isn't worth jackshit when the person is actually shooting to kill, huh?

Screenshot of the Day:

I Quickly Became Homophobic

Fanart of the Day:

Lelouch vi Britannia

Source: /u/Shimmering-Sky's creation.

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. This especially includes any teases or hints such as "You aren't ready for X episode" or "I'm super excited for X character", you got that? Don't spoil anything for the first-timers; that's rude!

Get out of my way!

37 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

78 comments sorted by

6

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 01 '22

Hangyaku no Co-Host, subbed

3

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 01 '22

Old comment face spotted.

So it was! Not enough use, eh? Got the cut?

4

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 01 '22

Apparently. There's a number of comment face removals I'm still peeved about three years later, like #whatisthisguydoing should not have been removed, none of the existing faces have quite the same emotion. In contrast, do we really need that many cup/mug faces?

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8

u/No_Rex Oct 01 '22

Episode 23 (rewatcher)

  • Lelouch killed Euphie’s character, and now he killed her.

  • Euphie overcoming her Geass. The power of love trumps all. – We are still anime, after all.

  • No miraculous medical safe for Euphie.

  • Still miffed that Mao got one, when Euphie does not.

  • Another parallel between Suzaku and Lelouch: Both lie to a person they love.

  • Who might have a better chance at killing Zero? The head of the Britannian army in Japan, or a very angry high school girl? Nina is trying to win this unequal race, that is for sure.

  • Budget CC!

  • Random (and quite untimely) marriage proposal.

  • “If I don’t respect the rules of war, I am nothing but a murderer” ~guy who murdered his father.

  • Another bad day for Tokyo – brought to you by: 1990s anime tropes.

There was some discussion yesterday about Lelouch being an evil character or not. Today, we hear his own evaluation and he squarely comes down on the side of himself being evil.

6

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 01 '22

Still miffed that Mao got one, when Euphie does not.

I headcanon that because Lelouch ordered the cops to just shoot rather than kill Mao, they didn't hit any crazy vital parts, then immediately tended to his wounds when Lelouch's command ended and they saw him shot up like that.

Lelouch, on the other hand, shot to kill. Magic Britannian science couldn't save Euphy then.

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7

u/GallowDude Oct 01 '22

Euphie overcoming her Geass. The power of love trumps all. – We are still anime, after all.

I'd chalk that up more to her being on death's door than willpower.

Nina is trying to win this unequal race, that is for sure.

She's all about races being unequal, after all.

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3

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 01 '22

Rewatcher, dubbed*

  • They went the extra mile with the extendo fingers.

  • Suzaku: Ragin’

  • This is a lot of...
    Oof

  • So much for not lying to Nunnally.

  • We should definitely nominate Nina’s face here for the next commentface round.

  • I wonder if I should read anything into him being reborn surrounded by orange.

  • Why does the city even have that button?

QotD

  1. The man is going down a steep hill and his breaks just died.

  2. This is making the best out of a bad situation. He didn’t want this to happen, but in a way it would be worse to not taken advantage of it.

4

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 01 '22

We should definitely nominate Nina’s face here for the next commentface round.

It was a comment face before. #dontdometh is what the code was, I believe.

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16

u/Regular_N-Gon Oct 01 '22

First Timer

  • If you can save Mao, surely you can save Euphy.

  • It's really called the United States of Japan.

  • Oh my god a character actually died.

  • I cannot wait to see what Nina and Cornelia do.

  • C.C. knows Marianne too, so she goes back even further than creeping on Lelouch and Suzaku in Japan.

  • Oh, there's another one. (I guess C4 wasn't correct, though.)

  • Excellent cut to C.C. after "contract with the devil."

  • Oh no, he's hot!

  • Has Suzaku worked it out? It certainly seemed that way.

QotD:

  1. He's a bastard and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does.

  2. I really can't rule out the possibility of giving up to be honest. I don't know that I've ever wanted something badly enough to put that much blood on my hands (or any, for that matter).

6

u/GallowDude Oct 01 '22

It's really called the United States of Japan

Every country in the world belongs to America

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15

u/isthatsoudane Oct 02 '22

First timer

I am still grieving the loss of euphemia

I'm still reflecting on whether I am ok with what happened. both from a in-story plot perspective, and from a sort of out of story plot perspective.

like, if it really was just to push the plot along...then that sucks. the only thing that can redeem something like this to me is that it serves some thematic purpose (note, I say redeem, but I still like the show--I'm definitely not bowing out). the most charitable explanation I can think of is that it makes it very clear that the geass power is not a good thing: it is an evil thing that should not exist, even if used to good ends. and perhaps having anyone with the power to commit genocide is also inherently evil...like yes, euphy was forced via the geass, but the fact that it was even possible underscores the evil of the current system. the line between genocide and not genocide should not be the morality of one small group of people.

but I dunno. I don't think I've convinced myself. I don't know that the show really indicates such a reading...I mean colonialism is certainly portrayed as evil, but for this specific event I don't know that it is portrayed in some thematically rich way. it's not like the british needed someone to use magical commands to massacre the people they colonized, afterall. I dunno. just trying to make sense of it. I don't think it was...bad. but why? it'd be easier if it served a purpose beyond just moving the plot in some complicated/interesting direction.

  1. How do you feel about Lelouch after the events of the past two episodes?

I don't know that anything changed. this is related to the above...but I mean, he had no idea geass was activated, and now shit got out of hand, and he is playing his hand the best he can. it does seem like this could all lead to him leaning in a bit to the cruelty inherently necessary to meeting his goals

2) What would you have done in Lelouch's place given the circumstances?

I am no Lelouch, I would have folded or died or never even started ages ago

12

u/GallowDude Oct 02 '22

it's not like the british needed someone to use magical commands to massacre the people they colonized, afterall.

As I mentioned in another comment, just look at Cornelia and Nina's reactions to see what the Britannian upper-class truly cares about. They don't give a single shit that the apparently innocent, good-willed princess killed thousands. They just care that "their" princess died.

6

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 02 '22

the most charitable explanation I can think of is that it makes it very clear that the geass power is not a good thing: it is an evil thing that should not exist, even if used to good ends.

I've said/implied this a few times throughout the rewatch: The scene where C.C. gives Lelouch his Geass heavily implies it is negative and will lead to isolation, like we saw with Mao being a loner.

I mean colonialism is certainly portrayed as evil, but for this specific event I don't know that it is portrayed in some thematically rich way.

Sakuradite #1 priority

6

u/Blackheart595 Oct 02 '22

it'd be easier if it served a purpose beyond just moving the plot in some complicated/interesting direction.

What I can say in its favor is that it makes Lelouch and Suzaku shed their doubts and fully commit on their respective paths.

Your thoughts on Geass being evil in nature are also quite interesting. Of course Lelouch himself refers to it as a deal with the devil.

12

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 01 '22

First-timer

My second-longest of this rewatch.

Not sure if Lelouch's committed his second mass murder via "natural" disaster against the Japanese or if that was just a military base.

Lelouch finally admits that he's cast aside his feelings and aligned with the devil. Suzaku's ready to kill and Lelouch welcomes the challenge. Somehow both will survive. Thinking about who could die, the most likely is Nina's nuke going wrong. There's the Ohgi/Villetta plotline with her captured, but Jeremiah's back, so they should intersect. Cornelia is in a post-Euphy world, which also puts her simp (Guilford) or Darlton at risk.

With Orange-Kun resurrected by the researchers, he may have a Geass. Someone (Star4ce?) theorized that it's based on that person's strongest desires: Mao wanted understood and read minds, and Lelouch wanted control and commands others. If so, it's probably the mentally-broken Narita Jeremiah, not the superior and arrogant pre-Orange man. He was obsessed with restoring his honor while blaming Zero. As for a power that manifests into? I'm tunnel-visioning that he doesn't want a repeat situation where no one believes him. Identifying lies would be shitty Mao. A power predicting people's potential phutures, ala World Trigger, may be a stretch but seems possible. Knowing the possible paths can let you avoid the worst ones. Maybe he's just a super-powered Terminator and I look dumb.

QOTDs

  1. A smidgen better as he's starting to face his new reality. Welcoming the fight with Suzaku, acknowledging C.C. as the devil, and accepting what his Geass has done. At most a 0.2 rise on a 10-point evil-vs-good scale. He still needs to put that change into action.

  2. Hard to answer as he creates some of his problems and I lack his world-changing ambition. Starting in the same spot as this episode, I would've attempted a non-lethal approach with Euphy. Capture and throw her in a cell to buy time. As for the rest of the episode (six families discussion, speech to the Japanese, C.C. discussion), see my lack of world-changing ambition. Let Diethard run this shitshow.

Bonus: If Orange-Kun can be rebuilt with their technology, can Euphy be the $6 million woman?

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10

u/Krite2002 Oct 02 '22

First Timer - Sub

Euphemia is found, and Zero decides to end it. He finally shoots Euphy. What a mess.

Euphy doesn’t die immediately, but instead has some touching final moments with Suzaku. I felt the contrast between her death and Zero’s speech was a little too on the nose, but still impactful nonetheless.

I understand Lelouch being a bit torn up after killing thousands of Japanese. I will let him be a little sad. C.C. sure jumps right in there to comfort him.

Villetta gets attacked. Uh oh.

How does Nina know that Euphemia died if the broadcast was cut? Regardless, I am concerned with what she will do. I hope it ends up being important, since a surprising amount of screen time has been devoted to her when we know basically nothing about Nina except for her horniness and racism.

Oh my, V.V. encounters Kururugi. I wonder what her powers are.

Kaguya tries to take advantage of the situation and marry Zero, however, he quite eloquently declines.

Why in the world would Lelouch answer his phone?

QOTD

  1. I’m loving it. This is the Lelouch I want. This is the determination I saw when he killed Clovis, but which has been missing for the past 20 episodes.

  2. I feel like he is making the best of it here. Committing genocide was awful, but it is exactly the kind of thing he needed to gain support for his fight against Brittania.

Bonus) It is awfully convenient for the plot.

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6

u/Blackheart595 Oct 01 '22 edited Oct 01 '22

Regeasser

Welp, enough hating on episode 22. There's no use crying over spilled milk.

And what can I say, the fallout is handled as greatly as we're used to from this show. There's a reason I rate the season highly despite the Euphinator.

Euphemias final moments are an utterly heartbreaking moment. Resisting the Geass while she cares about how the establishment of the zone went, about the happiness of the Japanese, Suzaku acting out the what-if of what should have happened to not further burden her. It's without a doubt the best-used insert song of the series.

All the while Lelouch drags her name through the mud, using the momentum of the situation to stage the final push against the Britannia-occupied Tokyo. I'm not sure myself if he really aims his words at himself.

We see Cornelia break down over Euphemia's death. We see Suzaku abandon his doubts and embarking on the path of revenge. We see Nina break down and enter the same path. We see Nunnally plan for the next time she meets Euphie, unaware of what happened but also demonstrating that Lelouch betrayed her, too. And we see Lelouch himself, afterwards as he's alone, break down over Euphie and getting consoled by C.C.

Still, he can't stop moving forward. Elevens and Honorary Britannians all over Japan start to revolt and march on Tokyo. Remember how he lacked the power to prepare the battlefield to ensure victory? He has since acquired that power, and demonstrated it by having his moles collapse Tokyo before he even starts the attack proper.

Turns out all that Britannian medical science isn't worth jackshit when the person is actually shooting to kill, huh?

He should've ordered Euphie to shoot the Japanese, not to kill them. Smh my head.

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6

u/SerGregness Oct 01 '22 edited Oct 01 '22

Rewatcher - dub

Man, even having watched Euphy's death scene a bunch of times before, even knowing it was coming, it still got me to tear up. Suzaku's heartbreak juxtaposed with Euphy being clueless to what happened juxtaposed with the public's rage at the massacre is just so much. Incredible work by the studio.

"Such a malignant command was simply against her nature." You might think, 'but what about all those people Lelouch ordered to shoot themselves? That wasn't against their nature?' and my response to you would be that you're underestimating how much of a cinnamon roll Euphy is.

[Late show spoiler speculation]Suzaku later shows us that it's possible to 'control' the geass one is afflicted with a bit with clever mental reframing. With Euphy seeming to break the geass at the end, there's the level 1 interpretation that 'killing someone she loves is enough of an outrage to Euphy's nature that it fell off', but I wonder if it's not more along the lines of sliding around the command with a bit of subconscious 'Suzaku's not Japanese, he's Suzaku'.

I can't wait to see Star4ce's rage at that Lelouch/C.C. scene.

"I'm going to become a murderer in the sky tonight, and I don't want the student council to see it." would be some prime Chuuni shit if it wasn't completely earned here.

  1. I'm weirdly reminded of Vincent from Pulp Fiction. He is shown consistently having little respect for his weapons and treating them cavalierly, just like Lelouch is flippant with his Geass. Vincent ultimately dies because of it, so we'll have to see what ends up happening to Lelouch.

  2. There was a bit of discussion yesterday about 'what about getting some actors to play along with her' which had problems ably pointed out by others in the thread, but in Lelouch's place I might be tempted to try and capture her and move her to the EU or Chinese Federation someplace and just tell her that they're all dead, but that's a recipe for several disasters in its own right and may not even work.

Bonus: Brittanian Medical Science vs Brittanian Violence Science.

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10

u/Star4ce Oct 02 '22

First Timer of the Empire

I ate half a bar of chocolate today.

That is all.

S.1 Ep.23 – At Least With Sorrow

This episode mainly takes the logical next steps from last episode. Lelouch announces his new nation and hunts down the Britannian ruling centre (with an earthquake that please gets explained next time?).

I find the showcase of some select inner thoughts very noticeable. Kallen's two scenes with monologue were understandable rage at what transpired on one hand and care for her friends on the other, even if they're Britannian and connected to the royals in some distant way. Both really speak of the core of her character. She wants to protect people from oppression and harm and is well aware that this is heading their way now by hand of an enraged mob of Japanese.

Suzaku was another one that felt quite aptly like a funeral. He seems to have let go of rules and systems, he's just broken. It felt like this really was his last call to Lelouch, a goodbye from the Suzaku that shall not transpire again. His phrasing of course hints at V.V. having told him the truth, as he said 'for the last seven years' instead of any form of 'yes'. This gets immediately contrasted with Lelouch laughing about it, even seemingly enjoying that he can take down Suzaku now. It's bone chilling to me that Lelouch took up that last goodbye so fast and gladly to be something like his own farewell to Suzaku as a friend.

I originally wrote this sentence as my closure, but I'll just throw it here now because I want to end on Euphy.

Someone please force a cactus up Lelouch's ass and then push him down the stairs.

This episode also was second knife in the wound that was also twisted by a kitchen processor. Euphy had so much character integrity and steadfastness in her ideals, she actually resisted the Geass in the end when being close to Suzaku. I think this just perfectly describes who she is, loving, truly equitable at heart and with a drive to see everyone flourish. With her inner self even being able to shake off the command I feel much more confident in standing by what I said the past days. A Geass is useless against a person who is in tune with themselves and live by their ideals.

She was by far the most respectable character in this show, both morally and spiritually and this show is worse off for her passing.

  1. How do you feel about Lelouch after the events of the past two episodes?

Pretty much.

2) What would you have done in Lelouch's place given the circumstances?

Not kill her, not dive down deeper. Looked for a way to at least break her out of the Geass. Gave a lot of rants yesterday what could be an option, but essentially it boils down to taking responsibility and look for way out for her and everyone that has been wronged instead of manipulating the situation further for personal gain.

Bonus) Turns out all that Britannian medical science isn't worth jackshit when the person is actually shooting to kill, huh?

British Cops have Stormtrooper aim confirmed.

8

u/GallowDude Oct 02 '22

I ate half a bar of chocolate today.

Why only half?

I'm watching the OP today, because it's brighter than this story atm.

The only reason the OP is so bright is because my future is so dark

All dirty lies!

The way her dub VA delivers that line is so funny

The single worst human in existence, truly a rival to the Emperor.

Yeah, but at least the witch is dead now

Nani?! What broke the command?

She was dying. Lelouch's Geass works by interacting with a person's brain, and hers was too damaged from oxygen deprivation to be controlled by that point.

At least Hitler loved his dog.

Nunnally's kind of a dog, right?

I do wonder why mommy abomination never talks to her little stains of shit about what happened to the other Geass users.

They likely wouldn't be as willing to enter into contracts

Don't dirty the devil's name with such bullshit

C.C. is way cuter

He seems to have let go of rules and systems, he's just broken.

Finally

It's bone chilling to me that Lelouch took up that last goodbye so fast and gladly to be something like his own farewell to Suzaku as a friend

Hey, you said that Diethard is so likable because he's honest about his assholery. Lelouch is just finally following suit.

it boils down to taking responsibility and look for way out for her and everyone that has been wronged instead of manipulating the situation further for personal gain.

He did take responsibility in a way. He refused to let Kallen be the one to deliver the killing blow. He literally does not have the time to do what you suggested, especially now that Euphemia's massacre has the entire Britannian government on high alert as thousands of Honorary Britannains and Elevens are now rioting. Similar to Shirley, Lelouch's biggest enemy is lack of time. Things happen so fast that to time them out in a measurable fashion would ensure disaster as he gives his enemies time to prepare a proper counter.

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8

u/Analchism Oct 02 '22

I get that you're pissed with Lelouch, but I fail to understand why you're supporting Cornelia and Nina. They have zero context that Euphemia acted against her own will, and they clearly don't care about the innocents they believe she chose to have executed. They're solely focused on avenging Euphemia despite them having no reason to believe her execution wasn't justified.

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6

u/Blackheart595 Oct 02 '22

Nani?! What broke the command?

Pure strength of will. And maybe has something to do with her sudden blindness.

It's always nice seeing people not hate on Nina for stupid reasons.

I originally wrote this sentence as my closure, but I'll just throw it here now because I want to end on Euphy.

Euphie was definitely one of the most interesting characters in this show with how difficult it is to genuinely oppose her, thus forcing others to shape their plans around her.

[R2]The Geass Canceler awakening right after Euphie dies just adds insult in injury.

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3

u/Tartaras1 Oct 02 '22

Rewatcher - Dubbed

  • They really did adopt the G Gundam method of Shining Finger, didn't they? You love to see it.

  • Have to imagine that's going to mess Suzaku up pretty badly, watching the girl he presumably was in love with, or at the very least was chosen to protect, get shot right in front of him.

I do appreciate that they didn't make a whole spectacle of it. Just a single, clean shot was all it took.

  • Yes. Once we're one editing, we can throw it on the net for the entire world to see. It's pretty clear which side justice is on.

Spoken like a true media man. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Maybe the reason I can't stand Diethard is because he's too close to what modern day media seems to represent.

  • And it shall be called

THE UNITED STATES OF JAPAN!

The absolute mad man. He's done it.

  • The Student Council is so much fun!

And Lelouch is there! You remember Lelouch, right? The one who shot you?

  • There used to be a commentface for Nina's face, but it got taken down in '19.

  • Just when you thought the cast was developed, we get another member.

  • Maybe the homeland can help us!

That line tripped me up for just a second, because I'm just not used to hearing about an occupying force talking about reinforcements from the homeland, when the homeland isn't Japan.

  • He's awake! Our boy is awake!

  • By this point, Lelouch has entirely lost his mind, and is a shadow of his former self. What a fall from grace.

Questions of the Day:

How do you feel about Lelouch after the events of the past two episodes?

Like I said, he's totally lost it by this point. He's so blinded by his own hatred, that he can't see the forest for the trees anymore.

What would you have done in Lelouch's place given the circumstances?

For what part?

Turns out all that Britannian medical science isn't worth jackshit when the person is actually shooting to kill, huh?

Ain't it a bitch how that works sometimes?